Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #42

[Seattle1]

He also could have did a job for a day or two and said ouch, I fell. All sorts of possibilities... It would be off subject but it might surprise you how many kids learn these kinds of things that come from very good families and were good students and just where do they learn it--like just let a car rear end me... I have overheard a conversation or two in my lifetime at a graduation party or two. And was quite shocked, particularly by the kids that were discussing it. One had to wonder how much looking for a free ride has to do with some things... Not that I am any expert--I have learned with hindsight that kids always are being taught things and nowadays have new apps and such that parents cannot even keep up with.

*has* not had

No doubt that happens -- I've heard it too. I'm not that old but I knew things had really changed when govt said 26 year olds can be dependents on their parents health plans. As JP reportedly only had 2 jobs, not exceeding 48 hours, in +-36 months, I don't think he was claiming workers compensation/job injury. He most likely had some acceptable "phobia" he was reliant upon. MOO

 

[deugirtni]

Aside from feeling terrible for what JC endured, I also feel so terrible for the perp's parents and those who loved him. I can't imagine the grief. From the sounds of it, his father showed up at JP's arraignment and was very shaken and upset, was crying and apologized for not being able to talk to reporters.
At the same time, I find it less than honorable that he tried to sit on the prosecution side of the courtroom (although maybe he lacked the knowledge that the two 'sides' usually take opposite sides of the courtroom?). I feel like there needs to be some kind of explanation for how long and why this young man (and his brother - and where was the sister) had been living alone without any parental guidance, support (other than financial), or supervision. I don't know enough, haven't been able to keep up with the reading, and it sounds like rumors are afloat and we don't really know the real story there. (ie some say both parents left their kids to their own devices when they got divorced, while other reports apparently stated the father remained until sometime later; a neighbour apparently reported that the kids had been in fostercare, etc.)
Isn't there a way for parents such as the parents of JP to both be aghast and apologetic to the victim for what their son did, while at the same time still supporting their son somehow? Do parents just dump their kids when they do something horrible? I followed the Tim Bosma case in Canada, and the killer's mother was (and continues to be) in complete denial.. the exact opposite, it seems, of the situation in this case. There's got to be an unhappy medium in there somewhere? jmo

 

[Rubiconbob]

That makes far more sense. But they kind of go hand in hand. It is still looking for an easy ride and no supervisor and I belong at the top of the place that hires me, my boss doesn't know ****, OR of looking for a free and easy ride. And most parents for the last what, 20 years, can say every child says I am not going to be a burger flipper (at 16 when told to get a part time job) and I am not going to college in our home area. I will bet though many people can identify with it. Or I am not going to school for something like CPA or nurse, I want to be an artist, an MSM anchor. I guess it has always went on to a point but look at the stuff nowadays.... And then there is the military thing... I think I have been having a day of thinking out loud

yep, and most look back at burger jobs, waiting tables, or washing cars, as fantastic times where everyone laughs makes good weekend money...

There’s plenty of people that wait tables or cook that end up running the joint.... or at the least have fun doing it.

 

[ilovechili]

No doubt that happens -- I've heard it too. I'm not that old but I knew things had really changed when govt said 26 year olds can be dependents on their parents health plans. As JP reportedly only had 2 jobs, not exceeding 48 hours, in +-36 months, I don't think he was claiming workers compensation/job injury. He most likely had some acceptable "phobia" he was reliant upon. MOO

That is just as likely or more so than anything. I have seen people go through years being truly disabled for instance, and about to lose everything, when they worked their but* off for an employer and throughout their life and still waiting for a hearing, then someone not even 20 get it as easy as pie.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Aside from feeling terrible for what JC endured, I also feel so terrible for the perp's parents and those who loved him. I can't imagine the grief. From the sounds of it, his father showed up at JP's arraignment and was very shaken and upset, was crying and apologized for not being able to talk to reporters.
At the same time, I find it less than honorable that he tried to sit on the prosecution side of the courtroom (although maybe he lacked the knowledge that the two 'sides' usually take opposite sides of the courtroom?). I feel like there needs to be some kind of explanation for how long and why this young man (and his brother - and where was the sister) had been living alone without any parental guidance, support (other than financial), or supervision. I don't know enough, haven't been able to keep up with the reading, and it sounds like rumors are afloat and we don't really know the real story there. (ie some say both parents left their kids to their own devices when they got divorced, while other reports apparently stated the father remained until sometime later; a neighbour apparently reported that the kids had been in fostercare, etc.)
Isn't there a way for parents such as the parents of JP to both be aghast and apologetic to the victim for what their son did, while at the same time still supporting their son somehow? Do parents just dump their kids when they do something horrible? I followed the Tim Bosma case in Canada, and the killer's mother was (and continues to be) in complete denial.. the exact opposite, it seems, of the situation in this case. There's got to be an unhappy medium in there somewhere? jmo

Agreed, think we’re all reserving final judgement... till specifics are known... you could fill in a lot of picture by simply knowing what dad did for living last 10 yrs...

