AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #18

[Gardener1850]

Thanks for clarifying Gardener 1850. I guess I'm trying to convey(without mentioning names or specifics) that sometimes the people a teen chooses to follow on their social media apps can raise red flags based on what you know about the teens life.
In this situation regarding the games, I was just curious if maybe LE determined that Jayme played digital games and became friendly online with individuals/groups that posted/played about digital games? Also, was Jayme possibly following unknown adult males who may have disturbing posts or comments about things that raised red flags ? It seems to me that in some situations(could pertain to this case) that concern may arise when looking at the other people an individual follows . Does the young teen "fit in" on their following page? Does the young teen seem to stand out amongst the other other images or interests they are following. To the point that LE has said that they are now focusing on electronics, many teens have 500-2000 followers on their apps , which could take LE many weeks to track down. I have also read here that many perps can also hide their IP addresses, which could also take more time for LE to figure out. In my opinion, that's maybe why LE is focusing on this area now.

An online connection is certainly possible. The reason I discount that Jayme was talking to anyone through apps or games is that it seems like 2 weeks would be long enough for LE to figure that out (and just FYI there were a few Instagrams made using Jayme's name that seem to have been made and started accepting followers after she went missing-- they are fake accounts likely made by people following the case. Her real account had very few people following her before she went missing and she was only following like 3 people if I recall correctly). I think LE have been looking at the electronics and social media footprint of the family since the beginning, but maybe now they are looking at it deeper for more hidden things that may be harder to detect? It was just an idea. But, what do I know about tracking down electronic communications? Not much.

 

[SandyQLS]

Great point. What about the 911 call made them think Jayme was there? Voices can sound different on the phone. Even if they thought they heard her voice how do they know it wasn't someone else?

The yelling is also strange. Who dialed 911? Who hung up? Who was yelling? If the call came in after the shots (which seems to be the case) then who would be yelling? Could be Jayme. But "a lot of yelling" implies more than one person yelling. Who else was yelling? And what was the nature of it, words or just yelling in pain or terror?

I think hearing the call would clear a lot of things up.

O/T FYI - A judge ruled this week that the 911 call and transcript must be released over LE objections re: LISK case in NY, Shannan Gilbert's desperate call to 911 in ... 2010. 8 years!

 

[cluciano63]

If Jayme had used a device that was not hers on which to play games, surf the internet, etc...LE might be unable to find possible contact by a disguised predator. I.e if she was restricted at home as to usage, she may have done so elsewhere...would hardly be the first teen to do so. I assume her close friends have been interviewed, as well as local library staff...which may not be able to help as far as what she may have done online, but if she used computers there often, it might be a clue.

Also with so many masking apps to hide IPS addresses, it may take longer than two weeks to track down any “iffy” contacts they come across.
Jmo

 

[kiaatcher]

I am new to this website, but have been following this horrible case from the beginning and I feel it all points back to an electronic connection.This is in response to Gardener 1850 comment about the LE electronics angle.

I totally agree. Maybe LE has been reviewing Jayme's social media and are now focusing on that one angle more closely based on the info they have. There is a lot to determine about a person if you look at an individuals social media/phone apps and see who they follow and who follows them. I won't specifically mention any one particular website/application , but there are a few popular apps used by teens today on their phones( other then FB )that allow them to post pictures and comments. By looking into these followers & who they choose to follow can often give you a glimpse of their interests etc.. I agree with Gardener 1850 that maybe a gaming device/interactive game or some type of electronic device allowed Jayme to have contact with an individual or a group of individuals who may have befriended her . Maybe LE has determined that Jayme was a frequent play in interactive digital games and developed some type of relationship. Although I have never played any of these games, I hear through friends that their kids interact with people all over the world when playing. As we have all heard, these games can be very violent and dark and in the past these "gamers" have portrayed the violence they see on these games into real life situations .If I recall correctly, the Sandy Hook killer played very violent digital games. Just another angle I thought of once I heard the direction LE was now taking.

