Missing Fort Worth Three- Must Read

[emma l]

This case is fascinating to me. I would love peoples thoughts on what on earth is going on..........I hope it hasn't already been posted! if it has please just ignore me.

Basic story- 3 girls, one 9 years old (Tracey Ann Moseley) doe link http://doenetwork.us/cases/59dftx.html

Rachel Trilica (17 years old) Doe link http://doenetwork.us/cases/57dftx.html

and Lisa Renne Wilson (14 years old) Doe link http://doenetwork.us/cases/58dftx.html

Went to the mall in Fort Worth, December 1974 and never came back..............

Read the links for more info but a letter was received some time after from Rachel stating they were "getting away for a while" and would be back in a week. They never re-appeared.

This would be fairly straight forward missing persons case but Rachel's brother states that
Snip........
"............. several "credible witnesses" say they've spotted Rachel since the disappearance. "One was in 1998 around Christmas," he says.
Rusty and James believe that Rachel visits Fort Worth during the Christmas season each year. James is careful with his words, but he maintains that someone is "shrouding and manufacturing evidence" in what he says was at first an effort to keep the two older girls away. Now he thinks only Rachel survives. He is evasive about what he thinks happened or who he believes can be held accountable.
"I believe that that person facilitates and maintains an effort to keep Rachel Arnold [Trlica] away from Fort Worth. I believe that Renee Wilson is not alive. . . . I believe that something dreadfully wrong, and probably a fatality, occurred involving Julie Ann Moseley," he says"
Snip..................
This is from the website he's set up- and he's announced he's hired a private investigator and a personal $25,000 reward Here's the link to his site....................
http://www.missingtrio.com/TRIO/index.htm

It infers on the website that Rachel's sister knows what happened. Actually its a v good site. Anyway I'd be interested to hear what you all think........ What could keep a grown woman (as she now would be) away from her home and family? Is her brother suggesting she is being held captive? V confusing and haunting. It would be great to shed some light onto this for their families.

I'm in the UK, so I probably won't pick up your replies till the morning.

[VespaElf]

Emma,
OMG! What a fascinating case!! Its also quite curious how the youngest missing girl's (Tracey) older sister Debra was involved with Rachael's husband AND was with him when the letter arrived (and why won't Debra take a polygraph like the families asked her too?).

I know theres unfortunately so many tragic missing cases but this seems to have alot of elements that seem tailor made for media and Im surprised it hasnt gotten more coverage.

Thank you for sharing this Emma! I know Im now "hooked" on this case too!

[emma l]

Hi Messiecake!

Thanks for posting.......it is weird that this hasn't gotten more media coverage.... the private investigator says that he received anonymous death threats when he tried to create more publicity.......V weird. I also noticed that on the Doe website it states that Rachel's brother (James?) believes that Rachel and Lisa are still alive. Yet on the brothers website it now states that he believes only Rachel survives.........I wonder if Doe made a mistake or whether James believes that Lisa died recently? What does he think she died of I wonder? I've half a mind to mail him through his site and invite him to post.........Bit nervous though!

The letter that Rachel's husband received shortly after their disappearance can only mean 1 of 2 things as far as I'm concerned:
1) It really was sent by Rachel and they decided to dissapear(They then stayed away or met with foul play)

Or

2) The letter is fake and someone who Rachel knew is responsible for their disappearance.

Apparently the handwriting tests were inconclusive..............

Theres no other possible explanations. I don't know of many multiple murderers who go around copying their victims handwriting and sending letters to their victims families to cover their tracks! By definition they're mad and don't care about the victims as "people" at all. It has to be someone they knew- this is the most likely explanation.

What's most interesting is that James believes Rachel is being kept away now. I've been thinking about this and I wonder if he believes that the person responsible has manufactured evidence AGAINST Rachel? This would make sense.Of course the lack of a polygraph test is v v interesting,but not conclusive.

Then again Sherlock Holmes said something like "When you discount the perpostorous and the ridiculous, you are left with the obvious.......and this can be the only explantion"!

Am hooked on the case! Let me know if you come up with anything. Would love to think that at least one of the missing girls is still alive.

[VespaElf]

Emma,
I think contacting him is a great idea! Im not sure just how much info he'd be willing to share(if any) but at worst he could just decline-nothing ventured,nothing gained!! If anything I think he'd welcome the oppertunity to get attention for this case.

In my unprofessional opinion it seems Rachael is indeed the crux of this mystery as it was(supposedly) only her who has since made contact and I think she had some familarity with the person(s) who led the girls away from the mall as the varying ages of the girls (as well as the fact there were 3 of them) would rule out a random abduction
I wonder who invited Tracey(the youngest girl)? I think whoever planned this did not figure on her being there with Rachael.

Rachael is curious herself as she was married and only 17.Although I was married quite young myself I find this interesting and usually an indicator of having led a hard life esp.since she was married to an older divorced man .I wonder if drugs were ever involved?
Has he been polygraphed or questioned ?
Did he and Debra resume their relationship after Rachael "dissapeared"?


James has reason to belive Rachael is alive,why?



We have to try and invite him to the site! This case is a nail-biter!!!

[emma l]

Messiecake, I think you're def right about whoever did this not counting on the youngest girl (Tracey) being there. But presuming that the relatives knew that she was, if they were involved, why still go ahead with it?

I would def rule out a random abduction. I would guess that it would take more than one man to abduct 3 girls- one of whom was married and so we can assume reasonably street-smart. Also abducters usually go for easy targets- 3 girls , 2 almost adult, are not east targets to abduct from a busy shopping mall. This would mean that they'd have to have accidentally come across a group of men, (or women!) who wanted to abduct both a child and 2 older girls for (presumably) illicit purposes.......it doesn't make any sense...........And of course theres the letter. This virtually rules out a random abduction.

Debra was quite dismissive of her relationship with Rachels husband, but these things have a tendancy to be blown out of all proportion when you're young, so its not impossible that it is somehow related.............

I think that the brother knows more than is on his website and he's waiting for someone to speak up and confirm his suspicions........I feel for Rachel,if she is in fact still alive, whatever hapenned, it would be almost impossible for her to come back now.........Unless she was a totally innocent victim and I get the feeling from what I've read that this might be not be the case.............I wonder if her brother has actually spoken to her? Its not impossible.

I think I'm going to brave it and invite the brother here sometime this week. I'll let you know how I get on!

[BethInAK]

I always had an interest in this case, but never saw the brothers website! thanks for posting it.

One of the things I have noticed - when a child dies or disappears, family seem to need to have someone to blame - to be angry with, and i wonder if thats not whats happening here.

[VespaElf]

I always had an interest in this case, but never saw the brothers website! thanks for posting it.

One of the things I have noticed - when a child dies or disappears, family seem to need to have someone to blame - to be angry with, and i wonder if thats not whats happening here.



I agree with you in theory but in this case it seems clear at least one of the girls knew their abductor due to the evidence of the letter.

I am totally hooked on this case! If her brother does register here I wonder if we could get this on a "Case of the Month"??

[Jeana (DP)]

This is a very interesting case indeed. I'd love to be able to talk to someone involved. Hard to believe the 17 year old was married!!! Please do try to get someone to register here and talk to us.

[BethInAK]

[QUOTE=messiecake]I agree with you in theory but in this case it seems clear at least one of the girls knew their abductor due to the evidence of the letter.
[QUOTE]

you have a point. could the letter be some prank?

[KATKAT19691]

I sent an e-mail to the two e-mail address on the website maybe we will hear from them soon. I remember this case from when I was a kid and overheard parents talking and stuff. We use to go to Denton Texas to visit relatives and was there during this time. I have not heard a word over the years so it is strange that there was never any media. I wonder why?

[emma l]

Katkat19691,
I'd also sent an email to them so hopefully they should get back to us. I did notice though that the last update on the site was 2002...........I wonder whats going on?

[KATKAT19691]

Emma, I got a reply to my e-mail from Rusty. He said he could not post here but gave me a phone number to call him if I wanted to talk to him. Did you get a similar reply? Have any ideas on what questions I should ask him. Let me know and I will call him.

Kat

[KATKAT19691]

I called the number he e-mailed me and I got voice mail. It was strange because I got a second e-mail from him asking me to call now, and I did but only got voice mail wonder why he did not answer. I left my number so maybe he will call me back.
I don't know what all he will let me post but I will post as much as I can. I will respect what he wants to have out here, and what he does not, so I hope he is willing to give more details for us. There does not seem to be any details at all. I have searched and other than the websites already listed above I have found nothing. Did anyone find anything else that might be helpful or give us more clues.

I too think it is strange that the sister will not take lie detector and the relationship she had with her sisters husband. Also, the death threats and the first pi destroying all his files what is up with that? There has to be a lot more to this story. Stay tuned.

Will keep ya posted!

Kat

[emma l]

Hey kitkat19691,
Sorry my computers been down, so I couldnt post. Its weird that he would rather you rang him than he posted here, maybe he hasn't the time.
I've Private Messaged you anyway..............Not sure if I'd have the guts to actually ring him.Let me know how it goes!

[Jeana (DP)]

I sent an e-mail to the two e-mail address on the website maybe we will hear from them soon. I remember this case from when I was a kid and overheard parents talking and stuff. We use to go to Denton Texas to visit relatives and was there during this time. I have not heard a word over the years so it is strange that there was never any media. I wonder why?

Kat, its not that unusual for back then. My sister disappeared in 1984 and there were only about a dozen newspaper articles in total. There was no internet then, no CSI, no television shows like America's Most Wanted and no instant news like there is now. There were no victim's rights or psychological counsellors that they send to your house. And there was definately no "how to" kit to tell you how to deal with the media, the "psychics," or all the freaks calling in "helpful tips."

[emma l]

Jeana, I'm sorry about your sister. I hope you were able to get some closure. It is unbelievable that before John Walsh and his son Adam there wasn't even an official missing persons database. Did you know that here in the UK - the national missing persons/childrens network (the same as you have over there-NCMEC) only went on-line about a month ago? Its ridiculous that this situation is not taken more seriously- although obviously some progress has been made. We have a little boy here called David Entwistle- an 8 year old who went missing last year. I had heard so little about him that I thought he had been found. I have not seen one article, or news slot about him in over 6 months.

The scale of missing people is nothing in the UK compared to the US, even considering the small population. There are only 48 registered missing children here in the UK- and most of them are runaways (although they obviously may still be in danger). In the US there are a whopping 1854 offical missing children(statistics from the NCMEC site).........Considering the difference in statistics you'd think that a missing child would get huge publicity here in the UK- but it just doesn't happen.Theres something wrong somewhere.

People don't just "vanish". Somebody, or something is responsible for their disappearance..

Heres little Daniels link. I think of him all the time.

http://www.missingkids.co.uk/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=280795&orgPrefix=UK41&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_GB&searchLang=en_GB

[amandab]

Hi Emma-

I remember reading about Daniel on the BBC web site when he first went missing...my memory is a little fuzzy, but is he the little boy that they think may have fallen into a river?

My apologies if I've gotten him confused with someone else....

-Amanda

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana, I'm sorry about your sister. I hope you were able to get some closure.

Emma, I understand what you're trying to say, but there is no such thing as "Closure." It doesn't exist. Even if they arrest my sister's murderer and execute him, my family wouldn't have anything near closure.

[emma l]

Jeana, I have PM'd you..................

Amandab, Yes, thats Daniel. They suspected he might have fallen in to the river but since they haven't found his body yet and its not a particulary fast-moving river I think they might be starting to suspect otherwise.........I don't know which is worse for his poor family.....................

[LillyRush]

Hi there,

I have read about this case before and I too find it interesting as well as puzzling that nothing was ever solved.

Just wanted to comment on a couple of things that have been previously written. The youngest girl's name is Julie (9 yr. old), not Tracey. There are a couple of posts where you did say Julie but then went back to using Tracey repeatedly. I was just wondering whether you read that somewhere or were just getting a name mixed up? There is no person named Tracey that I've ever read of being involved in this case. I believe the oldest two were the only ones that went by a name other than their first name, Lise Renee Wilson and Mary Rachel Trlica both went by their middle names (Renee and Rachel, of course). Not a major deal but I just wanted to mention that about the youngest one's name.

Something else that I've read and just wanted to clear up, is the part about Debra being the sister of the youngest girl and that she had an affair with Rachel's husband. Debra is actually Rachel's (the oldest girl) sister. She had dated Rachel's husband *before* the two of them got married and there was speculation about them having an affair during Rachel's marriage. Debra was living in the house with Rachel and the husband at the time which also made the situation more awkward. So, I'm not sure but maybe you are getting that situation mixed up with the fact that the youngest girl's (Julie's) *brother* was dating *Renee* (the middle aged girl, if you will).

That leads me to how Julie ended up going on the mall-outing. Renee was visiting her grandmother who lived across from Julie's family and they were friendly with each other because Julie's older brother was dating Renee. Basically it was just that Julie, as many young kids her age do, was hanging out with the cool older kids (brother's girlfriend) and when Renee's friend (Rachel) came over to take her to the mall Julie wanted to tag along. She was just pretty much an innocent victim and if this was pre-planned she was probably not expected to be there, you are right about that. All of this information is available on the missing trio website that you've already cited but I just wanted to clear up the discrepencies in the re-telling of the story for public informational purposes. :cool:

[VespaElf]

Any news on Rusty?

[emma l]

Messiecake, I haven't heard anything on Rusty I'm afraid. I have emailed him but didnt get a reply. Kat emailed him and he replied and asked her to call- which she did, but no answer as yet.

Lillyrush, thats interesting- the youngest girls name IS Julie but I read several times that it was Tracey. What a weird mistake. I (typically) can't find any of the links now. Isn't that weird though?
I was aware of that Debra dated Rachels husband BEFORE they were together- maybe that didn't come across clearly..........

Anyway, thanks for the corrections. :D

[VespaElf]

Emma,

I too read it written as both Julie and Tracey but it hardly matters as I think we all know what it was we were saying ...............oh well.


I hope Kat hears SOMETHING!

[KATKAT19691]

The link that is provided in the first post leads to a site that calls her Julie and show her aged photos. I think I have read a few that calls her Tracey also, so don't feel bad. I have never been able to actually speak with Rusty, he tried to call me a few times while I was at work, and I tried him but only got voice mail so no luck. Will let ya'll know if I ever get to speak with him.
http://doenetwork.us/cases/59dftx.html
Kat
IMO

[LillyRush]

The only reason I asked where you read that her name was something different than Julie is because if there is a website that is stating her name as being Tracey then they should probably be contacted, since they are wrong. I suppose it doesn't matter anyway since suddenly no one remembers where it was that you read it that way. The missing trio website is put together by family members of the victims so I am sure that if their loved ones went by alternate names it would be written as such there and in the interview with Julie's mother (which is also posted there). The doe network is fine but definitely not as comprehensive as it's former sister website, the missing person's cold case network, used to be. Also, I was not stating that you did not know that Debra dated Rachel's husband before they got married. If you look back you will see that I was clarifying information on a post that said that the 'youngest girl's' (Julie's) older sister was Debra and that that was some ironic twist to how she was connected to the case, which is not how it was and the correct info is in my post above..the same information is on the missing trio website but was not being re-told here in the same way it was written there. I certainly did not mean to put you on the spot but since this seems to be a place where people go to gather information on cases details large and small pretty much matter, otherwise you have people doing searches for the wrong thing or person and that just kind of defeats the purpose of looking further into these cases in the first place. There is a high # of views to this thread, outside of the smaller conversation within it, so it could only stand to benefit the case in the long run (imo) for people to get the clearest pictures of the case circumstances. That is all.

[KATKAT19691]

I was just wondering, what was the relationship between the husband and the sister after the girls went missing, did they get together????

Kat
IMO

[emma l]

As far as I know it was just platonic. They never got back together...........

[Richard]

The case of the three girls who disappeared from Seminary South Shopping Center in Fort Worth on 23 December 1974 is indeed an intriguing and unusual one. Multiple abductions by strangers are quite rare, and are therefore outside the usual patterns. This case, however, bears a number of striking similarities to another one which occurred in Maryland only three months later.
These three Fort Worth girls; Julie Ann Moseley (9), Mary Rachel Trlica (17), and Lisa Renee Wilson (14) all disappeared two days before Christmas from a shopping center.
In Wheaton Maryland, a few days before Easter on 25 March 1975, the Lyon Sisters, Sheila and Kate disappeared from a shopping center. They too are still missing.
While these cases have never been connected by any evidence (there simply isn't much evidence in either case), they stand out as very rare occurances of multiple abduction, so close together in time and circumstance.

[Jeana (DP)]

Very much indeed Richard. Welcome to Websleuths. Do you have a link to any stories about this other case?

[emma l]

Goodness you're right. Welcome Richard!! I have read about that abduction loads of times and didn't connect them. I am a RUBBISH detective. Here we are Jeana............

Shelia and Katherine disappeared from Wheaton, Maryland on March 25 1975. There was a suspicious man who was never seen again. He was asking people for their comments and had a micro-phone. He could have used this ploy before- easily.He never came forward as a witnesss, and there was loads of publicity, so he is the prime suspect.


They were possibly seen April 7th bound and gagged in the back of a van.
"..................When the driver spotted a witness tailing him, he ran a red light and sped west on Route 234 towards Interstate 66 in Virginia. The station wagon had Maryland license plates with the possible combination "DMT-6**." The last two numbers are unknown due to the bending of the car's plate. The known combination was issued in Cumberland, Hagerstown and Baltimore, Maryland at the time. A search for matching plate numbers failed to produce any information.".............snip This is from the links below.........

