Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #41

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by JerseyGirl, Oct 15, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. The Dude

    The Dude Tying the room together

    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    5,350
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Ok, but if your theory were correct, then Fitzgerald’s statements about this car make even less sense!
     
    compass, Subiechik21, human and 5 others like this.


  2. Confusion

    Confusion Creative Spelling Expert

    Messages:
    4,889
    Likes Received:
    5,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If the detective hadn't mentioned it to anyone because it didn't seem suspicious at the time, there'd be no way for anyone else to even know it existed. MOO
     
  3. sumzero

    sumzero Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,232
    Likes Received:
    2,825
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Also missing the front plate which, in Wisconsin, would be rare since a front plate is required.
     
  4. Confusion

    Confusion Creative Spelling Expert

    Messages:
    4,889
    Likes Received:
    5,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I never said anything about the case really made sense, just that it might explain (part of) it.
     
    Subiechik21, 1987, Jim_M and 2 others like this.
  5. Andreee

    Andreee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,422
    Likes Received:
    10,987
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I firmly think that LE should have shared the information about the Taurus with the public at large, as there would've been more eyes looking out for it. Instead, the public was told to look out for 2 other vehicles that were a point of interest. The benefits IMO outweighed the risk of the perp finding out they were on the lookout for the said vehicle and disposing of it.
     
  6. sumzero

    sumzero Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,232
    Likes Received:
    2,825
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, I agree that clarification would be nice. ;) The changing stories could be motivated by CYA. But who knows?
     
  7. Confusion

    Confusion Creative Spelling Expert

    Messages:
    4,889
    Likes Received:
    5,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The problem with that is that his Taurus wasn't missing the front plate before that night, and he probably put the correct plates back on it once he got home. His car wouldn't have fit the description once that was done. MOO
     
    chili367, teedie2, libraryg and 10 others like this.
  8. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,506
    Likes Received:
    8,221
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I still wonder if they brought in their psych. profilers, or if it even would have helped.
    I DO think the FBI was behind a lot of the keywords and things in some of the press conferences. ALL of the aunts' joint appearance seemed very FBI psych. expert vs local sheriff, especially the visual cues, which I don't think I've EVER seen before in any family statement when a person was missing.

    The sweatshirt for both warmth and a sign that they had her things safe and waiting for her return, the Starbucks full bottle as a sign of special treats and good nourishment ( to a teen) when she returned- also that they didn't forget what she loved- a parental type of trait which would have helped her a great deal, not an empty bottle, and of course, Molly, who behaved so perfectly in the spotlight with the noises and strangers.

    There is so much to be learned from this case, and I do not mean " at the expense of the victim" but about how a person who is believed to be a first time double violent murderer and also very separate crime of kidnapping a young girl at gunpoint and holding her in what I believe were very substandard conditions for her 88 days.

    There is much to be learned about Jayme's frame of mind and her escape attempts and her ability and strength of will and character to keep trying to escape, and then the success phase, which we DO know a bit about from the Ariel Castro survivors who engineered their escape after so many YEARS, We believe the child victim in that case was the impetus for the door banging and getting the neighbor's attention, but still, they did remarkable things to get help.
    Jayme's confidence in her long- distance running may have given her the courage to leave in ice and snow and wearing JP's shoes, we believe, and cold and shivering.

    Every one of us has special inner strengths. Every one reading this has survived some fear, loss, disappointment or anxiety, for such is the stuff of life if you've lived long enough.

    The human spirit in a person who is not fragmented into jagged pieces like JP can survive so much. We do it in different ways, not the same at all, which is also amazing to me. Some people will look at the long term outcome, " the big picture" such as wanting to have a family one day, or getting that degree they want, while others will focus on minute to minute situations changing and evolving, evaluating and seeking the exact moment to act in amazingly positive ways, then DOING IT.
    One thing I do when I'm worried or anxious about something is to ask " OK, what's the worst outcome, what's the best outcome, and what is the likely outcome?"
    If I'm pressed for time to think it over, I just ask " What's the worst that can happen to me if I go here, or do this, or don't do that?"
    Usually, the WORST isn't bad at all, and I end up laughing at my anxiety or worry.

