Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California

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LuckyLucy2

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snipped for brevity:

So the conclusion by the State Attorney’s office is that there was no malfeasance or conflict of interest by CPD, SDSD or San Diego medical examiner in their conclusion that Max died of an accidental fall and RZ by suicide?

Isn’t this a hurtle for the wrongful death suit?


A BIG hurdle, IMO.
 

BBL

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IMO the conversation put forth (again and again) to talk about shoplifting and Max's accident, served very well to deflect from an awesome analysis of Rebecca's murder. Some very insightful conversation was being had around knots tied (and falsely presented), evidence NOT collected (lack of clothes, knives, etc), blatant misrepresentation from LE, who viewed *advertiser censored*, how the autopsy report aligns with the knots, lack of lie detector tests, and the verified sighting of two key POI at the mansion that night. Just to name a few. Can we get back to dissecting all of the numerous discrepancies and not get distracted? And, when I say "we", I mean "you all" since I haven't been part of the discussion. But, I have been reading and pondering. And, for what it is worth, I live in Coronado. Not one person I've talked to believes this was suicide. I won't even tell you what the Arizona folks call this murder (and they do think murder too).

<modsnip>
 

Frigga

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Thanks BBL- the good news is that it didn't work (thread getting shut down)! Do the Arizonians call this a payback murder? I never thought I would say that but with all the talk of Max being murdered by Rebecca- here and out of his own mothers mouth- what else could it be? It certainly wasn't a suicide- IMO. Thanks for helping get this back on track- Frigga
 

LuckyLucy2

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Hello BBL and Frigga,

With all due respect, just because you are not interested in the subject I've been discussing does not mean I am trying to get the thread closed down.

Please put me on "ignore" if you do not wish to read my posts. TIA
 

Cortne

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Bless you bless you bless you!!
IMO the conversation put forth (again and again) to talk about shoplifting and Max's accident, served very well to deflect from an awesome analysis of Rebecca's murder. Some very insightful conversation was being had around knots tied (and falsely presented), evidence NOT collected (lack of clothes, knives, etc), blatant misrepresentation from LE, who viewed *advertiser censored*, how the autopsy report aligns with the knots, lack of lie detector tests, and the verified sighting of two key POI at the mansion that night. Just to name a few. Can we get back to dissecting all of the numerous discrepancies and not get distracted? And, when I say "we", I mean "you all" since I haven't been part of the discussion. But, I have been reading and pondering. And, for what it is worth, I live in Coronado. Not one person I've talked to believes this was suicide. I won't even tell you what the Arizona folks call this murder (and they do think murder too).

Sorry for jumping in, but I just had to point out that the conversation, IMO, had been hijacked. One might wonder if there was an intent to get this thread shut down?
 

Jade

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A BIG hurdle, IMO.

I hope that this doesn’t lead to more heartache for RZ’s family. They seem so sweet.

The warrant lays out the situation well.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41290.pdf


The officer seems reasonable and responded to RZ as a suspicious death.

They certainly spent plenty of time at the scene.


I don’t get though why if, as stated that one post from a self defined local, that all of Coronado lacks confidence in their LE why in all this time no action has been taken against the officers and the department.



imo
 

LuckyLucy2

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Jade, the next hearing is the Demurrer / Motion to Strike scheduled for 11/21/2014 at 01:30:00 PM, PST.

I think it will be thrown out of court, as the evidence pointing to suicide is overwhelming, and the evidence pointing to murder is nil.

And the story the Zahaus' and their attorney came up with is something that could not have possibly happened. IMO.
 

Myvice

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This is all we know about the 911 call made when Max fell, this and that Mary Zahau said on the last Dr. Phil show that Rebecca called her AFTER the accident and BEFORE she called Jonah.

Mary said Rebecca said, "She was having a bad day, and might not be able to talk to her much, and that she now needed to call Jonah"

Also, note that Dina Shacknai never received a copy of the 911 call.



From the 11/07/11 audio interview of Max Shacknai's aunt, Nina Shacknai, with David Gotfredson of San Diego's CBS8.


