Why I Believe Patsy Is Guilty Of Cover-Up VS Murder!

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by SunnieRN, Oct 24, 2010.

  1. SunnieRN

    SunnieRN Active Member

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    I have been an RN for 19 years now. I have cared for many patients, in many situations, different settings, with many diagnosis.

    Cancer is a scary word, even a scarier diagnosis. Stage 4 cancer, is the worst diagnosis that is ever given.

    http://www.cancerandcareers.org/wom...r_diagnosis/?gclid=CMSRgr7Y66QCFcFk7AodPDVa1w

    Here is a little information.

    Cancer is not influenced by wealth, power or social standing. It strikes everyone. White, black, Hispanic, Jew, gentile. There are no known people who are not ever struck by cancer.

    I have worked with literally thousands of cancer patients. Pediatric to elderly patients. Usually, there will at first be fear and anger at the diagnosis stage. After this is worked through, if the patient lives long enough, it means treatment. Treatment is often harsh, but it brings hope.

    The next stage, if a person is lucky enough to go into remission, is a feeling of relief, a fear of reoccurrence and a new appreciation of life, loved ones and the gift of additional time.

    Patsy had been through stage 4 cancer. At the time of Jon Benet's death, she had made peace with many things in her life. Did she enjoy the fact that her daughter wet the bed, or messed her pants? No, there isn't a parent alive who would enjoy that. Would Patsy kill Jon Benet over that? I could never believe that.

    She spent time with her children. I am sure more so with Jon Benet, but I haven't ever read about Burke being abused by Patsy. Maybe he didn't get The lavish attention, the same as his sister, I'm sure he was jealous, but I don't feel he was abused. I've read that Patsy spent a lot of time on the second floor, playing with the children.

    To Patsy, I have a strong feeling she knew she was living on borrowed time. That makes life and those people in your life precious.

    This also means that if she lost her baby, her only girl, her beauty queen, spitfire, ball of energy, that she would be crushed, devastated and willing to do almost anything to 'save' the remaining people she loves. They are her legacy and will carry her forward in their memories.

    This may sound mushy and over dramatic, but after 19 years of patient care, family members and friends who have died of cancer, I have seen how it changes people, how it makes them value life.

    I apologize for the length of this post. Even after so many words I am not sure that I explained my feelings adequately. I just see Patsy, capable of doing anything as a mama she bear to defend the child she has left, help cover up a crime she is up to her eyeballs in, by writing the ransom letter, but I will never believe that she herself killed Jon Benet.
     
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  3. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    I agree, SunnieRN, to a point. That's because I don't believe Patsy intentionally hurt JonBenet. I say hurt because I believe she inflicted the head wound although it was intended for John. I also don't believe she intended to kill John, but she did want to hurt him really bad, just like he had just hurt her and JonBenet. I believe she thought she had killed JB by accident (even though she wasn't dead) and then they had to do the rest. Being an RN, I'm sure you have seen plenty of patients who were declared legally brain dead. You would know that by looking at them (especially if their eyes are open) that they are already gone even if they still have a faint heartbeat. This is what I believe Patsy saw that night and maybe she always believed that she is the one who killed her. I believe whoever did the strangulation is the murderer and I can't believe it was Patsy. To me John has always seemed cold blooded enough to have inflicted that wound. I'll stop now. Just wanted to let you know that I in no way believe that Patsy would have deliberatly hurt JonBenet.
     
  4. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    There is something that I've wondered about over the years. Wonder what would have happened if the weapon had hit the intented target? Would Patsy have called 911 and told them that she had just caught her husband molesting her little girl and hit him with a maglight (baseball bat, golfclub, whatever)? Just another question to add to the list that grows everyday.
     
  5. SunnieRN

    SunnieRN Active Member

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    Wow, now that is another theory that sound extremely possible! I still can't shake the feeling that it was Burke, who molested Jon Benet, however.

    I appreciate your thoughts!
     
  6. Ames

    Ames New Member

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    Neither do I....intentionally.
     
  7. Bobbarita

    Bobbarita New Member

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    I'm a retired RN with 15 years, 5 in the ER and the balance in various psychiatric settings. I think Patsy had more going on than cancer both before and after her diagnosis and treatment. As you point out, the diagnosis itself is devastating, impacting the patient as well as the family on many different levels.

