Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #38

[Rubiconbob]

The only way the DA would even consider a plea is if he agreed to the maximum punishment of LWOP.

I really dont see him wanting to plea. Look at how many cases which have detailed confessions that are supported by an overwhelming about of solid evidence? Yet these kind of suspects seem to want the limelight and will plead NG.

He is very diabolical and evil but the insanity defense just wont pass judicial muster since its painfully obvious he took great steps to not be caught. This shows clearly he has met the judicial threshold standard of knowing right from wrong.

Imo so he doesnt have a leg to stand on if he claims he is mentally insane.

Being a sociopath which I believe he is... is not recognized as a mental illness by the courts when it comes to being mentally insane.

In fact if his IQ is tested I believe he will have a higher IQ than average. These kind of criminals often do.

Imo

This isn’t knocking small towns... but I’ve gone to high schools with 2400 and one with 380..

One with 2400 was hard to stay in top 10 percent... one with 380 seemed like they took curve and adjusted curriculum down .. brutally boring...

If he’s top in class in Gordon wi he might simply be average elsewhere...

If he’s top in private school of 4000 people he’s not only really bright but also has pick of full ride scholarships... this is quiz bowl team with a lot of good farm kids and nice simple people...

 

[Mistermagoo]

I may have missed some things because I haven't had time to read every single post in this thread, and I know most on here aren't really bashing LE but as far as not releasing the information on the Taurus, it is a pretty common car. They didn't have a license plate number to go on and likely didn't see well enough to get a description of the driver. There's a probability that they followed that lead privately as far as they could go with it. To examine every dark maroon or red Taurus would be a lengthy task. And putting it in the public could lead to thousands of unfounded tips. They also I believe thought the perp was someone more local. I don't know that they would have tracked him down any sooner even with that information. Hindsight is 20/20 and they may really be beating themselves up about it now behind the scenes there's probably a lot we will never know. MOO
Even looking at registered owners for it, it was registered to his sister so it probably wouldn't have raised many alarms. Again MOO. Its

He has stated he was doing trial runs, maybe someone would recall seeing it. He stated the was stopped behind her bus when he first seen her, hey I distinctly remember a car like that because it had a broken tail light and we were stopped by a school bus right in front of her house. Who knows what kind of tips would have come in and who cares if it was 6000 of them. Not bashing your post, I get it but I am on the side that says they should have released the info.

 

[Eleanor Rigby]

Snipped and bolded by me

The case *might* have been solved "immediately" or, if a BOLO had been sent out for that car, JPmay have murdered Jayme the first chance he got. We will never know.

I'm not going to bash LE for the job they did, but two things do confuse me.

1. Their response about how they weren't going to answer that when asked if Jayme had a 19-year-old boyfriend did little to settle those rumors. Instead, their response seemed to fuel the rumor mill. Why not just say "no"?

2. I know we've analyzed the crap out of it already, but I still think the press conference where they were appealing straight to Jayme was weird. I've seen hundreds of press conferences in regards to missing people, and while they didn't come right out and say anything accusatory towards Jayme, I felt that the angle they took DID kind of make it sound like Jayme could come back when she so desired. Part of me understands why they did what they did (it humanized her to the perp, if she was watching then she'd know that people were looking for her, etc.) but that, along with the refrain from calling it an "abduction", set a confusing tone.

Still, I think they did the best they could. They had an amazing response time to the house during the crime and it sounds as though he left behind very little to analyze. I don't know why they didn't put anything out about the car. That's something someone definitely needs to put to them.

Good post! I agree about how baffling not to have followed up on the Taurus. From the beginning, after it was made public that LE arrived mere minutes or seconds after the perp had fled and they discovered the bodies, I wondered why they didn't immediately put up road blocks. Aren't road blocks used anymore? I've seen them a few times in the past, in rural areas. They could have even sent a deputy in search of the Taurus, the only car they passed, as soon as they discovered the bodies. Even though LE didn't know immediately that a teen had been abducted, they knew immediately that a double homicide had just occurred. I'm sure they could ascertain from the time of the 911 call and the condition of the Closs's bodies that the shooting had just occurred. Wouldn't road blocks on the highway past their house and on the nearby roads and highways have been worth a try? Was there not enough LE in the area?

