Found Deceased WY - Gabrielle ‘Gabby’ Petito, 22, Grand Teton National Park, 25 Aug 2021 #83

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txsleuth70

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Have their been any news discoveries, relevations, etc. since BL's remains were found?

It can be difficult to sort through and follow the way the timeline updates are organized.

Thanks for any quick update beyond his remains being found. Any statement from BL family at all since then?
 

Arkay

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Is it this specific topic of speculation that seems pointless to you?

What makes one topic more valuable than another? Why is this puzzle more interesting than that? I don’t know. This one caught my interest. If it doesn’t interest you, that’s cool.

For me, MOO, this is my response to your area of speculation. It is pointless now.

I like the way you explained why this question interests you---whether or not the FBI knew for a fact that she was dead before Gabby's remains were found.

I like puzzles as well, but from my POV, much of what we discussed in September is more or less irrelevant now. Was Gabby dead or alive? Was Brian dead or alive? Where was she? Where was he? If she was dead, was it homicide, accident, suicide? If he was dead, same questions, although IMO I delete homicide as a cause for him.

For me, at this point, the only riddles that remain are Brian's COD and particularly, WHY did he murder her. Also, what did the Ls know and when.

I was on the first 80+ threads here every day, but I'm not the kind who wants to still go over timelines and so on. Moab, Merry Piglets, hitchhiking---at this point I feel what's done is done as far as those situations go. Clearly the majority of us had speculated that Gabby was dead, based on all available evidence. If we thought so then I'm confident the FBI thought so, as well. The only way they would KNOW for a fact before her remains were discovered would be if BL told his parents and they in turn told the FBI. Or if SB knows and told the FBI.

Going forward, speaking only for myself and likely in the minority, I only want to know those things. It's been quite awhile and we haven't heard if Brian's notebooks and/or Brian's parents hold the answers as to why and when he killed her.

Otherwise at this point I'm more interested in the foundation her family has created, and if we ever find out why he killed her and when and how he died.

JUST MY OPINION
 

TL4S

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I’m not sure that I understand your question(s), but I shall try my best to answer.

Do you question the point of continuing to examine this case because it is, essentially, over?

GP has been found and she is deceased. Many people believe it was BL that murdered GP. BL has been found and he is deceased. There will be no trial for BL. So, for a lot of people this case is over.

My interest in this case is not over. Many sleuthers wish to solve the crime(s) and get justice for the victims. I want that as well, but those things are not my sole interest. All the puzzles in a crime, it’s investigation, and it’s ultimate resolution stoke my curiosity. I love puzzles, I love details, I love learning new things, I love the satisfaction of discovering something or figuring things out.

Do you question the point of speculation as a tool in puzzle solving?

I recognize that only facts will ultimately solve the puzzles in this case. But I/we don’t have all the facts, in fact we have very few. One thing that speculation offers me is a direction to search (or to quit searching) For example- I speculate that x is true. What facts would have to be in place to prove that x is true? Or false? If x is true, what follows? There’s more to it than that and it can be subtle. It’s difficult to describe, I hope you get the gist. If that is your question, and my answer is inadequate, ask again and I’ll try to answer again.

Do you question the point of soliciting the thoughts of others?

For me, that is what websleuths is all about. I can sit by myself, do research, and think, think, think. And I do. But sharing this process with others is a lot more productive (and fun). Others have knowledge of facts I might not. They have perspectives that are different than mine. They ask themselves different questions. Maybe they are just plain smarter than me.

Is it this specific topic of speculation that seems pointless to you?

What makes one topic more valuable than another? Why is this puzzle more interesting than that? I don’t know. This one caught my interest. If it doesn’t interest you, that’s cool.

Or are you asking, maybe, what I am hoping to hear?

That’s tough to answer. It’s kind of why I asked. I could offer you some scenarios of the type of things I would like to hear…
-that’s a ridiculous idea, and here are some facts why
-I disagree, it’s just my opinion but I think that because
-I totally agree, but it’s just a gut feeling, wish I could figure out why
-I totally agree, here are some facts I noticed to support it
-I’m not sure, but I noticed that a, b and c would make a lot more sense if this was true

Or do you feel the accuracy or inaccuracy of that statement is completely clear and not in question, and therefore speculation on the topic is pointless?

