Young Nigerian students gone missing and found in bodies of water in the UK?

Discussion in 'Crimes That Should Be In The News' started by icerink47, May 10, 2021.

  1. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

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    snipped

    I turned to google for a quick search and learned that suicide is illegal in Nigeria (or the attempt is). Nigeria also has a high rate of suicide (which might be a clue that making it illegal is clearly not a solution). These families of the UK victims are not in Nigeria, but are recent immigrants. It's entirely possible, imo, that the parents are reacting against suicide out it being so taboo in their culture and it is expected that Nigerian parents would reject the idea as impossible.

    I had a cousin die by suicide in USA in the 1970s. The story was he died "cleaning his gun" but he actually deliberately shot himself. It was hard for families to talk about suicide, but we have made changes over the decades and it's not as common as it once was to cover it up. Perhaps Nigerians still don't want to talk about the possibility of a family member dying by suicide.

    If someone is targeting Nigerians to kill them in/near water, that is very specific. I would think they would hone in on one particular type of water as a pond in one part of the country is quite different than a harbor in a different part. If this is one perp, it would be someone with familiarity of all types of water and locations, plus have a desire to kill Nigerians and the means to lure them. It's possible, but seems a bit of a stretch, tbh. However, I'm following the Delphi murders and suspect the killer might have killed other victims in other locations so maybe there is someone in UK doing something similar too.

    At first glance, it seems like a stretch to me, but if it proves true, it doesn't matter what naysayers think.

    jmo
     


  2. Angleterre

    Angleterre Verified Law Enforcement England

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    I strongly disagree about the systematic racism and I am not going to go into a whole heap of evidence why that’s my view suffice to say we will agree to disagree. I have investigated many suicides and the families always feel in the majority of cases that their relatives were not suicidal. Furthermore, I personally went through this with my mum . Prior to the event , most of those I have investigated have shown a good or improved level of mood and this is because they have generally made their decision and know it will soon be over . Fortunately for me, my mum was discovered by my twin sister who was at work as a nurse and got a feeling that my mum was in trouble so immediately left work without permission and found her close to death , but we were lucky that she survived and so I have been privy to details that we would not ordinarily find out . There have been a huge amount of university students in the U.K. who are white and have been found in bodies of water and so I personally don’t feel that because there have been 3 in a short time period, and they are Nigerian, that they are connected. Certainly in Richards case he took no belongings no phone no wallet etc which in itself firmly points towards suicide as he hadn’t been mentally well . I gleaned this information when another case of a W/m University Student went missing in this similar area . It is a known wooded area for suicide . Furthermore, due to the pandemic , so many people have suffered with their mental health and in particular there’s been a huge uptake in young adults mental health referrals but unfortunately the demand far outweighs the availability . I think that they could be looked at but I have faith that unless their is evidence to the contrary, these are individual incidents. Just because the U.K. is only 609 miles long and less than 300 miles wide , that’s still a huge area for 3 deaths. I would certainly make enquiries with the other force areas intelligence departments but on the whole , I would be realistic about the representation of numbers and ethnicity. ALL MOO
     
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  3. Angleterre

    Angleterre Verified Law Enforcement England

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    I strongly disagree about the systematic racism and I am not going to go into a whole heap of evidence why that’s my view suffice to say we will agree to disagree. I have investigated many suicides and the families always feel in the majority of cases that their relatives were not suicidal. Furthermore, I personally went through this with my mum . Prior to the event , most of those I have investigated have shown a good or improved level of mood and this is because they have generally made their decision and know it will soon be over . Fortunately for me, my mum was discovered by my twin sister who was at work as a nurse and got a feeling that my mum was in trouble so immediately left work without permission and found her close to death , but we were lucky that she survived and so I have been privy to details that we would not ordinarily find out . There have been a huge amount of university students in the U.K. who are white and have been found in bodies of water and so I personally don’t feel that because there have been 3 in a short time period, and they are Nigerian, that they are connected. Certainly in Richards case he took no belongings no phone no wallet etc which in itself firmly points towards suicide as he hadn’t been mentally well . I gleaned this information when another case of a W/m University Student went missing in this similar area . It is a known wooded area for suicide . Furthermore, due to the pandemic , so many people have suffered with their mental health and in particular there’s been a huge uptake in young adults mental health referrals but unfortunately the demand far outweighs the availability . I think that they could be looked at but I have faith that unless their is evidence to the contrary, these are individual incidents. Just because the U.K. is only 609 miles long and less than 300 miles wide , that’s still a huge area for 3 deaths. I would certainly make enquiries with the other force areas intelligence departments but on the whole , I would be realistic about the representation of numbers and ethnicity. ALL MOO
    agreed
     
