Why would the Ramseys need to stage?
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JBR's room:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=jonb...=5NrlVtbmAaa0jgTb1p_ADA#imgrc=lbV63w9IlBd1NM:
"37 Hands bound after the rigor mortis had set in.."
Why so?
@ the two hour mark?
https://www.google.ca/search?q=jonb...=5NrlVtbmAaa0jgTb1p_ADA#imgrc=lbV63w9IlBd1NM:
"37 Hands bound after the rigor mortis had set in.."
Why so?
@ the two hour mark?
dang edit ,
ya, injury + staging approaches / @ 2 hour mark.
I've got to wonder M_S, post discovery of the body, with PR calling upon Lazarus to resurrect her child, what would be the bare bones minimum time frame that these bible thumpers would have engaged in ritualistic prayer, post mortem ?
Is there like a 'top 3' prayers"?
"40 It's my guess that the garrote with a stick attached was a man way of thinking .. I also think that women esp moms pay attention to the hairs and necklaces ..so P would avoid JBR's hair and necklace tangling in knot of the cord that way.. "
astute observation
I appreciate the logistics detailed within your theory.
ya, injury + staging approaches / @ 2 hour mark.
I've got to wonder M_S, post discovery of the body, with PR calling upon Lazarus to resurrect her child, what would be the bare bones minimum time frame that these bible thumpers would have engaged in ritualistic prayer, post mortem ?
Is there like a 'top 3' prayers"?
"40 It's my guess that the garrote with a stick attached was a man way of thinking .. I also think that women esp moms pay attention to the hairs and necklaces ..so P would avoid JBR's hair and necklace tangling in knot of the cord that way.. "
astute observation
I appreciate the logistics detailed within your theory.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/ritesrituals/funerals.shtml
"If someone is on their deathbed, a minister will prepare them for death. This is most likely after a long period of illness. Prayers of preparation and reconciliation may be said, with only the minister in the room. Family and friends can participate in the Lord's Prayer, the Word of God and Holy Communion."
Lord's Prayer
Matthew 6:9-13
“‘Our Father in heaven,......
the Word of God
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-The-Word-Of-God/
Oh, there's a lot to pick and choose from in the 'Popular Topic' section.
Hmmm, they might have prayed for hours, heads bowed, hand in hand?
"If someone is on their deathbed, a minister will prepare them for death. This is most likely after a long period of illness. Prayers of preparation and reconciliation may be said, with only the minister in the room. Family and friends can participate in the Lord's Prayer, the Word of God and Holy Communion."
Lord's Prayer
Matthew 6:9-13
“‘Our Father in heaven,......
the Word of God
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-The-Word-Of-God/
Oh, there's a lot to pick and choose from in the 'Popular Topic' section.
Hmmm, they might have prayed for hours, heads bowed, hand in hand?
----------------------------------------
M_S?
How does the 'light on in the butler's kitchen at midnight' fit into your scenario?
I often wonder if the out of the norm pattern of lighting that night, security light off, butler's kitchen light on,
well if there was a specific item that was needed from that locale, or if it was just a ruse.
Only unconfirmed accounts suggests "late-night" movement of people in the Ramsey kitchen"?
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682525/What Neighbors Reported
Bluecrab
"Gibbons, from his own kitchen window, observed the "late-night" movement of people in the Ramsey kitchen who, according to Gibbons, seemed to be creeping around in the semi-darkness so as not to awaken others in the house. Gibbons also saw a light on in the butler's kitchen at about 12 midnight, the first time he had ever seen that light burning." No source is provided for this information.
M_S?
How does the 'light on in the butler's kitchen at midnight' fit into your scenario?
I often wonder if the out of the norm pattern of lighting that night, security light off, butler's kitchen light on,
well if there was a specific item that was needed from that locale, or if it was just a ruse.
Only unconfirmed accounts suggests "late-night" movement of people in the Ramsey kitchen"?
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682525/What Neighbors Reported
Bluecrab
"Gibbons, from his own kitchen window, observed the "late-night" movement of people in the Ramsey kitchen who, according to Gibbons, seemed to be creeping around in the semi-darkness so as not to awaken others in the house. Gibbons also saw a light on in the butler's kitchen at about 12 midnight, the first time he had ever seen that light burning." No source is provided for this information.
