Would it have been impossible for Patsy to have been jealous of JonBenet?

Would it have been impossible for Patsy to have been jealous of JonBenet?


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KarenUK

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I think she may have had a pang of jealously on occassions, but I think the pageants were as much for Patsy than they were Jonbenet, perhaps even more so - she got to carry on with the whole scene, mix with the other mothers and be proud and show off about her beautiful daughter. I don't think jealiusy had anything to do with her murder, if it was Patsy (and I genuinely am undeicded on this one, I'm 50/50 between her and Burke) to me it would have been a rage thing after a long stressful build up to Christmas and the day, the thought of an early flight in the morning, and her just snapping when Jonbenet wet the bed again
 

Waterdog

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All I know is a parent can't be jealous of their child and also truly love them. A jealous parent doesn't spoil their children.

*A loving parent may also not spoil their children, because they don't want them to be brats, but not because they're jealous.

*A jealous parent can cause irreparable emotional damage on a child. It happened to my mother.
 

Bestieuk

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Could it be possible that patsy was jealous of jonbenet for how successful she was in her pageants and the fact that patsys mother referred to jonbenet as the future miss America which patsy failed to achieve and killed her in a jealous rage after hearing about how well jonbenet was doing in her pageants and possible future success and comments saying that jonbenet might achieve what patsy failed to do?
 

Trebor5591

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I just don't see that happening. If Patsy was jealous of jonbenet, and I can't even picture a grown woman being jealous of a 6 year old girl, it would have manifested in countless small and catty ways--not in a horrific killing. MOO
 

Bestieuk

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M
I just don't see that happening. If Patsy was jealous of jonbenet, and I can't even picture a grown woman being jealous of a 6 year old girl, it would have manifested in countless small and catty ways--not in a horrific killing. MOO

Maybe it did manifest over time and maybe patsy eventually lost it, let me set a scenario, while they were at the whites patsy might have had jonbenet put on a little show for the guests and comments could have been made regarding jonbenet being the possible miss America and achieving what patsy failed to do, the comments would have been said in kindness and not intended to hurt patsys feelings but due to alcohol intoxication mixed with anti depressants could have had a negative effect on her thought process and the comments could have made her feel inadequate, a failure and embarrassed which could have made her seeth with anger, then when they got home while eating pineapple jonbenet might have said mummy I don't want to do pageants anymore I just want to play with my friends and patsy lost it and did the unthinkable, parents have been known to get jealous of their children and resort to abuse and even murder because of being jealous, it has been known to happen.... this is just a theory of course. ...
 

Bestieuk

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I just don't see that happening. If Patsy was jealous of jonbenet, and I can't even picture a grown woman being jealous of a 6 year old girl, it would have manifested in countless small and catty ways--not in a horrific killing. MOO

Also add into the equation of how jonbenets grandmother, patsys mother often introduced jonbenet to her friends and associates as the future miss America, which was probably said in front of patsy and people who knew that she didn't win the crown countless times which on the inside could have again made her feel inadequate, a failure, an embarrassment and resentment towards jonbenet, plus her mother was into the beauty pageant scene too and over the years could have been nasty towards patsy for failing to be crowned miss America and some mothers are really hostile if their child fails their expectations and patsys mum could have said things like jonbenet will achieve what you couldn't causing patsy to resent, hate and become jealous of jonbenet. ...
 

Bestieuk

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Another scenario could be that patsy took religious verses to fit her own line of thinking and during her fight with cancer started having delusional thoughts, I think she was in stage 4 of her cancer which is usually fatal but she went into remission and in her own words said that it was divine intervention, perhaps in a delusional state of thinking and in her own mind she was offered to be healed of her cancer in return that she sacrificed her daughter which could be why psalm 118 came into the equation which speaks of binding the sacrifice with cords, plus jonbenet was killed on the 26th of December which is a sacrificial day made up by the nazi called mengele?
 

Trebor5591

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I don't believe we will ever find out who killed that poor little girl. I just can not believe that it was the mother. And she is dead now, so we will never find out. I can't help but think that the case was bungled from the very beginning by Bolder Police Department, so badly bungled that it can not be recovered. RIP Jon Benet Ramsey.
 

David Rogers

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I don't believe we will ever find out who killed that poor little girl. I just can not believe that it was the mother. And she is dead now, so we will never find out. I can't help but think that the case was bungled from the very beginning by Bolder Police Department, so badly bungled that it can not be recovered. RIP Jon Benet Ramsey.
If it was the mother alone it would have come out by now. It is either the son which can’t be named or the father they are hoping to convict.
 

David Rogers

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How do you reckon?

The only person to know would be John Ramsey and as long as he doesn't open his mouth, no one will ever know.
The police know, the grand jury knows, and the scientists who did the tests know. Someone should have leaked something.
 

UKGuy

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How do you reckon?

The only person to know would be John Ramsey and as long as he doesn't open his mouth, no one will ever know.

cascade,
The only person to know would be John Ramsey and as long as he doesn't open his mouth, no one will ever know.