Honestly I wouldn't be shocked if she was approached by a predator who manipulated a trusting relationship out of her. When I was younger (10-14) and had myself as my profile picture on Steam, Instagram, etc. I would get approached by multiple creeps asking for a phone number or other personal info.Their pages usually had their full names, where they lived, ages, and other obvious info, but I'm guessing that this perpetrator would have been much more careful if he was planning this elaborate of a situation.
Thankfully I was a bit more well versed with that stuff because I spent a lot of time online and had some people who kindly taught me how to block/report pedos, but I could see any pre-teen/teenager not having a clue on how to detect who's a predator. There's not enough discussion with children nowadays with that because they're using social media at such a young and vulnerable age (+ parents don't want to instigate such a sensitive topic).
It's going to be hard for LE if they don't have her phone/computer and can't access DMs. JMO

 

[peace9274]

if she did get away and ran. The dogs would have most probably picked on her scent.

I keep thinking the same thing about the dogs picking up her scent if she ran off alone or if the perp dragged/carried her into the woods.

But then I remember the searchers and their dogs weren’t able to find Elizabeth Smart, even though they were close enough that she could hear the searchers calling her name and the dogs barking.

 

[Hatfield]

Ok, so lets say you are the perp here. What have you accomplished? This wasn't a robbery so you don't have valuables or money (that we know of), so what have you accomplished? Not too many scenarios. To me, you either got the revenge that you went there for or you got the daughter that you went there for. With the revenge scenario, I really don't see any benefit with taking the daughter. I think that they went for Jayme.
Also, I had mentioned in an earlier post that it occured to me the the FBI was contacted only 3 hours into the case to become involved.
Doesn't LE need certain criteria to be met for the FBI to join in a case. Obviously there is a missing child and they belong on the case but 3 hours into the case, they must have had enough info to meet that criteria pretty quick

I totally agree. Excellent points.

JMO
I think they were there for the girl. They had to leave in a hurry once they started shooting. They knew there was a chance of neighbors hearing shots so they were in a hurry. When on the run you would not normally take a victim with you unless that was one of your motivations. That tells me they went there to get her.

Also one criteria the FBI will be brought in is when a crime crosses state lines. I think LE suspects they immediately left the area and left the state.

From the highway they were on I think they went East into Wisconsin because they would want to avoid Minneapolis and St. Paul so I think they headed East at first and ended up in Wisconsin at least temporarily.
Would explain FBI involvement so quick.

Then its anyones guess if they went further East or South into Iowa or even wrapped around back North to northern minnesota or even into Canada.

Point being I think they left the area and went East into Wisconsin at least temporarily. They may still be there. I just cant see them heading back to Minneapolis St Paul area. Too big a city after doing something like they did. Too many chances to get pulled over at that hour.

ETA. I had my map wrong and didnt realize their original house location was already in Barron Wisconsin. Which leaves only two choices to get out of state quickly. Either go west to Minnesota border or south to Iowa border.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

Is there a breakdown of the types of crime Barran, WI has in their city? Is it high, low? Local.
I would think there would be a lot of not so nice people living in the city due to the Plant based there. Some with a history and some with none.
Some of the jobs there must be not so nice so the city draws in those unable to find work elsewhere and there they land.
Just being curious on a slow news day.

This is a great tool from the DOJ/UCR. You can choose where (national, state, county, etc), when (year/s), and what variables (crime type) you are interested in then it gives you the results. https://www.ucrdatatool.gov/

 

[Miss Mimi]

Another poster somewhere wondered 'What if DC was shot first, how would that change the scene?' and I don't remember any replies to that idea either, an idea that may or may not coordinate with yours. Is that what you're saying, the shooter was already inside?

I've wondered if DC was possibly shot first through the window (Maybe standing at the kitchen sink, it appears that the kitchen is to the right of the front door) Investigators Comb Closs Home for Any Remaining Evidence, Reward Increases to $50K I have also seen what appears to be a bullet hole in that window in multiple videos. However it could be bird poop too

JC (possibly has fallen asleep on the couch) is alerted, the perp(s) storms the door and he is shot as well.

I've wondered about the outdoor lighting in that video also, whether the light above the garage area is motion activated. I do believe I am over thinking every little thing lol

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

"Evidence from the 911 call" could include finding Jayme's fingerprints on the phone used to make the call and the location the phone was found in the house. JMO.

