Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

[mdana]

They left it at sexual assault for RG, I believe, but not rape, because they couldn't "prove" rape. His cells were inside her, which led them to sexual assault. I guess RS got charged with that because of the bra clasp. I can't remember if AK got charged with it, just so she wouldn't be left out, I suppose. Strangely, they charged AK and RS with the robbery, I guessed based on Angel RG's statements. Otherwise, I don't see the proof they stole from MK. RG's bloody prints and or dna is in the bag, literally, but he's not charged with robbing MK.

You can't make this stuff up. What opposing person here actually believes AK and RS robbed Mk, but not RG? someone tell me if I got all these charges right.

Apparantly, you can and get a conviction.:banghead:

 

[wasnt_me]

Strongest-Lack of more DNA at crime scene that was supposedly a bloody struggle

Positive Spin-AK does not have any DNA in MK's bedroom and RS only has bra clasp and knife which are suspect. While RG left much more evidence at the scene.
Negative Spin-Crime scenes even ones with violent bloody struggles don't always leave copious amounts of a criminal or criminals presence.

Thanks. I'd grant this last sentence EXCEPT what are the odds that the crime scene explodes with DNA from one culprit, but there is NO DNA from the other two? That's not right. If RG's wasn't there, either, I'd have to go with that neg. spin. But RG's is all over the place, so why not RS and AK's, too?

 

[wasnt_me]

Strongest:

RG's Poo is in the toilet.

Now what was his poo telling him at that moment?

Hint: "Get out. Use the fifth key....and the fifth amendment..."

 

[OldSteve]

Thanks. I'd grant this last sentence EXCEPT what are the odds that the crime scene explodes with DNA from one culprit, but there is NO DNA from the other two? That's not right. If RG's wasn't there, either, I'd have to go with that neg. spin. But RG's is all over the place, so why not RS and AK's, too?

Exactly! It always comes back to that there is nothing in MK's room that places AK/RS in her room when her life was so horribly taken.
Even if RS's skin cell DNA is really on the bra clasp - it doesn't show he placed it there that night, or that it didn't get because the clasp was left for so long and then passed around.

 

[mdana]

Thanks. I'd grant this last sentence EXCEPT what are the odds that the crime scene explodes with DNA from one culprit, but there is NO DNA from the other two? That's not right. If RG's wasn't there, either, I'd have to go with that neg. spin. But RG's is all over the place, so why not RS and AK's, too?

Extremely low, but theoretical, so it should not be dismissed entirely, IMO.

 

[wasnt_me]

I believe if you actually look at the events which happened there were some interesting ones. RG did answer with respect to the allegations made by the other inmates

What I found to be even more interesting was that the current prosecutor did not read the statement of 2010 but a consulting prosecutor which according to law is not allowed to be involved in the appeal process which he circumvented read the statement. Thus Mignini read RG's statement of which RG stated he did not understand

This is a statement never disclosed to the defense

Why did the prosecutor supposedly in charge of this appeal not read it out loud? It is like he is trying to distance himself from these proceedings

So this isn't the same letter he wrote in 2010? and is that why he was saying it wasn't his signature? I thought I read RG had said that in court.

If Mig shouldn't be reading letters in open court, why did it happen?

 

[wasnt_me]

The original post was edited for the pertinent section.

I responded to the contention "Anyone thinking the bathroom pic was in blood is 'not well' IMO", with my experience at those two sites. It was not meant as a complaint of the two sites. The implication being that phrase "not well" means abnormal. It was to show that people are mislead by those photos even years later, and that it is not an abnormal occurence.

I have seen the same on comments sections relating to the case as well. It was for example purposes.

Are we supposed to refrain from citing other websites?

I will raise my hand and say I was misled by the photo.

It was one of the first ones I saw when i started researching this case back in april 2011. And I gasped, and yes, I thought JUST what they wanted me to think, "She took a shower in that bathroom???"

BUT, I guess I'm different from others in that my next thought was, "What a dang minute. Something ain't right about this...." and I started delving deeper into the case. Guess What I found? RG's crap in the toilet and his DNA all over the victim, and his ticket to germany. Oh, and a clean picture of the bathroom. I slid on over to the innocent side.

 

[wasnt_me]

Maybe instead of arresting AK because she ate pizza, did the la mosa movement, and sobbed at the crime scene they should of waited till the forensics came back

That goes for PL, too. I'm sure he was eating some pizza, too, but they should have waited for a forsensic report. Preferrably the one that came back with RG's prints.

If they'd bothered to keep the stuff OUT of the media, PL never would have known he was a suspect, anyways, so there'd be little need to worry that he'd leave town while the tests we being done, and why should they worry about PL fleeing in the meantime? They snagged RG's butt out of Germany, so they could have found PL, too. However, if they'd waited for the test, they'd have no need to find PL, even if he did skip town.

 

[otto]

"
Rudy Guede's courtroom testimony this week in the Amanda Knox appeal did a lot to undermine the American's efforts to gain her freedom and paint a picture of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Guede continued to insist that both were present in the house during his time there.