Sheila http://doenetwork.us/cases/64dfmd.html 12 years old

Katherine http://doenetwork.us/cases/65dfmd.html 10 years old.

I wonder........................Can anyone else come up with other connections? between these girls and the fort worth girls? I'm gonna search and post tommorrow.

I also found this link with some theories and a mention of a "ransom note". I wonder why this is mentioned on "Doe" links?
http://forthelost.bravepages.com/lyon.html

Their poor families, imagine losing both of your children at once.

[Richard]

Here are a couple of links to stories about the Lyon Sisters Case:
I wrote the story which appears in the Doe Network case files, and it has been copied many times by other websites. The Montgomery County Police of Maryland have this as an active and open case.

Sheila Lyon link: Click here: The Doe Network: Case File 64DFMD

Katherine Lyon link: Click here: The Doe Network: Case File 65DFMD

Maryland State Police website: Click here: Maryland Department of State Police

[Jeana (DP)]

Thanks Emma and Richard!! Lots to catch up on.

[emma l]

Just thought I'd bump this cause its such an interesting case. Also with Christmas coming up it will be 30 years this year since this happened and I wonder if that might jog someone memory? Maybe they'll be some kind of memorial?

Still haven't been able to get anymore information at all...................

[T-Rex]

That is an interesting case. What about this? The girls bump into someone they know. They go out to his van with him to get high. The little girl has a fatal reaction, and dies. They hide her body. The friend convinces them to go away while he figures out what to do. He sends the note to Rachel's husband to buy time. But knowing that he will be in trouble if they ever tell what happened, he convinces them they will be arrested and go to jail if they come back. Maybe the middle girl eventually decides to come back anyway, so he kills her. Now he has that much more to blackmail Rachel with to keep her away.

[emma l]

T-rex!! I am impressed with your theory! I wonder if any of them had a history of drug abuse? How did you come up with such an interesting theory? I guess if Rachel is still alive she would probably have to have a pretty good reason not to contact anyone after ths long. Blackmail is as good as any..............

You'e not the murderer :laugh: :eek: :) are you?! (I know thats a crazy question but I had a compusion to ask!!)

[Richard]

It will be the 30 year anniversary of the disappearance of these three girls. There are probably many theories about how or why they disappeared, but in the end, it is still a mystery. I would be somewhat skeptical about letters, phone calls, or other after-the-fact clues because of the tendency for hoaxers to try and mess with the case. This has happened in almost all high profile cases. My personal feeling is that this was an abduction by more than one kidnapper (maybe three), probably using a cargo van parked near the victims' car. I doubt that the kidnappers knew the girls, because if they were going for someone specific, they would have waited for just that one person. More likely they were looking for victims of opportunity, and took the girls when they felt no one was watching.

[LillyRush]

I think the letter was placed in the mailbox by Rachel's sister.

[emma l]

It could well have been- anythings possible!!

[2sisters]

It has been 30 years they have been missing. It is sad that their families have spent the past 30 years not knowing what happened to them.

[sharon25]

Just came across these three missing girls while I was looking through the Texas Department of Public Safety.

Any news?

[KatherineQ]

has the 'missingtrio' site been disabled?

I can't make it load.

Thanks -

[Yeah,me]

I couldn't get into it either. I guess they closed it down?:(

[blueclouds]

The site is archived though. Try this:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040203183628/missingtrio.com/TRIO/index.htm

If the above link doesn't work, let me know.

[KatherineQ]

Thanks Blueclouds.

Very interesting.

[mysteriew]

The letter that Rachel's husband received shortly after their disappearance can only mean 1 of 2 things as far as I'm concerned:
1) It really was sent by Rachel and they decided to dissapear(They then stayed away or met with foul play)

Or

2) The letter is fake and someone who Rachel knew is responsible for their disappearance.

Apparently the handwriting tests were inconclusive..............

Theres no other possible explanations. I don't know of many multiple murderers who go around copying their victims handwriting and sending letters to their victims families to cover their tracks! By definition they're mad and don't care about the victims as "people" at all. It has to be someone they knew- this is the most likely explanation.

.


While is it unusual for a multiple murderer to write letters to the family that purports to be from the victim, it is not unknown. John E. Robinson the Internet Slavemaster did it in his 1984/85 murders (link to story: http://www.mayhem.net/Crime/robinson.html)
In a recent cold case in my area the suspected murderer has approached the victim's father a couple of times and asked him if he had heard from his dau. and has told stories of how he has heard of the woman living in an area and being on drugs. Everyone thought the woman had run away, no one knew she had been murdered, because her body had not been found yet. Because she was thought to be alive and missing voluntarily, no one looked for her.
So the purpose of this type of communication seems to be to keep the confusion on what exactly happened, and to provide misdirection in any investigation.

[Yeah,me]

http://www.nbc5i.com/news/4534362/detail.html

Wonder if this guy could be connected to the case in any way?

[Richard]

http://www.nbc5i.com/news/4534362/detail.html

Wonder if this guy could be connected to the case in any way?
I doubt it. The story is about Murderer Curtis Don Brown who has been in prison since killing a nurse in her home in 1986. Recent DNA evidence has linked him to the murder of another woman in Fort Worth in 1985, and police have now opened 18 other cold cases which he may have been involved in - all from the early 1980's.

Brown is now 46 years old and would have been only 15 or 16 when the three girls disappeared from the shopping center. Such an abduction of three young girls does not seem to fit his MO. It is also doubtful if other elements of evidence would fit Brown.

It would be interesting to know where he was at the time. Sometimes Inmate locators list previous incarcerations and convictions. Maybe such a website could provide an answer to his whereabouts and activities in December 1974.

[Yeah,me]

Ohhhh, for some reason I had it in my mind that their dissapearance happened in 1979......which wouldn't have been too much of a stretch, but 1974 is a much different story. Thanks for responding.

[CaliKid]

What intrigues me about this case is that several people close to it suspect that at least one of the girls is still alive, or at least was several years ago. I read up on it at the time, but I've forgotten a lot too.

[vanillasky]

Bump :)


The site is functional now... http://www.missingtrio.com

[Mr. E]

I wonder what evidence they have to make them suspect that at least one girl is still alive? 30 years is a long time to go without making any kind of contact, even if the reason you disappeared was something awful.

Still, I suppose it has happened. Laurie Davern was missing for 20-some years, wasn't she? And she just left voluntarily.

I'm inclined to agree with T-Rex, who suggested earlier a scenario in which the youngest girl died and the others left to hide that fact. I feel like the child, at least, would not leave so easily from her home and not return for 30 years.

[Richard]

I wonder what evidence they have to make them suspect that at least one girl is still alive? 30 years is a long time to go without making any kind of contact, even if the reason you disappeared was something awful.

Still, I suppose it has happened. Laurie Davern was missing for 20-some years, wasn't she? And she just left voluntarily.

I'm inclined to agree with T-Rex, who suggested earlier a scenario in which the youngest girl died and the others left to hide that fact. I feel like the child, at least, would not leave so easily from her home and not return for 30 years.
As you indicate, such a scenario is possible, but is it really all that probable? We are talking about three young girls here, not secret agents or con artists who are experienced at disappearing and assuming new identities.

The far more likely scenario is that all three girls were abducted by a person or persons who subsequently killed them. While one or more may have been kept alive for some period of time after that fateful day, it would probably have been at the whim of the abductor, rather than other circumstances.

Many well publicized cases are plagued with hoaxes perpetrated by individuals who want to get into the act in some manner. Crank callers, false confessions, false leads to police (whether intentionally false, or sincere persons who are only mistaken, or simply coincidences) are all part of what goes on during open investigations.

[Marilynilpa]

Just bumping this to the top.

[2sisters]

I'm bumping this with the 31st anniversary of their dissapearances coming up.
Rachel would be/will be 48, Lisa 45, and Julie 40. Someone out there knows what happened to them, their families have spent too many holidays without them. They deserve to know where they are.

[Marilynilpa]

I'm bumping this with the 31st anniversary of their dissapearances coming up.
Rachel would be/will be 48, Lisa 45, and Julie 40. Someone out there knows what happened to them, their families have spent too many holidays without them. They deserve to know where they are.
I'm fairly certain someone knows what happened to them, but without any evidence the police can't do anything about it.

I was about 12 or 13 when this happened, and lived in Dallas, Texas. My parents, and those of my friends, didn't want us venturing very far from home after that. We had a small shopping center near our house, and my friends and I used to walk up there and go to the drug store and the five & dime, but after this happened, we were forbidden to go there unless a parent went along.

Up until the time these three girls disappeared, my parents always felt it was pretty safe to let me go places with my friends. I guess they believed there was "safety in numbers". But when three girls were abducted together, that changed everything.:(

[mjak]

This is a case that I find so sad. As much as I would like to think one of the girls could be alive I find that hard to believe. The girls car was found right were they said they were going. In the car were items they had picked up from another store that had been on layway for one of the girls. This supports they went and were doing exactly what they said they were doing. If the older girls had other plans, such as doing drugs or running away I don't think they would have taken 9 year old Julie Ann with them. Had an x boyfriend or other known person decided to do something to one of the girls I find it unlikly he/she would choose to do it when that person is out with two other people. I think Richards scinerio "The far more likely scenario is that all three girls were abducted by a person or persons who subsequently killed them." is far more likley. I would be curious if there are records of other missing females at that time in Texas or unsolved and unexplained murders of females. What a sad case.

mjak

[Marilynilpa]

This is a case that I find so sad. As much as I would like to think one of the girls could be alive I find that hard to believe. The girls car was found right were they said they were going. In the car were items they had picked up from another store that had been on layway for one of the girls. This supports they went and were doing exactly what they said they were doing. If the older girls had other plans, such as doing drugs or running away I don't think they would have taken 9 year old Julie Ann with them. Had an x boyfriend or other known person decided to do something to one of the girls I find it unlikly he/she would choose to do it when that person is out with two other people. I think Richards scinerio "The far more likely scenario is that all three girls were abducted by a person or persons who subsequently killed them." is far more likley. I would be curious if there are records of other missing females at that time in Texas or unsolved and unexplained murders of females. What a sad case.

mjak
There has long been speculation that the sister of one of the missing girls was involved. She denies it, of course, and obviously the police don't have any evidence to prove otherwise. From what I've read, she and her family don't have a good relationship. Whether that came about as a result of this tragedy, or whether it was always that way is unknown.

I know there have been other cases of girls missing from shopping areas, but I don't know if those disappearances occurred in Texas or not.

[mjak]

I find it hard to believe that the Sister of one of the girls could be responsible for the dissapearnce of all three. I just can't come up with a motivation for her to have gotten rid of all three girls. Why would she have done something to an innocent 9 year old child? the cumstances surrounding the dissapearnce just does not add up to me as a crime of jelousy or sisterly foul play. Sounds more like an opportunistic abduction situation to me.

mjak

[2sisters]

They had to have left with someone they knew and I'd be curious about her sisters whereabouts that day. A stranger abduction seems unlikely seeing as there were 3 of them. It doesn't seem like on opportunistic person would try for 3 girls so there would need to be more than one abductor If it were a stranger and a group of girls getting abducted by another group of people would draw alot attention in theory. To me it seems that someone they all know has the answers to where they are and what happened to them.

[Marilynilpa]

I find it hard to believe that the Sister of one of the girls could be responsible for the dissapearnce of all three. I just can't come up with a motivation for her to have gotten rid of all three girls. Why would she have done something to an innocent 9 year old child? the cumstances surrounding the dissapearnce just does not add up to me as a crime of jelousy or sisterly foul play. Sounds more like an opportunistic abduction situation to me.

mjak
The sister's name is Debra. Here is a snippet about her:

Debra is more candid. "I know he [her brother] blames me. I know he thinks I had something to do with it. . . . Rusty thinks this letter that Tommy got the next day - he thinks I wrote it. . . . I didn't write this letter. I don't know who did. I don't know what happened to my sister. Maybe white slavery. That's the only thing that makes sense to me," she says. "I have nothing to hide."

Link: http://www.missingtrio.com/TRIO/

[mjak]

A stranger or two strangers with a gun would probalby not have much of a problem getting two teenagers and a 9 year old to get into a van or car with them.

mjak

[Marilynilpa]

A stranger or two strangers with a gun would probalby not have much of a problem getting two teenagers and a 9 year old to get into a van or car with them.

mjakThat's true, but please keep in mind that this was a busy shopping center, and the sight of one or two strangers armed with a gun would probably have gotten someone's attention. You know how it is when a mall is crowded during the Christmas shopping season, and you drive slowly through the parking lot trying to find a place to park. You are looking at every car you approach to see if anyone is getting ready to leave. So it just doesn't seem likely, to me, that these three girls were abducted in that manner.

[mysteriew]

But a person sitting in a vehicle if discreet, could show gun or knife to the girls, and not draw others attention if the girls didn't put up an outcry. Or if they had a good story, they may have convinced the girls to get into the vehcile.

[Richard]

This discussion is very similar to one on the thread for the Lyon Sisters, Sheila and Kate, who went missing from a Wheaton, Maryland Shopping Center exactly three months after the three girls from Fort Worth disappeared. None of those girls has been found. I wonder if there was any connection, or if the first incident might have provided the idea for the later one.

[Beyond Belief]

I think this was a Van abduction type that happened in the parking lot. Perhaps parked next to them. Two guys grab two and the third tries to help the others, you have all three, in the van, held at gunpoint or knife and drive away. I am not going to dwell on the what happened next theory. The Maryland girls probably were approached when they were walking away from the mall by the man they had made friends with the microphone. He may have talked them into getting in the car. Kids were alot more naive in the 70's than they are now.

[ssiegmund]

I grew up in Fort Worth and am the same age Rachel would have been, so I've always been interested in this case.

The letter arrived in the mail box early the next morning, almost too quickly to have been delivered by the USPS. It was the only thing in the box. I have never heard if there was more mail delivered at the house later that day. It did have a postmark and police have determined it was mailed from Fort Worth. It arrived too quickly to be a cruel hoax, but could have been written by the perpetrator, or Rachel could have been forced to write it. One source indicates it was written by a right handed person and Rachel was left handed, but tests were inconclusive. It addressed her husband as Thomas even though she called him Tommy, and, if written by Rachel, could have been used to signal distress. I don't think Rachel wrote it of her own free will. If two girls decide to split for Houston for the weekend, would they really take a 9 year old girl with them? And obviously they were with someone else, because of course if they went by themselves, they would have taken their own car. They were with someone else, and the letter was written to make it look like they were with that person by choice, and yet Rachel did not name the person or even say they went with someone else. "We (as in, the three of us) went to Houston".

But the bottom line is, why does Rusty Arnold think his sister Debra wrote the letter? Okay, Debra went out with Tommy before Tommy and Rachel got married. So Debra wakes up one morning and decides to kill Rachel and two other people? She picks them up at the mall, takes them off and kills them, and there's no evidence to be found? An 18 year old girl?

In a radio interview, which can be found on his website, Rusty says Debra took a polygraph which indicates she may have had knowledge of what happened that day. He gives no details. Why not? How do we know this is true and not simply his interpretation? To my knowledge, the finding that Debra failed the polygraph was never reported in the papers, or apparently further investigated by police.

Rusty believes that Rachel is still alive, is being kept away by unseen forces, and that she visits Fort Worth every Christmas. What does he base this belief on? He has never said. I'd be curious to know.

The police have said the girls probably left with someone they trusted. A witness came forward and said he saw the three girls in a mall security truck, with the security guard, at about 11 pm. I have problems with this. The mall would have been long closed even at Christmastime, and if the girls had car problems or any other problems other than being abducted, they would have called their parents or Rachel's husband hours earlier; they were expected home by dark.

This case has torn the families involved apart and it is very sad. I understand they need some closure but I think Rusty needs to accept that his sister is gone.

[Stella]

I'm from the Metroplex and remember this case well. Seems to me a few people connected to this case aren't telling all they know. Why not? And why did that first PI have all his records pertaining to the case destroyed? What did he find out that he didn't want anyone else to know? Sure would like to see this one solved.

[2sisters]

Bumping for the 3 girls. It will be 32 years that they have been gone.

[2sisters]

Bumping this again. Someone knows something. Someone has information on this and they are thinking about this case right now. Please come forward.

[Gina_M]

Thanks for bumping this up. This is the first time I've read about this case. I keep coming back to the fact that this happened right before Christmas, and earlier in the thread it was being compared to another case where two girls disappeared right before Easter. Could there be some sort of cult involved? I know it may sound far fetched but we don't have much to go on here.

[Gina_M]

*bump*

No new info on this? Looking back at my cult idea it seems kind of silly. Could just be that people tend to go to malls a lot during the holidays.

[Teresa Larson]

I think the first P.I knew something and he was getting too close for comfort (for somebody involved in this case) I doubt he commited suicide and asked for his records to be destroyed. I think it was made to look like that. I think it was somebody right there that did something to those 3 girls. I also think it's very strange that the brother claims he has had contact from somebody IF that is the case then he knows what happened

[froggierintexas]

What happened to the security guard that was at the mall? Or guards? Did any of them go on to be police officers?

[joefriday]

Richard Said:

"Many well publicized cases are plagued with hoaxes perpetrated by individuals who want to get into the act in some manner. Crank callers, false confessions, false leads to police (whether intentionally false, or sincere persons who are only mistaken, or simply coincidences) are all part of what goes on during open investigations."

