Zimmerman sues Crump, Martin's parents and others

Discussion in 'George Zimmerman Trial/Trayvon Martin' started by fr brown, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    George Zimmerman recently filed a lawsuit against Benjamin Crump, Trayvon Martin's parents, Diamond Eugene, Rachel Jeantel and others alleging that they conspired to replace the genuine ear-witness in the case, Diamond Eugene, with her half-sister, Rachel Jeantel.

    That would help explain Jeantel's demeanor and testimony during the trial which many people, including myself, found baffling. It never occurred to me though that a witness could actually make it into a trial masquerading as someone else. It still seems incredible.

    But I don't see denials from those named in the suit. There's some bombast from Benjamin Crump, but as of now no simple statement such as "Rachel Jeantel was the one on the phone with Trayvon during his confrontation with Zimmerman."
     


  2. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    So I've been waiting for someone to address the claims in Zimmerman's lawsuit. It's just crickets so far. This morning Joey Jackson wrote an opinion piece on CNN.com opining that the lawsuit was doomed. He went on to write: "Contrary to Zimmerman's apparent belief, he wasn't falsely picked out of a lineup and framed. He actually shot and killed Trayvon Martin. That was never in dispute. The only issue was whether the shooting was in self-defense."

    Um, no. Zimmerman does not have an "apparent belief" that he was picked out of a lineup, falsely or otherwise. The issue isn't even whether or not Zimmerman was justified in shooting Martin. The jury decided he was. The issue is whether or not trial witness Rachel Jeantel was the actual ear-witness or if she was a substitute for Brittany Diamond Eugene. If that did happen, who knew about it when?

    Law enforcement had decided, based on witness testimony, that Zimmerman acted in self-defense. Then Benjamin Crump arranged an interview with Diamond Eugene on ABC on March 19. The interview was supposed to be filmed, but was changed to a phone interview, little of which was broadcast. During the interview Diamond Eugene, with Crump's coaching, amplified her account of the incident. (Later in Sybrina Fulton's deposition, she claimed that on that same day Eugene had given her a handwritten account of the confrontation. That letter gives a briefer and probably more truthful account, imo. That letter was only disclosed when Fulton was questioned about it by defense attorneys.) The phone interview, the public agitation it incited, and Crump's continued lobbying forced law enforcement to bring charges against Zimmerman, it is alleged. That's why this matters--along with the whole perjury and witness tampering stuff.

    Here's the text of Diamond Eugene's letter:

    "[In cursive]

    March 19, 2012

    I was on the phone when Trevon[sic] decided to go to the Cornerstore. It started to rain so he decided to walk through another complex because it was raining to hard He started walking then noticed someone was following him. Then he decided to find a shortcut cause the man wouldn't follow him. Then he said the man didn't follow him again. Then he looked back and saw the man again. The man started getting closer. Then Trevon turned around and said Why are you following me!! Then I heard him fall then the phone hung up. I called back and text. No response. In my mind I thought it was just a fight. Then I found out the tragic story.

    Thank you,
    [end of cursive]

    Diamond Eugene"

    This more or less accords with Zimmerman's account: Martin circled his car while Zimmerman was inside it on the non-emergency police line and then Martin took off. When he was out of sight, Zimmerman got out of his car to see which way Martin went. The operator asked Zimmerman if he was following Martin and told him he didn't need to do that. Zimmerman said, "OK" and headed back to his car. When Zimmerman was close to his car, Martin appeared behind Zimmerman and said, "What's your problem?" Zimmerman responded, "I don't have a problem," at which point Martin punched him in the nose, breaking it, and knocking Zimmerman to the ground. Martin jumped on him and straddled him, punching him in the face with one hand, stifling his screams with the other. A close eyewitness shouted for them to stop. That eyewitness testified that Zimmerman was on the bottom screaming and that Martin was on the top. Martin did not stop until he was shot.

    Eugene being an ear-witness only to the confrontation, might just be inferring that it was Zimmerman who came up behind Martin.

    As I understand it, the existence of Eugene's letter was not disclosed to the defense until Rachel Jeantel mentioned it in her deposition. For one thing, it would be difficult to explain why Rachel Jeantel would sign such an important letter "Diamond Eugene."

    None of this witness substitution business is entirely new. Blogs at the time speculated that Rachel Jeantel was not an actual ear-witness. During her deposition with the prosecutors she had blurted out, "I feel guilty, real guilty. I ain't know about it. I ain't know about it!" Then the interview was terminated.

