Missing Fort Worth Three- Must Read [Archive] - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

emma l

08-12-2004, 12:40 PM

This case is fascinating to me. I would love peoples thoughts on what on earth is going on..........I hope it hasn't already been posted! if it has please just ignore me.

Basic story- 3 girls, one 9 years old (Tracey Ann Moseley) doe link http://doenetwork.us/cases/59dftx.html

Rachel Trilica (17 years old) Doe link http://doenetwork.us/cases/57dftx.html

and Lisa Renne Wilson (14 years old) Doe link http://doenetwork.us/cases/58dftx.html

Went to the mall in Fort Worth, December 1974 and never came back..............

Read the links for more info but a letter was received some time after from Rachel stating they were "getting away for a while" and would be back in a week. They never re-appeared.

This would be fairly straight forward missing persons case but Rachel's brother states that
Snip........
"............. several "credible witnesses" say they've spotted Rachel since the disappearance. "One was in 1998 around Christmas," he says.
Rusty and James believe that Rachel visits Fort Worth during the Christmas season each year. James is careful with his words, but he maintains that someone is "shrouding and manufacturing evidence" in what he says was at first an effort to keep the two older girls away. Now he thinks only Rachel survives. He is evasive about what he thinks happened or who he believes can be held accountable.
"I believe that that person facilitates and maintains an effort to keep Rachel Arnold [Trlica] away from Fort Worth. I believe that Renee Wilson is not alive. . . . I believe that something dreadfully wrong, and probably a fatality, occurred involving Julie Ann Moseley," he says"
Snip..................
This is from the website he's set up- and he's announced he's hired a private investigator and a personal $25,000 reward Here's the link to his site....................
http://www.missingtrio.com/TRIO/index.htm

It infers on the website that Rachel's sister knows what happened. Actually its a v good site. Anyway I'd be interested to hear what you all think........ What could keep a grown woman (as she now would be) away from her home and family? Is her brother suggesting she is being held captive? V confusing and haunting. It would be great to shed some light onto this for their families.

I'm in the UK, so I probably won't pick up your replies till the morning.

messiecake

08-12-2004, 07:40 PM

Emma,
OMG! What a fascinating case!! Its also quite curious how the youngest missing girl's (Tracey) older sister Debra was involved with Rachael's husband AND was with him when the letter arrived (and why won't Debra take a polygraph like the families asked her too?).

I know theres unfortunately so many tragic missing cases but this seems to have alot of elements that seem tailor made for media and Im surprised it hasnt gotten more coverage.

Thank you for sharing this Emma! I know Im now "hooked" on this case too!

emma l

08-13-2004, 07:30 AM

Hi Messiecake!

Thanks for posting.......it is weird that this hasn't gotten more media coverage.... the private investigator says that he received anonymous death threats when he tried to create more publicity.......V weird. I also noticed that on the Doe website it states that Rachel's brother (James?) believes that Rachel and Lisa are still alive. Yet on the brothers website it now states that he believes only Rachel survives.........I wonder if Doe made a mistake or whether James believes that Lisa died recently? What does he think she died of I wonder? I've half a mind to mail him through his site and invite him to post.........Bit nervous though!

The letter that Rachel's husband received shortly after their disappearance can only mean 1 of 2 things as far as I'm concerned:
1) It really was sent by Rachel and they decided to dissapear(They then stayed away or met with foul play)

Or

2) The letter is fake and someone who Rachel knew is responsible for their disappearance.

Apparently the handwriting tests were inconclusive..............

Theres no other possible explanations. I don't know of many multiple murderers who go around copying their victims handwriting and sending letters to their victims families to cover their tracks! By definition they're mad and don't care about the victims as "people" at all. It has to be someone they knew- this is the most likely explanation.

What's most interesting is that James believes Rachel is being kept away now. I've been thinking about this and I wonder if he believes that the person responsible has manufactured evidence AGAINST Rachel? This would make sense.Of course the lack of a polygraph test is v v interesting,but not conclusive.

Then again Sherlock Holmes said something like "When you discount the perpostorous and the ridiculous, you are left with the obvious.......and this can be the only explantion"!

Am hooked on the case! Let me know if you come up with anything. Would love to think that at least one of the missing girls is still alive.

messiecake

08-13-2004, 10:31 AM

Emma,
I think contacting him is a great idea! Im not sure just how much info he'd be willing to share(if any) but at worst he could just decline-nothing ventured,nothing gained!! If anything I think he'd welcome the oppertunity to get attention for this case.

In my unprofessional opinion it seems Rachael is indeed the crux of this mystery as it was(supposedly) only her who has since made contact and I think she had some familarity with the person(s) who led the girls away from the mall as the varying ages of the girls (as well as the fact there were 3 of them) would rule out a random abduction
I wonder who invited Tracey(the youngest girl)? I think whoever planned this did not figure on her being there with Rachael.

Rachael is curious herself as she was married and only 17.Although I was married quite young myself I find this interesting and usually an indicator of having led a hard life esp.since she was married to an older divorced man .I wonder if drugs were ever involved?
Has he been polygraphed or questioned ?
Did he and Debra resume their relationship after Rachael "dissapeared"?

James has reason to belive Rachael is alive,why?

We have to try and invite him to the site! This case is a nail-biter!!!

emma l

08-16-2004, 06:57 AM

Messiecake, I think you're def right about whoever did this not counting on the youngest girl (Tracey) being there. But presuming that the relatives knew that she was, if they were involved, why still go ahead with it?

I would def rule out a random abduction. I would guess that it would take more than one man to abduct 3 girls- one of whom was married and so we can assume reasonably street-smart. Also abducters usually go for easy targets- 3 girls , 2 almost adult, are not east targets to abduct from a busy shopping mall. This would mean that they'd have to have accidentally come across a group of men, (or women!) who wanted to abduct both a child and 2 older girls for (presumably) illicit purposes.......it doesn't make any sense...........And of course theres the letter. This virtually rules out a random abduction.

Debra was quite dismissive of her relationship with Rachels husband, but these things have a tendancy to be blown out of all proportion when you're young, so its not impossible that it is somehow related.............

I think that the brother knows more than is on his website and he's waiting for someone to speak up and confirm his suspicions........I feel for Rachel,if she is in fact still alive, whatever hapenned, it would be almost impossible for her to come back now.........Unless she was a totally innocent victim and I get the feeling from what I've read that this might be not be the case.............I wonder if her brother has actually spoken to her? Its not impossible.

I think I'm going to brave it and invite the brother here sometime this week. I'll let you know how I get on!

BethInAK

08-16-2004, 09:10 PM

messiecake

08-17-2004, 08:26 AM

I always had an interest in this case, but never saw the brothers website! thanks for posting it.

One of the things I have noticed - when a child dies or disappears, family seem to need to have someone to blame - to be angry with, and i wonder if thats not whats happening here.

I agree with you in theory but in this case it seems clear at least one of the girls knew their abductor due to the evidence of the letter.

I am totally hooked on this case! If her brother does register here I wonder if we could get this on a "Case of the Month"??

Jeana (DP)

08-17-2004, 02:49 PM

This is a very interesting case indeed. I'd love to be able to talk to someone involved. Hard to believe the 17 year old was married!!! Please do try to get someone to register here and talk to us.

BethInAK

08-19-2004, 01:30 AM

[QUOTE=messiecake]I agree with you in theory but in this case it seems clear at least one of the girls knew their abductor due to the evidence of the letter.
[QUOTE]

you have a point. could the letter be some prank?

KATKAT19691

08-19-2004, 07:14 PM

emma l

08-20-2004, 07:01 AM

Katkat19691,
I'd also sent an email to them so hopefully they should get back to us. I did notice though that the last update on the site was 2002...........I wonder whats going on?

KATKAT19691

08-21-2004, 09:37 AM

Emma, I got a reply to my e-mail from Rusty. He said he could not post here but gave me a phone number to call him if I wanted to talk to him. Did you get a similar reply? Have any ideas on what questions I should ask him. Let me know and I will call him.

Kat

KATKAT19691

08-21-2004, 11:45 AM

I called the number he e-mailed me and I got voice mail. It was strange because I got a second e-mail from him asking me to call now, and I did but only got voice mail wonder why he did not answer. I left my number so maybe he will call me back.
I don't know what all he will let me post but I will post as much as I can. I will respect what he wants to have out here, and what he does not, so I hope he is willing to give more details for us. There does not seem to be any details at all. I have searched and other than the websites already listed above I have found nothing. Did anyone find anything else that might be helpful or give us more clues.

I too think it is strange that the sister will not take lie detector and the relationship she had with her sisters husband. Also, the death threats and the first pi destroying all his files what is up with that? There has to be a lot more to this story. Stay tuned.

Will keep ya posted!

Kat

emma l

08-23-2004, 07:08 AM

Hey kitkat19691,
Sorry my computers been down, so I couldnt post. Its weird that he would rather you rang him than he posted here, maybe he hasn't the time.
I've Private Messaged you anyway..............Not sure if I'd have the guts to actually ring him.Let me know how it goes!

Jeana (DP)

08-23-2004, 10:54 AM

I sent an e-mail to the two e-mail address on the website maybe we will hear from them soon. I remember this case from when I was a kid and overheard parents talking and stuff. We use to go to Denton Texas to visit relatives and was there during this time. I have not heard a word over the years so it is strange that there was never any media. I wonder why?

Kat, its not that unusual for back then. My sister disappeared in 1984 and there were only about a dozen newspaper articles in total. There was no internet then, no CSI, no television shows like America's Most Wanted and no instant news like there is now. There were no victim's rights or psychological counsellors that they send to your house. And there was definately no "how to" kit to tell you how to deal with the media, the "psychics," or all the freaks calling in "helpful tips."

emma l

08-25-2004, 08:11 AM

Jeana, I'm sorry about your sister. I hope you were able to get some closure. It is unbelievable that before John Walsh and his son Adam there wasn't even an official missing persons database. Did you know that here in the UK - the national missing persons/childrens network (the same as you have over there-NCMEC) only went on-line about a month ago? Its ridiculous that this situation is not taken more seriously- although obviously some progress has been made. We have a little boy here called David Entwistle- an 8 year old who went missing last year. I had heard so little about him that I thought he had been found. I have not seen one article, or news slot about him in over 6 months.

