Zahau Death Investigation

[elfie]

Absolutely agreed. RZ had multiple planes of injury that had nothing to do with going over that balcony. I still do not understand why she had that second furrow in her neck. Ok, really LE? Please explain that. That is a HUGE issue. What was she choked with that left that? I bet they remembered to bring THAT item from the staged scene while they forgot gloves and extra knives and paint brushes.

As far as the dust pattern goes, we know RZ was a very small woman. However, after she did ALL THAT ground work (the running around naked through the house, gathering all those items, plus extras, that she needed) then she hopped through the room, knocking over the chair and displacing the blanket and turned off the lights, she did this all while nude, bound and gagged with rope and a tee shirt which by all means should have at the very least made her faint. Then, somehow, after all of that RZ manages to CLOSE THE DOOR BEHIND HER and throw herself over the balcony leaving only that small amount of disturbed dust and a toe print.

I get it that she had a small waist, go RZ, she'd make Scarlett jealous. But here is the thing. When anyone, even a tiny little person like RZ uses their weight to press down (as she would have had to do on that railing) her hips and her thighs would compress against it and make a bigger mark. Any person can see this if they simply press their legs against something. Thank you Mrs. Holmes for pointing this out.

Apologies for the rambling post everyone, but I get a little ticked every time I have to rehash this in my head, because not a bit of it makes sense.:banghead:

Always MOO

The dust clearing on the railing alone is enough to reopen the investigation.

I wonder if someone about Rebecca's size, tied in the same manner with a railing at 36" dusted with baby powder or flour (just in the middle of the floor with a mattress on the other side) would volunteer to attempt to go over it (with a spotter or two to catch them, as well).

 

[*Lash*]

In my opinion if attorney Paul Pfingst was sent to represent AS, most attorneys would recommend their client not take a polygraph. Early that Wednesday morning, Nina shared with Jonah that she had been at the mansion the night before. Nina was asked to take a polygraph, she canceled and it was never rescheduled. I believe it is possible Pfingst was sent on Nina's behalf.

 

[*Lash*]

Wednesday night Nina Romano was at her sisters Coronado home being interviewed by two special agents from the DOJ.

Former San Diego County District Attorney Paul Pfingst visited the Coronado home Wednesday night. He said that the family had been cooperating fully with investigators and that he was asked to help them in that effort.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011...-spreckels-mansion-identified/?page=2#article

 

[K_Z]

The dust clearing on the railing alone is enough to reopen the investigation.

I wonder if someone about Rebecca's size, tied in the same manner with a railing at 36" dusted with baby powder or flour (just in the middle of the floor with a mattress on the other side) would volunteer to attempt to go over it (with a spotter or two to catch them, as well).

And naked, of course. (Volunteers?)

I have always thought that it was immensely odd that LE produced the 2 recreations (Gomez diagram and LEO demonstrating the wrist bindings), but only focused on the mechanism of "fall" in Max's case. I think that is a HUGE gap in any kind of logical approach, in Rebecca's case.

I'm far more interested in a recreation video of the "bind/ hop/ and tip over" theory than the wrist binding. Too bad Gore and company had such a failure of imagination there.

 

[Inparadise]

And naked, of course. (Volunteers?)

I have always thought that it was immensely odd that LE produced the 2 recreations (Gomez diagram and LEO demonstrating the wrist bindings), but only focused on the mechanism of "fall" in Max's case. I think that is a HUGE gap in any kind of logical approach, in Rebecca's case.

I'm far more interested in a recreation video of the "bind/ hop/ and tip over" theory than the wrist binding. Too bad Gore and company had such a failure of imagination there.

They didn't even use the same type of rope in their little "show".......the kind of rope that Rebecca was bound and hung with leaves bruises, and it is difficult to work with. It is not flexible and is coated so that it does not sink.......the rope that SDSO used is cotton and quite easy to work with.

I would be happy to volunteer.......I'm close to Rebecca in size.

 

[*Lash*]

The footprints on the balcony were 'assumed' to be Rebecca's. What happened to Gore's statement science doesn't lie? Really, speculation is far from science.

Who did the footprints belong to? The dusty impressions lacked enough detail to “make a comparison for identification purposes, Nesbit said. “However, the size of the impressions … was consistent with the size of Ms. Zahau’s feet.”

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011...e-case-suicide-family-unconvi/?page=2#article

 

[Inparadise]

The footprints on the balcony were 'assumed' to be Rebecca's. What happened to Gore's statement science doesn't lie? Really, speculation is far from science.

Since that was the bedroom where XZ was staying, and it is highly likely that her feet were similar in size to Rebecca's, it is possible that the imprints were hers.