 

[bechk45]

What did he mean by casing out the place - really just driving by slowly to get a good visual of the home and surroundings?

Wouldn’t he want to know such things as:
*an alarm system
*location of exits in house
*layout of house (looking in windows during day when parents worked)
*checking/watching house to see number of occupants
*getting an idea of family’s habits and movements
*number of regular cars at house

You all may have more to add. These are basic things I would want to know if my plan was to break into a house, let alone plan on kidnapping a person out of the home.

But this is coming from the standpoint that you are a rational person. IMO the planning and execution of this crime implies that JTP was not at all rational and was not able to complete a plan. He has an overarching idea that he becomes obsessed with, planning certain aspects of the plan to minute details, but has no ability to plan out the follow through. His life in general implies that doesn't have enough foresight to see anything through. He just can't do it. He lives in pictures, wishes and wants, not reality. I think he just drove by and either there were too many people or there weren't.

 

[Tim Constas]

I agree, I believe they had a reason not to disclose the car info. It has nothing to do with incompetence or bad police work. We don't know everything so I myself will not say anything negative regarding LE

As far as that goes, the other cars of interest may have been a ruse, only if LE realized after the fact that the Taurus likely was involved. "One deputy stated it was the only vehicle he encountered. Deputy Fick reports that, while in route to the residence, he observed a vehicle that was maroon in color and what he believed to be an older style vehicle. Deputy Fick reports that, based on his training and experience, the vehicle appeared to him to be an older Ford Taurus or similar vehicle. As the vehicle was traveling east on U.S. Hwy. 8, Deputy Fick reports he was traveling west on U.S. Hwy. 8, just west of the City of Barron. Deputy Fick reports the vehicle he observed was the lone eastbound traveling vehicle he encountered. Deputy Fick observed the vehicle yield to himself and other deputies responding to the scene. Deputy Fick reports he was unable to see a front license plate and observed a black bracket in the front middle of the bumper. Deputy Fick reports he observed grey or silver trim on the vehicle." https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.tow...-5af6-b184-c01481ee956c/5c3ce2139eaef.pdf.pdf

 

[gregjrichards]

Jake Patterson's mother is 'distraught,' and 'scared to come out of her house,' in the wake of the horrifying revelations about her son's attack on the Closs house in October 15.

Speaking to DailyMail.com a neighbor who asked not to be named said: 'She's distraught. They're good people. This is just shocking.'

Mother of 21-year-old accused of kidnapping Jayme Closs is 'scared to leave home' | Daily Mail Online

 

[human]

Partial plate? ? They said no plate on the front (what their dash cam could have helped them with) and the back didn't have a license plate light. I dunno. Just tossed out an idea. I wasn't the only one who came up with it. Maybe they thought the Taurus but didn't have enough ID from cams, and were hoping one of the other cars they'd seen on the road (the Challenger and the SUV) had noticed the Taurus?

I was simply saying that if they saw the stolen plates, they would be able to id the owner of the stolen car plates.

It reminds me of the Wetterling case where info was out there but ignored. Sorry, but that Taurus was on the scene. Right there. That person could have been a witness to seeing something. They did not know it was the perp, but xertainly they knew the car was there.

They were getting info about the id’d cars from all over the US. They could have run the info as to who owned such a car in WI. The DVM has that info.

That was a big error, I feel. One that is a no brainer. That is an old junker.

And someone said that a worker at fhe cheese factory might be skeeved out by him . It freaks me out that info was not put out there.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I’m not saying you are wrong, but could you add some links/sources for these studies?

I would certainly be very interested in reading that as well since I've been reading for decades about young killers who have been both male and females.

This claim of ALl of them were abused by being neglected does not comport at all with all of the cases I've read about.

In fact many came from very good homes with supportive loving parents who were very involved in positive ways throughout their childhood..

Now in recent years I see many who were spoiled and pampered and never being told no never having to be accountable for anything they do.

Many had no rules they must abide by nor where any moral boundaries were ever set.

Imo that is why we have seen several cases in recent years where youmg killers are now murdering simply because one of their material possessions were taken away and even murdering their siblings because they dared touch one of their material possession or simply got in the way and interrupted what they were doing.

