Why the DNA may NOT be important

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Nedthan Johns, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. Nedthan Johns

    Nedthan Johns New Member

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    Today we see another case in which FOREIGN DNA found on a victim is insignificant to prosecuting and convicting a murderer.

    Chandra Levy case:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_chandra_levy
    Defense attorneys said Morales' testimony couldn't be trusted. They also pointed to DNA from an unknown male that was found on Levy's black running tights. The DNA matched neither Guandique nor Condit, and the defense said it was powerful evidence that the wrong person was on trial. Prosecutors argued the DNA was the result of contamination during the testing process.

    It's too bad that Patsy Ramsey is not alive today to face the same consequences. Unfortunately Boulder had an inept police force and a whacked DAs office headed by Alex Hunter who did everything he could to protect this rich Boulder family. Had this happened in any other state, you could have bet Patsy Ramsey would have died in prision and John would still be serving a long sentence for the cover-up of this crime.

    In the Levy case, all they had was a convicts testomony that Guandique told him he commited the crime and other similar crimes in which Guandique robbed women in that park, but oddly enough never killed the others. I am not saying he didn't do it, just pointing out how little they had to convict him.

    Compare that to the ransom note which single handedly (no pun intended) points directly to Patsy, along with HER sweater fibers being found intertwined in the knot of the garrote. JB favorite PJ's beside her and being wrapped in her blanket. Prior sexual abuse, pineapple bowl with Patsy's fingerprints, all lead back to Patsy. Seems like a mountain of evidence compared to the Levy case.

    Just thought I would leave everyone more food for thought. And a note to John Ramsey---It's not over yet. One day someone with some balls and smarts will take over the DAs office and this case will see the light of day.
     
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  3. ChuckMaureen

    ChuckMaureen Well-Known Member

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    I expect the court / jury would want to see a match to whomever the prosecution believes (accidently) contaminated the evidence.

    Even if the DNA does not match Guandique nor Condit it is not fully excultapory unless conviction is based solely on that DNA.

    It allows for a reasonable doubt.
     
  4. Nedthan Johns

    Nedthan Johns New Member

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    Remember the DNA found in the Ramsey case is contaminated and does not provide full markers. Dr. Henry Lee already stated the DNA could have ended up their via secondary transfer. Therefore like the Levy case, the DNA most likely is not related to the actual murder. The DAs office ignored the rest of the evidence in this case. IMO the most important piece of evidence is the ransom note that directly links to the killer in this case.
     
  5. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

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    :clap: :clap: Bravo, Ned. Absolutely. If this had happened ANYWHERE else, the Rs would be weeping bitter tears this very day.

    Like I've said before, Ned: plenty of people have gone away with a lot less.
     
  6. ChuckMaureen

    ChuckMaureen Well-Known Member

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    bubm

    I believe that excludes the Rs.
     
  7. ChuckMaureen

    ChuckMaureen Well-Known Member

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    Another, experienced opinion ...

    bubm

     
  8. SunnieRN

    SunnieRN Active Member

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    Thank you for your voice of reason!!! Fantastic post!
     
  9. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    ChuckMaureen
    Would that be semen dna? Or is it something less significant?

    touch-dna is ambiguous it does not distinguish between the innocent or guilty. Just because you left your fingerprint upon some rest-room door-handle does not implicate you in any crime subsequent to your visit.

    Until the touch-dna is matched it has no meaning, except for the Ramsey apologists who need an intruder, since there was no forensic evidence left at the crime-scene which matches or links to anyone at all. Only that of the Ramsey's themselves, is that not curious, even interesting?


    .
     
  10. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Nedthan Johns,
    Nice, well put. :dance:
     
  11. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    No semen was found in JB's underwear or anywhere else on her.

    Semen belonging to JAR was found on the comforter that was in the suitcase in the basement, along with a children's book.
     
  12. Ottavi

    Ottavi New Member

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    It does seem odd that an intruder who left absolutely no sign of being in the house was stupid enough to leave DNA evidence on her clothing.
     
  13. Nedthan Johns

    Nedthan Johns New Member

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    First of all your source is from the Daily Camera (horrible little newspaper)which states: "a self-proclaimed" neutral observer and expert on DNA analysis said.