The scale of missing people is nothing in the UK compared to the US, even considering the small population. There are only 48 registered missing children here in the UK- and most of them are runaways (although they obviously may still be in danger). In the US there are a whopping 1854 offical missing children(statistics from the NCMEC site).........Considering the difference in statistics you'd think that a missing child would get huge publicity here in the UK- but it just doesn't happen.Theres something wrong somewhere.

People don't just "vanish". Somebody, or something is responsible for their disappearance..

Heres little Daniels link. I think of him all the time.

http://www.missingkids.co.uk/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=280795&orgPrefix=UK41&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_GB&searchLang=en_GB

amandab

08-25-2004, 02:26 PM

Hi Emma-

I remember reading about Daniel on the BBC web site when he first went missing...my memory is a little fuzzy, but is he the little boy that they think may have fallen into a river?

My apologies if I've gotten him confused with someone else....

-Amanda

Jeana (DP)

08-25-2004, 03:52 PM

Jeana, I'm sorry about your sister. I hope you were able to get some closure.

Emma, I understand what you're trying to say, but there is no such thing as "Closure." It doesn't exist. Even if they arrest my sister's murderer and execute him, my family wouldn't have anything near closure.

emma l

08-26-2004, 06:30 AM

Jeana, I have PM'd you..................

Amandab, Yes, thats Daniel. They suspected he might have fallen in to the river but since they haven't found his body yet and its not a particulary fast-moving river I think they might be starting to suspect otherwise.........I don't know which is worse for his poor family.....................

LillyRush

09-05-2004, 07:15 AM

Hi there,

I have read about this case before and I too find it interesting as well as puzzling that nothing was ever solved.

Just wanted to comment on a couple of things that have been previously written. The youngest girl's name is Julie (9 yr. old), not Tracey. There are a couple of posts where you did say Julie but then went back to using Tracey repeatedly. I was just wondering whether you read that somewhere or were just getting a name mixed up? There is no person named Tracey that I've ever read of being involved in this case. I believe the oldest two were the only ones that went by a name other than their first name, Lise Renee Wilson and Mary Rachel Trlica both went by their middle names (Renee and Rachel, of course). Not a major deal but I just wanted to mention that about the youngest one's name.

Something else that I've read and just wanted to clear up, is the part about Debra being the sister of the youngest girl and that she had an affair with Rachel's husband. Debra is actually Rachel's (the oldest girl) sister. She had dated Rachel's husband *before* the two of them got married and there was speculation about them having an affair during Rachel's marriage. Debra was living in the house with Rachel and the husband at the time which also made the situation more awkward. So, I'm not sure but maybe you are getting that situation mixed up with the fact that the youngest girl's (Julie's) *brother* was dating *Renee* (the middle aged girl, if you will).

That leads me to how Julie ended up going on the mall-outing. Renee was visiting her grandmother who lived across from Julie's family and they were friendly with each other because Julie's older brother was dating Renee. Basically it was just that Julie, as many young kids her age do, was hanging out with the cool older kids (brother's girlfriend) and when Renee's friend (Rachel) came over to take her to the mall Julie wanted to tag along. She was just pretty much an innocent victim and if this was pre-planned she was probably not expected to be there, you are right about that. All of this information is available on the missing trio website that you've already cited but I just wanted to clear up the discrepencies in the re-telling of the story for public informational purposes. :cool:

messiecake

09-05-2004, 06:52 PM

Any news on Rusty?

emma l

09-06-2004, 10:55 AM

Messiecake, I haven't heard anything on Rusty I'm afraid. I have emailed him but didnt get a reply. Kat emailed him and he replied and asked her to call- which she did, but no answer as yet.

Lillyrush, thats interesting- the youngest girls name IS Julie but I read several times that it was Tracey. What a weird mistake. I (typically) can't find any of the links now. Isn't that weird though?
I was aware of that Debra dated Rachels husband BEFORE they were together- maybe that didn't come across clearly..........

Anyway, thanks for the corrections. :D

messiecake

09-06-2004, 11:14 AM

Emma,

I too read it written as both Julie and Tracey but it hardly matters as I think we all know what it was we were saying ...............oh well.

I hope Kat hears SOMETHING!

KATKAT19691

09-07-2004, 12:38 AM

The link that is provided in the first post leads to a site that calls her Julie and show her aged photos. I think I have read a few that calls her Tracey also, so don't feel bad. I have never been able to actually speak with Rusty, he tried to call me a few times while I was at work, and I tried him but only got voice mail so no luck. Will let ya'll know if I ever get to speak with him.
http://doenetwork.us/cases/59dftx.html
Kat
IMO

LillyRush

09-07-2004, 05:33 AM

The only reason I asked where you read that her name was something different than Julie is because if there is a website that is stating her name as being Tracey then they should probably be contacted, since they are wrong. I suppose it doesn't matter anyway since suddenly no one remembers where it was that you read it that way. The missing trio website is put together by family members of the victims so I am sure that if their loved ones went by alternate names it would be written as such there and in the interview with Julie's mother (which is also posted there). The doe network is fine but definitely not as comprehensive as it's former sister website, the missing person's cold case network, used to be. Also, I was not stating that you did not know that Debra dated Rachel's husband before they got married. If you look back you will see that I was clarifying information on a post that said that the 'youngest girl's' (Julie's) older sister was Debra and that that was some ironic twist to how she was connected to the case, which is not how it was and the correct info is in my post above..the same information is on the missing trio website but was not being re-told here in the same way it was written there. I certainly did not mean to put you on the spot but since this seems to be a place where people go to gather information on cases details large and small pretty much matter, otherwise you have people doing searches for the wrong thing or person and that just kind of defeats the purpose of looking further into these cases in the first place. There is a high # of views to this thread, outside of the smaller conversation within it, so it could only stand to benefit the case in the long run (imo) for people to get the clearest pictures of the case circumstances. That is all.

KATKAT19691

09-07-2004, 09:55 PM

I was just wondering, what was the relationship between the husband and the sister after the girls went missing, did they get together????

Kat
IMO

emma l

09-08-2004, 06:18 AM

As far as I know it was just platonic. They never got back together...........

Richard

09-15-2004, 12:33 PM

The case of the three girls who disappeared from Seminary South Shopping Center in Fort Worth on 23 December 1974 is indeed an intriguing and unusual one. Multiple abductions by strangers are quite rare, and are therefore outside the usual patterns. This case, however, bears a number of striking similarities to another one which occurred in Maryland only three months later.
These three Fort Worth girls; Julie Ann Moseley (9), Mary Rachel Trlica (17), and Lisa Renee Wilson (14) all disappeared two days before Christmas from a shopping center.
In Wheaton Maryland, a few days before Easter on 25 March 1975, the Lyon Sisters, Sheila and Kate disappeared from a shopping center. They too are still missing.
While these cases have never been connected by any evidence (there simply isn't much evidence in either case), they stand out as very rare occurances of multiple abduction, so close together in time and circumstance.

Jeana (DP)

09-15-2004, 12:37 PM

Very much indeed Richard. Welcome to Websleuths. Do you have a link to any stories about this other case?

emma l

09-15-2004, 12:41 PM

Goodness you're right. Welcome Richard!! I have read about that abduction loads of times and didn't connect them. I am a RUBBISH detective. Here we are Jeana............

Shelia and Katherine disappeared from Wheaton, Maryland on March 25 1975. There was a suspicious man who was never seen again. He was asking people for their comments and had a micro-phone. He could have used this ploy before- easily.He never came forward as a witnesss, and there was loads of publicity, so he is the prime suspect.

They were possibly seen April 7th bound and gagged in the back of a van.
"..................When the driver spotted a witness tailing him, he ran a red light and sped west on Route 234 towards Interstate 66 in Virginia. The station wagon had Maryland license plates with the possible combination "DMT-6**." The last two numbers are unknown due to the bending of the car's plate. The known combination was issued in Cumberland, Hagerstown and Baltimore, Maryland at the time. A search for matching plate numbers failed to produce any information.".............snip This is from the links below.........

Sheila http://doenetwork.us/cases/64dfmd.html 12 years old

Katherine http://doenetwork.us/cases/65dfmd.html 10 years old.

I wonder........................Can anyone else come up with other connections? between these girls and the fort worth girls? I'm gonna search and post tommorrow.

I also found this link with some theories and a mention of a "ransom note". I wonder why this is mentioned on "Doe" links?
http://forthelost.bravepages.com/lyon.html

Their poor families, imagine losing both of your children at once.

Richard

09-15-2004, 12:49 PM

Here are a couple of links to stories about the Lyon Sisters Case:
I wrote the story which appears in the Doe Network case files, and it has been copied many times by other websites. The Montgomery County Police of Maryland have this as an active and open case.

Sheila Lyon link: Click here: The Doe Network: Case File 64DFMD

Katherine Lyon link: Click here: The Doe Network: Case File 65DFMD

Maryland State Police website: Click here: Maryland Department of State Police

Jeana (DP)

09-15-2004, 01:49 PM

Thanks Emma and Richard!! Lots to catch up on.

emma l

10-18-2004, 06:08 AM

Just thought I'd bump this cause its such an interesting case. Also with Christmas coming up it will be 30 years this year since this happened and I wonder if that might jog someone memory? Maybe they'll be some kind of memorial?

Still haven't been able to get anymore information at all...................

T-Rex

11-16-2004, 08:51 PM

That is an interesting case. What about this? The girls bump into someone they know. They go out to his van with him to get high. The little girl has a fatal reaction, and dies. They hide her body. The friend convinces them to go away while he figures out what to do. He sends the note to Rachel's husband to buy time. But knowing that he will be in trouble if they ever tell what happened, he convinces them they will be arrested and go to jail if they come back. Maybe the middle girl eventually decides to come back anyway, so he kills her. Now he has that much more to blackmail Rachel with to keep her away.

emma l

11-23-2004, 03:18 PM

T-rex!! I am impressed with your theory! I wonder if any of them had a history of drug abuse? How did you come up with such an interesting theory? I guess if Rachel is still alive she would probably have to have a pretty good reason not to contact anyone after ths long. Blackmail is as good as any..............

You'e not the murderer :laugh: :eek: :) are you?! (I know thats a crazy question but I had a compusion to ask!!)

