Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #13

[Vern]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I think that it can be stated that no one in this thread has ever denied there was a massive failure of intelligence on October 7th. We all know. We were all shocked by it.

It can also be stated that, on many occasions, BN and Israel have ADMITTED that and stated that it, and it's causes would be fully investigated when the priority right now - that is Hamas - is dealt with.

It can also be stated that this issue keeps being brought up and often as a means to blame Israel for October 7th. "If Israel had done this, or hadn't done that, or had troops here , insinuating it wouldn't have happened etc etc etc. That is pure victim blaming IMO.

The blame for October 7th falls squarely on Hamas and upon any other individual who knew and supported their plans. Israel acknowledged the intelligence failure way back on October 7th for those who missed it. They've said so since the beginning of this War.

Note: Conricus, as we all know, immediately re-enlisted into the IDF
“This appears to be a colossal intelligence failure by the Israeli establishment,” said Jonathan Conricus, a former Israeli military spokesman.

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https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief-admits-failures-and-promises-investigation-vows-to-dismantle-hamas/

In his first public statement since the war began, Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Herzi Halevi on Thursday acknowledged failures surrounding the brutal Hamas invasion on Saturday, but said now was not the time to investigate what went wrong.

“The IDF is responsible for the security of the country and its citizens, and on Saturday morning in the area surrounding the Gaza Strip, we did not handle it,” he said. “We will learn, we will investigate, but now is the time for war.”

Halevi said that the military has “a contract with the citizens of Israel, we have stood by it for many years with ups and downs. We are currently at a dramatic low point.” However, he vowed, “we will do everything to restore this contract, bring back security.”

The Israeli Prime Minister has faced a barrage of opposition and media criticism after Gaza militants breached Israeli border defenses. He acknowledged for the first time on Wednesday that 'the fault will be examined and everyone will have to give answers, including me.'

Israel PM Netanyahu says will 'have to give answers' on Hamas attacks lapses

The Israeli Prime Minister has faced a barrage of opposition and media criticism after Gaza militants breached Israeli border defenses. He acknowledged for the first time on Wednesday that 'the fault will be examined and everyone will have to give answers, including me.'

www.lemonde.fr

Here's another from just 14 hours ago:
Herzl "Herzi" Halevi, the Chief of the General Staff of the Israel Defense Forces, commented on October 7 intelligence failure: "Given the harsh results, and the interest in it that is obvious: we will be accountable, we will listen to each and every one of those under our command and we will learn what they thought and also what they said. IDF and also the intelligence branch failed in October 7 events. There will be deep and poignant investigations, but for now we need to focus on the fight."

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[Sundog]

'Emily Hand's father vows to help her through the trauma of spending her ninth birthday running from missile strikes in Gaza - ​

as hopes rise the ceasefire could be extended.​

View attachment 464536

The father of a young girl who was held hostage by Hamas for 50 days has vowed to do 'whatever it takes'
to help his daughter recover after revealing how she spent her ninth birthday running from missile strikes in Gaza.

Four days after his daughter's emotional release, Mr Hand said:
'She was a happy noisy kid,
now she whispers.
She's been terrorised by terrorists in hell but as her dad it's my job to make it better and I will.'

The first thing she asked for after her release was her phone so that she could watch a video of her favourite pop star Beyonce.

Emily Hand's dad reveals she spent birthday running from missiles

Emily Hand, an Irish-Israeli citizen, was kidnapped and presumed dead when Hamas terrorists invaded Israel on October 7, slaughtering 1,200 and taking 240 more captive.

www.dailymail.co.uk

<snipped for focus>

Maybe they can get Beyonce to do a facetime call with Emily. Bring back her smile, as she begins her long and difficult healing journey.

 

[Sundog]

“At what is now known as Hostage Square, just outside the Tel Aviv Museum of Art, a few hundred people gathered tonight to support the Bibas family. Yarden and his wife, Shiri, were kidnapped by Hamas from the Nir Oz kibbutz on Oct. 7, along with their two boys — 4-year-old Ariel and Kfir, now 10 months old.”

More hostages to be released after Gaza cease-fire is extended

Follow NBC News' latest coverage of the Israel-Hamas war: More hostages and prisoners to be released; U.S. pushes for further extension in Qatar talks.

www.nbcnews.com

Bring them home!