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  4. icerink47

    icerink47 Member

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    First of all, it’s an unfair judgment to state that systemic racism is not at play here when Richard’s mum herself said that she was treated unfairly due to her accent and her nationality. They gaslit her into thinking she was overreacting and treated her so poorly she believed that if she had an English accent they would have taken her more seriously. Don’t forget how the Stephen Lawrence case got handled. It took 19 years for his murderers to face conviction for a racially motivated attack. Furthermore, the police officer who shot Mark Duggan - an un-armed black man - in 2011 still faces no consequences to this day, 10 years on.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8909439/Four-ex-police-officers-involved-Stephen-Lawrence-case-face-criminal-prosecution.html

    Please read more here about Evidence Joel’s statement :

    Mum of missing teenager says police told her 'if you can't find him how can we'

    Furthermore, as a verified member of UK law enforcement this feels like a biased opinion on what could be going on here. If you read the thread carefully you’ll notice that there have been other similar deaths dating back to 2019. I have examined the cases of white bodies found in water as well and found that almost all had either eye witnesses or left behind suicide notes, making it much clearer and less ambiguous to understand what happened to them. The cases we have focused our attention on are connected by several things, one of those being that their disappearances were mysterious and out of character. If their disappearances were mysterious how can their deaths not be at least investigated more thoroughly? Please see screenshots of articles:

    Screen Shot 2021-05-17 at 21.45.45.png

    Screen Shot 2021-05-17 at 21.46.13.png

    r.e.: Richard’s phone. If you look closely at the CCTV you will see a shiny object in his hand that he looks down on as he walks along Smarts Lane, which largely resembles a phone.

    Screen Shot 2021-05-10 at 17.19.52.png Screen Shot 2021-05-10 at 17.18.31.png

    To make it clear, there are several petitions going around urging law enforcement to investigate further, so this is the opinion of a fair amount of people.

    Lastly, I’ll leave some articles here regarding racism within UK law enforcement, demonstrating the frequency in which systemic racism occurs here.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/13/office-met-police-racist-macpherson-stephen-lawrence-inquiry-black-people

    "Disgusting" figures show 97% of police accused of racism face no action

    https://theconversation.com/we-spent-seven-years-observing-english-police-stop-and-search-heres-what-we-found-149563

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-police-racism-blm-floyd-home-affairs-a9570956.html

    Met police officer faces new hearing over death of mentally ill black man
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
  5. Sherlockhames

    Sherlockhames Well-Known Member

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    Is it not possible that Blessing Olusegun was the victim of a tragic accident? I looked into her disappearance and knowing a little about the area/contours of the beach/tides etc it looked likely to me that she may have tragically mis-read the danger inherent on that coast line and that while deciding to go for a paddle, was overcome by strong waves from an outgoing tide on a v steep shingle beach in the night darkness. It would account for all the reported facts (shoes and phone found nearly stowed together - intending to get them but didn’t want to get them wet), 300m away which was at the top of the beach - she was found c6.30am just after low tide. So was carried out on the outgoing tide as the water reached the flat area. Not sure there is even evidence of suicide - I wondered this to begin with, but could very much see how this was a case of accidental drowning/death by misadventure(?). (I don’t think she intended to swim - I think she may have slipped on the shingle and couldn’t regain a foothold... all MOO but from experience of those beaches abs looking at the slope on the beach and that fact she was last seen at the beach at high tide. Being non-local there is no reason for her to have realised quite how steep the beach would have been under the water).
     
  6. icerink47

    icerink47 Member

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    The points you have raised are very valid. This could definitely explain what happened to her. Whilst she does fit the profile, I have considered the fact that it could be an accident and her case doesn't have as strong a connection as Richard and Olisa, who both were at a woods before their passing. Equally, it's hard to discount it entirely due to factors like timings, her responses on the phone and the obvious that her death was not really talked about until the death of Sarah Everard. There is also CCTV footage available, unfortunately this is not currently being released by Sussex Police which to me is a bit odd. Overall it's a very unfortunate series of events and what you said is totally valid and entirely possible. I've seen a lot of people saying similar things to the points you mentioned so you are definitely not alone in your opinion. Regardless of what happened to her and the rest of these people their loved ones deserve a proper investigation and some answers, and whatever is at play here we need to make sure we prevent further deaths like these.
     