Richard

11-27-2004, 09:40 PM

It will be the 30 year anniversary of the disappearance of these three girls. There are probably many theories about how or why they disappeared, but in the end, it is still a mystery. I would be somewhat skeptical about letters, phone calls, or other after-the-fact clues because of the tendency for hoaxers to try and mess with the case. This has happened in almost all high profile cases. My personal feeling is that this was an abduction by more than one kidnapper (maybe three), probably using a cargo van parked near the victims' car. I doubt that the kidnappers knew the girls, because if they were going for someone specific, they would have waited for just that one person. More likely they were looking for victims of opportunity, and took the girls when they felt no one was watching.

LillyRush

11-30-2004, 03:31 PM

I think the letter was placed in the mailbox by Rachel's sister.

emma l

12-07-2004, 06:06 AM

It could well have been- anythings possible!!

2sisters

12-24-2004, 10:18 AM

It has been 30 years they have been missing. It is sad that their families have spent the past 30 years not knowing what happened to them.

sharon25

05-19-2005, 07:54 PM

Just came across these three missing girls while I was looking through the Texas Department of Public Safety.

Any news?

KatherineQ

05-19-2005, 09:06 PM

has the 'missingtrio' site been disabled?

I can't make it load.

Thanks -

Yeah,me

05-19-2005, 11:26 PM

I couldn't get into it either. I guess they closed it down?:(

blueclouds

05-19-2005, 11:46 PM

The site is archived though. Try this:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040203183628/missingtrio.com/TRIO/index.htm

If the above link doesn't work, let me know.

KatherineQ

05-20-2005, 03:41 PM

Thanks Blueclouds.

Very interesting.

mysteriew

05-20-2005, 05:36 PM

The letter that Rachel's husband received shortly after their disappearance can only mean 1 of 2 things as far as I'm concerned:
1) It really was sent by Rachel and they decided to dissapear(They then stayed away or met with foul play)

Or

2) The letter is fake and someone who Rachel knew is responsible for their disappearance.

Apparently the handwriting tests were inconclusive..............

Theres no other possible explanations. I don't know of many multiple murderers who go around copying their victims handwriting and sending letters to their victims families to cover their tracks! By definition they're mad and don't care about the victims as "people" at all. It has to be someone they knew- this is the most likely explanation.

.

While is it unusual for a multiple murderer to write letters to the family that purports to be from the victim, it is not unknown. John E. Robinson the Internet Slavemaster did it in his 1984/85 murders (link to story: http://www.mayhem.net/Crime/robinson.html)
In a recent cold case in my area the suspected murderer has approached the victim's father a couple of times and asked him if he had heard from his dau. and has told stories of how he has heard of the woman living in an area and being on drugs. Everyone thought the woman had run away, no one knew she had been murdered, because her body had not been found yet. Because she was thought to be alive and missing voluntarily, no one looked for her.
So the purpose of this type of communication seems to be to keep the confusion on what exactly happened, and to provide misdirection in any investigation.

Yeah,me

05-26-2005, 03:12 PM

http://www.nbc5i.com/news/4534362/detail.html

Wonder if this guy could be connected to the case in any way?

Richard

05-27-2005, 08:18 AM

http://www.nbc5i.com/news/4534362/detail.html

Wonder if this guy could be connected to the case in any way?
I doubt it. The story is about Murderer Curtis Don Brown who has been in prison since killing a nurse in her home in 1986. Recent DNA evidence has linked him to the murder of another woman in Fort Worth in 1985, and police have now opened 18 other cold cases which he may have been involved in - all from the early 1980's.

Brown is now 46 years old and would have been only 15 or 16 when the three girls disappeared from the shopping center. Such an abduction of three young girls does not seem to fit his MO. It is also doubtful if other elements of evidence would fit Brown.

It would be interesting to know where he was at the time. Sometimes Inmate locators list previous incarcerations and convictions. Maybe such a website could provide an answer to his whereabouts and activities in December 1974.

Yeah,me

05-27-2005, 01:19 PM

Ohhhh, for some reason I had it in my mind that their dissapearance happened in 1979......which wouldn't have been too much of a stretch, but 1974 is a much different story. Thanks for responding.

CaliKid

06-02-2005, 04:17 AM

What intrigues me about this case is that several people close to it suspect that at least one of the girls is still alive, or at least was several years ago. I read up on it at the time, but I've forgotten a lot too.

vanillasky

09-27-2005, 07:22 PM

Bump :)

The site is functional now... http://www.missingtrio.com

Mr. E

09-28-2005, 12:40 PM

Richard

09-28-2005, 02:46 PM

I wonder what evidence they have to make them suspect that at least one girl is still alive? 30 years is a long time to go without making any kind of contact, even if the reason you disappeared was something awful.

Still, I suppose it has happened. Laurie Davern was missing for 20-some years, wasn't she? And she just left voluntarily.

I'm inclined to agree with T-Rex, who suggested earlier a scenario in which the youngest girl died and the others left to hide that fact. I feel like the child, at least, would not leave so easily from her home and not return for 30 years.
As you indicate, such a scenario is possible, but is it really all that probable? We are talking about three young girls here, not secret agents or con artists who are experienced at disappearing and assuming new identities.

The far more likely scenario is that all three girls were abducted by a person or persons who subsequently killed them. While one or more may have been kept alive for some period of time after that fateful day, it would probably have been at the whim of the abductor, rather than other circumstances.

Many well publicized cases are plagued with hoaxes perpetrated by individuals who want to get into the act in some manner. Crank callers, false confessions, false leads to police (whether intentionally false, or sincere persons who are only mistaken, or simply coincidences) are all part of what goes on during open investigations.

Marilynilpa

10-27-2005, 02:30 PM

Just bumping this to the top.

2sisters

11-29-2005, 07:07 PM

Marilynilpa

11-30-2005, 09:45 AM

I'm bumping this with the 31st anniversary of their dissapearances coming up.
Rachel would be/will be 48, Lisa 45, and Julie 40. Someone out there knows what happened to them, their families have spent too many holidays without them. They deserve to know where they are.
I'm fairly certain someone knows what happened to them, but without any evidence the police can't do anything about it.

I was about 12 or 13 when this happened, and lived in Dallas, Texas. My parents, and those of my friends, didn't want us venturing very far from home after that. We had a small shopping center near our house, and my friends and I used to walk up there and go to the drug store and the five & dime, but after this happened, we were forbidden to go there unless a parent went along.

Up until the time these three girls disappeared, my parents always felt it was pretty safe to let me go places with my friends. I guess they believed there was "safety in numbers". But when three girls were abducted together, that changed everything.:(

mjak

11-30-2005, 11:28 AM

Marilynilpa

11-30-2005, 02:06 PM

This is a case that I find so sad. As much as I would like to think one of the girls could be alive I find that hard to believe. The girls car was found right were they said they were going. In the car were items they had picked up from another store that had been on layway for one of the girls. This supports they went and were doing exactly what they said they were doing. If the older girls had other plans, such as doing drugs or running away I don't think they would have taken 9 year old Julie Ann with them. Had an x boyfriend or other known person decided to do something to one of the girls I find it unlikly he/she would choose to do it when that person is out with two other people. I think Richards scinerio "The far more likely scenario is that all three girls were abducted by a person or persons who subsequently killed them." is far more likley. I would be curious if there are records of other missing females at that time in Texas or unsolved and unexplained murders of females. What a sad case.

mjak
There has long been speculation that the sister of one of the missing girls was involved. She denies it, of course, and obviously the police don't have any evidence to prove otherwise. From what I've read, she and her family don't have a good relationship. Whether that came about as a result of this tragedy, or whether it was always that way is unknown.

I know there have been other cases of girls missing from shopping areas, but I don't know if those disappearances occurred in Texas or not.

mjak

11-30-2005, 06:31 PM

2sisters

11-30-2005, 07:20 PM

They had to have left with someone they knew and I'd be curious about her sisters whereabouts that day. A stranger abduction seems unlikely seeing as there were 3 of them. It doesn't seem like on opportunistic person would try for 3 girls so there would need to be more than one abductor If it were a stranger and a group of girls getting abducted by another group of people would draw alot attention in theory. To me it seems that someone they all know has the answers to where they are and what happened to them.

Marilynilpa

12-01-2005, 10:42 AM

I find it hard to believe that the Sister of one of the girls could be responsible for the dissapearnce of all three. I just can't come up with a motivation for her to have gotten rid of all three girls. Why would she have done something to an innocent 9 year old child? the cumstances surrounding the dissapearnce just does not add up to me as a crime of jelousy or sisterly foul play. Sounds more like an opportunistic abduction situation to me.

mjak
The sister's name is Debra. Here is a snippet about her:

Debra is more candid. "I know he [her brother] blames me. I know he thinks I had something to do with it. . . . Rusty thinks this letter that Tommy got the next day - he thinks I wrote it. . . . I didn't write this letter. I don't know who did. I don't know what happened to my sister. Maybe white slavery. That's the only thing that makes sense to me," she says. "I have nothing to hide."

Link: http://www.missingtrio.com/TRIO/

mjak

12-01-2005, 10:58 AM

A stranger or two strangers with a gun would probalby not have much of a problem getting two teenagers and a 9 year old to get into a van or car with them.

mjak

Marilynilpa

12-01-2005, 11:34 AM

A stranger or two strangers with a gun would probalby not have much of a problem getting two teenagers and a 9 year old to get into a van or car with them.

mjakThat's true, but please keep in mind that this was a busy shopping center, and the sight of one or two strangers armed with a gun would probably have gotten someone's attention. You know how it is when a mall is crowded during the Christmas shopping season, and you drive slowly through the parking lot trying to find a place to park. You are looking at every car you approach to see if anyone is getting ready to leave. So it just doesn't seem likely, to me, that these three girls were abducted in that manner.

mysteriew

12-02-2005, 06:37 PM

But a person sitting in a vehicle if discreet, could show gun or knife to the girls, and not draw others attention if the girls didn't put up an outcry. Or if they had a good story, they may have convinced the girls to get into the vehcile.

Richard

12-02-2005, 11:08 PM

This discussion is very similar to one on the thread for the Lyon Sisters, Sheila and Kate, who went missing from a Wheaton, Maryland Shopping Center exactly three months after the three girls from Fort Worth disappeared. None of those girls has been found. I wonder if there was any connection, or if the first incident might have provided the idea for the later one.

