WV WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #4

Hi all friends, my name is Yuri and I am writing from Sardinia, the island where Giorgio Soddu (Sodder) was born in 1895.
I am new to the forum, but I have read all the discussions related to this case. Case that has tormented me for at least ten years.

I apologize for my English, I hope you understand what I write.

I will not enter into the merits of the various hypotheses on what may have happened that Christmas night many years ago. All respectable hypotheses, but some that arise with an underlying original sin. That is, we start from wrong assumptions, the result of a lack of knowledge of certain socio-economic and historical realities of the environment from which the protagonists come. First of all Giorgio Soddu who came from Sardinia.

I am referring in this case to the hypothesis that the Italian-American mafia of the 40s could kidnap and kill 5 children just to spite their father guilty of not succumbing to racketeering or extortion. This is not a plausible hypothesis, for several reasons: there have been several historically confirmed murders of children, caused by the Sicilian mafia in Italy over the last 150 years. There are about 108, the first was completed in 1896, but the phenomenon had its peak between the end of the 70s and the early 80s and then during the 90s, or in correspondence with the notorious "mafia wars", that is the various wars between family clans. In fact, there are also some episodes also in the 50s and 60s, but always following a war between clans or family feuds, never for simple extortion or racketeering. Until the 70s, that is, the first that the so-called Corleonesi, the mafia (the Sicilian one, not the Neapolitan one that is the "camorra", or the Pugliese one that is the "sacred crown united", or the Calabrese one or " la Ndrangheta ") followed an ethical code, not always respected, but in general, children were not to be killed. The exceptions concern precisely the wars between clans, family feuds and the children of informers.

So I find it quite unlikely that the Italian-American mafia (which was much less violent than the Sicilian and much more hidden and less flashy) would kill children just to spite their father. With the risk of attracting the spotlight of the law, of the F.B.I. on their presence, their business and their activities in the area,

This point, for those who are familiar with the historical dynamics of the various mafias, is objectively absurd.

I repeat that I do not want to offend anyone with adjectives, you will excuse me but I do not have a good command of the English language.

There are also other factors that lead me to exclude a Mafia conviction in the kidnapping of children. But I think I've already bored you enough for the moment.

If you have any questions about where George comes from go ahead, I'm at your complete disposal.
 
Thanks for the welcome guys.

I hope to make a small contribution to who have questions, doubts or simple curiosities concerning Italy and Sardinia. Especially in that historical period.

Personally, I have always found some interesting similarities between the state of West Virginia and Sardinia. Both are small states within a larger state entity. Sardinia within the Italian Regionalist State (it is an Autonomous Region, with an autonomous statute like Sicily) and the WV within the Federal State of the United States. Both have a strong cultural identity, especially from the point of view of the history of the mining industry. Especially for coal.

WV and Sardinia are in fact territorial entities characterized by a strong presence of mining.
Both are sparsely populated and have a significant wooded heritage. To tell the truth today Sardinia is almost deforested due to the colonial exploitation of the Italian state in Sardinia. But until 40 years ago Sardinia was a huge wood of millenary plants. Even now where I live there is the oldest forest of millenary plants in Europe. We have a 4000 year old olive tree. So once upon a time Sardinia was wooded like the WV (at least as I imagine the WV is, since I have never been there), it is rich in Coal, it has beautiful mountains and both have the presence of Astronomical Observatories because they are scarcely populated and therefore not polluted by the lights of the metropolis.

I have no difficulty in imagining why George decided to settle in WV, despite having had the opportunity to go to other places, as indeed many Sardinians did, in Pennsylvania for coal and in Utah and Colorado for metals.

I understand George's psychology and why a Sardinian has decided to live in WV rather than elsewhere.

I also understand what kind of family dynamics there were within his family: half Sardinian and half Italian (Apulian). And above all, what kind of education could the 5 Sodder children have.

Personally, I find it quite unlikely that they left the house of their own free will, especially to reach someone outside their home. I know that for some of us today it is difficult to understand certain dynamics, but I guarantee you that for the kind of education that George gave him, the fact that those poor children could have transgressed a paternal rule is practically impossible.

And I believe that they were not allowed to go out alone at night, except under parental authorization, even because they were attracted to someone, even if they were relatives.

By virtue of this strong family bond, similar in some ways to Irish and Scottish families, it is difficult for me to believe that the children, as soon as they had the chance, did not immediately get in touch with their family. Even if it had been 10, 20, 30 years later, I guarantee you that the first thing they would have done (at least the older siblings) would have been to contact their family.