    A self-proclaimed expert, boy that's laughable. Dr. Henry Lee one of the leading experts on this subject has already proclaimed this was NOT a DNA case.

    Again lack of intelligence and balls by the Boulder DAs office in pursuing the evidence in this case.
     
  14. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    DeeDee249,

    Shock , horror!
    You cannot be seereeous ... so just what does this biological evidence amount to?

    Answers on a postcard 101 IDI Avenue, Crimesville.


    .
     
  15. Nedthan Johns

    Nedthan Johns New Member

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    Wow if we used the same theory that the Boulder DAs office is using in the Ramsey case with Chandra Levy’s case, Chandra’s killer would still be free and Washington DC would be waiting on CODIS to match the contaminated blood found on Chandra’s body. Just think the only reason her killer was convicted was from the testimony of another convict. In the Ramsey case there are 5 pieces of evidence that cannot be ignored.
    1.) The Ransom note that matches Patsy’s writing
    2.) The pineapple found in victims stomach matching that found in the bowl with Patsy’s prints
    3.) The skull fracture consistent with blunt force trauma (detective Smit himself said it matched that of the flash light found at the scene), which oddly enough matched the Ramsey’s which they could not find
    4.) Patsy’s Ramsey’s sweater fibers tangled in the knot of the garrote.
    5.) Lack of ANY fingerprints on the ransom note yet the Ramsey’s admitted handling the note several times

    Here is the simple plain facts in this case. The Ramsey’s wealth, along with the Boulder Police Departments lack of experience combined with the DA’s office headed by pompous Alex Hunter who pampered and protected the Ramsey’s helped the Ramsey’s steer clear of any charges. This case will NEVER go to trial now because the killer is already dead. This case would drain Boulder financially and frankly the IQ in that town still hovers around that of the Hare Krishna’s, hippies, and college binge drinkers who reside there (those from Colorado will get what I mean).

    Perhaps it was with some hope that re-interviewing Burke Ramsey would spark some guilt in the boy for what he knows. Nine years old at the time of the crime, the kid certainly would have remembered if his sister was awake or not when they arrived home. In his original interview he stated she was. Later the story changed. He would also know about the pineapple and if that was his voice on the 911 call. I heard the original call, and I heard a boy’s voice. He asked, “What did you find”. Again, Boulder is too polite with this family. They should have drug this kid in who is now what 22? Since this is still an active and open case and given him a lie detector test. Refusal once again, would at least put pressure back on the only 2 people left in this world that know what happened to JonBenet Ramsey.

    They will have to live with that for the rest of their lives. I can’t imagine they live peacefully with this knowledge. They will continue to protect Patsy Ramsey who I believe suffered from a mental illness and killed her child in a fit of rage. I can’t imagine that John or Burke Ramsey garners any amount of real respect in this world, and the disdain for their kind is not forgotten in the people who have shown remorse and love for JonBenet Ramsey, the public.
     
  16. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    Nedthan, this was very well said and contains all the knowledge one needs to make an informed opinion on this case. I believe Patsy's family went along with the charade because they knew the cancer was going to take her life and they did not want her to die in prison. There are still a couple of aunts alive that should be ashamed of themselves. We here at WS have shown more love for that little girl than her own aunts. Lord, help me to never believe that my needs/wants are more important than finding the killer of a child. No, I would not want someone I love to go to prison, especially if the event happened because of an accident, but I was taught to be truthful in all things. Had they been truthful, especially in Boulder, the outcome would not have been as horrible as they (or even we) imagine. I don't think Patsy would have died in prison and at least John and Burke could hold their heads up. But the Ramseys believed they were too good for justice, JonBenet was just collateral damage.
     
  17. SunnieRN

    SunnieRN Active Member

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    :woohoo::dance: Fantastic!! I do believe however, that Patsy was mentally ill from the cancer and treatments she had endured and that she did not kill JB herself, but covered for the fact that Burke did. I believe that a lot of the reason for covering up the crime was guilt, due to lavishing all of her attention on JonBenet, following her cancer remission.

    I also do not believe that John would have covered for Patsy. Despite the fact that she had survived cancer, she was in remission at the time. He had no way of knowing her cancer would return. He had already lost Beth, which devastated him. I don't believe he would have covered for Patsy if she killed Jon Benet. I could easily see him covering for Burke however.
     
