Found Deceased WY - Gabby Petito, Grand Teton National Park #86

ktm44

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Exactly, which isn't how a female aggressor is going to act.

It's my understanding that a 48 hour separation is protocol for domestic issues and that abusers don't generally think of time apart as a positive and 48 hours is not enough time for a victim to feel safe or protected.

I totally understand her parents anger and frustration but feel this is a bit of a missed opportunity for the foundation they developed. There absolutely needs to be better understanding of domestic abuse and there needs to be better ways to establish a safer environment to talk to victims than standing right beside the aggressor. Part of their mission statement is to help vicims of violence with education, awareness and prevention strategies.

LE has the ability to protect victims but they have a long way to go on prevention strategies.
 

Gemmie

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That is up for interpretation, "admitted" is not the same as "stated" jmo.
Can you please explain the difference to those of us (namely me. lol) that don't know the difference? I tried to figure it out, and then Googled, but didn't come up with anything. I can't get past if I stated I did something, that's an admission that I did it. Or so I thought. *scratches my head in confusion* :confused:

I'd truly like to understand the difference since there apparently is one. TIA! :)
 

DFWNF

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Can you please explain the difference to those of us (namely me. lol) that don't know the difference? I tried to figure it out, and then Googled, but didn't come up with anything. I can't get past if I stated I did something, that's an admission that I did it. Or so I thought. *scratches my head in confusion* :confused:


I'd truly like to understand the difference since there apparently is one. TIA! :)
oh sure. To me, " admitted" makes it seem like admitting being guilty of a crime, to being the aggressor and at fault. Like something IE the morphew defense lawyer would say to twist the perception of jurors kwim? " Stated" does not have the same implication IME, it seems to me more covering up and protecting him for his actions . IANAL (I must say I really do enjoy your posts )
 

Gemmie

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oh sure. To me, " admitted" makes it seem like admitting being guilty of a crime, to being the aggressor and at fault. Like something IE the morphew defense lawyer would say to twist the perception of jurors kwim? " Stated" does not have the same implication IME, it seems to me more covering up and protecting him for his actions . IANAL (I must say I really do enjoy your posts )
Thank you! (and thank you. :) )
 

RANCH

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oh sure. To me, " admitted" makes it seem like admitting being guilty of a crime, to being the aggressor and at fault. Like something IE the morphew defense lawyer would say to twist the perception of jurors kwim? " Stated" does not have the same implication IME, it seems to me more covering up and protecting him for his actions . IANAL (I must say I really do enjoy your posts )
It seems to me if someone tells a police officer they struck someone first in a domestic dispute it's a statement admitting that is what happened. JMO.
 

NCWatcher

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It seems to me if someone tells a police officer they struck someone first in a domestic dispute it's a statement admitting that is what happened. JMO.
I agree. And while any statement any person makes can be false, if a woman saying the man hit first implicates the man, and a woman saying she hit first implicates the man, is there anything a woman could say to absolve the man? Doesn't sound like it to me.
JMO
 

RANCH

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I agree. And while any statement any person makes can be false, if a woman saying the man hit first implicates the man, and a woman saying she hit first implicates the man, is there anything a woman could say to absolve the man? Doesn't sound like it to me.
JMO
Good post. I was thinking the same thing but couldn't come up with a post that sums it up as well as you did. Thanks.
 

Nikynoo

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IMO, I don't think the outcome would have been any different if LE had arrested/charged BL with DV. But am happy to explore/discuss scenarios where posters think that BLs arrest or charge with DV would have prevented Gabbys death.

Remember, there was separation of the two the evening of the LE stop, plus BL went back to Florida for several days, which to my mind, should have given both young adults the space to decide the future of their relationship. In addition, both young adults had counsel of their parents during their time apart.

If it is true that Gabby did speak to her mum whilst sat in the Police car, did Gabby tell her mum all of what happened? If so, what solution did they discuss and more importantly, why did NS dismiss this incident as within the normal ranges of ups and downs in a relationship? - THIS IS A QUESTION THAT WILL BE ASKED AT TRIAL.

I have a feeling that Gabbys parents need to tread carefully, especially if this goes to trial (and that incudes the case(s) in Florida too. Attorneys will put Gabby and Brians relationship and question why, if her parents were so concerned, they didn't help her escape this relationship. I would also hazard a guess that the parents relationship with each other and Gabby will also be explored.

All IMO.

Edited to add - IMO if G and B's relationship was truly abusive, it had been for a while. LE do not have sole responsbility for ensuring Gabby's safety, her family and friends do too.
 