Amanda Knox sought to gain back the ground lost in the appeal hearing after Guede's testimony by attempting to speak during it. However, the court silenced her voice -- as would happen in an American court of law -- and she was forced to respond in a more orderly manner, after Guede had exited the courtroom."

http://www.examiner.com/criminal-pr...ible-to-see-her-go-through-that#ixzz1QaehZWG6

 

[Salem]

Here we will have to part ways again. I think that a math teacher that holds important information about a man falsely accused of murder should be able to figure out a way to get that information to police. Apparently you are willing to overlook the fact that the educated, intelligent math teacher was completely befuddled because she didn't speak Italian, and so she did nothing.

I am not sure where the conversation regarding AK's mom started here and I'm too tired to look tonight. BUT.. AK's mom is not on trial here. It was not her responsibility to fix anything. She is a victim of this tragedy, as are so many others. Let's please leave her out of the discussion.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[emyr]

My main problem with "they did it" is this:

They cover up the crime to buy time. They meticulously clean up any evidence they were there, though Amanda isn't able to fully clean up her footprint evidence. They hope to confuse the crime scene the next day enough to throw the trail off themselves. Though they have been able to think this through enough to clean up, stage a break-in, and organize a confusing "discovery", they do not have a long conversation to get clear and coherent alibis in place, nor do they think to hide the mop in their hands, nor do they think that it would be a good idea to be present with the police when they bust into the room (to confuse any evidence that might implicate them.) Nor do they lawyer up.

I can't come up with a plausible scenario for all three that involves any rational reason for bringing a kitchen knife over, for all three of them stabbing her at the same time, yet miraculously having no blood evidence on their clothing, and then being smart enough to stage a break-in and clean up the evidence, yet not think through the fact that breaking into the room with the police would be a good way to explain any evidence you were there, and then not being smart enough to act like everyone else, and get a lawyer. And on top of that, not getting your alibi's straight, and giving one of the dumbest wrong confessions ever known to man.

The thing is, criminals are often irrational and stupid, so I usually defer to cold, objective evidence. If your DNA is on a bra clasp, well that's a tough hurdle.

 

[otto]

Meredith Kercher's parents did everything they could to stop the Lifetime movie, and have requested that Knox stop being treated like celebrity. Donald Trump is on board with the celebrity angle. On Monday we heard from the one person that has admitted to being at the murder. It has always been known that more than one person committed the crime and that information has been confirmed by the Supreme Court during Guede's final trial hearing. That decision was attached to the Supreme Court ruling of Knox and Sollecito. Guede could have pointed the finger at all sorts of people, like Amanda did, but he didn't. He identified the two people that have been independently connected with the scene.

 

[Nova]

yeah, but I don't understand why he didn't just try to go back out the window. I mean, I guess he could have but she heard him moving around the house.

I think she caught him on the toilet and probably ran to her room to get the keys herself, so she could get out of there.

I suspect you are right. But if not, RG may have been reluctant to go back out FR's window. It was a 15' drop in pitch-black darkness and the window sill was covered with broken glass. RG may have further assumed he couldn't get out with making noise and giving MK time to call the police.

 

[otto]

Is everyone afraid to discuss the fact that Knox and Sollecito have been identified as being present at the murder? The ever uncertain misbespoken dinner hour, who said what and coerced who ... all the fog to hide the elephant in the room.

The legal blunders that led to the testimony of Guede are stunningly stupidfying. Five lying prisoners with conflicting statements were paraded through the courtroom, followed by Guede and his skype friend refuting all, but implicating Knox and Sollecito.

If we exclude trial testimony, eye witness testimony, evidence, DNA, LNC DNA, luminol evidence, circumstantial testimony and the roommates, is she innocent yet?

Two students told incredulous and unverifiable statements from the time of the murder until Nov 6, and then they were arrested.

 

[SMK]

Mdana, where've you been all my life?:blowkiss:

Oh and some kisses, too, for SMK, Nova, Alli, Malk, miley, and all the rest on the island.

back acha:blowkiss::blowkiss:

 

[SMK]

Is everyone afraid to discuss the fact that Knox and Sollecito have been identified as being present at the murder? The ever uncertain misbespoken dinner hour, who said what and coerced who ... all the fog to hide the elephant in the room.

The legal blunders that led to the testimony of Guede are stunningly stupidfying. Five lying prisoners with conflicting statements were paraded through the courtroom, followed by Guede and his skype friend refuting all, but implicating Knox and Sollecito.

If we exclude trial testimony, eye witness testimony, evidence, DNA, LNC DNA, luminol evidence, circumstantial testimony and the roommates, is she innocent yet?

Two students told incredulous and unverifiable statements from the time of the murder until Nov 6, and then they were arrested.

Not afraid to discuss it, but Guede spoke as I knew he would. I wish I could see it as you do, Otto, and did, originally - but too many questions for assurance of guilt....if only the clock had not proven to discount their not calling 112 until after the postal police. and many other facts which fell: The washed clothes, the man who saw Amanda buying bleach. These fell. This was the beginning of the end for me...