Beyond Belief

01-05-2006, 09:53 PM

I think this was a Van abduction type that happened in the parking lot. Perhaps parked next to them. Two guys grab two and the third tries to help the others, you have all three, in the van, held at gunpoint or knife and drive away. I am not going to dwell on the what happened next theory. The Maryland girls probably were approached when they were walking away from the mall by the man they had made friends with the microphone. He may have talked them into getting in the car. Kids were alot more naive in the 70's than they are now.

ssiegmund

03-30-2006, 05:19 PM

I grew up in Fort Worth and am the same age Rachel would have been, so I've always been interested in this case.

The letter arrived in the mail box early the next morning, almost too quickly to have been delivered by the USPS. It was the only thing in the box. I have never heard if there was more mail delivered at the house later that day. It did have a postmark and police have determined it was mailed from Fort Worth. It arrived too quickly to be a cruel hoax, but could have been written by the perpetrator, or Rachel could have been forced to write it. One source indicates it was written by a right handed person and Rachel was left handed, but tests were inconclusive. It addressed her husband as Thomas even though she called him Tommy, and, if written by Rachel, could have been used to signal distress. I don't think Rachel wrote it of her own free will. If two girls decide to split for Houston for the weekend, would they really take a 9 year old girl with them? And obviously they were with someone else, because of course if they went by themselves, they would have taken their own car. They were with someone else, and the letter was written to make it look like they were with that person by choice, and yet Rachel did not name the person or even say they went with someone else. "We (as in, the three of us) went to Houston".

But the bottom line is, why does Rusty Arnold think his sister Debra wrote the letter? Okay, Debra went out with Tommy before Tommy and Rachel got married. So Debra wakes up one morning and decides to kill Rachel and two other people? She picks them up at the mall, takes them off and kills them, and there's no evidence to be found? An 18 year old girl?

In a radio interview, which can be found on his website, Rusty says Debra took a polygraph which indicates she may have had knowledge of what happened that day. He gives no details. Why not? How do we know this is true and not simply his interpretation? To my knowledge, the finding that Debra failed the polygraph was never reported in the papers, or apparently further investigated by police.

Rusty believes that Rachel is still alive, is being kept away by unseen forces, and that she visits Fort Worth every Christmas. What does he base this belief on? He has never said. I'd be curious to know.

The police have said the girls probably left with someone they trusted. A witness came forward and said he saw the three girls in a mall security truck, with the security guard, at about 11 pm. I have problems with this. The mall would have been long closed even at Christmastime, and if the girls had car problems or any other problems other than being abducted, they would have called their parents or Rachel's husband hours earlier; they were expected home by dark.

This case has torn the families involved apart and it is very sad. I understand they need some closure but I think Rusty needs to accept that his sister is gone.

Stella

03-30-2006, 11:18 PM

I'm from the Metroplex and remember this case well. Seems to me a few people connected to this case aren't telling all they know. Why not? And why did that first PI have all his records pertaining to the case destroyed? What did he find out that he didn't want anyone else to know? Sure would like to see this one solved.

2sisters

12-04-2006, 01:24 PM

Bumping for the 3 girls. It will be 32 years that they have been gone.

2sisters

12-14-2006, 05:05 PM

Bumping this again. Someone knows something. Someone has information on this and they are thinking about this case right now. Please come forward.

Gina_M

12-15-2006, 06:25 AM

Thanks for bumping this up. This is the first time I've read about this case. I keep coming back to the fact that this happened right before Christmas, and earlier in the thread it was being compared to another case where two girls disappeared right before Easter. Could there be some sort of cult involved? I know it may sound far fetched but we don't have much to go on here.

Gina_M

09-18-2007, 02:13 AM

*bump*

No new info on this? Looking back at my cult idea it seems kind of silly. Could just be that people tend to go to malls a lot during the holidays.

Teresa Larson

09-18-2007, 04:50 AM

I think the first P.I knew something and he was getting too close for comfort (for somebody involved in this case) I doubt he commited suicide and asked for his records to be destroyed. I think it was made to look like that. I think it was somebody right there that did something to those 3 girls. I also think it's very strange that the brother claims he has had contact from somebody IF that is the case then he knows what happened

froggierintexas

09-18-2007, 05:51 AM

What happened to the security guard that was at the mall? Or guards? Did any of them go on to be police officers?

joefriday

09-18-2007, 01:31 PM

Richard Said:

"Many well publicized cases are plagued with hoaxes perpetrated by individuals who want to get into the act in some manner. Crank callers, false confessions, false leads to police (whether intentionally false, or sincere persons who are only mistaken, or simply coincidences) are all part of what goes on during open investigations."

This is too true. The copy cat comment re the Lyon Case in Md is interesting, Rich. Please however, spare me the TRM. I think that's a red herring, now, looking back.

Jdee

09-18-2007, 06:43 PM

I grew up in Fort Worth and am the same age as one of the girls. I also went to the same shopping center many times growing up. I was there around the time this happened.
A couple of years ago I recalled something from the time about one of my visits to this outdoor mall with a friend where we were followed and approached by a man. The guy reached out for my arm at one point as I passed him. To cut to the chase here... I wrote the brother of the girl that has the website about my incident a couple of years ago. It may not have been connected at all but who knows? The guy never wrote back. I find it odd too that a couple of people here tried to call him at his request and he never answered the phone even though he told them to call.
Makes me wonder about this brother...
If it were me and if I really wanted help I would have emailed anyone back that might possibly have information about that time and I would have answered my phone if I told someone to please call me about this case.

Gina_M

09-18-2007, 11:40 PM

Updated Doe Network links (since they changed from dot us to dot org)

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/59dftx.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/58dftx.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/57dftx.html

Charley Project links:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/moseley_julie.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/wilson_lisa.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/trlica_mary.html

I think the letter is strange. How did it arrive so quickly, the very next morning? Did it really come through the post office, or was the postmark fake? At first I thought it could have been mailed ahead of time, but it mentions the car being in Sears parking lot. If they left of their own accord, why not take the car? I know hitchhiking was more common back then, but if you have a car, why not take it with you. And if they really wanted to get away for a week, why right during the Christmas holidays? It must have been an abduction...but that letter really bugs me.

Gina_M

09-19-2007, 12:37 AM

I was just reading about this in another forum. One of the members of that forum has spoken with Rusty. An interesting bit of info I hadn't seen mentioned anywhere else, is that the three girls went to the mall early in the morning, then came back at noon so that Rachel could return her stepson to his mother (Tommy's ex-wife). And then, supposedly, they returned to the mall. Other interesting ideas over there such as maybe the perp found Rachel's driver's license or a piece of mail to obtain Tommy's name and their address, which would explain why there was no letter from the other girls, since they probably wouldn't have any kind of ID at that age. But someone else pointed out that the letter was signed "Rachel", which was actually her middle name. So either it was written by someone who knew she went by her middle name, or by Rachel herself.

Interesting reading...
http://s12.invisionfree.com/unsolvedcasecenter/index.php?showtopic=139

froggierintexas

09-19-2007, 01:02 AM

I guess, if we are speculating, I will add my two cents. While, it is possible for more than one person, child to be abducted at once and it is possible the hubby and sis did it, I am leaning more toward, they decided to go hang out and 'party' with someone and something happened to the littlest one and the two girls booked it out of town and never looked back. Purely out of fear, even if they weren't the ones that caused the harm. But then I watch a lot of movies.

Jdee

09-19-2007, 11:47 AM

Teresa Larson

09-19-2007, 09:26 PM

I don't buy that they booked it out of town. They would have had to just about live on the streets because if they had any help that person would by now have come forward. I think they were abducted in that parking lot. They were probably lured into a vehicle with the promise of smoking some pot which was big back then. The perp probably drove them out somewhere isoloated and you can guess the rest. Knowing Rachel went by Rachel would not have been that hard to figure out. He could have just asked their names or one of the other girls mentioned it in the ride. The letter was probably written by Rachel under duress to give the guy an alibi if the LE ever looked his way. I do not beleive any family member was involved here.

IMO I highly doubt they left to go and smoke weed with someone they didn't know. I am sure it was a friend or family member that killed them That's why they went along willingly with who ever showed up at the mall parking lot If there would have been a struggle someone would have seen it and I also think the younger girl would have ran away from a struggle if she was able to as I said before I also believe somebody killed the P.I because he was getting to close to solving the case. What reason would he of had to have the records destroyed? I am sure he wanted the case solved. I work for a P.I friend periodically They become attached to their cases and solving it

Meyahna

09-19-2007, 10:27 PM

Yes, I believe the same. I think Rachel's sister has sthg to do with it. I didn't know a PI was killed.

Teresa Larson

09-20-2007, 02:21 AM

Yes, I believe the same. I think Rachel's sister has sthg to do with it. I didn't know a PI was killed.

Yes the P.I. working on this case was killed He was working very hard on getting it solved They said he commited suicide and wanted the records concerning this case destroyed I really doubt he wanted that done. There is more to the story here trust me!!

Meyahna

09-20-2007, 04:38 AM

That's sad. He could have committed suicide but unless he thought all his theories were stupid that's strange he wanted all his work detroyed.

Gina_M

09-22-2007, 06:21 PM

Yeah, that does sound strange. From the Missing Trio website, "Swaim died in 1979 of what was said to be a drug overdose. The death was ruled a suicide. All his files, including records of this case, were destroyed - just as he had requested."

2sisters

11-23-2007, 05:18 PM

Bumping this up. It has been going on 33 long years, I always think of these girls when the shopping season starts.

kline

11-25-2007, 04:22 AM

What a haunting and facinating case.
Im kind of perplexed that anyone would believe for a second that a nine year old girl would agree to run away with two teen agers ...she had to get permission to go to the shopping center she would have been terrified at such a suggestion.
Conversely if one or both of the teenagers decided to' get away' to Houston why in the world would they drag a 9 year old little girl along?
As for the brother...whatever is going on with him...we have too many of these cases where some family member is muttering ominous non sequitters about conspiracies and inside information that of course... they cant share at this time.
I mean come on.The waters are muddy enough why make it worse?

2sisters

12-07-2007, 12:22 AM

Bumping again!