NCWatcher

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IMO, I don't think the outcome would have been any different if LE had arrested/charged BL with DV. But am happy to explore/discuss scenarios where posters think that BLs arrest or charge with DV would have prevented Gabbys death.

Remember, there was separation of the two the evening of the LE stop, plus BL went back to Florida for several days, which to my mind, should have given both young adults the space to decide the future of their relationship. In addition, both young adults had counsel of their parents during their time apart.

If it is true that Gabby did speak to her mum whilst sat in the Police car, did Gabby tell her mum all of what happened? If so, what solution did they discuss and more importantly, why did NS dismiss this incident as within the normal ranges of ups and downs in a relationship? - THIS IS A QUESTION THAT WILL BE ASKED AT TRIAL.

I have a feeling that Gabbys parents need to tread carefully, especially if this goes to trial (and that incudes the case(s) in Florida too. Attorneys will put Gabby and Brians relationship and question why, if her parents were so concerned, they didn't help her escape this relationship. I would also hazard a guess that the parents relationship with each other and Gabby will also be explored.

All IMO.

Edited to add - IMO if G and B's relationship was truly abusive, it had been for a while. LE do not have sole responsbility for ensuring Gabby's safety, her family and friends do too.
Very interesting post. I also have wondered if GP did call "her parents" during the incident as the notice of claim states, why the incident later turned into just an ordinary "road trip argument" in NS's eyes. (The claim says GP called "her parents" but maybe it was just NS she called & NS talked to JP & the others? I doubt there was any conference calling during the police stop.)

Further, NS has said when she couldn't reach GP in late Aug/early Sept, the family initially thought both GP and BL were missing.

‘We Thought They Were Both Missing’: Gabby Petito’s Parents Say They Were Also Concerned About Brian Laundrie as His Family Ignored Their Calls

If the family knew about the Moab incident that had happened a bit more 2 weeks earlier as their latest legal filing now says, I'm not sure why both G&B being missing would have been the family's first thought. I'm not sure it would have been mine. But if they thought that, I'm not sure why they wouldn't have wondered if they were both in jail somewhere. (Maybe they did wonder that but I have never seen that possibility mentioned. I'd wonder too if the Moab incident was mentioned to LE when the missing person report was initially filed. It's not been reported if it was.)

My point is that if her family wasn't thinking intimate partner violence in the multi-year live-in relationship even after they knew about Moab, is it reasonable to expect the Moab LE to be able to spot a realistic likelihood of that in such a brief time without any historical knowledge? I guess one could argue it's always best to put people in jail "just in case," but that can't really work in the US. (I'm also not so sure what the P's reaction would have been if GP had been jailed.)

The couple spent nearly 3 weeks in NY at the Schmidt house in June/early July. Rose D. did mention an incident in FL the year before when GP got mad and "slapped" BL and BL "shoved" GP in response but the P's have said, repeatedly, they never had a hint of anything wrong. And they said that when they already knew about Moab from GP's call before the LE tape of the stop surfaced. And before the tape came to light, nothing was ever mentioned about the incident in the multiple interviews the family gave. Tara P said she was once in an abusive relationship but said she saw no red flags with G&B. So whatever GP told them during the police stop must not have been a red flag to Tara either even though supposedly the initial reaction of GP's parents was to make GP fly home. It almost sounds like the P's initially viewed the incident the way Moab LE did-- a mental health crisis, not a DV red flag.

JMO
 

Nikynoo

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Very interesting post. I also have wondered if GP did call "her parents" during the incident as the notice of claim states, why the incident later turned into just an ordinary "road trip argument" in NS's eyes. (The claim says GP called "her parents" but maybe it was just NS she called & NS talked to JP & the others? I doubt there was any conference calling during the police stop.)

Further, NS has said when she couldn't reach GP in late Aug/early Sept, the family initially thought both GP and BL were missing.

‘We Thought They Were Both Missing’: Gabby Petito’s Parents Say They Were Also Concerned About Brian Laundrie as His Family Ignored Their Calls

If the family knew about the Moab incident that had happened a bit more 2 weeks earlier as their latest legal filing now says, I'm not sure why both G&B being missing would have been the family's first thought. I'm not sure it would have been mine. But if they thought that, I'm not sure why they wouldn't have wondered if they were both in jail somewhere. (Maybe they did wonder that but I have never seen that possibility mentioned. I'd wonder too if the Moab incident was mentioned to LE when the missing person report was initially filed. It's not been reported if it was.)

My point is that if her family wasn't thinking intimate partner violence in the multi-year live-in relationship even after they knew about Moab, is it reasonable to expect the Moab LE to be able to spot a realistic likelihood of that in such a brief time without any historical knowledge? I guess one could argue it's always best to put people in jail "just in case," but that can't really work in the US. (I'm also not so sure what the P's reaction would have been if GP had been jailed.)

The couple spent nearly 3 weeks in NY at the Schmidt house in June/early July. Rose D. did mention an incident in FL the year before when GP got mad and "slapped" BL and BL "shoved" GP in response but the P's have said, repeatedly, they never had a hint of anything wrong. And they said that when they already knew about Moab from GP's call before the LE tape of the stop surfaced. And before the tape came to light, nothing was ever mentioned about the incident in the multiple interviews the family gave. Tara P said she was once in an abusive relationship but said she saw no red flags with G&B. So whatever GP told them during the police stop must not have been a red flag to Tara either even though supposedly the initial reaction of GP's parents was to make GP fly home. It almost sounds like the P's initially viewed the incident the way Moab LE did-- a mental health crisis, not a DV red flag.

JMO
Thanks!
IMO, neither would have been put in jail. I seem to recall from the MOAB video release, that any court appearance would be held remotely and jail time wasn't mentioned even if guilt was established.
From the transcript and BBM - Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie Utah Bodycam Footage Transcript Before Disappearance

'So unfortunately for her, just because he’s bigger and stronger even if he’s not willing to press charges, we can’t treat this differently than if it was a male on female violence. And we’re going to have to charge her and we can do a citation if there’s some arrangement that they could be made to separate them. And then we have to let them know that there’s no contact order in effect. Then we have to let him know the only way to drop is going into the police department during business hours and fill out a waiver, which by the way, what’s today? Thursday?'

'the law says we have to charge her it doesn’t say we have to put her in jail'.

'Okay, but it also says we have to separate you, a no contact order and that we have to put her in jail if we cannot separate you.'

So,IMO,it seems to me, if the situation was reversed, there would have been no difference in the final outcome.
 
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WingsOverTX

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IMO, I don't think the outcome would have been any different if LE had arrested/charged BL with DV. But am happy to explore/discuss scenarios where posters think that BLs arrest or charge with DV would have prevented Gabbys death.

Remember, there was separation of the two the evening of the LE stop, plus BL went back to Florida for several days, which to my mind, should have given both young adults the space to decide the future of their relationship. In addition, both young adults had counsel of their parents during their time apart.

If it is true that Gabby did speak to her mum whilst sat in the Police car, did Gabby tell her mum all of what happened? If so, what solution did they discuss and more importantly, why did NS dismiss this incident as within the normal ranges of ups and downs in a relationship? - THIS IS A QUESTION THAT WILL BE ASKED AT TRIAL.

I have a feeling that Gabbys parents need to tread carefully, especially if this goes to trial (and that incudes the case(s) in Florida too. Attorneys will put Gabby and Brians relationship and question why, if her parents were so concerned, they didn't help her escape this relationship. I would also hazard a guess that the parents relationship with each other and Gabby will also be explored.

All IMO.

Edited to add - IMO if G and B's relationship was truly abusive, it had been for a while. LE do not have sole responsbility for ensuring Gabby's safety, her family and friends do too.
BBM
That is my belief also. We keep looking outside GP & BL for resolution/solutions.

They were adults with individual agency that needed to be respected. Young and immature but adults.

I actually think their continued dependence on the parents contributed to the poor dynamic between GP & BL (although I would not blame the three sets of parents for the outcome). Only Gabby seemed to have any plan for the future and independence. Instead of admiring that, BL felt threatened by it. He was not ready for a partnership & there were red flags ignored by GP (probably many more than we know).

When they took the step to live together, encountering the reality of living independent of their parents & paying their own bills could have made it clear whether there was a future between them.

The pressure of living in that tiny van & traveling together told the truth of the relationship. Being far away from their safety nets was a test that failed poor Gabby despite her best efforts. She wasn't ready to do van life alone & BL wasn't able/ready to do van life with her.

I don't see how an American court is going to be able to assess "blame". The liability GP's parents are seeking to establish may help them feel better but the issue that killed GP is not going to be resolved by any litigation.

When they drove away in that van, the only thing that could have prevented GP's death was her realization she was really & truly attempting to do life and establish independence with the wrong person. She didn't have time to get there, sadly.

BTW, I am not arguing against legal actions of the Petitos and Schmidts. Whether these suits are wise or will be successful are open questions.

Liability for the DV is not resolvable no matter what any of the parties are asked or their responses. Including LE, IMO.

Liability for action/inaction by the L's afterwards might be. The cases are still alive so maybe.

JMHO
 

BeachSky

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“They threatened her with being incarcerated. Think about calling your parents when you’re 20-something years old and telling them, ‘Hey, Mom and Dad, I’m in jail in another state. Can you bail me out?’ She would have been mortified,” Dragiewicz said. “And they let her sit there and think that’s what was happening for quite a long time. ... It all sends a message to the victim that the officer’s aligning himself with your perpetrator.”
Such treatment could, at the very least, discourage someone who’s been experiencing intimate partner violence or coercive control from contacting authorities again. Dragiewicz pointed out that Petito seemed scared and likely would not have called the police for help in the future. It could also reinforce the controlling partner’s hold over them. “It’s easy to imagine how an abusive person would gloat about that and say, ‘Well, you saw what happened. They believe me”
 

NCWatcher

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Thanks!
IMO, neither would have been put in jail. I seem to recall from the MOAB video release, that any court appearance would be held remotely and jail time wasn't mentioned even if guilt was established. I'll see if I can find the transcript.
I think you could right about Moab. Now that you mention it I have a vague memory of reading that somewhere. And even in situations where jail/posting bond used to be part of the outcome, COVID and political considerations have often changed that. So an arrest might not have caused a separation any longer than the "mental health" break did (and maybe not even that long.) BUT I'd still think if the P's knew there was even the smallest chance of an arrest in Moab, the possibility she or both she & BL could have been in jail somewhere else might have come to mind when they couldn't reach them. But it didn't seem to.

Up until the notice of claim was filed by the P's I had no doubt the P's didn't know about the Moab incident until the tape was made public. That while LE suggested GP call someone like her parents, and we saw her with her phone to her ear, she didn't call the P's. She either faked a call altogether or called someone else, maybe Rose. But the P's now say she did call them during the incident so I don't know what to think.
JMO
 

Nikynoo

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I think you could right about Moab. Now that you mention it I have a vague memory of reading that somewhere. And even in situations where jail/posting bond used to be part of the outcome, COVID and political considerations have often changed that. So an arrest might not have caused a separation any longer than the "mental health" break did (and maybe not even that long.) BUT I'd still think if the P's knew there was even the smallest chance of an arrest in Moab, the possibility she or both she & BL could have been in jail somewhere else might have come to mind when they couldn't reach them. But it didn't seem to.

Up until the notice of claim was filed by the P's I had no doubt the P's didn't know about the Moab incident until the tape was made public. That while LE suggested GP call someone like her parents, and we saw her with her phone to her ear, she didn't call the P's. She either faked a call altogether or called someone else, maybe Rose. But the P's now say she did call them during the incident so I don't know what to think.
JMO
from the transcript in my updated post: Gabby Petito & Brian Laundrie Utah Bodycam Footage Transcript Before Disappearance
'But she’s going to have a court date online in a week or two. She’s going to have to show up for her court date online and answer. The prosecutor might drop it. She might say, for example, if you’re not willing to pursue it, if that’s your decision.'

There is also reference in the transcript about this being a class B crime - but I don't know what that actually means.

Reading the transcript refreshed my memory, especially about what was going on in the van whilst it was being pulled over for the stop.
 

Megnut

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I think the point of the 50 million dollar lawsuit is awareness. This will bring that. Any settlement will likely fund future education, awareness and support but the process will bring media attention. LE training and retraining. And IMO the ultimate goal -- to bring awareness into relationships, families, schools, communities so that young people better rrecognize the signs of abuse early and have resources to leave safely.

What's that saying, every time a bell rings, an angel gets her wings?

Because the P family has chosen to honor Gabby's memory in such a full extraordinary, and gracious way, maybe every time a life is saved from the horrors of DV, every time a potential agent of DV learns a better way to deal with inadequacy, every time LE intervenes in a productive way, every time there's a model for healthy relationshipping, Gabby gets another feather in her wings?

IMO out of Gabby's tragedy lives will be saved.

JMO
 

BeachSky

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Punishing & ghosting are covert methods of operation. He locked her out of the van many times. He plugged into her fear of abandonment again on that last leg of their trip. Post Moab , he flew home. Left her there alone.
He ultimately ghosted law enforcement.
Punished
GP (post death) by saying she basically asked/needed to be killed.
Even in death he wanted everyone to believe he was the victim.

She wasn’t crazy.
She wasn’t mean.
She was -THE VICTIM-


MOO
 
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