How about the Paugh family knowing, like Patsy's sister?

Then there is Burke Ramsey who was actually present in the house when JonBenet was murdered.

Burke Ramsey definitely knows who murdered JonBenet, particularly if it was not himself!

He can work it all out, Sherlock Holmes style, by simple elimination.

.
 

cascade

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As I see it, there are only three persons with potential first-hand knowledge as to what happened to JonBenet Ramsey: those three present when her death occured, John, Patsy and Burke.

I tend to believe that Burke was in fact asleep when JonBenet died and was anyway too young and impressionable to make sense of the things happening around him when he awoke. By now he must have an inkling though.

Patsy is no longer alive. So that leaves John as the only one left with first-hand knowledge, the only one who really knows what happened and he's not talking.

So if it was Patsy, we wouldn't necessarily know about it. It's entirely possible to keep that secret and take it to the grave.
 

UKGuy

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As I see it, there are only three persons with potential first-hand knowledge as to what happened to JonBenet Ramsey: those three present when her death occured, John, Patsy and Burke.

I tend to believe that Burke was in fact asleep when JonBenet died and was anyway too young and impressionable to make sense of the things happening around him when he awoke. By now he must have an inkling though.

Patsy is no longer alive. So that leaves John as the only one left with first-hand knowledge, the only one who really knows what happened and he's not talking.

So if it was Patsy, we wouldn't necessarily know about it. It's entirely possible to keep that secret and take it to the grave.

cascade,
Burke can work it all out by what his father expects him to say in public.

Patsy's sister will also know as she helped remove forensic evidence from the house.

John might not be talking, but the forensic evidence once it is released into the public domain might.

The forensic evidence suggests Patsy ligature asphyxiated JonBenet, so maybe the case is 100% PDI, with Patsy using BR as a shield?

.
 

Rain on my Parade

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The forensic evidence suggests Patsy ligature asphyxiated JonBenet, so maybe the case is 100% PDI, with Patsy using BR as a shield?

UKGuy,

Yes, this seems plausible. Yet, there are questions.

What about the blood found on the Barbie nightgown, found in the wine cellar; with Burke’s touch dna on it. Locations that also match PR touch dna. Why was BR touch dna found on JB nightgown when there is no reasoning for it except involvement?

The only bleeding produced other then the abrasions found on JB body, happened via SA. Meaning JB was SA not only while she was alive but also either wearing or laying on her Barbie nightgown. If the wine cellar was a depository why was the nightgown found in the WC but not the size 6 underwear or the pink pajama bottoms?

There is evidence linking JR to the crime scene. Seems unfortunate for him since he left no prints on the RN. Also, why would he need to fly his family out of Boulder to Atlanta for a very important meeting that he had to attend? He made this decision while JB body was lying in the living room; moments after he found her deceased? The plan that morning was to fly out to Michigan.
 

OldBackstop

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Could it be possible that patsy was jealous of jonbenet for how successful she was in her pageants and the fact that patsys mother referred to jonbenet as the future miss America which patsy failed to achieve and killed her in a jealous rage after hearing about how well jonbenet was doing in her pageants and possible future success and comments saying that jonbenet might achieve what patsy failed to do?

Quite the opposite, she was living vicariously through her.
 

candleinthewindow

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Could it be possible that patsy was jealous of jonbenet for how successful she was in her pageants and the fact that patsys mother referred to jonbenet as the future miss America which patsy failed to achieve and killed her in a jealous rage after hearing about how well jonbenet was doing in her pageants and possible future success and comments saying that jonbenet might achieve what patsy failed to do?

not trying to be mean but jonbenet wasn't very successful (yet).
if you know about how pageants were back then, you'll know she hadn't done many yet and the awards she got were not big awards :/
even when the title she got sounds good, the title wasn't a really sought after title, like National Tiny Miss Beauty, hardly anyone would want that. not picking on her, she was a beautiful girl, but i'm just saying she was not at any real level of success yet.

BUT even though Patsy had nothing to be jealous over in terms of success, she DID have something to be jealous over with jonbenet anyway. Big awards or not, jonbenet was young and healthy and beautiful and got a lot of attention, while Patsy was sick and also turning 40 which can be upsetting to some women. Patsy liked living through jonbenet, but maybe she was just jealous of her too
 

UKGuy

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UKGuy,

Yes, this seems plausible. Yet, there are questions.

What about the blood found on the Barbie nightgown, found in the wine cellar; with Burke’s touch dna on it. Locations that also match PR touch dna. Why was BR touch dna found on JB nightgown when there is no reasoning for it except involvement?

The only bleeding produced other then the abrasions found on JB body, happened via SA. Meaning JB was SA not only while she was alive but also either wearing or laying on her Barbie nightgown. If the wine cellar was a depository why was the nightgown found in the WC but not the size 6 underwear or the pink pajama bottoms?

There is evidence linking JR to the crime scene. Seems unfortunate for him since he left no prints on the RN. Also, why would he need to fly his family out of Boulder to Atlanta for a very important meeting that he had to attend? He made this decision while JB body was lying in the living room; moments after he found her deceased? The plan that morning was to fly out to Michigan.