 

[SMK]

"
Rudy Guede's courtroom testimony this week in the Amanda Knox appeal did a lot to undermine the American's efforts to gain her freedom and paint a picture of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Guede continued to insist that both were present in the house during his time there.

Amanda Knox sought to gain back the ground lost in the appeal hearing after Guede's testimony by attempting to speak during it. However, the court silenced her voice -- as would happen in an American court of law -- and she was forced to respond in a more orderly manner, after Guede had exited the courtroom."

http://www.examiner.com/criminal-pr...ible-to-see-her-go-through-that#ixzz1QaehZWG6

I see the journalist is comparing Knox to Karla Bernardo. If I viewed her this way, I would of course see her as guilty as well. And why should Guede be believed, after all of his lies, and what he did to Meredith? If Meredith were my sister, daughter, I would be furious at Guede for what he did. Why is his word good now?

"A horrible homicide of a splendid young girl, Meredith Kercher, by Amanda Knox and Raffaele Solliceto."

Guede has never denied his presence in the home that was shared by Amanda and Meredith in Italy during the time of the crime. He has, however, continued to insist he was in the bathroom during the time Meredith was murdered. Forensic evidence showed the restroom had been used the night in question, lending support to Guede's proclamation he was "indisposed" in the girls' bathroom at some point in time that night.

............

Like Karla Bernardo before her, Amanda Knox isn't likely to gain her freedom when so much evidence continues to support the case against her. Her inability to get Rudy Guede to change his story in her favor, coupled with forensic evidence and her behavior prior to the first trial -- and immediately following the murder of Kercher -- will likely continue to influence her appeal action negatively.

http://www.examiner.com/criminal-pr...ible-to-see-her-go-through-that#ixzz1QfLOZvYf

 

[SMK]

Seems a leaked report went out today in Rome to the Associated Press: was picked up by AGI, the British Telegraph, and Fox news this a.m.: "The international procedures for inspection, protocol and collection of evidence were not followed" for both the bra clasp and the knife, they said.

ROME -- June 29, 2011- Associated Press

Independent forensic experts are disputing much of the forensic evidence collected against Amanda Knox, saying that some of the DNA traces used to convict the American student and her co-defendant may have been contaminated.[

[. . . ] The court-appointed experts said in a report Wednesday obtained by The Associated Press that the genetic profile attributed to Kercher is "unreliable" and that results may have been contaminated on both the blade and bra clasp.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/0...taminated-forensic-experts-say/#ixzz1QfOyjIrl

DNA experts raise doubts over Amanda Knox evidence
DNA experts have raised doubts about the evidence that helped convict US student Amanda Knox for the murder of her British room-mate Meredith Kercher in 2007, according to reports.
In a leaked report, experts who have been carrying out tests as part of Knox's appeal against her conviction said they could not be certain that DNA traces found on the presumed murder weapon were in fact those of the victim. "The international procedures for inspection, protocol and collection of evidence were not followed" for both the bra clasp and the knife, they said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8605875/DNA-experts-raise-doubts-over-Amanda-Knox-evidence.html

 

[Allusonz]

Google Translates all and the original PDF conclusion

Think it pretty much says it all


"The other object of expertise, also considered crucial to place the call on the crime scene on Via della Pergola, was the victim's bra clasp on which you would have found the DNA of Raffaele Sollecito. "There is no convincing scientific evidence - expert opinion in writing experts - the alleged presence of cells on the crumbling relic. Moreover, there was an erroneous interpretation of the electrophoretic pattern is autosomal STRs on is that relating to the Y chromosome."

http://translate.google.com/transla...b/sezioni/top10/20110629_155942.shtml&act=url

According to the experts of the Assize Court of Appeal of Perugia, who investigated the murder weapon and the hook of the bra to be worn when Meredith Kercher was killed, "one can not exclude that the results may arise from the effects of environmental contamination and / or contamination arising at any stage of the repertoire and / or manipulation

http://translate.google.com/transla...-sul-coltello-non-e-di-meredith.shtml&act=url


PDF Italian Document Conclusion

http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/documento/23.$plit/C_2_documento_11_file.pdf

 

[SMK]

The experts say in the report filed to the Perugia court on and obtained by The Associated Press that the genetic profile attributed to Kercher is "unreliable" and cannot be attributed with certainty. They said results may have been contaminated on both the blade and bra clasp.
Regarding the blade, the experts said: "We believe that the technical tests are not reliable." The document said the tests did not conform to international standards and procedures. "It cannot be ruled out that the result obtained ... may stem from contamination," said the report's conclusions.
The experts reached a similar conclusion regarding the bra clasp.
The findings are likely to please the defense, which had long maintained DNA traces were inconclusive and that they might have been contaminated when they were collected and analyzed.


From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110629...test-DNA-evidence-at-Knox-trial#ixzz1QfzHsAds