WI WI - Madison, WhtMale 18-35, 745UMWI, in chimney, fem clothing, German iron cross medallion, Sep'89

Lady Stardust

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Hey!

The following case was added to doenetwork yesterday: In 1989, a young man dressed in woman's clothes was found in the chimney of a business in Madison, WI.

Unidentified White Male

* The victim was discovered on September 3, 1989 in Madison, Wisconsin
* Estimated Date of Death: 2-24 months prior. (September of 1987 to July of 1989)
* Skeletal Remains

Vital Statistics

* Estimated age: 18-35 years old
* Approximate Height and Weight: 5'5-5'7"
* Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair, about 4 inches long. Thin build.
* Dentals: Available. Pronounced overbite.
* Clothing: A sleeveless paisley dress, with a matching belt; a long-sleeved, button-down shirt that may have been made of Oxford-type cloth. A medium-size White Stag brand, shaggy-pile sweater. Low-heeled, pointed shoes. He was wearing one pair of socks and carrying another pair. He was not wearing underwear. A German iron cross medallion, a butter knife and a pocket comb.

Case History
The victim's skeletal remains were found in the chimney of a business on University Avenue in Madison, WI. The owner of the building was doing repair work, and saw water leaking from the flue onto the basement floor after removing a boiler. He shined a light into the chimney and discovered the remains at the base of the chimney about level with the basement floor. There is no way the man could have gotten into the pipe from within the building.
The person may have been a male cross-dresser or someone for some reason disguising himself as a woman.
Detectives have speculated the man was a burglar who got stuck in the chimney and died, or a murder victim who was stuffed into the chimney. The pelvic bones of the mystery man had been severely fractured and those injuries appear to have been caused at the time of death.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/745umwi.html

https://identifyus.org/cases/4770
 

Snufamonbobball

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I thought the same thing, and the broken pelvis sounds a dit like dahmer. He liked to pose the bodies in extreme poses. There was a swedish documentary about dahmer and they had pictures he took- ones I'd never seen here in the US- and it's no joke he posed them in extreme positions. To the point where broken bones would be a possibility.
 

carbuff

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I thought the same thing, and the broken pelvis sounds a dit like dahmer. He liked to pose the bodies in extreme poses. There was a swedish documentary about dahmer and they had pictures he took- ones I'd never seen here in the US- and it's no joke he posed them in extreme positions. To the point where broken bones would be a possibility.

I saw one of those and it made me sick to my stomach. And I'm not particularly squeamish.

Didn't he dress some of his victims in women's clothes? Or am I remembering a different sicko?
 

tatertot

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Article about the morgue where his remains are kept:

*WARNING: post-mortem photo (skeletal remains):*
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...cle_240fafbe-04be-11e0-bb3c-001cc4c002e0.html

Also, he was "carrying" an extra pair of socks, but where? In a pocket, where the knife and comb were presumably found, or were they loose in his clothing? I mean no disrespect to this UID when I say this, but he may have been using the socks, or planning to use them, as prosthetic breasts under the dress. That would work better with a bra, though, and it is said that no underwear was found with the UID.
 

ctaylor

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http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/case-of-mysterious-chimney-skeleton-may-have-fresh-clue/article_56cdd86e-64b1-11e1-ba77-001871e3ce6c.html

Case of mysterious 'chimney skeleton' may have fresh clue

GEORGE HESSELBERG | Wisconsin State Journal | 608-252-6140 | (4) Comments | Posted: Monday, March 5, 2012 6:00 am

Laura Zimmerman remembers a face, but not a name.

It's a long shot, but she believes a man she worked with in the Legislature more than 22 years ago may be the same person whose bones and rotted clothing have long been the focus of Madison's most baffling death investigation: the skeleton in the chimney.

Last month, Zimmerman's memory was passed along to the Madison Police Department, resurrecting the mystery with a tip that has warmed up a cold case and already has been assigned to a police detective. It also may persuade authorities to expand biological tests on the unidentified bones, which are locked in a cabinet in the Dane County Medical Examiner's Office.

...

More at the link above...
 

Ambercat

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Detectives have speculated the man was a burglar who got stuck in the chimney and died, or a murder victim who was stuffed into the chimney. The pelvic bones of the mystery man had been severely fractured and those injuries appear to have been caused at the time of death.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/745umwi.html

https://identifyus.org/cases/4770

I really don't think a burglar would be wearing "low healed pointy shoes," they would make too much noise when he walked and attract attention.

Something of interest that I noticed from the Wisconsin State Journal was that it said --

I wonder how they came up with 93% exactly.
 

maggieo

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Yeah -- it seems like if they've done DNA analysis, they'd be a lot surer than 93% of the gender.

The fact that underwear is missing could be clue that this was a sex crime -- underwear taken as trophy, or that the body was dressed as a woman after the fact.

Honestly, with only 93% certainty that it's a man, missing women should be looked at as well.
 

