Identified! WI - Jackson Co., Fem 874UFWI, 24-40, dismembered, Oct'90 - Julia Baez

Discussion in 'Identified!' started by not_my_kids, Jun 2, 2009.

  1. not_my_kids

    not_my_kids New Member

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    Mod Note: This thread deals with two separate UID's. I have duplicated the thread, and this thread will cover Case 874UFWI. Any further discussion of 406UFWI should be covered on the following thread:

    WI WI - Houlton, WhtFem 406UFWI, 35-60, Wide Set Eyes-Possibly Mentally Retarded, Oct'02 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

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    There was a headless body found in Black River Falls, WI 10-10-1990. She was a white female, estimated age to be anywhere from 24-40, she was 5'2" - 5'4", and had a stocky build. Her date of death would have been 2 weeks - 1 year earlier. SHe had been put into 2 garbage bags: her torso in one, limbs in another and buried them quickly in shallow graves right off I-94.

    Then in 10-19-2002, there was a bodiless head found in Jackson, WI, roughly 175 miles away. Her date of death is way off, she was believed to have died 6-9 months prior. But there are a lot of other factors involved that are too close for comfort. The head was also found in a garbage bag, in a ravine right off the side of the road and there were no other remains found at all. The skull was thought to have come from a woman 35-50, with dark brown hair. She could have been white, native american, asian, or white and hispanic mixed. They believe she may have been severly mentally impaired.

    I mapped the route from Black River falls to Jackson and I-94 where the head was found meets up I-39 and ends. On the other side of I-39 it becomes US-141, which takes you most of the way to Jackson. (At least that is what I see from the map, locals feel free to correct me.)

    Would it even be possible for the ME to be so wrong on the date of death for the skull? Maybe if it were kept in a controlled environment for a while, or if the garbage bag protected it a lot more than they thought? I don't know, it just seems very odd to me that in WI, where there are very few Does, there would be two dimembered bodies that are totally unconnected, especially since that means that there would be 2 uncaptured killers that prefer to dismember their victims, which is a relatively rare thing for people to do.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/874ufwi.html Body

    http://doenetwork.org/cases/406ufwi.html Head
     
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  3. defender123

    defender123 New Member

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    You bring up a very good point. Contact Doe and ask them a few more questions. On the head they were fairly specific on the dates, so they may have ruled this out. But it does not hurt to ask.
     
  4. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

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    Namus link for this Doe
    https://identifyus.org/cases/4767

    No DNA according to her DN page, Namus doesn't say anything about it.

    The 2002 Doe doesn't have a Namus page.

    Interesting coincidences there but the timing would have to be way off since the 2002 UID is estimated to have died 6 to 9 months earlier. The skull is said to be 90 % decomposed. Does that mean 90 % of the soft tissue was decomposed or what?

    Maybe the killer stored the head in the freezer for twelve years before ditching it.

    Another thing that strikes me as a problem is the description of the 2002 UID as likely to have been severely retarded and possibly institutionalized. The 1990 UID had a mushroom tattoo on her wrist. If it's true about the mental retardation (and it certainly looks like her facial features could fit some syndrome or another) she probably didn't have a tattoo IMO. It's possible but IMO somewhat unlikely. Someone who is so mentally impaired as to possibly require institutionalization may not have had the opportunity, the resources or even the impulse to acquire a tattoo. I am told that it is a somewhat painful procedure, and people with severe mental retardation may react to pain very strongly so their caretakers might not like the idea of subjecting them to unnecessary pain that is easily avoidable such as tattoos. Suppose choosing a mushroom tattoo for her might have been someone's idea of a sick joke if she really was mentally retarded. http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-of/mushroom

    Did you ever talk to anybody to find out more, Notmykids?


    Mod Note: Continue on this thread with any discussion of 874UFWI. Any further discussion of 406UFWI should be covered on the following thread:

    WI WI - Houlton, WhtFem 406UFWI, 35-60, Wide Set Eyes-Possibly Mentally Retarded, Oct'02 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
     
  5. jmix

    jmix New Member

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    Some thoughts:

    1. Houlton is in a exceptionally remote area along the St. Croix River. If the skull was not that of a resident, then the person who placed it where it was found would have to be very familiar with the area. It's certainly off the beaten path.
    2. If the skull belongs to a women of Native American ancestry, it is possible that she was born on a reservation and lived there most, if not all, of her life. This may be why searches of institutions might not be helpful as her birth would have been recorded by the tribe and she may have been cared for by relatives rather than placed in a facility.
    3. The chances of the woman being Asian and in that age range in Western Wisconsin/Eastern Minnesota are remote. The majority of that the area's population is White and adopting foreign national children didn't really begin until the early to mid 1970s.
    4. As far as tattoos on people who are profoundly mentally handicapped: They are uncommon, but not unheard of. While a person with developmental disabilities may not tolerate pain very well, they are unfortunately easily coerced and she could have been tricked or bullied into getting one. The quality of the artwork could determine how and where it was done.
    5. How the remains were dismembered may be a clue. Unfortunately the preponderance of serial murder and gangster fare in the media have made everyone believe that they know how to "dispose" of human remains. If the job were done "professionally" it could indicate the work of a farmer/rancher or a butcher by trade (e.g. someone experienced with dismembering who would do at the joints in the quickest manner possible)
    6. Both areas are so thinly populated that the killer must have suspected that there was a likelihood that the remains would be located. Even if they were the work of separate murderers (if they were indeed murders) then the people in question knew or suspected that simply leaving the remains in the open for animal scavenging and decay would be insufficient to prevent their discovery..
     
