Your theory (other than intruder please!)

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by VespaElf, Jun 10, 2004.

  1. VespaElf

    VespaElf Little Miss Showcase(runner-up)

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    Ok........I know everyone on here has logged extensive time rehashing the known information and disscussing theories but Im new here (and excited to talk to others still interested in the case!) and am wondering if youd share your definitive theory on what YOU think happened if you dont mindgoing over it for the umpteenth time!


    Im interested in everything ........John did it,Patsy did it, John and Patsy did it,Burke did it,JAR did it,Granpa Paugh did it and even hearing about Brother Moons POMJB connection (I still havent sorted that out yet!)..............ANYTHING but Fleet White or the Intruder theory(sorry MaiKai but Im just not buying it!).


    I myself dont have an actual theory just that one or more of the Ramseys did it and/are covering up for it..........the actuals Im just not sure of so Im interested in reading everyones opinions.


    Thank you in advance for sharing!!!!!!!
     
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  3. why_nutt

    why_nutt New Member

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    In my constitutionally-protected opinion, I believe Patsy is likely the guilty party. It has been difficult to summarize why, but I think I have finally distilled my theory to its essence.

    In my opinion, Patsy killed JonBenet as an act of premeditation, to force John to stop worshipping his dead daughter Beth, and to force John to pay more attention to his own wife in her role as a grieving mother. On both of these fronts, success was achieved. John no longer worships Beth, and pays much more attention to Patsy than he was doing in the months leading up to JonBenet's murder. This would be why Patsy would have no motive to confess, ever.

    Beth was killed on January 8th, 1992. January 8th is not a special day or particularly memorable for any other reason than Beth dying then. On the other hand, JonBenet was killed on Christmas. If you wanted to create a death which was memorable, you could do no better than to kill someone on a holiday whose date is always known. This would serve a Patsy-did-it theory of wanting to take away from the impact of Beth's death by making JonBenet's so much worse, and by having the murder take place on Patsy's favorite holiday, making her appear even more of a victim and therefore more in need of John's care and concern.
     
  4. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    I'll try to make this as compact as possible.

    There are many Patsy did it theories, and many of them make a lot of sense and are very feasible

    There are many John did it theories, and many of them make a lot of sense and are very feasible.

    There are many Burke did it theories, and many of them make a lot of sense and are very feasible.

    I personally wonder about Grandpa Paugh, but have no real "theory" to establish as information regarding him has been a well kept secret, but he is on my personal list of "possibilities"

    Now, the most feasible reason for me that the Ramsey family knows damn well what happened that night and by whom is:

    THE ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE! My personal feelings about this case is that the absence of real "intruder" evidence is a wealth of evidence leading right back to the Ramseys. Forensic specialists will tell you that the absence of evidence sometimes tells more of a story than overt evidence.

    In this case, all "evidence" claimed to support intruder theories is speculative:

    1. Stun gun: First of all, never proven. Second of all, IF a stun gun was used, it no more exonerates the Ramseys than any other suspect.
    2. DNA: Also, speculative. It supposedly exonerates the Ramseys, but yet, suspects whose DNA doesn't match are still considered suspects. No, I can't explain that.
    3. Duct tape, cord: This is a red herring that has been tossed around for years. It hasn't been found. Why and how that exonerates the Ramseys is beyond me.
    4. The Ransom Note: Patsy wrote the note, and nobody else has even been suspected as being the author other than Patsy, at least publicly.
    5. Window, etc: Nobody came in through that window, and there was NO disturbance by the window well.
    6. Suitcase by the window: It just happened to contain a Dr. Seuss book with JAR's semen on a blanket, also inside the suitcase.
    7. No footprints outside of the Ramsey house.
    8. Palm print and footprint: Both have been identified as Ramsey
    9. Hair: Reportedly shown to be an underarm hair from Patsy (I think, not positive about the underarm part)
    10. Fibers: Found to be consistent with Patsy and no other fibers of unknown origin found.