    The existence of an actual person named Diamond Eugene was not known to the defense attorneys at the time of trial, but the lawsuit alleges that it was known to Sybrina Fulton and Benjamin Crump (at least), who had met the real person. (Allegedly, Sybrina seemed to be surprised when Rachel Jeantel claimed to be Diamond Eugene, but she did not disclose the substitution to the defense or the media.)

    So it seems that there may be some behind-the-scenes scrambling going on. I assume that there will be a countersuit or something in coming days. We'll see.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  3. vlpate

    vlpate Sleuther with a porpoise

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    (Snipped for brevity)

    Crump has given one interview that I am aware of - with Ricky Smiley. RS asked nothing about the lawsuit, Crump brought it up and called Zimmerman all the usual names - then he asked for people to contribute to the Trayvon Martin Foundation to mount their defense.

    He also said he hasn't granted interviews with MSM because he doesn't want to bring attention to the suit, which Zimmerman wants.

    Regardless of what one might think about GZ or the lawyer that filed his case, the 750 pages of text messages and a lot of follow up sleuthing by the author, leaves zero doubt D Eugene was replaced by R Jeantel to secure the arrest of GZ.

    The documentary is called "The Trayvon Hoax"

    Rickey Smiley / Crump Interview


    Lawsuit https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3xd66dusRGkeObrq3XSEly
     
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  4. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    Crump wouldn't have to grant an interview. He could simply tweet that Rachel Jeantel was indeed the ear-witness on the phone with Trayvon Martin. Or he could tweet that to the best of his belief Rachel Jeantel was the ear-witness on the phone with Trayvon Martin. That shouldn't be hard if it's the truth.

    There have been quite a few opinion pieces out in recent days maligning George Zimmerman and ostentatiously avoiding mention of Diamond Eugene or Rachel Jeantel. The suit was mentioned on MSNBC. Nothing to keep Crump from responding now....
     
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  5. vlpate

    vlpate Sleuther with a porpoise

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    He responded with a statement...no mention of a switch there either.
     
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  6. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    I followed this trial and remember Rachel Jeantel's bizarre behavior and testimony. If this ear-witness switch is true, it sure explains it. It's hard to believe that this could be pulled off in such a high profile trial.
     
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  7. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    I found news reports by ABC and NBC. ABC mentions the alleged switch. NBC shows Diamond Eugene's photo (purportedly). Neither names Eugene.

    Rachel Jeantel's lawyer issued a statement saying that Jeantel's testimony at trial was "accurate" and she can characterize her relationship with Trayvon any way she chooses (as not girlfriend).

    That's odd. There's nothing about actually having been on the phone with Martin. I don't really care that she was accurate about not being his girlfriend.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  8. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    Zimmerman's defense was not "stand your ground." According to him and his attorneys he had no opportunity to retreat, having been knocked to the ground by a punch that broke his nose.

    A close eyewitness testified that Zimmerman was on the ground screaming, straddled by Martin who was raining blows on him until he was shot.
     
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  9. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    Rachel Jeantel's lawyer's statement would have been a good time to say "Rachel has a close relative named Diamond Eugene and Rachel sometimes adopts that name, including in this case."

    Or to deny that. It didn't do either.
     
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  10. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen the documentary, but I have now read the book. Using info therein, I believe I found some social media accounts linked to Brittany Diamond Eugene (at least photos and info match those provided in the book).

    She's sexier than Rachel Jeantel, to put it mildly. I can see why Martin was smitten and would spend five hours on the phone with her on February 26 alone.

    The accounts seem to be protected. I only saw a few photos. In any case, I just wanted to do a small check on Gilbert's work, given the media's silence on the subject.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  11. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    Dr. Glenn Loury and Dr. John McWhorter discuss possible witness substitution in the Trayvon Martin case. I'm not familiar with Dr. Loury, but I'm a fan of Dr. McWhorter. It's worth hanging in for the whole discussion.

     
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  12. vlpate

    vlpate Sleuther with a porpoise

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    You actually see her in the documentary, she's quite beautiful.
     
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  13. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for providing this video fr brown. Drs. Loury and McWhorter are impressive and it was certainly worth the time to listen. It will be interesting to see what the effect of Zimmerman's lawsuit will have on the media and general public. I am astounded by this revelation of witness switching. smh
     
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  14. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    Unless they can make it go away, Larry Klayman better prepare himself for a sh*tstorm of biblical proportions. If what Klayman is alleging is true, Bernie de la Rionda must be guilty of incompetence at best, criminality at worst. All the cases he prosecuted are potentially in play. Klayman should get himself some high-powered help if he can.

    I watched most of Rachel Jeantel's testimony the other day. Especially during that first half hour on the stand, she seemed over-medicated, like she might actually fall asleep. But she hung in there.