True though I would expect Jaymes fingerprints to be on the phone unless she wasn't allowed to touch it. What would location of phone tell? It's something I hadn't given thought to. TIA

 

[Mercedes]

That's a good question, we don't know the answer though.

IMO, shots outside would be louder sounding (from next door) than shots coming from inside the house.
It gets cold in WI. Homes both presumably are built with well-insulated exterior walls.
I can think of several plausible reasons neighbor may hear some, but not all, of the shots.

Perhaps one of them sleeps with a breathing machine.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the lead agency did not release more information to the public. I see members calling for the release of the 911 call. There is no reason to do that except to entertain the public. If the suspects voice was on the tape and could be clearly isolated then I’m betting that we would have already heard it.

The case, as I know it, really does not have any clues that would jump out at you if released to the public. The matter of who kicked down what door and what position the bodies were won’t be important until trial. There is no reason to release that in fact I don’t ever recall a reporter asking for the inside scoop about a crime scene.

Remember this is a rural community and law enforcement probably has an inside mistrust of the outside media.

I’ll say that the next thing that they release (if they do release anything) would be their belief that the daughter is alive. If that does happen then it will become a nationwide story and there will be no need for her to hide forever.

Welcome!

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the lead agency did not release more information to the public. I see members calling for the release of the 911 call. There is no reason to do that except to entertain the public. If the suspects voice was on the tape and could be clearly isolated then I’m betting that we would have already heard it.

The case, as I know it, really does not have any clues that would jump out at you if released to the public. The matter of who kicked down what door and what position the bodies were won’t be important until trial. There is no reason to release that in fact I don’t ever recall a reporter asking for the inside scoop about a crime scene.

Remember this is a rural community and law enforcement probably has an inside mistrust of the outside media.

I’ll say that the next thing that they release (if they do release anything) would be their belief that the daughter is alive. If that does happen then it will become a nationwide story and there will be no need for her to hide forever.

You think she is hiding?

 

[Mistermagoo]

I've wondered if DC was possibly shot first through the window (Maybe standing at the kitchen sink, it appears that the kitchen is to the right of the front door) Investigators Comb Closs Home for Any Remaining Evidence, Reward Increases to $50K I have also seen what appears to be a bullet hole in that window in multiple videos. However it could be bird poop too

JC (possibly has fallen asleep on the couch) is alerted, the perp(s) storms the door and he is shot as well.

I've wondered about the outdoor lighting in that video also, whether the light above the garage area is motion activated. I do believe I am over thinking every little thing lol

I've noticed what appears to be a bullet hole in the window also. I was going to post it here a few times but i cannot get past the part of thinking that a bullet would shatter the whole window. I cannot see a window having the same type of hole that a car or a wall would, like this appears. However, I could be wrong

 

[Jethro4WS]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the lead agency did not release more information to the public. I see members calling for the release of the 911 call. There is no reason to do that except to entertain the public. If the suspects voice was on the tape and could be clearly isolated then I’m betting that we would have already heard it.

The case, as I know it, really does not have any clues that would jump out at you if released to the public. The matter of who kicked down what door and what position the bodies were won’t be important until trial. There is no reason to release that in fact I don’t ever recall a reporter asking for the inside scoop about a crime scene.

Remember this is a rural community and law enforcement probably has an inside mistrust of the outside media.

I’ll say that the next thing that they release (if they do release anything) would be their belief that the daughter is alive. If that does happen then it will become a nationwide story and there will be no need for her to hide forever.

I would like to focus on this part of your reply.

I’ll say that the next thing that they release (if they do release anything) would be their belief that the daughter is alive. If that does happen then it will become a nationwide story and there will be no need for her to hide forever.

Can you expound upon that?

 

[Mistermagoo]

I totally agree. Excellent points.

JMO
I think they were there for the girl. They had to leave in a hurry once they started shooting. They knew there was a chance of neighbors hearing shots so they were in a hurry. When on the run you would not normally take a victim with you unless that was one of your motivations. That tells me they went there to get her.

Also one criteria the FBI will be brought in is when a crime crosses state lines. I think LE suspects they immediately left the area and left the state.