Young people are murdering for a myriad of trivial reasons now such as not wanting to do chores..not getting to do what they wanted to do and with whom.

Imo abused nor nelected children rarely murder anyone but now we seem to be seeing what I call Entitlement Young killers.

Of course some will have abuse in their history since killers like JP comes from all walks of life just like all killers do.

The ones I've read about recently weren't abused or neglected. In many cases it has been learned they were the abusive ones and its been learned that even family members were afraid of them.

Of course I suppose a link can be found but often these links can have their own agenda to sway the information. I've certainly seen those unfortunately.

Imo

 

[sumzero]

Maybe this was already mentioned, but Wisconsin requires both front and back license plates. Wouldn’t a missing front plate raise the suspicion of LE, at least in retrospect?

 

[Mistermagoo]

It’s easy to sit back now and second guess the police for what they didn’t do on the way to the scene. Second guessers have the luxury of knowing what happened in the house and the eventual outcome. The officers responding to the house knew almost nothing except for a 911 hang up call with the sound of screaming. Believe it or not in real police work this kind of call is nothing to get excited about because it happens from time to time.

Some posters are of the opinion that the police should have stopped or recorded the tag number of the red Ford. Let’s examine the option of recording the tag number. Since this car didn’t have a front tag it would have meant that police car #1, traveling at 60-70 mph, meeting the getaway car traveling at 40-50 mph, would have a closing distance of about 110 mph. Think about that. It would have taken police car #1 a minute to turn around and then maybe 2 minutes to catch up with the red Ford. Complete waste of time because 9999 times out of 10,000 the occupants of the Ford would have been Aunt Sally and her neighbor returning from church.

What about the other cars on the road going in the opposite direction? Should they all be stopped? Of course not.

Then you run the chance of a 4th Anendment issue. Let’s say the Ford is stopped with Jayme in the trunk with absolutely no probable cause. None except for the fact that it was traveling in the opposite direction of a house where (in the minds of the police) no crime had been committed. Had that been the case the entire case could have been thrown out of court due to a 4th Amendment violation. No probable cause to stop the car and as a result everything that flows from the traffic stop is inadmissible and you would have a guy walk from two murder charges and a Kidnapping charge.

The maroon Taurus was going in the opposite direction. It was pulled over on the side of the road, not traveling 40-50 mph. It was the only car that LE came across on the way to the seen. Even with the speed LE was going he was, according to the criminal complaint still able to recognize that it was a maroon Taurus that had some black thing sticking out of the front grill. Not saying that they should have pulled him over, saying we should have BOLO for it.

 

[Oakland CA]

It’s easy to sit back now and second guess the police ................

.............Then you run the chance of a 4th Anendment issue. Let’s say the Ford is stopped with Jayme in the trunk with absolutely no probable cause. None except for the fact that it was traveling in the opposite direction of a house where (in the minds of the police) no crime had been committed. Had that been the case the entire case could have been thrown out of court due to a 4th Amendment violation. No probable cause to stop the car and as a result everything that flows from the traffic stop is inadmissible and you would have a guy walk from two murder charges and a Kidnapping charge.

TBH, I'm ignorant re: the 4th Amendment so I'm just looking for what constitutes probable cause...and what doesn't.

If LE saw the Taurus pull out of the Closs' driveway, I'm assuming that would give LE probable cause but if no one saw it pull out of driveway but saw it coming towards them, 100yds from driveway, LE would not have probable cause?

Is that correct?

 

[Ragnarok]

I think Mr. Closs had one of those too. Didn't do him or his family any good!

If he had it with him and loaded it may have. If Denise had it I would hope she would of blown a hole in that 's chest. A mistake James made was looking out that door window. I wouldn't do that but my life experience is probably different than James.

The real issue is that good, none violent people, are never prepared for violence. The violent person is ready and willing to inflict harm. Good people don't expect violence and many freeze rather than flee or fight. Not that I am a violent person by any means. Rather I understand the possible threats.

That Jayme didn't freeze and stay under the bed is a testament to her moving beyond being cowered and frozen with fear. So many people freeze or surrender to fear rather than turning it around and fighting back.