    There is plenty more to the list, but there is not one shred of intruder evidence that hasn't been disputed by LE, not just us forum, beer can collecting people with no life and to be pitied.

    All the intruder evidence thus far is purely speculation.

    Again, the ABSENCE of evidence tells me the real story.

    Hope this was somewhat helpful
     
  5. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator

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    OMG Why Nut. I never, ever, thought of that.

    I believe that Patsy is a hard core narcissist. Capable of almost anything to keep herself in the spotlight.

    Your theory has stopped me in my tracks.
     
  6. Nedthan Johns

    Nedthan Johns New Member

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    such a rehash but oh so fun. I need to confirm one fact, where JB's feet dusty from the basement floor? Was this confirmed as a fact or rumor?
     
  7. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator

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    Right Barbara. That is it in a nutshell.

    Trying to figure out what happened, who did what to whom, that is the tough part.
     
  8. Britt

    Britt New Member

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    IMO it's one of the following:

    1.
    Killer: Patsy
    Premeditated
    Abuser: Patsy
    Motive: Munchausen By Proxy-ish or psychotic-ish
    e.g. see Why_nutt's and BrotherMoon's theories

    2.
    Killer: Patsy
    Premeditated
    Abuser: John or Pa Paugh
    Motive: to prevent the incest secret from ever being revealed
    e.g. see Purgatory poster Ayelean's theory

    3.
    Killers: Patsy or Patsy and John
    Unintended near-death followed by murder
    Abuser: John
    Motive: duh

    4.
    Killers: Patsy and John
    Premeditated
    Abuser: John
    Motive: a twist on Munchausen By Proxy--for attention, notoriety and a career in politics

    Who DIDN'T do it: Burke and the Intruder.
     
  9. why_nutt

    why_nutt New Member

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    If you want what I believe to be further confirmation of this theory, that JonBenet's death was meant to trump Beth's, look at this little collection of facts:

    Before JonBenet was killed, John did indeed worship Beth. He kept her flight wings. He kept her pictures in his bathroom (I have never heard anything to the contrary that he refrained from keeping pictures of his other children or his wife there). He kept her car. He kept her bed (it was one of the ones in JonBenet's room). He named his favorite airplane after her.

    But now? I was looking over the list of items taken in the Atlanta robbery John reported. You will never guess what caught my eye.

    Beth's gold sorority ring was taken, a ring she wore on her own person, one more tenuous contact between John and his beloved daughter, stolen by an intruder.

    And John has not bothered to call attention to how much he hates the intruder for having taken this most precious of sentimental items, something which is truly irreplaceable. Instead, it is given no more value than his flight bag and his credit cards.

    As you can see, in my theory, Patsy has truly won. Beth is no longer worshipped. Instead, she now has as much place in John's past as the woman he had the affair with does. It is JonBenet, through her tragic murder, who is the more important daughter now, JonBenet, the daughter of John and the ever-grieving Patsy, to whom attention must be paid.
     
  10. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    :clap:

    As always, Why_Nutt, awesome and brilliant posts!
     
  11. Shawna

    Shawna Inactive

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    The Killer: Patsy Ramsey :furious:

    Abuser: Patsy Ramsey

    Sexual Abuser of Jonbenet: Patsy Ramsey/Mother Daughter Incest

    "Mother-daughter sexual abuse is not about homosexuality. In fact, the vast majority of abusers are married and heterosexual. This form of abuse is about a mother’s distorted views about herself and her daughter. The mother may be a survivor of abuse and act out her own experiences with her daughter. The mother may find it unbearable to see any part of herself in her daughter, and displace her own anger and shame over her sexuality onto her daughter. The mother often wishes to dominate and control her daughter, while also seeking emotional support from her, sometimes resulting in a reversal of roles".

    http://mdsa-online.org/

    Motive For Murder: Patsy was extremely jealous of Jonbenet's accomplishments and good looks. Jonbenet was more of a daddy's girl which made Patsy furious.