 

[Friday Fan]

<snipped for focus>

Maybe they can get Beyonce to do a facetime call with Emily. Bring back her smile, as she begins her long and difficult healing journey.

They all look so shell shocked. (I don't think it's the correct term, but I don't what other term to use)

 

[Dotta]

Families of Israelis taken by Hamas say UK government not doing enough

Pete and Gill Brisley, whose daughter and granddaughters were slaughtered by Hamas while their son-in-law was taken hostage, slammed ministers' response as 'impotent and inadequate'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SophieRose]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/28/middleeast/thomas-hand-emily-hostage-intl/index.html

But nearly a month later, the Israeli army told him it was “highly probable” Emily [Hand] was alive and a hostage of Hamas. Hand said the military had been piecing together bits of information and intelligence. None of the remains at Kibbutz Be’eri were identified as those of Emily. There was no blood in the house where she slept. And cellphones belonging to Hila’s family had been tracked to Gaza.

Snip

But he also saw a sign of the child he knew when he offered her his phone in the van leaving the handover.

“The first thing she did was get a Beyoncé song on,” he said, adding that she was also smiling and was starting to laugh again.

He had taken the family dog Johnsie to the reunion to offer and receive unconditional love in case Emily was angry at him for not coming to rescue her – a fear he has held since he learned she was alive.

But Emily told her father she thought he had been taken hostage too.

Snip

Along with her sorrow, her pale skin and hollowed out face, Emily has returned with a head full of lice, Hand said.

 

[Elley Mae]

Israel at war: What happened on day 54? | The Jerusalem Post

Qatar, US pushing to extend ceasefire beyond Thursday morning. Hamas says they're ready to resume combat with Israel if ceasefire expires.

m.jpost.com

 

[SouthAussie]

.
Four-year-old Abigail Edan was discharged from the hospital late on Tuesday night ..... a spokesperson for Schneider Children’s Medical Center in Petah Tikvah said.

Live updates | Hamas and Israel free more hostages and prisoners as deadline to extend truce nears

Israel has agreed to extend the truce by one day for every 10 hostages freed, and Hamas is expected to release another group of hostages Wednesday.

apnews.com

 

[Mex]

One thing I’ve not understood is why Egypt has a blockade against allowing Palestinians in to their country? Or why no other Arab country will accept them. I get Palestinians not wanting to leave their home but everything I’ve read says no one else will take them en masse so that the civilians can leave even if temporarily.

De facto the Palestinian nation are being expelled from their clearly defined homeland and turned into wanderers and refugees.

After the war Palestine was described as a land without people and the European Jews who had been expelled as a people with no land.

It just wasn't true on either count.

My opinion

 

[SouthAussie]

Israel at war: What happened on day 54? | The Jerusalem Post

Qatar, US pushing to extend ceasefire beyond Thursday morning. Hamas says they're ready to resume combat with Israel if ceasefire expires.

m.jpost.com

It sounds as if 4 more days could be the end of the ceasefire ..... unless the mediators have further success.


Haaretz reports that “according to an official familiar with the ceasefire negotiations”, Israel has indicated that it is unwilling to extend the truce beyond Sunday. Israel previously said it would extend the truce for a day for every occasion on which 10 hostages were released by Hamas from captivity in Gaza.

Israel-Hamas war live: Israel says it has released 30 Palestinians; 16 hostages freed by Hamas

Israel Prison Service says 30 prisoners freed, which Qatar mediator said would comprise 16 children and 14 women; 16 hostages released by Hamas

www.theguardian.com

 

[Dotta]

From my country's MSM

"Polish historian kidnapped by Hamas.​

He delivered the message.​

The Polish-Israeli historian Alex Danzig,
kidnapped by Hamas,
'is alive and well',
reports 7Israel.

The man was said to have delivered the news to his family through the hostage released on Monday.

75-year-old historian
Alex Danzig was abducted from his home on Kibbutz Nir Or during the Hamas attack on Israel.
His son-in-law, Jaron Maor, said
Danzig has been receiving medications that he must take regularly since he underwent bypass surgery.

The released hostage testified that the historian gave lectures to several other imprisoned Israelis from the same kibbutz.

'When we found out he was giving lectures, we couldn't help but laugh',
Maor said. -

'He is an expert, he loved lecturing us until we had enough and wanted to run away from the table.
Now the question is where can his current audience escape to?'
- he joked.