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  7. Distant Observer

    Distant Observer Active Member

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  8. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for starting this thread @icerink47, which I've only just come across and find very interesting.

    I have a few thoughts, some of which have been voiced already.

    1. I agree with @Angleterre that most families where a suicide takes place are very resistant to the idea of accepting that that is what has happened. I know many who have been through exactly the process of denial that Evidence Joel is currently engaged in. That doesn't necessarily mean she is wrong (I believed Richard's death to be foul play at the time and I still feel there are questions that haven't been satisfactorily answered), just that what she feels isn't necessarily a useful index of suspicion. (I am sorry for what you went through @Angleterre and thank you for sharing it.)

    2. I think there are extraordinary pressures on 16-25yos. I have children in the teens-to-twenties age bracket myself. This is a generation whose activity has been monitored, measured, compared against others' and recorded for posterity since the day they were born. Everything from their femur length in utero, via their developmental milestones, reading age, SATs scores, BMI, GCSEs and A levels has been used as a way for strangers to tell them how they should be feeling about themselves, and all of it is regarded as both terribly important and indelibly recorded for all time. There are no false starts or clean slates for this generation. And what isn't on their school file or in their GP record is all over social media. Every photo they ever looked crap in, every prank at school, every embarrassing incident, every cruel remark, betrayal by a friend, youthful romantic rejection - it all travels with them. I think it's very hard to be young nowadays. Added to that, the stakes are very high for them. They work incredibly hard, are reminded constantly of what a competitive world it is, know that the jobs market will be tough and that they will probably never be able to afford their own home, and, oh, that they are also responsible for saving the planet. All of this adds up to a heightened risk of suicide imo, especially for young men, who are three times more likely to die by suicide than young women. I haven't even started on lockdown, and how hard it's been to deal with all of this away from the daily support structures of friendship groups, how crap and isolating the university experience has been and how jobs, gap years and travel plans have all been trashed.

    3. Added to this, I think there are particular pressures on the children of immigrants. There are huge stresses involved in moving country. Perhaps you are escaping a difficult situation in your country of origin, perhaps you have had to downgrade your occupational status and standard of living, perhaps there are language barriers, perhaps you lack an extended support network. Often children are expected to bridge those gaps - act as interpreters, participate in cultural practices 'from home' however irrelevant they feel, and generally keep the flame alive in the sense of making their parents proud and the sacrifices worthwhile. There is often pressure to succeed in the professions or to do something lucrative. Not everyone's shoulders are broad enough for that much baggage.

    4. I think it's disingenuous to imagine racism and unconscious bias don't have a role in police investigations and media interest, but I also think it's more complex than that. Yes, Sarah Everard's disappearance generated more interest (even before the incendiary nature of the defendant in that case was known) than Blessing Olusegun's. But so did Richard Okorogheye's. It's undeniable that victims are not all treated equally. Race is one thing. Sex, class and attractiveness are three more. Then there are subtler features such as London vs provincial, urban vs rural, the relative experience and expertise of individual police forces and the specialist units involved, plus - and actually I think this is huge - the particular status of the news media cycle at the time of the disappearance of a live person or the discovery of a body. It makes a difference what day of the week it is, what month of the year it is, whether there's a huge story in the news already, whether there's a political scandal it might be good to be able to bury, etc.

    5. There may be a significance to bodies of water in these particular deaths that escapes me and I will think further and try to read a bit about that, but I think in general that bodies of water are implicated in a lot of deaths and disappearances, whether suicide, accident or foul play - so much so that mentioning water has long since been the stock-in-trade of fake psychics. (As opposed to real ones...lol)

    All of this said, there is a pattern here that merits closer attention imo. It may be that on closer inspection, taking all UK deaths and disappearances into account, some or all features of the pattern disappear. Or it may be that what the pattern reveals is more of sociological interest than forensic.