    What does Parkersburg WV and the University Of West Virginia have to say about Patsy Ramsey? Well, she slept her way through school, told aspiring beauty queens not to jog because "jogging, for a woman, makes everything drop. LOL :D

    http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=pa...ie=UTF-8&selm=35440BE4.EA4@hotmail.com&rnum=7
     
  12. jubie

    jubie Former Member

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    Why Nutt,

    Very interesting... how does the sexual abuse factor into your theory


    Thanks
    Jubie
     
  13. Arielle

    Arielle New Member

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    Okay, I'll give it a shot.

    If I beleive a Ramsey did it, I would have to say John Andrew. I'm not sure about motive, but I beleive it was premeditated and he even approached someone else in Michigan the previous summer to to try to have her killed in an "accident". The neighbor across the street, Barnhill, originally stated he saw John Andrew approaching the house on Christmas day, which places John Andrew at the scene of the crime.

    I think that the sexual abuse is a red herring. I don't think that there was any, other than the aspects of the murder itself. I think that John Andrew intentionally placed suspicion on Patsy because he didn't like her either. At one point he even cast suspicion on her verbally when asked about her. His response to what should happen to the killer was that the killer should be forgiven.

    I think that John knows that John Andrew is the murderer and discovered this during the Atlanta funeral trip and at this point started covering up for his older son. Perhaps he feels to blame for whatever caused John Andrew to do it.

    Based on the timeline developed long ago by MJenn and TLynn, there was plenty of time for him to do the deed and get back to Atlanta by morning for his flight to Michigan, ATM photo and all.

    All of this is purely my opinion based on my readings of the available books and information found on this and other forums.
     
  14. BrotherMoon

    BrotherMoon Former Member

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    Patsy killed JonBenet as one part of a long process known as a psychotic fantasy that started well before 12-25-'96 and continues to this day.

    The common thread that ties Patsy with the crime is literature.

    To make a long psychological story short: in classic narcissistic fashion, Patsy subsumed JonBenet's identity and she became an object through which Patsy attempted ro resolve her inner conflicts. Ultimately, the object was used as a factor in a percieved relationship with a super natural being. That relationship was an adult compensation for a childhood lack of recognition and identity development.

    Most crudely put, Patsy made an angel. This is typical of psychotic thinking, a destructive act is seen as a creative act.
     
  15. Shylock

    Shylock Former Member

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    OK, I'll be the first to weigh-in with a Burke Did It theory.

    Burke was molesting JonBenet by playing a simple game of "Doctor" with her--something he had done in the past as indicated by the experts who saw signs of "chronic" sexual abuse.

    Only this time Burke went too far and hurt her. She started to bleed and cry out for Patsy. Burke panicked and hit her as hard as he could over the head with the Maglite flashlight, which would later be found to match the hole in her skull. JonBenet began to convulse violently from the head concussion and died within 3-minutes. People who die from convulsions literally suffocate to death as they are unable to gasp for air. The petechial hemorrhages later misinterpreted by the coroner (and others) as being from the ligature strangulation was actually caused by the convulsive suffocation.

    John and Patsy almost immediately discovered what happened and they didn't know what to do. They didn't know if Burke could be arrested, and if so, they didn't know what he would be charged with. A panicked Patsy tried looking up the word "incest" in the dictionary, but it told her nothing about the law. John decided he had to take matters into his own hands and protect his youngest child. "Now I've lost a second daughter", he said to Patsy, "and I will NOT lose a son because of this!".

    The Ramseys knew two things had to be accomplished: The crime had to be pointed outside the house, and Burke had to be convinced he was not responsible for his sister's death. A ransom note would point the crime elsewhere, but a different method of death would be required to prove to Burke someone else (not him) was responsible for her death.

    John took her body into the basement and decided a cord around her neck would be the "new" method of death. He tried to pull the cord tight but his efforts failed because it was nylon and it slipped in his hands. All he did was create a few marks that Dr. Spitz would later see as evidence of a prior strangulation. John needed some leverage, so he broke off one of Patsy's paint brushes and tied it onto the cord. He was able to yank the cord extremely tight using the stick, causing post-mortem bruising under the cord. Because she was already dead, the cord did no damage to the organs in her neck as the autopsy would later reveal.

