WI - Corey Stingley, 16, dies in altercation at West Allis store, 14 Dec 2012

Discussion in 'Crimes-Spotlight on Children' started by Justiceforever, Jan 19, 2014.

  1. Justiceforever

    Justiceforever New Member

    Messages:
    2,802
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Outrage grows and crowds rally over the Milwaukee County District Attorney John Chisholm's decision not to press charges against three men who violently restrained and ultimately killed 16 yr. old Corey Stingley.

    http://www.wisn.com/news/south-east...ley/-/10148890/23987354/-/3n92yf/-/index.html

    Corey was killed while being restrained for stealing alcohol at a West Allis convenience store. Video shows 3 men physically fighting the youth, just out of view of the camera.

    Video here...

    http://youtu.be/A1eftb3zvJY

    The medical examiner ruled Corey's death a homicide but the D.A. refuses to charge the 3 men responsible.

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwau...ley-death-homicide-b99185586z1-240532271.html

    Corey's father has asked Federal prosecutors to investigate his son's death.

    http://fox6now.com/2014/01/15/corey-stingleys-father-others-to-host-demonstration-wednesday/

    Federal prosecutors have agreed to review the case....

    http://www.wisn.com/news/south-east...se/-/10148890/24003232/-/uifso3z/-/index.html


    Here is Corey Stingley's online obituary...

    http://www.legacy.com/guestbooks/js...addentry&sign=0#sthash.5fAXghwd.DdhtccwA.dpbs
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Loading...


  3. Tulessa

    Tulessa Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    22,203
    Likes Received:
    314
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Thief does not constitute murder.
     
  4. Justiceforever

    Justiceforever New Member

    Messages:
    2,802
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    From an article in Milwaukee JS by Eugene Kane...

    "...many see this latest death as another troubling sign of the justice system's lack of empathy for young black males."

    "The theft of liquor from the store seems to be all the usual suspects need to dismiss Stingley as a common criminal and suggest all of the people in town who showed up at community meetings and a press conference on the north side last week to respond to Chisholm's decision were either bleeding hearts or delusional.


    Some even insist it's a case of bad parenting and not telling children to take responsibility for their actions."

     
  5. Montjoy

    Montjoy Inactive

    Messages:
    5,230
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm not sure what this means [modsnip]. Does it mean that killing a thief is not/cannot be considered murder? So, by extension, it is legal or moral to kill anyone who commits theft? JMO, but I hope not.
     
  6. Justiceforever

    Justiceforever New Member

    Messages:
    2,802
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0

    If I understand you correctly Tulessa, I agree. Being a thief does not justify homicide. (I hope that made sense.)

    [modsnip]
     
  7. Justiceforever

    Justiceforever New Member

    Messages:
    2,802
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    My sincere apologies. I spelled Corey Stingley's name wrong. I will edit my posts and could a mod please edit the title of this thread and the title of my post? TIA
     
  8. TooCurious

    TooCurious Former Member

    Messages:
    690
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Being a theif doesn't justify killing the man but being accidentally killed while he was in the commission of his crime is not criminal. Three men try to subdue a criminal and the criminal dies. Now we want them proesecuted? All events that occurred that day were set in motion by the deceased. When I first read the topic I thought "what a tragedy" but after I have read this, the tragedy is how we turn criminals into victims and victims into criminals.
     
  9. Salem

    Salem Former Member

    Messages:
    29,160
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Shopkeepers can use a reasonable amount of force to detain a suspected shoplifter. The key here is that it has to be reasonable. Is 3 men detaining 1 teen by force reasonable? I haven't read articles yet, but my hinky meter is on alert from the headlines (just what the media likes).

    Salem
     
  10. Salem

    Salem Former Member

    Messages:
    29,160
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I watched the video and it is just the saddest thing ever. Where is the attempt to reccesitate? However you spell that. LE shows up and doesn't start CRP immediately? What is that?