    I think there are probably two approaches: one would be to acquire a significant quantity of data about (a) UK unnatural deaths in this age group, (b) UK unnatural deaths of British-Nigerians of all age groups and (c) UK deaths involving bodies of water. Then do some number crunching to see what's statistically significant and what's not, and see what's left. The other, of course, is to look at each of these cases more closely and map the finer details of each on to the others to see if you have an accumulation of data points of one or two particular sorts that are also significant compared with the population/peer group at large. Ideally you would look at it from both angles.

    I followed Richard Okorogheye's case closely and am pretty familiar with it already, and Olisa Odukwe's somewhat. By a bizarre twist of happenstance, I know someone who is an acknowledged expert on the tides in the Bexhill area, so I'm curious to take a look at Blessing Olusegun's death and see what presents itself. Depending on what I find, I will come and report back.

    JMO
     
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  9. Angleterre

    Angleterre Verified Law Enforcement England

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    Very interesting, comprehensive and well reasoned post . You bring some excellent observations and actual actions that can be looked at too. I wholeheartedly agree about the press and what is that days current agenda. The problem is that I don’t think that these statistics are being collated across the country by the likes of National intelligence depts at the Police College at Bramshill who would usually do so. I may be wrong . It perhaps needs an order to be sent out asking all Police Forces in England and Wales to collate such deaths and give specific criteria to be fulfilled. And only then can a forensic analyst look at these in depth for any patterns etc
    Because we have 43 Police Forces in England and Wales, there are 43 different approaches because we do not have a National Police force with the same policies and procedures across the land .
    You raise some interesting points and I thank you for your time spent reasoning this out .
     
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  10. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @Angleterre.

    This has the character of a mission, really! I'm wondering what @icerink47's situation is and whether s/he would be in a position to try and run some of this data down. Sometimes university departments can be helpful: perhaps there's a sociology or criminology postdoc out there with a special interest in this phenomenon. Or a charity or pressure group. I'm thinking for example of the Count Every Woman initiative, which has a stupendous amount of data regarding DV-related deaths. Perhaps there's someone similar out there collating the statistics we need. When I get a minute :rolleyes: I'll see what I can find out.

    My personal feeling is that once you start to look at the numbers of deaths in water of white youngsters that are designated suicides, or the number of suicides of Nigerian-British people who are older or use other methods etc, the apparent coincidences here will begin to look less significant, but we won't know unless we can find something at least approximating that contextual data.

    JMO
     
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  11. icerink47

    icerink47 Member

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    Hi thanks for responding to the thread. We are not associated with any law enforcement agency and therefore only have access to limited resources. We would be happy to offer our input if we could view the data but there is little public research on this as it stands. The position we have always maintained on the matter is that there needs to be more a thorough investigation into these deaths which may provide their loved ones with some solace. Even if it gets concluded to be suicide or accident - the least their families deserve is concrete evidence about what happened to them.

    If anyone has any useful data they would like to shed light on that would be really helpful.
     
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  12. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @icerink47.

    By a weird coincidence, I was invited to something today that includes a presentation about racial bias in resource allocation for missing persons enquiries, so I will follow up the speaker and see what kind of data they might have access to.

    May I ask who 'we' is? I don't want to breach anyone's privacy though. :)
     
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  13. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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  14. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that's the one @dotr.

    Just to add @icerink47 that almost no one here is affiliated to a law enforcement agency, and pretty much everyone has limited resources, but very often all that is needed is a bit of googling to find the right person and five minutes to send them an email, or twenty to chat on the phone. People with specialist areas of interest are almost always happy to share their expertise. So let's see what we can do. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
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  15. icerink47

    icerink47 Member

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    Hey,

    Did you find out anything of interest at the presentation you went to? Would be interesting to see what the ratio of resource allocation for poc's is in comparison to a case like Madeline McCann where there has been years of money and resources being pumped into it.

    In terms of who we are, we're psychology graduates who have an interest in social justice and crime, and a lot of spare time over covid :)
     
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  16. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy Well-Known Member

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    Not yet, the conference isn't until July but I will try and contact the speaker separately once I know exactly what stats would be useful.

    I suspect that resource allocation in missing persons cases is extremely complex because the correlation between resources and results can be perverse - because so many of them resolve themselves without much or any input, and those that don't tend to be refractory to yielding results no matter what's thrown at them, as the McCann case seemed to demonstrate until quite recently and the Ben Needham case continues to do. Madeleine McCann's case is hardly representative of the average missing persons case, though, so I'm not sure it's the best starting point for discussion.

    I will come back to the thread once I have some hard data, though. :)
     
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