From the highway they were on I think they went East into Wisconsin because they would want to avoid Minneapolis and St. Paul so I think they headed East at first and ended up in Wisconsin at least temporarily.
Would explain FBI involvement so quick.

Then its anyones guess if they went further East or South into Iowa or even wrapped around back North to northern minnesota or even into Canada.

Point being I think they left the area and went East into Wisconsin at least temporarily. They may still be there. I just cant see them heading back to Minneapolis St Paul area. Too big a city after doing something like they did. Too many chances to get pulled over at that hour.

Thank you, I agree

 

[Angleterre]

It’s not my area of expertise to be honest
I’m told that nowadays there are literally office suites set up as you would expect to see for any legitimate business and staffed by what looks to be just ordinary admin staff BUT they are cyber crime teams scamming poor unsuspecting people on a massive scale, daily.
I know that it can be found but the work it takes to do so I believe is onerous and depending on the technology used, can take weeks/months ( again I refer to U.K. NOT USA)
But I really can’t say as I don’t know too much about it- maybe Falcon500 can assist here ?
Welcome by the way Falcon

Or any other WS who have technology backgrounds?

We had a problem 3 or 4 years ago with an Apple app Talking Angela and that was a kids app but allegedly it was hacked so that when a child engaged with her, undesirables were intercepting communications with the child and spying through ‘Angela’s eyes’ somehow
Again I’m aware of the stuff that’s going on which frankly is quite unbelievable and very frightening but I don’t know the intricacies of it .

 

[lonetraveler]

I think the evidence at the scene shows them he was standing at the shot up door when killed.

Imo they have evidence the shooter was in front of him when he was shot at the front door area.

The trajectory alone of the bullets entering his body or head would easily be seen at the time by the investigators and would tell them where the shooter was standing when he fired.

Imo it shows James was standing in the doorway area inside of his home facing his front door. He would have frontal shots which would propell his body backward and found face up with his feet closest to the door.

I imagine they have no other forced entry in the home other than the breeched front door where he was shot.

Jmo

Sums up my thoughts as well. Hopefully there are footprints in the blood that will indicate a couple of things, ie., was Jayme barefoot when she was kidnapped or wearing shoes? Was there one or two people involved in the murders and kidnapping? Was Jayme given time to dress prior to leaving? I have so many questions right now.

 

[SandyQLS]

if she did get away and ran. The dogs would have most probably picked on her scent.

Follow the dogs! The dogs know. One-time personal search experience: trust the dog, he was exactly correct.

Question for the map sleuthers - the Smrekar house is east of the Closs house?

IDK but it may be that the first search with 100 volunteers along Hwy 8 toward the Casino was because the dog(s) indicated that direction. The Sheriff stated the second search with 2000 volunteers in the terrain NE of the house was based on "tips" received.

 

[Cardinal47]

This is a great tool from the DOJ/UCR. You can choose where (national, state, county, etc), when (year/s), and what variables (crime type) you are interested in then it gives you the results. https://www.ucrdatatool.gov/

Thank you. I went over and tried it out. Looks like this sheriff is doing a good job to reduce crime. I was disappointed that the info only goes through 2014. A lot can happen in 4 years.

 

[Gardener1850]

True though I would expect Jaymes fingerprints to be on the phone unless she wasn't allowed to touch it. What would location of phone tell? It's something I hadn't given thought to. TIA

If it was not near one of her parents' bodies, that may indicate she made the call. It could have been found in a place that also had evidence of Jayme hiding-- like under the bed or in her closet in her bedroom. Also, since it was her mom's cell phone and it seems Jayme had her own cell phone (going by photos) she may not have had any reason to touch her mom's cell everyday or to make calls with it. They could tell if her fingerprints were specifically on the screen in the locations where the number 9 - 1 - 1 come up when you dial a smart phone. So they might know from all that info. JMO.

ETA: If they know Jayme made the 911 call but the phone was somewhat hidden, I think LE might be trying to avoid releasing that info in order to protect her. If she is alive and if the perp for some reason was not aware of the call made he may react in anger towards Jayme. I think they know who made the call based on forensics on the phone but are wise to not release that info. JMO.