Gotfredson: What do you know about this voice mail that Jonah left for Rebecca, that supposedly was the trigger that set her off or made her commit suicide?

I honestly don’t know anything about that, um, you know Jonah didn’t speak to me about his feelings with Rebecca. Um, So, I have no information on that, I don’t know. You know, I can only image, and this is my personal opinion, I believe, that she knew more, than what she told Jonah, and, that, that is why, she did what she did, because she knew that she didn’t give him CPR in 2 minutes.

And you know I don’t want to get into this mud slinging contest, you know I think its terrible, I think, its disgusting, but I think that is why, I think she did what she did. Because she had to know that the relationship that she had was never going to be same. You know, how do you be in a relationship with somebody…you’re not married to them, that’s not your child. You know, how could you be in that relationship, how could that relationship ever be the same again? So you know, I think she knew more than she was admitting to?

Gotfredson: Are you saying she felt guilty because she didn’t do the CPR or are you saying that she was responsible for his death and tried to cover it up by throwing him down the stairs or something like that?

I can’t speculate what her, mind set was, obviously I can’t speculate on that, I’m just, I don’t, in my opinion, I don‘t think she did CPR. I don’t believe she did. You know based on, the ambulance report . It said no CPR was performed. I don’t believe she did it. Um, the type of brain injury that he had? The doctors said, “There’s no way that CPR was done in 2 minutes. It’s not possible.”

Gotfredson: And where did the 2 minutes originally come from. Backup a few minutes and tell me where you heard that.

My sister told me that Jonah had told her that Rebecca told him, that she found Max and was doing CPR within 2 minutes of him falling down the stairs.

Gotfredson: And I’m guessing that Dina now has the reports related to her son, and the 911 call related to the death her son?

They haven’t given us the 911 call. I’ve heard it.

Gotfredson: Was there an y indication from the 911 call that XZ a made related to Max that they were doing CPR or that they were giving instructions to Rebecca to do CPR? Walk me through what you heard on that 911 call.

The 911 call was very strange, it ,uh, it was uh XZ calling, and…it, it was really strange, it was a really, really strange phone call, because first they ask, like, “911 what’s your emergency?” and she said that, that, “max had fallen down the stairs”, and the 911 operator, uh, initially they weren’t getting a clear picture, because first she said “he was breathing”, then she said he wasn’t breathing , then their asking the address and Rebecca was in the background saying, “1040 Ocean, 1040 Ocean”. The address is 1043, so…they got the address wrong, and then… throughout a lot of the phone call, Xena wasn’t talking. it was really strange, the operator was saying, "Hello are you there? Hello?", and XZ would say, “ …Yes”, and then she’s saying, um, you know, uh, “Is he breathing? ”Yes.” “Ok, so he is breathing?, “Yes”, “Ok are you sure?” …,“No”. It was BIZARRE.. And there were these long pauses in between her answers.

And then, when it gets to the point where he’s NOT breathing, you can hear Rebecca in the background, and, she’s, sounding, you know, uh kinda frantic? And, then, all of a sudden, you hear, like XZ stop talking, just literally STOP talking.

And the 911 operator’s saying, “Hello?, Hello?”, and you hear Rebecca say, “Are you still on the phone?” And you hear XZ say, “Yes”.

And then you can hear the dog barking,…about ¾ of the way through the phone call you hear the dog barking. All of a sudden.

Gotfredson: Because the ambulance is arriving?

I don’t know… it was bizarre. It was almost as if the dog just walked in.

Gotfredson: Did you hear any instruction at all in terms of CPR, or, or anything like that?

Um, no, no, there was no like, “Do this and check compressions and 1, 2, 3”. No, there was none of that, not anything like that, so I don’t think she did CPR, that’s my opinion. I don’t believe she did.

My guts says…even the ambulance report says no CPR was done prior to their arrival. So you know? The ambulance was the first on the scene, from my understanding. Ambulance and Fire? She would have had to tell them. And I believe they said that when they came in, that Maxie was also on his stomach. So how do you give CPR if someone’s on their stomach?

Gotfredson: Why do you think she didn’t give him CPR?

