Why doesn't anyone think it could've been John.

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Swirlz, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. proust20

    proust20 Member

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    UKGuy

    What I meant in my previous post is that when it comes to the days-of-the-week Bloomis, I didn't think that there were both a size 12 of them and another set for JB. PR was, of course, vague about the purchase of them, as she referred to how much JB liked them, which convinced PR to buy them. Then, PR switches over to these being her niece's gift. More ambiguity on purpose.

    However, as I am writing this, I may be changing my mind. After all, if JB had her own set of them, that could explain why she was redressed in the size 12s. Her own pair could have been tainted with some body fluids, etc. which necessitated the change. Picking the correct Wednesday pair in the wrong size could have been an ill-guided attempt at cover up, maybe by BR? That many of JB's panties were taken by LE indicates that they were of forensic interest.

    No size that would fit JB were found; but then, no size 12s were found in the house either. So that is the same outcome, even if there were sets in different sizes.

    I believe that it is likely that BR initiated the staging, which the Rs began to revise? This involvement of many hands seems to account for much of the confusion, that ultimately proved to be beneficial for the family. If BR did in fact say "What DID you find?", he could be inquiring as to how his parents rearranged things after his departure from the staging activity. He wouldn't know what his parents had been up to after he was sent to his room. BTW I am not confident about what is being said on the 911 call after the mistaken hang up by PR.
     
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  2. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    proust20,
    Yes, Patsy is attempting to avoid any reference to the size of the underwear. Patsy does not declare what size she purchased for JonBenet, she was hoping to avoid the issue by implying they were size-12!
     
  3. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    proust20,
    Parsing The Underwear Sizes
    Atlanta 2000 BPD Patsy Interview Excerpt
    So Patsy states:
    Patsy says unequivocally that she purchased the size-12 Bloomingdale's.

    Patsy can say yes here as the size is not specified only the brand.

    Bottom Line is Patsy purchased a set of Bloomingdale underwear for her niece, i.e. size-12, and a set of Bloomingdale underwear for JonBenet, i.e. size-6.

    Patsy cannot remember the sizes, but if she had purchased Bloomingdale underwear size-12 for JonBenet, then not only would JonBenet not need to request Jenny Davis' gift, but there should be two sets of Bloomingdale size-12 underwear in JonBenet's underwear drawer.

    So the intruder went into JonBenet's underwear drawer and removed only her size-12 underwear and proceeded to redress JonBenet in a pair of size-12 Bloomingdale's, then left the house with the remaining 15 pairs?

    Note: there are 15 pairs in both instances.

    So with no size-12's found in the house and if you assume there was no intruder, then 6 pairs of the underwear taken by BPD will be Bloomingdale's size-6, the rest can be any combination of size-6 or size-4 underwear in any brand.

    That is the remainder of the Bloomingdale's size-6 purchased by Patsy in New York were left in her underwear drawer.

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    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
  4. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    proust20,
    Some forensic details in this account:

    Fox 31 News, Nov 13, 2006
    Not only was Holly Smith removed from the case, but she had all the material relating to the Ramsey's redacted from her autobiography. What does that tell you?
     
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  5. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    proust20,
    Yes, I reckon you are on the right track here. Yet note how Burke does not ask Did you find JonBenet?

    He is acting dumb, e.g. uninformed, even casual like You find anything interesting? whilst the latter is not accurate, its safe to assume he knows JonBenet's disposition.

    So it might be Burke is thinking he has fooled his parents and subsequently that he has got away with it?

    What else might explain his casual attitude from here on in the case, even during the Dr. Phil interview where he describes JonBenet as flaunting herself at pageants, along with his trademark smirking.

    Obviously not much has changed?

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  6. proust20

    proust20 Member

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    UKGuy

    My question that still remains is WHY was JB left to be found wearing the size 12s. With all the staging that took place that night, it seems absurd that such an obvious error was overlooked, particularly so as the panties had to be pulled down, so that she could be wiped. There is the possibility that the size 12s were intentional?

    The entire crime seems so bound up with celebrating Christmas. PR and JB go to NY to shop for the Holidays. It is there that the size 12s are bought for PR's niece as a Christmas gift. Yet, if this is true, the size 12s were never sent to Jenny. PR said that this was because JB had opened the package with them. If this is not the case, why did PR not send them out? Then, somehow, JB winds up wearing the size 12s on Christmas. Are they meant to be a bizarre present for JB?
    Of course, there is the matter of the secret Santa. Also, the Santa bear. Plus, the Rs listed the man who dressed up as Santa to amuse JB as a suspect. Finally, JB's body is laid beneath the Christmas tree, which is something that one would expect in a work of fiction.

    When people discuss the case, most theories tend to accidental death followed with a cover up by the Rs. However, it ought not to be disregarded that the murder could have been premeditated, and planned to happen on Christmas? Although, it is most likely that JB died in the early hours of the morning of the 26th, her headstone gives the date of death as the 25th of December. IMO this is rather macabre. It's as if the Rs wanted her to have died on Christmas, which has a quasi-Victorian sentimentality to it, at the very least. There are elements which could be interpreted as ritualistic? In this vein, bringing JB to NY to buy the panties could have been the first step in this ritual? I know this is far out; but, I just want to point out that her accidental death is only theoretical. I was intrigued by a recent post here that suggested that JB's death was sacrificial in nature.
     
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  7. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    proust20,
    It was Christmas so it will be a factor real or imagined.

    If you accept neither parent dressed JonBenet in the size-12's, i.e. Patsy knows they are a red flag, and John neither knows nor cares about their existence, then this leaves Burke as the remaining candidate for dressing JonBenet in the size-12's which aligns with JonBenet also wearing Burke's long johns, again not something either parent would wish to dress JonBenet in for the purpose of staging.

    Patsy must be lying about the size-12's, anyone surprised? Gift for Jenny, whatever, they are unlikely to have been intended as part of a crime-scene staging.

    What Patsy and John say about the basement and the wine-cellar is mostly fabricated to match their imaginary version of events, so deciding what Patsy's intentions or plans might have been is a guessing game.

    The Secret Santa might have been another Christmas celebration intended for their vacation? It might be the reason they celebrated Christmas in Boulder, i.e. there might have been an ulterior motive in play?

    It's likely that John made the mistake of overlooking the size-12's, all needed to do was pull down Burke's long johns and the size-12's, clean JonBenet and pull them backup?

    John never noticed the obvious error whilst Patsy would have, so JonBenet was left wearing them?

    I'm assuming the parents were late to find JonBenet, probably long after she had been assaulted then staged in her bedroom, consider the blood stain on her pillow, or Burke's pajama bottoms found on her bedroom floor.

    This will be the reason she was moved along with a Samsonite suitcase of incriminating items down to the basement, then blamed on a fictional Intruder?

    The size-12's are intentional, just not for the purpose of staging a crime-scene, the motivation was something else.

    If they are intended as part of a staged crime-scene, then so presumably must be Burke's long johns, suggesting that he was to be the original prime suspect?

    If it had been premeditated by either parent then the crime-scene staging would be more sophisticated and whilst signs that it was staged might be discernible, it would not resemble the disorganized crime-scene left both in the bedroom, basement and breakfast bar, all the little details would have been taken care of, i.e. no ponytails!

    Well sacrificial rites incorporating a sexual element have long been known to exist in the middle east, so an interpretation along these lines could be made, although given the actual forensic evidence it appears tenuous.


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