If that is where you are at, you are precisely the type of person that I would like comments from! Please break down your perspective for me.

If none of these are what you were asking, try me again.
For me, personally, any crime like this is a series of events that happen in a sequential order, one going down after another, like dominoes. Some people need to see things as an entire picture, from beginning to end, without missing pieces. This is my nature, as it seems to be yours. While us knowing these details doesn't change the outcome for those involved, it does give some perspective to human behavioral patterns. After all, understanding crime comes from studying past criminal behavior.

Knowing how the FBI knew what they knew, and when, might give insight to what decisions BL made along the way, which in turn might provide answers. Idk.
 

TL4S

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Something I hadn't heard a definitive answer to before, in regards to where BL's remains were found.

The search for answers: Gabby Petito and Brian Laundrie

“That area that he was ultimately found in was searched with airboats just weeks before so there was no way you were going to find this stuff prior to the water going down,” said Taylor.

And remember the cadaver dogs?

“They did hit on things throughout … I guess the scent can travel across the water,” said Taylor.
 

Keyedin

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Something I hadn't heard a definitive answer to before, in regards to where BL's remains were found.

The search for answers: Gabby Petito and Brian Laundrie

“That area that he was ultimately found in was searched with airboats just weeks before so there was no way you were going to find this stuff prior to the water going down,” said Taylor.

And remember the cadaver dogs?

“They did hit on things throughout … I guess the scent can travel across the water,” said Taylor.
I remember someone either sharing an unrelated article or maybe a related article about the scent traveling across water and potentially making it much harder for the dogs to pinpoint the exact location.

I didn’t know this until last night when I checked in on the Jason Landry thread, so other’s may not know either. There’s a thread here on WS that discusses missing persons who were located in areas that had previously been searched. I think it happens more than we realize.
 

LRinCA

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Brian Entin - Twitter

1/3 Many are asking for a Gabby Petito/Brian Laundrie case update. There isn't much - but here are a few nuggets. The FBI investigation is still open. North Port PD are not releasing reports/video we have requested because the FBI investigation is still open.

2/3 While the FBI says they identified Laundrie based on dental records -- the official autopsy/cause of death has not been released yet. The Federal bank fraud charge case he faces out of Wyoming (Use of Unauthorized Access Devices) is still open and active. I just checked.

3/3 I'm told once the autopsy is officially complete -- and a death certificate is issued -- Federal prosecutors would then file a motion in Wyoming to drop that case. That has not happened yet and it is still showing active.

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin/status/1461362397969457154
https://twitter.com/BrianEntin/status/1461362399458430985
https://twitter.com/BrianEntin/status/1461362399458430985
 

jjonez

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Is this what you are looking for?
Brian Laundrie timeline: Family attorney details days surrounding disappearance of Gabby Petito’s fiancé
Snipped
At the time, his parents told police they had last seen him leave home to go to the Carlton Reserve area for a hike on Tuesday, Sept. 14. Bertolino later said that, after further communication with the FBI, the Laundries believed their son actually left home to go hiking on Sept. 13.
—-
I think it was a tweet and was very early on As that post was from September 19 while the timeline was in the early stages
It is not. It was the specific wording “…he was last seen at the reserve by them…” that caught my attention. I know it was a long time ago. Thank you so much for trying
 

jjonez

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I was looking for the description of what BL was wearing. All I could find ( in last article, was he took his backpack) but I found all these articles to be interesting.
IMO, I think the parents played with the timeline 9/13-17/21 to give BL time ( to decide what to do, to take off??? Whatever) and to shield themselves from accusations of “aiding and abetting”.
If you read all these articles and SBs statements, it seems to me they knowingly misrepresented the date BL left the home. Moo
However, I can’t find article that clearly states the Ls SAW BL at the reserve.



1.

Police left the notice on Laundrie’s Mustang, which his family found Wednesday parked near the Carlton Reservein Sarasota County, according to attorney Steven Bertolino.


The note had asked for the car to be removed — but the family left the vehicle there until Thursday, hoping he’d return to it, Bertolino said.

