Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #40

[PrairieWind]

I've now got an image of JP going through boot as Vincent D'Onofrio from Full Metal Jacket.

I see him more as Psycho from Stripes.

 

[moonlessnight]

I have seen very clear ASPD patients DX'd as psychosis unspecified. This is dangerous in my state bc they get released from jail after assault/arson etc. charges to psych hospital and then to a less restrictive order and are free in the community. Then they try to place them in group homes near schools. totally messed up.

I don't know. I'm not an expert either but anti-social personality disorder is more than just problems with norms and fitting in. It's really just the DSM term for psychopath or sociopath from what I understand.

I don't want to contradict Prairie, but they're known for harming others:

Overview
Antisocial personality disorder, sometimes called sociopathy, is a mental condition in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others. People with antisocial personality disorder tend to antagonize, manipulate or treat others harshly or with callous indifference. They show no guilt or remorse for their behavior.
Antisocial personality disorder - Symptoms and causes

Symptoms

• Disregard for society's laws
• Violation of the physical or emotional rights of others
• Lack of stability in job and home life
• Irritability and aggressiveness
• Lack of remorse
• Consistent irresponsibility
• Recklessness, impulsivity
• Deceitfulness
• A childhood diagnosis (or symptoms consistent with) conduct disorder

Antisocial Personality Disorder | Psychology Today

Symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder
Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) is diagnosed when a person’s pattern of antisocial behavior has occurred since age 15 (although only adults 18 years or older can be diagnosed with this disorder) and consists of the majority of these symptoms:

• Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
• Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
• Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
• Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
• Reckless disregard for safety of self or others
• Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations
• Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

Antisocial Personality Disorder Symptoms

But something one of our verified mental health pros said on the Watts family threads was that the diagnoses in the DSM were created for insurance billing purposes and that they aren't always reflective of reality! That blew my mind.

She was explaining that many or most people don't fit into neat, diagnostic categories as much as our minds insist that they must.

It really opened my eyes. I like fitting things into boxes. I liked my universe organized.

But apparently the reality is that few perps will be able to be precisely categorized. There will be cross over and missing characteristics.

Interesting.

 

[moonlessnight]

when did JP pass cops prior to the crime?

Reading along as usual and the topics are jumping around a bit today so here are a couple random thoughts I have but no real quotes to jump off of:

1 - It just occurred to me that at the start of the crime JP and the cops passed by each other and at the end of the crime the same thing happened. That's crazy.

2 - Just a guess but I think JP would have voluntarily spilled if he had already had a "successful" crime while he was proudly giving the details of this one after his arrest. JMO tho.

 

[Rubiconbob]

What about the Marines though? The only reason he didn’t quit after a day or two, is because it doesn’t work like that.

His employment history forms a pattern, one that shows incredible immaturity and issues with authority.

I think this is a direct reflection of him, and not anything to do with prior plots.

I can see quiting jenni o in one day... especially if your just there to kill turkeys..or clean out guts..

The cheese one is bizarre..and sets pattern
I think y’all are correct... he’s doing minimum to keep getting disability check or
Something odd...

To be honest he would make a good GameStop employee... enthusiasm for first person killer games wouldn’t seem odd at all...

 

[kc1023]

when did JP pass cops prior to the crime?

...while Jayme was in the trunk of his car.

 

[SeekingJana]

he appears to have lived an isolated life. did he have a circle other than rare family visits? would anyone notice anything in his life being different?

I think we are agreeing that he likely had no social friends.. was isolated. Likely all his interactions with family were for personal gain in some way. NOT affection. Tangible things he needed, like the leftovers to take home to eat.

 

[moonlessnight]

that was after the crime.

...while Jayme was in the trunk of his car.

 

[DizzyB]

I still wonder if it was about taking Jayme, or removing the most important people in her life so in his own warped mind, she would look to him as the person she was closest to. I think he could have abducted her off the street more easily. Why was it necessary to storm into a house and murder two people, breaking down doors and taping Jayme up before he took her? I would love to hear from someone who was in boot camp with this monster. What’s the real deal with him washing out. And who supported him. Who paid the gas and electric, gas and car insurance, food.

 

[Mom24]

Hi, longtime reader on the site. I can't seem to find anywhere that shows the actual date of employment at Jennie-O. We know it was 3 years ago, but his brief stint in the USMC was also 3 years ago. Wondering if he has done this before, and if there may be a pattern to employment/lost employment and victim hunting. I would be curious to see if there are any missing girls (perhaps even found deceased/cold cases) from within a few hours driving distance of Gordon that went missing shortly after his employment at Jennie-O, and/or sometime shortly after USMC exit date of October 20, 2015.

I did do a search on NAMUS but didn't find anything. He certainly may have done some things after returning from USMC, but I didn't find any abductions that looked like they might be attributed to him.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

.

Is this different from the Criminal Complaint? If so, wonder where it can be found.

I honestly don't know. It could be one of any documents by anyone. Just posted to show things are happening behind the scenes.

 

[Seattle1]

I’m curious about his jobs being so far from the cabin where JC was held captive. Was jtp commuting 1 1/2 each way for a minimum wage job? Or was he living somewhere else before he decided to abduct JC. I’m curious weather jtp was in fact living in the cabin after all his family had left? Or had it become more of a vacation cabin/ secondary residence for the PP family. I think i would not be surprised if jtp moved into the cabin as he was planning the abduction under the ruse to his father that he would be fixing it up in exchange for staying there. Moo

Actually, there's limited employment opportunity in/around Gordon. It was reported earlier that his Dad would leave the cabin at 4AM to commute to work. Also, at the time of JP's arrest, he was reportedly using his Mom/Step-Dad's residence as his legal address-- most recently for voter registration. I recall her home reported as 60 miles and/or an hour away from the cabin. However, to my knowledge, there have been no reports of him living there. MOO

ETA: Mom resides in Haugen, WI --per DM

Jayme Closs: Mother of man accused of kidnap is 'scared to leave home' | Daily Mail Online

 

[TCIntriguedIN30]

you're an introvert. antisocial does not mean not social. It refers to *social* as in society - anti-human would be a better term. it means actively against people. not just avoidant.