If he’s working 60/80 hours a week building homes trying to take care of 3 kids, ex wife, and do best he can, that’s sad all way around... nobody really knows what dad did, what went on at home last 9 years.

 

[shorty42404]

Hi! Haven’t posted in years but have lurked off and on when checking up with cases of interest.

I’m wondering what other charges may come up, if not sexual assault, then what is the motive (and I am hoping upon hope that is not the case for JC—what she went through is horrific enough)?

It seems like, from what I’m hearing in the news, the perp possibly has mental illness and IMO was/is possessed with evil. Maybe he had been enabled, too much time on his hands... ? Curious about the family dynamics as well. Some of his story is questionable. It seems too random. Another thing I’ve thought about is the fact that his name starts with a Ja, so does Jayme’s and her dad’s. Did he look up J names after his, for fun? Probably far fetched. Just a thought. I’m hoping the whole truth comes out, justice is served, and JC and her family heal from this. I can only imagine what this sweet girl has seen and endured. My heart goes out to her & her fam for sure

 

[Subiechik21]

Here is a short video about how a local basketball team reacted to the news that Jayme had been found during their game.
Ladysmith basketball game stops when Closs announcement made

 

[Seattle1]

delete - wrong thread.

 

[MemPat]

That makes far more sense. But they kind of go hand in hand. It is still looking for an easy ride and no supervisor and I belong at the top of the place that hires me, my boss doesn't know ****, OR of looking for a free and easy ride. And most parents for the last what, 20 years, can say every child says I am not going to be a burger flipper (at 16 when told to get a part time job) and I am not going to college in our home area. I will bet though many people can identify with it. Or I am not going to school for something like CPA or nurse, I want to be an artist, an MSM anchor. I guess it has always went on to a point but look at the stuff nowadays.... And then there is the military thing... I think I have been having a day of thinking out loud

ETA so with the supervisory thing, I have no work experience and mom and dad I am not going to work or I quit because I know more than they do and I should start at the top (in one's own mind, not said to mom and dad necessarily). Smarter, entitled in his own mind, insecure, or manipulative with bigger problems he has reason to have? Hard to say.

Or it could just be that he stayed up all night playing video games and didn't want to get up on Day #3.

 

[MemPat]

The ability to let go of a thought can be the difference in being "normal" and being mentally ill. IMO JTP had all kinds of time on his hands and if I remember correctly was a big reader. It wouldn't surprise me if he read one book about kidnapping repeatedly and ran the fantasy over and over in his mind, couldn't let it go. MOO

 

[Wrenny]

Is this a valid source? Some stuff I hadn't seen before.
Jayme Closs' Alleged Kidnapper Was A Loner Who Lived In A 'Time Warp,' Says Ex-Friend

 

[Mom24]

It is my understanding that if he was kicked out for medical reasons (he wasn’t), he’d be eligible for VA medical care.

With the discharge being what it was, I don’t think it makes him eligible for even that.

He certainly would not be receiving any disability compensation.

Actually he wouldn't be eligible for VA benefits, not if you leave due to early separation.

 

[deugirtni]

Is this a valid source? Some stuff I hadn't seen before.
Jayme Closs' Alleged Kidnapper Was A Loner Who Lived In A 'Time Warp,' Says Ex-Friend

I hate it when random people who knew someone in the news, come out of the woodwork with whatever wild stories which can never be substantiated. One minute the killer is a loner, never into girls, and next minute he had a girlfriend for 4 months who speaks about how creepy he was, but it was back in 2011, 7 years earlier, when he was only 14? How does MSM even find these people to interview?

 

[Quill]

I have to keep reminding myself that JP is only 21. I believe that he was introvert, quiet, immature, and more significant signs of ASPD (most likely around puberty) went unnoticed by family when his divorcing parents were struggling, overwhelmed, with another child's criminal behavior.