 

[screecher]

They didn't even use the same type of rope in their little "show".......the kind of rope that Rebecca was bound and hung with leaves bruises, and it is difficult to work with. It is not flexible and is coated so that it does not sink.......the rope that SDSO used is cotton and quite easy to work with.

I would be happy to volunteer.......I'm close to Rebecca in size.

Don't forget to choke and gag yourself with a long sleeved t-shirt Inparadise.

 

[freespeech]

BBM

From SDSO FAQ website:

'How did she learn these complex knots?We don’t believe she did. These knots were not as complex as they have been made out to be, which is what we discovered when we attempted to recreate the knots on Rebecca’s wrists. Simply stated, this is one of those questions which will most likely never be answered with any certainty.'

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html

Why can't this question be answered with a greater degree of scientific and factual knowlege?

Could the question have been better addressed by using the identical type of rope as was used used on Rebecca? Also, would the demonstration have been more accurate if an unrehearsed, civilian with no knot tying expertise did the experiement under somewhat stressful circumstances to simumulate the distraught state of mind that SDSO alleged Rebecca experienced after recieving Jonah's alleged trigger voice mail?

With the above mentioned factors in place would the experiment have better indicated whether or not Rebecca was capable of tying the complex knots that were found at the scene of her death?

 

[bourne]

BBM

From SDSO FAQ website:

'How did she learn these complex knots?We don’t believe she did. These knots were not as complex as they have been made out to be, which is what we discovered when we attempted to recreate the knots on Rebecca’s wrists. Simply stated, this is one of those questions which will most likely never be answered with any certainty.'

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html

Why can't this question be answered with a greater degree of scientific and factual knowlege?

Could the question have been better addressed by using the identical type of rope as was used used on Rebecca? Also, would the demonstration have been more accurate if an unrehearsed, civilian with no knot tying expertise did the experiement under somewhat stressful circumstances to simumulate the distraught state of mind that SDSO alleged Rebecca experienced after recieving Jonah's alleged trigger voice mail?

With the above mentioned factors in place would the experiment have better indicated whether or not Rebecca was capable of tying the complex knots that were found at the scene of her death?

I don't understand what SDSO is saying at all. It makes no sense. If the knots are so easy, wouldn't the majority of people who tie their own hands and feet make the same types of knots? So why would Rebecca, an ordinary person with little boating experience, make knots that resemble sailor knots?

I would think for most people unfamiliar with sailing, boating or yachting, that they'd most likely do a simple knot, like tying a shoelace. Why would Rebecca tie sailor knots?

Then to top it off, SDSO claims Rebecca likely did not learn such complex knots. This just blows the mind. SDSO claimed Rebecca did not learn sailor knots, but then she indeed makes these sailor knots, not once around her wrists, but twice, around her ankles, and knows how to make a perfect noose?

Why would Rebecca repeat the same type of sailor knot without having learned such knotting? And use the heavy-duty boating ropes that only people experienced in sailing would use and be capable of cutting, winding and tying?

And how impossible would it be for a novice like Rebecca to cut the ropes so precisely without leaving any messy shavings all over the carpet in the murder bedroom, or frayed ends on the rope?

It is most obvious that someone else experienced in cutting ropes made the precise cuts, and that they likely had the ropes pre-cut in 3 pieces of precise lengths prior to actually showing up at the Spreckels mansion to tie up Rebecca's wrists and ankles and make the loose around her neck. That person likely left shavings in their own home, boat, or wherever they cut the rope. This person had to be experienced in cutting sailor ropes. No doubt about it. And this experienced person was most definitely not the novice Rebecca.

 

[Inparadise]

I don't understand what SDSO is saying at all. It makes no sense. If the knots are so easy, wouldn't the majority of people who tie their own hands and feet make the same types of knots? So why would Rebecca, an ordinary person with little boating experience, make knots that resemble sailor knots?

I would think for most people unfamiliar with sailing, boating or yachting, that they'd most likely do a simple knot, like tying a shoelace. Why would Rebecca tie sailor knots?

Then to top it off, SDSO claims Rebecca likely did not learn such complex knots. This just blows the mind. SDSO claimed Rebecca did not learn sailor knots, but then she indeed makes these sailor knots, not once around her wrists, but twice, around her ankles, and knows how to make a perfect noose?

Why would Rebecca repeat the same type of sailor knot without having learned such knotting? And use the heavy-duty boating ropes that only people experienced in sailing would use and be capable of cutting, winding and tying?

And how impossible would it be for a novice like Rebecca to cut the ropes so precisely without leaving any messy shavings all over the carpet in the murder bedroom, or frayed ends on the rope?