    There is a book about surviving trauma in the face of great odds which helped me understand how we use our past, our present, and the future we want to survive. It's " When Hell Was In Session" by the late U.S. Senator and Vietnam War POW Jeremiah Denton.
    He lived while many others in the same conditions died. It wasn't that he was lucky, it was that he had an extremely good ability to adapt to the changing torture, to the changing isolation levels. They could not break his will, his spirit.

    Jayme has a special strong spirit as well. I imagine her parents instilled strength of character as a virtue in her. She likely used a lot of lessons she had been taught, maybe without realizing all of them. I think this is true of Elizabeth Smart as well. Strong family lessons and seeing the parents' examples in life.

    HER WILL TO SURVIVE DID NOT FAIL HER.
     
  9. sumzero

    sumzero Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,232
    Likes Received:
    2,825
    Trophy Points:
    113
    True. But LE had no way of knowing that. If the killer had been local, someone might’ve remembered seeing a neighbor driving a Taurus w/o a front plate. But the word never got out.
     
  10. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    48,846
    Likes Received:
    188,620
    Trophy Points:
    113
    (Raises hand to weigh in)

    When Jessica Ridgeway went missing and also when she was found (well part of her :( ), and when LE told us flat out there was a very dangerous active predator whom they think is likely local and close ( :( ), and for the community to “remain vigilant” (as I’ve said before in other cases,imo when LE uses the word “vigilant” that’s a red flag); anyway.

    This was a serious situation obviously and we were all scared to death (for the kids). I’ve said before it was like being in a real life horror movie... :(

    If course anything can happen at anywhere anytime. As mentioned above no amount awareness would have saved Jayme from this type of abduction (in your home :( ).

    It was a fine line, how we communicate with the kids. We want them to know how serious this is to be aware, not run off alone, sigh having a hard time saying f what I’m saying.

    Here it is. I basically had to scare them silly but not traumatize then. That was a fine line.

    :(

    My point I guess is that awareness is always important.

    Ps:

    O/T, please see this post from the Watts thread. Jessica’s family reached out to donate stuffed animals left at her memorial since blankets are being made from the stuffed animals at the Watts memorial. Quote in progress

    (Wow that was a hard post to get out.)
     
  11. The Dude

    The Dude Tying the room together

    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    5,350
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I have a feeling the Taurus questions will continue to be raised both here and elsewhere. In the meantime, I demand to know two things:

    1) Where are the stairs in that freaking house?

    2) What IS that goop on the patio door?

    I will not rest until there’s an official statement about these things. :mad: :D
     
    Traymar, TRB, Cailyn and 16 others like this.
  12. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,506
    Likes Received:
    8,221
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Every thread started for Jayme has this complaint link posted on the first page with the messages from the WS Mgt. team.
    In case anyone forgets, it's there on " page 1" of every thread. :cool:
     
  13. 1&2&3

    1&2&3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,732
    Likes Received:
    7,838
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is understandable to me WHY they didn’t pull JP over as they were on their way to an unknown disturbance at the Closs address.

    However, the deputy had such a good recall of passing the Taurus, why didn’t they run a check on that model among all the other investigations being run? A major slip up?!

    Remember JP had switched license plates so the plate number would have been useless if they had it.

    IMO, not running a check on the Taurus is about the same as JP not planning on how he would keep Jayme after he abducted her. No one is perfect and these were each major failures on both sides.

    Thank goodness Jayme had the strength, courage, and willpower to make an escape. She is the hero!
     
