Why doesn't anyone think it could've been John.

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Swirlz, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. SuperDave

    SuperDave Former Member

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    I look at it this way: there is good and there is evil, and evil must be punished. Even in the face of armageddon, I must not compromise in this.
     
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  2. IridescentDreams

    IridescentDreams New Member

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    I've only just started thoroughly digging, but where I'm at at the moment, I do think JDI and PR eventually helped stage.

    I think PR grieved heavily. JR is a narcissist through and though. Upon meeting Patsy his own reflection was he didn't find her attractive but admired her wit and humour. He tends to base his assessment of quite a few women on their attractiveness. If he initially didn't think PR attractive, why would her find her so after her body has been through hell and back, she's lost her hair and by the sounds likely has considerable scarring to her torso area from the operations she underwent as a result of her cancer.

    She cared about appearances. I know the inner turmoil I went through with severe stretchmarks after pregnancy, never mind being opened up, taken apart and put back together again, I doubt she opened herself up physically to JR for more criticism. She seemed like she had some histrionic traits, which includes passive aggression. Can we assume that JR the narc had PR not only doing what she could to please him, but also went out and spent willy nilly as her own form of passive punishment towards him?

    I think JR assaulted sexually abused JBR, initially maybe in the kitchen after giving her some pineapple. She tries to escape, he grabs her and she hits her head hard, or he hits her, maybe he throws the torch to stop her but throws it too hard, knocking her unconscious. JR panics, tries to wake her unsuccessfully. He's frantic, thinking what have I done, I have killed herHe wipes down the bowl and puts it back in the fridge, he takes her down to the basement and places her on the ground out the front of the WC. He's tries again to see if she responds to pain, he pokes her, nothing, he burns her face with a cigar, nothing. He's carefully going through his options, what injuries does she have, his marks are all over her, she has been molested, this cannot come back on him in under any circumstances, how can he remove himself from the equation? PR notices JR has left the bed, BR is disturbed by PR looking in to see if JR is with him. She sets BR up with some tea and the remaining pineapple telling him to stay put, she wanders around the house, she can't find JR or JBR, so heads down to the basement after seeing the lights on. She makes her way down the stairs, and screams. She throws herself on JBR, JR instructs her to go get JBR new clothes whilst he cleans her down. She bends to the will of this man. She brings the clothes and hands them over as he fixes the ligatures. She's out of her mind, probably running her hands up and down her arms trying to comfort herself. JR needs to keep her busy and her mind on the task, he gives her a brief rundown of what's going to happen and what to say in the RN. PR goes upstairs, sends BR to look for JBR's babrbie nightgown, she's wet herself again she tells him, then puts him back to bed then goes to find the materials, JR strangles JBR. PR wants to make sure she's cared for, wraps her in the blanket before they close the door but they don't have time to change her clothes again. Both need to take some time out before they call 911, JR isn't happy with the first RN and makes PR write a second, coaching her. They try to pull themselves together, JR tells PR to make the 911 call. BR still not asleep, hears the panic and makes his way down.

    At this time, that's my scenario. Not very well thought out and lacking detail, my theory is sure to change some the more materials I look at but I still think he did it.
     
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  3. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    If John and Patsy had been in the murder and staging together, Patsy would have taken a few minutes to remove her makeup, get in her pajamas, and punch her pillow a couple of times before making the 911 call.

    As it is, she had trouble explaining why she spent 20-30 minutes putting on her makeup without spending 5 minutes taking a shower. In DOI she says her shower was broken ("still broken"). I can believe that she wouldn't want to share John's bathroom--they seem to have cordially detested each other--but the floorplan shows three bathrooms on the second floor. Surely one of them had a shower.
     
  4. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    fr brown,
    Must she take a shower, if Patsy was staging what does a shower contribute? Patsy might have cordially detested JR, but enough to mess up a homicide staging?

    JR had a shower that morning, so he would be flushed of any forensic detritus.

    Patsy knew her forensic signature would be all over the wine-cellar crime-scene, so spending any valuable time on showering and changing might not change much.

    Its a point against PDI that Patsy would stage a crime-scene and liberally inject links to herself?

    .
     
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  5. IridescentDreams

    IridescentDreams New Member

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    Time constraints. We need to ask ourselves why it was Patsy who was put to in the forefront whilst JR cleaned himself up. Who's going to be the object of closer scrutiny, whoever found the note and made the 911 call or old mate who was in the shower?

    Why would JR need to be flushed or forensic evidence if he was only staging? Why wouldn't PR shower if she did any more than staging which can be argued away as circumstantial. "I live in the house, I was in there the morning before wrapping and moving Christmas presents, I may have been wearing the same jacket". Why the need to eliminate JR from the picture, minus those pesky fibres in JBRs crotch and not PR?


    Side note, why was PR thrust into the scrutiny but JR was always carefully distanced. There is little pointing to him in forensics but with LE focussing on PR he can then worry about covering her behind instead of his own, a lot less in the stakes department for him.
     
  6. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    IridescentDreams,
    You could debate it either way: Patsy is staging for herself, with JR assisting or Patsy is staging for JR and he is making sure nothing sticks by taking a shower and engaging legal representatives early on?

    .
     
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  7. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    Her alibi was that she had been asleep in bed all night. Surely part of her strategy would be to make it look like that had actually happened.

    The police concluded from her appearance that she had not gone to bed.
     
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  8. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    There weren't any time constraints if they were in it together. The 911 call could have been made at 5:57 rather than 5:52.
     
  9. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    fr brown,
    I agree, although does it represent a part of the staging, since as you suggest Patsy had the option to make appearances match her version of events, yet she declines.

    Whereas JR showers and has Patsy corroborate his version of events.

    .
     
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  10. IridescentDreams

    IridescentDreams New Member

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    She very well could be, but I don't see her being calm and collected enough to cover all basis, John I do. So it could also be a matter of PDI and staged most away then JR came in to make sure it was done to make sure nothing conclusive came back to them.

    Watch how he's constantly looking at her and in the manner he is, he doesn't trust her to not put her foot it in.

    I will again refer to the transcripts in which they bring up JBR has evidence of sexual assault. Neither JR or PR are affected that she has been molested but both immediately jump to it wasn't by JR's hand. Their daughter was supposedly kidnapped, then sodomised, tortured and murdered inside the home by "an intruder" wouldn't the more logical and emotionally fitting response be "who would do such a thing to my baby" or a Ramsey favourite line "this is a very sick person to do such a hideous thing" to my child? There is no emotion, no shock, no anger, no deep hurt, but a lot of "HE DIDNT DO IT" defence.

    They were supposed to be leaving the house to the airport for Charlevoix in around an hour, the house and neighbours would be getting up soon, I'm pretty sure they had Mike Archuletta (sp) to fly them who would be doing pre flight checks then if not soon. That trip was an important part of accounting for the early morning. Why risk BR getting up and finding the note? That brings him in to be questioned further than he was. Maybe they were even hoping to still go to Charlevoix, or back to Atlanta after she was found, or beforehand if they weren't given the opportunity to "search" and "find" her.
     
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  11. Cottonstar

    Cottonstar Well-Known Member

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    What DID you find?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  12. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me New Member

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    Patsy: I found a ransom note, Burke.


    Oh, btw, I don't think you emphasized the word did enough. It should be like this:

    What DID you find?
     
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  13. Cottonstar

    Cottonstar Well-Known Member

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    Exactly


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  14. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    IridescentDreams,
    There might be a sub-plot by Patsy whereby she highlights how it cannot be JR, she does this on numerous occasions, even adopting to emphasise JR's moral credentials by saying he did not want his daughter performing in Las Vegas.

    For the JonBenet literati this is on par with BR saying about JonBenet She would flaunt whatever onstage. She wasnÂ’t shy I guess.

    Its all part of the IDI Pedophile nexus.

    .
     
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  15. IridescentDreams

    IridescentDreams New Member

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    Sure, it could be that. I don't see the need to direct away from something that hasn't been mentioned in that light. As I said, the appropriate response to add to the IDI is proclaiming what a sick individual did this and how abhorrent it is for them to learn what was done to their precious daughter, not to inadvertently point the finger directly at JR.
     
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  16. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    Which Armageddon be that?
    Oh ...
    Revelation 16:14
     
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  17. SuperDave

    SuperDave Former Member

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    Whatever your idea of the world's ending is, that's it.
     
  18. Krunch

    Krunch New Member

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    John was a very rich man. if he did indeed do it. why would patsy cover it up for him? considering how rich he was. if he went to jail. she would've gotten all his money or at least gotten millions of dollars from the divorce.

    it doesn't make sense that a woman who's child is killed by a wealthy husband just doesn't leave him and take him for all his money. why cover it up? she gains alot more by outing him.

    the cover up only makes sense if the person who did it was their son.
     
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  19. chlban

    chlban Well-Known Member

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  20. chlban

    chlban Well-Known Member

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    Your question has been well addressed, I will just add what, for me, excludes John more than anything is the ransom note. Patsy wrote it, and It was the second biggest mistake they made (first being leaving the body in the home). The letter was completely absurd and I don't believe John would have written it or even allowed it to be left there if he was involved. In fact I believe the RN was what caused the lights to come on with John. He realized Patsy had written it and the picture started coming together then.
     

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