    To complete the staging of the body, John tied more cord around her wrists and applied a piece of duct take from Patsy's paint tote to her mouth. Then in an effort to make the molestation look "less childlike", he inserted the broken-off end of the paintbrush into her, trying to cause more bleeding. Because she was dead the effort failed, but it did leave a sliver of the wooden brush inside her.

    Returning upstairs, John joined Patsy in the authoring of the ransom note that would point the crime outside the house. It was John's idea to use his bonus amount as the ransom demand to make it look like an "inside job".

    The rest is pretty easy to figure out from there........
     
  16. Nedthan Johns

    Nedthan Johns New Member

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    Such a re-hash you got to love it:

    Boy 8 years of discussing what we know as evidence. My conclusion? (This is going to be long LOL:

    1.) The Ramsey’s returned home from the White’s house on the evening of the 25th. JonBenet was still awake and helped carry in gifts just like Burke remembers. Both the kids get dressed for bed and I believe it was JB that put on the oversized panties, (I will tell you why later) wanting to wear her new shirt to bed, she just changed into long johns. Most likely at the request of Patsy because of the cold night.

    2.) Patsy was in and out of the basement, gathering suitcases, and wrapping gifts. JonBenet most likely accompanied her on some of those trips to the basement which resulted in JB’s dusty feet.

    3.) At some point either Patsy or Burke served JonBenet some pineapple. – I think Burke most likely did, because at this point in time, I believe Patsy was too busy trying to arrange things at the last minute for the trip the next morning. –Could be another reason the Ramsey’s didn’t remember JonBenet having any. As Patsy states – “This isn’t my set up, large spoon in bowl”. This is something a kid would do. By the way I don’t think Burke was ever questioned about the pineapple, because I believe this wasn’t a known fact until long after Burke’s interview with police. Burke IMO holds the KEY to the pineapple, because JB’s prints weren’t found on the bowl. Wonder if the large spoon was ever finger printed? Bet not.

    4.) Burke assembled his model plane with his dad, and my thoughts are that Patsy may have decided at this point with JonBenet’s upcoming pageant to dye JB’s hair. This also explains the gloves. Because I don’t think a panicked parent would remember plastic gloves to use as a cover up unless they were already out. The gloves are important to this case because if an intruder used them, then that suggests planning on his part, yet he forgot to write the ransom note ahead of time. And why would any intruder bring 2 sets of gloves? One winter set and one plastic set? Doesn’t make any sense. You can’t have the killer thinking logical and then illogical. The fact that Patsy admitted to dying JB’s hair ties in the fact that these sort of gloves were accessible to her. I would wonder if any hair dye was removed from the house and the befringement material found on JB was matched to other gloves packaged in the same hair dye kits? Bet not. I wonder if investigators ever noted MISSING gloves from the hair dying kit? The key to this clue would be any photos taken at the White’s house that evening, or their testimony of how JB wore her hair, which is why the White’s would be the number one people I would question besides the Ramsey’s. I don’t believe the way JB was found with the hair ties in her hair was the way she dressed at the White’s. This is CRUCIAL since the Ramsey’s said they put JonBenet to bed immediately when they arrived home. Since the hair wasn’t dyed that we know of, what reason was there to re-do JB’s hair with hair ties, unless of course Patsy was using them in the process of dying her hair, which I have been told is done by sectioning the hair. With what we know from the Ramsey’s and all the photos of JonBenet, have we ever seen one where she doesn’t match? Do BLUE hair ties match black pants and a white sequined star shirt, if that is even what she wore to the Whites? The reason I came to this conclusion is because I believe the fracture to JB’s head came directly from a hard flat surface, and in my opinion that surface would be the bathtub or hard fixture in the bathroom. It also would be the reason for the nail mark to JB’s leg from Patsy grabbing her while trying to do her hair or getting her ready to dye her hair. I don’t believe she was bathed because JonBenet had dusty feet when she was found. Dying a 6 year old’s hair under stress with little time, would be my most likely scenario for why Patsy blew up. JonBenet wasn’t behaving and WHACK, Patsy lost it before she even got the change to dye her hair. I don’t buy the bed wetting theory, because the crime scene photos tell me the bed was not remade, and JB’s full bladder emptied at the time of her death consistent with urine stains to the front and thighs.