    I believe Patsy was (undiagnosed) bi-polar and also suffered from histrionic personality disorder. These disorders along with her cancer diagnosis, created an incredibly stressful situation for her. A "bombshell" if you will. In interviews subsequent to the murder it was mentioned that she was taking Prozac. Additionally, when John and Patsy were "shopping" for someone to administer a polygraph, they ruled out individuals who insisted a drug screen be given prior to testing.

    In 1996-7 it was not known that the administration of SSRI's in patient's with bi-polar disorder could exacerbate mania. Prozac is an SSRI. To date, I have not found a source which can provide information on any other medications Patsy was taking prior to and after the murder so it is impossible to examine what interactions or side effects these medications may have had.

    Just as cancer is not influenced by wealth, power, or social standing, mental illness knows no boundaries. IMO the cancer diagnosis and treatment would have been more easily accepted by her and her friends and family than a comorbid psychiatric disorder.

    The behavior of a person affected by undiagnosed and untreated mental disorders can be shocking. Unfortunately, I think Patsy was one.
     
  8. claudicici

    claudicici Active Member

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    excellent post Bobbarita,to me PR intentionally( because of things going on in her head,maybe prior abuse against herself,her believe that death is victory etc) killing JB makes a lot more sense then the accidental death followed by staging.I can't imagine that at all...how could someone in their right mind stage the body of their child after unintentionally causing her death?
     
  9. Bobbarita

    Bobbarita New Member

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    Claudicici, IMO your consideration of "right mind" raises important considerations. If we allow for the possibility that Patsy was suffering from mental as well as physical issues which may have caused her to reach a "breaking point", it doesn't necessarily mean that she had totally lost the ability to reason. "Temporary insanity" has been used as a successful defense in more than one instance. And I believe "temporary insanity" to be real.

    IMO whatever the catalyst was---JonBenet's wetting the bed, JonBenet objecting to being cleaned up, JonBenet and a family member being discovered in a compromising position, or fill in any other possibility---it was the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back". Patsy acted out in an impulsive and frenzied moment. She was temporarily insane. When the moment was over she realized what she had done. Panic, regret and remorse set in. She was embarrassed and ashamed. What to do? The staging followed. At that point no one was thinking clearly. They did not perceive it as "staging", they were just trying to come up with a scenario into which a dead JonBenet fit. Just my opinion...
     
  10. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    Good morning, everyone! This thread is leading me to remember a thread that SuperDave started a few months ago and is very relevant here. If you haven't seen it, please take a look. It has some great information!

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97503"]JBR, PR and UMI - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


    It's all about the fact that Patsy may have had a Undiagnosed Mental Illness.
     
  11. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    I knew it wouldn't take long for that one to come up again. Thanks, beck. I was thinking about it just today.

    SunnieRN, I don't doubt what you say. But I've lived with it, too, since I was 10 years old. I know what it does to people. It makes you different.
     
  12. 8paws

    8paws Member

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    You said exactly how I feel. Having a background in nursing as well, I agree with you. I was just unable to put it into words as you have.
     
  13. CathyR

    CathyR New Member

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    Why not tell the truth?

    If it was accidental she still caught a sex offender in her own home. She can admit to what she did and it would be very understandable as an accident if she calls the police. She lost it when she saw what was going on and struck out and missed her target. I doubt anyone would convict and give her any time on manslaughter as her cancer, her other child and her cooperation in convicting a child molester. She stood a better chance at "getting away" with it and gaining public sympathy if she called the police if this was the case.

    By not calling it looks intentional.
    I don't think Patsy would have intended any ill will towards JB.
     
  14. CathyR

    CathyR New Member

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    I can see a different reason the R's would have staged but it is a big stretch.


    They don't know who killed JB but they did find her body earlier than said and staged or changed the basement scene.

    They suspect their son could have been the culprit but they aren't certain. They do wake him, they do make him aware of her death, they question him and cannot get answers that reassure them he is not the culprit. They threaten him with calling the police and having him locked away for life. He doesn't break or he is innocent.
    They see what evidence--pineapple on table, flashlight out on counter. Items they thought were put away. Items they suspect Burke of getting out as he knew of their existence.

    Something else convinces them he may not be the culprit , perhaps she was posed in a sexually suggestive manner and they don't deem him old enough to know what that means or do something that heinous.

