Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #43

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My point is that under the law he is innocent, He is in jail which means he has all kind of rights that will be denied to him once he is put into prison.

People were wondering about him getting mail.

I think there is a lot of confusion re jail and prison and also what innocent means in the law.

Yes, it has zero to do with what we think. But it matters as far as what he can receive. Visitors, mail and???? I do not kmow what else he can get.

Money?
Under the law, absolutely. People in general seem to think you cannot be told to consider someone guilty but that only applies to Law not free thought. So often we are guilted into not thinking for ourselves.

I like to explain why we are not subject to social pressure from others.

For his rights, legal representation, mail, phone calls, a canteen account, visitors, exercise , health care, clean clothes - human rights...
 
According to the 14th amendment of the Constitution a person is "presumed" innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. It is a legal principle not a social principle.

In the Latin: ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat - “the burden of proof is on the one who declares, not on one who denies”, means that the justice system declares the charges against him, not me. So it is the Justice System who must bear the burden of proof and treat him as though he is innocent. In other words the jail cannot house or work him as a convicted man. He cannot be subjected to punishment, torture, etc. Yes he can be held in secure lockup for his and my protection but not as a convicted person. His rights to interrogation, to representation/ counsel, trial, etc., are protected as are yours and mine.

I, on the other hand have no such burden. The 1st Amendment to the Constitution guarantees my right to free expression and free association, which means that the government does not have the right to forbid me from saying what I like and writing what I like. Therefore If I say I think he is guilty I cannot be held to some legal principle which negates my freedom of thought.

If I were to be called to the Jury, however, in order to serve I must be sworn in and then declare that I can render an impartial verdict based on the evidence and the law.

In this case I would have to decline on the basis that I have formed a prejudicial opinion based on the knowledge that I have.

That is my right.

So when someone says he is innocent until proven guilty, the only truth there is that is their own opinion and nothing more, unless they are part of the Law enforcement and Judicial system under which he is being charged and still it only applies to themselves.

So as for me, he is guilty and should serve the rest of his natural life. And I don't have to prove it. I am free to think and say what I please.

JMO




BAM, spot on! I think if a poll were taken on here, most have held public opinion court and we the jury find him GUILTY. MOO
 
Sheriff Fitzgerald says a little more about "the letter" and it appearing to have been mailed to an out of state address. :eek::eek:



Barron sheriff: Investigators looking into purported letter from Jake Patterson

From that article:

"Barron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald said the letter "appears" to be from Patterson, but he couldn't say with certainty when contacted by a reporter Tuesday. He said investigators are working to ensure the letter didn't violate Patterson's bond, which prohibits him from contacting Jayme or the Douglas County residents who helped her following her escape last month.

As long as it's not a bond violation, Patterson has the legal right to write whoever he wants, Fitzgerald said. "

So, the letter 'could' be from JP. Yep, he has at least one 'fan'. Ugh!
 
My point is that under the law he is innocent, He is in jail which means he has all kind of rights that will be denied to him once he is put into prison.

People were wondering about him getting mail.

I think there is a lot of confusion re jail and prison and also what innocent means in the law.

Yes, it has zero to do with what we think. But it matters as far as what he can receive. Visitors, mail and???? I do not kmow what else he can get.

Money?

Excellent points human...it also mean he’ll be in civi clothes or suit come trial time.

My fear isn’t he doesn’t get LWOP. My fear is public thought in 30 years. They could feel in 30 years LWOP is cruel and unusual..
And gain more knowledge on mental defects..thus leading to release in 30 years.

If u would told somebody in 1980 in 35 yrs from now pot would be legal, trans surgery must be covered by law, and terrorist treatment matters, most would laugh.

Societies get softer. That one Dutch guy shot 20 kids ? Only 25 yrs in prison... hope to hell we never get that soft.

Wisconsin needs to revisit death penalty and
Create a quick path...
 