I don’t know. Great question. I don’t know. I mean, that’s my thinking. I mean, I don’t know, who knows? Maybe she was in the backyard, maybe she was distracted, maybe she came in and found him and had no idea how long he’d been lying there. I have NO idea.

I do think that she knew more than what she was telling. That’s the feeling, that she wasn’t being very forthcoming, and I felt like, she knew more. And, because of that, she took her secrets with her. That’s what I feel like.

IMHO, I'm not surprised at all that X was having a difficult time with the 911 call. She was a child herself, witnessing a horrible accident. I'm not surprised at all that she was sent home as RZ knew she wouldn't have time to help her through the trauma that would likely follow witnessing something so horrific. Through this transcription, it appears Nina was having a bit of a time herself considering all the "ums".

From this snippet it's very hard to determine what else was discussed during the call but it sounds as if dispatch also did a terrible job. If they listened to someone in the background (RZ) that was possibly doing CPR for the address and didn't verify it, that's pretty sad.

Was the dog being mentioned supposed to lead to the question of why RZ kenneled the dog during this time? I don't understand what the implication is here. If I thought I wouldn't be spending enough time at home during a crisis I would kennel my dogs too. I would be making every effort to assure I could devote my time to helping those around me.

The bolded part shows how much credence this should be given, IMO. So and so said so and so said so and so did it. Hmmmm
 

Jade

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Jade, the next hearing is the Demurrer / Motion to Strike scheduled for 11/21/2014 at 01:30:00 PM, PST.

I think it will be thrown out of court, as the evidence pointing to suicide is overwhelming, and the evidence pointing to murder is nil.

And the story the Zahaus' and their attorney came up with is something that could not have possibly happened. IMO.


I agree
 

Jade

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IMHO, I'm not surprised at all that X was having a difficult time with the 911 call. She was a child herself, witnessing a horrible accident. I'm not surprised at all that she was sent home as RZ knew she wouldn't have time to help her through the trauma that would likely follow witnessing something so horrific. Through this transcription, it appears Nina was having a bit of a time herself considering all the "ums".

From this snippet it's very hard to determine what else was discussed during the call but it sounds as if dispatch also did a terrible job. If they listened to someone in the background (RZ) that was possibly doing CPR for the address and didn't verify it, that's pretty sad.

Was the dog being mentioned supposed to lead to the question of why RZ kenneled the dog during this time? I don't understand what the implication is here. If I thought I wouldn't be spending enough time at home during a crisis I would kennel my dogs too. I would be making every effort to assure I could devote my time to helping those around me.

The bolded part shows how much credence this should be given, IMO. So and so said so and so said so and so did it. Hmmmm


BBM

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What RZ told the officers on scene:

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41290.pdf


Since RZ wasn't welcome at the hospital she wouldn't anticipate being gone that much. Myself in such a situation I would need my dog so not to be alone.

It does bring to mind some that make arrangements so to speak before a suicide.



imo
 

Ausgirl

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There was a strong inference made by Rebecca that that the dog was to blame for Max's death. Whether that was the truth or not -- there's every reason to kennel the dog, right there.

I doubt it had anything to do with suicidal thinking. Mainly as her death clearly was not a suicide.
 

LuckyLucy2

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snipped for response:

Was the dog being mentioned supposed to lead to the question of why RZ kenneled the dog during this time? I don't understand what the implication is here. If I thought I wouldn't be spending enough time at home during a crisis I would kennel my dogs too. I would be making every effort to assure I could devote my time to helping those around me.

Rebecca reported that Max said, "Ocean", the dog's name, before slipping into unconsciousness. Something that would have been medically impossible, IMO.

Some believe, as I do, that Rebecca staged the scene with the chandelier and the dog to cover up what really happened.

Rebecca gave the wrong address to the 911 operator. That is the reason for the address confusion.
 

time

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Rebecca reported that Max said, "Ocean", the dog's name, before slipping into unconsciousness. Something that would have been medically impossible, IMO.

Some believe, as I do, that Rebecca staged the scene with the chandelier and the dog to cover up what really happened.