On the other hand, I also understand George's stubbornness, tenacity and determination to understand what was the objective reality of the facts, to find the historical truth and to do justice to his poor children.

This is the aspect that most troubles me about this story, namely:
All the tangible, objective and probable evidence suggests that the children died in the fire. That the mafia has nothing to do with it. May the children never go out of their own free will. That it was not a kidnapping for the purpose of extortion. That they were unlikely to have been kidnapped inside their home.

So, if despite these evidences George believed that behind there was something more and different than the official version of the facts, well, then I too am convinced that there is something shady behind it that we do not know.

I believe that George knew much more than what emerges from our knowledge of the historical records and material at our disposal.

I want to specify that I think George was a good family man and an honest person. I have no doubt about this. But I also believe that George knew many things and would have kept the secret inside himself for his entire life, probably not to involve and expose his family. George probably knew a lot more about the same private detectives he had hired.

This is my thought.
 
At this point I think you sort of have to dig. The fascinating episode just released on YouTube shows pictures I don’t think have ever been seen before. I believe the author had the resources and permission of Sylvia’s daughter so it’s interesting to see through that lens.
 
I watched the video very carefully. I think there is some unreleased material. I fully agree with the conclusions and the narration of the video.

It will probably remain a discussed and debated event forever. The children probably died on that fateful night. But I can't understand why George, a serious and rational man, should have persevered in looking for a truth that doesn't exist?

I find it hard to believe that George could not accept death and was unable to mourn his children.

Another question that has been on my mind for years is: why the older brother of the Sodder, in a first statement, had stated that he had seen his younger brothers sleeping in their bedrooms, and then later he retracted?

What was the point of him lying to his parents, feeding false hopes and expectations if he was certain that the children had died in the fire? that is, why would he have postponed the pain for 40 years, allowing, among other things, his family to spend a fortune in finding the children?

Another question that makes me think, but which is perhaps impertinent and unpolite is: why the descendants of the Sodder did not intend to continue the investigation, in light of the fact that George and his wife sought the truth to the end ?
 
George and Jennie's descendants did continue to investigate but since Sylvia died they have seemed to cool down on their investigation.
 
I watched the video very carefully. I think there is some unreleased material. I fully agree with the conclusions and the narration of the video.

It will probably remain a discussed and debated event forever. The children probably died on that fateful night. But I can't understand why George, a serious and rational man, should have persevered in looking for a truth that doesn't exist?

I find it hard to believe that George could not accept death and was unable to mourn his children.

Another question that has been on my mind for years is: why the older brother of the Sodder, in a first statement, had stated that he had seen his younger brothers sleeping in their bedrooms, and then later he retracted?

What was the point of him lying to his parents, feeding false hopes and expectations if he was certain that the children had died in the fire? that is, why would he have postponed the pain for 40 years, allowing, among other things, his family to spend a fortune in finding the children?

Another question that makes me think, but which is perhaps impertinent and unpolite is: why the descendants of the Sodder did not intend to continue the investigation, in light of the fact that George and his wife sought the truth to the end ?
You wrote you are writing from Sardinia, the island where Giorgio Soddu (Sodder) was born in 1895.


I am looking for information on his ancestors. George's parents were John Sodder and Maria Sodder (born N.N.).

He was born on March 24, 1895 in Tula, Sassari, Sardinia, Italy.

George was from own ancestry of Giorgio Soddu Sr

His arrival date to USA was on April 1, 1911 - Ellis Island, New York

His other arrivals were August 4, 1913 - Ellis Island, New York and in 1923 - Fayette, West Virginia



John was from own ancestry of Giovanni Soddu. He was born around 1875 in Italy.

Maria Sodder was born around 1876 in Italy.


They had two sons Leonard Sodder and George Sodder.

Leonardo was born around 1893 in Italy.
Leonardo was from own ancestry of Leonardo Soddu


George Sodder got married with Jennie Cipriani in 1922.


Jennie Sodder (born Cipriani) was born on March 2, 1903 in Troia, Foggia, Puglia, Italy

Her arrival date to USA was in 1904 or 1905.

She was also known named as Jenney Cipriani.

Her parents were Joe Cipriani and Martha Cipriani (born Liguori)

Joe Cipriani was born on June 2, 1870 in Italy.

His arrivals to USA were in 1898 and 1907.

His death October 22, 1944
spacer.gif


Martha Cipriani was born on February 26, 1873 in Italy.

Her arrival to USA was in 1907.