Laundrie, 23, took off on a supposed hike of the 25,000-acre nature preserve on Tuesday and hasn’t been heard from again. His family reported him missing to cops on Friday




Note found on Brian Laundrie’s car after disappearance

2.
It's believed that Laundrie may have driven the Mustang when he allegedly went for a hike in a 25,000 acre nature reserve in the Sarasota area on Tuesday, the last time his family says they saw him.


Laundrie's parents reportedly told police they realized Brian hadn't come back from his hike "on Wednesday or Thursday," and that's when they went to pick up the Mustang and drove it back to their home.

When asked by local reporter Brian Entin if Laundrie's parents could be leading them in the wrong direction, police said they are "working to corroborate their story."

"They did not say 'we believe the parents or we know for sure that Brian was hiking in this reserve'," shared Entin.

Cops had previously left a note on the car, which requested it be removed, but the family left the vehicle there until Thursday, hoping Laundrie would return to it, Laundrie family attorney Steven Bertolino told the New York Post.





Brian Laundrie's parents 'took car home two days after he disappeared hiking'


3.
Laundrie's family told police on Friday that they last saw him on Tuesday with a backpack and he told them he was going to the massive preserve, which he would frequent for hikes, according to Taylor.




Gabby Petito case: FBI agents search Brian Laundrie's Florida home, seize his Mustang


4.
Steven Bertolino, the Laundrie family's attorney, told ABC7 that the family went looking for Laundrie on Wednesday and, despite not finding Laundrie, spotted the Ford Mustang he was driving with a police note on it.

Bertolino added that the note said the car needed to be removed from the area.


Laundrie's family left the car on Wednesday "so he could drive it back," Bertolino told ABC7.

When Laundrie didn't return, the family went back to the reserve to get the car on Thursday, Bertolino said.

On Friday, the family filed a missing persons report for Laundrie.


A police note was found on Brian Laundrie's car after he disappeared following a hike into a Florida nature preserve, his family says


5.
The warrant issued Thursday comes after almost a full week of police searching for Laundrie where his family says he was last seen: the Carlton Reserve in Sarasota County. According to police, Laundrie’s family says he drove his Ford Mustang there more than a week ago and has not been seen since.


https://wgntv.com/news/brian-laundr...sues-arrest-warrant-for-gabby-petitos-fiance/

6.
Here’s a good article, includes Twitter links to “live” activity NPPD and reporters from the time of BL going missing…


Timeline: Remains found at Myakkahatchee Creek Environmental Park identified as those of Brian Laundrie
Wow, this is an amazing resource. I was the bit that
the Ls saw BL at the reserve that caught my attention.
I will certainly check out all that you sent when I am able. I have found compilations of various reports on a single topic and timelines sorted by topic very useful to my analysis of the case at this late stage. Thank you
 

10ofRods

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Here’s a news report on SB announcement when the Ls changed their minds about when they last saw BL.

Brian Laundrie was last seen on.....

It's not clear whether they changed their minds, or whether their attorney misreported it. It's not clear if they weren't sure and simply chose a date. It wasn't an easy time for the Laundries. Gabby had not yet been find.

Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but no one knows someone is dead, until a dead person is found and identified. I wouldn't say that everyone waits until there's an autopsy or death certificate, that would be very odd. But family members, once they have ID'd the body, know for sure that their loved one was lost. I would also say that in 99.999% of such cases, LE knows before the family members do (in cases where they have called the family to come to the site). I'd also say that in a case like this one, whoever found the body (knowing Gabby was missing and where she was last seen)...they "knew" it was Gabby.

But without a body, there's always a tiny bit of doubt and different agencies and circumstances call for a different checklist regarding "proof of life/death."

