Found Deceased WY - Gabby Petito, Grand Teton National Park #86

Sundog

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I think the point of the 50 million dollar lawsuit is awareness. This will bring that. Any settlement will likely fund future education, awareness and support but the process will bring media attention. LE training and retraining. And IMO the ultimate goal -- to bring awareness into relationships, families, schools, communities so that young people better rrecognize the signs of abuse early and have resources to leave safely.

What's that saying, every time a bell rings, an angel gets her wings?

Because the P family has chosen to honor Gabby's memory in such a full extraordinary, and gracious way, maybe every time a life is saved from the horrors of DV, every time a potential agent of DV learns a better way to deal with inadequacy, every time LE intervenes in a productive way, every time there's a model for healthy relationshipping, Gabby gets another feather in her wings?

IMO out of Gabby's tragedy lives will be saved.

JMO
At the expense of the taxpayers of Utah and the lives of well-meaning police officers who were wringing their hands about how to help this young couple without giving them criminal records? JMO, but I think fund-raising would be a better way to fund awareness-raising campaigns.
 
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ktm44

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It seems to me if someone tells a police officer they struck someone first in a domestic dispute it's a statement admitting that is what happened. JMO.

Technically, you are correct but there were a lot of failures in this. The dispatcher did not correctly relay the information they were given, which started things down a very wrong path.

LE are aware that men are also abused so while Gabby did admit she struck BL, there seemed to be evidence to the contrary. Gabby seemed to have bruising/red marks on her arm, there is mention of blood on her face (which I have not seen) and the two should have been separated for questioning.

I'm still uncertain that anything they would have done would have changed the outcome but I do feel there is a need for police to assess situations beyond actual statements and at the very least, they should have looked them both over for injuries.
 

RANCH

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Technically, you are correct but there were a lot of failures in this. The dispatcher did not correctly relay the information they were given, which started things down a very wrong path.

LE are aware that men are also abused so while Gabby did admit she struck BL, there seemed to be evidence to the contrary. Gabby seemed to have bruising/red marks on her arm, there is mention of blood on her face (which I have not seen) and the two should have been separated for questioning.

I'm still uncertain that anything they would have done would have changed the outcome but I do feel there is a need for police to assess situations beyond actual statements and at the very least, they should have looked them both over for injuries.
I'm certain that if LE had arrested either one of them it would not have prevented Gabby's death. JMO.
 

DFWNF

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<modsnip - quoted post was removed for victim-blaming> Jmo, we do not have a transcript of what Gabby's Moab call revealed, I think I understand it was later referred to as an argument by NS? The officers on scene, and dispatch, witness report and perhaps others knew differently imo. Was it ever stated the police spoke with Gabby's family? They weren't there. I believe once they saw the full video it horrified and further terrified them. It was released to the public after Gabby was reported missing iirc. Can only imagine them watching that. Heartbreaking. If my daughter called me crying about an "argument" with her boyfriend while on a trip, I imagine I would conaole her as best I could, ask her to come home to me so I could love her up and discuss it and offer my advice. I would not leap to my child being brutally murdered, stolen from, left in the wild, such disgusting and evil utter torture for her parents, and also being blocked/ignored by the killer and his family as we begged for help with info and finding her (initially to find both of them). .
 
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ktm44

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I'm certain that if LE had arrested either one of them it would not have prevented Gabby's death. JMO.

I'm more inclined to believe that if Gabby had been arrested, it may have prevented her death. I feel BL's family would have provided passive support (money or a lawyer) but I feel one of her parents would have gone to Utah.

<modsnip - implication of Gabby’s family being responsible>
 
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cenazoic

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This is what I’m curious about:

- did Gabby call NS from the patrol car?

- assume Gabby WASN’T murdered later on, but events in Moab played out exactly the same. Would the Petitos still have standing to file suit?

- someone upthread mentioned the ‘Moab incident’ in relation to advice the Ps gave/didn’t give Gabby. What exactly did they know (the incident in town, the cops pulling them over, both?) and when did they know it?
 

housewife

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That is absolutely true. Victims of domestic violence often take take blame or protect their abuser. But female abuse of males in domestic situations is also very common. These officers would know that. They made a decision based upon what they saw at the time.
RBBM
Do you have a source for that? Because all my research says the exact opposite...
 

PrairieWind

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RBBM
Do you have a source for that? Because all my research says the exact opposite...
That female on male domestic violence is common? I see it a lot in the Courts. It is a sad reality and it used to never be reported. Times are changing fortunately. No person, male or female, adult or child deserves to be abused. And it doesn't matter if the abuser is a lot smaller than the victim.
 

DFWNF

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RBBM
Do you have a source for that? Because all my research says the exact opposite...
My understanding is abuse of males by partners, male or female, and sexual abuse by males, often in positions of authority imo, is not reported as often as it happens due to fear of others knowing, possible embarrassment, blaming themselves, worries about their sexuality etc. But female on male is not very common in comparison imo. Not going to post as fact with a link, this is jmo/jme and what I will post.
 

LinasK

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That female on male domestic violence is common? I see it a lot in the Courts. It is a sad reality and it used to never be reported. Times are changing fortunately. No person, male or female, adult or child deserves to be abused. And it doesn't matter if the abuser is a lot smaller than the victim.
True, but an abuser isn't going to be the one crying real tears, which tells me right there who was the aggressor- Brian. He coldly stood there and told police that she was the one who had mental problems, while he was the one who took her phone and locked her out of the van. It was obvious to me immediately who had started this fight.
 

DFWNF

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This is what I’m curious about:

- did Gabby call NS from the patrol car?

- assume Gabby WASN’T murdered later on, but events in Moab played out exactly the same. Would the Petitos still have standing to file suit?

- someone upthread mentioned the ‘Moab incident’ in relation to advice the Ps gave/didn’t give Gabby. What exactly did they know (the incident in town, the cops pulling them over, both?) and when did they know it?


Your item 3 we don't know JMO.
 

PrairieWind

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True, but an abuser isn't going to be the one crying real tears, which tells me right there who was the aggressor- Brian. He coldly stood there and told police that she was the one who had mental problems, while he was the one who took her phone and locked her out of the van. It was obvious to me immediately who had started this fight.
I had a case about a year ago, boyfriend was smacked around good by drunk girlfriend (not uncommon). Neighbors called police. Fortunately this was largely caught on a neighbor's Ring camera. She calls him a , and lots of other vile things as she hit and kicked at him. He grabbed her wrists several times to try to stop her from hitting him. When the officers arrived, she turned on the water works and showed the red on her arms he was arrested and she went and got a restraining order on him from his own home. We were able to get the charges dropped and restraining order thrown out. But if it hadn't been for that video.......
 

PrairieWind

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This is what I’m curious about:

- did Gabby call NS from the patrol car?

- assume Gabby WASN’T murdered later on, but events in Moab played out exactly the same. Would the Petitos still have standing to file suit?

- someone upthread mentioned the ‘Moab incident’ in relation to advice the Ps gave/didn’t give Gabby. What exactly did they know (the incident in town, the cops pulling them over, both?) and when did they know it?
If Gabby hadn't been murdered, her parents would have no standing to sue the city of Moab. That would rest with Gabby.
 

NCWatcher

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This is what I’m curious about:

- did Gabby call NS from the patrol car?

- assume Gabby WASN’T murdered later on, but events in Moab played out exactly the same. Would the Petitos still have standing to file suit?

- someone upthread mentioned the ‘Moab incident’ in relation to advice the Ps gave/didn’t give Gabby. What exactly did they know (the incident in town, the cops pulling them over, both?) and when did they know it?

From the Notice of Claim filed by the Petitos:

"While the police interviewed Brian and Gabby, Gabby was on the phone with her parents. They demanded that Gabby fly home to get away from Brian, offering to pay for her ride to Salt Lake City and her flight home. But upon learning the police were involved they accepted Gabby's assurances that she should continue her trip."

I don't understand why the incident wasn't a continuing red flag to the P's but apparently it wasn't given things that were said when Gabby was missing. I'm also not sure why knowing the police were involved was seen as a good thing. Of course, we know that legal filings like this and like those in the other case aren't evidence. But the above statement is from the P's.
JMO
 

housewife

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LinasK

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I had a case about a year ago, boyfriend was smacked around good by drunk girlfriend (not uncommon). Neighbors called police. Fortunately this was largely caught on a neighbor's Ring camera. She calls him a , and lots of other vile things as she hit and kicked at him. He grabbed her wrists several times to try to stop her from hitting him. When the officers arrived, she turned on the water works and showed the red on her arms he was arrested and she went and got a restraining order on him from his own home. We were able to get the charges dropped and restraining order thrown out. But if it hadn't been for that video.......
I'm not saying that females don't assault males, but in this case it was clear that Gabby's tears were real, not "waterworks turned on for the police", and the Moab officers still didn't believe that Gabby was the victim. She also blamed herself, which is something that an abused woman does, not an aggressor. Also, there were eyewitnesses who called in him slapping her- not "restraining her from hitting him".
 

NCWatcher

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I'm not saying that females don't assault males, but in this case it was clear that Gabby's tears were real, not "waterworks turned on for the police", and the Moab officers still didn't believe that Gabby was the victim. She also blamed herself, which is something that an abused woman does, not an aggressor. Also, there were eyewitnesses who called in him slapping her- not "restraining her from hitting him".
Of course, the officers should have known about what the 911 caller said. No matter what the law enforcement issue might be, not giving officers in the field any information that could be needed during their investigation is wrong and potentially dangerous.

But otherwise, I think the problem is LE believed what Gabby told them but they didn't want to take the next step of arresting her. (Some potential gender bias there, I expect.) It's not that LE didn't believe her. They did-- she said she hit BL and she said she hit him first. And he did have some marks on him. And LE believed what GP said. And that would mean arresting her was warranted under Utah law.

I honestly don't know what the solution is for on-the-spot assessment of future DV potential. People say officers aren't social workers and they aren't. But even a social worker, psychologist, or psychiatrist might have trouble making an on-the-spot assessment. And even though it might lead to correct decisions some of the time, the rule can't be in a M-F interaction the woman is always the victim. Or the smallest person is always the victim. And it can't be the one crying is always the victim, or the woman should be believed unless she says she hit first then she shouldn't be believed.
JMO
 

nyvictoria

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And I think, at her age, Gabby just lacked the life experience to recognize abuse as opposed to thinking she was simply "helping" her easily upset and very sensitive boyfriend. I truly don't think she understood the situation she was in or that it was going to get worse, much worse.
I completely agree. DV victims, especially young ones, tend to downplay this behavior. This is where friends and relatives need to step in and let the victim know that this is not ok and that it will escalate.
 
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GRT

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That female on male domestic violence is common? I see it a lot in the Courts. It is a sad reality and it used to never be reported. Times are changing fortunately. No person, male or female, adult or child deserves to be abused. And it doesn't matter if the abuser is a lot smaller than the victim.
Yes, female abuse of males is common, but only recently does it seem to be coming out of the shadows. Most of the time it's something not too abusive -- a slap, a pinch, a punch in the arm. Women have been able to get by with that for decades, and Hollywood even played it up in old movies, such as Gone With the Wind. The heroine righteously slaps the cheeky male.

Females (most of the time) don't do a lot of physical damage, while males can do horrific damage.
 
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