It is most obvious that someone else experienced in cutting ropes made the precise cuts, and that they likely had the ropes pre-cut in 3 pieces of precise lengths prior to actually showing up at the Spreckels mansion to tie up Rebecca's wrists and ankles and make the loose around her neck. That person likely left shavings in their own home, boat, or wherever they cut the rope. This person had to be experienced in cutting sailor ropes. No doubt about it. And this experienced person was most definitely not the novice Rebecca.

Rope like that frays when cut......professionals use a match to prevent that from happening. We don't know if it was frayed or not.....my gues is not.

 

[bourne]

Rope like that frays when cut......professionals use a match to prevent that from happening. We don't know if it was frayed or not.....my gues is not.

Yes, the ropes that bound Rebecca's wrists, ankles and neck do fray. I thought I had seen a crime scene pic of the end of the rope and it was not frayed. But maybe I'm wrong.

If none of the multiple ropes were frayed, that is a sure sign that murder took place, as like you say, someone had to either light up or put tape around the rope ends to keep them from fraying.

I would think non-frayed ends would be hard for LE to miss, but then we've seen the type of detection the SDLE did in Rebecca's case: cursory, hasty as to be non-existent.

 

[elfie]

They didn't even use the same type of rope in their little "show".......the kind of rope that Rebecca was bound and hung with leaves bruises, and it is difficult to work with. It is not flexible and is coated so that it does not sink.......the rope that SDSO used is cotton and quite easy to work with.

I would be happy to volunteer.......I'm close to Rebecca in size.

Wow, thanks Inparadise. The results should be interesting. The closest right toe print was at least a foot to the right of the largest cleared area. From that position I'm still wondering if it's even possible to get over the railing, and if possible what the cleared area will be. I am very interested to hear about the results. Thanks again.

 

[iSleuth]

I came across this and thought I would share it...I thought of RZ and her autopsy which shows many of these marks. page 6 head and neck

(http://www.writing-world.com/mystery/suicide.shtml

Hanging, whether done with rope, an electrical cord or a belt, always leaves an inverted V bruise, and is easy to tell from ligature strangulation (murder), which leaves a straight-line bruise. Hanging compresses the veins, but arterial blood flow continues, causing small bleeding sites on the lips, inside the mouth and on the eyelids. As with ligature strangulation, the face and neck are congested with blood and become dark red.

Ligature strangulations are almost always homicide and the victims are almost always women. Often the murderer uses more force than necessary to kill the victim, causing deep bruises and abrasions around the neck. The victim will usually struggle, which results in damage to both the interior and exterior structures of the neck and throat.

 

[time]

I'm putting this here since a question came up about the gloves found and since it was veering away from legal questions:

AB stated that there was mixed DNA all over the scene including the bed frame, knife, black gloves and under Rebecca's nails.

..." Sheriff's Crime Lab Director Michael Grubb did not dispute the presence of unidentifiable, mixed DNA at the Coronado scene.

"The majority of the DNA under Rebecca Zahau's fingernails was her own," said Grubb. "Various fingernails were tested as separate samples and one of them showed a DNA mixture but the level of DNA was so low that it was an un-interpretable mixture."

In addition to the fingernail sample, unidentified DNA also was recovered from the rope used in Zahau's alleged hanging; a large knife used to the cut the rope; the bed frame to which the rope was tied; a door knob on the balcony door; and a pair of black gloves found on a table in the mansion, Grubb said."

"Because the amount of mixed DNA recovered was so minuscule, San Diego County Sheriff Bill Gore said it was unnecessary to collect DNA samples from Zahau's boyfriend, Arizona tycoon Jonah Shacknai, or Jonah's ex-wife, Dina Shacknai."

I hope that Michael Grub made slides and inventoried the "un-interpretable DNA" since apparently there are other methods also available for interpretation of these types of samples.

Also, you can't win the argument that the only DNA at the scene was Rebecca's if you refuse to take samples from other "witnesses" and test them against the mixed DNA that was recovered from the scene. Don't get me wrong but I thought the point of an investigation is to discover what happened and not prove the point that they are saying she killed herself.

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/16068012/mixed-dna-all-over-zahau-death-scene-some-evidence-not-tested

I want to add that I sincerely doubt the sample size of the DNA was too low to type.

 

[time]

Warrant again attached:

Originally Posted by *Lash*
Warrant 41227 - Receipt and Inventory:

2. Pair black gloves

21. Black latex glove

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/...rant_41227.pdf

I take it that #21 has to be black nitrile gloves and that they come in sizes typically. I know the dark blue gloves we buy to paint and such do. The dark blue gloves we have are latex (inside) and nitrile and powder coated. I have no idea if people commonly buy these Black Nitrile gloves for typical household use unless it is for electronics or automotive work or kinky sex?