Thats true, I was just thinking it doesnt matter what kind of area you are from or living in some people are just different. Alot of people and kids from about the age of 10-25 have no social skills anymore, my daughter is 20 and struggles to have face to face or phone conversations with people she doesn't know mainly and some she does. She would prefer to text and text generally shows no emotion or context. She gets anxiety over it.

 

[moonlessnight]

I'm not being difficult. I'm trying to clarify. passing cops prior to the crime (which is what was claimed) is different than after it was complete.

It was at the "beginning" moments into the crime as he was fleeing and then drove by the cops again at the "end" during her rescue. I'm not sure why you're being difficult, it seems pretty clear what I meant but it's fine.

 

[PrairieWind]

I still wonder if it was about taking Jayme, or removing the most important people in her life so in his own warped mind, she would look to him as the person she was closest to. I think he could have abducted her off the street more easily. Why was it necessary to storm into a house and murder two people, breaking down doors and taping Jayme up before he took her? I would love to hear from someone who was in boot camp with this monster. What’s the real deal with him washing out. And who supported him. Who paid the gas and electric, gas and car insurance, food.

I think it was about taking Jayme. Maybe he really wanted to kill, certainly possible. But I think the main purpose was A) take Jayme, and B) kill the parents to make her totally afraid of him and easier to control and to give her the feeling that there was nothing to go home to. The cold ruthlessness of the killings is still shocking to me though. Especially the mother. He didn't have to kill her to get away with Jayme. No empathy, ZERO.

 

[tnith]

I have seen very clear ASPD patients DX'd as psychosis unspecified. This is dangerous in my state bc they get released from jail after assault/arson etc. charges to psych hospital and then to a less restrictive order and are free in the community. Then they try to place them in group homes near schools. totally messed up.

Agree that criminal justice system shouldn't be used as a tool to diagnose/treat perps.
In your experience is this just low funding revolving door style pattern, or something else?

Highly concerning that there is motivation to reduce and remove that portion of the population from inmates; shouldn't matter 'why' a crime was committed, as that it Has been committed.

 

[moonlessnight]

I agree. either he wasn't clever, capable, or creative enough to abduct her in a less violent way (I hate to use those words in regards to that crime), or there was more purpose to killing the parents.

I still wonder if it was about taking Jayme, or removing the most important people in her life so in his own warped mind, she would look to him as the person she was closest to. I think he could have abducted her off the street more easily. Why was it necessary to storm into a house and murder two people, breaking down doors and taping Jayme up before he took her? I would love to hear from someone who was in boot camp with this monster. What’s the real deal with him washing out. And who supported him. Who paid the gas and electric, gas and car insurance, food.

 

[moonlessnight]

this is psychiatrists and doctors who are not trained to recognize psychopaths.

Agree that criminal justice system shouldn't be used as a tool to diagnose/treat perps.
In your experience is this just low funding revolving door style pattern, or something else?

Highly concerning that there is motivation to reduce and remove that portion of the population from inmates; shouldn't matter 'why' a crime was committed, as that it Has been committed.

 

[moonlessnight]

as a victim advocate, I totally agree. they want to close down wings of the psych hospital so they are releasing these people to the community. SO wrong.

Agree that criminal justice system shouldn't be used as a tool to diagnose/treat perps.
In your experience is this just low funding revolving door style pattern, or something else?

Highly concerning that there is motivation to reduce and remove that portion of the population from inmates; shouldn't matter 'why' a crime was committed, as that it Has been committed.

 

[Rubiconbob]

My husband managed a Game Stop for years and once a month we host game nights at a local cafe. It takes a lot more commitment and people skills than this guy seems to have. And yeah, even gamers find other gamers odd sometimes.

I know local GameStop managers by name, most are great, especially with nephews flipping machines every 18 months..

if his only activity is online computer game, that’s odd, bizarre, but y’all know better than most, there are people that make money playing only COD, countersrike, WOW, Fortnite, FIFA, and others.

Stunning if he played game on computer a lot he wouldn’t move into social circles, most games u need tips, or trade weapons.
Most people I’ve met that play even one game only ...have 8/10 people they play with.

 

[pepper 34]

When starting to skid, you do not put on your brakes. You steer into the skid not against.

I have a friend who just became LE in MN. He posted pics of their training on a frozen lake in MN. There were cones on the ice so I imagine they make some kind of obstacles to steer around on rhe ice.

Northern Wisconsin can have ice from October through May. The biggest nightmare is black ice. Total surprise.

There are many rivers in WI with bridges over them. One of the most dangerous things are bridges as the difference in temperature between the water, air and road makes black ice. That would slow them down as well.

People in the north all have to learn about driving on ice as there are so many months of it

I grew up in a New England state where snow and ice on the roads in winter was a given. I guess I should have elaborated when I suggested slowing down once you have a skid on ice. I'm aware stepping on the brakes is the worst thing you can do. A slower speed is easily accomplished simply by taking you foot off your gas pedal... and then, once past the ice, remaining at a slower speed until road conditions improve as in, for example, you are seeing a clear road surface instead of ice patches or snow that can hide ice. What I have bolded was the purpose of my comment and not to address the art of maneuvering through an ice skid. My comment was directed at someone complaining that LE didn't drive fast enough to the rescue scene.
(Your information is valuable though and I appreciate you taking the time to write it.)