Her death April 28, 1964


They had 5 children - four daugthers and one son.

Jennie Sodder (born Cipriani) was born in March 2, 1903 in Troia, Foggia, Puglia, Italy

Mary August (born Cipriani) was born in 1920 in Pennsylvania (she was also known as Mary Cipron)

James Cipriani was born in 1913 in West Virginia (he was also known as James Cipron)

Emma Cipriani was born in 1916 in West Virginia (she was also known as Emma Cipr)

Edna Cipriani was born in 1919 in West Virginia (she was also known as Edna Cipron)


Jennie Cipriani got married with George Sodder.

Mary Cipriani got married with Robin August. He was born February 7, 1909. His death October 2, 1981


Jennie Sodder (born Cipriani) death February 15, 1989

George Sodder death August 16, 1969



I: Geogio Saddu was born in Tula, Sardinia in 1895




Giorgio Saddu - arrival



There is again no brother mentioned who allegedly traveled with him, but there is Gio Antonio Casula (age 25) mentioned in the ship manifest. He was from the same town in Sardinia, and his destination in the U.S. is the city “Thomas, West-Virginia”. Giorgio Saddu’s destination was the exact same city (see below). This is for sure no coincidence! Tula, Sassari had around 1400 residents in 1911. So for sure all the families knew each other.

There were 4 other passengers coming from the same town “Sassari, Eula”. Now you have to look at the original documents, which are also up on the Ellis Island website. The name of the town was in fact “Sassari, Tula”, which is the same as in Wikipedia. Handwritten words are sometimes difficult to decipher but this one is pretty easy when your are experienced in looking into old documents.

I think the same goes with last name Soddu or Saddu. The letters a and o look very similar when written by hand. It also looks like the last name could have been Soddu instead of Saddu.

The surname Soddu (Russian: Содду) is found most frequently in Italy.




George Sodder had two passenger IDs. Check with the both names Giorgio Saddu and Georgie Soddu. There is the same ship and year of arrival. Saddu Giorgio's port of departure is Genoa and Soddu Georgie's port of departure is Naples. This must be the same person. His age is the same 16 years old and date of arrival is also the same April 1st, 1911. He has two passenger IDs 101097050005 and 500000012356. I only searched the database by last name.



He has been traveling all the time on the same ship, which has apparently stopped during the voyage. The ship stopped en route and picked up more passengers from the next town. I only searched the database by last name Saddu and Soddu. This way you can see both of his passenger numbers.

After choosing Saddu and ship Verona. Then you choose Text passenger list. The database gives you 10 Italian South passengers. Four of them were from Eula, Sassari. They were Saddu Giorgio, Ant. Gavino Peighini, Salvatore Pintadu and Gio Antonio Casula. All of these 10 Italian South passengers' port of departure was Genoa. Gio Antonio Casula was only single (marital status) in addition to Giorgio Saddu from Eula, Sassari.

All of these 10 passengers were traveling on the same ship Verona and had their date of arrival April 1st, 1911. Giorgio Saddu traveled with someone of them.

Database gives you only one passenger with last name Saddu, because it was written in wrong way. If you check by last name Soddu, you get 16 passengers, that traveled on different ships. Only Georgie Soddu traveled on a ship called Verona. His brother did not travel with him either because another man with the same surname Saddu or Soddu could not be found in the passenger list.



When you choose Soddu Georgie, his residence was HELD INQUIRY. Database gives you passengers numbers 24-52 (29 passengers), that had also their residence as HELD INQUIRY. So Georgie might has also traveled with someone of them.



YOU MUST BE REGISTERED TO THIS SITE BEFORE you can make searches on their database.


Genoa Passenger Lists 1896-1954



Verona - 1908



D/S Verona (+1918)

WRECKSITE - VERONA OCEAN LINER 1908-1918
 

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George coming to America is interesting but don't think it has anything to do with what happened on Christmas Eve 1945.
 
George coming to America is interesting but don't think it has anything to do with what happened on Christmas Eve 1945.
Some people have begun to figure out things to do with George’s arrival in America. His brother Leonard traveled with him to America and immediately returned to Italy, as is commonly reported. George never told why he moved from Italy to America. All we know is that he was talking badly about Mussolini, which could have cost him the disappearance of his five children.

If you have any questions about where George comes from go ahead, I'm at your complete disposal.

I accepted his kind offer to find out the origin of George. Possibly George's relatives still live in the same area in Sardinia, Italy.