    And the men were not shopkeepers, they were just customers?

    Oh my :( Loose your life over 4 lousy beers that the shopkeeper got back. He had the whole backpack. LE would have tracked that kid down in 5 minutes. :(

    Salem
     
  11. PoeticJustice

    PoeticJustice Member

    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I was always told never to detain a shoplifter but to call the police.
     
  12. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

    Messages:
    14,839
    Likes Received:
    2,455
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Actually, using enough force to kill a person during a citizen's arrest for theft indeed can be criminal. And if that's wha happened here, they certainly should be prosecuted.

    You can't shoot a person for running out of a store with goods. Neither can you tackle and suffocate a person for such a crime.

    Now, is there a risk that something horrible like this can happen if you commit a crime? Yup. And young people need to be aware of those risks along with imprisonment and reputation, etc. but those are two different things. Just because there is a risk to the criminal of violence or death when they commit a crime does not mean citizens can kill them for theft and avoid legal ramifications themselves.

    The question here is whether the force used was reasonable and how exactly this kid died. The coroner ruled it homicide and said he was deprived of oxygen. There is such a thing as justifiable homicide but that's usually a self defense scenario. To me, suffocation is not "accidental". It takes a long time and usually, the person being suffocated will gasp they they can't breathe before losing consciousness.

    When I was a kid, several of my friends went on what we called "beer runs", dashing into stores and grabbing beers. It was theft. It wasn't cute. But none of them were killed for it. In fact, one who was actually arrested at age 17, later became a cop for the city of Anaheim! (He had to answer for the theft when he applied. He deemed it a "prank".)

    Of course most of my friends who stole beer as teens were white. Maybe that's the difference. Statistics show that black people tend to be treated differently than others by the criminal justice system and society when it comes to crimes they commit and crimes commited against them.

    Perhaps that has to do with the outcome here. I don't know.
     
  13. Salem

    Salem Former Member

    Messages:
    29,160
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I agree Gitana1. I think this is just tragic.

    It is so common for teens to steal beer (or cigs). This was so unnecessary. That they even jumped the kid after the shopkeeper had the beer back is just mind boogling. Why?

    Salem
     
  14. gxm

    gxm New Member

    Messages:
    3,392
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think the important element in this case is that the one customer put CS in a choke hold after CS punched him in the face which makes CS the aggressor. (Above and beyond instigating the event by shoplifting alcohol.) Further, the person who put him in the choke hold only intended to restrain him, not injure him. Legally, it will be interesting to see how this case evolves.
     
  15. TooCurious

    TooCurious Former Member

    Messages:
    690
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I disagree. Any citizens has the right to detain and arrest a person in the process of a criminal act. If that person accidentally dies, the citizen is not at fault. If he was killed while they were in the process of detaining him (with reasonable force and he is combative) then no criminal action has taken place. If he was killed after he was subdued then that is a different matter. Every citizens has the same right as a law enforcement officer to arrest and detain a person involved in a criminal act. Below is a link to guy that was killed while being detained on an airplane. He was beating on the cockpit door, no charges filed either.

    http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=95735
     
  16. TooCurious

    TooCurious Former Member

    Messages:
    690
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    True Gitana1 you can't shoot someone while running out of a store. That is not reasonable force. However you can physically detain someone and that force is reasonable. If he were tackled and he hit his head and died, would that be reasonable force or murder? If he had been there with a friend and both were involved in robbing the store, there would be a murder charge for sure but not on the customers! We always look for someone else to blame. The perp is dead, there isn't an accomplice, so let's charge the citizen. Crazy.
     
  17. TooCurious

    TooCurious Former Member

    Messages:
    690
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    And I don't mean to sound harsh, it is a tragedy but it will compounded if these men are charged. The one guy was still laying on the ground with him. They didn't know he had died.
     