So JP is facing:

2 homicide murder charges= 2 LWOP sentences ... IF FOUND GUILTY

1 kidnapping charge= up to 40 years max (I think).... IF FOUND GUILTY

1 aggravated burglary charge= up to 20 years max (I think)..... IF FOUND GUILTY


I have wondered *why* some judges give multiple life sentences since life is life, (or so I thought) well here is the reasoning behind it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Suppose, for example, that a defendant is on trial for two murders. The jury convicts him of both, and the judge sentences him to consecutive life sentences. He appeals the convictions and a court overturns one because the prosecution didn’t comply with its discovery obligations. That takes one life sentence off the books—at least until the defendant can be retried. But the other life sentence remains in effect."
 
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Excellent points human...it also mean he’ll be in civi clothes or suit come trial time.

My fear isn’t he doesn’t get LWOP. My fear is public thought in 30 years. They could feel in 30 years LWOP is cruel and unusual..
And gain more knowledge on mental defects..thus leading to release in 30 years.

If u would told somebody in 1980 in 35 yrs from now pot would be legal, trans surgery must be covered by law, and terrorist treatment matters, most would laugh.

Societies get softer. That one Dutch guy shot 20 kids ? Only 25 yrs in prison... hope to hell we never get that soft.

Wisconsin needs to revisit death penalty and
Create a quick path...

If it were effective then they probably would. However, the opposite is true. Violent crime rates have declined at a higher pace in non-death penalty states than in death penalty states.

Either way. He's never going to be released.
 
Greetings all . . . It’s been a while. Good catching up. JP letter (I’ll wait to comment on that).

Maybe it’s because of JP’s letter, Sheriff Fitzgerald has announced:


Received a pop up on my FB page today but I can’t open it as I don’t subscribe to the Barron News-Shield. here’s what I do see . . .

“New rules in effect for March Patterson court arraignment

  • Bob Zientara
  • 3 hrs ago
Barron County Circuit Court Judge James C. Babler has issued new rules governing public participation in a case against the Douglas County man accused in connection with the murders of two Barron residents and the abduction of their 13-year-old daughter in October 2018.

Jake T. Patterson, 21, is scheduled to appear in court to be arraigned on Wednesday, March 27, 2019, in connection with the shooting deaths of James and Denise Closs and the kidnapping of 13-year-old Jayme Closs.”

Can a subscriber fill us in on what the new rules are?

New rules in effect for March Patterson court arraignment
 
• Anyone entering the courtroom will be searched for weapons, except for staff and on-duty police. No handbags, backpacks, carry-ins or coats will be allowed. Cell phones must be powered off and stowed out of sight. Only designated media will be allowed to use laptops, but reporters are forbidden to record or stream audio or video of the proceedings.

• The back row on each side of the courtroom will be reserved for media. In the past, this rule has allowed no more than 12 journalists (sitting close together). A live video feed will be offered to media members unable to witness the hearings in person.



• No more than 48 people will be admitted to the bench seats in the courtroom. Spectators won’t be allowed to “wear clothing or display signs or any other items expressing sympathy or support for either the defendant or victim.”

• The Sheriff’s Department will take over regulating media parking. There will be reserved spaces for trucks and vans as space allows.

• As was the case in previous hearings, only Minnesota-based KSTP-TV will be allowed to take video, which will be shared with other media. Two still cameras will be allowed in the courtroom, but the shutters must be silent and flash is prohibited
 
My point is that under the law he is innocent, He is in jail which means he has all kind of rights that will be denied to him once he is put into prison.

People were wondering about him getting mail.

I think there is a lot of confusion re jail and prison and also what innocent means in the law.

Yes, it has zero to do with what we think. But it matters as far as what he can receive. Visitors, mail and???? I do not kmow what else he can get.

Money?

I got what you meant but I see how others misconstrued it. You, like me, were responding to he has visitors, can write letters, etc. I knew you mean he could have visitors, mail, etc. People have said he cannot but I have never seen a source cited for that, I disagree. He is in county and not convicted. I don't know how it is in other states but in every state I have ever been in county does not entail high fences, security guard, etc. He is not convicted. Of course, I would think he can have contact with visitors and write any letter he wants (does not mean it would not be screened nor seen) and phone calls (does not mean they are not recorded). I do not doubt RADAR could ask to see him on whatever his visiting hours are. If he agrees, they probably can.

Haven't caught up with the thread so if addressed already, just ignore.
 
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