These black nitrile gloves are used by workers in health care, automotive, electronic assembly, law enforcement, security environments, tattoo shops and beauty salons. Our black nitrile gloves are exam grade, latex-free, powder-free, 510K approved and can be used in medical applications. Features a textured finish for excellent chemical resistance and a great grip. Wearing a black nitrile glove allows instant hand protection without the visibility of blood, dirt and other contaminants.

* Complies with FDA Biocompatibility Guidance for Medical Devices
* Passes viral penetration test (ASTM F1671)
* 510K/Approved for medical use
* ISO 9002 Certified QMS

It would be interesting to know what size the black nitrile gloves are and if there is DNA inside.

 

[jjenny]

Someone who hasn't tied these type of knots before isn't likely at all to come up with them on their own (however simple SDSO might claim those knots are).
And as far as I can tell, they haven't found any searches on her computer to look up how to tie these knots.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

I'm putting this here since a question came up about the gloves found and since it was veering away from legal questions:



I want to add that I sincerely doubt the sample size of the DNA was too low to type.

Good God..... mixed DNA on ropes, knives and gloves etc.... nothing tested....

GLOVES.... why in the world would a pair of gloves like that be in the house... there was another set of gloves too..... maybe the nitrate ones were from the medics?

People witnessed a strange person at the door carrying a bag.... people heard a woman scream for help...

boggles my mind..... the sarcastic note on the door... hog tied and hung over a balcony... it took LE hours they said so in their presser to figure out how to do those knots... and apparently didn't even use the same kind of rope...

ABSOLUTE CRAP LAW ENFORCEMENT... ANOTHER SHAMEFUL DAMAGING BLACK MARK ON GORE'S RECORD

 

[time]

I was a little confused on the gloves, so I went searching.

From the search Warrant (41227) - list of items:

1. Knife
2. Pair black gloves
3. Paper towel w/red stains
4. Box w/paint supplies
5. Dr. Pepper bottle
6. Clothing
7. Flip camera
8. Basket w/cameras
9. Stain kit
10. Clump of hair
11. Document addressed to Jonah
12. Tissue w/red stain
13. Clothing
14. Hair
15. Receipt for paint supplies
16. Candle
17. Water bottle
18. Bedding
19. 2 red plastic cups
20. Underwear
21. Black latex glove
22. Table
23. Greeting card
24. Paper w/writing
25. Bedding
26. Butcher Knife
27. Steak knife
28. White plastic bag
29. Rope
30. Samsung cell phone
31. Paint brush
32. Stain kit
33. Small paint brush
34. Green & white striped towel
35. Bedroom door
36. Tube of black paint
37. Laptop computer
38. Mac computer
39. Olympus camera
40. Lumix camera
41. Swab kit
42. Swab kit
43. Swab kit
44. DNA swab
45. Print cards

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41227.pdf

I'm not sure where the pair of black gloves were found (above says on a table and that they had mixed DNA on them). I thought the black latex glove was found in the balcony bedroom. Can anyone validate that?

Sorry, but I don't think most anyone has just one black latex glove lying around anyway.

 

[Serpico]

I'll try again and see if my future posts survive. Here are a few thoughts on subjects brought up on this thread.

The footprints on the balcony....the set that were so close to the balcony door I've always felt that RZ's "bound" body was LIFTED UP after the doors were open by the killer and her body was dropped down so her feet were touching the dirty/dusty balcony surface.This could've been accomplished with the killer's feet just inside the room. Does anyone have that balcony footprint picture to support my theory?

All the dna/blood issues all go back to the SDSO crime lab to Director Gary Thompson so I don't trust any of those results. Geez...Adam supposedly cut down RZ on a 3 legged table and there wasn't any Adam fingerprints or dna on that portion of the rope? How about Adam taking the GAG out of Rebecca's mouth - the reported CPR yet nothing showed up with Adam. By the way, did Pfingst's friend Thompson ever measure the 3 cut pieces of the "tow rope" ? I've never read that is was measured to the same factory length as advertised. Hmm...

One of the primary reasons CA AG Ms. Harris should launch an independent investigation is the real possible conflict of interest between the SDSO Crime Lab Director Gary Thompson and his long time friend and former boss in the SD DA's office Paul Pfingst and Shacknai attorney. That alone should even bring in our Justice Department Eric Holder to see if ALL evidence was tested and tested properly, phone records of Thompson and Pfingst from July 13 thru September 13 in 2011.

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