    5.) Burke at this point was most likely already in bed. I believe JonBenet was first cracked in the skull and BELIEVED to have been dead sometime between 11:00pm-12am. Which is why the Ramsey’s consciously chose to use the December 25th date on her tombstone. The head blow came first but I don’t believe Patsy told John immediately what she had done. I believe John most likely retired to bed as he states before the incident ever happened. I believe Patsy also thought at this point she had already killed JonBenet, and therefore began the cover-up. With a blow to the head that severe, JonBenet was most certainly unconscious and unresponsive. I don’t believe that the head blow and strangulation came simultaneously. For that scenario to have worked JB would have already have been in the basement. I believe it wasn’t until after Patsy cracked JB in the skull that she panicked and decided to move JonBenet to the basement and at one point placed her in the suitcase, with the intent of removing her from the house. I believe this would be a natural person’s reaction to cover up a crime. To get the body OUT of the house. I don’t know how long JB was in the suitcase but long enough to produce marks to her face and back, which is why there are only one set of marks to the side of the face and one to the arch of the back, which coincides with a child curled up in a suitcase face pressed against a SNAP and back against a HINGE or RIBBET from the suitcase itself. Even one expert observed the marks looked like they were from a SNAP. JB was most likely hidden in that suitcase while Patsy thought about what to do and took the time to construct the long rambling ransom note. It also explains the swelling in JB’ skull and the lack of blood in her cranial cavity. It explains why there would be NO livididy to the side of JB’s body because JB was STILL ALIVE at this point.

    6.) The black tape and rope were purchased by Patsy a month prior to the crime, but were purchased for her paintings, most likely kept in the paint tote, with her paint brushes, which explains why all 3 items were used. So I have come to the most likely conclusion that this was NOT a premeditated murder. Patsy liked JonBenet around, because JonBenet set Patsy off. She was her trophy. JonBenet brought ATTENTION to Patsy. However with Patsy’s psychotic behavior and the stress of the holiday’s and trip to Michigan, cruise and pageant coming up, Patsy snapped. I think Patsy did ALL of the staging, because NO man with common sense would have placed a small piece of tape over the child’s mouth. He can’t be THAT stupid. This was done by a woman. Had John been involved at this point, he would have known that this looked FAKE. Also the fact that the rope was cut by using Burke Ramsey’s pocketknife that ONLY Patsy and Linda knew where it was hidden, tells me that Patsy was the one that cut and tied that garrote. Because it’s hard for me to believe that one parent cut the rope and the other tied the device. You wouldn’t be taking turns during a situation like this. I came to this conclusion after much thought, and years of contemplating. But Patsy had to tie in her scenario she used in the note “Foreign Faction” to the body. By constructing the device it ADDS to the believability that a Foreign Faction was involved in Patsy’s mind.

    To be continued....
     