Rebecca gave the wrong address to the 911 operator. That is the reason for the address confusion.

Hmm... yes, that is definitely what Dina believed in my opinion and became motive for murder.
 

inthedark14

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Since no one here has actually heard the tape of the 911 call when MS fell, there really is no point discussing it. A link to an interview given just before RZ's family was to appear on the Dr. Phil show by NR is not a good source. IMVHO. Everything that she stated in that interview was to show how neither she nor her twin could have been there could have done something to RZ and at the same time throw suspicion at RZ and her minor sister. What NR states that she heard "1040 Ocean" when she heard the tape isn't good evidence AFAIC. It's simply a link stating that a person named in the lawsuit as a defendant stated that is what she heard when she heard the tape. It's useless.

We have no idea what RZ was saying to XZ, a minor, who was only visiting the property and had just arrived, who was on the phone with 911 during a major crisis. I do imagine that things could be confusing. I suppose that someone, say a person who was convinced that her nephew was harmed by the person or persons making the 911 call might just hear what she wants to hear as well. Again, it's not evidence of anything what NR told a reporter that she heard.

On a personal note, this is when things changed for me thinking about this case. I was convinced that it was JS/AS, I really hadn't thought too much about the twins. Then the w-r-i-s-t-l-e-t and the not touching the gate and the only light on in the whole place and blah blah blah. Add the tone and cadence of various hate filled posts across the webz....well, here we are today.

ALWAYS MOO
 

Gilgamesh

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I think XZ being sent home so quickly after the accident speaks volumes. Why was there such a rush to get her out of town?

This is a rhetorical question. It is also a useless one.

To diagram this posting: first there is an inference of guilt. Then there is a rhetorical question which comes right afterwards ( kind of like a one-two sucker punch). The fact is that neither you nor I know why she left town. You have your theory. Mine is that XZ was traumatized and needed to leave so that RZ could take care of Jonah and everything/everyone else.

Now, I know that by responding to this, I am taking your bait. I'm not going to continue to take the bait, though and I'm calling it as I see it.

Now, let's get back to the discussion from before that was on track. Personally I believe that there is a 'smoke and mirrors' ploy to derail this thread. I would like to remind everyone to stay on course and not get tripped up by deflection and detours.
 

Frigga

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I bring this up because most of us here feel Max's accident was a real strong motive for murder in this case. I have personally had this happen to me (the Bolded part), I cannot even imagine the many different scenarios that could have taken place to cause Max's eventual accident; scooter hits an object, the dog hits Max on the scooter, Max tries to ride the scooter down the railing- on and on and on.

This on scooters and accidents- the BBM part is something that stands out to me and could be significant to what happened that day with Max:


The scooters made their debut in late 1999, and accidents have kept pace with sales. In May of 2000, that month's scooter-related injuries seen in U.S. emergency rooms topped 500. In August, the one-month total reached 4,000, and by September figures hit a high of 9,000-an increase of almost 1,800 percent in five months.

One-fourth of these accidents happened to children less than 8 years of age. Ann Brown, chairwoman of the Consumer Products Safety Commission (CPSC), stresses that scooters are much too dangerous for children in this age group. For example, the body of the scooter is very low to the ground, making it unable to accommodate irregularities in pavement. As a result, raised areas in sidewalks can cause it to drag, throwing the rider forward over the handle. Another problem is that if the scooter hits a rough spot in the pavement, or a twig or a rock, the tiny wheels are stopped dead or driven sideways, again potentially causing the same type of accident.

http://www.newsforparents.org/expert_avoiding_scooter_injuries.html
 

Myvice

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Rebecca reported that Max said, "Ocean", the dog's name, before slipping into unconsciousness. Something that would have been medically impossible, IMO.

Some believe, as I do, that Rebecca staged the scene with the chandelier and the dog to cover up what really happened.

Rebecca gave the wrong address to the 911 operator. That is the reason for the address confusion.

I'm confused. I thought Nina said it was XZ on the phone. Relying on background voices seems totally irresponsible. Did the dispatcher ask XZ to repeat the address to know what was heard was correct?
 

inthedark14

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This is all we know about the 911 call made when Max fell, this and that Mary Zahau said on the last Dr. Phil show that Rebecca called her AFTER the accident and BEFORE she called Jonah.