Rain on my Parade,
Missed this post, sorry.

What about the blood found on the Barbie nightgown, found in the wine cellar; with Burke’s touch dna on it. Locations that also match PR touch dna. Why was BR touch dna found on JB nightgown when there is no reasoning for it except involvement?
BR's touch dna might be innocent transfer that occurred during the pineapple snack?

The blood can be simply crime-scene transfer by accident, and probably is, hence the change to the Gap Top, possibly via the Turtleneck which Patsy probably wanted JR to wear fro the vacation flight?

The only bleeding produced other then the abrasions found on JB body, happened via SA. Meaning JB was SA not only while she was alive but also either wearing or laying on her Barbie nightgown. If the wine cellar was a depository why was the nightgown found in the WC but not the size 6 underwear or the pink pajama bottoms?

Because when you look in the wine-cellar, you are not looking at a crime-scene, you are viewing the remnants of a prior staging whose changeover was never concluded, hence the requirement to have, effectively in everything but name, a forensic dump site. Just think Partially Opened Gifts and Burke's alleged Birthday gifts, opened of course.

The nightgown was found and not the size-6 underwear because two different people were involved at different points in time. So the size-6 underwear was disappeared as this aspect did not fit into the revised staging.

There is evidence linking JR to the crime scene. Seems unfortunate for him since he left no prints on the RN. Also, why would he need to fly his family out of Boulder to Atlanta for a very important meeting that he had to attend? He made this decision while JB body was lying in the living room; moments after he found her deceased? The plan that morning was to fly out to Michigan.
The interstate flight was JR's getaway plan.

Regardless of who actually killed JonBenet there was enough evidence available to show all three remaining Ramsey's colluded in JonBenet's postmortem staging, so JR thought let's get out of town?

The case could be JDI, meaning the inept staging is deliberate, e.g. BR's long johns, Patsy's niece's size-12 Bloomingdale's underwear, along with some kind of staged SA using the paintbrush handle?

Personally I don't buy it, but who can tell?

IMO, someone, as per Coroner Meyer's verbatim statement Digitally Penetrated JonBenet. He described this as Sexual Contact, which edges out framing the assault as staging?

This suggests a scenario where some kind of postmortem ritualized Sexual Assault took place?

Part of the corroborating evidence is the splinter of cellulose left inside JonBenet, which Coroner Meyer did his best to avoid revealing by describing it as birefringement foreign material


JonBenet Autopsy Report, Excerpt
Vaginal Mucosa:
A small number of red blod cells is present on the eroded surface, as is birefringement foreign matarial

12-29-1996 Search Warrant for 755 15th Street, Excerpt
Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she witnessed the autopsy of JonBenet Ramsey which was conducted by Dr. John Meyer on December 27, 1996. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she observed Dr. Meyer examine the vaginal area of the victim and heard him state that the victim had received an injury constant with digital penetration of her vagina. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer told her that it was his opinion that the victim had been subjected to sexual contact. For further details on the autopsy see the attached document entitled Addendum To Search Warrant.

Pefect Murder Perfect Town - Part Three: Stories within Stories, Chapter Six
Pathologists had to be consulted to determine if JonBenét’s vaginal injury had taken place before or after her death and, if it was prior, to see if penetration had come from the child herself or from another person. The police would have to track down the origin of a small amount of cellulose* that had been found in JonBenét’s vagina.

The possibility existed that it could have come from the broken paintbrush used for the ligature. The knot on the ligature that acted like a slip-knot also required more investigation.

footnote:
* Cellulose is a carbohydrate of high molecular weight that is the chief constituent of the cell walls of plants. Raw cotton is 91 percent cellulose. Other important natural sources are flax, hemp, jute, straw, and wood.

You can just as easily arrive a conclusion that the SA via the paintbrush is staging, but why then bother redressing JonBenet in size-12's and Burke's long johns, particularly if the idea is to stage a SA?

.
 

UKGuy

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not trying to be mean but jonbenet wasn't very successful (yet).
if you know about how pageants were back then, you'll know she hadn't done many yet and the awards she got were not big awards :/
even when the title she got sounds good, the title wasn't a really sought after title, like National Tiny Miss Beauty, hardly anyone would want that. not picking on her, she was a beautiful girl, but i'm just saying she was not at any real level of success yet.

BUT even though Patsy had nothing to be jealous over in terms of success, she DID have something to be jealous over with jonbenet anyway. Big awards or not, jonbenet was young and healthy and beautiful and got a lot of attention, while Patsy was sick and also turning 40 which can be upsetting to some women. Patsy liked living through jonbenet, but maybe she was just jealous of her too

candleinthewindow,
JonBenet was Patsy's future. She was preparing JonBenet for a path to pageant glory similar to her own. Rather than being jealous of JonBenet's youth and looks Patsy was intent on using them to her advantage, consider all the adult poses and moves Patsy taught JonBenet to employ in her routines when the judges were looking on?

JonBenet was Patsy's project, her words!

.
 
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