  17. Nedthan Johns

    Nedthan Johns New Member

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    7.) Before the cover up began Patsy shut off the lights in the home and the outside light so none of the neighbors knew she was awake. She uses the gloves from the dying kit and grabs the mag flashlight (the one JAR bought, but they never found after the crime LOL) to find her away around the dark house. This explains the neighbors seeing an odd light in the Ramsey kitchen sometime around 12:30am. With the light snowfall Patsy realizes there is NO way to remove JonBenet from the home so devises the kidnapper theory, ransom note and all. I believe Patsy Ramsey was the one to ultimately murder JB. Taking her out of the suitcase near the boiler room, she simulated a rape by using the end of the paintbrush, and then tied the garrote around her neck and strangling her from behind, using her foot for pressure. She may have tried twice which is why there are 2 marks to JB’s neck one lower and then the rope riding up higher as it was pulled. This was NOT used as some sex act; otherwise the rope marks would have NOT ridden up on JB’s neck. Had John done the final act of garroting JB, JB’s thyroid bone would have broke. A man is much stronger and would not have needed leverage for this. This is when Patsy screams, and the scream is heard by Melodie Stanton around 2:00-2:30 am. This is when I believe JB really died. Patsy either screamed because she realized that JB was still alive or for the fact that she had to strangle her to make her scenario believable to save her self. I am thinking both. Either way I believe the scream was from Patsy Ramsey and NOT JonBenet. Patsy hides the body in the windowless room to keep Burke from discovering it. This is when John wakes up and becomes involved in this crime or shortly before the 911 call. It may have been Patsy coming up from the basement. Either way an argument broke out which is why Burke claims he heard yelling during the night and John slips during an interview when he said he saw Patsy come up from the basement. I believe that JB was NOT redressed. Had she have been her underpants would not have been urine soaked and neither would her long johns, which tells me that she could have NOT have possibly been redressed AFTER she was strangled. The urine stains to her panties and long johns prove this. I DO believe she was wiped down to remove any trace evidence. I believe the mysterious blue fibers are from John Ramsey’s golf club covers and I believe everything used in the cover up of this crime was HIDDEN in that golf bag which is why John Ramsey asked Pam to retrieve it in the middle of winter only a few days after the murder. I also believe that there was similar rope used to transport Patsy’s art work, which is why she also requested specific paintings to be removed by Pam Paugh. I mean really who thinks of this sort of stuff afer a situation like this?

    8.) I believe John CLEARLY tells us when he found the body. He told Stewart it was at 1:00pm then stated he was again confused on this time, yet that time corresponds exactly when John Ramsey went missing for an hour. I believe this is when he wiped down the body to ensure Patsy left no evidence behind and is when John Ramsey left his own shirt fibers on JB’s crouch area. John may have been the one to cover JB with the white blanket which was retrieved from the dryer and her Barbie PJ’s, were most likely static clinged to the blanket or rigor mortis had set in making it difficult if not impossible to change JB earlier if Patsy had tried. The papoose style blanket may suggest John was the one to cover her. I have done this to my own kids, and seems to me something a DAD would do. Or perhaps remorse on the behalf of Patsy.

    9.) Why do I think John chose to help Patsy cover? And why do I think he became involved BEFORE police arrived? Because his prints along with Patsy’s were not on the note, the paper was crisp and clean with NO creases. Hard to believe a parent wouldn’t have tore through those pages reading them over and over again trying to find clues to the whereabouts of their daughter. Hard to believe that NOT ONE print from either parent wouldn’t show up, shower or no shower. Proves to me John was INVOLVED. Why did he cover for her? Several reasons but I think the most likely one is STATUS and SELF PRESERVATION of the family. John is all about STATUS, which is apparent with his now public run for office. This is a man that cares MORE about what people PRECEIVE about HIM then how he cares for his own child.

    10.) I also agree with the experts that JonBenet’s vaginal opening was 5 times the size of a normal child her age, and that the findings were more consistent with CHRONIC sexual abuse prior to that night. However I don’t entirely accept the theory that John Ramsey was molesting his daughter. I do however believe Patsy Ramsey was very likely the abuser using corporal punishment on JB for bed-wetting. I think John Ramsey knew about this and he was preserving his family name, he didn’t want to lose Patsy. He stood to loose everything now.

    11.) They both publicly stated, they just wanted to ‘GO ON WITH OUR LIVES. How does any NORMAL parent go on if they really had a child sexually molested and murdered by an intruder in their OWN basement? How do you explain the Ramsey’s complete LACK of safety when they move clear across the country to once again leave their doors unlocked and alarm system off? Do these sound like frightened parents to you?