  6. giagreen

    giagreen New Member

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    The Hmong culture is actually very strong in a lot of parts of Wisconsin. There are lots of Hmong families around the area. So could she have maybe been Hmong?

    Also does anyone know if there is a picture at all of the tattoo? Or was she maybe to decomposed? I'd like to take a look at it to make my own judgment on the quality of the tattoo. If not, is there anymore info on the tattoo such as coloring or was it just a black-grey tattoo? That could give a little bit of an idea. Most coloring is done in shops, I mean it's pretty easy to tell by looking if a tattoo was done professionally or not.

    On a side note I would also just like to point out that there was in 2000 and 2001 two other unsolved murders that took place just an hour from Black River Falls. It is only IMO that they were murdered by the same person. And they looked to me to be sexually motivated.
    However, not sure if Black River Falls Jane Doe would fit the others in the manner of how they were found. The MO seems to be different. But still you never know. Killers do switch up their MO's from time to time.
    Just seems strange to me that in Wisconsin in that area there really isn't many murders at all and here we have three unsolved ones all within an hour from each other, one each year for three years in a row. Two being in the same town.
     
  7. jmix

    jmix New Member

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    The Hmong are also in Minnesota especially the Twin Cities. However, there are very few of them relative to the total population of the area, meaning that if a person from their community was missing, it seems likely that someone would notice.

    Also, if the person were Hmong, it's likely that their physique or something about their remains would have struck the coroner as perhaps being "unusual" as Southeast Asians are physically different than East Asians (ethnic Chinese, Japanese, Mongolians,etc).

    Are there any missing Hmong people in the area?
    I'm asking...
     
  8. OkieGranny

    OkieGranny New Member Staff Member Forum Coordinators

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    http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/...re-resources-to-two-cold-cases-267078511.html

     
  9. taramarie

    taramarie Member

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  10. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  11. Damarna

    Damarna Verified State Coordinator for CFSI/ Insider - Par

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    I'm glad she has her name back.
     
  12. giagreen

    giagreen New Member

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  13. pleasestandby

    pleasestandby Inactive

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    There may be a possibility that this murder is connected to the murder of Rhys Marie Pocan, 36, of Milwaukee.

    Pocan's headless, handless body was found Sept. 2, 1989, in a grassy field in the Sheboygan County Town of Lyndon, Wisconsin. She, too, was a former resident of Black River Falls, Wisconsin.

    Family Search shows a 1989 address of 1554 S. 24th St # 2, Milwaukee, WI for Pocan.


    US Search shows an address of 1510 W. Scott St., Milwaukee for Baez, who would be age 61, if alive today. DOB 22 May 1954.

    Family Search also shows a 1989 address of 2012 W Mitchell St, Milwaukee, WI for Baez. All are within blocks of each other.

    https://goo.gl/maps/XHgLl
     
  14. Montjoy

    Montjoy Inactive

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    That is interesting, pleasestandby -- but do we have any idea why either was killed? I don't want to be disrespectful or anything, but are there any convergent or divergent (or non-existent) theories here? Did either have a bad relationship with someone? Was either in a high-risk line of work? etc.
     
  15. pleasestandby

    pleasestandby Inactive

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    There isn't too much information on their background other than what is being released or what can be found online.

    Rhys Marie Pocan was last seen at 10:30 pm, August 10, 1989, at the American Indian Council on Alcoholism, 2240 W. National Ave., Milwaukee, WI. She was very drunk and agitated according to a counselor there. She was never seen after that night.

    A previous address for Rhys Marie Pocan, before Milwaukee, shows her living on Thundercloud Circle, right near the Ho-Chunk Casino in Black River Falls, two other previous addresses are listed for her in the vicinity. Julia Baez was found in the Town of Brockway, WI, which borders Black River Falls.

    The heads of both victims were never found.

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19900523&id=fyohAAAAIBAJ&sjid=5H4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=1938,8642402&hl=en

    An obituary for Rhys Pocan's sister Julie is here:

    http://www.bratleyfamilyfuneralhomes.com/fh/obituaries/obituary.cfm?o_id=583247&fh_id=12246
     
  16. pleasestandby

    pleasestandby Inactive

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  17. pleasestandby

    pleasestandby Inactive

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    Here's a map of Black River Falls, WI, which shows a previous address of Rhys Marie Pocan (before her Milwaukee address), the Ho-Chunk Casino and Red Iron Road & West Bauer Road in the Black River Falls Industrial Park, which is near where the body of Julia Baez was found.

    https://goo.gl/maps/c1krc
     
  18. pleasestandby

    pleasestandby Inactive

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    In further research, when typing in a verified previous address of 1554 S. 24th St, Milwaukee for Rhys M Pocan into Radaris.com, up came the name of J L Defoe, the same name in the obituary, Julianne "Julie" L. Peacock-DeFoe , so I'm pretty well convinced this is the correct Native American.

    https://address.radaris.com/Milwaukee+WI/24TH+ST/1554
     
  19. OkieGranny

    OkieGranny New Member Staff Member Forum Coordinators

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    From November 2015:

    http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/...ctims-daughters-speak2-351520031.html?ref=031

     
  20. vermontaigne

    vermontaigne New Member

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