Brian left before Gabby was discovered, but after she was officially reported missing. IMO, his parents worried that he was suicidal. I wonder if it was the first time (I would bet not). He's a grown man. They suspect the worst, but are hoping it isn't so, as nearly anyone would. They are totally in a state of not-knowing about Gabby at that point, and also, not knowing what their son has done or is about to do. They're talking to their lawyer throughout. I am not sure that, especially with COVID, I am not very good at remembering the day of the week. The lawyer may have taken a few days to analyze his cell phone records and figure out which call it was, when they first suspected, having already said the wrong thing.
 

jjonez

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No, my point in asking is, what point are YOU trying to make by suggesting that they knew she was deceased before they found her? Yes, they likely did believe that it was possible she was deceased. Her bf has her van and won't discuss anything, her parents had not had any contact with her. What are you speculating, that them knowing she was deceased before they found her, would change? How would their knowing, if they did, affect the situation?
Okay, apologies then.
I promise that I am not trying to be difficult, but I’m afraid I still don’t quite understand what you are getting at.

I was not trying to make a point at all. It was with intention that I did not offer my point of view in my original post. I was not seeking responses to my viewpoint. I was looking for fresh perspectives, completely without influence.

Certainly it was logical that the FBI suspected GP was deceased before they found her remains. And maybe, quite probably, there is nothing more to it. But I have found cause to wonder whether they had evidence, or were certain, beforehand. It is a puzzle of my own making, and I love a challenging puzzle.

I do not speculate that prior knowledge would change anything at all. GP is gone, nothing will change that.

If you are wondering about my own perspective, it is somewhat unformed at this stage, hence the request for speculation. I think there are some things that might make more sense if there were prior knowledge. I can give an example that I think may fit your last question, if I understand you correctly.

On 9/18 the FBI issued their only specific request for information (as opposed to their general request pertaining to GP, BL, or her van) it has since been repeated. They asked for information in a specific area, at and surrounding the spread creek dispersed camping area, from 8/27 to 8/30. There are myriad reasons that those dates might have been chosen.

But in my mind the time frame is too short.
I imagine that the FBI had enough evidence prior to 9/19 (when GP’s remains were found) to narrow the time that the van left SC to a fairly small window. They may even have known whether GP left with the van. If the van left SC without GP and there was still hope that she would be found alive, would the request not have been open ended, or at the very least extended? The dates make more sense if they knew they were only looking for remains (and evidence related to her death/BL’s actions).
Certainly, there are other possible explanations.

I have come across other things that would make more sense with prior knowledge. All can be ‘debunked’ with their own what if’s. Taken together tho, it makes me wonder.

In my original post I was just looking for a little inspiration, in one direction or the other.

I do hope some part of what I offered, answers some part of what you are asking. If not, feel free to try me again.

all moo.
 
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borndem

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I'm pretty sure that bay is brackish waters and gators don't live in brackish waters. MOO. Katt

Some info:
-------------------------------------------------------------
Do Florida alligators live in brackish water?

Alligators can be found in fresh and brackish bodies of water - including lakes, rivers, canals and golf course ponds - and there's an estimated 6.7 million acres of suitable habitat statewide.Jun 15, 2016

Things to know about Florida's alligators - CBS News
 

MollyDDD

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Have their been any news discoveries, relevations, etc. since BL's remains were found?

It can be difficult to sort through and follow the way the timeline updates are organized.

Thanks for any quick update beyond his remains being found. Any statement from BL family at all since then?
:p
 

Beans

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For me, personally, any crime like this is a series of events that happen in a sequential order, one going down after another, like dominoes. Some people need to see things as an entire picture, from beginning to end, without missing pieces. This is my nature, as it seems to be yours. While us knowing these details doesn't change the outcome for those involved, it does give some perspective to human behavioral patterns. After all, understanding crime comes from studying past criminal behavior.

Knowing how the FBI knew what they knew, and when, might give insight to what decisions BL made along the way, which in turn might provide answers. Idk.

This is an excellent post and I feel very seen. It goes straight to the heart of the reasons for my interest in this type of thing. Do I want to see cases resolved and closed with perpetrators brought to justice? Of course. But I also like to understand the motivations and the logistics and for that, detail is often necessary. I can’t pretend my interest is purely altruistic, or not in the sense that I only want to know that people are being held accountable for the bad things they do. A large part of my interest is about understanding the behaviour of fellow human beings.
 