This is too true. The copy cat comment re the Lyon Case in Md is interesting, Rich. Please however, spare me the TRM. I think that's a red herring, now, looking back.

[Jdee]

I grew up in Fort Worth and am the same age as one of the girls. I also went to the same shopping center many times growing up. I was there around the time this happened.
A couple of years ago I recalled something from the time about one of my visits to this outdoor mall with a friend where we were followed and approached by a man. The guy reached out for my arm at one point as I passed him. To cut to the chase here... I wrote the brother of the girl that has the website about my incident a couple of years ago. It may not have been connected at all but who knows? The guy never wrote back. I find it odd too that a couple of people here tried to call him at his request and he never answered the phone even though he told them to call.
Makes me wonder about this brother...
If it were me and if I really wanted help I would have emailed anyone back that might possibly have information about that time and I would have answered my phone if I told someone to please call me about this case.

[Gina_M]

Updated Doe Network links (since they changed from dot us to dot org)

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/59dftx.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/58dftx.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/57dftx.html

Charley Project links:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/moseley_julie.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/wilson_lisa.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/trlica_mary.html

I think the letter is strange. How did it arrive so quickly, the very next morning? Did it really come through the post office, or was the postmark fake? At first I thought it could have been mailed ahead of time, but it mentions the car being in Sears parking lot. If they left of their own accord, why not take the car? I know hitchhiking was more common back then, but if you have a car, why not take it with you. And if they really wanted to get away for a week, why right during the Christmas holidays? It must have been an abduction...but that letter really bugs me.

[Gina_M]

I was just reading about this in another forum. One of the members of that forum has spoken with Rusty. An interesting bit of info I hadn't seen mentioned anywhere else, is that the three girls went to the mall early in the morning, then came back at noon so that Rachel could return her stepson to his mother (Tommy's ex-wife). And then, supposedly, they returned to the mall. Other interesting ideas over there such as maybe the perp found Rachel's driver's license or a piece of mail to obtain Tommy's name and their address, which would explain why there was no letter from the other girls, since they probably wouldn't have any kind of ID at that age. But someone else pointed out that the letter was signed "Rachel", which was actually her middle name. So either it was written by someone who knew she went by her middle name, or by Rachel herself.

Interesting reading...
http://s12.invisionfree.com/unsolvedcasecenter/index.php?showtopic=139

[froggierintexas]

I guess, if we are speculating, I will add my two cents. While, it is possible for more than one person, child to be abducted at once and it is possible the hubby and sis did it, I am leaning more toward, they decided to go hang out and 'party' with someone and something happened to the littlest one and the two girls booked it out of town and never looked back. Purely out of fear, even if they weren't the ones that caused the harm. But then I watch a lot of movies.

[Jdee]

I don't buy that they booked it out of town. They would have had to just about live on the streets because if they had any help that person would by now have come forward. I think they were abducted in that parking lot. They were probably lured into a vehicle with the promise of smoking some pot which was big back then. The perp probably drove them out somewhere isoloated and you can guess the rest. Knowing Rachel went by Rachel would not have been that hard to figure out. He could have just asked their names or one of the other girls mentioned it in the ride. The letter was probably written by Rachel under duress to give the guy an alibi if the LE ever looked his way. I do not beleive any family member was involved here.

[Teresa Larson]

I don't buy that they booked it out of town. They would have had to just about live on the streets because if they had any help that person would by now have come forward. I think they were abducted in that parking lot. They were probably lured into a vehicle with the promise of smoking some pot which was big back then. The perp probably drove them out somewhere isoloated and you can guess the rest. Knowing Rachel went by Rachel would not have been that hard to figure out. He could have just asked their names or one of the other girls mentioned it in the ride. The letter was probably written by Rachel under duress to give the guy an alibi if the LE ever looked his way. I do not beleive any family member was involved here.

IMO I highly doubt they left to go and smoke weed with someone they didn't know. I am sure it was a friend or family member that killed them That's why they went along willingly with who ever showed up at the mall parking lot If there would have been a struggle someone would have seen it and I also think the younger girl would have ran away from a struggle if she was able to as I said before I also believe somebody killed the P.I because he was getting to close to solving the case. What reason would he of had to have the records destroyed? I am sure he wanted the case solved. I work for a P.I friend periodically They become attached to their cases and solving it

[Meyahna]

Yes, I believe the same. I think Rachel's sister has sthg to do with it. I didn't know a PI was killed.

[Teresa Larson]

Yes, I believe the same. I think Rachel's sister has sthg to do with it. I didn't know a PI was killed.

Yes the P.I. working on this case was killed He was working very hard on getting it solved They said he commited suicide and wanted the records concerning this case destroyed I really doubt he wanted that done. There is more to the story here trust me!!

[Meyahna]

That's sad. He could have committed suicide but unless he thought all his theories were stupid that's strange he wanted all his work detroyed.

[Gina_M]

Yeah, that does sound strange. From the Missing Trio website, "Swaim died in 1979 of what was said to be a drug overdose. The death was ruled a suicide. All his files, including records of this case, were destroyed - just as he had requested."

[2sisters]

Bumping this up. It has been going on 33 long years, I always think of these girls when the shopping season starts.

[kline]

What a haunting and facinating case.
Im kind of perplexed that anyone would believe for a second that a nine year old girl would agree to run away with two teen agers ...she had to get permission to go to the shopping center she would have been terrified at such a suggestion.
Conversely if one or both of the teenagers decided to' get away' to Houston why in the world would they drag a 9 year old little girl along?
As for the brother...whatever is going on with him...we have too many of these cases where some family member is muttering ominous non sequitters about conspiracies and inside information that of course... they cant share at this time.
I mean come on.The waters are muddy enough why make it worse?

[2sisters]

Bumping again!

[Gina_M]

Bumping again!

[gaia227]

Thanks Gina - I am glad I found this one. Very baffling indeed.

[louisy42445]

Was Tommy's ex ever looked at? Did anyone see the girls after they dropped his child off at her house? Jealeousy maybe? In those days I don't think they would be as quick to think a young woman capable of such a thing but as we all know stranger things have happened.

[HollywoodBound]

I thought jealousy too but taking all three people at once seems unusual.

I wonder if they still have the letter that was mailed or the envelope in particular. If the stamp on it was the licking kind maybe they could DNA test it?

Another possible clue from the letter. It says "sic" which is substitute in correction after "Sear's" on the letter's description:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/trlica_mary.html
I take it the author could not spell Sear's correctly. Most people can spell that one, I wonder if it was someone who always spelled it wrong.

[shadowangel]

I came across some info pertaining to this case...

As reported in the Galveston Daily News, March 28 1981, Brazoria County sheriff's dep't investigators, along with Ft. Worth police, were searching a swamp near the town of Alvin for human remains. In 1976, an oil rig worker discovered two skulls and a jaw in the area. But, due to what was termed a "bad search", nothing else was recovered at the time. Due to the election of a new sheriff, several cases were being given a second look. LE believed that the skulls may have had something to do with the disappearance of Trlica, Wilson, and Mosely.

During the search on the 28th, human teeth, vertebrae, two pair of girls' pants and a high school drama book were recovered. The remains were sent to the coroner for dental comparison.

On April 5th, 1981, it was reported that the remains belonged to two girls who had disappeared in 1974 from nearby Dickinson, Texas. Georgia Geer, 14, and Brooks Bracewell, 12, had disappeared without a trace in September while on their way to their school bus stop.

The articles then went on to discuss the possibility that 40 other girls had gone missing and been murdered in the area of Brazoria County and the surrounding counties. By the mid-70's, the bodies of 21 girls who had been reported missing in 1971 and 1972 had been found. In 1974 and 1975, an additional 17 were reported missing. Police had developed a (unnamed) suspect in 1971, who was subsequently killed by police in 1972.

The "official" LE story was that there was nothing substantial to link the cases. Unofficially, detectives were reported to say that there had to be something to it...The girls ranged in age from 12 to 21, most being 14 or 15. Almost all shared the same general physical features; thin builds, long, straight light to medium brown hair parted in the middle.
Almost all were found in or very close to water.

Other articles, dated as late as 2002, compiled missing/recovered/unidentifed victim reports from the area. One report stated that since 1971, 21 girls and women had gone missing along the I-45 corridor through the area, and the LE had recovered the remains of 14. This number includes those found in the Calder Rd "killing field", as discussed in another thread here.

[kline]

40 girls missing or murdered around one county in a five year period ...and LE sees nothing substantial linking the cases.
What utter idiocy.
I cant imagine how this became a twenty odd year old cold case.:furious:

[mkath59]

Alvin and Ft Worth are almost 300 miles apart

[shadowangel]

Alvin and Ft Worth are almost 300 miles apart
True...And yet the Ft Worth PD felt there was enough of a possiblity that all the disappearances were related that they sent their officers to Alvin to assist in the search.

[Kimberly1]

Teen agers running away don't take a nine year old along. They don't leave their running car behind, and they dont spend their available cash on Christmas gifts to leave locked in the trunk of the car they aren't taking. It doesn't make sense.

[gaia227]

Bumping.

I wonder if Tommy still has the letter and original envelope. If the envelope was sealed then most likely whoever sent the letter licked the envelope glue to seal it. There is the remote possibility their DNA is still there.

[NSC]

Bumping.

I wonder if Tommy still has the letter and original envelope. If the envelope was sealed then most likely whoever sent the letter licked the envelope glue to seal it. There is the remote possibility their DNA is still there.

I was thinking the same thing -- it stated the envelope was sealed on the wedsite.

I was thinking, if they are mentioning in this letter that the car is on the upper deck - why would they go anywhere in a car with someone they actually knew??? Wouldn't they just meet them at a mall if it was a casual get together???? The only possibility I can think of is someone they knew came to the mall, claimed an emergency at home and was luring them into a trap. Other than that, maybe they were abducted outside their car on the way out of the mall -- otherwise, it would be strange to get three girls outside of the mall.

[Kristin83]

Does anyone else find it extremely frusturating that there's not more information/reading on this case? Missingtrio.com is a good read, but that's about all I've ever been able to find.

[pie]

What is this?

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/~gav/wayfarence/storybcnw.html?spp2

[shadowangel]

What is this?

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/~gav/wayfarence/storybcnw.html?spp2

It appears to be a part of a "make your own adventure" online game, where the players write the story as they go along. It seems as though someone used Rachel's name as their unsername...Classy. :furious:

[danilee]

What is this?

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/~gav/wayfarence/storybcnw.html?spp2

WEIRD :confused:

[PeaHen80]

What is this?

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/~gav/wayfarence/storybcnw.html?spp2

Could someone email the owner of the site to find out profile info on this person? Not sure how all of this works...I am normally a lurker.

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/~gav/wayfarence/welcome.html

[Laura_Bean]

Check these out and tell me what you all think:::


http://www.doenetwork.org/

Go here and check on these for possible matches


Check out this 20UFNJ file

Does she look a LOT like Rachel Trlica

[Laura_Bean]

You know something, if the teenagers were planning on running away and the little girl went with them, perhaps they sent the 9 year old home with someone they knew and trusted, and than she never made it there? Like maybe the person they sent her home with was some sicko who tried something and went too far?

[Laura_Bean]

sorry the file I gave you will not bring it up. So let's do it this way. Go to the link I gave for the doe network. Than go to index to unidentified victims. Once it comes up, go to unidentified victims chronological index. Scroll down by years and find 1988, (this year is NOT when the person died, but rather when a body was found). Go down to Jane Doe's. Click on 20UFNJ from there.


Here is the profile of the girl and photos. I will post the profile.

Unidentified White Female

Discovered on December 10, 1988 in Atlantic Highlands, Monmouth County, New Jersey.
The victim was estimated to have been buried at the location for over 10 years.
The victim was estimated to have died sometime around 1970 - 1975

Vital Statistics


Estimated age: 15 - 20 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'0 - 5'4"; 100 - 120 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Hair and eye color are both undetermined.
Dentals: Available. Decedant had signifigant tooth decay. Gap in the upper central incisors.
Clothing: She was wearing a long-sleeved gray and red nylon laced top; a white bra; brown leather platform sandals, size 6 1/2 with a 2 1/2 inch-high heel; and knee-high white acrylic socks. Items found near her body included a portion of one pink rubber thong-style sandal; and a leather-like shoe or small boot with a picture of a football scene on the side, stitched in red and white.
DNA: Available in Codis

Case History
This victim was discovered off lower Bayside Drive in Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey as a parcel of land was cleared along Sandy Hook Bay.

[prd2bokie]

I think they look alot alike. She has a distinct mouth and so does the doe.

[snowme]

Hi Laura_Bean - there are similarities between the picture of Rachel and the drawing of the UF but here's what snagged me... in info for Rachel it mentions a chipped upper front tooth that is not mentioned in the UF's dental description. I do think you hit a good find tho because the time frame this NJ woman would have been from kind of fits. (the description of her platform shoes threw me back to the 70's instantly.) NJ is a long way from TX tho but that's a logical thought and logic often does have a place when chaos is ruling, huh.

For future readers, here's a direct link to the UFNJ case page: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/20ufnj.html

ETA: It just dawned on me, thinking of the clothing/shoe description for the NJ case, I don't recall reading any descriptions anywhere (here or missingtrio.com) with regard to what any of the three Fort Worth girls were wearing (clothes/shoes or jewelry). Have I missed that?

sorry the file I gave you will not bring it up. So let's do it this way. Go to the link I gave for the doe network. Than go to index to unidentified victims. Once it comes up, go to unidentified victims chronological index. Scroll down by years and find 1988, (this year is NOT when the person died, but rather when a body was found). Go down to Jane Doe's. Click on 20UFNJ from there.


Here is the profile of the girl and photos. I will post the profile.

Unidentified White Female

Discovered on December 10, 1988 in Atlantic Highlands, Monmouth County, New Jersey.
The victim was estimated to have been buried at the location for over 10 years.
The victim was estimated to have died sometime around 1970 - 1975

Vital Statistics


Estimated age: 15 - 20 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'0 - 5'4"; 100 - 120 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Hair and eye color are both undetermined.
Dentals: Available. Decedant had signifigant tooth decay. Gap in the upper central incisors.
Clothing: She was wearing a long-sleeved gray and red nylon laced top; a white bra; brown leather platform sandals, size 6 1/2 with a 2 1/2 inch-high heel; and knee-high white acrylic socks. Items found near her body included a portion of one pink rubber thong-style sandal; and a leather-like shoe or small boot with a picture of a football scene on the side, stitched in red and white.
DNA: Available in Codis

Case History
This victim was discovered off lower Bayside Drive in Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey as a parcel of land was cleared along Sandy Hook Bay.

[Laura_Bean]

The thing is, one says she had a chip in a front tooth. In the other it says a gap in the incisors, which could either mean a missing tooth, OR a partial tooth. So it could fit. I find those two interesting.

[Laura_Bean]

oh and only one child's parents knew what she was wearing, and it wasn't rachel's. It was the other older girl whose parents knew exactly, and the youngest girl's parents weren't sure either. So, one way to do this would be to call the parents and ask if Rachel owned these clothes if she had worn them in the past, etc. Just a thought.

[Laura_Bean]

Also, the other older girl was wearing red and white leather sneakers. Found near this girl was a "Leather like shoe or boot with a picture of a football scene in red and white". Interesting, very interesting...

[snowme]

Oh you're right Laura, there was a bit of a description at doenetwork on Lisa Renee Wilson's clothing. She may also have been wearing that sweet little promise ring given to her that morning by Julie Ann's brother Terry (as per missingtrio.com). The shirt she was wearing may be similar to the one shown here: http://www.stuckinthe70s.com/images/tb0874sweethonesty.jpg Different color but the sweet honesty logo probably was the same. I think my sister had a shirt like that!

[Laura_Bean]

Thank you for the picture of the shirt.

[Stella]

Bump. Thirty-four years now. Hope someone solves this before everyone has passed on.

[mae]

It has been that long? I had thought by now one of them would have contacted a family member.

This cases always confound me. How does this happen? I always hope there will be a break in this one, and these families find out what happened to these girls.

[snowme]

Sadly, I don't think any of the three of them are alive to contact the family members. But it does confound me too... no traces to confirm anything, that's always hard for me to comprehend. But with this much time elapsing, development in the area, people moving and growth of an area population-wise I guess it's "easy" for what may once have been evidence of something becoming buried beneath progress... or just the lost to the winds of time.

I don't give up hope tho... I do believe all of them are solvable, somehow.

[tatertot]

Warning: this became longer than expected!

I don't believe the girls ran away. If you're 17 you may think nothing of running away with your 14-year-old friend, but you'd have to know you'd catch hell and maybe face kidnapping charges for taking along a 9-year-old that you barely know.

While most missing teens were classified as runaways by default in those days, Rachel and Ranee would have known that fleeing with a 9yo would make LE more likely to pursue them.

I doubt they'd have wanted to spend a week babysitting a 9yo holed up in a motel instead of going out to enjoy what Houston had to offer, and they would have had to buy all Julie Ann's meals since she didn't have any money for even the mall trip.

The only reason I can come up with as to why they might have taken Julie Ann is if she'd confided that something wasn't right at home and they wanted to protect her, but it sounds like her home life was fine before she went missing.

