GUILTY WI - Apple River multiple stabbing; one teen dead, 4 other people hurt; 52 year old man arrested, July 2022

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Medical examiner testifies​

Victor Froloff, an assistant medical examiner for the Ramsey County medical examiner’s office, testified the autopsy showed Schuman suffered a 4-inch stab wound that cut through two ribs, a lung and his heart.

In the final report, Froloff said Schuman died of exsanguination, or bleeding to death as a result of a stab wound to the left chest, and the manner of death was homicide.

A toxicology test showed Schuman’s blood-alcohol content was 0.219 and no other substances or drugs were found in his system, Froloff said.

Under cross-examination, Nelson noted Schuman’s BAC was more than 2½ times the legal limit to drive.

Nelson asked Froloff questions about how the wound became that deep.



Wednesday, April 10th 2024
 
Thank you. Did anyone ask him what he meant by that and why he kept saying it?
It’s kind of equivalent to how people shout “world star” imo, and not so much as saying for the greater good. They did touch on it in his testimony which is when he said it meant for the greater good.
 
It’s a quote from the video taken and said by JC. He says it means “for the greater good”.
Yikes— it almost gives me white supremacist vibes…..IMO. What culture are they trying to protect?
 
I don’t know if Urban Dictionary is an approved source, but has a very interesting definition of “for the culture”….
 
Yikes— it almost gives me white supremacist vibes…..IMO. What culture are they trying to protect?
It’s kind of equivalent to how people shout “world star” imo, and not so much as saying for the greater good. They did touch on it in his testimony which is when he said it meant for the greater good.
Agree with Dogface here. I don’t think saying “for the culture” really meant much of anything in this situation. But Jawahn is black and “the culture,” in my experience is usually referring to Black American culture.
 
Agree with Dogface here. I don’t think saying “for the culture” really meant much of anything in this situation. But Jawahn is black and “the culture,” in my experience is usually referring to Black American culture.
So he was basically egging them on, shouting encouragement. What it sounds like to me, anyway. If I were NM, hearing those taunts would definitely increase my fear and panic.
 
I went back and rewatched the nurses testimony, and the video again. I do think a hit to that area of the head can be quite disorientating. He hit it hard enough to have a bruise. I’m surprised that hasn’t been touched on more by defense.
 
Agree with Dogface here. I don’t think saying “for the culture” really meant much of anything in this situation. But Jawahn is black and “the culture,” in my experience is usually referring to Black American culture.

I believe he also said "does this guy know he is on camera?". So preservation of a video maybe for social media....
 
I went back and rewatched the nurses testimony, and the video again. I do think a hit to that area of the head can be quite disorientating. He hit it hard enough to have a bruise. I’m surprised that hasn’t been touched on more by defense.

Good point— could even have caused concussion potentially?
 
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Is it possible that the prosecutors added the lesser charges late as a tactic? I could easily see jurors thinking first degree murder is too severe, and when the lesser charges were added they’d be happy to “settle” for something lesser because they do want to hold Miu responsible. But by then the prosecution has already set the tone by saying this was worthy of a first degree murder charge, so it could skew jurors toward a more severe outcome or more likely a guilty verdict than if all the options had been available from the start.

Apparently the defense doesn’t have the right to challenge the inclusion of lesser charges, so not including them from the start would not have been a gamble for the prosecution.
Apple River stabbing trial: Prosecutors ask jurors consider lesser charges :

Miu faces a count of first-degree murder for the death of Isaac Schuman and four other counts of attempted first-degree intentional homicide for the other four victims injured that day.

Tuesday, the prosecution asked the judge to allow jurors to also consider second-degree intentional homicide; first-degree reckless homicide; second-degree reckless homicide for count one. For the other four counts, prosecutors requested jurors hear attempted second-degree homicide; first-degree recklessly endangering safety; second-degree recklessly endangering safety.
 
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Is it possible that the prosecutors added the lesser charges late as a tactic? I could easily see jurors thinking first degree murder is too severe, and when the lesser charges were added they’d be happy to “settle” for something lesser because they do want to hold Miu responsible. But by then the prosecution has already set the tone by saying this was worthy of a first degree murder charge, so it could skew jurors toward a more severe outcome or more likely a guilty verdict than if all the options had been available from the start.

Apparently the defense doesn’t have the right to challenge the inclusion of lesser charges, so not including them from the start would not have been a gamble for the prosecution.
Seems completely unfair to me. How do you mount an effective campaign against uncharged offenses?
 
I believe he also said "does this guy know he is on camera?". So preservation of a video maybe for social media....
This is how I interpreted it.

The boys were being complete fools. I just really cannot understand where the “oh my god that must have been so scary” sentiments are coming from. Because the boys were being loud and obnoxious and saying mean things to him? I mean, I can see wanting to be like “ohhhhkay, these guys are clearly teenage morons and probably drunk and therefore somewhat unpredictable” and making my exit at the first possible opportunity, for sure. But he went back to them, and he held a couple of them there by their tubes, AND you can hear people telling him to leave multiple times. There’s no “come here and fight me”, “you’re not going anywhere”, “I’ll kick your [redacted]”, etc. you don’t see the boys grab him by the ankle and drag him over. No one else was showing him a weapon or even claiming they had one when they didn’t.