 

[human]

I believe their first priority is to get to the scene of the crime. Not to stop and pull over a car for a license plate violation on the way. Crimes in progress have priority over all traffic violations. The only time they would stop a car heading away from a crime scene would be if it was acting suspicious, and according to the reports, this car was not acting suspicious.

More than likely the cops barely noticed the car. They probably saw the car when they were reviewing the dashcam videos, looking for a suspect.

Did someone say they should have stopped and look at the perp’s pulled over car? The only thing I and everyone else is asking is why they never asked the public about that car.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Even if someone in your family expresses some characteristics of mental illness, what do you suggest they should do? There is no help for uninsured people in the US. He tried to get into the military, he likely is not disabled enough to file for SSI. If a 21 year old family member can't hold down a job and seems "off" - there is almost nothing you can do. You can't even legally take their firearms. They have done nothing wrong - yet. The only thing you can do is wait for them to break the law so you can get the police involved. That's it.

Very good points, thank you for bringing them up. I believe it's natural instinct to want to blame some, especially the parents, but this was a 21 year old man <I use the term loosely> and his actions were not the responsibility of anyone except himself.

I had close, successful friends that had 2 sons. One grew up to become a physician and one became a petty criminal and drug addict who overdosed after numerous interventions and many tens of thousands of dollars in the best rehab facilities in the country. Are they to blame?

If every young person who had strange habits or quirks, no job, no initiative, and no criminal record were locked up there wouldn't be enough jails across the country to hold them. Unfortunately this is the case and I'm sorry to say it's so.

 

[Julia966]

Jake Patterson's mother is 'distraught,' and 'scared to come out of her house,' in the wake of the horrifying revelations about her son's attack on the Closs house in October 15.

Speaking to DailyMail.com a neighbor who asked not to be named said: 'She's distraught. They're good people. This is just shocking.'

Mother of 21-year-old accused of kidnapping Jayme Closs is 'scared to leave home' | Daily Mail Online

Interesting. It says he was visiting his mother when Jayme escaped, and that his mother is a school bus driver.

 

[PayrollNerd]

In regards to JP not working beyond a few days at any job. When you are on Social Security Disability Income (SSDI) as an adult, your case is reviewed periodically. One of the ways to validate your case, especially with the mental health diagnosis, is the inability to maintain employment. Recipients are given a Return to Work “ticket”. It allows them retraining, help with career matching, job counseling, etc. Repeated failures at basic self support are indicative of an underlying issue of some type. Many prisoners receive SSDI and the prison system is the org that applies for it on behalf of the prisoner to generate funding for their care.

It is much easier to obtain a disability claim if a person is a child under age 18. That is usually what Social Security Income (SSI) is for, long term medical needs, such as a child born with a serious medical condition. Note that SSI currently has a monthly max of $750.00.

SSDI is based on income so it could be more per month. In JPs case, if his parents applied for SSDI prior to age 21 he would receive 1/2 of their estimated disability amount. As an example, if the parents estimated disability amount is $1,800 monthly, JP would receive $900 monthly. That’s impossible to live on in many areas. Hence, the reason for JP to remain in housing he doesn’t pay for. This may have been the motivation for the home being paid off. By attempting to work, JP has proven is inability to do so, thus validating his claim. Is or was he gaming the system? Possibly. But guess what the prison system is going to do? Ensure his SSDI continues.

 

[bizzle2]

Good post! I agree about how baffling not to have followed up on the Taurus. From the beginning, after it was made public that LE arrived mere minutes or seconds after the perp had fled and they discovered the bodies, I wondered why they didn't immediately put up road blocks. Aren't road blocks used anymore? I've seen them a few times in the past, in rural areas. They could have even sent a deputy in search of the Taurus, the only car they passed, as soon as they discovered the bodies. Even though LE didn't know immediately that a teen had been abducted, they knew immediately that a double homicide had just occurred. I'm sure they could ascertain from the time of the 911 call and the condition of the Closs's bodies that the shooting had just occurred. Wouldn't road blocks on the highway past their house and on the nearby roads and highways have been worth a try? Was there not enough LE in the area?