    She was firm that Martin had gotten to his house. (Of course I don't know where this information came from, Martin himself, Crump, or Diamond Eugene.) I looked at an overhead of the area. The place where the event happened is not near where Martin was staying so if he did go home, he must have come back to confront Zimmerman.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
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  15. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    The ABC phone interview with Diamond Eugene and Ben Crump. (Originally it was supposed to be videoed.) It doesn't sound like Rachel Jeantel to me. (Captions give me a clue.)

     
  16. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't really sound like RJ, but what does RJ sound like when she hasn't been medically sedated, which seemed obvious at the trial? RJ could provide another audio which could be compared to this one by experts.

    I didn't know who Larry Klayman was until I googled him. His reputation alone could cause a perceived lack of credibility for GZ's suit and how the media will handle it. As far as I can tell it isn't getting much attention since the initial report of the law suit. jmo.
     
  17. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    I just listened to Jeantel talking to Piers Morgan. She sounds like she did at trial, but doesn't trail off.

    Gilbert secretly recorded Diamond Eugene. He did a voice comparison and decided to his satisfaction that Eugene was speaking in the phone interview, but I don't remember the details. The movie might cover it better.

    There are new hit pieces on Zimmerman every day so it must be getting somebody's goat.

    Yeah, I wish somebody other than Klayman was doing it. Not sure if he was Zimmerman's first choice. (Z used to be an Obama Democrat.)

    Eugene is still in the area so it seems the players haven't been worried. That gives me pause.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
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  18. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    To be clear, Gilbert alleges the substitution took place after the ABC phone interview, but before the prosecutors talked to Jeantel. When Sybrina Fulton took the prosecutors to pick up Diamond Eugene at her home, they were directed to another house where Rachel Jeantel presented herself as the ear-witness "Diamond Eugene." Sybrina, who had met Diamond Eugene, was surprised because she texted Diamond Eugene something along the lines of "WTF!?" Eugene immediately tweeted something like "Trayvon's mom thinks I was Trayvon's girlfriend o_O"

    Allegedly at some later point, Eugene gives her prepaid cell phone to Jeantel. (Eugene had two; she would keep the one she used for her other boyfriend.) As I recall, the prosecutors asked Jeantel if the cell phone was in her name and Jeantel replied, "It should be now." But at the time of the interview with the prosecutors Eugene must still be in possession of it.

    So maybe this will be the defense: it was Diamond Eugene who was pretending to be Trayvon Martin's girlfriend and ear-witness, but it was Jeantel all along. It's not a crime to deceive ABC. It's not a crime to have a burner phone in a nickname. Diamond Eugene, however, was a prolific tweeter as well as a prolific texter and phone-yakker. Gilbert correlates the content of the texts with the timing and contents of the tweets so that defense might not fly.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
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  19. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    I just watched a longish video of de la Rionda and O'Mara taking turns questioning one of de la Rionda's IT guys, Ben Kruidbos, in a pretrial hearing. I learned that the prosecution generated a report on the contents of Martin's phone in March 2012, but allowed Zimmerman's defense to think that the contents could not be retrieved. O'Mara and West only discovered that the phone worked in August. (If I remember correctly--from another source--the defense saw the phone sitting on a desk and turned it on or something and found it was operational.) They received the report the next month.

    That report, as I understand it, didn't include deleted files. Kruidbos, it seems, eventually did an analysis which included deleted files. It turned out to be 30 times larger than the the original analysis. The new analysis included such things as a text about buying a gun, a photo of the hand of an African-American hand holding a gun, a gun on a bed, a marijuana plant, Martin smoking something or other, etc. When Kruidbos presented the new report, de la Rionda said that he was going to turn over the unreadable binary file to the defense. Deciphering it would require expensive specialized software, hamstringing the defense. Kruidbos became concerned that he himself would be in legal jeopardy. He got a lawyer and together they contacted the defense. (That's interesting. Like someone would make him the scapegoat if it ever came out. Hm.)

    de la Rionda's questioning was pretty animated. He demanded to know if Kruidbos was accusing him of deleting the files or of doing something wrong. I'm not sure that this helped de la Rionda very much. Kruidbos said "no," but I was left wondering. Eventually dlR calmed down somewhat.

    I'm a little confused because I was under the impression that Tracy Martin, Trayvon's dad, had discovered Diamond Eugene by looking at Trayvon's phone. If so, how could anyone get the idea it wasn't working?

    Kruidbos was fired after the trial. He sued Angela Corey for $5 million. It seems like the suit was ongoing as of 2017 or 2018.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
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  20. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    I didn't watch much of the trial and had no idea about Kruidbos's lawsuit. Interesting information fr brown.
     

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