    If they moved her body they did pose her the correct way on the floor as they found her, much harder to do than say to unpose the sexual suggestion and wrap her in the blanket. It would not be as easily detectable at autopsy as a movement in the body would.

    They really come down hard on Burke and decide we are going to have to call the police but before we do we are going to have a little insurance policy that will throw all suspicion away from him till we can get him counseled and see if he is really telling the truth.

    In this scenario Burke or IDI could be the culprit and the adult R's are guilty of obstruction, tampering with a crime scene etc.

    What do you think could have made the R's suspect Burke?

    During the investigation didn't his hidden ( he was grounded from it) pocket knife come up missing. Could JB have been holding it?
    The other items being out-the pineapple and the flashlight.
     
  15. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    I simply cannot imagine ANY parent(s) finding the murdered body of their little girl and deciding to stage her murder and manipulate her body when they don't know what happened but think their son MIGHT have done it?

    And how would they know where she was? After finding her they leave her in the basement and hide her in the WC. Keep in mind that her livor mortis pattern indicates she was NOT moved after death.
    So what you mean is Patsy wrote the note so no one would suspect her son, but she didn't really know if it was her son, and she and her husband decided to let him sleep anyway instead of waking him and asking him and....


    oh, never mind. Pointless to continue.

    Innocent parents would CALL POLICE after finding the body of their murdered little girl. Period.
     
  16. LinasK

    LinasK Verified insider- Mark Dribin case

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    That's exactly why I think John or Patsy or some combination of the two of them killed JB. They are both in it so deep that they have to cover for the other. My gut feeling based on my experiences, is that John killed her, but at the very minimum Patsy helped with the staging and the RN. I'm just surprised that John isn't throwing Patsy under the bus now that she's dead. It seems he's still managing to keep a tight leash on Burke, even though he's now an adult. Wonder if it's a financial hold, or through fear/guilt... Those ties can be very strong. My parents oftentimes tried to bribe me even when I was an adult, or guilt-trip me.
     
  17. Bobbarita

    Bobbarita New Member

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    Thanks for pointing out this great thread joeskidbeck. It is just what I was looking for!
     
  18. SunnieRN

    SunnieRN Active Member

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    I am not trying to be controversial, so if it comes across that way, I'm just letting you all know my opinions on mental illness and the propensity to commit violent crimes, such as murder.

    I have worked with mental health patients and there are people in my extended family with bipolar disease and schizophrenia. Their friends with the same disorders have also been involved in family functions and on family trips and reunions.

    People that have these disorders are no more likely to commit violent crimes than someone who is 'normal', if you can call anyone who would do something like that 'normal'.

    Now, if you factor in drug abuse or alcoholism the numbers of violence increase, but they do in average society members also. Please, don't just take my word for it, look things up. There are exceptions to every rule. One study:

    Bipolar disorder 'not to blame for violent behaviour'
    People with a severe mental illness are no more likely to be violent than anyone else - unless they abuse drugs or alcohol, a study has suggested.

    The relationship between bipolar disorder and violence largely came down to substance abuse, researchers said..
    The study compared the behaviour of people with the disorder with their siblings and the wider population.
    One of the authors said it was probably more dangerous to walk past a pub at night than a mental health hospital.

    The study, led by Oxford University's Department of Psychiatry, examined the lives and behaviour of 3,700 people in Sweden who had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, commonly known as manic depression.
    Continue reading the main story

    The disorder leads to sudden and unpredictable mood swings which are more severe than the normal ups and downs of life.
    The team, led by consultant forensic psychiatrist Dr Seena Fazel, wanted to examine the public perception that there is a link between the disorder and violent crime.

    They did this by comparing the experiences of the patients with some 4,000 siblings of people with bipolar disorder - and a further group of 37,000 people selected from the general population.
    The research, published in the Archives of General Psychiatry, found that the rates of violent crime among people who were mentally ill and abused substances were no different to those among the general population who abused substances.

    In each group, the rate of violent crime was between six and seven times higher than in the general population.

    "Most of the relationship between violent crime and serious mental illness can be explained by alcohol and substance abuse," said Dr Fazel.
    "That tends to be the thing that mediates the link between violence and the illness."