I don't think Ranee would have run away if it meant missing that night's Christmas party and the chance to show off her promise ring and share her happy news. Even if her pre-engagement to Terry was intended to be kept secret because of their age, she must have been eager to tell a few close friends, and why would she miss a party with her new fiance?

I don't think Rachel wrote the letter that arrived Christmas Eve, simply because it makes no mention of Julie Ann. If Rachel and Julie Ann barely knew each other, Tommy would have had little reason to call Julie Ann's mom to see if Rachel was there. I can't imagine Rachel calmly writing to her husband to say she and her friend had split for a week and failing to mention that they'd also brought along the neighbor girl. It seems like whoever wrote the letter was only concerned with letting Tommy know the girls left voluntarily. I think the letter was primarily written to give the families and LE false hope that the girls would be back in a week, and to avoid serious search efforts from being undertaken.

I doubt the letter's author was related to any of the girls because their relatives would have heard Rachel call her husband exclusively by his nickname "Tommy" and not Thomas, and to avoid suspicion the writer would have used the same name Rachel addressed him by.

I think the letter was written and mailed before their disappearance and the perpetrator did not expect Julie Ann to accompany the girls to the mall. The perp probably knew the girls before that night and he or she planned to move their car to the Sears lot if they didn't already choose to park there. Had they told anyone about buying gifts at Sears vs. elsewhere in the mall, making it reasonable to expect they'd park nearest that store?

Why a mailed letter anyway? By the time it arrived their families would have noticed they were gone and found the car at the mall in an otherwise empty lot, so why not just leave the note in the car for their parents to find? Why would you run away and mess around buying postage, envelopes and possibly stationery as well as finding a mailbox to send the letter from when you could just jot a note to leave in the locked car? I agree, get some DNA off that envelope and off the back of the stamp!

On the "latest news" page on missingtrio.com, there is an article about a former LE officer who had been working security for Sears at the time and saw the girls riding with a young mall security guard in a pickup. I suspect he was entirely innocent and just a young guy trying to flirt with the girls by offering them an escort back to their car, but it's strange that he denied ever being with the girls when LE tracked him down years later. It's also weird that Ranee would be laughing and having a great time in the pickup at 11:30 p.m. She would have missed the Christmas party she was to attend with Terry.

[justthinkin]

Hi, I'm new here, mostly lurk, but had a few thoughts to add to this. I remember hearing about this case in Houston. It was on the news quite a bit since the girls were thought to have possibly gone to Houston. I also remember the mail being very slow in those days so there is no way that letter would have arrived as quick as it did unless it had been mailed at least 3-4 days before the girls went missing. Unlikely, I think.

I'm going to throw out some ideas that came to me in hopes of discussion or to be trounced on. LOL. If the murders weren't an abduction, what other possible motives exist?

That letter is IMO the most significant piece of info. I don't know who wrote it, but I think it was designed to protect the perp/s. What if young Rachel was pregnant? Her husband already had a 2 yr. old he was having to support. Maybe Rachel was the intended victim, and having the other two girls along made the murder look like an abduction when it wasn't.

It also struck me as odd for a teen-aged guy to give a girl a promise ring early in the morning. Wouldn't that be something done on an evening date at dinner?

Deb Hopper mentioned the girls might have been sold into white slavery. I find that an odd statement. I grew up in Dallas, graduated high school in the second half of the 60s, and I don't think I ever heard anyone mention white slavery or even knew such a thing existed. Ok, I led a sheltered life. If it had been prevalent, knowing my mother, I'm sure I would've been warned about it.

What if this Deb Hopper was into some really bad stuff and bad people. Might she have sacrificed her sister to save her own skin? Maybe she'd been threatened with the death of her whole family if Rachel wasn't handed over. Seems unlikely, but just thought I'd throw it out there since it was another thought I had. Or, perhaps white slavery was just another ruse by her to protect the killer or killers.

That the bodies have never been found, it doesn't seem likely the killers were youthful, but on the other hand, teenagers know all the out of the way places for parking or hiding out to drink. It could be that the killers knew the area extremely well; hence why their bodies have never been found. If Deb was living with Rachel and Rachel's husband, and they were the alibis for each other, the two of them could have been the ones. Typically, I think youthful lovers have more trouble with jealousy. If Rachel had known her husband had been with her sister would she have allowed her to stay with them? I think not.

Also, if it was someone that knew the girls, how would they have gotten rid of the bodies so quickly, and so well? Was anyone employed as a heavy equipment operator, driving a backhoe or something?

I'll bet that letter led the police to dismiss the case at first as runaways. If so, that may have given the killers time to dispose of the bodies. There were lots of runaways back in those days, young people going off to find themselves. Perhaps LE didn't put as much thought into this as they should have.

Wonder if there is any connection between any of the people that knew these girls or a family member with either of the two towns mentioned as possibilities for where the letters supposedly originated? Maybe some grandparents who lived in one of those two places....justthinkin

[justthinkin]

This is a sad case. Of course they're all sad. Being a parent myself, I just can't imagine the depth of grief these parents have had to go through all these years, not ever knowing what happened to their little girls.

Anyone know the status of this case? Is anyone in LE actively involved in this case or is it just gathering dust? These families need answers.

[tatertot]

Justthinkin, I agree that letter IS weird. I think someone purposely discarded the rest of the Trlica's Dec. 24 mail so Tommy would have no chance of mistaking the letter for another Christmas card that he wasn't going to waste time opening while his wife was missing.

It says there was no town name stamped on the envelope, only a ZIP code. Was this normal in Texas in 1974 or evidence that somebody used one of those date stamps to make it look as though the letter had been posted? The stamp I'm thinking of is one of those Trodat Printy-dater units with the moveable numbers. I'm not sure how you'd fake the wavy cancellation lines over the stamp, however.

It's hard to predict when a letter is going to arrive, especially during the Christmas rush. The perpetrator wouldn't want it to arrive before the girls actually disappeared because it would be dismissed as a bizarre prank at best and hint at impending danger for the girls at worst. Either way it would throw off the abduction plans.

Tommy retrieved the letter on Dec. 24, but I wonder who typically retrieved the mail and who retrieved it from the mailbox Dec. 22, 23, and so on in case the letter arrived earlier than expected. Would Rachel typically be the first one home after school to get the mail and Debra and Tommy would arrive home from their jobs later?

I wish Debra would take a polygraph test and I can see why the others are upset that she's refused, but I suspect she is innocent. If her supposed motive to get Rachel out of the picture was to have Tommy for herself, it doesn't sound like she made any effort to rekindle her past relationship with him once Rachel was gone.

What about this Army Navy store the girls visited before going to the mall? They'd been there before when they'd originally put the items on layaway, and maybe someone who worked there knew exactly which day they'd be returning for their purchases. From friendly chit-chat this employee could have learned the girls were also heading to the mall that day, maybe to pick up some layaways there.

[tatertot]

I wish I knew why Rusty believed he might have only been days away from finding Rachel in December 2000 when he was interviewed for the Star-Telegram article. The article said he avoided on-the-record comments about what might have happened to the girls, but he might have said something off the record that the reporter couldn't include in her article (nor share with anyone else, so contacting her wouldn't help.)

I have no idea why he and Dan James think Rachel returns to town every Christmas. Why would she return to visit local stores like Wal-mart but not stop by to at least catch a glimpse of her family? Why would she choose a predictable pattern for her visits that someone could use to find her the following year? I understand Rusty's desire to believe she is still alive but I can't see how somebody could be keeping tabs on her around the clock to make sure she doesn't contact her family, yet that same person allows her to visit at Christmas. And if she really is visiting local stores at Christmas, why hasn't she been caught on security cameras yet?

[justthinkin]

I know zip about how or what the post office uses to stamp dates and locations. Yes, the letter should have had the name of the town from which it was mailed, stamped on it. At least that is my recollection from that time period, maybe not. Don't go by my recollections on such a thing. My memory is not the best.

Maybe someone/s from the Army-Navy store followed the girls to the mall, waited them out. Parked beside their car, and when they came out, grabbed one, and placed a gun on the others. And yet, how would someone get away with that in a crowded mall parking lot? Wouldn't at least one of the girls had a chance to scream or run away, even if she was brought back by one of the perps? Hard to imagine with 3 girls there was no screaming unless they knew their killer or one of them did. Could have gone off with that person to drink or smoke pot, something, and were killed wherever they'd been taken to.

I'm thinking the most likely suspect is the one who wrote the letter or forced Rachel to write it. How do we know that envelope wasn't from a letter that Tommy had received at an earlier point in time, and one that had arrived with a blank space where, normally. the sender puts their name and address?

I missed that about the Army Navy store on first read. Going to read all the info over again.

[tatertot]

Someone posted a theory that the girls might have done drugs in someone else's vehicle in the parking lot and Julie Ann fatally overdosed as a result, then the other two fled.

If they were invited to use any drugs in someone's van, I doubt they had anything stronger than pot or beer. I can't see Renee wanting to be less than sober by the time the party rolled around that afternoon or evening, so I doubt she would have chosen that day to try something that would incapacitate her for hours.

Also, I can see a 9yo following the older girls and maybe smoking a joint to appear cool, and maybe a teenager who's already stoned failing to use good judgement and allowing her much-younger friend to have a joint, but you can't OD on a joint.

My knowledge of drugs is limited, but most of the drugs with any risk of overdose have to be injected or snorted and those methods would have been very unpalatable to a child her age. Most kids are terrified of needles at the doctor's. I can't for one minute imagine the older girls drugging her against her will, either. Does anyone know whether marijuana in the 1970s was ever laced with more toxic drugs, and was any of it showing up in the Fort Worth area in 1974?

[youshouldveknown]

It doesn't have to be an overdose, per se. She could have had an allergic or adverse reaction that led to a more serious situation. For instance: Smoke --> asthma attack --> respiratory failure.

[Stella]

Someone posted a theory that the girls might have done drugs in someone else's vehicle in the parking lot and Julie Ann fatally overdosed as a result, then the other two fled.

If they were invited to use any drugs in someone's van, I doubt they had anything stronger than pot or beer. I can't see Renee wanting to be less than sober by the time the party rolled around that afternoon or evening, so I doubt she would have chosen that day to try something that would incapacitate her for hours.

Also, I can see a 9yo following the older girls and maybe smoking a joint to appear cool, and maybe a teenager who's already stoned failing to use good judgement and allowing her much-younger friend to have a joint, but you can't OD on a joint.

My knowledge of drugs is limited, but most of the drugs with any risk of overdose have to be injected or snorted and those methods would have been very unpalatable to a child her age. Most kids are terrified of needles at the doctor's. I can't for one minute imagine the older girls drugging her against her will, either. Does anyone know whether marijuana in the 1970s was ever laced with more toxic drugs, and was any of it showing up in the Fort Worth area in 1974?
I know of one drug dealer who operated in the DFW area in the mid 70's. He would lace joints with a horse tranquilizer called "Angel Dust". Reactions were varied from panic attacks to paranoia. If Julie smoked one of these revved up joints, she may have freaked out and who know what could have happened.

[justthinkin]

I've done a little checking into this case, and here's what I've found so far. Long post.

I don't know where it originated, but there has been some misleading information put out on this case, and then repeated on other websites and by the media.

I questioned that in 1974 the US post office could move so fast as to deliver a letter the same day as it was postmarked. Well, they didn't. The letter was postmarked on the 24th, but wasn't received until the girls had been missing for several days.

The Ft. Worth Police reported that the letter was not mailed from Weatherford or Eliasville, but was mailed in Ft. Worth. I have no idea why bogus info would be put out, but it certainly doesn't help solve this case.

Another thing, Rachel's car had been found by 6:00PM on the day the girls went missing. The stores hadn't even closed. The parents of the girls reacted quickly. When the girls didn't show up by 4:00PM the parents started worrying, and by 5:00PM, knew something was really wrong. They called the police, the hospitals, the girls' friends, everything a panicked parent would do, they did. The parents said the police initially dismissed the girls' disappearance as runaways.

I think I will call the Ft. Worth Police next Monday to find out, first hand, what info that's been made public is solid, and what isn't.

Does not look like the police think this was a random kidnapping. Tommy Trlica, Rachel's husband was under suspicion very soon after the fact, and he has not been the only suspect.

According to Rusty Arnold, his sister, Debra Arnold Hopper did finally consented to a polygraph test in 2001. At that time, Rusty Arnold expected to have the case solved shortly. Since that didn't happen, I'm guessing that Debra Hopper passed the polygraph test. I'll see what I can find out.

I don't know what else he does, but Rusty Arnold is also a singer/performer, and has written a song about the disappearance. I really don't know what to make of him. The song may have served two purposes, getting the girls names out there, but also, a more self-serving purpose. I have not yet listened to the song. It is posted online.

Rusty Arnold also claims to have very good information that his sister is alive, and returns to Ft. Worth every year around Christmas. He claims he has credible eye-witnesses, people who know, knew Rachel. I can't imagine, in all this time, if that were the case that someone wouldn't have turned her in to LE. If Rachel were alive she would have to live somewhere and work somewhere, and yet no neighbor or co-worker has come forward with a lead on her whereabouts. If they had, she would've been taken into custody, and this would've been on every TV station in the country and online.

It's been reported that Tommy Trlica offered a $2000 reward, but after a year, sold his house and moved away. I know he married a third time, and his present wife (if they haven't divorced) is a Linda Ishmael who graduated from high school in Frisco, Tx in 1976. I found her on reunion.com where she listed herself as Linda Ishmael Trlica. In 2000. they reportedly were living in east Texas. January of 2008, they were living in Galveston, Tx. Found her and Tommy Trlica listed in attendance at funeral on an obit. listing for Linda's brother. She has numerous siblings. I had to ask myself how she and Tommy Trlica met, and when. With 13 siblings, I wondered if one of her brothers wasn't working with Trlica in Ft. Worth or wasn't hanging out with him in 1974. Of course, if he left Ft. Worth, he may have moved to Frisco.

Here are a few links in no particular order:
http://www.missingtrio.com/TRIO/news41301.htm
http://tinyurl.com/8hqpxk

http://namesdatabase.com/schools/US/TX/Frisco/Frisco%20High%20School

http://www.e-cinc.com/obituariesn.html.
http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/mpccn/trlica.html
http://chriscrimeforum.freeforums.org/3-young-girls-go-to-the-mall-t987.html

I did not find the one link I really wanted to post which contained several articles from several different newspapers. I will keep looking. In the meantime, I apologize for any repetition in links that others may have already posted. I am just too tired to think.

One thing that struck me as odd, is that the families hired a P.I. to work the case in 1975. He died in 1979; his death listed as drug overdose and suicide, and "all his papers destroyed as per his request." I will check that out with the Ft. Worth Police because that sounds hinkey to me.

[snowme]

Hi justthinkin, I'm glad to see this case forum active! Wow, you've really pointed out some interesting things. I'm grateful for the links and talking points - don't apologize! I can't express enough how good it is to have a fresh pair of eyes going over this case.

Some things, like the letter, have always made my mind go in circles. Now understanding there's some inaccuracies possibly, now I know why. What strikes me odd is that the website was created and maintained by Rusty Arnold, if I'm not mistaken, yet inaccuracies such as when the letter arrived are not corrected by him. The newspaper article posted on the front page of the website leads one to believe the girls disappeared on the 23rd, the letter postmarked on the 24th also arrived on the 24th. Having verified accurate info would be good.

I have listened to Rusty Arnold's song on the missingtrio website. I think it was meant as a touching tribute. I doubt it would ever lead him into a career. (no offense meant to him or anyone else, just saying what I feel) I checked that site a week or so ago, hoping for an update since the last time I had gone there. Unfortunately there's nothing new.

I've never be able to wrap my head around the idea that Rachel was still living and returning to town regularly.

The PI having requested all his paper to be destroyed - I can take that two ways. 1. Hinky and, 2. being a PI perhaps he felt the nature of the information in his files and papers shouldn't be poured over by just anyone and everyone after his death. I can understand that. But... had he intentionally took his life wouldn't ya think he'd have destroyed his files himself beforehand making sure that job was done as he wanted it to be? That in itself takes me back to ... hinky.

I look forward to any info you come up with justthinkin.

I've done a little checking into this case, and here's what I've found so far. Long post.

I don't know where it originated, but there has been some misleading information put out on this case, and then repeated on other websites and by the media.

I questioned that in 1974 the US post office could move so fast as to deliver a letter the same day as it was postmarked. Well, they didn't. The letter was postmarked on the 24th, but wasn't received until the girls had been missing for several days.

The Ft. Worth Police reported that the letter was not mailed from Weatherford or Eliasville, but was mailed in Ft. Worth. I have no idea why bogus info would be put out, but it certainly doesn't help solve this case.

Another thing, Rachel's car had been found by 6:00PM on the day the girls went missing. The stores hadn't even closed. The parents of the girls reacted quickly. When the girls didn't show up by 4:00PM the parents started worrying, and by 5:00PM, knew something was really wrong. They called the police, the hospitals, the girls' friends, everything a panicked parent would do, they did. The parents said the police initially dismissed the girls' disappearance as runaways.

I think I will call the Ft. Worth Police next Monday to find out, first hand, what info that's been made public is solid, and what isn't.

Does not look like the police think this was a random kidnapping. Tommy Trlica, Rachel's husband was under suspicion very soon after the fact, and he has not been the only suspect.

According to Rusty Arnold, his sister, Debra Arnold Hopper did finally consented to a polygraph test in 2001. At that time, Rusty Arnold expected to have the case solved shortly. Since that didn't happen, I'm guessing that Debra Hopper passed the polygraph test. I'll see what I can find out.