Danzig's family said that after receiving this information, there was a glimmer of hope that their loved one could survive this difficult time."

Polski historyk porwany przez Hamas. Przekazał wiadomość

Porwany przez Hamas polsko-izraelski historyk Alex Dancyg jest żywy i czuje się dobrze - podaje portal 7Israel. Mężczyzna miał przekazać wiadomość rodzinie przez zwolnioną w poniedziałek zakładniczkę.

wiadomosci.wp.pl

"Alex Danzig has Polish and Israeli citizenship.​

Recently,​

the historian was honored by the Polish Council of Christians and Jews with the title of​

Man of Reconciliation for 2023.​

75-year-old Alex Danzig is known for years of activity in matters of peace, dialogue, and building good Polish-Jewish and Jewish-Palestinian relations.​

'By awarding the title of Man of Reconciliation to Alex Danzig, we want to show how important what he does - building bridges - is, especially important today',

says representative of the Polish Council of Christians and Jews.

'We trust and pray that Alex is alive and we will be able to present him with the title in person,
thanking him for his work so far'.


Born 75 years ago in Warsaw and living in Israel since 1957, Alex Danzig has been explaining Poland to Israelis and Israel to Poles for several decades.

He trained guides accompanying young Israelis on their trips to Poland,
organized contacts between Israeli youth and their Polish peers,
created a Hebrew guide to Poland,
taught Polish teachers, museum workers and priests,
and visited Polish schools.

He enables meetings, supports and inspires people who in both countries work for Polish-Jewish understanding."

Porwany przez Hamas Alex Danzig, przyjaciel Polski, żyje | eKAI

Karolina Przewrocka-Aderet, red. naczelna „Kalejdoskop. Kwartalnik polskojęzyczny w Izraelu” rozmawiała z synem Alexa Danziga.

www.ekai.pl

Bring him home!!!!!!!
Bring all hostages home!!!!

 

[Mex]

The propaganda on their Twitter page is remarkable. They are not a legitimate source of anything.

Hamas are apparently “Palestinian resistance fighters.” Enough said.

One doesn't require an X account for verification. Broken bones are easily verified in a hospital with an X-ray or a scan.

 

[Elley Mae]

The breaking point is expected to be any inclusion in the deal of an end to the Gaza war. Israel has been clear about its intention to resume its military campaign to oust Hamas from Gaza once the hostages are freed. Hamas, in turn, wants to free hostages in exchange for an end to the war.

Qatar seeks deal for all Israeli captives in Gaza as 10 set for release

The issue is highly pressurized because that existing deal is set to expire Thursday morning with the resumption of the war.

m.jpost.com

 

[Dotta]

From my country's MSM

"Polish historian kidnapped by Hamas.​

He delivered the message.​

View attachment 464552


The Polish-Israeli historian Alex Danzig,
kidnapped by Hamas,
'is alive and well',
reports 7Israel.

The man was said to have delivered the news to his family through the hostage released on Monday.

75-year-old historian
Alex Danzig was abducted from his home on Kibbutz Nir Or during the Hamas attack on Israel.
His son-in-law, Jaron Maor, said
Danzig has been receiving medications that he must take regularly since he underwent bypass surgery.

The released hostage testified that the historian gave lectures to several other imprisoned Israelis from the same kibbutz.

'When we found out he was giving lectures, we couldn't help but laugh',
Maor said. -

'He is an expert, he loved lecturing us until we had enough and wanted to run away from the table.
Now the question is where can his current audience escape to?'
- he joked.

Danzig's family said that after receiving this information, there was a glimmer of hope that their loved one could survive this difficult time."

Polski historyk porwany przez Hamas. Przekazał wiadomość

Porwany przez Hamas polsko-izraelski historyk Alex Dancyg jest żywy i czuje się dobrze - podaje portal 7Israel. Mężczyzna miał przekazać wiadomość rodzinie przez zwolnioną w poniedziałek zakładniczkę.

wiadomosci.wp.pl

"Alex Danzig has Polish and Israeli citizenship.​

Recently,​

the historian was honored by the Polish Council of Christians and Jews with the title of​

Man of Reconciliation for 2023.​

75-year-old Alex Danzig is known for years of activity in matters of peace, dialogue, and building good Polish-Jewish and Jewish-Palestinian relations.​

'By awarding the title of Man of Reconciliation to Alex Danzig, we want to show how important what he does - building bridges - is, especially important today',

says representative of the Polish Council of Christians and Jews.