Gina_M

01-25-2008, 05:38 PM

Bumping again!

gaia227

01-25-2008, 05:48 PM

Thanks Gina - I am glad I found this one. Very baffling indeed.

louisy42445

01-27-2008, 01:38 AM

Was Tommy's ex ever looked at? Did anyone see the girls after they dropped his child off at her house? Jealeousy maybe? In those days I don't think they would be as quick to think a young woman capable of such a thing but as we all know stranger things have happened.

HollywoodBound

01-27-2008, 11:12 AM

I thought jealousy too but taking all three people at once seems unusual.

I wonder if they still have the letter that was mailed or the envelope in particular. If the stamp on it was the licking kind maybe they could DNA test it?

Another possible clue from the letter. It says "sic" which is substitute in correction after "Sear's" on the letter's description:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/trlica_mary.html
I take it the author could not spell Sear's correctly. Most people can spell that one, I wonder if it was someone who always spelled it wrong.

shadowangel

07-30-2008, 07:07 PM

I came across some info pertaining to this case...

As reported in the Galveston Daily News, March 28 1981, Brazoria County sheriff's dep't investigators, along with Ft. Worth police, were searching a swamp near the town of Alvin for human remains. In 1976, an oil rig worker discovered two skulls and a jaw in the area. But, due to what was termed a "bad search", nothing else was recovered at the time. Due to the election of a new sheriff, several cases were being given a second look. LE believed that the skulls may have had something to do with the disappearance of Trlica, Wilson, and Mosely.

During the search on the 28th, human teeth, vertebrae, two pair of girls' pants and a high school drama book were recovered. The remains were sent to the coroner for dental comparison.

On April 5th, 1981, it was reported that the remains belonged to two girls who had disappeared in 1974 from nearby Dickinson, Texas. Georgia Geer, 14, and Brooks Bracewell, 12, had disappeared without a trace in September while on their way to their school bus stop.

The articles then went on to discuss the possibility that 40 other girls had gone missing and been murdered in the area of Brazoria County and the surrounding counties. By the mid-70's, the bodies of 21 girls who had been reported missing in 1971 and 1972 had been found. In 1974 and 1975, an additional 17 were reported missing. Police had developed a (unnamed) suspect in 1971, who was subsequently killed by police in 1972.

The "official" LE story was that there was nothing substantial to link the cases. Unofficially, detectives were reported to say that there had to be something to it...The girls ranged in age from 12 to 21, most being 14 or 15. Almost all shared the same general physical features; thin builds, long, straight light to medium brown hair parted in the middle.
Almost all were found in or very close to water.

Other articles, dated as late as 2002, compiled missing/recovered/unidentifed victim reports from the area. One report stated that since 1971, 21 girls and women had gone missing along the I-45 corridor through the area, and the LE had recovered the remains of 14. This number includes those found in the Calder Rd "killing field", as discussed in another thread here.

kline

08-02-2008, 04:37 AM

40 girls missing or murdered around one county in a five year period ...and LE sees nothing substantial linking the cases.
What utter idiocy.
I cant imagine how this became a twenty odd year old cold case.:furious:

mkath59

08-03-2008, 02:39 PM

Alvin and Ft Worth are almost 300 miles apart

shadowangel

08-03-2008, 04:15 PM

Alvin and Ft Worth are almost 300 miles apart
True...And yet the Ft Worth PD felt there was enough of a possiblity that all the disappearances were related that they sent their officers to Alvin to assist in the search.

Kimberly1

08-04-2008, 11:09 AM

Teen agers running away don't take a nine year old along. They don't leave their running car behind, and they dont spend their available cash on Christmas gifts to leave locked in the trunk of the car they aren't taking. It doesn't make sense.

gaia227

10-09-2008, 03:08 PM

NSC

10-09-2008, 06:29 PM

Bumping.

I wonder if Tommy still has the letter and original envelope. If the envelope was sealed then most likely whoever sent the letter licked the envelope glue to seal it. There is the remote possibility their DNA is still there.

I was thinking the same thing -- it stated the envelope was sealed on the wedsite.

I was thinking, if they are mentioning in this letter that the car is on the upper deck - why would they go anywhere in a car with someone they actually knew??? Wouldn't they just meet them at a mall if it was a casual get together???? The only possibility I can think of is someone they knew came to the mall, claimed an emergency at home and was luring them into a trap. Other than that, maybe they were abducted outside their car on the way out of the mall -- otherwise, it would be strange to get three girls outside of the mall.

Kristin83

10-10-2008, 03:35 PM

Does anyone else find it extremely frusturating that there's not more information/reading on this case? Missingtrio.com is a good read, but that's about all I've ever been able to find.

pie

10-11-2008, 02:06 AM

What is this?

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/~gav/wayfarence/storybcnw.html?spp2

shadowangel

10-11-2008, 08:47 AM

What is this?

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/~gav/wayfarence/storybcnw.html?spp2

It appears to be a part of a "make your own adventure" online game, where the players write the story as they go along. It seems as though someone used Rachel's name as their unsername...Classy. :furious:

danilee

10-26-2008, 02:43 AM

What is this?

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/~gav/wayfarence/storybcnw.html?spp2

WEIRD :confused:

PeaHen80

10-27-2008, 12:19 AM

What is this?

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/~gav/wayfarence/storybcnw.html?spp2

Could someone email the owner of the site to find out profile info on this person? Not sure how all of this works...I am normally a lurker.

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/~gav/wayfarence/welcome.html

Laura_Bean

10-27-2008, 04:29 PM

Check these out and tell me what you all think:::

http://www.doenetwork.org/

Go here and check on these for possible matches

Check out this 20UFNJ file

Does she look a LOT like Rachel Trlica

Laura_Bean

10-27-2008, 09:31 PM

You know something, if the teenagers were planning on running away and the little girl went with them, perhaps they sent the 9 year old home with someone they knew and trusted, and than she never made it there? Like maybe the person they sent her home with was some sicko who tried something and went too far?

Laura_Bean

10-28-2008, 12:39 PM

sorry the file I gave you will not bring it up. So let's do it this way. Go to the link I gave for the doe network. Than go to index to unidentified victims. Once it comes up, go to unidentified victims chronological index. Scroll down by years and find 1988, (this year is NOT when the person died, but rather when a body was found). Go down to Jane Doe's. Click on 20UFNJ from there.

Here is the profile of the girl and photos. I will post the profile.

Unidentified White Female

Discovered on December 10, 1988 in Atlantic Highlands, Monmouth County, New Jersey.
The victim was estimated to have been buried at the location for over 10 years.
The victim was estimated to have died sometime around 1970 - 1975

Vital Statistics

Estimated age: 15 - 20 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'0 - 5'4"; 100 - 120 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Hair and eye color are both undetermined.
Dentals: Available. Decedant had signifigant tooth decay. Gap in the upper central incisors.
Clothing: She was wearing a long-sleeved gray and red nylon laced top; a white bra; brown leather platform sandals, size 6 1/2 with a 2 1/2 inch-high heel; and knee-high white acrylic socks. Items found near her body included a portion of one pink rubber thong-style sandal; and a leather-like shoe or small boot with a picture of a football scene on the side, stitched in red and white.
DNA: Available in Codis

Case History
This victim was discovered off lower Bayside Drive in Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey as a parcel of land was cleared along Sandy Hook Bay.

prd2bokie

10-28-2008, 04:14 PM

I think they look alot alike. She has a distinct mouth and so does the doe.

snowme

10-28-2008, 10:33 PM

Hi Laura_Bean - there are similarities between the picture of Rachel and the drawing of the UF but here's what snagged me... in info for Rachel it mentions a chipped upper front tooth that is not mentioned in the UF's dental description. I do think you hit a good find tho because the time frame this NJ woman would have been from kind of fits. (the description of her platform shoes threw me back to the 70's instantly.) NJ is a long way from TX tho but that's a logical thought and logic often does have a place when chaos is ruling, huh.

For future readers, here's a direct link to the UFNJ case page: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/20ufnj.html

ETA: It just dawned on me, thinking of the clothing/shoe description for the NJ case, I don't recall reading any descriptions anywhere (here or missingtrio.com) with regard to what any of the three Fort Worth girls were wearing (clothes/shoes or jewelry). Have I missed that?

sorry the file I gave you will not bring it up. So let's do it this way. Go to the link I gave for the doe network. Than go to index to unidentified victims. Once it comes up, go to unidentified victims chronological index. Scroll down by years and find 1988, (this year is NOT when the person died, but rather when a body was found). Go down to Jane Doe's. Click on 20UFNJ from there.

Here is the profile of the girl and photos. I will post the profile.

Unidentified White Female

Discovered on December 10, 1988 in Atlantic Highlands, Monmouth County, New Jersey.
The victim was estimated to have been buried at the location for over 10 years.
The victim was estimated to have died sometime around 1970 - 1975

Vital Statistics

Estimated age: 15 - 20 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'0 - 5'4"; 100 - 120 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Hair and eye color are both undetermined.
Dentals: Available. Decedant had signifigant tooth decay. Gap in the upper central incisors.
Clothing: She was wearing a long-sleeved gray and red nylon laced top; a white bra; brown leather platform sandals, size 6 1/2 with a 2 1/2 inch-high heel; and knee-high white acrylic socks. Items found near her body included a portion of one pink rubber thong-style sandal; and a leather-like shoe or small boot with a picture of a football scene on the side, stitched in red and white.
DNA: Available in Codis

Case History
This victim was discovered off lower Bayside Drive in Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey as a parcel of land was cleared along Sandy Hook Bay.

Laura_Bean

10-29-2008, 01:40 PM

The thing is, one says she had a chip in a front tooth. In the other it says a gap in the incisors, which could either mean a missing tooth, OR a partial tooth. So it could fit. I find those two interesting.

Laura_Bean

10-29-2008, 01:42 PM

oh and only one child's parents knew what she was wearing, and it wasn't rachel's. It was the other older girl whose parents knew exactly, and the youngest girl's parents weren't sure either. So, one way to do this would be to call the parents and ask if Rachel owned these clothes if she had worn them in the past, etc. Just a thought.