I don't know what else he does, but Rusty Arnold is also a singer/performer, and has written a song about the disappearance. I really don't know what to make of him. The song may have served two purposes, getting the girls names out there, but also, a more self-serving purpose. I have not yet listened to the song. It is posted online.

Rusty Arnold also claims to have very good information that his sister is alive, and returns to Ft. Worth every year around Christmas. He claims he has credible eye-witnesses, people who know, knew Rachel. I can't imagine, in all this time, if that were the case that someone wouldn't have turned her in to LE. If Rachel were alive she would have to live somewhere and work somewhere, and yet no neighbor or co-worker has come forward with a lead on her whereabouts. If they had, she would've been taken into custody, and this would've been on every TV station in the country and online.

It's been reported that Tommy Trlica offered a $2000 reward, but after a year, sold his house and moved away. I know he married a third time, and his present wife (if they haven't divorced) is a Linda Ishmael who graduated from high school in Frisco, Tx in 1976. I found her on reunion.com where she listed herself as Linda Ishmael Trlica. In 2000. they reportedly were living in east Texas. January of 2008, they were living in Galveston, Tx. Found her and Tommy Trlica listed in attendance at funeral on an obit. listing for Linda's brother. She has numerous siblings. I had to ask myself how she and Tommy Trlica met, and when. With 13 siblings, I wondered if one of her brothers wasn't working with Trlica in Ft. Worth or wasn't hanging out with him in 1974. Of course, if he left Ft. Worth, he may have moved to Frisco.

Here are a few links in no particular order:
http://www.missingtrio.com/TRIO/news41301.htm
http://tinyurl.com/8hqpxk

http://namesdatabase.com/schools/US/TX/Frisco/Frisco%20High%20School

http://www.e-cinc.com/obituariesn.html.
http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/mpccn/trlica.html
http://chriscrimeforum.freeforums.org/3-young-girls-go-to-the-mall-t987.html

I did not find the one link I really wanted to post which contained several articles from several different newspapers. I will keep looking. In the meantime, I apologize for any repetition in links that others may have already posted. I am just too tired to think.

One thing that struck me as odd, is that the families hired a P.I. to work the case in 1975. He died in 1979; his death listed as drug overdose and suicide, and "all his papers destroyed as per his request." I will check that out with the Ft. Worth Police because that sounds hinkey to me.

[tatertot]

It does make sense that the families would notice them gone by 4 p.m. since that's when Ranee had planned to be back to prepare for the Christmas party that evening. (Julie Ann had to be back by 6 p.m. according to the article on missingtrio.com.)

If the family found the car by 6 p.m., when did they move it out of the lot? The security guard says he saw the girls in a pickup with another security guard at 11:30 p.m., still on mall property. I can't see how they'd be laughing if they'd missed Ranee's party, kept a 9yo 5.5 hours past her curfew and possibly discovered their car was no longer where they'd left it in the parking lot. Unless of course they'd left the mall and were returning with the guard but hadn't discovered that the car was missing yet.

If Swaim really did order his notes on the case destroyed when they could have helped someone, that must've been a real slap in the face to the families and it makes me angry.

Why would Tommy have been a suspect? Did he have to work on Christmas Eve? You'd think they could have eliminated him as a suspect quickly if it could be proven he'd been at work.

[snowme]

I'm going to have dedicate the time to go back and re-read everything available. It's never "set" well with me about them supposedly having been seen in the truck with the mall security guy. sigh, it just doesn't make sense in a number of ways.

Just thinking aloud and making a note to myself really. It just feels like it's time for this case to have some clarity and true focus.

[justthinkin]

Thanks, snowme.

I think the info that Hutchins gave is bogus. In one of the newspaper articles it was reported that several family members set up a watch, and watched that car all night to see if the girls or anyone came back to that car. Now that makes lots of sense to me. If the police first decided the girls were runaways, then it would be up to the parents to do everything in their power until they could make believers of the police.

According to Hutchins he reported what he'd seen to the police, and never heard back, and didn't see the story in the papers anymore. So he waited until 2000 or 2001 to come forward again????....He had to have lived under a rock not to notice that story in the papers. I think he just wanted to be associated with the case in some way for a little fame. Either that or the police need to take a closer look at that guy.

He claims he worked in LE in the 60s, quit, and then went to work for Sears security. Security has always paid less than LE as far as I know, so why would he do that? Maybe he didn't quit. Maybe he was fired from LE or maybe he never worked in LE at all. There was at least one other report that the girls were seen with a security person. Maybe there's even more to it than that. Don't know.

I've been puzzling about several things. Somewhere I read that before the girls went shopping, Rachel had to drop off Tommy's little boy to the child's mother's house or apt. Then the girls went shopping. I've only seen that reported once.

Then I have read where the girls went to an Army Navy store to get some things out of layaway first before heading to the mall. The only way for someone to know that is they had to be told by one of the girls before the girls left on the shopping trip. Secondly, what was supposedly found in the car were some gift wrapped packages, and a sack with a new pair of jeans. Do they sell jeans at Army Surplus stores? I'm not aware of it if they do. If the jeans weren't bought at the surplus store, then what happened to the purchases from the surplus store? Were they in the trunk of the car?

What is the actual estimated time the girls would've arrived at the mall? I feel sure they had been abducted by 4:00PM or else, Renee would've called her mom to let her know they were running late, and they'd be late for the party. My understanding is that her mom was to attend this same Christmas party.

We need more information to work with. If Texas had an open discovery law like Florida, this case would benefit from it as would so many others. Only the prosecution benefits from privacy policies whereas, the victims, the victim's families, taxpayers, truth, the whole justice system benefits from open file discovery.

In the meantime, LE really needs to issue a clear statement of known facts about this case that have been made public, eliminating any false info floating around, and releasing any new info they can.

If anyone runs across a web page with articles on this case from several newspapers, please post a link. Until then, I'll keep looking 'til I find it.

Some detectives had been assigned back in 2001 or 2000 to work this case again. I wonder if anyone's still actively working it.

Family members are usually the first suspects in a murder case until or unless the facts present a different story. Learned that from John Douglas's book, Mind Hunter. The reason why family is first suspected is that more people are killed by family members than by anyone else. If they can't be eliminated as suspects, they're going to remain on the list of suspects.

[justthinkin]

tator,

To answer your question directly, apparently someone reported to LE that Rachel was unhappy in her marriage. That immediately would throw up a red flag to LE.

I'd like to know Trlica's whereabouts, the day before the disappearances, the day of, and the week after that. I'd like to know the time of day he first heard the girls were missing, and his reaction. I'd like to know if he went with those parents while they "staked out" Rachel's car. I'd like to know where Deb Arnold was too, and her reaction, etc. I'd like to know if any of the girls were wearing a watch, if any of them had ever spoken of meeting someone new at that mall or having a friend who worked at that mall or ever mentioned any people they knew who hung out at the mall prior to their disappearance. It's unlikely Julie Ann would've known any such persons, but the two older girls, it's a possibility.

Which two families had vacationed together? The Moseleys and the Wilsons or the Arnolds and the Wilsons? If it was the Moseleys and the Wilsons, then I think that Renee would've related to Julie Ann as an older sister might have. If that were true, she'd have been watching out for Julie Ann, and was probably why her mother let her go with the two older girls. So for that reason, I don't think the two older ones got Julie Ann into a situation that put her at risk, at least not knowingly. Renee would've felt responsible for Julie Ann. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe the older girls were wild as march hares. Don't know.

I think if I'd have been at a mall, and a younger child had accompanied me there, I don't think I would've left the mall with friends of mine, and taken a 9yr. old with me. I'd have probably told them, "sorry, some other time." Now if Rachel's husband showed up, I think I'd have treated that relationship differently, and might have gone somewhere with she, her husband, and taking the 9 yr. old with me.

It's important to think under what circumstances would these girls leave the mall, and who they might have left with if they weren't just nabbed out of the parking lot. How much influence did RacheI exert over Renee or vice versa? Which girl was the leader and which the follower? If Rachel was unhappy in her relationship, it might have been that she'd met someone else, a bad someone else (unbeknownst to her just how bad), and she could have had it set up for that person to meet them at the mall that day so her husband wouldn't find out. Heck, maybe she was friends with the boyfriend that Deb Arnold was having trouble with.

Whatever guy, maybe he brought a friend of his along with him to the mall that day, and initially Rachel left with them, leaving Renee and Julie Ann at the mall. I can see something like this happening easily. Rachel goes off with two guys, guys her age or older. Something gets out of hand, and Rachel is killed. If Renee and Julie Ann could identify the two guys Rachel left with, then Rachel's killers might have come back to the mall, lured the other two girls away from the mall, saying something was wrong with Rachel, and they needed to come quick. Then they killed the two younger girls, the only witnesses who could say Rachel was last seen in their company. It's a good theory, but I dont' know how the letter would fit into it.....

[snowme]

justthinkin, I set out to find the page that had several newspaper articles on the case for you and meandered and stumbled into something else. By the way, before I get into that, you are aware that one of the links you provided a few posts up contained several articles too, right? This one: http://tinyurl.com/8hqpxk I'm guessing it's another site you're looking for but want to be sure.

Now, in trying to find a site with several articles on it I searched a phrase like "fort worth 1974 murders" just to see if I could find something that would give me a general glimpse at what other incidents may have taken place around the general time period. I came across a well laid-out site for a cold case Carla Walker (Feb. '74). The site is the effort of a retired Detective John Terrell (FWPD). There's much information there and one thing I was looking for was if there was a hint at all that our missing girls here may be linked at all to the suspect in Miss Walker's case. Indeed, Detective Terrell believes there just might be a link. The main page for Carla Walker's case:

http://www.ejweb.com/!jfc/main.shtml

The suspect in Miss Walker's case is William Ted Wilhoit, he is a convicted sex offender currently paroled. His offender database page:

https://records.txdps.state.tx.us/DPS_WEB/SorNew/PublicSite/index.aspx?PageIndex=Individual&IND_IDN=7078246&SearchType=Name

His name really caught my attention as it seemed slightly familiar. I've heard it on local news (actually a nearby city that he has connections with, but since I live in a rural area they are considered our local stations). It gives me the creeps that he's "down the road".

Anyway, I've not read all of the case info at Miss Walker's site, I intend to. I may read it before I dive back into the information here for our three girls, just to see if anything clicks ahead of time.

[tatertot]

I'll keep looking for articles as well.

The mall must have been closed, possibly for hours, by 11:30 p.m. when the security guard said he saw the girls in a younger security guard's pickup. Presumably at this hour the lot was virtually empty, save for Rachel's abandoned car and whatever vehicle the parents were inside while they staked out her car.

The article said the two guards had a "run-in" and words were exchanged but then everyone laughed and they drove off. Er...with a background in law enforcement, would you allow one of your younger coworkers to cruise a deserted parking lot with three young girls who are out way past legal curfew? I can see him looking the other way while the younger guard cruised with the two teens he might have wanted to impress, but definitely not with a nine-year-old in the truck.


I wonder how many times during either guard's shift (the elder guard worked for Sears) the girls had been paged over the mall's intercom and whether the pages could be heard from inside the Sears store as well as the rest of the mall. If the older guard had heard the pages throughout the day and all three girls' names were mentioned, why wouldn't he have connected this to the three in the car?

A few more questions:

Was the younger guard a Sears employee or employed elsewhere in the mall? Did he work indoors or was his sole job to patrol the parking lot?

Exactly how much media attention did this case get? Were fliers posted at the mall where the older guard would have seen them on his rounds, or did police return to interview the guards? It's very hard to believe he assumed the girls had been found. Surely the guards must have discussed the disappearance on their lunch breaks or in the guard stations!

[Stella]

Wonder if the girls were victims of Henry Lee Lucas and/or Ottis Toole?

[justthinkin]

snowme,

http://tinyurl.com/8hqpxk That link must be the one I was thinking of. Like I said, I was really tired that night.

I read through the Walker case as Terrell had it, and while I admire his tenacity, I'm not sure I can agree with him about Wilhoit, and here's why.

Terrell compared Wilhoit to Bundy, and yet we don't have a string of unsolved murders over a number of years that coincide with Wilhoit's known locations. Most serial rapists graduate to murder, and stay there. They don't go back to just raping. By saying that, I am not making light of raping at all. It's a serious, serious crime.

It's hard to say if the jury was wrong in finding Wilhoit not guilty in the trial where Wilhoit was charged with attempted rape and shooting a woman. Back in those days it was thought the woman herself played a role in getting raped. Thank goodness we've grown as a society, and have come to see rape for what it is--an unprovoked attack on women.

In my unprofessional opinion, Wilhoit was a burglar, albeit, a opportunistic burglar, who would rape if opportunity presented itself.
Still, he was in the area where Carla Walker, Rachel Trlica, Renee Wilson, and Julie Ann Moseley all disappeared, and at the time couldn't be ruled out entirely. Did I read that evidence had been lost or destroyed in the Walker case? I think so. So without evidence to prove otherwise and a trial, Wilhoit is innocent, and will remain so.

Terrell claims that McCoy identified Wilhoit as the one who hit him over the head, and took Carla Walker from the car, but that was years later, and people's memory gets fuzzy after awhile. Also, the crime happened around midnight in a darkened parking lot. We have only McCoy's word on what happened there, and he moved to Alaska. It always bothers me when people move away from an area where they've been involved in a crime in some capacity.

From what I gathered from Terrell's website, Wilhoit's MO was to strike at night and attack lone women. That's the opposite circumstance of the three missing girls in Ft. Worth.

tater,
Back in those days even during Christmas time, stores closed at 9:00PM
I don't think we'd gone to them staying open 'til 10 yet. We didn't have almost instant fliers either--no computers to quickly print them out on. That would've taken several days probably.

Hutchins report just makes no sense at all. First, if the parents were staking out the car, they'd have seen both security guards and the girls. So it didn't happen the way he said. Second, if the girls had been abducted, why would they be brought back to the mall parking lot only to be taken away again? No way.
Thirdly, as you said yourself, Renee wouldn't have missed the party, and Julie Ann would've never stayed gone that long. She was just 9 yrs. old. She'd have been in so much trouble she'd have been grounded for a year. Maybe Renee too.

As much as we would like to see this case solved, I don't think it's going to ever happen unless those girls' bodies are found. Even then, their remains would have to show they'd been bludgeoned or shot or stabbed or strangled. An MO is needed to point to a known perp. And maybe the perp wasn't a known criminal.

The ME couldn't even determine the method of death in the Caylee Anthony case as there were no marks on the bones to indicate the type of foul play. Sure if the girls' bodies are found, we know they were murdered because they've been missing so long, but finding fibers from the perp/s clothing or anything else...I'm guessing would be impossible.
I've read that even bones start deteriorating after time. It's sad.

Maybe we are just hopelessly spinning our wheels on this. If nothing else, it'd be nice to bring complete closure to the parents and families of these girls. Locate the bodies so they could have a proper burial. Then at least, the worry of not knowing where the girls are would be over for these parents and families.

All we have is a point of disappearance. That's it, no blood evidence, no nothing except that letter. Was it checked against Renee's handwriting or Julie's? Don't know.

Frustration is setting in already.

[snowme]

It's hard to say if the jury was wrong in finding Wilhoit not guilty in the trial where Wilhoit was charged with attempted rape and shooting a woman.

There's so much info woven in and out and back and forth at the Carla Walker site that it was actually a little hard for me to read without backtracking often. The woman I think you're referring to with the above was Janelle K. If so, Wilhoit wasn't charged and tried for her attempted rape & shooting her 5 times in the head. Another man, Kenneth Miller, I believe was. He was the one who just walked out the court room and evaded them for something like 12 years until being caught in Las Vegas and returned to FW. He was found guilty & sentenced to 75 yrs in absentia. If that's the particular case and I am not forgetting another attempt assault in all that info!

It is written in that page tho, further down, that Wilhoit actually did confess to the crimes against Janelle K. He did so apparently because he was given immunity. (ugh)

It was also mentioned on that page that Wilhoit had said something regarding disposing of bodies (how to)... of course this was coming from another prison inmate so it's hard to assess such a thing in print... and there's the added irksome fact that it comes from yet another criminal.. who's to say.

Ret. Det. Terrell mentions that Rusty (as well as two of the mothers of our girls here) shared the letter with him and that he (Terrell) had it analyzed by the handwriting expert who determined it was not Wilhoit's handwriting... but I don't recall now what has been said here regarding the handwriting and if there was an inkling that it could have been Rachel's or Renee's maybe. I still need to go re-read here, obviously.

I don't know, I'm just not ready to dismiss Wilhoit. And it's definitely not due to the Walker page really. Terrell indicates by including the girls there that he still feels there's a link. He definitely feels Wilhoit killed Walker and attacked Janelle K. To be honest, there were several times in the reading of that page that I wanted to dismiss Terrell and his tenacity as unfortunately wrong but obsessed. In the end tho, I feel he's got something... but just not enough. So, I'm thinking Wilhoit's in the right area at the right time for this case with the added complexity of having criminal troubles following him and looming over his head like a black cloud.

Oh, regarding lost evidence in the Walker case. That was one of the excuses apparently given to Terrell when he asked about it (among about 5 other excuses, I think to simply put him off and not respond.) The Chief denied to Carla's family that any physical evidence had been lost. Again, who's to say?!