'We trust and pray that Alex is alive and we will be able to present him with the title in person,
thanking him for his work so far'.


Born 75 years ago in Warsaw and living in Israel since 1957, Alex Danzig has been explaining Poland to Israelis and Israel to Poles for several decades.

He trained guides accompanying young Israelis on their trips to Poland,
organized contacts between Israeli youth and their Polish peers,
created a Hebrew guide to Poland,
taught Polish teachers, museum workers and priests,
and visited Polish schools.

He enables meetings, supports and inspires people who in both countries work for Polish-Jewish understanding."

Porwany przez Hamas Alex Danzig, przyjaciel Polski, żyje | eKAI

Karolina Przewrocka-Aderet, red. naczelna „Kalejdoskop. Kwartalnik polskojęzyczny w Izraelu” rozmawiała z synem Alexa Danziga.

www.ekai.pl

Bring him home!!!!!!!
Bring all hostages home!!!!

Agan about Polish-Israeli historian kidnapped by Hamas
Alex Dancyg
(another spelling: Danzig)
From my country's MSM

Letter from the son of Alex Dancyg kidnapped by Hamas:​

"Father, come back home!!​

Dear and beloved Dad,

We are alive.
Mom, Ahinoam, Lilusia's family and mine are alive.

A huge miracle occurred and we survived an attack that had not happened since the Holocaust.

The Kibbutz Nir Oz you loved is no more.
It was desecrated, plundered and burned.
Entire families were murdered.

Little children in 2023 should not hear where you are now and under what circumstances...

I have no answers for my girls, your granddaughters whom you love so much.

Everyone misses you and wants you back.
You don't deserve to be where you are now.

You fought fiercely in Israel's wars.

You have lived your entire adult life, over 50 years, in a border settlement.
The state wanted you to fight for it - and you did.
The state wanted you to live on the border, and despite the danger, you stayed there.

You have taught thousands of students throughout your life, demonstrating great talent and exceptional wisdom.

The state's duty, first and foremost, is to bring you home.
I miss you.
I miss our fascinating conversations.
I miss your loving look when I visit you with the girls.

Dear and beloved Father, come back home.

Entire families, including infants and young children, boys and girls, young men and women, men and women with families, and elderly people in need of medicine, have been abducted to Gaza by terrorists who have lost their humanity.

To my father, uncle and all the kidnapped people who were taken from us in a barbaric and inhumane attack -
you do not deserve to be there!

The State of Israel must solve the kidnapping problem.

Now!!!

Not when it's too late.

A great injustice has been done to us.

Unprecedented negligence that can only be paid for in one way.

Return the kidnapped! Now!!!"


Mati Danzig's letter was read in the Square Grzybowski in Warsaw
during the meeting

'In Memory of the Victims of Hamas - For the Return of the Kidnapped'

in the evening of Monday, October 16."

List syna porwanego przez Hamas Alexa Dancyga: Ojcze, wróć do domu

„Przez całe życie nauczałeś tysiące uczniów, wykazując się wielkim talentem i wyjątkową mądrością. Wszystko to dałeś państwu, a ono cię porzuciło. Obowiązkiem państwa, pierwszym i najważniejszym, jest sprowadzenie cię do domu. Tęsknię za tobą” – czytamy w liście.

www.polityka.pl

 

[Mex]

some of them come back to news about their parents or other relatives and friends being dead, so how happy is that? (And yes- lots of people dead in Gaza too, so plenty of tragedy to go around.)

It is part of a process in the human condition. Groups of us have been taking over other peoples' lands since time began.
DNA proves that geographically none of us have finished up where our ancestors started out.
Sometimes there is assimilation after the land grab, sometimes there is annihilation but it never works out well for the displaced indigenous peoples whatever.

Human Origins and Ancestry

Genomics is illuminating human and family origins at a level not previously possible.

www.genome.gov

It is the Palestinians at the receiving end this time round. Their only hope is to negotiate their own lebensraum which takes into consideration those living as refugees everywhere as well as in Gaza.
My opinion

 

[Momoffourboys]

The Bibas family again updated that Shiri, Ariel and baby kfir are not on today’s Hamas list for release.Hamas has presumably transferred them to the hands of a different group, PFLP.Israel holds some senior members of PFLP in prison after they assassinated tourism minister Rehavam Ze'evi.His daughter, Metzada, wrote that she gives her blessing for her father’s killers release in exchange for the Bibas family’s return.