Laura_Bean

10-29-2008, 01:44 PM

Also, the other older girl was wearing red and white leather sneakers. Found near this girl was a "Leather like shoe or boot with a picture of a football scene in red and white". Interesting, very interesting...

snowme

11-01-2008, 04:52 AM

Oh you're right Laura, there was a bit of a description at doenetwork on Lisa Renee Wilson's clothing. She may also have been wearing that sweet little promise ring given to her that morning by Julie Ann's brother Terry (as per missingtrio.com). The shirt she was wearing may be similar to the one shown here: http://www.stuckinthe70s.com/images/tb0874sweethonesty.jpg Different color but the sweet honesty logo probably was the same. I think my sister had a shirt like that!

Laura_Bean

11-26-2008, 08:57 PM

Thank you for the picture of the shirt.

Stella

12-28-2008, 11:40 PM

Bump. Thirty-four years now. Hope someone solves this before everyone has passed on.

mae

12-29-2008, 04:33 AM

It has been that long? I had thought by now one of them would have contacted a family member.

This cases always confound me. How does this happen? I always hope there will be a break in this one, and these families find out what happened to these girls.

snowme

12-30-2008, 03:44 AM

Sadly, I don't think any of the three of them are alive to contact the family members. But it does confound me too... no traces to confirm anything, that's always hard for me to comprehend. But with this much time elapsing, development in the area, people moving and growth of an area population-wise I guess it's "easy" for what may once have been evidence of something becoming buried beneath progress... or just the lost to the winds of time.

I don't give up hope tho... I do believe all of them are solvable, somehow.

tatertot

12-30-2008, 12:22 PM

Warning: this became longer than expected!

I don't believe the girls ran away. If you're 17 you may think nothing of running away with your 14-year-old friend, but you'd have to know you'd catch hell and maybe face kidnapping charges for taking along a 9-year-old that you barely know.

While most missing teens were classified as runaways by default in those days, Rachel and Ranee would have known that fleeing with a 9yo would make LE more likely to pursue them.

I doubt they'd have wanted to spend a week babysitting a 9yo holed up in a motel instead of going out to enjoy what Houston had to offer, and they would have had to buy all Julie Ann's meals since she didn't have any money for even the mall trip.

The only reason I can come up with as to why they might have taken Julie Ann is if she'd confided that something wasn't right at home and they wanted to protect her, but it sounds like her home life was fine before she went missing.

I don't think Ranee would have run away if it meant missing that night's Christmas party and the chance to show off her promise ring and share her happy news. Even if her pre-engagement to Terry was intended to be kept secret because of their age, she must have been eager to tell a few close friends, and why would she miss a party with her new fiance?

I don't think Rachel wrote the letter that arrived Christmas Eve, simply because it makes no mention of Julie Ann. If Rachel and Julie Ann barely knew each other, Tommy would have had little reason to call Julie Ann's mom to see if Rachel was there. I can't imagine Rachel calmly writing to her husband to say she and her friend had split for a week and failing to mention that they'd also brought along the neighbor girl. It seems like whoever wrote the letter was only concerned with letting Tommy know the girls left voluntarily. I think the letter was primarily written to give the families and LE false hope that the girls would be back in a week, and to avoid serious search efforts from being undertaken.

I doubt the letter's author was related to any of the girls because their relatives would have heard Rachel call her husband exclusively by his nickname "Tommy" and not Thomas, and to avoid suspicion the writer would have used the same name Rachel addressed him by.

I think the letter was written and mailed before their disappearance and the perpetrator did not expect Julie Ann to accompany the girls to the mall. The perp probably knew the girls before that night and he or she planned to move their car to the Sears lot if they didn't already choose to park there. Had they told anyone about buying gifts at Sears vs. elsewhere in the mall, making it reasonable to expect they'd park nearest that store?

Why a mailed letter anyway? By the time it arrived their families would have noticed they were gone and found the car at the mall in an otherwise empty lot, so why not just leave the note in the car for their parents to find? Why would you run away and mess around buying postage, envelopes and possibly stationery as well as finding a mailbox to send the letter from when you could just jot a note to leave in the locked car? I agree, get some DNA off that envelope and off the back of the stamp!

On the "latest news" page on missingtrio.com, there is an article about a former LE officer who had been working security for Sears at the time and saw the girls riding with a young mall security guard in a pickup. I suspect he was entirely innocent and just a young guy trying to flirt with the girls by offering them an escort back to their car, but it's strange that he denied ever being with the girls when LE tracked him down years later. It's also weird that Ranee would be laughing and having a great time in the pickup at 11:30 p.m. She would have missed the Christmas party she was to attend with Terry.

justthinkin

12-30-2008, 05:04 PM

Hi, I'm new here, mostly lurk, but had a few thoughts to add to this. I remember hearing about this case in Houston. It was on the news quite a bit since the girls were thought to have possibly gone to Houston. I also remember the mail being very slow in those days so there is no way that letter would have arrived as quick as it did unless it had been mailed at least 3-4 days before the girls went missing. Unlikely, I think.

I'm going to throw out some ideas that came to me in hopes of discussion or to be trounced on. LOL. If the murders weren't an abduction, what other possible motives exist?

That letter is IMO the most significant piece of info. I don't know who wrote it, but I think it was designed to protect the perp/s. What if young Rachel was pregnant? Her husband already had a 2 yr. old he was having to support. Maybe Rachel was the intended victim, and having the other two girls along made the murder look like an abduction when it wasn't.

It also struck me as odd for a teen-aged guy to give a girl a promise ring early in the morning. Wouldn't that be something done on an evening date at dinner?

Deb Hopper mentioned the girls might have been sold into white slavery. I find that an odd statement. I grew up in Dallas, graduated high school in the second half of the 60s, and I don't think I ever heard anyone mention white slavery or even knew such a thing existed. Ok, I led a sheltered life. If it had been prevalent, knowing my mother, I'm sure I would've been warned about it.

What if this Deb Hopper was into some really bad stuff and bad people. Might she have sacrificed her sister to save her own skin? Maybe she'd been threatened with the death of her whole family if Rachel wasn't handed over. Seems unlikely, but just thought I'd throw it out there since it was another thought I had. Or, perhaps white slavery was just another ruse by her to protect the killer or killers.

That the bodies have never been found, it doesn't seem likely the killers were youthful, but on the other hand, teenagers know all the out of the way places for parking or hiding out to drink. It could be that the killers knew the area extremely well; hence why their bodies have never been found. If Deb was living with Rachel and Rachel's husband, and they were the alibis for each other, the two of them could have been the ones. Typically, I think youthful lovers have more trouble with jealousy. If Rachel had known her husband had been with her sister would she have allowed her to stay with them? I think not.

Also, if it was someone that knew the girls, how would they have gotten rid of the bodies so quickly, and so well? Was anyone employed as a heavy equipment operator, driving a backhoe or something?

I'll bet that letter led the police to dismiss the case at first as runaways. If so, that may have given the killers time to dispose of the bodies. There were lots of runaways back in those days, young people going off to find themselves. Perhaps LE didn't put as much thought into this as they should have.

Wonder if there is any connection between any of the people that knew these girls or a family member with either of the two towns mentioned as possibilities for where the letters supposedly originated? Maybe some grandparents who lived in one of those two places....justthinkin

justthinkin

12-30-2008, 05:22 PM

This is a sad case. Of course they're all sad. Being a parent myself, I just can't imagine the depth of grief these parents have had to go through all these years, not ever knowing what happened to their little girls.

Anyone know the status of this case? Is anyone in LE actively involved in this case or is it just gathering dust? These families need answers.

tatertot

12-30-2008, 07:13 PM

Justthinkin, I agree that letter IS weird. I think someone purposely discarded the rest of the Trlica's Dec. 24 mail so Tommy would have no chance of mistaking the letter for another Christmas card that he wasn't going to waste time opening while his wife was missing.

It says there was no town name stamped on the envelope, only a ZIP code. Was this normal in Texas in 1974 or evidence that somebody used one of those date stamps to make it look as though the letter had been posted? The stamp I'm thinking of is one of those Trodat Printy-dater units with the moveable numbers. I'm not sure how you'd fake the wavy cancellation lines over the stamp, however.

It's hard to predict when a letter is going to arrive, especially during the Christmas rush. The perpetrator wouldn't want it to arrive before the girls actually disappeared because it would be dismissed as a bizarre prank at best and hint at impending danger for the girls at worst. Either way it would throw off the abduction plans.

Tommy retrieved the letter on Dec. 24, but I wonder who typically retrieved the mail and who retrieved it from the mailbox Dec. 22, 23, and so on in case the letter arrived earlier than expected. Would Rachel typically be the first one home after school to get the mail and Debra and Tommy would arrive home from their jobs later?

I wish Debra would take a polygraph test and I can see why the others are upset that she's refused, but I suspect she is innocent. If her supposed motive to get Rachel out of the picture was to have Tommy for herself, it doesn't sound like she made any effort to rekindle her past relationship with him once Rachel was gone.

What about this Army Navy store the girls visited before going to the mall? They'd been there before when they'd originally put the items on layaway, and maybe someone who worked there knew exactly which day they'd be returning for their purchases. From friendly chit-chat this employee could have learned the girls were also heading to the mall that day, maybe to pick up some layaways there.

tatertot

12-30-2008, 07:43 PM

I wish I knew why Rusty believed he might have only been days away from finding Rachel in December 2000 when he was interviewed for the Star-Telegram article. The article said he avoided on-the-record comments about what might have happened to the girls, but he might have said something off the record that the reporter couldn't include in her article (nor share with anyone else, so contacting her wouldn't help.)

I have no idea why he and Dan James think Rachel returns to town every Christmas. Why would she return to visit local stores like Wal-mart but not stop by to at least catch a glimpse of her family? Why would she choose a predictable pattern for her visits that someone could use to find her the following year? I understand Rusty's desire to believe she is still alive but I can't see how somebody could be keeping tabs on her around the clock to make sure she doesn't contact her family, yet that same person allows her to visit at Christmas. And if she really is visiting local stores at Christmas, why hasn't she been caught on security cameras yet?

justthinkin

12-30-2008, 08:34 PM

I know zip about how or what the post office uses to stamp dates and locations. Yes, the letter should have had the name of the town from which it was mailed, stamped on it. At least that is my recollection from that time period, maybe not. Don't go by my recollections on such a thing. My memory is not the best.