MURDERER_SERVANT
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Hey TP
I think the butler's kitchen is very close to the spiral staircase where the RN and within a plain view of where the note pad and pen was found. The maglite was also near that area.. Maglite could be used while writing the RN ..
Just thinking out loud now..
Basement , spiral staircase , butler's door and the maglite on the kitchen counter...hmmmm
My guess is someone probably JR , used that butler's door to go to the back garden with the maglite to hide kind of evidence linking him to the murder which may include JB's size six panties and pjama bottoms etc. He might have buried them there...And maybe thats's why he all of a sudden decided to find the body of JBR in case K9 dogs would come and discover the evidence in the garden .. For the body he one way or another had an intruder plan, but for the hidden items no way .
It appears to me something triggerred him to change the plan and to bring JBR up..
Jmo and speculation..
Intheamadhouse
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What an interesting (and very complete) theory. What do you think Burke struck her with? I can't think of anything that would cause the injury in an unused bedroom.
BoldBear
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Soil touched in the yard would have been obvious. This is Colorado in winter. Cold hard soil.
Dumpsters in the alley would be more likely for disposal of evidence, but you had dogs to the West on the other side of the alley. They like to bark when anyone is out there. That neighbor didn't hear the dogs on that night.
Dumpsters in the alley would be more likely for disposal of evidence, but you had dogs to the West on the other side of the alley. They like to bark when anyone is out there. That neighbor didn't hear the dogs on that night.
@Itmd
Flashlight under the covers?
----------------------------------
@M_S, the instrument of torture is not limited to the basement.
JK:
"So, this is what Harry sent me,
it's a piece of low guage train track
it usualy has three pins in it,
we've taken out the center pin, here, for
demonstration purposes.
This is the same type of train
on the floor as well as on that
table in the train room downstairs
you just saw a video of.
There was, loose pieces of this type of track
in Burke's bedroom as well.
In the crime scene video."
[video=youtube;QofH2gBtC6A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QofH2gBtC6A[/video]
@4:22 route down spiral staircase, through Butler's kitchen, to stairs down to basement.
#4 Basement stairs light switch:
http://www.documentingreality.com/f...072009-jonben-t-ramsey-floor-plans-floor1.jpg
Where's the light switch to the Butler's kitchen and exterior security light?
Has anyone ever taken note of the location?
@4:22 route down spiral staircase, through Butler's kitchen, to stairs down to basement.
#4 Basement stairs light switch:
http://www.documentingreality.com/f...072009-jonben-t-ramsey-floor-plans-floor1.jpg
Where's the light switch to the Butler's kitchen and exterior security light?
Has anyone ever taken note of the location?
MURDERER_SERVANT
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There might be rocky paths to walk on in the yard or he might have stepped on stones on some areas ...or he might have even contaminated
footprints with the flashlight in hand.. flashlight was cleaned later on:thinking:
txsvicki
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Someone mentioned blood on the blanket, but I thought we'd never been told if anything was on the blanket? I remember blood spot on the pillow? I think the person who hit her in the head also strangled her and put the duct tape on the mouth and wrist cords, probably. The only thing to stage was the note and moving the body wrapped in the blanket. That was to make it seem like she was kidnapped then murdered for some reason before being removed from the home. They may have hoped that she could be later removed from the home and not even staging that part. The note was so stupid and unbelieveable it's hard to say just what anyone was thinking with that, and is why I think the person was half drunk or high on barbituates during the phases of writing it, with possibly coming down off something towards the end. There is more facts that we've never been told, so it's hard to say for sure on anything.
Heymom
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My vote for the poll that started the thread is 1), 2) and 3). I do not think that Patsy had a break with reality, although her ransom letter was very theatrical. I think she and John had no experience with true crime, and used what they had seen in movies and read in books to try and steer the investigation away from the truth. They were amateurs but the BPD were on that level too, unfortunately. No matter what they did and didn't do, Burke couldn't be charged anyway, which the DA seemed to realize rather quickly. He could have arrested JR & PR but what good would that have done, really? Then Burke would have to be put in custody and Boulder would look heartless. It was a no-win situation for all concerned.
I'm sorry for JonBenet.
I'm sorry for JonBenet.