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[Charlot123]

Maybe not news, but the names of the released ones

Who are the hostages released so far in the Israel-Hamas deal?

Under the deal, Israel is freeing three Palestinians from prison for every Israeli hostage allowed out of Gaza.

www.wbaltv.com

It seems to me that there is a predominance of older people or people with dual citizenship amidst those released

 

[Momoffourboys]

Yocheved Lifshitz is 85 years old. She was the first of the kidnapped individuals to be released. Last night, she attended a demonstration calling for the release of all the others, including her husband, Oded Lifshitz. At the event, she shared the remarkable story of her encounter with the leader of Hamas, Yahya Sinwar. She comes from a kibbutz that is part of the Israeli labor and peace movement. They have worked on Palestinian rights and have always supported the two-state solution. "Sinwar was with us three to four days after we were kidnapped," Lifshitz said, "I asked him how he could not be ashamed to do such a thing to people who have supported peace all these years? He did not answer. He just fell silent." Just imagine the courage. This is the generation that built Israel. They are afraid of no one.

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[dotr]

Israel assassinates top Palestinian Islamic Jihad commander in Jenin, IDF confirms

***

www.haaretz.com

'The director of the pediatrics department at Dana Children’s Hospital, Prof. Ronit Lubetzky, said that children who were kidnapped by Hamas and returned to Israel lost 10-17% of their body weight during captivity. According to her, the prolonged stay in a place without light brought them to a state of vitamin deficiency.


Prof. Dror Mendel, Director of the Children's Hospital, added that one girl suffers from "a complex orthopedic injury that needs intervention and will require continued tests, follow-ups and treatments. We will provide all the treatment and all the support and do our best to cause her full recovery."

 

[PommyMommy]

2hr ago

9 Israeli children have been held hostage in Gaza for 54 days​

Thirty-one children held by Gazan terrorists have been released as part of a temporary ceasefire deal with Hamas, but after 54 days, 9 still remain in the Strip.

[...]

Kfir Bibas, 10 months, and Ariel Bibas, 4​

Kfir, the youngest hostage in Gaza, was kidnapped from Kibbutz Nir Oz along with his brother Ariel and parents, Yarden and Shiri.

Due to Kfir’s extraordinarily young age, the redheaded children have become some of the most recognizable among the hostages.

[...]

Gali Tarshansky, 13​

Gali was kidnapped from Kibbutz Be’eri after her brother, Lior, 15, was killed.

The two were hiding in their safe room, along with their father Ilya, when terrorists broke into their home.

[...]

Amit Shani, 16​

Amit was the only member of his family taken by Hamas terrorists on October 7 during the massacre in Kibbutz Be’eri.

He was kidnapped in front of his mother Tal, 47.

Amit and his neighbor, Yossi Sharabi, and Sharabi’s daughter’s visiting boyfriend, Ofir Engel, were all ordered into a black car.

Ofir Engel, 18​

Ofir, kidnapped from Kibbutz Be’eri on October 7, had his birthday in Gaza.

Engel, a dual Dutch-Israeli citizen from Kibbutz Ramat Rachel adjacent to Jerusalem, was visiting his girlfriend.

[...]

Hamas gunmen broke into the family’s sealed room and took everyone out, then they told the women to sit on the grass and shot the family dog.

Bilal Ziyadne, 18, and Aisha Ziyadne, 17​

Bilal and Aisha were kidnapped while working in the cowshed at Kibbutz Holit, along with their father Youssef, 53, and older brother Hamza, 23.

The family lives in the Bedouin city of Rahat, in the Ziyadne neighborhood, named for their extensive family clan.

[...]

Liam Or, 18​

Liam was captured along with his uncle Dror, 48, and his cousins, Noam, 17, and Alma, 13 from Kibbutz Be’eri.

Noam and Alma were released as part of the temporary truce on November 25.

Itay Regev, 18​

Itay and his sister Maya, 21, were kidnapped from the Supernova music festival, a day after returning to Israel from abroad, where they had celebrated their mother’s birthday.

Maya was released on November 25 as part of the truce deal. She was shot on October 7, and she remains hospitalized after undergoing surgery.