I don't think road blocks wold have been a viable option. They are only about six miles from Highway 53, which is more like an interstate at that point.

With the amount of time it took to determine what happened it would have been at least thirty minutes since the 911 call by the time they were able to set up road blocks. Perp could have been 30+miles away by that point. That's way too big of an area for road blocks, especially for a sheriff's department with maybe 6-8 officers on duty at that time.

Plus, road blocks really only make sense if they are sure that a perp is in a concentrated area.

 

[chili367]

To examine every dark maroon or red Taurus would be a lengthy task. And putting it in the public could lead to thousands of unfounded tips. They also I believe thought the perp was someone more local. I don't know that they would have tracked him down any sooner even with that information. Hindsight is 20/20 and they may really be beating themselves up about it now behind the scenes there's probably a lot we will never know. MOO
Even looking at registered owners for it, it was registered to his sister so it probably wouldn't have raised many alarms. Again MOO. Its

I'd want to know the thought process more than anything.

1) They weren't, understandably, focused on Jayme for about an hour. They were way behind for any means of escape except walking.
2) The car ID was a best guess, maybe from dash cam, probably not
3) Dash cam or not, it was likely several hours, if not longer, before this was examined in detail
4) Very common car style/color. "Maybe a late-model Taurus" fits a lot of cars
5) No tag
6) Concern of spooking the perp

I can see the reasoning on both sides. I'd really like to hear it from the horse's mouth.

 

[bellyup]

Except that by all accounts, there was nothing overtly wrong with JP. He's not schizophrenic (and schizophrenics are not normally violent anyway), he wasn't hurt or abused, he didn't fall through cracks in the system. He's quiet and disengaged, but nothing alarmed anyone about him and there was no reason to put him in a cell. That's the scariest part about him, the complete lack of warning that something horrible is going on inside.

With respect, I don’t think we know that he wasn’t schizophrenic. I don’t think we know he was not hurt or abused or that he didn’t fall through any cracks.

There’s still very little known about and his family. The few reports from schoolmates have been very conflicting. So it’s sheer speculation (not fact) that no one was alarmed about him. It seems to me the only people we’ve heard of that have encountered him in recent years is his family (dad, grandparents) and they aren’t talking.

 

[Ibiz]

It’s easy to sit back now and second guess the police for what they didn’t do on the way to the scene. Second guessers have the luxury of knowing what happened in the house and the eventual outcome. The officers responding to the house knew almost nothing except for a 911 hang up call with the sound of screaming. Believe it or not in real police work this kind of call is nothing to get excited about because it happens from time to time.

Some posters are of the opinion that the police should have stopped or recorded the tag number of the red Ford. Let’s examine the option of recording the tag number. Since this car didn’t have a front tag it would have meant that police car #1, traveling at 60-70 mph, meeting the getaway car traveling at 40-50 mph, would have a closing distance of about 110 mph. Think about that. It would have taken police car #1 a minute to turn around and then maybe 2 minutes to catch up with the red Ford. Complete waste of time because 9999 times out of 10,000 the occupants of the Ford would have been Aunt Sally and her neighbor returning from church.

What about the other cars on the road going in the opposite direction? Should they all be stopped? Of course not.

Then you run the chance of a 4th Anendment issue. Let’s say the Ford is stopped with Jayme in the trunk with absolutely no probable cause. None except for the fact that it was traveling in the opposite direction of a house where (in the minds of the police) no crime had been committed. Had that been the case the entire case could have been thrown out of court due to a 4th Amendment violation. No probable cause to stop the car and as a result everything that flows from the traffic stop is inadmissible and you would have a guy walk from two murder charges and a Kidnapping charge.

Falcon500, I think the question people are asking is: why the Sheriff didn't asked the public for information about a red Ford Taurus ? Not why the deputies didnt pull the car over on the way to the crime scene. The only thing I can think of: is that the FBI didnt want to spook Patterson in to murdering Jayme, since they were so sure that she was still alive; which in my mind, would make sense.

As another thought: my question is - why none of the deputies did a BOLO, or search for the Taurus, once they realized they were looking at a double homicide, with no weapons on scene? Out in those woods Falcon500, seeing ANY car on the road at that time of night would be unusual. It's not like the city.