Mary said Rebecca said, "She was having a bad day, and might not be able to talk to her much, and that she now needed to call Jonah"

Also, note that Dina Shacknai never received a copy of the 911 call.
<Respectfully snipped by me>

Could you please kindly post a link for this above quote that's attributed MZL? I'm having trouble finding it, but I did find these:

&#8220;All of it. All of it doesn&#8217;t fit. The conversation she and I had the day before [she died], none of it adds up. She had two detailed plans for the next day: to take things for Jonah [to the hospital where he was watching over Max, who had been critically injured falling down a stairwell at the mansion], to fix something for him to eat. She told me to tell our mom that she would call her on her way to the hospital in the morning. That she was going to text me throughout the day. I mean, that&#8217;s somebody who&#8217;s planning to kill herself?&#8221;

&#8220;She did not feel responsible. She said it was a horrible accident. She said she doesn&#8217;t know for sure what happened. She just remembered that he was playing in the hallway, and she told me that she was in the bathroom, and she heard this loud crash. And so she came out running, and she said she found Max on the floor, unconscious.&#8221;
http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2011/sep/14/citylights2-rebecca-zahau/?page=2 This article is dated 9/14/11

"She was normal, fine, just getting ready to go to bed," said Zahau-Loehner
http://abcnews.go.com/US/mysterious-rebecca-zahau-mansion-death-devastates-family/story?id=14080327
The above article is a very early one, published on 7/15/11. It goes on to say that MZL thought that AS was the only was staying at Speckles at the time (aside from RZ obviously).

"She was going to call mom and dad the next morning and text me throughout the day with updates on Max," Zahau-Loehner said at the time. "She was very hopeful. She had to be strong and there for Jonah."
http://abcnewsradioonline.com/national-news/tag/mary-zahau-loehner#ixzz3CURWATKP
There is also an audio/radio interview from this link, which is dated 9/2/11

"She sounded tired, but other than that, she sounded like Rebecca," Zahau-Loehner said. "I wouldn't call her distraught. She was upset, very concerned and very worried over Max's condition, just like any caregiver or parent would be."

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2011/09/01/20110901detectives-announce-findings-friday-womans-death-shacknai-mansion.html#ixzz3CUTCu7rC This article is dated 9/2/11 as well.

ALWAYS MOO
 

Jade

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In the dark, I have that link but since you have me on ignore I cant help you.

I'm tired of the baseless attacks just becouse I want to post about a case I have a connection to.

I am not trying any of those ploys I'm being accused of I am just contributing within TOS like any other long time member

Hopefully the " friends" all have me on ignore so I dont have to bear then every time I'm here

Seeing what is being said about my posting makes me question OP theories even more since they are so wrong about me.

You all will not run me off I've been here too long but I dont have any intrest in being around you all attacking me - what a waste a waste of time

Poor poor Rebecca
 

kittychi

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IMO the conversation put forth (again and again) to talk about shoplifting and Max's accident, served very well to deflect from an awesome analysis of Rebecca's murder. Some very insightful conversation was being had around knots tied (and falsely presented), evidence NOT collected (lack of clothes, knives, etc), blatant misrepresentation from LE, who viewed *advertiser censored*, how the autopsy report aligns with the knots, lack of lie detector tests, and the verified sighting of two key POI at the mansion that night. Just to name a few. Can we get back to dissecting all of the numerous discrepancies and not get distracted? And, when I say "we", I mean "you all" since I haven't been part of the discussion. But, I have been reading and pondering. And, for what it is worth, I live in Coronado. Not one person I've talked to believes this was suicide. I won't even tell you what the Arizona folks call this murder (and they do think murder too).

Sorry for jumping in, but I just had to point out that the conversation, IMO, had been hijacked. One might wonder if there was an intent to get this thread shut down?

Hi BBL and :welcome: !

BBM: I think its worth a lot that you live in Coronado. Thank you for joining the discussion.
 
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