Witness accounts

[stmarysmead]

If TM was only gong to be gone for 10 minutes and then come back to watch some sporting event, how is it that the New Brother was not concerned when hours went by? And if this all occured so close to the condo, and neighbors were coming out, sirens, ambulences, all that commotion...and New Brother never heard any of it? Or told Dad...or he would not have called the Juvenile Jail facility FIRST.

Was this other young man even home waiting for the Skittles? Did he NOT expect TM back at all?

 

[suzihawk]

Pardon me, Tracy had his girlfriend call juvie "just to check and see if anyone by the name of Trayvon Martin had been picked up . . ” then his "next call was to the Seminole County Sheriff’s Department to see if any kid had been picked up."

http://www.stlamerican.com/news/local_news/article_2955e1e2-7753-11e1-a23a-001871e3ce6c.html

Also from your link:

“I had been out to dinner. When we got back between 10:15 and 10:45, he wasn’t at home. The night before, he had been to the movies with my nephew, who had recently moved up to the Orlando area from Miami. Every time Trayvon would come up here, they would find something to do, usually they would go to dinner. My nephew is 20 years old, a very responsible young man. So there was not panic at that moment that he was not home. I made several attempts to call his cell phone and it was going straight to voicemail. I called my nephew’s cell phone and it was going straight to voicemail. So at that point, I figured they had been in the movies because they would always go to the movies.”
------------

(The OP was questioning why his father wasn't looking for him that night.)

 

[Karmady]

If TM was only gong to be gone for 10 minutes and then come back to watch some sporting event, how is it that the New Brother was not concerned when hours went by? And if this all occured so close to the condo, and neighbors were coming out, sirens, ambulences, all that commotion...and New Brother never heard any of it? Or told Dad...or he would not have called the Juvenile Jail facility FIRST.

Was this other young man even home waiting for the Skittles? Did he NOT expect TM back at all?

a total mystery...

 

[Karmady]

Also from your link:

“I had been out to dinner. When we got back between 10:15 and 10:45, he wasn’t at home. The night before, he had been to the movies with my nephew, who had recently moved up to the Orlando area from Miami. Every time Trayvon would come up here, they would find something to do, usually they would go to dinner. My nephew is 20 years old, a very responsible young man. So there was not panic at that moment that he was not home. I made several attempts to call his cell phone and it was going straight to voicemail. I called my nephew’s cell phone and it was going straight to voicemail. So at that point, I figured they had been in the movies because they would always go to the movies.”
------------

(The OP was questioning why his father wasn't looking for him that night.)

I'm looking forward to hearing from the responsible cousin. He's been keeping a pretty low profile compared to the rest of the family.

 

[wowitsdark]

I really believe his first intentions were good but something went wrong when he decided to forget about everything he knew he was suppose to do. Not whether or not it's a right to follow someone. He knew the difference. He knew not to do it but did it anyway knowing full well he could be putting the lives of others in harms way. I can't believe you attend a gun class and are not taught don't go looking for trouble. Carrying a gun has special responsibilities that we non-gunning carrying people do not have to worry about. We certainly are no danger to the public at large unless you consider an umbrella a lethal weapon. jmo

I believe that he knew he was not to intervene or attempt to make contact with someone he was watching.

But I also believe that once someone disappears from view, they cannot be *watched* any longer.

If GZ's only intention was to position himself so he could continue to watch - to move past a building so that the sidewalk down which TM had turned would be in full view - then I do not believe he could be characterized as 'looking for trouble.' I think he was just looking for the *whereabouts* of TM, not looking to have any exchange with him, verbal, physical, or otherwise.

GZ's past behavior as a NW person is surely relevant, and unless I am mistaken, in the 40+ calls he made previously, he didn't ever attempt contact with a suspicious person.

Last year on a Sunday night, we had a house full of teenagers. As they were leaving, some standing right inside the front door, some out in the yard, suddenly in their midst was an Hispanic man, mid 20's, with a sports drink bottle in his hand that had orange duct tape all around it. He waked into our home. The visiting teens thought he was our neighbor. My own three teens momentarily thought he was somebody the other kids knew, but quickly figured out he was a stranger, and he seemed to be on drugs. He was very confused and had trouble opening our door to leave. There were no adults present - my husband had gone to bed, and I had run some books down to the book drop at the library.

When I returned, the man had already left, as had our kids' friends... and my three were pretty freaked out. "Mom, there was this guy, and we think he was on drugs, and he was in our HOUSE and we didn't know what to do to get him to leave and you and dad weren't here (they didn't know their dad was home in bed with a headache - they thought he was golfing) and...!"

I called the police. I turned out the lights in our house and sat in my dining room watching out the window. The police came and talked to the kids, etc..

The police began to patrol our neighborhood. I had one errand I had to run (it was about 10:00 PM). I locked the doors and left the house in our car, which was in our attached garage, putting the door down as I pulled out.

When I pulled back up to our house not five minutes later (small town - quick errands! ) a man fitting the description my teens had given me was in my driveway. I had already hit the button to put the door up as I was approaching and he began running into my garage. I pulled into the drive, shined my lights on him, and he took off running down the street towards a corner.

And you'd better believe I followed him from a distance, even around a corner, so I could see where he was going. I had NO intentions of getting near him or speaking to him, but I knew the police were near and I wanted to be able to point and say, "THAT HOUSE! HE'S BEHIND THAT HOUSE!!"

As it turned out, the man was mentally retarded, and had escaped from a group home.

I only tell 'my' story because it's an example of what can go through the mind of someone who is concerned about a stranger in their own neighborhood and who wants to WATCH that stranger - whatever it takes - until the police arrive. Not talk to. Not approach. Not encounter. Just *watch*.

And I do believe that is what GZ was attempting to do when he walked in the direction TM had gone. Not to talk to, encounter, or approach, but to *watch*. From afar. Until the police arrived.

 

[BiancaS]

I missed this part of this article when I first saw it. This is from one of the witnesses (the second acquaintance is the Middle Eastern man that worked with George, addressed elsewhere):

"Two acquaintances painted an unflattering picture of Zimmerman in police interviews.

A distraught woman told an investigator that she stays away from Zimmerman because he’s racist and because of things he’s done to her in the past, but she didn’t elaborate on what happened between them.

“I don’t at all know who this kid was or anything else. But I know George, and I know that he does not like black people. He would start something. He’s very confrontational. It’s in his blood. We’ll just say that,” the unidentified woman says in an audio recording."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...defense-claim-article-1.1080487#ixzz1vTPoXZfg

 

[stmarysmead]

I believe that he knew he was not to intervene or attempt to make contact with someone he was watching.

But I also believe that once someone disappears from view, they cannot be *watched* any longer.

If GZ's only intention was to position himself so he could continue to watch - to move past a building so that the sidewalk down which TM had turned would be in full view - then I do not believe he could be characterized as 'looking for trouble.' I think he was just looking for the *whereabouts* of TM, not looking to have any exchange with him, verbal, physical, or otherwise.

GZ's past behavior as a NW person is surely relevant, and unless I am mistaken, in the 40+ calls he made previously, he didn't ever attempt contact with a suspicious person.

Last year on a Sunday night, we had a house full of teenagers. As they were leaving, some standing right inside the front door, some out in the yard, suddenly in their midst was an Hispanic man, mid 20's, with a sports drink bottle in his hand that had orange duct tape all around it. He waked into our home. The visiting teens thought he was our neighbor. My own three teens momentarily thought he was somebody the other kids knew, but quickly figured out he was a stranger, and he seemed to be on drugs. He was very confused and had trouble opening our door to leave. There were no adults present - my husband had gone to bed, and I had run some books down to the book drop at the library.

When I returned, the man had already left, as had our kids' friends... and my three were pretty freaked out. "Mom, there was this guy, and we think he was on drugs, and he was in our HOUSE and we didn't know what to do to get him to leave and you and dad weren't here (they didn't know their dad was home in bed with a headache - they thought he was golfing) and...!"

I called the police. I turned out the lights in our house and sat in my dining room watching out the window. The police came and talked to the kids, etc..

The police began to patrol our neighborhood. I had one errand I had to run (it was about 10:00 PM). I locked the doors and left the house in our car, which was in our attached garage, putting the door down as I pulled out.

When I pulled back up to our house not five minutes later (small town - quick errands! ) a man fitting the description my teens had given me was in my driveway. I had already hit the button to put the door up as I was approaching and he began running into my garage. I pulled into the drive, shined my lights on him, and he took off running down the street towards a corner.

And you'd better believe I followed him from a distance, even around a corner, so I could see where he was going. I had NO intentions of getting near him or speaking to him, but I knew the police were near and I wanted to be able to point and say, "THAT HOUSE! HE'S BEHIND THAT HOUSE!!"

As it turned out, the man was mentally retarded, and had escaped from a group home.

I only tell 'my' story because it's an example of what can go through the mind of someone who is concerned about a stranger in their own neighborhood and who wants to WATCH that stranger - whatever it takes - until the police arrive. Not talk to. Not approach. Not encounter. Just *watch*.

And I do believe that is what GZ was attempting to do when he walked in the direction TM had gone. Not to talk to, encounter, or approach, but to *watch*. From afar. Until the police arrived.

Wonderful post. Many of us have similar stories. Thank you.

 

[BiancaS]

I'm looking forward to hearing from the responsible cousin. He's been keeping a pretty low profile compared to the rest of the family.

The only family members that have spoken, as far as I have seen, are Tracy, Sybrina, and Trayvon's brother. This cousin would have nothing to add to the evidence, he was not with Trayvon that night (unfortunately, if he had been at the movies he would be alive today). MOO.

 

[Karmady]

I missed this part of this article when I first saw it. This is from one of the witnesses (the second acquaintance is the Middle Eastern man that worked with George, addressed elsewhere):

"Two acquaintances painted an unflattering picture of Zimmerman in police interviews.

A distraught woman told an investigator that she stays away from Zimmerman because he’s racist and because of things he’s done to her in the past, but she didn’t elaborate on what happened between them.

“I don’t at all know who this kid was or anything else. But I know George, and I know that he does not like black people. He would start something. He’s very confrontational. It’s in his blood. We’ll just say that,” the unidentified woman says in an audio recording."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...defense-claim-article-1.1080487#ixzz1vTPoXZfg

The other one is, imo, the anonymous voicemail (?) in the State's production. In which case, unless she comes forward, her statement is completely irrelevant and non-credible, imo.

 

[wowitsdark]

I think there are couples today who just drift apart, one goes one way and one goes another. She certainly does not sound bitter so I take it is mutual agreement to end their marriage. BG seems to know TM pretty well so this is not a new relationship. I think the stepmother was assumed by the media interview because it was mentioned that BG's son looked up to TM as a big brother and BG said he was like a son to her. It's possible the ex is the one who wanted out of the marriage. In that case I'd say "girlfriend" would be more appropriate. jmo

I have seen the place TM was staying referred to as, "His father's girlfriend's (or fiance's) house."

Did TM's father live there?

I have not heard anyone state that he was staying "at his dad's house."

His parents seem close in their shared grief.

Are there any other full-bio siblings to Trayvon?

And do we know that TM's parents were at one time married?

 

[Karmady]

The only family members that have spoken, as far as I have seen, are Tracy, Sybrina, and Trayvon's brother. This cousin would have nothing to add to the evidence, he was not with Trayvon that night (unfortunately, if he had been at the movies he would be alive today). MOO.

Trayvon's brother didn't have anything to directly add to the evidence, either. And maybe the cousin spoke to Trayvon on the phone or texted with him that night, we don't know. Sounds like Tracy thought it was very likely. He may also be a character witness since, according to Tracy, they spent time together when Trayvon was in Sanford.

btw, I was including the current and prospective brides of Mr. Martin, and Trayvon's soon-to-be little brother in his *family.* I don't think Trayvon has any other immediate famiily members who might be expected to speak out on his behalf.

 

[BiancaS]

I have seen the place TM was staying referred to as, "His father's girlfriend's (or fiance's) house."

Did TM's father live there?

I have not heard anyone state that he was staying "at his dad's house."

His parents seem close in their shared grief.

Are there any other full-bio siblings to Trayvon?

And do we know that TM's parents were at one time married?

I cannot find links at this point, it has been too long, but Trayvon's parents both live in Miami, purposely living close to each other so they could co-parent Trayvon. His father visited his girlfriend in Orlando fairly frequently and sometimes brought Trayvon with him, especially since his cousin had recently moved from Miami to Orlando and Trayvon was close with him. Some of the kids in the neighborhood knew him and said they had played football with him during his visits. I have never read anything about the last two questions, but I believe Trayvon is Tracy's only child as I have never seen another child mentioned. MOO.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I believe there is some suspicion with regards to the reports made Officer Timothy Smith, first officer on the scene, and that is why two passages from his incident report are blacked out in the "discovery dump". However, I was able to find the contents of his blacked out passages on the original police reports that were made public a while back, here is the link :

http://www.scribd.com/doc/87828890/Sanford-FL-police-report-on-Trayvon-Martin

In the 1st passage that is blacked out (in discovery dump), Officer Smith writes (february 27th :
"Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I overheard him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me. At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police department where he was questioned by investigators.

Here is the interview of the SFD parademic who attended to Zimmerman. The DA makes a point ask him if Zimmerman made any statements to him, his reply was no.

http://axiomamnesia.com/2012/05/18/...ase-witness-interviews-statements-full-audio/

In the 2nd passage that is blacked out (in discovery dump), Officer Smith writes(february 27th) :
"Zimmerman was placed in an interview room at SPD, where he was interviewed by Investigator D. Singleton. Zimmerman was turned over to investigations and this was the extent of my involvement in this case."

However, Officer T. Smith files a supplemental on March 1st to his initial report, that is now available for viewing in the "document dump", noting that he was in contact from the time he secured Zimmerman on the scene until the time he was released from investigative detention, citing monitoring Zimmerman's health...interesting !

A very interesting post that goes along with the topic of the thread.

 

[suzihawk]

I have seen the place TM was staying referred to as, "His father's girlfriend's (or fiance's) house."

Did TM's father live there?

I have not heard anyone state that he was staying "at his dad's house."

His parents seem close in their shared grief.

Are there any other full-bio siblings to Trayvon?

And do we know that TM's parents were at one time married?

What do any of those question have to do with Zimmerman shooting Trayvon?

(Checking the thread title. Yup, it says "Witness Accounts".)

 

[wowitsdark]

And I ask again...if your son is sent to you for paternal guidance (paraphrasing Mom)....after 3 suspensions from the second school in a year....where was Dad that night...and why did the "brother" not wonder where TM was if it truly was a quick trip for Skittles? And why , when he never came home...did New Brother not tell the parents? And why didn't dad know TM was not in that small condo.

And why did new Brother not hear all the commotion. Was he even there?
more "mysteries." Maybe the Defense needs to probe them too.

I don't find the younger boy being unaware all that unusual, unless he was at home waiting anxiously for TM to return so they could watch the game together.

When my older son goes somewhere, my younger son never notices. They don't report to each other or on each other, really. They get along great, but when one is playing the computer, reading a book, etc., they are somewhat oblivious to the other coming and going.

TM supposedly had a cousin in the neighborhood. If he had been known to hook up with the cousin and go off and do things, or stop in at the cousin's house, the younger boy may have assumed that's what he was up to.

Do we know exactly how long TM had been staying there? Was that his first night? Or was he a week into a two-week suspension?

I do find it interesting that dad was leaving him alone, letting him go out alone on foot to a convenience store a mile away, etc., when he was staying there temporarily and in need of parental oversight. I guess if TM was going to stay at the house there for two months and he was a month into it, it might not be unthinkable for dad to go out with the girlfriend... but it sounds like TM was a kid who needed a strong male role model.

I guess I'm just saying that if my kids had gotten in trouble to that extent, they likely would not have the privilege of hanging out alone, phone in hand, walking the neighborhood getting snacks.

I saw an interview online with a witness from the neighborhood who felt very guilty that TM had died right under her nose and she never knew it was going on. She indicated that she knew him well and that they had a great rapport. I had not been under the impression that he would have been that well known there.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

What do any of those question have to do with Zimmerman shooting Trayvon?

(Checking the thread title. Yup, it says "Witness Accounts".)

And WTH does it matter whether his parents were ever married? Sheesh.

 

[BiancaS]

Not sure this is the right thread to post this in, or GZ injuries. Oh well, her it goes.. Here is what I read in 2 of the witness reports which gets me to think that maybe some of GZ injuries were due to possibly falling into a bush, or trip and fall on the ground while pursing TM.

In short:
Witness: "heard a scuffle or rustling of BUSHES coming from behind his residence"

Witness: Saw a man lying on the ground that looked like they couldn't get up and was yelling for help. He looked to have a red shirt on. Didn't hear any arguing or see anyone else"

Makes me wonder if George was yelling for help because he fell and hurt himself?????

I only wish we could ask Trayvon, but after seeing the injuries, I think that their scuffle might have involved GZ falling into the bushes, getting scratched in the process. Perhaps...while trying to keep Trayvon from leaving the area, he could have grabbed Trayvon and Trayvon pushed him away?? That could also have angered him to the point that he let things escalate with Trayvon. MOO. Just trying to put together some logical (to me) things that could have happened to cause the unusual injuries.

 

[wowitsdark]

What do any of those question have to do with Zimmerman shooting Trayvon?

(Checking the thread title. Yup, it says "Witness Accounts".)

Sorry - you're right, I did go off topic. I was just following others down the wrong road.

In my next post, I mentioned that a witness I saw interviewed on tv indicated that she knew TM well and thought he was a very nice kid, etc.. She was from the neighborhood where he was shot.

For her to be that familiar with him I would think he was there fairly often, which is why I wondered if that was his dad's house, also. It would seem unusual for Mom to have trouble with son and ship him off to ex's girlfriend's house, kwim?

But if it's also where Dad lives, and that neighbor I saw on tv was familiar with him, it's *possible* that GZ should have / might have recognized him as a 'regular' in the neighborhood. The hoodie would have made it difficult to see him well, though.

 

[Karmady]

A very interesting post that goes along with the topic of the thread.

I think it should probably go in the thread for the prosecution's evidence or the doc dump, unless LE is considered to be a witness. Personally, I assumed this thread was for third-party witnesses. Regardless, I saw the initial post and didn't see what was so interesting about the quoted part. I do love Denny's though -- the restaurant, not the poster. Although I'm sure he or she is very nice, too

 

[BiancaS]

And I ask again...if your son is sent to you for paternal guidance (paraphrasing Mom)....after 3 suspensions from the second school in a year....where was Dad that night...and why did the "brother" not wonder where TM was if it truly was a quick trip for Skittles? And why , when he never came home...did New Brother not tell the parents? And why didn't dad know TM was not in that small condo.

And why did new Brother not hear all the commotion. Was he even there?
more "mysteries." Maybe the Defense needs to probe them too.

We do NOT know there were 3 suspensions, there were some very suspicious leaked stories to the Miami Herald that others picked up and ran with. No one has ever confirmed there was more than one suspension. Your questions have been asked and answered many times (most recently tonight) and there is nothing suspicious or mysterious about the answers.