Maybe someone/s from the Army-Navy store followed the girls to the mall, waited them out. Parked beside their car, and when they came out, grabbed one, and placed a gun on the others. And yet, how would someone get away with that in a crowded mall parking lot? Wouldn't at least one of the girls had a chance to scream or run away, even if she was brought back by one of the perps? Hard to imagine with 3 girls there was no screaming unless they knew their killer or one of them did. Could have gone off with that person to drink or smoke pot, something, and were killed wherever they'd been taken to.

I'm thinking the most likely suspect is the one who wrote the letter or forced Rachel to write it. How do we know that envelope wasn't from a letter that Tommy had received at an earlier point in time, and one that had arrived with a blank space where, normally. the sender puts their name and address?

I missed that about the Army Navy store on first read. Going to read all the info over again.

tatertot

12-30-2008, 11:26 PM

Someone posted a theory that the girls might have done drugs in someone else's vehicle in the parking lot and Julie Ann fatally overdosed as a result, then the other two fled.

If they were invited to use any drugs in someone's van, I doubt they had anything stronger than pot or beer. I can't see Renee wanting to be less than sober by the time the party rolled around that afternoon or evening, so I doubt she would have chosen that day to try something that would incapacitate her for hours.

Also, I can see a 9yo following the older girls and maybe smoking a joint to appear cool, and maybe a teenager who's already stoned failing to use good judgement and allowing her much-younger friend to have a joint, but you can't OD on a joint.

My knowledge of drugs is limited, but most of the drugs with any risk of overdose have to be injected or snorted and those methods would have been very unpalatable to a child her age. Most kids are terrified of needles at the doctor's. I can't for one minute imagine the older girls drugging her against her will, either. Does anyone know whether marijuana in the 1970s was ever laced with more toxic drugs, and was any of it showing up in the Fort Worth area in 1974?

youshouldveknown

12-31-2008, 12:55 AM

It doesn't have to be an overdose, per se. She could have had an allergic or adverse reaction that led to a more serious situation. For instance: Smoke --> asthma attack --> respiratory failure.

Stella

12-31-2008, 11:14 PM

justthinkin

01-01-2009, 02:40 AM

I've done a little checking into this case, and here's what I've found so far. Long post.

I don't know where it originated, but there has been some misleading information put out on this case, and then repeated on other websites and by the media.

I questioned that in 1974 the US post office could move so fast as to deliver a letter the same day as it was postmarked. Well, they didn't. The letter was postmarked on the 24th, but wasn't received until the girls had been missing for several days.

The Ft. Worth Police reported that the letter was not mailed from Weatherford or Eliasville, but was mailed in Ft. Worth. I have no idea why bogus info would be put out, but it certainly doesn't help solve this case.

Another thing, Rachel's car had been found by 6:00PM on the day the girls went missing. The stores hadn't even closed. The parents of the girls reacted quickly. When the girls didn't show up by 4:00PM the parents started worrying, and by 5:00PM, knew something was really wrong. They called the police, the hospitals, the girls' friends, everything a panicked parent would do, they did. The parents said the police initially dismissed the girls' disappearance as runaways.

I think I will call the Ft. Worth Police next Monday to find out, first hand, what info that's been made public is solid, and what isn't.

Does not look like the police think this was a random kidnapping. Tommy Trlica, Rachel's husband was under suspicion very soon after the fact, and he has not been the only suspect.

According to Rusty Arnold, his sister, Debra Arnold Hopper did finally consented to a polygraph test in 2001. At that time, Rusty Arnold expected to have the case solved shortly. Since that didn't happen, I'm guessing that Debra Hopper passed the polygraph test. I'll see what I can find out.

I don't know what else he does, but Rusty Arnold is also a singer/performer, and has written a song about the disappearance. I really don't know what to make of him. The song may have served two purposes, getting the girls names out there, but also, a more self-serving purpose. I have not yet listened to the song. It is posted online.

Rusty Arnold also claims to have very good information that his sister is alive, and returns to Ft. Worth every year around Christmas. He claims he has credible eye-witnesses, people who know, knew Rachel. I can't imagine, in all this time, if that were the case that someone wouldn't have turned her in to LE. If Rachel were alive she would have to live somewhere and work somewhere, and yet no neighbor or co-worker has come forward with a lead on her whereabouts. If they had, she would've been taken into custody, and this would've been on every TV station in the country and online.

It's been reported that Tommy Trlica offered a $2000 reward, but after a year, sold his house and moved away. I know he married a third time, and his present wife (if they haven't divorced) is a Linda Ishmael who graduated from high school in Frisco, Tx in 1976. I found her on reunion.com where she listed herself as Linda Ishmael Trlica. In 2000. they reportedly were living in east Texas. January of 2008, they were living in Galveston, Tx. Found her and Tommy Trlica listed in attendance at funeral on an obit. listing for Linda's brother. She has numerous siblings. I had to ask myself how she and Tommy Trlica met, and when. With 13 siblings, I wondered if one of her brothers wasn't working with Trlica in Ft. Worth or wasn't hanging out with him in 1974. Of course, if he left Ft. Worth, he may have moved to Frisco.

Here are a few links in no particular order:
http://www.missingtrio.com/TRIO/news41301.htm
http://tinyurl.com/8hqpxk

http://namesdatabase.com/schools/US/TX/Frisco/Frisco%20High%20School

http://www.e-cinc.com/obituariesn.html.
http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/mpccn/trlica.html
http://chriscrimeforum.freeforums.org/3-young-girls-go-to-the-mall-t987.html

I did not find the one link I really wanted to post which contained several articles from several different newspapers. I will keep looking. In the meantime, I apologize for any repetition in links that others may have already posted. I am just too tired to think.

One thing that struck me as odd, is that the families hired a P.I. to work the case in 1975. He died in 1979; his death listed as drug overdose and suicide, and "all his papers destroyed as per his request." I will check that out with the Ft. Worth Police because that sounds hinkey to me.

snowme

01-01-2009, 03:39 AM

Hi justthinkin, I'm glad to see this case forum active! Wow, you've really pointed out some interesting things. I'm grateful for the links and talking points - don't apologize! I can't express enough how good it is to have a fresh pair of eyes going over this case.

Some things, like the letter, have always made my mind go in circles. Now understanding there's some inaccuracies possibly, now I know why. What strikes me odd is that the website was created and maintained by Rusty Arnold, if I'm not mistaken, yet inaccuracies such as when the letter arrived are not corrected by him. The newspaper article posted on the front page of the website leads one to believe the girls disappeared on the 23rd, the letter postmarked on the 24th also arrived on the 24th. Having verified accurate info would be good.

I have listened to Rusty Arnold's song on the missingtrio website. I think it was meant as a touching tribute. I doubt it would ever lead him into a career. (no offense meant to him or anyone else, just saying what I feel) I checked that site a week or so ago, hoping for an update since the last time I had gone there. Unfortunately there's nothing new.

I've never be able to wrap my head around the idea that Rachel was still living and returning to town regularly.

The PI having requested all his paper to be destroyed - I can take that two ways. 1. Hinky and, 2. being a PI perhaps he felt the nature of the information in his files and papers shouldn't be poured over by just anyone and everyone after his death. I can understand that. But... had he intentionally took his life wouldn't ya think he'd have destroyed his files himself beforehand making sure that job was done as he wanted it to be? That in itself takes me back to ... hinky.

I look forward to any info you come up with justthinkin.

I've done a little checking into this case, and here's what I've found so far. Long post.

I don't know where it originated, but there has been some misleading information put out on this case, and then repeated on other websites and by the media.

I questioned that in 1974 the US post office could move so fast as to deliver a letter the same day as it was postmarked. Well, they didn't. The letter was postmarked on the 24th, but wasn't received until the girls had been missing for several days.

The Ft. Worth Police reported that the letter was not mailed from Weatherford or Eliasville, but was mailed in Ft. Worth. I have no idea why bogus info would be put out, but it certainly doesn't help solve this case.

Another thing, Rachel's car had been found by 6:00PM on the day the girls went missing. The stores hadn't even closed. The parents of the girls reacted quickly. When the girls didn't show up by 4:00PM the parents started worrying, and by 5:00PM, knew something was really wrong. They called the police, the hospitals, the girls' friends, everything a panicked parent would do, they did. The parents said the police initially dismissed the girls' disappearance as runaways.

I think I will call the Ft. Worth Police next Monday to find out, first hand, what info that's been made public is solid, and what isn't.

Does not look like the police think this was a random kidnapping. Tommy Trlica, Rachel's husband was under suspicion very soon after the fact, and he has not been the only suspect.

According to Rusty Arnold, his sister, Debra Arnold Hopper did finally consented to a polygraph test in 2001. At that time, Rusty Arnold expected to have the case solved shortly. Since that didn't happen, I'm guessing that Debra Hopper passed the polygraph test. I'll see what I can find out.

I don't know what else he does, but Rusty Arnold is also a singer/performer, and has written a song about the disappearance. I really don't know what to make of him. The song may have served two purposes, getting the girls names out there, but also, a more self-serving purpose. I have not yet listened to the song. It is posted online.

Rusty Arnold also claims to have very good information that his sister is alive, and returns to Ft. Worth every year around Christmas. He claims he has credible eye-witnesses, people who know, knew Rachel. I can't imagine, in all this time, if that were the case that someone wouldn't have turned her in to LE. If Rachel were alive she would have to live somewhere and work somewhere, and yet no neighbor or co-worker has come forward with a lead on her whereabouts. If they had, she would've been taken into custody, and this would've been on every TV station in the country and online.

It's been reported that Tommy Trlica offered a $2000 reward, but after a year, sold his house and moved away. I know he married a third time, and his present wife (if they haven't divorced) is a Linda Ishmael who graduated from high school in Frisco, Tx in 1976. I found her on reunion.com where she listed herself as Linda Ishmael Trlica. In 2000. they reportedly were living in east Texas. January of 2008, they were living in Galveston, Tx. Found her and Tommy Trlica listed in attendance at funeral on an obit. listing for Linda's brother. She has numerous siblings. I had to ask myself how she and Tommy Trlica met, and when. With 13 siblings, I wondered if one of her brothers wasn't working with Trlica in Ft. Worth or wasn't hanging out with him in 1974. Of course, if he left Ft. Worth, he may have moved to Frisco.