In 1968, more than 20 years after the fire, Jennie went to get the mail and found an envelope addressed only to her. It was postmarked in Kentucky but had no return address. Inside was a photo of a man in his mid-20s. On its flip side a cryptic handwritten note read: “Louis Sodder. I love brother Frankie. Ilil Boys. A90132 or 35.” She and George couldn’t deny the resemblance to their Louis, who was 9 at the time of the fire. Beyond the obvious similarities - dark curly hair, dark brown eyes - they had the same straight, strong nose, the same upward tilt of the left eyebrow.

Jennie received a picture in the mail of a young man claiming to be Louis, but attempts to find him were fruitless. George died later that year.

The thought of a letter with a picture of Louis came to mind. When George received the letter it was opened and sealed. The original unopened letter must have been more than just a picture. The Sodder family has continued to be followed after the tragic events. Could "Frankie" be Louis' new changed name in his new life?

LOUIS SODDER LETTER.jpg

On its flip side a cryptic handwritten note read: “Louis Sodder. I love brother Frankie. Ilil Boys. A90132 or 35.”

It looks like Ilil boy 5. The both numbers 5. and 35. look like very similar. They look like numbers instead of the letters. Capital letter S in name Sodder looks like different kind than these numbers 5. It might be Ilil boy the 5th.

Louis was the fifth youngest son in the Sodder family. The sons of the Sodder family were from oldest to youngest: John, Joseph, George, Maurice, and Louis.

After all, the Sodder’s were of Italian descent and the number “90132” that was on the back of the photo was, at the time, the postal code for Palermo, Sicily.

Postal Code 90132 - Palermo, Sicily and Postal Code 90135 - Palermo, Sicily

About that cryptic handwritten note I also got an idea as follows:

'Brother Frankie' in Italian is 'Fra. Francesco.'

The letter was sent from Kentucky. Do people living in Palermo with the last name Palermo live there? Zip code may refer to the last name. Louise's new last name is covered by a postal code. His new name could be Francesco Palermo or he lives with a person named that. It’s worth looking to see if there are other people with the last name Palermo in America from other states than Kentucky.

I believe the Sodder family was monitored by the mafia or the village community after the fire. Maybe Louis could assume that his letter would be opened, so he had to hide his new name and place of residence with the message behind the picture.

I am sure the children were kidnapped because the children had been followed on a school trip as they came home from school.

The older Sodder sons also recalled something peculiar: Just before Christmas, they noticed a man parked along U.S. Highway 21, intently watching the younger kids as they came home from school.


Children were alive after the fire:

Then came the reports of sightings:

A woman claimed to have seen the missing children peering from a passing car while the fire was in progress. A woman operating a tourist stop between Fayetteville and Charleston, some 50 miles west, said she saw the children the morning after the fire. “I served them breakfast,” she told police. “There was a car with Florida license plates at the tourist court, too.” A woman at a Charleston hotel saw the children’s photos in a newspaper and said she had seen four of the five a week after the fire. “The children were accompanied by two women and two men, all of Italian extraction,” she said in a statement. “I do not remember the exact date. However, the entire party did register at the hotel and stayed in a large room with several beds. They registered about midnight. I tried to talk to the children in a friendly manner, but the men appeared hostile and refused to allow me to talk to these children…. One of the men looked at me in a hostile manner; he turned around and began talking rapidly in Italian. Immediately, the whole party stopped talking to me. I sensed that I was being frozen out and so I said nothing more. They left early the next morning.”

People in the town claimed they saw the missing children in a vehicle the night of the fire, or have seen them since.

Another sighting: “a woman who ran a Charleston hotel, claimed to have seen the children approximately a week afterwards. “I do not remember the exact date”, she said in a statement. The children had come in, around midnight, with two men and two women, all of whom appeared to her to be “of Italian extraction”. When she attempted to speak with the children, “[o]ne of the men looked at me in a hostile manner; he turned around and began talking rapidly in Italian. Immediately, the whole party stopped talking to me”.

Francesco Palermo is the man's name.



There are too many coincidences and strange things in the events. The five missing children were no longer in the house during the fire (when the fire broke out). The children were left up to play by the mother to sleep with the youngest child. This seems like a clear case when looking at the events as a whole before and after the fire and the disappearance of children.

If the FBI had been allowed to investigate the events, they would have found the culprits and possibly the kidnappers as well. It is much possible that the children were first in Florida with relatives (George’s brother’s family). I think the names of the children have been changed. The children have been sold or taken abroad, presumably back to Italy (far enough from America) that no children will be found.

