Why? What was the motive?

[Jeana (DP)]

Proximate cause means the primary cause of the crime, whatever it is. I think what you are talking about is usually held in civil cases. Example: a man is mowing his lawn on a riding lawnmover. He hits a rock that spins out into the street, goes thru a passing motorist's windshield. The motorist swerves by reflex and loses control of his car, plowing thru a neighbor's prized rose garden and plowing into his house. The neighbor sues both the motorist and the man on the mower. Who is the proximate cause of the accident?

Jeana, I hope you are reading about now. We need your input. LOL!

I don't see how this could apply to a murder case. Do you, Jeana?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but there is NOTHING that Darin can say now that will help Darlie. He could confess to actually doing it himself, but all of the damage has been done. Too much time has gone by.

 

[Goody]

Well, I deleted my 1st message, but basically I read about proximate cause in a book about the Ramsey case. Not comparing cases here or anything, just letting you know where I stumbled across it. The author's theory(his theory, not mine) is that if, for instance, a father had been molesting his child and the mother caught them and killed the child in a blind rage, then the proximate cause could be used as a defense. Again, author's thoughts, not mine. The author was saying that something like that could have caused a parent to go into such a rage as to commit a crime. So that's all I know about it. I then mentioned that if this is what proximate cause means, that perhaps Darlie's defense could use it if she ever confessed. She could blame Darin and say he threatened to leave her and take the boys..blah blah blah.. I never got my question answered though.

I guess I am on my own here. First of all, Bees, it sounds like the author is not an attorney or he would know that they could not use proximate cause in that way. God help us if they ever start.

In the Ramsey case, assuming Mom did kill daughter, it would be a stretch to try to use proximate cause to free Mom, although blaming Dad in the way you described is reasonable for some culpability, I would think. In Darlie's case, there was nothing Darin could have done that was so devastating that would have sent Darlie into an uncontrollable rage that ended in the death of her children, esp since she didn't come forward at the time. Once she took steps to hide the act, premeditation comes into it. I don't think any premeditated act could be used in a proximate cause case. But I am not a lawyer and lawyers do sometimes get a little nuts. They still have to work within the law though, and I can't see them getting a defense like this past a judge.

So I think the author was really just grasping at straws, maybe flexing his intelligence muscles alittle. Regular common sense does not always work well in trying to interpret laws and how they can be used. Not every defense is allowed in a trial just because someone can think it up. Judges allow a lot of flexibility but they aren't going to let someone twist a law beyond recognition. So in my infinite slightly educated in legal matters wisdom, I think it is a big fat "no."

Plus, Darlie has already been convicted. Unless she can come up with something that requires a new trial, nothing about her conviction can be changed, short of a full governor's pardon and I am not sure they have such a thing in Texas. Well, I guess she could get a presidential pardon, but fat chance of that unless she lives long enough to see a democrat in office and that is probably still one of the longest of all long shots., even for a more liberal president The nature of her crime doesn't warm anyone up to her.

 

[beesy]

I guess I am on my own here. First of all, Bees, it sounds like the author is not an attorney or he would know that they could not use proximate cause in that way. God help us if they ever start.

No, he's a shrink! LOL..the book is very odd. He interprets the kidnaper's letter, on the pretext that Patsy killed JonBenet. He claims that in each word, Patsy is confessing. He rambles on about why "bussiness" was misspelled. His theory is that "buss" is feminine because of the "bustle" worn on dresses. There are many other things too, just as weird.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

[/color]

No, he's a shrink! LOL..the book is very odd. He interprets the kidnaper's letter, on the pretext that Patsy killed JonBenet. He claims that in each word, Patsy is confessing. He rambles on about why "bussiness" was misspelled. His theory is that "buss" is feminine because of the "bustle" worn on dresses. There are many other things too, just as weird.

Didn't dresses stop having "bustles" back in the 1800s? :waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec:

 

[beesy]

Didn't dresses stop having "bustles" back in the 1800s? :waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec:

Turn of the 20th century, but the author found some photos of Patsy and JonBenet in fancy dresses with bustles from pagents. He says throughout the whole kidnap letter Patsy is dropping hints without realizing it about the whole thing. For instance "business" refers to John, but by misspelling it she turns it feminine, making it her's and JonBenet's, taking away his power. Crazy
The book is called Mother Gone Bad Seems to me he should have called "Father Gone Bad" since he claims Daddy started things.

 

[Goody]

Turn of the 20th century, but the author found some photos of Patsy and JonBenet in fancy dresses with bustles from pagents. He says throughout the whole kidnap letter Patsy is dropping hints without realizing it about the whole thing. For instance "business" refers to John, but by misspelling it she turns it feminine, making it her's and JonBenet's, taking away his power. Crazy
The book is called Mother Gone Bad Seems to me he should have called "Father Gone Bad" since he claims Daddy started things.

Sorry but that book sounds like it has zero credibility to me. I am all for psychoanalysis but it sounds like this guy sees some telltale sign in every syllable. That sounds like horse feces to me. Besides, there is absolutely zero evidence that John Ramsey ever molested his daughter.

 

[beesy]

Sorry but that book sounds like it has zero credibility to me. I am all for psychoanalysis but it sounds like this guy sees some telltale sign in every syllable. That sounds like horse feces to me. Besides, there is absolutely zero evidence that John Ramsey ever molested his daughter.

It's very similar to Chris' book. Basically the author highlights parts of the letter and then decodes them. :loser:

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Turn of the 20th century, but the author found some photos of Patsy and JonBenet in fancy dresses with bustles from pagents. He says throughout the whole kidnap letter Patsy is dropping hints without realizing it about the whole thing. For instance "business" refers to John, but by misspelling it she turns it feminine, making it her's and JonBenet's, taking away his power. Crazy
The book is called Mother Gone Bad Seems to me he should have called "Father Gone Bad" since he claims Daddy started things.