Here are a few links in no particular order:
http://www.missingtrio.com/TRIO/news41301.htm
http://tinyurl.com/8hqpxk

http://namesdatabase.com/schools/US/TX/Frisco/Frisco%20High%20School

http://www.e-cinc.com/obituariesn.html.
http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/mpccn/trlica.html
http://chriscrimeforum.freeforums.org/3-young-girls-go-to-the-mall-t987.html

I did not find the one link I really wanted to post which contained several articles from several different newspapers. I will keep looking. In the meantime, I apologize for any repetition in links that others may have already posted. I am just too tired to think.

One thing that struck me as odd, is that the families hired a P.I. to work the case in 1975. He died in 1979; his death listed as drug overdose and suicide, and "all his papers destroyed as per his request." I will check that out with the Ft. Worth Police because that sounds hinkey to me.

tatertot

01-01-2009, 04:41 PM

It does make sense that the families would notice them gone by 4 p.m. since that's when Ranee had planned to be back to prepare for the Christmas party that evening. (Julie Ann had to be back by 6 p.m. according to the article on missingtrio.com.)

If the family found the car by 6 p.m., when did they move it out of the lot? The security guard says he saw the girls in a pickup with another security guard at 11:30 p.m., still on mall property. I can't see how they'd be laughing if they'd missed Ranee's party, kept a 9yo 5.5 hours past her curfew and possibly discovered their car was no longer where they'd left it in the parking lot. Unless of course they'd left the mall and were returning with the guard but hadn't discovered that the car was missing yet.

If Swaim really did order his notes on the case destroyed when they could have helped someone, that must've been a real slap in the face to the families and it makes me angry.

Why would Tommy have been a suspect? Did he have to work on Christmas Eve? You'd think they could have eliminated him as a suspect quickly if it could be proven he'd been at work.

snowme

01-01-2009, 06:22 PM

I'm going to have dedicate the time to go back and re-read everything available. It's never "set" well with me about them supposedly having been seen in the truck with the mall security guy. sigh, it just doesn't make sense in a number of ways.

Just thinking aloud and making a note to myself really. It just feels like it's time for this case to have some clarity and true focus.

justthinkin

01-01-2009, 11:59 PM

Thanks, snowme.

I think the info that Hutchins gave is bogus. In one of the newspaper articles it was reported that several family members set up a watch, and watched that car all night to see if the girls or anyone came back to that car. Now that makes lots of sense to me. If the police first decided the girls were runaways, then it would be up to the parents to do everything in their power until they could make believers of the police.

According to Hutchins he reported what he'd seen to the police, and never heard back, and didn't see the story in the papers anymore. So he waited until 2000 or 2001 to come forward again????....He had to have lived under a rock not to notice that story in the papers. I think he just wanted to be associated with the case in some way for a little fame. Either that or the police need to take a closer look at that guy.

He claims he worked in LE in the 60s, quit, and then went to work for Sears security. Security has always paid less than LE as far as I know, so why would he do that? Maybe he didn't quit. Maybe he was fired from LE or maybe he never worked in LE at all. There was at least one other report that the girls were seen with a security person. Maybe there's even more to it than that. Don't know.

I've been puzzling about several things. Somewhere I read that before the girls went shopping, Rachel had to drop off Tommy's little boy to the child's mother's house or apt. Then the girls went shopping. I've only seen that reported once.

Then I have read where the girls went to an Army Navy store to get some things out of layaway first before heading to the mall. The only way for someone to know that is they had to be told by one of the girls before the girls left on the shopping trip. Secondly, what was supposedly found in the car were some gift wrapped packages, and a sack with a new pair of jeans. Do they sell jeans at Army Surplus stores? I'm not aware of it if they do. If the jeans weren't bought at the surplus store, then what happened to the purchases from the surplus store? Were they in the trunk of the car?

What is the actual estimated time the girls would've arrived at the mall? I feel sure they had been abducted by 4:00PM or else, Renee would've called her mom to let her know they were running late, and they'd be late for the party. My understanding is that her mom was to attend this same Christmas party.

We need more information to work with. If Texas had an open discovery law like Florida, this case would benefit from it as would so many others. Only the prosecution benefits from privacy policies whereas, the victims, the victim's families, taxpayers, truth, the whole justice system benefits from open file discovery.

In the meantime, LE really needs to issue a clear statement of known facts about this case that have been made public, eliminating any false info floating around, and releasing any new info they can.

If anyone runs across a web page with articles on this case from several newspapers, please post a link. Until then, I'll keep looking 'til I find it.

Some detectives had been assigned back in 2001 or 2000 to work this case again. I wonder if anyone's still actively working it.

Family members are usually the first suspects in a murder case until or unless the facts present a different story. Learned that from John Douglas's book, Mind Hunter. The reason why family is first suspected is that more people are killed by family members than by anyone else. If they can't be eliminated as suspects, they're going to remain on the list of suspects.

justthinkin

01-02-2009, 01:34 AM

tator,

To answer your question directly, apparently someone reported to LE that Rachel was unhappy in her marriage. That immediately would throw up a red flag to LE.

I'd like to know Trlica's whereabouts, the day before the disappearances, the day of, and the week after that. I'd like to know the time of day he first heard the girls were missing, and his reaction. I'd like to know if he went with those parents while they "staked out" Rachel's car. I'd like to know where Deb Arnold was too, and her reaction, etc. I'd like to know if any of the girls were wearing a watch, if any of them had ever spoken of meeting someone new at that mall or having a friend who worked at that mall or ever mentioned any people they knew who hung out at the mall prior to their disappearance. It's unlikely Julie Ann would've known any such persons, but the two older girls, it's a possibility.

Which two families had vacationed together? The Moseleys and the Wilsons or the Arnolds and the Wilsons? If it was the Moseleys and the Wilsons, then I think that Renee would've related to Julie Ann as an older sister might have. If that were true, she'd have been watching out for Julie Ann, and was probably why her mother let her go with the two older girls. So for that reason, I don't think the two older ones got Julie Ann into a situation that put her at risk, at least not knowingly. Renee would've felt responsible for Julie Ann. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe the older girls were wild as march hares. Don't know.

I think if I'd have been at a mall, and a younger child had accompanied me there, I don't think I would've left the mall with friends of mine, and taken a 9yr. old with me. I'd have probably told them, "sorry, some other time." Now if Rachel's husband showed up, I think I'd have treated that relationship differently, and might have gone somewhere with she, her husband, and taking the 9 yr. old with me.

It's important to think under what circumstances would these girls leave the mall, and who they might have left with if they weren't just nabbed out of the parking lot. How much influence did RacheI exert over Renee or vice versa? Which girl was the leader and which the follower? If Rachel was unhappy in her relationship, it might have been that she'd met someone else, a bad someone else (unbeknownst to her just how bad), and she could have had it set up for that person to meet them at the mall that day so her husband wouldn't find out. Heck, maybe she was friends with the boyfriend that Deb Arnold was having trouble with.

Whatever guy, maybe he brought a friend of his along with him to the mall that day, and initially Rachel left with them, leaving Renee and Julie Ann at the mall. I can see something like this happening easily. Rachel goes off with two guys, guys her age or older. Something gets out of hand, and Rachel is killed. If Renee and Julie Ann could identify the two guys Rachel left with, then Rachel's killers might have come back to the mall, lured the other two girls away from the mall, saying something was wrong with Rachel, and they needed to come quick. Then they killed the two younger girls, the only witnesses who could say Rachel was last seen in their company. It's a good theory, but I dont' know how the letter would fit into it.....

snowme

01-02-2009, 03:35 AM

justthinkin, I set out to find the page that had several newspaper articles on the case for you and meandered and stumbled into something else. By the way, before I get into that, you are aware that one of the links you provided a few posts up contained several articles too, right? This one: http://tinyurl.com/8hqpxk I'm guessing it's another site you're looking for but want to be sure.

Now, in trying to find a site with several articles on it I searched a phrase like "fort worth 1974 murders" just to see if I could find something that would give me a general glimpse at what other incidents may have taken place around the general time period. I came across a well laid-out site for a cold case Carla Walker (Feb. '74). The site is the effort of a retired Detective John Terrell (FWPD). There's much information there and one thing I was looking for was if there was a hint at all that our missing girls here may be linked at all to the suspect in Miss Walker's case. Indeed, Detective Terrell believes there just might be a link. The main page for Carla Walker's case:

http://www.ejweb.com/!jfc/main.shtml

The suspect in Miss Walker's case is William Ted Wilhoit, he is a convicted sex offender currently paroled. His offender database page:

https://records.txdps.state.tx.us/DPS_WEB/SorNew/PublicSite/index.aspx?PageIndex=Individual&IND_IDN=7078246&SearchType=Name

His name really caught my attention as it seemed slightly familiar. I've heard it on local news (actually a nearby city that he has connections with, but since I live in a rural area they are considered our local stations). It gives me the creeps that he's "down the road".

Anyway, I've not read all of the case info at Miss Walker's site, I intend to. I may read it before I dive back into the information here for our three girls, just to see if anything clicks ahead of time.

tatertot

01-02-2009, 02:21 PM

I'll keep looking for articles as well.

The mall must have been closed, possibly for hours, by 11:30 p.m. when the security guard said he saw the girls in a younger security guard's pickup. Presumably at this hour the lot was virtually empty, save for Rachel's abandoned car and whatever vehicle the parents were inside while they staked out her car.

The article said the two guards had a "run-in" and words were exchanged but then everyone laughed and they drove off. Er...with a background in law enforcement, would you allow one of your younger coworkers to cruise a deserted parking lot with three young girls who are out way past legal curfew? I can see him looking the other way while the younger guard cruised with the two teens he might have wanted to impress, but definitely not with a nine-year-old in the truck.

I wonder how many times during either guard's shift (the elder guard worked for Sears) the girls had been paged over the mall's intercom and whether the pages could be heard from inside the Sears store as well as the rest of the mall. If the older guard had heard the pages throughout the day and all three girls' names were mentioned, why wouldn't he have connected this to the three in the car?

A few more questions:

Was the younger guard a Sears employee or employed elsewhere in the mall? Did he work indoors or was his sole job to patrol the parking lot?

Exactly how much media attention did this case get? Were fliers posted at the mall where the older guard would have seen them on his rounds, or did police return to interview the guards? It's very hard to believe he assumed the girls had been found. Surely the guards must have discussed the disappearance on their lunch breaks or in the guard stations!