It should be long enough since the children disappeared that no one needs to protect anyone or hide anything anymore. Soon after 75 years, it’s time for the truth to find out what really happened that night. Many executives have died. Still, some of the children are still possibly alive. They may also in due course tell (reveal) to their children and other relatives their true identities.
 
Revisited after a decade, #4 is good because myriad theories come together and former members come back, etc.

Using those theories I have tried to come up with questions, conclusions, devils advocata, etc.

One thing to start. From all accounts, George was a devoted family man. So we are told. How many have been called that on here only to be found out not to be, BTK, for example.

We are told that the insurance guy sorry, spelling! was an enemy.
Again, many times people will distance themselves after someone gets caught. pretend to be enemies, for example.

What if......George plotted with insurance guy to burn his own property down....has to look real, and the insurance guy was like,
wtf are you thinking, it could go wrong and your family could be killed, your house burned down, and you might get caught! Yes,
George also probably owed money to the mob, and either the insurance guy was talking him into or out of destroying property. Mob
is not going to burn down something they could easily repossess. In my scenario, insurance guy is either mob or unmade useful tool for mob for their insurance scams which are big back then.

From there, may scenarios could unfold.

Mine. George is going to have his house burned down, on Christmas Eve, when he knows the townsfolk are celebrating, and of course the fire chief was probably DRUNK. He hires the two flunkies to do it.

Jennie makes sure to take youngest with her for safekeeping and instructs oldest daughter to keep the others downstairs. That way she could get them out when the firestarted and be outside looking at it. But Marian fell asleep and the kids went upstairs to bed.

Mother gets warning phone call, and hears bump on roof, sees lights on, drapes open, door unlocked. Notice George does not give any account during this time....Was she in on it....or did he use her as a
patsy I wonder. I think she was in on it, she was the accountant for the biz not just the mom. This is why she went along with such a dangerous plan, if they lost everything her kids would destitute.

So, she will have to wait to smell the smoke to set everything in motion, even at this point, George has not weighed into the situation yet!

The fire was started on one side so they could all get out. By the time Jennie yelled Fire, the kids were unconscious or dead. John was not expecting them to be in their beds as he rushed downstairs but stopped to try to save them realizing they were already gone.


House collapses on top of itself. Dad, Mom, older bro and sis have accidentally murdered their 5 youngest in an insurance scam. As one of our favorite posters points out, town did not really GAF about them then and even less now. Hungover fire chief drags himself over the next day and was not too obtuse to see he better mind his own business, has already had a talk with insurance man.

Then, when insurance guy started running his mouth around town, distancing himself from George and maybe even hinting at extortion, John changes his story....kids were not there. Vanishing perpetrator
strikes again, someone must have kidnapped them!

The chunk of liver delivered through the Sheriff was a warning.
The mob wanted their *cut*. At the time, very quickly the death certificates for the kids were notarized. After that, mob let them
act like they thought the kids were abducted and they did so their entire lives, no statute of limitations on murder charges and they had involved their 2 oldest children in those charges so...

Sorry so jaded.
 
The beginning of all my sub theories is always the insurance guy, Mr. J, and George plotting an insurance scam which included burning the house down and possibly even loss of life.

In this scenario, kids survive.

So Jennie, their business accountant and whether she liked it or not, in on insurance scam. But! First she arranged for her eldest daughter to stay up downstairs, and shepherd her 5 youngest into the possession of these Cipriani relatives. She even ordered the two oldest boys to be outside doing chores in the barn. How easy to take the girls, put them in a waiting car and tell them she loved them and to be good etc. I am thinking in this scenario, kids knew someone in the car.
The witnesses who saw the children with Italian speakers seem believable. Especially because they always mention the Italianness, the abrupt foreign speech, the hostile piercing eyes seen and heard utterly from ordinary country folk.

Everyone do not get mad at me but I can even see a mother thinking that maybe she should get her youngest kids out of this place and even back to Italy and out of growing up to be in the coal business, miners etc. like the Sardinians were as well, Jennie Cipriani was not Sardinian.

Anyway I can see a mom stretched to her limits and feeling her family threatened financially and maybe even their lives, agreeing to letting her side of the family have these children, take them far away and love them.

thus, she tended a garden for dead children and he was the one who searched to the end for live children.

Because in the scenario above this one, #1 he murdered the kids accidentally in an insurance scam...so he has to be seen to hysterically believe they are alive somewhere although he has seen their death certificates. In the above scenario #2, Insurance scam, but kids must SEEM dead although have been adopted by loving relatives.