Anyway... it is indeed frustrating to think that this case (or any other for that matter) could go unsolved. Sigh, I'm off to begin re-reading this forum.

[kline]

Thanks, snowme.

I think the info that Hutchins gave is bogus. In one of the newspaper articles it was reported that several family members set up a watch, and watched that car all night to see if the girls or anyone came back to that car. Now that makes lots of sense to me. If the police first decided the girls were runaways, then it would be up to the parents to do everything in their power until they could make believers of the police.

According to Hutchins he reported what he'd seen to the police, and never heard back, and didn't see the story in the papers anymore. So he waited until 2000 or 2001 to come forward again????....He had to have lived under a rock not to notice that story in the papers. I think he just wanted to be associated with the case in some way for a little fame. Either that or the police need to take a closer look at that guy.

He claims he worked in LE in the 60s, quit, and then went to work for Sears security. Security has always paid less than LE as far as I know, so why would he do that? Maybe he didn't quit. Maybe he was fired from LE or maybe he never worked in LE at all. There was at least one other report that the girls were seen with a security person. Maybe there's even more to it than that. Don't know.

I've been puzzling about several things. Somewhere I read that before the girls went shopping, Rachel had to drop off Tommy's little boy to the child's mother's house or apt. Then the girls went shopping. I've only seen that reported once.

Then I have read where the girls went to an Army Navy store to get some things out of layaway first before heading to the mall. The only way for someone to know that is they had to be told by one of the girls before the girls left on the shopping trip. Secondly, what was supposedly found in the car were some gift wrapped packages, and a sack with a new pair of jeans. Do they sell jeans at Army Surplus stores? I'm not aware of it if they do. If the jeans weren't bought at the surplus store, then what happened to the purchases from the surplus store? Were they in the trunk of the car?

What is the actual estimated time the girls would've arrived at the mall? I feel sure they had been abducted by 4:00PM or else, Renee would've called her mom to let her know they were running late, and they'd be late for the party. My understanding is that her mom was to attend this same Christmas party.

We need more information to work with. If Texas had an open discovery law like Florida, this case would benefit from it as would so many others. Only the prosecution benefits from privacy policies whereas, the victims, the victim's families, taxpayers, truth, the whole justice system benefits from open file discovery.

In the meantime, LE really needs to issue a clear statement of known facts about this case that have been made public, eliminating any false info floating around, and releasing any new info they can.

If anyone runs across a web page with articles on this case from several newspapers, please post a link. Until then, I'll keep looking 'til I find it.

Some detectives had been assigned back in 2001 or 2000 to work this case again. I wonder if anyone's still actively working it.

Family members are usually the first suspects in a murder case until or unless the facts present a different story. Learned that from John Douglas's book, Mind Hunter. The reason why family is first suspected is that more people are killed by family members than by anyone else. If they can't be eliminated as suspects, they're going to remain on the list of suspects.For whatever its worth I used to get slightly irregular Levis 501's at an Army Navy in Missoula for like 9.00 bucks a pair back in the 70's and early 80's.

[justthinkin]

For whatever its worth I used to get slightly irregular Levis 501's at an Army Navy in Missoula for like 9.00 bucks a pair back in the 70's and early 80's.

Thanks, Kline, that was helpful.

Tomorrow, I'm going to call Ft. Worth LE, and find out if anyone is still working this case. If we can do no more than just keep this in front of the public, that in itself is doing something useful.

Stella, don't know, could be. To me, the fly in the ointment is that letter. If that letter hadn't arrived, then I'd say the girls were more likely taken by a known perp/s operating in the area at the time. Carla Walker disappeared just shortly before these girls went missing, and that could indicate a serial killer at least passing through the area if he didn't stick around long.

[kemo]

This is probably hopelessly cold bu you never know. Terrel has some interesting info on the Walker Case and if Wilhoit is good for Walker, you have to consider the possibility of this case as well.

Much of know facts of the FT Worth 3 case point towards someone one of the girls knew. (The "clean" abduction in a public place, dispossed of bodies and, most notably, the letter, are all more suggestive of an an aquaintance rather than a stranger). This proves nothing. One possible explaination for the "clean " abduction is that the perp convinced the girls to let him in their car (rather than luring or forcing them into his car). It would be easy if they knew him but he could have forced his way in with a gun rather discreatly or he could have actually charmed his way in ( if he were clean cut and well spoken like Wilhoit). He would have needed to get the car back within a couple hours but I can imagine a number possiblities.

I suspect that many of the unsolved murders and disappearences of young women(and men) and be attributed to serial killers that have been incarcerated for other serious crimes. One approach might be to identify convicts whose's record suggests the possibility of other homicides and attempt to link them to crimes that occurred near where they once lived. Convicts who are infirm or near death might be willing to give full accountings of their past crimes.

[tatertot]

I wonder what purpose the letter would have even served and why the perpetrator would have felt the need to write it. I said earlier that I imagine he didn't want the families to search for the girls right away, but if no trace of them has been found 34 years later then it doesn't seem likely they would have been at danger of being found within days of the crime.

Tommy insisted right away that Rachel didn't write the letter herself, and IMO that speaks to his innocence. If he'd written it you'd expect him to tell LE that it certainly did look like Rachel's writing.

The circa-2000 article on missingtrio.com said Rusty and P.I. Dan James believe only Rachel was still alive, but has Rusty ever said what year between 1974 and 2000 he thinks Renee died? Maybe we should be looking at Jane Does who would be about Renee's age at the time. Unless she somehow got a new SSN or her body was concealed, they couldn't have buried her as anyone other than a Jane Doe without a valid SSN for her death certificate, right?

To me, it sounds like Rusty and James think the girls joined a cult and there's not just one, but many people who were pressuring them not to return to Fort Worth. The cult theory is quite "out there" itself but it's easier for me to believe than the idea that someone has been holding them against their will and yet allowing them to come home, but not quite home, at Christmas.

[Kristin83]

I wonder what purpose the letter would have even served and why the perpetrator would have felt the need to write it. I said earlier that I imagine he didn't want the families to search for the girls right away, but if no trace of them has been found 34 years later then it doesn't seem likely they would have been at danger of being found within days of the crime.

Tommy insisted right away that Rachel didn't write the letter herself, and IMO that speaks to his innocence. If he'd written it you'd expect him to tell LE that it certainly did look like Rachel's writing.

The circa-2000 article on missingtrio.com said Rusty and P.I. Dan James believe only Rachel was still alive, but has Rusty ever said what year between 1974 and 2000 he thinks Renee died? Maybe we should be looking at Jane Does who would be about Renee's age at the time. Unless she somehow got a new SSN or her body was concealed, they couldn't have buried her as anyone other than a Jane Doe without a valid SSN for her death certificate, right?

To me, it sounds like Rusty and James think the girls joined a cult and there's not just one, but many people who were pressuring them not to return to Fort Worth. The cult theory is quite "out there" itself but it's easier for me to believe than the idea that someone has been holding them against their will and yet allowing them to come home, but not quite home, at Christmas.

I never thought of the cult idea. I suppose that does line up with what Rusty has stated.

So glad to see this thread staying alive. This case is baffling!

[Laura_Bean]

Umm. About the drug idea. That's a good one! I'll tell you why. My husband along with quite a few other people in this country are allergic to weed. My husband never tried it, but he walked into a room where other people were doing it and nearly died. They literally had to decide to call an ambulance for my husband, and did so even though it meant they would get into trouble. My husband was on the floor convulsing not from taking a drag, just from breathing it in.

Now, my question is what if someone asked the girls into the car to smoke some weed and this child was allergic? The nine year old could have died from just breathing it in, or if she tried it... Welp if the other two girls or whoever they were with were too scared of getting into trouble and didn't call an ambulance... Let's put it this way, the er doctor that saw my husband as a teen said if he had been in the room much longer he would have died from it.

If the little one died, and the two older ones knew that they were supposed to have taken care of her and protected her, and she died on their watch, would they have gone home? I doubt it. I wouldn't have as a teen. I would have been too scared. And the longer a person stays away the harder it becomes to come back or even to contact anyone.

Just a thought.

[justthinkin]

Wanted to post to bump this thread. Just read something on another thread I found quite interesting regarding profiling. If these girls were murdered, concealment of the murders seemed to be at the forefront of the perp's mind which means it's less likely they were the victims of a compulsive serial killer.

I have not yet called Ft. Worth LE though curiosity is getting to me as to why this missing trio is not currently listed as a cold case nor is Carla Walker's known murder. Can they do that, just delete unsolved cases?
Doesn't seem right at all.

[snowme]

Wanted to post to bump this thread. Just read something on another thread I found quite interesting regarding profiling. If these girls were murdered, concealment of the murders seemed to be at the forefront of the perp's mind which means it's less likely they were the victims of a compulsive serial killer.

I have not yet called Ft. Worth LE though curiosity is getting to me as to why this missing trio is not currently listed as a cold case nor is Carla Walker's known murder. Can they do that, just delete unsolved cases?
Doesn't seem right at all.


That is interesting re the profiling info.

I imagine the Walker case and our missing trio here are not on FW cold case page due to just web maintainance hassle or perhaps they rotate cases in and out of the page?? I would think that FW would have enough cold cases, actually, to fill several well-laid-out web pages. What's there looks like just a smattering... not sure how they chose. I was thinking they were newer cold cases but I did see several older ones... but none, I don't think, that were as old and stoney cold as the two (or technically 4) we've mentioned. For now, I'm willing to think it's just "not enough time to enter all the data" for all cold cases.

Let us know if & when you contact them, what you find out. I've begun reading thru everything here again already and decided I needed to take notes so I'm trying to take my time and be thorough (for my own sanity later, lol).

[SharetheLight]

Did anyone ever contact FW LE?

[Balthazar]

Thanks, snowme.

I think the info that Hutchins gave is bogus. In one of the newspaper articles it was reported that several family members set up a watch, and watched that car all night to see if the girls or anyone came back to that car. Now that makes lots of sense to me. If the police first decided the girls were runaways, then it would be up to the parents to do everything in their power until they could make believers of the police.

According to Hutchins he reported what he'd seen to the police, and never heard back, and didn't see the story in the papers anymore. So he waited until 2000 or 2001 to come forward again????....He had to have lived under a rock not to notice that story in the papers. I think he just wanted to be associated with the case in some way for a little fame. Either that or the police need to take a closer look at that guy.

He claims he worked in LE in the 60s, quit, and then went to work for Sears security. Security has always paid less than LE as far as I know, so why would he do that? Maybe he didn't quit. Maybe he was fired from LE or maybe he never worked in LE at all. There was at least one other report that the girls were seen with a security person. Maybe there's even more to it than that. Don't know.

I've been puzzling about several things. Somewhere I read that before the girls went shopping, Rachel had to drop off Tommy's little boy to the child's mother's house or apt. Then the girls went shopping. I've only seen that reported once.

Then I have read where the girls went to an Army Navy store to get some things out of layaway first before heading to the mall. The only way for someone to know that is they had to be told by one of the girls before the girls left on the shopping trip. Secondly, what was supposedly found in the car were some gift wrapped packages, and a sack with a new pair of jeans. Do they sell jeans at Army Surplus stores? I'm not aware of it if they do. If the jeans weren't bought at the surplus store, then what happened to the purchases from the surplus store? Were they in the trunk of the car?

What is the actual estimated time the girls would've arrived at the mall? I feel sure they had been abducted by 4:00PM or else, Renee would've called her mom to let her know they were running late, and they'd be late for the party. My understanding is that her mom was to attend this same Christmas party.

We need more information to work with. If Texas had an open discovery law like Florida, this case would benefit from it as would so many others. Only the prosecution benefits from privacy policies whereas, the victims, the victim's families, taxpayers, truth, the whole justice system benefits from open file discovery.

In the meantime, LE really needs to issue a clear statement of known facts about this case that have been made public, eliminating any false info floating around, and releasing any new info they can.

If anyone runs across a web page with articles on this case from several newspapers, please post a link. Until then, I'll keep looking 'til I find it.

Some detectives had been assigned back in 2001 or 2000 to work this case again. I wonder if anyone's still actively working it.

Family members are usually the first suspects in a murder case until or unless the facts present a different story. Learned that from John Douglas's book, Mind Hunter. The reason why family is first suspected is that more people are killed by family members than by anyone else. If they can't be eliminated as suspects, they're going to remain on the list of suspects.

I used to live in Ft. Worth and was a Freshman in high school there when this case happened. I have always remembered it and it has always bothered me. I never met any of the people involved in the case, but I am familiar with the area and even had a friend who lived on the same street as one of the girls, so I do know about about the lay of the land and the places involved.

Back in 1975, Seminary South was the ONLY shopping mall in Ft. Worth. It was different from other shopping malls because it was one where the stores were clustered around an island of land with covered walkways and fountains - but the Mall part was essentially outdoors. I remember it was hot in summer and really cold in winter! This mall was located on the East side of Ft. Worth and bordered to the east by a highway. Across the highway was a dangerous, gang inhabited, crime ridden neighborhood. Nearer the mall was Southwestern Seminary, which still exists today. If you want to see the lay of the land, go to Google Earth and lookup Seminary South Library Ft Worth, TX. The library is just north of the mall parking lot. Over the years, the mall has been remodeled and enclosed and turned into an outlet mall (which failed) and now it has been converted into a "Lifestyle Center" with a Mexican theme and Latino cinema and shops that obviously cater to Latino customers. Back in 1975, the majority of middle class Ft. Worthians were moving to the Southwest side of Ft. Worth to get away from the uban blight and crime by the Seminary South area. These girls families were no exception and their families lived in the area that was bordered by Hulen Street and Trail Lake Drive. These were neat, relatively new 2000 - 3000 sq ft 2 - 3 bedroom middle class homes with 2 car garages and tidy yards.

The Army Navy store was located in it's own building just a block or two away from Seminary South Shopping Mall and would have been a convenient stop along the way to the Mall for the girls. From their home, it would have taken them at least 20 - 30 minutes to reach Seminary South Shopping Mall. Despite the crime in the bordering neighborhood, this mall would have still been considered a safe place for a group of girls to shop during the day. But not at night. And, in 1975, Seminary South was the ONLY mall in the area.

[Balthazar]

I'm going to have dedicate the time to go back and re-read everything available. It's never "set" well with me about them supposedly having been seen in the truck with the mall security guy. sigh, it just doesn't make sense in a number of ways.

Just thinking aloud and making a note to myself really. It just feels like it's time for this case to have some clarity and true focus.

I, too, doubt the story about the mall security guard. But, I will say it was common practice for the mall security guard to drive you around the parking lots if you forgot where you parked your car. That is the ONLY reason I can think of for them to have been in his truck. If that even happened.

[Balthazar]

I'll keep looking for articles as well.

The mall must have been closed, possibly for hours, by 11:30 p.m. when the security guard said he saw the girls in a younger security guard's pickup. Presumably at this hour the lot was virtually empty, save for Rachel's abandoned car and whatever vehicle the parents were inside while they staked out her car.

The article said the two guards had a "run-in" and words were exchanged but then everyone laughed and they drove off. Er...with a background in law enforcement, would you allow one of your younger coworkers to cruise a deserted parking lot with three young girls who are out way past legal curfew? I can see him looking the other way while the younger guard cruised with the two teens he might have wanted to impress, but definitely not with a nine-year-old in the truck.


I wonder how many times during either guard's shift (the elder guard worked for Sears) the girls had been paged over the mall's intercom and whether the pages could be heard from inside the Sears store as well as the rest of the mall. If the older guard had heard the pages throughout the day and all three girls' names were mentioned, why wouldn't he have connected this to the three in the car?

A few more questions:

Was the younger guard a Sears employee or employed elsewhere in the mall? Did he work indoors or was his sole job to patrol the parking lot?

Exactly how much media attention did this case get? Were fliers posted at the mall where the older guard would have seen them on his rounds, or did police return to interview the guards? It's very hard to believe he assumed the girls had been found. Surely the guards must have discussed the disappearance on their lunch breaks or in the guard stations!

Because this was an outdoor type mall, I'm not sure there would have been a way to page them over the mall's intercom system back in 1975. Each store would have had their own system as well.

The case got a ton of media attention in the Ft. Worth area at the time it happened and almost every Christmas afterwards for many, many years. It was all over the Ft. Worth Star Telegram and Dallas Morning News newspapers. The Star Telegram would have had the majority of stories about the case. I remember watching news reports of it on TV every night. They even showed the girls car in the parking lot. After about 10 years, interest slacked off and then in 2001 it got media attention again.

Now, about the letter turning up the next day. It is actually possible. Ft. Worth's postal system was unusually fast. I once mailed out several thank you notes from my local post office around 7 pm on a Thursday and they arrived at the recipients houses the very next morning! The recipients called and told me this because they were so surprised!

[Balthazar]

I'll keep looking for articles as well.

The mall must have been closed, possibly for hours, by 11:30 p.m. when the security guard said he saw the girls in a younger security guard's pickup. Presumably at this hour the lot was virtually empty, save for Rachel's abandoned car and whatever vehicle the parents were inside while they staked out her car.

The article said the two guards had a "run-in" and words were exchanged but then everyone laughed and they drove off. Er...with a background in law enforcement, would you allow one of your younger coworkers to cruise a deserted parking lot with three young girls who are out way past legal curfew? I can see him looking the other way while the younger guard cruised with the two teens he might have wanted to impress, but definitely not with a nine-year-old in the truck.


