GUILTY WI - Apple River multiple stabbing; one teen dead, 4 other people hurt; 52 year old man arrested, July 2022

Castle laws....

I know it's not a home, it's a public waterway...

But did he have the right to enter into their space on the river?

By doing do, didn't the young adults/teens have the right to defend their ground? Can you claim self-defense if you breached the "door"?

How would this event have looked if it involved an altercation in someone's yard or on a roadway, taken next level?

I don't personally see self-defense, in particularly based on his behavior immediately and soon after. I see anger. I see lesson-teaching.

We'll see what the jury sees.

JMO
 
Apple River stabbing trial closing arguments, jury deliberations begin. Click the image to read more:


The state on Tuesday said it is also seeking lesser charges related to the initial counts. They are:

  • For count 1 (the death of Isaac Schuman), also consider: second-degree intentional homicide; first-degree reckless homicide; second-degree reckless homicide
  • For counts 2-5 (the stabbings of A.J. Martin, Ryhley Mattison, Anthony "Tony" Carlson and Dante Carlson), also consider: attempted second-degree homicide; first-degree recklessly endangering safety; second-degree recklessly endangering safety
  • For Madison Coen: Battery
 
Glad that I am not on this jury; yet again I wish I was. Fortunately I am not a resident of WI but have family there.

IMO the reason for why NM had a knife with him is not relevant.

What might matter however, is why and how he used it.

As others noted up thread, the individual showing in court the scars on his abdomen…… and the extent of injuries to the slain individual IMO speak largely as to how he used the knife. MOO
 
Glad that I am not on this jury; yet again I wish I was. Fortunately I am not a resident of WI but have family there.

IMO the reason for why NM had a knife with him is not relevant.

What might matter however, is why and how he used it.

As others noted up thread, the individual showing in court the scars on his abdomen…… and the extent of injuries to the slain individual IMO speak largely as to how he used the knife. MOO

If you are rightfully defending yourself, it doesn't matter in terms of the law if you shoot them in the leg, torso or the head. To me, same thing.. why stab someone and not do it hard enough to incapacitate them if you are truly defending yourself.


just my 2 cents' worth
 
We should just be super relieved that the jury is NOT allowed to watch YouTube true crime "content creators" while they're in deliberation.

It's bad enough it seemed like ALL the witnesses had already watched/ seen videos ABOUT the incident.

I just listened to the bit from yesterday about the backup juror who was seen by someone dozing off during about an hour of the day. Sheeeeeesh.

@otto, it's Grey Hughes telling us his opinion. He says NM stabbed people but took the knife out when he felt threatened.
He replays Jawaon's video, pauses it, and says NM lost his snorkel, acknowledges the knife was on his person. Gray shows no knife in his hand until more people show up and it's right as NM looks up at everyone. He pauses video right as AJ is stabbed, shows RM checking her stab wound, and the shrieks as Jawaon realises Isaac is dead.

Gray doesn't explain much, not much insight, IMO.

"You can see the water is filled with blood there"
You don't see Isaac stabbed on the screen.

A lot of "yeah we know" moments to me, but that's Gray Hughes.
Video doesn't lie and the video is key evidence in this case.
 
I think the first question/request by jury is interesting. The two clips clearly show Miu had a wide path that he could have left .....no one around him. I think it will be reckless homicide . Intent should not even be an option ...he did not go there with intent to kill someone even when taunted.
 
Video doesn't lie and the video is key evidence in this case.

Gray Hughes is phenomenal at recreating (graphically) Probable Cause Affidavits. Re: Moscow Murders and Delphi Murders.

That is his true calling. Otherwise, I'm not all that interested in his analysis although his logic & power of observation seem to be very good..
 
I don't think the accused accidentally dropped his mask and snorkel near the bare leg of the female who was in her tube.

Plunging the knife deep into AJ's abdomen was a stab meant to kill.

Then, there's the lying to the police that indicates a guilty conscious for when he was placed in a patrol car, he was feigning innocence.

It is understandable why the jury would want to view the video again to be certain of their decision. I trust they'll get it right. JMO
 
I wonder if the jury needing to watch the video so many times is:
1) they take their job very seriously and are being thorough
2) there is a disagreement amongst themselves they are trying to settle
 
I don't think the accused accidentally dropped his mask and snorkel near the bare leg of the female who was in her tube.

Plunging the knife deep into AJ's abdomen was a stab meant to kill.

Then, there's the lying to the police that indicates a guilty conscious for when he was placed in a patrol car, he was feigning innocence.

It is understandable why the jury would want to view the video again to be certain of their decision. I trust they'll get it right. JMO

We've all seen the video multiple times...so it stands to reason they would want to look at it (or parts of it) again.. .and maybe again and again.
 
I wonder if the jury needing to watch the video so many times is:
1) they take their job very seriously and are being thorough
2) there is a disagreement amongst themselves they are trying to settle

probably both. A key question might be, when the stabbing occurred, was it provoked? if there was disagreement, they probably talked about what they would need to see (or not see) in the video to be certain (if that is even possible).

What makes me feel good that the jury is on track for an actual verdict is that they quickly ignored all the banter before and the exit afterwards and are concentrating on the trigger for the stabbings.

To me, this is the key question. Did he stab anyone BEFORE he was choked or pushed down and punched.
 
probably both. A key question might be, when the stabbing occurred, was it provoked? if there was disagreement, they probably talked about what they would need to see (or not see) in the video to be certain (if that is even possible).

What makes me feel good that the jury is on track for an actual verdict is that they quickly ignored all the banter before and the exit afterwards and are concentrating on the trigger for the stabbings.

To me, this is the key question. Did he stab anyone BEFORE he was choked or pushed down and punched.
This is exactly how I finally came to my own decision.
 
Video doesn't lie and the video is key evidence in this case

Jawaon's video, yes. Which is why all I see is mob mentality taking over a bunch of drunk and privileged adults who use their sense of power to verbally taunt an older, unfit, confused looking man who they all determine is a beta, not a powerful alpha, whom they eventually push to the water (honestly, if this was a grass field I'd feel differently.)

MC and RM knew nothing concrete about anything that happened to cause the boys to say they were in the presence of a dangerous paedophile and raper. They took the teens word for it, she immediately took a side (the teens), and started cursing and put HER hands on NM.

It's a far cry from going down to make sure things are OK. All the 2 of them did was go to "check it out", put themselves at the center of it. Even when NM was over getting cussed out by MC, the teens did NOT leave with their tubes downriver. They continued with yelling and filming and "who's THIS guy? Said he was looking for little girls"- Jahwaon's voice continues and it's lord of the flies, all that yelling and escalating "get him!" Mentality.

"You got ten seconds!"
 
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