Now, about those 4 vertebrae. 16 to 18 year old. That info about the boat Verona comes in handy yes it does. All of that secrecy about back home, etc. Did someone who was aboard the Verona with them, one of the 11, commit a crime later, like murder a 16 to 18 year old. All that going back and forth to Italy especially the bro who returned directly to Italy after dropping George off...

and to add a Dan Brown masonic twist as one poster suggested...that whole Fra Francesco thing, loved it, the pic of the very handsome Dr. Francesco palermo, with his accolades, notice he received his degree from the University of Verona.

There is something untold about this, we sense it, and it will always elude us.
 
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The beginning of all my sub theories is always the insurance guy, Mr. J, and George plotting an insurance scam which included burning the house down and possibly even loss of life.

In this scenario, kids survive.

So Jennie, their business accountant and whether she liked it or not, in on insurance scam. But! First she arranged for her eldest daughter to stay up downstairs, and shepherd her 5 youngest into the possession of these Cipriani relatives. She even ordered the two oldest boys to be outside doing chores in the barn. How easy to take the girls, put them in a waiting car and tell them she loved them and to be good etc. I am thinking in this scenario, kids knew someone in the car.
The witnesses who saw the children with Italian speakers seem believable. Especially because they always mention the Italianness, the abrupt foreign speech, the hostile piercing eyes seen and heard utterly from ordinary country folk.

Everyone do not get mad at me but I can even see a mother thinking that maybe she should get her youngest kids out of this place and even back to Italy and out of growing up to be in the coal business, miners etc. like the Sardinians were as well, Jennie Cipriani was not Sardinian.

Anyway I can see a mom stretched to her limits and feeling her family threatened financially and maybe even their lives, agreeing to letting her side of the family have these children, take them far away and love them.

thus, she tended a garden for dead children and he was the one who searched to the end for live children.

Because in the scenario above this one, #1 he murdered the kids accidentally in an insurance scam...so he has to be seen to hysterically believe they are alive somewhere although he has seen their death certificates. In the above scenario #2, Insurance scam, but kids must SEEM dead although have been adopted by loving relatives.

Now, about those 4 vertebrae. 16 to 18 year old. That info about the boat Verona comes in handy yes it does. All of that secrecy about back home, etc. Did someone who was aboard the Verona with them, one of the 11, commit a crime later, like murder a 16 to 18 year old. All that going back and forth to Italy especially the bro who returned directly to Italy after dropping George off...

and to add a Dan Brown masonic twist as one poster suggested...that whole Fra Francesco thing, loved it, the pic of the very handsome Dr. Francesco palermo, with his accolades, notice he received his degree from the University of Verona.

There is something untold about this, we sense it, and it will always elude us.
Interesting!

However, too far-fetched for me. Under these scenarios too many things could go wrong, and go wrong they most certainly did. I actually researched Italian family and culture in studying this case. Family and children are absolutely sacred to them. They would not put their kids in harm's way like that.

Satch
 
nteresting!

However, too far-fetched for me. Under these scenarios too many things could go wrong, and go wrong they most certainly did. I actually researched Italian family and culture in studying this case. Family and children are absolutely sacred to them. They would not put their kids in harm's way like that.

Satch
Update,

The picture spoken about above is not Louis, because the ears and mouth do not match. Reports are the Jennie received that photo in either 1967 or 1968. George died in 1969.

Satch
 
Interesting!

However, too far-fetched for me. Under these scenarios too many things could go wrong, and go wrong they most certainly did. I actually researched Italian family and culture in studying this case. Family and children are absolutely sacred to them. They would not put their kids in harm's way like that.

Satch
second generation Sicilian here. people are just that, and you might be surprised what Italians will and will not do to their families just like anyone else. My beloved Sicilian grandma did all kinds of bad stuff to her kids for what was deemed their own good, lol.
 
second generation Sicilian here. people are just that, and you might be surprised what Italians will and will not do to their families just like anyone else. My beloved Sicilian grandma did all kinds of bad stuff to her kids for what was deemed their own good, lol.
wanted to add...forget about nationalities, well kinda. Think about the Inquisition. They tortured, then under duress the victim recanted. This was to save their souls because unfortunately they were usually executed after recanting. But for their own good lol.

My dad was often tied to a bannister and had the everloving sh%t beat out of him, for his own good, and became a criminal, and get this, an arsonist. He is dead and everything is beyond statute of limitations, yikes am i right, lol, sorry but true.
 

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