I wonder how many times during either guard's shift (the elder guard worked for Sears) the girls had been paged over the mall's intercom and whether the pages could be heard from inside the Sears store as well as the rest of the mall. If the older guard had heard the pages throughout the day and all three girls' names were mentioned, why wouldn't he have connected this to the three in the car?

A few more questions:

Was the younger guard a Sears employee or employed elsewhere in the mall? Did he work indoors or was his sole job to patrol the parking lot?

Exactly how much media attention did this case get? Were fliers posted at the mall where the older guard would have seen them on his rounds, or did police return to interview the guards? It's very hard to believe he assumed the girls had been found. Surely the guards must have discussed the disappearance on their lunch breaks or in the guard stations!

In 1975, there was no curfew in Ft. Worth and many kids and high school kids would stay out or sneak out their bedroom windows and stay out to all hours.

Carla Walker - the rumor around the high schools was that she and her boyfriend were actually making out in the car at the time they were attacked. The parking lot they were in was for a bowling alley located on the south side of the Benbrook Traffic Circle. According to the story I hear, they had left the car doors unlocked. The killer merely opened the door and wailed away at the boyfriend with a baseball bat. The boyfriend was badly injured and obviously attacked from behind, so, there is no way he could be considered a suspect. As to why he moved from the area, frankly, Ft. Worth doesn't have that many job opportunities compared to other cities. I'm sure he moved for the same reason I and most of my friends moved - to live in a place with job opportunities.

4- 5 years later the police did suspect there was a serial killer in Ft Worth who was attacking and killing young women at that time. There were several disappearances of young women from around the TCU and Hulen Street areas over the course of a few months. I've never seen proof that any of those cases were solved. I do know the head of one of the young women was found in the duck pond by the frat houses at TCU by some children (reported in the Ft. Worth Star Telegram.) The police formed a special task force to investigate the disappearances, but they just ended, rather than being solved. My thought is the perp was arrested for something else.

[snowme]

I, too, doubt the story about the mall security guard. But, I will say it was common practice for the mall security guard to drive you around the parking lots if you forgot where you parked your car. That is the ONLY reason I can think of for them to have been in his truck. If that even happened.

Yes, and I'm thinking it was 10 or 11 pm (or closing time for the mall) that they were supposedly seen in that truck (if I'm recalling correctly) so it just wouldn't line up with the girls time of arriving there and the time they'd have needed to spend to do their shopping and be back home (and one of them attend a party).

I'm glad you've offered some local familiarity here. It's late so I'm going to have to come back tomorrow and drink in your posts! I've been meaning to come back and at least bump this thread up - if not get in a little reading time.. and just haven't been able to squeeze it in.

[snowme]

Did anyone ever contact FW LE?

I have not. I did attempt an email thru the missingtrio.com site but I believe it was no longer valid. In any event, no response.

I also attempted a contact (email) of the retired detective on Carla Walker's case. After reading there I thought perhaps he could give me better or perhaps more current insight into why he felt enough of a connection with our missing three girls here to have included a small discussion of their case on the Carla Walker page. Again, no response.

Hopefully I will be able to set aside some time this week to put a little time in on this.

I'm so glad to see this thread move... it's definitely not forgotten by me.

[Balthazar]

Yes, and I'm thinking it was 10 or 11 pm (or closing time for the mall) that they were supposedly seen in that truck (if I'm recalling correctly) so it just wouldn't line up with the girls time of arriving there and the time they'd have needed to spend to do their shopping and be back home (and one of them attend a party).

I'm glad you've offered some local familiarity here. It's late so I'm going to have to come back tomorrow and drink in your posts! I've been meaning to come back and at least bump this thread up - if not get in a little reading time.. and just haven't been able to squeeze it in.

I was trying to think what else I remember at the time. I believe that it was very cold that Christmas, possibly even a bit icy in the days after the disappearance of the trio. The reason that matters is because if it is icy in the DFW area, it's super hard to drive here. People don't have snow tires or chains and generally, if it ices over, the schools and many businesses close and everyone just stays home and off the roads. I seem to recall seeing newscasts at the time and seeing their car on the newcasts in the parking lot at Sears and I believe it was raining.

[DD Byrd]

Is "I know I'm going to catch it" something that a kid would have said? I've heard of it, but it seems very distinctive...

[Stella]

I was about the same age as Rachel but from Dallas. We always said "I'm gonna get it" rather than "catch it". Maybe it was one way in Ft. Worth and another in Dallas or maybe a class difference in matters of speaking. Not meaning to sound snobby here; you know what I mean.

[DD Byrd]

Either way, it sounds feminine. Written by a right hander when Rachel is a lefty.

[TexasSandman]

*Warning Long Post*
I actually grew up next door to Debra & Rusty, and got to know them both quite well at different times in our lives, and I knew Judy & Fran (Renee & Rachel's moms respectfully), because my parents were pretty good friends with them. I was only 6 at the time of the girls' disappearance but I do remember Rachel & Renee, and of course this entire incident, and it has peeked my curiousity many times over the years..which led me here.
The first thing I wanted to point out from posts on this board and news reports is this ex-cop / "security guard" that came forward in recent years and stated he never saw anything on the news or in the papers. That's a major red flag to me because, as someone else stated, this was indeed plastered all over the TV and news for many nights at the time, and every Christmas for years and years after. For him to state he assumed they were found is totally unbelieveable to me, especially if he continued working at the Mall for the days/weeks afterwards as I know it was the topic of discussion for EVERY employee. His claim that he saw them at 11:00 or so with another guard is also mind-numbing. The Mall did indeed close at 9:00 at that time, so one would assume more questions would have been asked about the three underage girls in the vehicle. Were they caught shoplifting? Were they broke down? Could they not find their car? All questions any "ex-cop" would be inclined to ask in my opinion.

I also wanted to point out that in 1974 the area around Seminary South was not a "gang land" as some posts have stated. Though in later years it did become so, at the time these 3 girls disappeared the area was still reasonably safe. In fact, my cousin and I used to walk from my house to that Mall and all around that neighborhood for several years after this before it became too scary to traverse. So I have always dismissed any "gang" involvement theories.

Which brings me to another point..someone stated it would have taken the girls 20 - 30 minutes to drive to the Mall from Rachel's house. Not so. In fact it would have been closer to 10, 15 tops if they hit all the lights. Our houses were approx 2.5 miles from the Mall according to Google Maps(4300 Town Center Drive to 5700 block of 6th Ave). If the posts are true about the girls leaving the Mall to drop off Rachel's stepson, which I don't recall ever being said at the time nor have I seen the actual news release stating this, it IS conceivable that they would return to the Mall for more shopping as it would have only taken 30 - 40 minutes out of their shopping time.

Something I haven't seen pointed out. In a newspaper article posted on the Missingtrio website Rusty maintains, there is a quote of "That, combined with DNA evidence and the way DNA is collected and processed since this case was originally investigated, makes for a better outcome," Boetcher told reporters, declining to elaborate on the DNA evidence.'
This leaves me to wonder if perhaps the envelope and stamp revealed something not yet released to the public.

I am unclear on where the information came from that the "letter" from Rachel was received a few days after the disappearances. Everything I have ever heard or read has always said it was Christmas Eve, the day after they went missing, and that the stamp was shown as canceled that same day. This is the one main thing that has always bugged me and I would like to have the same answers as another post. Who normally checked the mail? Was other mail delivered later that day? "Tommy" has already stated he doesn't recall any other mail in the box along with the letter and while the canceled stamp does seem to indicate it went through the mail system properly, it is still a great point of interest for me.

The PI that died by "suicide" is very strange to me. Why in the world would he want the records destroyed? After all that time investigating and with even the slightest chance he had found a single thing the police had overlooked would he risk destroying a chance at the truth? A chance to be the hero and help this family finally rest? Even after his own death. I find that hard to believe.

Next...as far as I know..Debra and Tommy never had a relationship after the incident and the notion that she was somehow involved in this is almost laughable to me. As I said at the begining of this post, I got to know Debra pretty good years after this, her and her husband raised their two sons right next door to me, and I really don't think she would be capable of killing her own sister and a young girl, or being involved with someone that could, or keep this secret for over 30 years.

I had heard through people still on the block that Rusty developed almost an obsessiveness on this and had started blaming Debra and, after checking out his site, I see that is true. While the articles quickly point out Debra was in rehab and she admits to bad choices in life, nothing is said about Rusty. Rusty has fought his own demons over the years and I am left wondering if that, along with this new PI, have aided in clouding Rusty's judgement on his sister's guilt. Last I had heard their mother, Fran, did not share Rusty's conclusion.

His comments that Rachel, and only Rachel, is still alive and even visits the Fort Worth area every Christmas and yet he won't reveal why he believes this, is very troubling. I would think his site would be chalk full of the known evidence..a timeline..and maybe even last sightings..along with what HIS theory is. Yet he has none of this, makes no attempt to correct disreprencies in the news articles, nor explain why he points blame at Debra. Since the site hasn't been updated in several years and recent or unique news articles on this are slim to none, I am unsure if Debra ever agreed to the polygraph test or not. If not, I do have to wonder why, if she indeed "has nothing to hide" and if she completed the test, did she pass or fail it? Did she leave areas of doubt? Why exactly is Rusty so certain his sister is involved?

Rusty and I were pretty good friends at one point..heck he was my "boss" at my very first job selling newspaper subscriptions door-to-door, and while he may have done some crazy things in his life and be as bullheaded as the day is long, he is a very passionate and loving person and I know he would not put Debra, and the rest of their family and the other girls' families, through this unless he was certain in his heart of what he believes.

I noticed on the letter to Debra that everyone had signed it except Fran. I am not sure if this is due to her disagreement with it, or if she had passed on. This goes back to my earlier question of why not publish what they think? Apparently they haven't hidden that fact from Debra..so what could they reveal that isn't already known? I am very curious as to why Debra is being looked at on this.

Unfortunately I haven't been back to the neighborhood in quite a few years and I have lost contact with most everyone, though finding this site and reading over the facts has me considering a trip by when I visit the area next month. I hope I added something to the conversation and hopefully someday we'll be able to discuss the ending of this case. Someone out there knows something. Whether friend or foe, family or stranger, whomever it is needs to come forward. These girls' didn't deserve whatever happened to them and these families don't deserve the hell of not knowing and being torn apart by accusations and guilt.

I think I may well take the time to go by and see Rusty..if I do and he doesn't mind, I will post an update here. Maybe I can talk him into a more informative website as well.

Anyway..I joined the site for this particular thread but Im going to check the rest out..seems like a place I might enjoy.

Thanks in advance for reading.

Pray for the girls.
Pray for the families.
Pray for resolution.

[Balthazar]

TexasSandman, no offense, but my family owned a great deal of rental property in the area which is directly across the highway from Seminary South - to the east of the mall. This property had been in my family since the 1920's. Perhaps you don't remember quite how bad that area was in 1974, but I do. It was not a safe area in 1974, and today it is not a safe area, NOT at all. The areas directly surrounding the mall, on the west side of the highway were lower middle class to middle class at the time - not bad at all. But the area across the highway to the east was very, VERY dangerous.

When I sent out thank you notes for a party thrown for me one afternoon - I had written the notes IMMEDIATELY after the afternoon party and mailed them that evening - the recipients got them the next day and actually called about it as it seemed so unusual. So, I don't know if the note that was supposedly sent and postmarked the next day is real or not. But I do know it is possible based on what happened with my thank you notes from that party.

And I totally agree, the trio didn't deserve whatever it is that happened to them and their families don't deserve not knowing what happened either. This is a crime that deserves attention and must be solved.

[6angels]

maybe they should look at postal workers that worked back then. jmo

[TexasSandman]

Princess I don't dispute that the East side of the highway was a "bad" neighborhood...but in 1974 Fort Worth was not experiencing the "gang" issues that other citys were or like Fort Worth has now. Theres no way my parents would have let us walk those streets if they were dangerous and while there were plenty of "punks" in the area..it was by no means a "gang land".

I also understand what you're saying about the mail and your "thank you" letters arriving promptly. My problem with this is that in 1974, and many years afterwards, our postal carrier in that neighborhood was not an early arriver. In fact, as far as I recall, our mail never came before noon. Heck there were many days I can recall the mail not arriving until after I had gotten home from school..so after 3 in the afternoon. Since the reports state the letter came "that morning" I am very curious as to whether other mail was received later that day or if anyone even checked. After the shock of the letter I wouldn't be surprised if the mail wasn't checked again until a day or two after Christmas.

I am sure Tommy's whereabouts for that day have been scrutinized a thousand times...Debra's too..but I would certainly like to get my hands on those reports and interviews. I've seen a few posts around the web where people point at the shoddy police work in this case or that there was corruption and/or a coverup and I would like to determine this myself from all the facts in the case.

My teeth are now sunk into this one once again and I have written to the FWPD to see how I can go about obtaining the public records on this case. I'll let you all know what I hear.

Another facinating case from the same area and decade is the Cullen Davis Mansion murders/shootings. Not sure if it is discussed on this board but haven't been able to find anything so far. While it certainly has nothing to do with this particular case..it does go a long way towards revealing the FWPD's detective skills for the time.

Again with the missingtrio website not having been updated since 02, and the last real posting mentioned the new detectives assigned to the case, I am VERY curious to see the records. The Freedom Of Information Act should at least get me the public records and I am determined to get my hands on them.

[Balthazar]

TexasSandman: Thanks for working to get information on this case.

We always had morning mail delivery - at my Grandmother's house (Tanglewood) - where we lived for over a year until the house my parents were building was complete, we got mail about 9 am. Then at my parents house - in Ridglea (different post office) - we got mail around 10 am most days until the 1990's when it started coming around 1 pm.

[TexasSandman]

The post office for our area was located on Felix Street..just a few blocks from the Mall the Trio disappeared from. Again I'm not certain but I don't recall us ever getting morning mail there. I lived in that same house until 88 or so..and I remember getting afternoon mail.
Reading some more news clippings and other websites, Rusty seems to think Debra wrote the letter and I am curious as to why exactly. I saw a posting somewhere that said LE was also of the opinion that Debra knew more than she was revealing..if so...why? And I'm very intrigued about the polygraph..I know if it was me being accused by my family of killing my own sister..I'd take sodium pentathol to prove my innocence...but did she take the lie detector or not is still unclear to me.

Rusty also states that someone is "keeping" Rachel from contacting her family yet she visits the FW area regularly AND she's the only one left alive. How does his theory on Debra tie into that? And if "reliable witnesses that knew Rachel" have spotted her, why haven't they approached her? I know if I saw her I would tackle her and hold her to the ground until her brother could come get some damn answers.
IMHO Rusty may have done more to cloud the case than to help it as some of these ideas, without properly backing them up, seem more than slightly outlandish. If you're going to point the finger and make claims..at least explain why you think this. It's been almost 35 years since these girls disappeared...if you think you know what happened...make it public..why keep it secret..make it public and let the masses decide.
There is very little actual "facts" available on this case and I find that strange. There is only clips and snips here and there and most places provide just the same basic information. I haven't heard back from FWPD but I will give it to Monday and then call if I need to. The 35th anniversary is this year and, as it has been 7 years since the new detectives were assigned exclusively to the case, I'd personally like to see another fire lit under this case.

[Balthazar]

From what I have read, it looks like Debra took the polygraph in 1991. No information about the results, however.

I too have wondered how Rusty could know that one of the girls survived, but knows the other two are dead, one early on and then one later. This is just thinking outside the box and with no proof or anything that points to this to really back up the idea. But if one is allowed to come back to Ft. Worth at Christmas, but not see her family, could it be they joined a cult? Why else would she not be allowed to see her family?

Yet, missing the Christmas party and date, the wrapped gifts in the car - these don't sound to me like the things you would expect to see from one or more girls who wanted to join a cult. Why wouldn't they have taken stuff - or at least clothes - with them if that was the case.

About the mail, it is sorted overnight and deliveries begin in the early morning - so delivery time would depend on where your house is on the postman's route.

I am a bit confused about where you say the girls lived as one of them definitely lived on the same street as my friend from high school. I wish I could remember the name of her street, but it was off Trail Lake Drive. Maybe it was the 9 year old's house? Unfortunately, I have not been able to find my friend and I have been unable to locate her parents to ask them - they would be in their 80's, if either was still alive. So that may be a dead end.

[Balthazar]

The most recent Ft.. Worth Star Telegram article on the missing trio was published 2006-05-21 by Mike Cochran who is a Pulitzer prize winning author. Perhaps he could be contacted for more information. I found this email address for him. No idea if it is still valid:

mcochran@iglobal.net

Perhaps it would be worthwhile to contact him regarding this case? I see he has written a lot about true crime and surely did quite a bit of research for his 2006 article on the trio case. The article is available (for $2.95) from the Ft. Worth Star Telegram archive. I found the article by going to www.startelegram.com (http://www.startelegram.com) and searching the archive for Rachel Trlica.