Ambercat

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Yeah -- it seems like if they've done DNA analysis, they'd be a lot surer than 93% of the gender.

The fact that underwear is missing could be clue that this was a sex crime -- underwear taken as trophy, or that the body was dressed as a woman after the fact.

Honestly, with only 93% certainty that it's a man, missing women should be looked at as well.

I vaguely remember my mother watching a British mystery movie or mini-series where the murderer dressed the victim (his stepson) in women's clothing because he hated him after he had killed him when I was in high school, but that was fiction. I never thought about that happening in real life, but I guess it could.
 

ctaylor

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No new information sadly but a new article on this case. They are doing a really good job keeping this popping up in the news now and then..

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/ask/catching-up/catching-up-no-progress-on-cold-case-of-bones-found/article_b200433a-9fc4-11e2-a221-0019bb2963f4.html

Catching Up: No progress on cold case of bones found in chimney

April 07, 2013 4:00 pm • GEORGE HESSELBERG | Wisconsin State Journal |

The trail will probably always be a little warm, but the case is still cold.

Warm because a Madison police detective took pains over the past year to track down someone, anyone, with knowledge about the victim in one of Madison’s oldest unsolved death investigations: the bones in the chimney case.

Cold because the detective, Jennifer Mundt, while treading on some new ground, didn’t uncover anything.

...
 

alllads

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I really don't understand why they've uploaded such a bad image of the reconstruction on NamUS (and therefore on Doenetwork), since there is a clear one in the articles.

The image is massive, but here's the link: http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.town...d-001871e3ce6c/4f51438c2f7cc.preview-1024.jpg

The profile: http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.town...b-001871e3ce6c/4f51438d71202.preview-1024.jpg

There are detailed photos of the comb, the shoes, and the iron cross here: http://host.madison.com/gallery/pho...n_fe9ea93a-64b4-11e1-b395-001871e3ce6c.html#0
 

vermontaigne

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Given this is Madison, and given the layers this guy was wearing, I'm going to guess he was at a Halloween party. He had an Iron Cross, and decided that if he ducked into Salvation Army he could find a dress and shoes to make himself Eva Braun. This being Madison, he and his buddies get a head full of hallucinogens and decide it would be a cool prank to burglarize the record store (if I recall correctly from other articles, there was one in that building). They climb up the roof access ladder, he tries sliding down, falls too fast, breaks his pelvis and finds himself wedged in. When he starts screaming, his companions freak out and leave.
 

vermontaigne

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That cross is not an original German or Austro-Hungarian Iron Cross. These always had straight ends of the arms and a lot of the engravings.

Here you have the Austro-Hungarian Cross and here the German one, from the Nazi times.

The cross found with the skeleton might be some kind of replica, or something else.

Thanks. I just think it was close enough for costume purposes.

Here's a link for what happens on State Street at the University of Wisconsin for Halloween.
 

FiveFelines

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Here's a link to some other (older) articles about this case. Of note:

a different, computer-generated recreation of the UID

Age estimated at 20 to 22

Pelvic fractures might be result of someone stomping on his genitals or from going in the chimney

The record store went in only about six weeks before he was found. It was previously the site of a Christian bookstore called the Bread Shop for six years.

http://www.surroundedbyreality.com/Misc/Know/SkeletonC.asp
 

FiveFelines

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I don't see any rule-outs on Namus. The obvious matches seem like Dahmer's suspected victims, but it doesn't fit his MO.

I'm thinking this UID isn't listed on any missing persons sites. My only possible suggestion is this guy. The height is off (and he has a partial denture for one tooth) but he disappeared from Decatur, IL, which is almost directly south (4 hours on the highway) from Madison. Since he escaped from a mental hospital, I suppose it's possible he was dressing as a woman to hide.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/4618dmil.html
 

FiveFelines

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I think the fact that the building was a Christian bookstore is interesting. To me, it sort of suggests that robbery (via chimney) was not a motive. I'm also a little skeptical of the theory that he was killed by someone who discovered he wasn't really a woman. Did you see those shoes? Not exactly transvestite worthy, IMO. They look more like part of a costume.
 

amateur_sleuth

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I think the fact that the building was a Christian bookstore is interesting. To me, it sort of suggests that robbery (via chimney) was not a motive. I'm also a little skeptical of the theory that he was killed by someone who discovered he wasn't really a woman. Did you see those shoes? Not exactly transvestite worthy, IMO. They look more like part of a costume.

I agree with you on the shoes. They don't fit with the rest of the outfit. He was wearing women's clothes, but the shoes look like they could possibly be men's shoes.
 

amateur_sleuth

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Has LE explored the possibility that the UID could have been a local college student? The location he was found isn't far from The University of Wisconsin, Madison. Have they ever contacted students and faculty who would have been there around the time of this man's death? I didn't see that anyone had pursued this angle.
 
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