The author is an idiot. Just my opinion.

 

[HeartofTexas]

Even more of an idiot when you consider that "bustle" only has one "s", just like business has just one "s", but we're supposed to think that the reason there's two "s's" in the ransom note is because of bustle????

 

[Goody]

Even more of an idiot when you consider that "bustle" only has one "s", just like business has just one "s", but we're supposed to think that the reason there's two "s's" in the ransom note is because of bustle????

Well, wouldn't it be easy if we could dicipher our personalities and emotional states by some code like he describes. We wouldn't need psychiatrists anymore. Computers could do the job for them. We'd just submit a writing for analyzation and be told who we really are and why we do the things we do. Probably even what pill we should to take to fix it.

 

[HeartofTexas]

But but but... what if we spelled all the words correctly?? What would he say then... that we're anal retentive?

 

[beesy]

But but but... what if we spelled all the words correctly?? What would he say then... that we're anal retentive?

Actually, he did mention that Patsy is usually a perfect speller. He uses this as more proof that the misspellings were a subconscious way to admit her guilt.(giggle). Of course, LE believes the misspellings, if the letter was written by Patsy or John, was to make the person look uneducated. If the Ramseys wrote the writer, that's more likely the reason than a subconscious confession. :bang: If somebody else wrote the letter, they probably just misspelled "business" Hee hee, I had to look up subconscious so I wouldn't misspell it! Wonder if that means anything.

 

[Goody]

But but but... what if we spelled all the words correctly?? What would he say then... that we're anal retentive?

God only knows. I wouldn't put much faith in any of it.

 

[Goody]

Hee hee, I had to look up subconscious so I wouldn't misspell it! Wonder if that means anything.

I don't know. Maybe you SUB-conscious is WAY out to lunch. I know! I know! You are secretly yearning for a SUBWAY. That's it!! Who needs this guy. We can do it ourselves! :laugh: Now let's see what is in that fear of yours about MISSPELLing.

 

[CyberLaw]

Just to weigh in: Promixate cause has to do with civil liability and injury, it HAS nothing to do with criminal acts.

Nothing..........

 

[Goody]

Just to weigh in: Promixate cause has to do with civil liability and injury, it HAS nothing to do with criminal acts.

Nothing..........

Thanks, Cyber. I thought I was recalling that correctly from my law classes but was not 100% sure. My example was a civil case. What I didn't know for sure was if a defense lawyer could manipulate the theory a litte in an effort to get it into a criminal trial. A jduge would nip that in the bud, wouldn't he?

 

[beesy]

I don't know. Maybe you SUB-conscious is WAY out to lunch. I know! I know! You are secretly yearning for a SUBWAY. That's it!! Who needs this guy. We can do it ourselves! :laugh: Now let's see what is in that fear of yours about MISSPELLing.

always the funny girl. Did I misspell misspell? :blushing:
Subway,

 

[Goody]

always the funny girl. Did I misspell misspell? :blushing:
Subway, http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_3_2.gif

Do I look like a spell check? LOL! I haven't the foggiest. I spelled mine like yours. hahahahahahah!

 

[sue1017]

I just finished reading the book 'Flesh and Blood' by Patricia Springer. Got it from the local library. After reading all the books and looking at the pictures of CWB book. This maybe has been done to death between here and CTV. If so forgive my ignorance but I am gonna thro it out anyway.

In the books they all state how Darlie was suicidal on May 3rd of that same year she murdered her children. Then 2 days later she got her monthly cycle. Well my question today is suppose she was just plain ole PMSing on June 6th? It's close to the last monthly within a few days and maybe her cycles weren't regular yet since baby Drake.

I am currently reading 'Are You There Alone' Andrea Yates story. One of the things they mention with her is not just PPD (Post-Partum Depression) but PPP (Post-Partum Pyhscosis). Is it possible that Darlie was going thru the same thing maybe not as pyhcatic level as Andrea. (Good god that woman was whacked, total nut bar.) That fact that she wanted more children.:waitasec: Just joking.

Anyway just wanted to thro another thought. And again I'm sure you guys have talked this one to death but like I stated in another thread, I'm just plum lazy to take a hike thru past posts.

S

 

[j2mirish]

I just finished reading the book 'Flesh and Blood' by Patricia Springer. Got it from the local library. After reading all the books and looking at the pictures of CWB book. This maybe has been done to death between here and CTV. If so forgive my ignorance but I am gonna thro it out anyway.

In the books they all state how Darlie was suicidal on May 3rd of that same year she murdered her children. Then 2 days later she got her monthly cycle. Well my question today is suppose she was just plain ole PMSing on June 6th? It's close to the last monthly within a few days and maybe her cycles weren't regular yet since baby Drake.

I am currently reading 'Are You There Alone' Andrea Yates story. One of the things they mention with her is not just PPD (Post-Partum Depression) but PPP (Post-Partum Pyhscosis). Is it possible that Darlie was going thru the same thing maybe not as pyhcatic level as Andrea. (Good god that woman was whacked, total nut bar.) That fact that she wanted more children.:waitasec: Just joking.

Anyway just wanted to thro another thought. And again I'm sure you guys have talked this one to death but like I stated in another thread, I'm just plum lazy to take a hike thru past posts.

S

ANDREA YATES HUSBAND SHOULD BE BEHHIND BARS RIGHT ALONG WITH HER.. sorry-- i know ot..