    12.) The 911 call also proves that John made Pasty make the call. NO reasonable man in this situation would not have handled the situation. Especially a CEO and President of his own Corporation. Patsy gave NO specifics to the 911 operator, yet CLEARLY it states in the note NOT to call police or their daughter DIES! Huge mistake on the Ramsey’s part that they failed even to follow their OWN instructions! But makes me believe that if John was in on the ransom note he would have been smart enough to at least follow what it said. The Ramsey’s HAD to appear on Dateline to address this very subject. John stated, “I handled the note, the detectives handled the note, and Patsy handled the note”. He knew it was simply RIDICULOUS to imagine neither parent touched that note. Yet gave no reason as to why the investigators prints were on the note yet neither his nor Patsy’s were. He said he read the note but wasn’t thinking clearly. The man was up and already showered, yet he was thinking clearly? He was sure thinking clear enough to call every friend he knew in town to come over. John was in full control, and he KNEW he had to contaminate that crime scene, with as many people as he could. He got Burke Ramsey out of that house ASAP. Which is why Burke faked being asleep because he got yelled at when he came out during the 911 call. John was NOW in control of this situation. I think he is the one that staged the suitcase and broke the window. I think he unstaged it when he realized that the police weren’t buying it. As time passes and JonBenet hadn’t been found by our Keystone cops, John realized that the FBI would be called in. He headed down to that basement with Fleet and went straight for that room. Fleet’s powerful testimony that John screamed, “I found her” before the light even hit the room, tells me that John had long before already discovered the body. Plus how did he really know it was JB if she was covered with a blanket?

    13.) John’s next plan was to get his family out of the house ASAP, and thanks to the BPD he accomplished that. Once they left that house, he knew they were home free because he immediately layered his whole family up. Now here we are 8 years later, and instead of loving parents continuing to search for the killer of their beautiful daughter, we have a family that STILL refuses to sit down with investigators, and failed to come through with their promises to catch this killer. Instead we have a man more concerned with helping citizens of Michigan find jobs then searching for the TRUTH regarding his own daughter’s murder.

    That folks is what I believe happened on Christmas night 8 years ago. It’s more years then the child herself lived, so why would any parents still be concerned about what happened to her?
     
  18. Nedthan Johns

    Nedthan Johns New Member

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    Shylock: I know it’s not nice to criticize but I see many things wrong with your theory, and since it’s a Burke did it one, I can’t help but comment:

    Burke was molesting JonBenet by playing a simple game of "Doctor" with her--something he had done in the past as indicated by the experts who saw signs of "chronic" sexual abuse.
    Only this time Burke went too far and hurt her. She started to bleed and cry out for Patsy. Burke panicked and hit her as hard as he could over the head with the Maglite flashlight,

    Ned: There has been much debate about this, given Burkes size, however I think he “could” have inflicted the head wound, only something with more swing like a golf club or bat seems more plausible to me. However I have a hard time believing he would strike her intentionally for screaming. He was after all only 9 years old at the time. I don’t find it believable that this was an accidental blow to the head. It was done with intent.

    which would later be found to match the hole in her skull.

    Ned: Actually there was NO match between the skull fracture and mag flashlight, it was just one weapon that MAY have been used in this crime.

    JonBenet began to convulse violently from the head concussion and died within 3-minutes. People who die from convulsions literally suffocate to death as they are unable to gasp for air.

    Ned: Yes they usually suffocate and choke to death. There was NO indication this ever happened.

    The petechial hemorrhages later misinterpreted by the coroner (and others) as being from the ligature strangulation was actually caused by the convulsive suffocation.

    Ned: The petechial hemorrhages were caused by constriction of the airways. It’s CLEAR that she was affixiated and the nylon rope was what caused the affixation.

    John and Patsy almost immediately discovered what happened and they didn't know what to do. They didn't know if Burke could be arrested, and if so, they didn't know what he would be charged with.

    Ned: This is ridiculous thinking on any parents part. Very simply this would have been an accident. If Burke did it then the Ramsey’s would have had NOTHING to hide.

