AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #31

[ilovechili]

I took that to mean that the 911 operator had Verizon Wireless on the line to track the location of the phone that had given the 911 hangup. Once the officers arrived at the scene she disconnected with Verizon Wireless.

That makes sense and I never thought of that. So the person removed means the call disconnected between Verizon and her or keeping her end open you are thinking?

 

[lonetraveler]

There is a resemblance for sure

I totally agree. If I see a young girl looking this much like Jayme you better believe that I will immediately call LE. I'm glad people are paying attention.

 

[mom2chloe]

We are all desperate in the desire to find Jayme (and the perp) and because we have so little to go on, we are all throwing out options. No one here is victim blamimg as we all know that there are predators out there who are savvy at enticing young girls. Anyone can present themselves as something they’re not on the internet and that’s the sad reality. The other reality is that most of us hold out hope that Jayme is alive and certainly that is what her family continues to rely on.
This was not a random act of violence. Too quick and precise in the act of murdering both parents and fleeing with Jayme. Without any input from the family or locals, we are left grasping at theories. Lack of verification on so many possibilities leaves us scratching our heads and our hearts are heavy. I am proud of everyone who joins this discussion because if it were me or a family member, acquaintance or friend who suffered a similar fate, I know I would appreciate all the love and thoughts that go into these types of cases.

 

[Moonsie]

LE has more information than we do.

LE says there is no digital footprint on the phone.

LE says if there was, then they would have something to go on.

If and when LE says differently, then ok. Until then, I will believe what LE has said.

moo.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Thanks to those who shared the teen insights. I find that to be very helpful.

I wanted to touch on something I don't think is always that well understood. Electronics forensics. First, don't think that there's some geeky agents scrolling through phones looking for messages. On the other hand, there also isn't some magic FBI software that they plug into and have every shred of data ever passing through a device. There are endless variables involved, and it's a less than perfect science. Are the devices IOS? Android? Blackberry? Windows? Chrome? Is it a simple or complex password? Encryption? Old flip phone? Burner phone? We don't know any of this. To understand more, Google "smartphone forensics".

I guess my point is, just because they have the devices, it doesn't mean they can extract whatever they want. It's possible they can't get anything. Also, just because we've been told there's nothing there, doesn't necessarily mean there's nothing there. We don't know.

Yeah. There are a few different and distinct issues aside from encryption, which in many cases you might get past since the keys may still be present. One is that the extraction and processing software only understands the data of a subset of apps that exist. Another is file formats that where the creator app is not known and partial files where it may not be discernible what type of file it was and whether it can be partially recoverable or not.

The most critical aspect of working with smartphone dumps is actually going through and reading the messages/files/etc as there may be significant information sitting right in front of you but it may just seem otherwise innocuous. Trying to understand whether messages should be read literally or if there is a code being used, whether there is any seeming significance to an image, photo, video, or song based on when it was taken/created or even deleted and what was going on with messages/calls in the same time frame, and even examining the times an app was used or was deleted/installed (including multiple times) are all part of that. The appearance of certain slang, a turn of phrase, a meme, an interest in a topic as evidenced in browser activity, etc. can tell a story such as a shift in behavior, a change in a relationship, etc. This can be extremely important with an individual that communicates with one or perhaps a select few persons with one device and communicates with everyone else using another device as those kinds of things sometimes leak across communications inadvertently when the user doesn't give it much thought and brings something from one "world" into the other.

Software can't really do much of that work - a human has to do it. But I don't want to stray too far off topic so I will leave it at that.

 

[mom2chloe]

I agree and think LE is holding something close to the vest. In the meantime, the frustration is nearly unbearable because we all want an alive Jayme and a successful chance at bringing her home. I hope her family is a little better off with knowing something perhaps we are not privy to because they need that information in order to hold out hope. It is a sad world we live in and impossible not to dwell on that fact with zero information than what has been released.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Great point. And if u use text primarily WiFi most do ... you’d never need cell line.
My nephew will break phone and use back up for text for 3 days and not miss beat... dunno .. she could have 2 old phones but u would think the emei or cell info / even with new sd card would still be traceable ??

It should show in the router log in the house as there will be one of those if all you are using is WiFi.

 

[Megnut]

I just looked up the addresses included in the 911 call log. Google maps seems to have updated since I last searched. One address, I think we determined to be the farm where they searched, then requested permission to park LE vehicles. Do we know why LE went to the other property? There is a new vehicle parked in front .... I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this.

 

[Jabarn]

LE has more information than we do.

LE says there is no digital footprint on the phone.

LE says if there was, then they would have something to go on.

If and when LE says differently, then ok. Until then, I will believe what LE has said.

moo.

Something to add, there are three potential cell phones. We know Denise had one, since the 911 call was placed from it. We know Jayme had one, since it was charging in the kitchen. I assume James had one, as well, since the landline was disengaged, and not cut (thanks, to the Dude for helping understand that).

Since there is no digital footprint, it could mean the killers had not communicated with any of them prior to the crime through any app, any text, or any of their devices.

IMO, that leaves it open to a more personal connection.

 

[Moonsie]

IMO, that leaves it open to a more personal connection.

Or no personal connection at all.

moo.

 

[Jabarn]

Or no personal connection at all.

True... although there has to be a reason for such an outright ambush. I do not think the evidence leans toward an internet predator, but it could be a predator who knew any of the family members. I guess by personal I meant they were known or seen in a physical sense, not just in the computer world (like we only know each other here, come to think about it. ).

 

[Jethro4WS]

Not sure I am catching you. Are you saying that maybe someone that called in in response got joined to a call? And then removed? Do you have the call log? I thought it was one of the few docs in this case that can be talked about or shared.