If you find a group of random young people that threatening even in theory, then like…why approach them in the first place? If The Youth Today are so terrifying that the idea of them just yelling stupid insulting garbage at you would have you in such fear that you think you’d need to stab someone to death over it, then why was he even over there to start with? If the stupid lost phone (which it sounds like no one but the defendant was that invested in anyways) was so critically important why not just wait a few minutes for the boys to clear out? Why go back towards them after already having unpleasantness with them? And then to not only brandish a weapon, but immediately use it AND stab FIVE people? He jumped to using it so fast that people were saying they hadn’t even registered that he HAD a knife until after they’d been stabbed.

There’s just too much here for me to ignore. And he was 52 when this happened. I get that he might not have been in peak physical condition but he wasn’t 95 and frail and confused. He was not that much older than I am and I certainly don’t plan to be using “I’m just an elderly frightened old woman” to excuse my poor choices for many many years yet, LOL
 
And the answer to your question is alcohol. They were all drunk idiots.

Honestly the fact the police didn't breathalyze everyone and document it, the teens all should have tickets for everything related to underage drinking, public intoxication etc, and this doesn't excuse NM he stabbed and killed someone he needs to be punished for that.

I think this would be a wildly different trial and the arguments would be a lot different from the lawyers if they had taken everyone including NM's blood alcohol level, he seems fine in the police interrogation but I've seen alcoholics who can function well with insanely high levels of intoxication
 
This is how I interpreted it.

The boys were being complete fools. I just really cannot understand where the “oh my god that must have been so scary” sentiments are coming from. Because the boys were being loud and obnoxious and saying mean things to him? I mean, I can see wanting to be like “ohhhhkay, these guys are clearly teenage morons and probably drunk and therefore somewhat unpredictable” and making my exit at the first possible opportunity, for sure. But he went back to them, and he held a couple of them there by their tubes, AND you can hear people telling him to leave multiple times. There’s no “come here and fight me”, “you’re not going anywhere”, “I’ll kick your [redacted]”, etc. you don’t see the boys grab him by the ankle and drag him over. No one else was showing him a weapon or even claiming they had one when they didn’t.

If you find a group of random young people that threatening even in theory, then like…why approach them in the first place? If The Youth Today are so terrifying that the idea of them just yelling stupid insulting garbage at you would have you in such fear that you think you’d need to stab someone to death over it, then why was he even over there to start with? If the stupid lost phone (which it sounds like no one but the defendant was that invested in anyways) was so critically important why not just wait a few minutes for the boys to clear out? Why go back towards them after already having unpleasantness with them? And then to not only brandish a weapon, but immediately use it AND stab FIVE people? He jumped to using it so fast that people were saying they hadn’t even registered that he HAD a knife until after they’d been stabbed.

There’s just too much here for me to ignore. And he was 52 when this happened. I get that he might not have been in peak physical condition but he wasn’t 95 and frail and confused. He was not that much older than I am and I certainly don’t plan to be using “I’m just an elderly frightened old woman” to excuse my poor choices for many many years yet, LOL

Undoubtedly, kids were being obnoxious and loud. That is why Mui's group decided NOT to go by the teens. And why Mui decided to go over by them.
As an older woman, I am 1000% for self defense. IMO, this is NOT a self defense case.
This is a case of a man thinking he can teach a few drunk teens a lesson. But, it got out of hand when they started calling him a pedophile, boy, that got him MAD.

And when the boys yelled for help, and two women were coming over and telling him to get the *advertiser censored*** out of there, he pulled a knife on a 115 pound women and a woman holding a beer can. How brave he was.

When he turn back to the boys that were behind him, NOT surrounding him, the girls grabbed him, and he turned and hit Maddie and stabbed Ryley. Video saws him jabbing Ryley when she was holding her phone up in front of him. (at this time he had knife in hand). He hit Maddie probably with left hand and jabbed with right hand. I dont think Ryley even realized she had been stabbed. Then boys went after him and he began stabbing the boys.
 
And the answer to your question is alcohol. They were all drunk idiots.

Honestly the fact the police didn't breathalyze everyone and document it, the teens all should have tickets for everything related to underage drinking, public intoxication etc, and this doesn't excuse NM he stabbed and killed someone he needs to be punished for that.

I think this would be a wildly different trial and the arguments would be a lot different from the lawyers if they had taken everyone including NM's blood alcohol level, he seems fine in the police interrogation but I've seen alcoholics who can function well with insanely high levels of intoxication

Agreed. Sloppy police work for not doing a BAC on the defendant. But, we can't fault NM for LEO not doing a BAC on him. Annoying.

I have gone back and forth on this one, but my issue is still with the knife. However, we were not there, and there is a lot of conflicting information.

I can almost see a convincing point to be made for both sides. Toss up on this one for me. Although, I still was really rubbed wrong by the testimony of one of the witnesses, he seemed like an arrogant punk on the stand...and I was surprised he was considered a "victim" in this altercation.
 
The younger (Isaac's group) may have been charged with under age drinking, we dont know because they were minors at the time of incident.

Keep in mind that NM also drinking that day, and possibly intoxicated. His actions speak to it.

NM seemed more concerned for a friend's cellular phone and his goggles & snorkel than for life. Sad.


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