    A panicked Patsy tried looking up the word "incest" in the dictionary, but it told her nothing about the law. John decided he had to take matters into his own hands and protect his youngest child. "Now I've lost a second daughter", he said to Patsy, "and I will NOT lose a son because of this!".

    Ned: Again ridiculous thinking that anyone would be given anything but a direct meaning for the word.

    The Ramseys knew two things had to be accomplished: The crime had to be pointed outside the house, and Burke had to be convinced he was not responsible for his sister's death. A ransom note would point the crime elsewhere, but a different method of death would be required to prove to Burke someone else (not him) was responsible for her death.

    Ned: Why would any parent go through all this when they simply could have said it was an accident? They couldn’t claim this because they knew Burke would be questioned, and Burke was in no way involved.

    John took her body into the basement and decided a cord around her neck would be the "new" method of death.

    Ned: It WAS the method of death.

    He tried to pull the cord tight but his efforts failed because it was nylon and it slipped in his hands.

    Ned: Easy enough to just wrap it around his hand.

    All he did was create a few marks that Dr. Spitz would later see as evidence of a prior strangulation. John needed some leverage, so he broke off one of Patsy's paint brushes and tied it onto the cord.

    Ned: No man would need leverage to strangle a 6 year old child IMO.

    He was able to yank the cord extremely tight using the stick, causing post-mortem bruising under the cord.

    Ned: Post mortem bruising does NOT cause pooling of blood which is evidence on the right side of her neck. This was done while she was ALIVE!

    Because she was already dead, the cord did no damage to the organs in her neck as the autopsy would later reveal.
    To complete the staging of the body, John tied more cord around her wrists and applied a piece of duct take from Patsy's paint tote to her mouth.

    Ned: See my theory. The amount of tape left on JB’s mouth suggests a woman did this staging not a man. It immediately screams FAKE!

    Then in an effort to make the molestation look "less childlike", he inserted the broken-off end of the paintbrush into her, trying to cause more bleeding.

    Ned: The molestation was done BEFORE her death. You don’t bleed after you die and there was a fair amount of abrasion and swelling in her vaginal region. Please note the autopsy findings
     
  19. tezi

    tezi Member of Websleuths since 2000.

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    Why Nutt,

    I am sitting in awe of what you have written. Now, I have to go think about this. But, I am thinking you may have hit the nail on the head....Do you mind if I print your theory out so I can read it when I have to go get my SO from work? I could be sitting out there for a couple of hours, and that gives me something other than OJ to read.....I won't print it out unless you give me permission. Tezi
     
  20. Cherokee

    Cherokee Member

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    Thanks for posting that link, Shawna. It gives creedence to what I've said all along about Patsy's obsession with IMAGE, her family dysfunction, her enmeshment issues with JonBenet, and her lack of identity development that Brother Moon has already mentioned.

    Here are a few relevant extracts from that link regarding her obsession.


    " ... I do know some people who grew up in her
    neighborhood, and the mother of one of my friends went to high school
    with her ...."

    "By all accounts, Patsy's relationship with her own mother was every bit
    as f***** up as her relationship with JonBenet. From the cradle, she was
    taught that she should be a beauty queen, meet a rich man and use her
    looks and femininity to get out of West Virginia. She reportedly was not
    allowed to associate with the other children in her hometown of
    Parkersburg, since her mother drummed it into her head that she was
    better than those hicks."

    " ... others who knew her claimed that she was obsessive about her appearance and would not go anywhere, even to the mailbox, without makeup, hose and heels ... "

    "According to those who knew her, she was convinced that a woman's only
    worth was in her looks ...."


    IMO
     
  21. Britt

    Britt New Member

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    Ned, lots of great points, but I gotta take issue with this:
    :laugh:
    LOL Ned :D Not "stupid"... superficial, which describes both Ramseys perfectly IMO. Anyway, oh yes, I do think John Ramsey IS THAT stupid. I used to give John a lot more credit than I do now. I now believe he helped compose that ridiculous note... and I wouldn't put anything past him, even the dumber - I mean shallow and silly - aspects of the staging.
     

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