My vote for the poll that started the thread is 1), 2) and 3). I do not think that Patsy had a break with reality, although her ransom letter was very theatrical. I think she and John had no experience with true crime, and used what they had seen in movies and read in books to try and steer the investigation away from the truth. They were amateurs but the BPD were on that level too, unfortunately. No matter what they did and didn't do, Burke couldn't be charged anyway, which the DA seemed to realize rather quickly. He could have arrested JR & PR but what good would that have done, really? Then Burke would have to be put in custody and Boulder would look heartless. It was a no-win situation for all concerned.
I'm sorry for JonBenet.
Wow. Just...wow. Heymom, I've said it for a long time: putting the Rs in prison would have done no one any good.
Heymom
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Of course, it could have turned out much worse - they didn't know for sure that Burke wouldn't snap at someone else. That was the wild card in the equation, but I suppose they had psychiatric opinion that he wouldn't be dangerous to the general population. For all we know, they got this information to Alex Hunter through the lawyers and promised to continue Burke's treatment privately if he would leave them alone. Even if he hadn't, the case would have brought very negative publicity onto Boulder, and no one at the top wanted that outcome.
What a pity for JonBenet. Poor little girl, deserted by her family from the start.
PositiveLight
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I don't know... I think the parents should have been charged. Burke could live with family and receive treatment. No one can be certain he wouldn't snap again. Or hasn't already and just wasn't caught or it was quickly covered up yet again. Just speculating though. I don't think it was good to leave Burke in the same environment that lead to this horrid act. The continued lying to cover hasn't taught him anything. He seems stunted maturity wise. He is still that 9 year old boy in a man's body. He doesn't appear to have gotten better with time imho. He still giggles while talking about his sister's brutal death. What kind of sibling doesn't try to solve their sister's murder once they have gotten older? Never read the ransom note either? It's all lies. There is no truth in what they say. None of them learned a darn thing from this. It hurts my heart that JonBenet died such a brutal death and will never receive justice in any form. Things have to change in our justice system. These crimes can't continue. These babies don't deserve this. We must stand up for the ones without a voice. No longer should we sit back and let lies continue. People should be held accountable if they played a part in it. I honestly think it's messed up that they weren't ever charged. By not charging them, the justice system gets out of balance. People start copycat crimes and get off with it because hey look at JonBenet's case! One of the first things that need to change is the infancy law. Kids are maturing way faster now and the law needs to keep up. It should be available for a DA to have the option to charge if they think it was done with intent. There shouldn't be a statute of limitation on accessory to first degree murder either. I also don't think it's fair that a GJ finding isn't released to the public in full. Even if the DA doesn't proceed it still should be for public viewing. So many lessons can be learned from this. There needs to be changes made. This whole case needs to be re examined fully. All evidence retested. Too many experts that have reviewed the case think there is more to the story. If the Ramsey's are totally innocent they would be screaming from the rooftops for justice. But they aren't screaming for justice and that speaks volumes. Rambling as usual but it just hurts my heart over this.
While I would love to see the R's charged and convicted, I doubt that's ever going to happen.
There are kinds of justice which don't require the government's seal of approval (not suggesting anyone take matters into their own hands!). Due to my own politics, I don't believe that the government is the end all and be all arbiter of justice. I think the people knowing that this family did something terrible is a kind of justice. It's not the best, but it's all we have. Let us be grateful that we have that. I am grateful to CBS for finally showing a mainstream documentary about this case that points the finger at the family. Now maybe more people will learn the truth, and in our hearts there will be justice for innocent little JonBenét.
Not to mention, their day of judgement will come and they will have to answer to the god they claim to be so devoted to.
I would love, love, if we could have another GJ or something. Although I would prefer if it was something where the evidence would be released (of course!!)
Now maybe it's just how we are, but I find it so weird that BR would have never read the Ransom story. Were it my sister and I was innocent, I would be pouring through the facts and clues to try and find something. Being part of the family you're in a special place to notice things, anything out of place, something you don't recognize, etc.
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InstantProof
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Sometimes I feel the staging was for their friends and neighbors (who are called over to witness it all). Even if the R's were arrested later that day, they would still have supporters who'd believe it was a kidnapping. I think they were that concerned about their image. But then the day doesn't go as they assumed and it evolves into a plan to fool LE...?