From all reports, JP was a good student, and from the comments by school admin, I also don't think parents were getting calls from school about discipline issues with JP. I also think JP's dream of joining USMC, and his actual enlistment, fueled parents denial. However, I do believe there was a dose of reality 3 years ago when JP was discharged from USMC -- confirmation to his parents and/or family that something really isn't right with JP. I also believe JP, very skilled at manipulation, immediately went into victim mode with his parents, and has been playing that card ever since. If anything, these parents have been living afraid that JP would hurt himself, and not others. MOO

ITA. If there were ever a kid that was easier to slip under the radar, this is him. Everyone else in his life evidently had other concerns. Whatever the red flags with him might have been, they went either went unnoticed or someone couldn't cope with more dysfunction so they had their head in the sand. In every family the sum total of experiences and upbringing can be the same or similar with very different results due to each child having their own personality and with it very different responses.

 

[Mom24]

ITA. If there were ever a kid that was easier to slip under the radar, this is him. Everyone else in his life evidently had other concerns. Whatever the red flags with him might have been, they went either went unnoticed or someone couldn't cope with more dysfunction so they had their head in the sand. In every family the sum total of experiences and upbringing can be the same or similar with very different results due to each child having their own personality and with it very different responses.

It's normalization. When you interact with someone on a daily basis or live with them, you normalize their abnormal behavior. Grandma leaves the stove on and shouldn't be living on her own, but the family says she's just "slipping". I'm sure the kids he went to school with didn't interact with him much, they couldn't have put it into words back then other than that there was something weird about him.
The other thing is, we all are led to believe people can be set on the right path and they can be rehabilitated. Sadly, it's not true. Some people can't be fixed and some people can't be rehabilitated. I don't think he slipped through any cracks, I think he lived the cracks and tried to be normal enough to be left alone.

 

[Mom24]

I can't remember who, but there was a discussion about the dog and why he didn't kill it. I think it's simple, he killed things that got in the way of his objective-abducting Jayme and having no witnesses. No need to shoot the dog. It couldn't talk and it couldn't stop him.

 

[Quill]

Here is a short video about how a local basketball team reacted to the news that Jayme had been found during their game.
Ladysmith basketball game stops when Closs announcement made

I believe I read that her cousin is on this team and her mother had to come tell her that Jayme had been found!

 

[Laughing]

Here is a study (from 2007, but likely still relevant) about discharge during Basic Training of Marines. Talks about age, level of fitness beforehand, ethnicity, etc. I'm not sure we can guess that it was mental issues. It must have been disappointing for him, whatever it was.
The pdf file is attached, but it came from this link: https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a496815.pdf

A young man I knew in high school wanted to be a Marine as long as he could remember. He went through all the early enlistment procedures during high school, left for 8 weeks of basic shortly after graduation in 1977.

He was driven & successful -- until at 7 1/2 weeks, the Corp decided that he needed too much vision correction after all.

Somehow, I don't think (JMHO) this is what happened to JLP.

 

[DizzyB]

If the dog hadn’t barked, what was the plan? Would he have knocked on the door, stealthily tried to break in, or beat down the door with the gun stock? What if Jayme’s Dad showed up at the door with his own gun? What if Jayme was away at a sleepover? Had he been watching the house and knew she was home? If he saw her once, he had to make sure she actually lived there by seeing her again at the bus stop. Is it a one kid bus stop? Does she run out of the house and the bus picked her up? Some kids take a bus from a caregiver’s house where they are dropped off in the morning if their parents work early shifts. Also-what arrangements did he make back at his house for when he brought her back there? Was he just winging it?

 

[Quill]

It's normalization. When you interact with someone on a daily basis or live with them, you normalize their abnormal behavior. Grandma leaves the stove on and shouldn't be living on her own, but the family says she's just "slipping". I'm sure the kids he went to school with didn't interact with him much, they couldn't have put it into words back then other than that there was something weird about him.
The other thing is, we all are led to believe people can be set on the right path and they can be rehabilitated. Sadly, it's not true. Some people can't be fixed and some people can't be rehabilitated. I don't think he slipped through any cracks, I think he lived the cracks and tried to be normal enough to be left alone.

Well, that is one perspective. I am trying to avoid going into a personal story here, but when the family breaks down there is a lot that goes unnoticed unattended.