  14. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,506
    Likes Received:
    8,221
    Trophy Points:
    113
    1) Pull down stairs like we have to a second attic?
    2) The dog licked it?
    Not official by any means of course.;)
     
  15. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    48,846
    Likes Received:
    188,620
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I know from exp phone alerts for our first cia CBI before it hits federal (Amber Alert on my phone, I’m on it, will thread)

    I know from experience sometimes I get the alert first, CBI sends out local phone first before it appears on official AA site, not always

    AA gov site in progress)

    Eternity Duran - Female, 11 years old ... Unity Duran - Female, 12 ... Last seen Jan 18, 2019 in Northglenn, CO ... Red 2006 Dodge Ram 1500 #UOL507 (CO)
    0 secs ago – National Center for Missing & Exploited Children

    Thread in progress
     
    Traymar, Subiechik21, Ellmau and 2 others like this.
  16. 24Brix

    24Brix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    3,571
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I did the math and here’s what I came up with for an explanation. MOO only, of course.

    LE is responding on straight road to a 911 call. Let’s assume they’re doing a minimum of 70 mph and JP is slowing and yielding to them at 35 mph. (Typical in my area, at least. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out LE was going faster than that.) That’s at least 105 mph combined which is 154 feet per second. In two seconds, JP’s car went from being 154 feet in front of them to 154 feet behind them. That’s very little time to form a detailed opinion of the vehicle. I also suspect the oncoming headlights’ glare into the camera might make it hard to definitively identify a vehicle from dash cam footage as well. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that an “orange or red Charger or similar” (quotes mine) was the best they could do until after the arrest. But that upon comparison of JP’s vehicle with the dash cam footage they were able to make a match with confidence.

    Again, just MOO.
     
  17. The Dude

    The Dude Tying the room together

    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    5,350
    Trophy Points:
    93
    It doesn’t hurt to have an isolated link posted once in a while. At this point, page 1 is like sorting through the Library of Congress! :)
     
    Katharine, TRB, GarAndTeed and 12 others like this.
  18. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

    Messages:
    25,294
    Likes Received:
    273,973
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'd have to go back and check but I believe the officer's statements filed with the criminal complaint are sworn statements. [Confirmed].

    Perhaps a law enforcement officer can chime in here and answer the following:

    Do you write up your daily reports before your shift ends?

    What steps are taken to prove your investigative records are contemporaneous, and not drafted, and/or altered, after the fact?

    MOO

    ETA: Confirming that Criminal Complaint was Subscribed and Sworn to. I also hope this puts to rest that Deputy Fink's account of the older Ford Taurus was in fact his statement on 10/15/18, and not his written account after the arrest of JP.

    Just before the signatures of the District Attorney, and Law Enforcement Detective, the Criminal Complaint further includes the following:

    The statements made by the law enforcement officers can be considered truthful, credible, and reliable because of the positions of trust they hold. The statements of the citizen witnesses can be considered truthful, credible, and reliable because they are made by citizen witnesses. The statements of the defendant(s) can be considered truthful, credible, and reliable to the extent to which they are admissions against interests [CC pg 12 of 12]
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
    Traymar, Gardener1850, human and 8 others like this.
  19. Pretty Go Pale

    Pretty Go Pale Gin and Juice Boxes for ILoveChili and The Dude

    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    Trophy Points:
    93
    My take was that LE had no idea what vehicles might be involved. The "Challenger" and "SUV" showed up on more than one vid around the right time, so LE went public. Some argue that LE was using misdirection -- and knew it was the Taurus, not the other cars -- that was more likely to be involved. And thusly, decided not to go public on the Taurus. I don't buy it, but it's plausible. If that was the case, LE -- to set things straight and not look bad -- will tell the world.
     
  20. 1&2&3

    1&2&3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,732
    Likes Received:
    7,838
    Trophy Points:
    113
    At 13 she is still a growing girl, I would imagine. Therefore, it might even be good to buy the next size up. She will have new clothes to grow into. JMO.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice