Found Deceased WY - Gabby Petito, Grand Teton National Park #86

NCWatcher

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<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>Tara Petito .... said she didn't see any red flags in Gabby and Brian's relationship even with her own experience. Her prior bad relationship reportedly ended when the guy hit her but she had also started to realize he was "isolating" her. I saw multiple links to Tara's statement at the time, but here's one I can find now. The statement was made on a Dr. Oz show when the P and S families told Dr. Oz they saw nothing wrong in G&B's relationship (except in hindsight. Then JP said "all the hallmarks" were there.)


Rose has claimed Brian wanted to isolate Gabby and maybe he did. Rose also thought traveling was initially Brian's idea and that doesn't sound right to me. Everybody else has talked about traveling and visiting national parks being Gabby's idea. Maybe Brian just didn't like Rose? For lots of possible reasons? And I'm not sure how isolated GP was anyway. They mostly lived with other people and visited NS for nearly 3 weeks before the trip.
JMO
 
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WingsOverTX

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<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>
Gabby's friend Rose knew GP & BL had physical altercations. I think she tried to help Gabby & warned her to move on but her advice was ignored. I think a timeline could be established based on GP leaving the L residence to stay with Rose overnight several times due to conflict with BL. I think Rose knew it was 2-way abuse.

The L's would likely have known GP was "taking a break" by staying with Rose & maybe even why to whatever degree. Even GP's parents may have known about trouble in the relationship. Their kids were adults so what intervention would have been possible? Adults get to make bad choices.

When GP was in Salt Lake City alone for a week the month she died, she had a lot of phone contact with her Dad helping her work on her blog. Surely he would have had 2nd thoughts about any excuse for BL flying home (plus unexpected expenses for hotel & flight).

We can perhaps say with certainty that GP ignored the seriousness of the DV but others may have tried unsuccessfully to intervene. We really don't know.

I think responsibility rests with the deceased more than anyone else. They chose to continue an unhealthy relationship with known red flags. I am not victim-blaming GP. I am just pointing out that ADULTS make choices and have to live (or sadly in this case, die) with the consequences. Let's not infantilize GP& BL. Yes, they were young and still financially reliant on their parents. GP had supportive parents who would have helped her if asked. She didn't ask as far as we know.

It's complicated but I do not agree most of the troubles in their relationship, including DV behaviors, were unknown.

JMHO
 
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TL4S

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<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> Gabby's friend Rose knew GP & BL had physical altercations. I think she tried to help Gabby & warned her to move on but her advice was ignored. I think a timeline could be established based on GP leaving the L residence to stay with Rose overnight several times due to conflict with BL. I think Rose knew it was 2-way abuse.

The L's would likely have known GP was "taking a break" by staying with Rose & maybe even why to whatever degree. Even GP's parents may have known about trouble in the relationship. Their kids were adults so what intervention would have been possible? Adults get to make bad choices.

When GP was in Salt Lake City alone for a week the month she died, she had a lot of phone contact with her Dad helping her work on her blog. Surely he would have had 2nd thoughts about any excuse for BL flying home (plus unexpected expenses for hotel & flight).

We can perhaps say with certainty that GP ignored the seriousness of the DV but others may have tried unsuccessfully to intervene. We really don't know.

I think responsibility rests with the deceased more than anyone else. They chose to continue an unhealthy relationship with known red flags. I am not victim-blaming GP. I am just pointing out that ADULTS make choices and have to live (or sadly in this case, die) with the consequences. Let's not infantilize GP& BL. Yes, they were young and still financially reliant on their parents. GP had supportive parents who would have helped her if asked. She didn't ask as far as we know.

It's complicated but I do not agree most of the troubles in their relationship, including DV behaviors, were unknown.

JMHO
I think you're right, some people seemed to know, at least to some extent, and I also agree that the deceased are responsible. At some point, the blame has to stop shifting. Like you said, GP and BL were the ones staying in the relationship, regardless what advice anyone had been giving. Ultimately, the final responsibility falls on BL.

Someone else pointed this out earlier, but Moab police might hold more blame had the murder happened that night. But weeks later? It's so hard to guess the outcome at that point.
 
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WingsOverTX

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I think you're right, some people seemed to know, at least to some extent, and I also agree that the deceased are responsible. At some point, the blame has to stop shifting. Like you said, GP and BL were ultimately the ones staying in the relationship, regardless what advice anyone had been giving.
IMO, Gabby had enormous potential, was talented & had an amazing life ahead of her. I am very sad she is no longer with us. I am very glad her legacy will include spreading awareness of DV and preventing other deaths.
 

housewife

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MOO. I think Gabby's slapping of Brian was reactive violence, which is what victims do to defend themselves or try to get the abuse to stop. Reactive violence stops as soon as the abuser stops their actions.

While we focus on the murder of Gabby by Brian's hands, I wanted to include some research.
While both women and men can be victims and perpetrators of IPV,[60] the majority of such violence is inflicted upon women,[61][62] who are also much more likely to suffer injuries as a result, in both heterosexual and same-sex relationships.[14] Although men and women commit equivalent rates of unreported minor violence via situational altercation, more severe perpetration and domestic battery tends to be committed by men.[55][13][11]

Nobody deserves to be abused, obviously. I'm glad male victims are getting their day in court to obtain justice, just as women have been trying for so long. I hope our justice system doesn't continue to fail either gender.
 

NCWatcher

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<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> Gabby's friend Rose knew GP & BL had physical altercations. I think she tried to help Gabby & warned her to move on but her advice was ignored. I think a timeline could be established based on GP leaving the L residence to stay with Rose overnight several times due to conflict with BL. I think Rose knew it was 2-way abuse.

The L's would likely have known GP was "taking a break" by staying with Rose & maybe even why to whatever degree. Even GP's parents may have known about trouble in the relationship. Their kids were adults so what intervention would have been possible? Adults get to make bad choices.

When GP was in Salt Lake City alone for a week the month she died, she had a lot of phone contact with her Dad helping her work on her blog. Surely he would have had 2nd thoughts about any excuse for BL flying home (plus unexpected expenses for hotel & flight).

We can perhaps say with certainty that GP ignored the seriousness of the DV but others may have tried unsuccessfully to intervene. We really don't know.

I think responsibility rests with the deceased more than anyone else. They chose to continue an unhealthy relationship with known red flags. I am not victim-blaming GP. I am just pointing out that ADULTS make choices and have to live (or sadly in this case, die) with the consequences. Let's not infantilize GP& BL. Yes, they were young and still financially reliant on their parents. GP had supportive parents who would have helped her if asked. She didn't ask as far as we know.

It's complicated but I do not agree most of the troubles in their relationship, including DV behaviors, were unknown.

JMHO
I agree with your conclusion. But we don't know if GP ever stayed overnight with Rose while she lived with the L's. So I wouldn't count on the L's ever knowing that GP did that. We just don't know. Remember Rose denied the couple ever lived with the L's & said they always lived for free in the condo owned by the L's. But we know that's not true. So I'm not sure how reliable Rose is as a reporter. It also sounds like to me GP didn't see much of Rose in the months leading up to the trip.


I'm also not sure how much Rose tried to warn GP about DV.


"Gabby told her mother she’d put off the engagement, but according to Rose, they were still looking to get married.

‘I told her you’re young and Brian is a little controlling for her, but I also told her to do what makes you happy and I’m here to support you,’ she said."

She did talk about GP slapping BL in interviews but she sounded proud of her for doing that because GP did it once when she thought he kept GP from going to a bar to dance and hang out with Rose. Honestly it's not clear if Rose saw that aspect of the relationship as a problem. The control aspect is what bothered her especially since much of that was aimed at keeping GP and Rose apart (and Rose said GP was her "emotional support human." It sounds like it was said jokingly but I'm not sure there wasn't just a power struggle between Rose and BL for GP.)

JP could have talked to GP while BL was in FL as we're told they worked on video together by phone while she stayed in a SLC hotel. But later on, the P's seemed to have discounted the Moab incident completely. NS said it was a natural occurrence when traveling in a small van. And none of them referred to the Moab incident in anything they said until the video became public. They always said no red flags.

I do agree though it was ultimately up to Gabby to decide what to do. But I also think if we give everybody who was a significant part of Gabby's life a break, the cops who interacted with her briefly should also get a break. She said she hit first. She didn't say she hit in self-defense. She didn't say she hit in response to being hit. She said she did it.
JMO
 
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CocoChanel

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ADMIN NOTE

Please move on from debating who should have known better with regards to the Petito family. That smacks of victim-blaming, which is in opposition to Websleuths’ victim/family-friendly true crime discussion forum. Gabby and the Petito family are considered victims. Shoulda/coulda/woulda in regards to the Petitos will not fly here. You can debate the strength of the lawsuit, but not implicate the victim or her family for the responsibility for her tragic death.
 

GRT

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IMO, Gabby had enormous potential, was talented & had an amazing life ahead of her. I am very sad she is no longer with us. I am very glad her legacy will include spreading awareness of DV and preventing other deaths.


That's what I hope for. I hope some young woman out there becomes acquainted the case and sees the warning signs in her own relationship before another unthinkable event happens.

The problem is that too many young people are headstrong and think things will just "work out." Or perhaps they're hopeful the abusive party will "change."

In Gabby and Brian's case, I don't think the police or anyone else is to blame. Hindsignt is 20:20, and I was impressed the way the officers separated them and talked to them alone. Gabby had a chance to tell them Brian was abusing her at that point and it would have been all over. But, she didn't, and I don't really think the violence escalated until later.

But at the end of the day, Gabby was an adult and she willingly chose to stay with Brian. I doubt there was anything anyone else could have done, even had they seen warning signs, which I don't think they did.

We'll never know exactly what happened on that mountain.
 

Warwick7

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Watching the video again. Watching Gabby do so much apologizing really bothers me.

I see repetitive apologizing.

"Nearly constant apologies for every little thing—or, what Psychologist Paige Carambio, PsyD calls, “apologizing for existing”—can actually be an after-effect of trauma, a self-preservation technique survivors may think they still need to utilize in order to protect themselves."

 
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Warwick7

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"She is taking responsibility for getting HIM upset. That is a red flag abuse victim script.

"She is the one that that is in distress."

The body language expert also noted Gabby rubs her neck.

"That is a comfort cue, but I think it's a mimicking action of where she felt vulnerable on her neck," Patti added.

"If people touch around the carotid artery -- the vulnerable part of the neck -- that typically indicates a great fear and vulnerability of safety."

 

PiperAria

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Something has been really making me crazy. I wonder if anyone has a really good memory (I am usually not so flaky, but I swear I have read every single thing pertaining to this case so I do forget from which source a lot of it came).
At one point, I could swear I either 1. Read an article with a quote or 2. Heard an interview with J Petito that clearly said “I ordered them a pizza.” MOO, but that sounded as if he thought both Gabby and Brian were holed up in the SLC hotel during storms/power outages and didn’t know BL had flown back to FL
Does anyone else remember this and the source? I know if it was in print, it could be a misquote or writer error, but if I could find the source I think we’d be better able to guess if that were the case. With all the mystery still surrounding BL’s trip back, i always wondered if Gabby kept it from her dad/both her parents. Somewhat ties in to the question of whether/what they knew regarding Moab (as has been discussed here recently).
I’ve spent time googling all sorts of crazy combos trying to find it but have gotten nowhere

TIA
MOO JMO
 

gliving

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Something has been really making me crazy. I wonder if anyone has a really good memory (I am usually not so flaky, but I swear I have read every single thing pertaining to this case so I do forget from which source a lot of it came).
At one point, I could swear I either 1. Read an article with a quote or 2. Heard an interview with J Petito that clearly said “I ordered them a pizza.” MOO, but that sounded as if he thought both Gabby and Brian were holed up in the SLC hotel during storms/power outages and didn’t know BL had flown back to FL
Does anyone else remember this and the source? I know if it was in print, it could be a misquote or writer error, but if I could find the source I think we’d be better able to guess if that were the case. With all the mystery still surrounding BL’s trip back, i always wondered if Gabby kept it from her dad/both her parents. Somewhat ties in to the question of whether/what they knew regarding Moab (as has been discussed here recently).
I’ve spent time googling all sorts of crazy combos trying to find it but have gotten nowhere

TIA
MOO JMO
I read 'elsewhere' that it's from a Nancy Grace podcast. The pizza part begins at about the 23 minute mark. It's a Spotify broadcast and I'm unable to jump ahead in the audio so I can't answer your question just now.

 

SeesSeas

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Something has been really making me crazy. I wonder if anyone has a really good memory (I am usually not so flaky, but I swear I have read every single thing pertaining to this case so I do forget from which source a lot of it came).
At one point, I could swear I either 1. Read an article with a quote or 2. Heard an interview with J Petito that clearly said “I ordered them a pizza.” MOO, but that sounded as if he thought both Gabby and Brian were holed up in the SLC hotel during storms/power outages and didn’t know BL had flown back to FL
Does anyone else remember this and the source? I know if it was in print, it could be a misquote or writer error, but if I could find the source I think we’d be better able to guess if that were the case. With all the mystery still surrounding BL’s trip back, i always wondered if Gabby kept it from her dad/both her parents. Somewhat ties in to the question of whether/what they knew regarding Moab (as has been discussed here recently).
I’ve spent time googling all sorts of crazy combos trying to find it but have gotten nowhere

TIA
MOO JMO

wfla/specialprojects/gabby-petito-timeline/gabby-petito-timeline
Sources: WFLA reports

AUGUST 21

Gabby's father, Joseph Petito, last speaks with his daughter in a FaceTime call. He helps her order a pizza in Salt Lake City and talks to her about the trip so far.

He later says he noticed no red flags during the conversation.
 

PiperAria

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I read 'elsewhere' that it's from a Nancy Grace podcast. The pizza part begins at about the 23 minute mark. It's a Spotify broadcast and I'm unable to jump ahead in the audio so I can't answer your question just now.

Thank you! This is what I was looking for, but listening again I can hear he says “her,” although to my auditory-processing-disorder brain it can sound like a combo of “her” and “they.”

edit: accidentally hit random emoji
 
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Laura456

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Question: Could the cops have put in a mutual restraining order based on what happened?

 

Laughing

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Question: Could the cops have put in a mutual restraining order based on what happened?


I don't believe we've picked up an attorney who practices in this state -- might not be available.

jmho ymmv lrr
 

WingsOverTX

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I don't believe we've picked up an attorney who practices in this state -- might not be available.

jmho ymmv lrr
Even if LE could have given them mutual ROs, would it have mattered? They were traveling in one vehicle, which served as their home (along with a tent). GP was not comfortable being alone out West. I don't think she wanted to involve her family in "rescuing" her although they would have gladly helped.

How are you going to separate them long enough for ROs to make any difference? From the video, separation was not a choice GP wanted & offered no advantage to BL either (from his standpoint).

These two people made choices that led to tragedy. A piece of paper does nothing in a situation where the behavior of both parties cannot be monitored....on to the next town and the next conflict that may escalate with new LE having no context with which to evaluate circumstances.

If they hadn't been traveling thousands of miles away from both of their families, maybe mutual RO's would have helped. But GP is seen by many of us as aggressive mainly because she was responding to aggression. Punishing her with an RO might have done more damage by confusing the reality of the situation. I certainly think so.

I also think there is a lot about their relationship we don't know and never will. Why? Because they both presented a front to the world. In all situations of abuse, facing and admitting the truth is the first step to change. GP was not there yet, IMO.

Not blaming the victim, just trying to look at the totality realistically.

What a tragic morality tale. This time last year, Gabby had about one week left to fulfill her dreams. That is sickening and a crying shame.

MOO
 
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NCWatcher

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Question: Could the cops have put in a mutual restraining order based on what happened?

It's interesting to know that there is such a thing as a mutual restraining order so thanks for the post.

There are, IMO, data points to support the likelihood there was mutual DV in G&B's relationship. I'm not talking about what statistics say in general about DV. Individual responsibility for a crime can't be determined based on population statistics or demographics/profiling (although it's sometimes unfairly assumed a man must be guilty because statistically men are more violent.) My view is based not on statistics but on what G&B actually said to LE when interviewed separately, what both witnesses said, the injuries noted, and Rose's description of a past incident where GP slapped BL first, then he shoved her. I personally have not seen persuasive evidence that either party was aggressive only in response to aggression but that could be true for either of them. But regardless of all of that, I don't think any kind of order would have ever been issued in this case (even if different officers had taken the call.)

For one, I don't think "cops" can order true restraining orders-- that requires court action or at least the action of a magistrate, not a police officer. Second, neither Gabby nor Brian said they were the victim of DV and neither would have wanted a restraining order. (I think that's pretty clear since they didn't even want to be separated for the night.) The article suggested a mutual order could be issued if A wants an order against B and has evidence of B's aggression, but B shows during a hearing that A is also an aggressor. That's not at all what was happening here. Neither one wanted the other kept away.

Of course, it's a tragedy GP was killed about 2 weeks after the incident. But I don't think the solution is to create more Draconian laws restricting consenting adults from engaging in mutually-desired interaction, even if the relationship is viewed as "bad" in some way by some people. NS described the Moab incident as an ordinary "argument" of the sort couples may have on long trips and that was after talking to GP about it. If the couple had been ordered to stay apart for more than a night in the middle of a dream trip sponsored and supported by their families, I expect there would have been outrage over that too.

Women who are murdered are more likely to be killed by someone known to them than are men (but not necessarily by a romantic partner or spouse.) In 2020, in the US only 5% of the homicide victims were female.

The Truth About Stranger Homicide, and Who's Really at Risk

To save even one woman's life, it would seem thousands of restraining orders would have to be forced on arguing couples. For couples living together, one person would have to quickly move out of the shared residence. For couples on car trips, one person would suddenly be left stranded. For couples employed at the same place, one person would have to quit his/her job, probably without notice. For couples with children, effective co-parenting would be impossible without any direct communication. So I don't think imposing restraining orders when neither partner wants an order is the solution. Plus, as women who have sought protective orders against violent spouses learn, in some cases those orders aren't actually very protective anyway.

If a mutual restraining order had been issued in this case, who would have reported G and/or B for breaking it? They were supposed to remain separated the night after the incident. We don't even know if they did that, do we?

JMO
 

Sillybilly

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ADMIN NOTE:

This thread is dedicated to discussion of Gabby's specific case and facts related directly to her case. It is NOT for the broader, overall discussion of domestic violence.

DV is a vast public / social justice issue that is not peculiar to this case. WS has hundreds, if not thousands, of cases that have involved domestic violence. If you wish to discuss the topic in general, I'm sure you'll find a thread you can contribute to. Just do a 'title' search using the word 'violence' and have a look around. You will find many WS threads and resources related to domestic violence in general.
 

GRT

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Even if LE could have given them mutual ROs, would it have mattered? They were traveling in one vehicle, which served as their home (along with a tent). GP was not comfortable being alone out West. I don't think she wanted to involve her family in "rescuing" her although they would have gladly helped.

How are you going to separate them long enough for ROs to make any difference? From the video, separation was not a choice GP wanted & offered no advantage to BL either (from his standpoint).

These two people made choices that led to tragedy. A piece of paper does nothing in a situation where the behavior of both parties cannot be monitored....on to the next town and the next conflict that may escalate with new LE having no context with which to evaluate circumstances.

If they hadn't been traveling thousands of miles away from both of their families, maybe mutual RO's would have helped. But GP is seen by many of us as aggressive mainly because she was responding to aggression. Punishing her with an RO might have done more damage by confusing the reality of the situation. I certainly think so.

I also think there is a lot about their relationship we don't know and never will. Why? Because they both presented a front to the world. In all situations of abuse, facing and admitting the truth is the first step to change. GP was not there yet, IMO.

Not blaming the victim, just trying to look at the totality realistically.

What a tragic morality tale. This time last year, Gabby had about one week left to fulfill her dreams. That is sickening and a crying shame.

MOO
This is the best analysis I've read so far concerning the Moab stop and the pending case.

The amount of time that lapsed between the Moab stop and Gabby's death leads me to think there was nothing the officers could do--short of arresting them both and locking them up for weeks (or longer) that could have prevented her death. Even then, it might only have postponed it.

Legally, I don't there were any additional steps the officers could have taken without setting themselves up for additional lawsuits.

Law enforcement's job is to step in when a crime has been committed and implement punitive, or restrictive procedures that fit the crime. The officers did an excellent job, in my opinion, and while we can all look back now and spot tiny "tells" in retrospect, we too would likely have missed them the first time around. Plus, Gabby's story matched Brian's and the officers weren't mind readers.

If those who are closest to a couple who are in a toxic relationship don't see warning signs, I don't think anyone else can be expected to do so.

Just the fact that they were separated for a few days when Brian flew home tells me that separation wasn't going to help.

I would, however, like to hear from his parents exactly why he flew home--because the official story of cleaning out the storage unit is kind of sketchy. But, at the same time, I feel as though the Laundries are just as much victims as the Petitos and I don't want to put any more undue stress on either family.









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