TL4S

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This is an excellent post and I feel very seen. It goes straight to the heart of the reasons for my interest in this type of thing. Do I want to see cases resolved and closed with perpetrators brought to justice? Of course. But I also like to understand the motivations and the logistics and for that, detail is often necessary. I can’t pretend my interest is purely altruistic, or not in the sense that I only want to know that people are being held accountable for the bad things they do. A large part of my interest is about understanding the behaviour of fellow human beings.
My reasonings are the very same!
 

Beans

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My reasonings are the very same!

If I just wanted to know the beginning and end I’d stick to MSM. I like to understand the full B-Y in between the A-Z though.

Sometimes that curiosity about human nature plus individual and collective badass research skills and expertise actually helps too. I love that WS very much adopts a “first, do no harm” approach. This isn’t the place to come if you just want salacious gossip and nonsense. I’m a facts and detail person (and colossal geek) so it works for me. :)

This case is particularly interesting because of the HUGE social media element, and not just from the investigation but in relation to the victim and perp and building a narrative of their life together prior to GP’s murder. Modern investigation and modern legal defence behaviours too. And god yes, I want to know why BL did what he did.
 

10ofRods

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Okay, apologies then.
I promise that I am not trying to be difficult, but I’m afraid I still don’t quite understand what you are getting at.

I was not trying to make a point at all. It was with intention that I did not offer my point of view in my original post. I was not seeking responses to my viewpoint. I was looking for fresh perspectives, completely without influence.

Certainly it was logical that the FBI suspected GP was deceased before they found her remains. And maybe, quite probably, there is nothing more to it. But I have found cause to wonder whether they had evidence, or were certain, beforehand. It is a puzzle of my own making, and I love a challenging puzzle.

I do not speculate that prior knowledge would change anything at all. GP is gone, nothing will change that.

If you are wondering about my own perspective, it is somewhat unformed at this stage, hence the request for speculation. I think there are some things that might make more sense if there were prior knowledge. I can give an example that I think may fit your last question, if I understand you correctly.

On 9/18 the FBI issued their only specific request for information (as opposed to their general request pertaining to GP, BL, or her van) it has since been repeated. They asked for information in a specific area, at and surrounding the spread creek dispersed camping area, from 8/27 to 8/30. There are myriad reasons that those dates might have been chosen.

But in my mind the time frame is too short.
I imagine that the FBI had enough evidence prior to 9/19 (when GP’s remains were found) to narrow the time that the van left SC to a fairly small window. They may even have known whether GP left with the van. If the van left SC without GP and there was still hope that she would be found alive, would the request not have been open ended, or at the very least extended? The dates make more sense if they knew they were only looking for remains (and evidence related to her death/BL’s actions).
Certainly, there are other possible explanations.

I have come across other things that would make more sense with prior knowledge. All can be ‘debunked’ with their own what if’s. Taken together tho, it makes me wonder.

In my original post I was just looking for a little inspiration, in one direction or the other.

I do hope some part of what I offered, answers some part of what you are asking. If not, feel free to try me again.

all moo.

So you want us to speculate about what individual FBI personnel thought or knew, and what the agency as a whole might have suspected?

I have no idea. And anyone who says they have an idea about what the FBI thought, knew or suspected is just guessing. Is that what you wanted? Our guesses?

Several of us have responded, but I'm not sure what you want, beyond that.

I too like getting to the bottom of motivation, and have tried to post about the digital forensics - which, I think, are entirely speculative and best done on one's own.
 
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10ofRods

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If I just wanted to know the beginning and end I’d stick to MSM. I like to understand the full B-Y in between the A-Z though.

Sometimes that curiosity about human nature plus individual and collective badass research skills and expertise actually helps too. I love that WS very much adopts a “first, do no harm” approach. This isn’t the place to come if you just want salacious gossip and nonsense. I’m a facts and detail person (and colossal geek) so it works for me. :)

This case is particularly interesting because of the HUGE social media element, and not just from the investigation but in relation to the victim and perp and building a narrative of their life together prior to GP’s murder. Modern investigation and modern legal defence behaviours too. And god yes, I want to know why BL did what he did.

I have many theories (based in both academic research and on intuition) but I do not think I can submit them here.

To get to the "why" requires a different kind of discourse than websleuthing does, IMO.
 
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