  18. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    I can also see both parents covering for their son(s). I can't see BR doing any of the staging himself or having any part in it, actually. I CAN see the parents having some help in that regard- a friend (even a friend of JAR, who I believe WAS there Christmas day and night).
    I don't think Patsy was mentally ill per se, though I would concede some type of personality disorder. If she was Bi-Polar, I would think the episodes would have been very obvious to her husband and family and they would have intervened. I do think her treatments had a negative effect on her already Type A personality. Patsy was said to have a bad temper and some people witnessed some of these episodes. I think she had problems controlling herself when stressed. Patsy did have a lot of stress, much of it self-imposed pageant related stress. Add that to the typical stress of 2 highly scheduled kids (dance, coach, photo shoots, fittings, pageants for JB and whatever activities BR was involved in) and maintaining her home and lifestyle and "persona" and a woman with her personality would have a lot of stress- she wasn't a laid back person.
     
  19. Nedthan Johns

    Nedthan Johns New Member

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    DeeDee,
    You stated: I CAN see the parents having some help in that regard- a friend (even a friend of JAR, who I believe WAS there Christmas day and night).

    Absoultely NO evidence of any friend being over that evening, in fact the Barnes (can't remember the family they stopped and dropped a gift off at) stated the family was tired and headed home around 9:30. If they were leaving early the next morning to catch their private plane, and Patsy admitted she had more gifts to wrap, why would they have a friends stop by?

    You also stated: I don't think Patsy was mentally ill per se, though I would concede some type of personality disorder. If she was Bi-Polar, I would think the episodes would have been very obvious to her husband and family and they would have intervened.

    Having a personality disorder is a mental illness. Patsy may fit the Boarderline Personality Disorder. She may also have been Bi-polar and she was on a medication (forgot the name) that is taken for bi-polar. I think John may have been full aware of her disorder.
     
  20. Nedthan Johns

    Nedthan Johns New Member

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    Sunnie,
    I have always had a hard time with the Burke did it theory for many reasons. One the neighbors saw no lights on in the house, which meant one parent was staging a crime. I don't believe John came into the staging until that morning prior to the 911 call. There would have been NO reason for Burke to ask "What did you find" on the 911 call. Also Burke was questioned and the parents let him out of their site to stay with the neighbor. They would have never of done that if he was invovled in any way. John is not that stupid.
     
  21. Nedthan Johns

    Nedthan Johns New Member

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    Joe,
    Patsy was actually in remission and was expected to make a full recovery at the time of JB's murder. I agree with your thoughts however on the family cover up including that of her aunt and grandmother, all those that chose to protect Patsy. I honestly think John Ramsey was asleep when the crime occurred. A tired, impatient Patsy wrapping presents perhaps was awakened by JonBenet, who had once again wet the bed. This sent Patsy into a rage and JB was struck. Either thinking she was dead or perhaps seeing her convulse Patsy knew she had gone too far. (there has been much controversy on what came first the head blow or garrote and if JB would have been convulsing due to the blow. Either way Patsy panicked and most certainly constructed the ransom note. Her plan was spoiled when John Ramsey awoke to find a hysterical Patsy, by that time Burke came out of his room, the 911 call was placed and things happened so quickly John didn't have a chance to put all the pieces together. Although he did that as time went on, having found JB prior to opening that wine seller door which was confirmed by Mr. White. I believe John moved the body and helped further stage the crime and then made the call to his pilot to get them out of town ASAP. What parent leaves their home when their child is murdered? Sure go stay in a hotel, go stay with a friend, but hop a plane clear across the country?

    There are still a couple of aunts alive that should be ashamed of themselves. We here at WS have shown more love for that little girl than her own aunts. Lord, help me to never believe that my needs/wants are more important than finding the killer of a child. No, I would not want someone I love to go to prison, especially if the event happened because of an accident, but I was taught to be truthful in all things. Had they been truthful, especially in Boulder, the outcome would not have been as horrible as they (or even we) imagine. I don't think Patsy would have died in prison and at least John and Burke could hold their heads up. But the Ramseys believed they were too good for justice, JonBenet was just collateral damage.
     

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