"Verizon Wireless" very likely was the placeholder for Denise's phone and the call taker wouldn't know it was Denise's phone until they called back the number. So my best guess is when the call came in it popped on their system as VERIZON WIRELESS *advertiser censored*-*advertiser censored*-XXXX and was logged by the system as that (this would be the very top section of the call report on page one where all the parties involved are listed). Later it was removed because it was Denise's phone and Denise was also one of the involved parties and her number would be associated with her rather than the generic "Verizon Wireless".

 

[mom2chloe]

So we do not know where James’ cell phone was or if it has been accounted for? Could he have been the one who kicked in the front door in a desperate attempt to gain access and then was immediately taken out once inside?

 

[Jabarn]

So we do not know where James’ cell phone was or if it has been accounted for? Could he have been the one who kicked in the front door in a desperate attempt to gain access and then was immediately taken out once inside?

That’s where I get confused by James’ timeline. Someone posted here several days ago there was a quote in the media that Denise was on the phone with her sister at 10pm and everyone was home, accounted for. I just never saw the quote.

 

[Lillymac]

So we do not know where James’ cell phone was or if it has been accounted for? Could he have been the one who kicked in the front door in a desperate attempt to gain access and then was immediately taken out once inside?

The reports I've read said all three phones were located in the house.

 

[IceIce9]

I think some people just think it's unlikely. At least the camp that I'm in. Certainly not offended by it, and it's something that is fair to discuss.

To me, the idea that a 13 year old girl from a blue collar family in a small town would be sophisticated enough to have a second cell phone is a little far-fetched.

It would shock me even more if she was in contact with a boyfriend/pedophile/etc. and the FBI couldn't find that connection.

That being said, it's certainly possible. Likely? No.

I put it in the same category as any theory that involves Jayme being a participant in her parents murders -- there is zero evidence to support it, but it can't be 100% ruled out.

I think there is a chance that Jayme knew the person who abducted her, but was unaware that the person or persons planned to hurt or kill her parents. IMO.

We lived in a small town for a few years, and I can tell you that there are small town kids from blue collar families who are just as sophisticated as city kids from non-blue collar families.

And it wouldn’t necessarily have to be a boyfriend in the traditional sense either. 13 year old girls have secret crushes on older boys, teachers, convenience store employees, etc. Or there could be an employee at school or elsewhere who might have befriended Jayme, and she might have confided in him some teenage secrets or complaints. A teacher’s aide or custodian might have given Jayme a listening ear and then developed an unhealthy obsession with her.

There is so much we don’t know, and none of us know Jayme. It is all speculation and opinion at this point.

And LE has refused to answer certain questions at this point, so it seems they might be aware of facts that they have not shared with the public yet. My own opinion, of course.

 

[Moonsie]

True... although there has to be a reason for such an outright ambush. I do not think the evidence leans toward an internet predator, but it could be a predator who knew any of the family members. I guess by personal I meant they were known or seen in a physical sense, not just in the computer world (like we only know each other here, come to think about it. ).

ITA that there has to be a reason for the ambush, but I also think it possible that it would be hard for someone to understand other than the perp.

- I grew up without parents and I resent anyone that has ones that love them.
- I grew up with parents, but for whatever reason I was emotionally unattached to them and felt no remorse by killing Denise and James.
- I grew up with parents, but for whatever reason I hated mine and felt no remorse by killing Denise and James.
- I have a previous history where I liked a young girl and one of her parents ‘caught’ me. I am not going to let that happen again.
- etc.

These only make sense if the target was Jayme. After reading thirty plus threads here, I also now am open to a lot of the possibilities raised by other sleuthers here - for example, the target was one of the parents, and that part of the ambush was planned, but Jayme being present somehow messed things up - like, the perp couldn’t risk Jayme identifying him/her. Or, the perp ran out of time due to the 911. Or the perp ran out of ammo. Etc.

moo.

 

[Jabarn]

The reports I've read said all three phones were located in the house.

That would be a clue he in the home when the crime started, for sure. Do you have a link?

I think it would be important to add the evidence James was home to the timeline from Whiskers16 at the start of each new thread.

That and the link to phone call with Denise and her sister, where DC said everyone was home.

 

[Jabarn]

ITA that there has to be a reason for the ambush, but I also think it possible that it would be hard for someone to understand other than the perp.

- I grew up without parents and I resent anyone that has ones that love them.
- I grew up with parents, but for whatever reason I was emotionally unattached to them and felt no remorse by killing Denise and James.
- I grew up with parents, but for whatever reason I hated mine and felt no remorse by killing Denise and James.
- I have a previous history where I liked a young girl and one of her parents ‘caught’ me. I am not going to let that happen again.
- etc.

These only make sense if the target was Jayme. After reading thirty plus threads here, I also now am open to a lot of the possibilities raised by other sleuthers here - for example, the target was one of the parents, and that part of the ambush was planned, but Jayme being present somehow messed things up - like, the perp couldn’t risk Jayme identifying him/her. Or, the perp ran out of time due to the 911. Or the perp ran out of ammo. Etc.

moo.

It just seems straight out vengeful, is all I can make of it, and why Jayme was taken away, I have no idea. It could be a red herring, but I am not leaning that way, at least not tonight. The fact she was taken has to be important in some way. Doesn’t it?

 

[Pennysmom1]

Just thought of another scenario to consider...do we know if Jayme went to any summer camps/church camps? All four of my kids did this for two weeks in the summer; in fact the same camp I went to as a girl. Could she have met a "crush" or "boyfriend" this way? Nothing serious to her, but in contact with someone who had an interest with her?