  18. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

    Messages:
    14,839
    Likes Received:
    2,455
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hmmm. Not true. Any citizen does not have the right to arrest a person in the process of a criminal act.

    The laws vary state by state. Wisconsin law governing citizen's arrests is common law (meaning not by statute), with the exception of retail theft. Read together, this is what the law states:

    Wis. Statute 943.5 (3) states, in part:
    That means that a person can use force against another who is attempting to interfere with their own property, or the property of their family member or employer or someone else for whom they are acting as an agent. Only.

    The common law (case law) states:
    So these men did not have the right to detain or arrest the young man nor did they have the right to use force against him to prevent interference with the shop owner's property.

    The next question is whether they engaged in "criminally reckless conduct". Per statute:
    There is an intent element for the first degree felony - "utter disregard for human life". For the first or second degree charges:
    It appears here that the DA did not feel the three men were aware that their conduct created the unreasonable and substantial risk of death or great, bodily harm. I think that depends on how long the kid was in a head lock for and how much force was applied. Clearly, it was long enough and hard enough that he died. Such suffocation is not "accidental". But this does seem to be a case that's on the line.
     
  19. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

    Messages:
    14,839
    Likes Received:
    2,455
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The choice is not between reasonable force and murder. It is between another felony crime and reasonable force. Murder is not even on the table here.

    I think, after reading the statutes and case law, that it is not reasonable to tackle a person who has attempted to shoplift. Remember, the young man here did not take the beer. He was apprehended after leaving the beer with the merchant. The law does not allow force to be used at all in such a case.

    And this was not a robbery, so the felony murder rule would not apply here and is thus not a good analogy. The theft of beer is a misdemeanor, not a felony.
    Also, you can't can't use force against someone for an attempted misdemeanor, unless it is your own property, your family's or your employer's property. And you can't arrest someone without a warrant, at all for retail theft, if you're not LE.

    Further, choking a suspect out for several minutes while two other men lay atop him is far different from tackling a person who then accidentally hits their head.
     
  20. al66pine

    al66pine New Member

    Messages:
    4,346
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Vid clip runs ~5+ min. http://youtu.be/A1eftb3zvJY

    Per camera recorder timers

    ~15:58/00...... teen in camera frame, some diff cams & angles
    .....................teen puts (6? vodka?) bottles into backpack, etc
    .................... teen approaches cash register, 2 males already in line
    ~16:05/30.......teen hands debit(EBT?) card to cashier
    ~16:05/40.......teen grabs card back, backs?/ is pulled away? fm counter
    ~16:05/40?.....scuffle w others begins
    ~16:06/??........teen still upright & scuffling
    ~16:06/08.......teen on floor, but not yet 'pinned'
    GAP in recording...(maybe recorded but edited out of youtube?)
    ~16:15/08........LE car pulls into pk space
    ~16:15/25 ...... teen on floor, head still moving, LEO walks in
    ~16:15/?? .........LEO at side of teen on floor, head still moving
    clip ends

    For ~9 1/2 min maximum, teen may have pinned to floor.
    If teen was pinned & relatively still, someone may have choked the whole time.
    Possibly much less.
    Cant't tell without seeing rest of recording.
    Teen may have been scuffling w others for all that time.
    If so, hard to imagine other cd have bn choking him the whole 9 min.

    When LEO entered store & was at teen's side,
    he was still moving and alive, AFAICS.

    JM2cts and I could be wrong. :seeya:
     
  21. al66pine

    al66pine New Member

    Messages:
    4,346
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    gitana1,
    As always, thanks for your input--both the st statutes & case law, and your analysis.

    On first watching the youtube, I thought
    there was just a min. or two, when teen was pinned (and presumably choked).

    On re-watching, I saw that was not true, so I posted a timeline.

    From this vid vid clip, hard to say how long the other guys had him pinned,
    how long he was choked, whether one tine only, or multiple times intermittently.
    Which other(s?) did?

    TYVM.:seeya:
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice