Work Gloves...used in the crime?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Toltec, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    Has anyone read this part of the interrogation of John? Mr. Levin asks John if he had ever owned work gloves. I know this question was asked of John in a previous interrogation. Do these work gloves have any significance in the murder of JonBenet Ramsey?


    9 Q. (By Mr. Levin) While Mr. Kane is

    10 looking for that on his computer, Mr. Ramsey,

    11 I am interested, and this is concerning

    12 events, obviously, that precede 1998, but it

    13 is based on information developed after the

    14 grand jury was convened. I am interested,

    15 if you would, please tell us what types, if

    16 any, work gloves you own, whether you kept

    17 them in the house, on the plane, in the car,

    18 it doesn't matter, but just identify them by

    19 their location.

    20 A. I don't remember that I owned any

    21 work gloves. I don't normally wear work

    22 gloves.

    23 Q. So just to clarify, you are

    24 saying that your recollection is that you did

    25 not or you are just unsure because of the

    0052

    1 passage of time?

    2 A. I don't remember. I mean, I

    3 don't normally wear work gloves. I've had

    4 work gloves from time to time, but I

    5 don't -- I can't specifically remember that I

    6 had any then or if I did what they were

    7 like.

    8 I had a pair here that were gray,

    9 and I bought those at Home Depot, and God

    10 knows where they are now. So they kind of

    11 come and go.

    12 Q. So it wasn't your routine habit

    13 or practice to keep a pair of work gloves in

    14 your cars if you needed to change a tire

    15 or --

    16 A. (Witness shook head negatively).

    17 Q. -- or on your plane if you needed

    18 to do something where you would kind of get

    19 dirtied up?

    20 A. No. I am not qualified to work

    21 on my airplane, my former airplane
     
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  3. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    9 Q. (By Mr. Levin) While Mr. Kane is

    10 looking for that on his computer, Mr. Ramsey,

    11 I am interested, and this is concerning

    12 events, obviously, that precede 1998, but it

    13 is based on information developed after the

    14 grand jury was convened. I am interested,

    15 if you would, please tell us what types, if

    16 any, work gloves you own, whether you kept

    17 them in the house, on the plane, in the car,

    18 it doesn't matter, but just identify them by

    19 their location.

    20 A. I don't remember that I owned any

    21 work gloves. I don't normally wear work

    22 gloves.

    23 Q. So just to clarify, you are

    24 saying that your recollection is that you did

    25 not or you are just unsure because of the

    0052

    1 passage of time?

    2 A. I don't remember. I mean, I

    3 don't normally wear work gloves. I've had

    4 work gloves from time to time, but I

    5 don't -- I can't specifically remember that I

    6 had any then or if I did what they were

    7 like.

    8 I had a pair here that were gray,

    9 and I bought those at Home Depot, and God

    10 knows where they are now. So they kind of

    11 come and go.

    12 Q. So it wasn't your routine habit

    13 or practice to keep a pair of work gloves in

    14 your cars if you needed to change a tire

    15 or --

    16 A. (Witness shook head negatively).

    17 Q. -- or on your plane if you needed

    18 to do something where you would kind of get

    19 dirtied up?

    20 A. No. I am not qualified to work

    21 on my airplane, my former airplane[/quote]

    Toltec,
    They probably do. Looks like some gloves were discovered and the investigators are indirectly wanting to eliminate the R's by asking directly, consider the size-12's, did the intruder bring these into the house etc.

    .
     
  4. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    It wouldn't surprise me to find work gloves at the house even if they didn't belong to JR. They had a gardener/landscaper, didn't they? They had workmen at the house sometimes.
     
  5. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    snipped and BBM:

    but it

    13 is based on information developed after the

    14 grand jury was convened.


    This part interests me very much. I wonder who would have testified to the GJ about these work gloves? Also, could there have been work glove fibers on or around her body and this was testified to?It would be wonderful to get a glimpse of some of the evidence that we have never seen. I can't help but feel that all the answers are in that evidence and nobody in Boulder has the gumption to go up against the Ramsey dream team. FGS, have a little faith in the judicial system and present this case to a jury! Yes, I know it will never happen because it's almost 5 years too late now.
     
  6. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    joeskidbeck,
    Well just as enlightening is:
    This more or less confirms they have gloves that link with the crime-scene, note John is never asked basement, your den, maybe your bedroom etc, just general locations.

    This might suggest third party assistance with the staging? Maybe the person who cleaned the flashlight decided to wear gloves but had already touched the flashlight.

    It would make sense whomever carried JonBenet down to the basement should wear gloves, no point in taking forensic risks!


    .
     
  7. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    We know that Patsy had admitted to keeping latex gloves in the home for when she dyed her hair, so she would not have needed to use work gloves. I think you are right in that work gloves were found somewhere on the property and presented at the GJ. I'd be willing to bet they were brown as JR is pretty quick to point out that he once owned gray ones!
     
  8. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    :great: size-12?


    .
     
  9. Agatha_C

    Agatha_C New Member

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    Beck, let us not forget the medical supplies they would still have had in the house, in the drawer, in JAR's room. I would bet the farm, latex gloves were part of those supplies.
     
  10. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    Weren't unsourced "tan/brown" cotton fibers found on the body? Some theories feel they may be from the tan cotton body of an Amercan Girl doll (specifically, the duct tape thay may have been on the back of the doll's neck). If LE has the work gloves, they also have the ability to test them against the tan/brown fibers. However, they do not have the doll. Those dolls do not come with the duct tape- the parent has to put the tape on the doll over the neck cord knot. If JB's doll had the tape, there would be glue residue on the back of the doll's neck. Could THIS be the reason the new doll was ordered: to replace the doll that had the tape put on? The new doll would have no such residue. But the adhesive on the back of the tape from JB's mouth could have been matches against the adhesive residue on the doll IF LE had the doll. Maybe LE asked for the doll (like they asked for the clothes the Rs were wearing that day). Maybe the new doll was intended to be substituted for the actual doll (like the Rs were thought to have substituted new or laundered clothes for the ones they were wearing that night.
     
  11. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    DeeDee, I thought I remembered something about tan/brown fibers. Maybe they think the killer was wearing tan or brown gloves while handling the duct tape. I wish Boulder LE would read here. Then maybe they could solve this case!
     
  12. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    Maybe they do read here. Hope so. Unless they dislike reading the catalog of incompetence that defined this case.
     
  13. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    DeeDee249,
    Yes you could be correct. What you suggest is cogent and consistent.

    Also here is an interesting link with the color brown is:
    Patsy's Atlanta 2000 Interview, excerpt
    So if they do not have the gloves but simply the fibers then it may be a line of questioning they are pursuing, thinking the person who placed the tape over JonBenet's lips was wearing gloves?


    .
     
  14. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    That just really gets to me....why LE would give Patsy an opportunity to think of something to make up.

    She was ready to say John had some work gloves...but then she was cut off. This type of questioning is just totalally inflaming.
     
  15. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    Believe me, my blood pressure skyrockets every time I read those interviews. Not only because of the Rs answers, but because of the way LE drops the ball on nearly EVERY important line of questioning.
     
  16. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    this thread reminds me of something I've been thinking about lately.
    I never thought she was assaulted with that paintbrush,her injuries are consistent with digital penetration.the paintbrush would have caused way much more damage AND different kinds of injuries.
    so IMO it was transfer,whoever broke/touched it ,touched JB afterwards.
    but this would mean she was touched down there AFTER the paintbrush was broken.
    how does this fit in the timeline,it's so confusing.again.
    cause she was alive when hurt down there.what was that person who did it doing with the paintbrush BEFORE.
     
  17. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    Madeliene, you just made an excellent point. I too have always wondered about the damage to her "privates". Wonder if someone broke the paintbrush with the intention of stabbing her with it? Also wonder what the end of the paintbrush handle looks like. Could this be the object that made the unidentified marks (the ones IDI attribute to a stun gun)? It could be that the killer just couldn't stab JonBenet and then decided on strangulation. Also, could the damage to her privates have been made with a work-gloved finger? Just spitballing here, there are so many questionable areas in this case.
     
  18. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    Reading PMPT....came upon this last night:


    Spitz examined the four slides of tissue taken from JonBenet's vaginal area and discussed with Weinheimer (detective) and Faure (coroners investigator) what the coroner had observed about the head injury, strangulation, and vaginal cavity. After reviewing the slides, Spitz repeated his opinion: the injury to JonBenet's vagina had happened either at or immediately prior to her death - not earlier.
     
  19. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    How in the world could they not see what is so obvious to the rest of us? I am really starting to think they did see every bit of it and LE was absolutely powerless against the DA's office. Now that there is a new DA he needs to prosecute someone for the cover-up of this crime!
     
  20. Agatha_C

    Agatha_C New Member

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    Beck,

    Its my opinion, that who ever broke the paint brush, was trying to hide the fact, that it was a paint brush.
     
  21. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    it's like S.Singular said,they were afraid (DA) to go down that road....anything that had to do with JB being assaulted.....they didn't wanna investigate ANYTHING that had to do with this,not pedo rings,not people close to JB.it's like it didn't happen.

    WHY.

    now it's fact that she was assaulted that night and it's possible that it happened before.
    murder and molestation,just a coincidence??how dumb are they??

    I will never get it!they just closed their eyes and pretended it didn't happen.like the Ramseys.

    i told you,this is just my opinion but something stinks IMO re the way ST handled this and told JR you can't know,you weren't there.why did he give him the pass after a panel of docs told him she was previously abused??????????????????????????????maybe ST and JR had a deal,pin it on the wife.not so sure this didn't happen,it doesn't make any sense why the men in the family were given the pass if we deal with prior abuse!!!
     

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