    He said that if the substance abuse was taken away, the illness itself had a "minimal" or non-existent role in violence.
    Dr Fazel said: "It's probably more dangerous walking outside a pub on a late night than walking outside a hospital where patients have been released"

    The study said that people with bipolar disorder were 10 times more likely to abuse drugs or alcohol than those in the overall population because they tended to turn to substances to counter the effects of their medication or to get other relief from their symptoms.

    A previous paper on schizophrenia, written by several of the same researchers, came to similar findings.
    The findings of both studies support the view of mental health charities who argue that the stigma attached to illnesses is not justified by medical evidence.

    In 2009 the BBC joined forces with mental health charities for a story line in which one of the characters in the Eastenders soap came to terms with bipolar disorder.
    Paul Farmer, chief executive of the mental health charity Mind, said the research would reassure people with severe illnesses such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.

    "The link between mental illness and violence is often grossly exaggerated when in fact people with mental health problems are far more likely to be the victims of crime than the perpetrators

    "This kind of stigma damages lives," he said.


    One more that talks about bi-polat 2, rapid cycling, which even this one states that they will most likely have a greater risk of suicide, but can be violent:

    Bipolar 2 Rapid Cycling
    What Is Meant By Bipolar 2 Rapid Cycling And Why The Person Diagnosed Is Of Greater Risk To Himself And Others.

    It is important to remember that not all patients diagnosed with bipolar depression get rapid cycling experiences. But, what is meant by bipolar 2 rapid cycling and why the person diagnosed is of greater risk to himself and others is something that should be carefully considered in treatment. The facts are that people diagnosed with bipolar depression are more violent against themselves and others. Their mood swings run the range of highs and lows and back again usually without even showing any signs of mental or of physical exhaustion. That is what is meant by bipolar 2 rapid cycling and why the person diagnosed is of greater risk to himself and others. Rapid cycling is a clinical term describing bipolar depressed people who show at least four or possibly more bipolar episodes in a year.

    These episodes switch from mania to depression and are usually followed by a few weeks of normal mood. What is significant with a bipolar 2 rapid cycling is that the mood swings go from manic to depressed with no normal mood swings in between the episodes. The mood swings of what is meant by bipolar 2 rapid cycling and why the person diagnosed is of greater risk to himself and others make them harder to treat with antidepressants. What is meant by bipolar 2 rapid cycling and why the person diagnosed is of greater risk to himself and others is their greatest risk for committing suicide. What is meant by bipolar 2 rapid cycling and why the person diagnosed is of greater risk to himself and others is that these patients commit violent acts against others.

    Many of these patients go from feeling fine to feeling depressed within a couple of hours. The rapid cycling or mood swings take control of the person and what is meant by bipolar 2 rapid cycling and why the person diagnosed of of greater risk to himself and others is the difficulty in managing such a patient with drugs or therapy. A bipolar 2 who is experiencing rapid cycling and is not treated and lives will usually see his rapid cycling diminish in 5 years time. What is meant by bipolar 2 rapid cycling and why the person diagnosed is of greater risk to himself and others is that these patients are capable of committing violent acts against themselves or against others while under the severe mood swings with no normal mood remission.


    There is a LOT of stigma against mental illness. This post is IMO only, not meant to incite or inflame.
     
  19. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    Hey Sunnie! First off let me say that I need to study your post a little better in the morning when I can keep my eyes open! I'm just a little bit tired tonight as you already know.
    I see your point, but I'm wondering about the effects of some cancer drugs and chemotherapy on patients with stage four cancer. Patsy may or may not have been bi-polar and we will probably never know for sure, but there was so much going on with her both physically and mentally that I have to wonder if something in her may have just snapped that night. You know that I don't believe Patsy intentionally hurt JonBenet but we have all, at one time or another, hurt someone we love without meaning to. Surely not to this degree, but you know what I mean. Anyway I am going to study your post further in the morning and I'm sure I will have a different viewpoint then. I do appreciate your interest and your willingness to delve deeper into Patsy's psyche in order to see her for the person she really was and not the media figure that we've all seen over the years. Keep up the good work!
     
  20. SunnieRN

    SunnieRN Active Member

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    Thank you JoeskidBeck, I don't think I will understand anyone who can be involved in their childs murder or cover up of the crime. Tome that is beyond sick! This is the reason I believe all three were involved. Solidarity at its worst! I really enjoy your point of view, as it makes me think, as do the other posts on this forum.
     

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