[TexasSandman]

Princess..Rachel, Rusty, Debra, and myself all lived off Edgecliff road..near Greenbriar Elementary. Renee lived right off James Ave, so it must have been Julie that lived near your friend.
The runaway and cult theories have always given me a raised eyebrow for the very same reasons you stated,...the presents...lack of clothes...leaving the car..and taking 9 year old Julie with them. It just doesn't make any sense why they would let Julie tag along, take the time to pick up layaway items, & go shopping for more Christmas presents if they were planning to run away. If they were joining a cult I wouldn't think they would want the publicity of the missing 9 year old.
I wish Rusty would reveal his theories. When you look at them from the outside like this they don't seem to make much sense. Rusty was only 11 when the girls disappeared, and i know it was always a sore spot with him, so I wonder if there are things he heard and saw at the time that are giving him suspicions about Debra. One would assume that if Debra had something to do with this, then it is her that is keeping Rachel from contacting her family. Which would only make sense if it was something like a previous poster theorized and was a case of blackmail.
Hmm...so maybe Rusty thinks it's something along these lines...Debra & Tommy were still having a sexual relationship and Debra, knowing where the girls were going that day but not knowing that Julie was tagging along, went to the Mall to confess to her sister. With the crowded Mall and the young ears close at hand, Debra invites the other girls to go to a park and get high, or maybe to get some liquor for the upcoming party that night, some pretense to get them away from the Mall so Rachel is forced to hear her out. At some point a physical fight breaks out, maybe Debra had planned to get rid of the "competition" all along and had a gun with her..maybe she planned to kill Rachel and Renee and make it look like a murder/suicide..she pulls out the gun and something goes wrong..Rachel grabbed it or Debra and Rachel wrestle and the gun goes off and kills Julie..maybe Renee as well..and the murder weapon was in Rachel's hand...or she shoots at Debra and misses..hitting the other two girls. They freak out of course, quickly forgeting all about the reason they were fighting, and they hide the bodies. Big sister Debra tells Rachel to disappear...puts her on a bus with what little cash she has and, big sister knowing best, tells her she can never return home or she'll get the death penalty for the two girl's murders. Rachel returns to Fort Worth every Christmas out of guilt over the girls.
Well that's the best I can come up with right now with these "clues" we have from Rusty. Lemme know what ya think

[Balthazar]

This really is the most frustrating case.

OK, just playing devil's advocate. It would be hard to find the 3 girls at the mall and even back then, that was a pretty big mall with lots of shops that had their own paging system, so it would be pretty tough to find them.

Maybe the predator waited near their car until they came out of the mall. Either this person recognized their car or saw them get out of their car. The predator could have done something to make them come with him or her, like take the distributor cap or remove the cables from the battery. Then, the car is disabled, but the predator happens to be there to 'help' them. The predator just pulls up like s/he's just passing by and offers to help and all 3 girls get in the car for a drive to nowhere.
Later the predator returns and makes a quick fix to the car so no one knows what happened.

Since there were wrapped Christmas presents in the car, I am theorizing that the girls were confronted by someone after they finished shopping and were putting the presents in the car or they get in the car and it won't start and they get out, lock the car and start to go back in the mall to call family for help when someone approaches to "help" them.

Yet, how could 1 person subdue 3 girls? So logically it was either someone they knew or more than one person.

Then thinking logically, what the heck happened to the bodies? 1 body is hard enough to dispose of, 2 - 3 much more difficult. If they were shot or stabbed, there would have been blood where that happened and probably also on the killer.

It would be helpful to know where the various players in this case were during the time the girls were at the mall leading up to their disappearance. I do think the security guard's story is more than bizarre. Especially with all the press coverage of this case and not coming forward until 2000. Not knowing the girls were still missing is pretty unbelievable.

TexasSandman: As to your theory, it's hard to know. Was this woman large and strong enough to dispose of 1 to 2 bodies? Did she have access to guns at home? Would Rachel, as an adult be naive enough to believe she would be in trouble with the law for a self-defense type incident? Why wouldn't she hire a defense attorney, tell him her story and turn herself in? If one or more of the other girls were shot and killed accidentally while Rachel was defending herself, I doubt there is a court in the land that would convict her. Even if she was involved in hiding the bodies, I think most juries would be sympathetic to her, especially if she was betrayed by a family member.

[Balthazar]

This link is to a very detailed article about the serial killer Curtis Brown who may have killed 30 women in Ft. Worth in the early to mid 1980's. He appears to have moved to Ft. Worth in 1983, after getting out of prison for armed robbery, to live with his mom and the killings began immediately afterwards. Apparently when he was 13 there was a house fire where his mom was burned and 2 younger siblings died and he escaped unscathed. It makes one wonder exactly what caused the fire.

http://www.officialcoldcaseinvestigations.com/showthread.php?t=7307

I don't believe he is related to the trio case since it appears he was not in Ft. Worth until 1983. I am very happy to learn the serial killings have finally been solved, albeit 20 years later.

[Balthazar]

I bought a copy of the article by Mike Cochran. There isn't much new information with the exception of this:

In 2001, 20 new witnesses emerged some of whom said they saw the girls on the day that they disappeared. Homicide detective Dan Boetcher believes that they left the mall with someone they trusted and is quoted in the article:
" "We can say that they were at one point seen with one individual, but we believe there was more than one involved."
Detectives have narrowed the number of suspects to "under five," he said. They believe that after leaving the mall, the girls encountered "foul play and met up with some unfortunate circumstances." "

These statements make me think that perhaps one of the girls was specifically targeted and the other two may have been "collateral damage" in this case. It seems to me the girls had finished their Christmas shopping and put the gifts in the car and then went with this person or persons with the plan of doing something for a short amount of time nearby and then coming back to their car and go home in time for the party. Perhaps they were going to buy drugs or alchohol. Or thought they were.

[TexasSandman]

Yeah from what I can tell Curtis Brown was around 12 or 13 at the time of the Trio case. But that was certainly a good read..I was in high school at the time of all those murders and I don't recall anythign about the city being "gripped in fear". Many of those victims were murdered or found in areas I ran in..I do recall the body being found in TCU lake tho...I remember the gruesomeness of it because college kids found her head.

Interesting find on the Cochran article tho..I wonder who they were seen with..that's the first I've ever heard of that. I'd love to know who the five suspects are..I'm sure Debra is one of them, and perhaps Tommy..but that still leaves 3 unknowns.
Also, If Debra took the polygraph in '91, why were the families still asking her to cooperate and take one in response to her answers in the 2000 article?
You're right, this is indeed a frustrating case. I still haven't heard anything back from the FWPD Missing Persons Division..I am going to try and call them directly this next week..I have GOT to see the public records on this.

[TexasSandman]

Just listened to Rusty's radio interview on the missingtrio website and heard a couple of things. First off he seems to think something happened to Julie that made the older girls run...he says they were seen at a gas station the following morning getting into the pickup truck of the station's owner, and he stated to an employee that he was taking them to the bus station to head to Houston but first was going to get him a "little". Rusty goes on to say that that same employee went to his boss' house a few days later and saw blood stains and fresh digging in the yard. Rusty states the man would be in his 80's at the time of the interview and they have been unable to locate him.
Rusty then goes on to say there was another suspect, a family friend, but doesn't give a reason why and says the man is now deceased. And he never was a suspect until after he was dead.
Apparently Debra did indeed take a polygraph and the results indicated, at least in Rusty's viewpoint, she may know more about the disappearences than she has revealed.

He says more than once that the case centers around young Julie. "Something had to happen to her to make the other two not come home. And yes I'm saying I think she's alive." Refering to Rachel

He is also estranged from his mother Fran over this. (I knew she didn't share his theories but didn't know they were no longer speaking)

The biggest thing that struck me is the interviewer asked why Rachel wouldn't have contacted him and Rusty says "Whos to say she hasn't?" The interviewer didn't seem to catch this and says "And you just don't know about it?"
Rusty stammers and then says "Yeah, who's to say that she hasn't? And that ought to open alot of doors for you if you think about it with what I told you wallago."
I listened three times and it sure seems to me that Rusty is eluding to the fact that he has indeed heard from her.
Rusty seemed to think there would be something enlightening very soon, he said something about the police interviewing someone soon, and at the end he restates the recent polygraph.
If you haven't listened to it, I highly recommend doing so. I had to install a plugin for it but it was quick and was direct from microsoft. It's in the upper left corner of the missingtrio.com website. It will also let you watch a local TV News segment on the girls. Nothing new mentioned in it but they do restate that the police think they left with someone they knew, and then met with foul play.
With the 35th anniversary approaching I am hopeful we will see more press releases and interviews. This case needs another big round of media coverage. DNA has been mentioned several times, and that was in 2000 or 2001, methods and technology have come a long way since then..maybe it's time to examine the evidence once more.

[Balthazar]

"Blood stains and fresh digging in the yard" ?! Well if Rusty knows who this gas station employee is, who cares if they can find the owner today, all the police need to know is where he lived at the time! My gosh, why on earth wouldn't this guy report this to the police when he saw it? And even so, years later, he should report it and the police need to go to that house and check - no matter who lives there now, the blood evidence should still be present, even if the house has been redecorated and repainted. Even if the the guy can't remember where the man lived, he must know what neighborhood and what gas station he owned. The police could figure it out from there.

But NO MATTER what happened to Julie, if one or both are alive, there is NO reason for the other two girls to stay away. They are ruining their parents/family's and the Mosely family's lives by staying away. It is obvious from the circumstances that this could not be a premeditated murder by the older two girls - worst case scenario it might be accidental manslaughter, but I really doubt that they would be punished for some misadventure that happened when they were teens and underage minors at that. If any of these girls are still alive, they must, MUST come back. In case they read here, my suggestion is that they hire a criminal attorney and explain to him what happened and get his advice on how to handle this. They can do this in a one hour consultation to limit the cost to them. I seriously doubt that they are in as much trouble as they may believe they are. After hearing their story, the attorney may even agree to work for them pro bono due to the infamous nature of this case.

[snowme]

Is "I know I'm going to catch it" something that a kid would have said? I've heard of it, but it seems very distinctive...

I've heard it quite a bit. Going to catch it, going to get it... meaning trouble... Not sure I'd say it was necessarily a boy or girl thing... or a regional thing even... but I would say it speaks of another time. (LOL, perhaps that has to do with these days kids usually don't catch it for anything they do... or so it seems ;-)

[snowme]

TexasSandman (welcome!) and Princess Rose, I just want to say I am so glad to see the discussion going on.

Of course I am once again signing on late and wishing I had more time tonite to put in here. In an effort to participate without making too many posts I'm going to quote within this one some of the things I wanted to comment on.

TexasSandman said: The PI that died by "suicide" is very strange to me. Why in the world would he want the records destroyed? After all that time investigating and with even the slightest chance he had found a single thing the police had overlooked would he risk destroying a chance at the truth? A chance to be the hero and help this family finally rest? Even after his own death. I find that hard to believe.
I go back and forth regarding the destruction of any papers from the private investigator. Part of me says... if he were investigating for me (but for some odd reason had not filled me in on what he may have documented) I would actually appreciate the destruction of whatever it was.... because in order for it to (hopefully) get to me after his death... it would have to go thru someone else and the private nature is lost. Eh... I only like that idea about 10%. The other 90% constantly likes the idea that this private investigator had nothing of value and papers being destroyed is a convenient way of never letting it be known for sure that said private eye had done a poor job and perhaps even shafted the client in truth.

I won't keep quoting from your post but I am still responding to things you've written, TexasSandman:

I feel sad when I think of Rusty, in particular. I immediately sensed he was obsessive regarding his theories.. and truly, I can imagine why he would be... I most likely would be too. But I think if he really had (or if anyone, like friends who had seen Rachel at Christmas times) a valid reason for believing Rachel was alive and making these annual eery visits... he would have come out with it... explained his reasoning. I feel that he's thought thru enough to give himself reasons why she cannot contact him or others but yet this reasoning keeps her alive for him. He doesn't have to truly and finally cope with the probable fact that she's dead. It's his way of coping with the trauma.

From all I've read (articles, discussion, the missingtrio site) I get the feeling the only reason a shadow of doubt was cast on Debra was that she had dated Rachel's husband prior to their marriage, and the living arrangement at the time, and the thing about her having been asked if she wanted to go shopping that day and she opted not to. The first two things alone are just the juicy gossipy type of stuff that they make those harlequin novels out of, isn't it?! And the third thing just adds that shadowy touch...

Quite often in families where this kind of tragedy and mystery has ocurred it seems to continue on, another round or two... no doubt some percieved and some quite real due to choices made in the throes of coping. (The Stayners come to mind (Stephen - abducted, Cary - a serial killer).. no defending Cary Stayner's actions but who's to say if the first traumatic thing hadn't happened that perhaps he wouldn't have developed that twisted desire? Trauma causes changes to the fabric. Sorry to get off track.) It sounds to me that Debra made bad choices (don't we all) but that she recognizes and admits them. I think this hurt her as badly as all involved and unfortunately she's probably had to handle it quite alone due to the "shadows of doubt".

Seems to me her poly proved inconclusive and that was why even after having taken one others were still asking for more. I remember being left with the feeling that Debra felt she had done it, she had done what they asked and what she could and that was enough. If it's so that it was inconclusive any number of ideas in her head (they all doubt me, etc.) would have likely affected the outcome. I'm going on recollection, so don't hold me to that.

I hope that you will be able to make contact with Rusty or Debra. I would hope also that they wouldn't mind your sharing some of what you may clear up thru a visit, with us. After all, we all want the same thing... resolution for these three girls and their loved ones.

I also hope you hear from FWPD or somehow get your hands on the available records. Definitely interested in anything you come up with. And, welcome to websleuths, very glad you found it and this thread!

Princess Rose:

Thanks for the links and info from the article. I wonder if "this one individual" they say for sure the girls were seen with... is the security guard?? Ack, if so. Not recalling if anywhere prior in the thread that it was narrowed down who "one individual" could viably have been.

I'll have to read the Curtis Brown link tomorrow. I'm sure I ran across a bit on him before when really digging into this thread. Which also reminds me just how creeped out I was about the guy (and I'm blanking on his name at the moment!) who was suspected of killing Carla Walker. Several months ago when I was reading all of that I remember feeling like some things were connecting... time wise, area wise, not only with the creep I'm forgetting the name of but with the timing of the girls disappearance.. weaving in prison stints for the creep, the fact that his family had an out of the way farm, and ... the retired detective from the Carla Walker case stating on her site that in searching for our three girls the path of the creep was crossed. (I want to say (if I'm remembering accurately) that for some odd reason they were searched for in an area where the creep had either been in prison or had been released and stayed in that area for a bit.

I'm probably getting confusing (so sorry) but I'm sure I explained it better a few months back when I originally posted regarding it. The thought of this guy still creeps me out with regard to a possible connection to these girls. I remember also checking on creepo's current whereabouts and finding that he's still in TX.

To spare everyone anymore late nite confused rambling I'll close for now and try very hard to get make time (earlier) tomorrow.

[Kristin83]

I have no idea what to think about this case, but I just wanted to say I'm so glad to see activity on this thread. Please, let's keep this thread alive.

[Balthazar]

TexasSandman: I do remember the city being gripped by terror when they believed there was a serial killer on the loose. I was around 20 at the time and going to TCU. There were lots of announcements at the school about NOT walking anywhere alone and they beefed up the security at the school big time. There was a run on mace at the stores - I remember it being hard to get because everyone wanted some. One day while driving home from school on Hulen St. I noticed a pickup truck that kept going the same speed as my car. I was driving a Camarro, so I couldn't see the driver as he was driving on my left. The car started squeezing me over, so thinking he was drunk, I speeded up to get away from him but he speeded up, then I slowed down and he slowed down. I speeded up and slowed down twice more trying to evade him with him following suit. As you can imagine, I was getting pretty darn scared, so I floored it and then suddenly hit the brake just in time for him to turn down the road where the synagogue was being built, hitting the front corner of my car with his rear bumper. He attempted to have me follow him down a road where there was construction and vacant lots but no one around. Fortunately, I had sense enough not to follow him. I memorized his license plate number and took note of the fact that although it was a warm sunny spring day he was wearing a hunting hat with earflaps and the kind of coat deer hunters wear. I drove home, making sure he was not following me and called the police - when I told them my story, they put me right through to the serial killer task force and sent detectives out to take a statement from me that day. The damage to my car was pretty slight - he just clipped the front corner so my dad just had it fixed - it cost almost nothing and my dad didn't want the man to learn where I lived. To make a long story short, it was an African American man. It could have been Curtis Brown. I guess I'll never know.

Snowme: I think you are thinking about William Ted Wilhoit who hinted to John Terrell, the PI that he was responsible for Carla's murder. He was parolled in January 2003 after being in Texas Correctional System for 22 years.

One of Carla Walker's relatives has turned up under the name of Mickey on dreamin demon dot com I don't know if I can link to that site here, but there is a thread about Carla Walker. Mickey last posted on April 8, 2009. She is in contact with John Terrell.

[snowme]

Yes, Wilhoit is who I was referring to! His brushes with the law (from what I have read) could fit time-wise. I was just checking his status and googled his address and work on record. I pass right by his place on the way to see my sister-in-law... and if that isn't enough to give me the ick-factor... his workplace is just across the road from my s-i-l's home. sheesh. I'd like to think he's nothing to worry over... but I guess I'm glad to know I may be crossing his path. *shudder*

TexasSandman: I do remember the city being gripped by terror when they believed there was a serial killer on the loose. I was around 20 at the time and going to TCU. There were lots of announcements at the school about NOT walking anywhere alone and they beefed up the security at the school big time. There was a run on mace at the stores - I remember it being hard to get because everyone wanted some. One day while driving home from school on Hulen St. I noticed a pickup truck that kept going the same speed as my car. I was driving a Camarro, so I couldn't see the driver as he was driving on my left. The car started squeezing me over, so thinking he was drunk, I speeded up to get away from him but he speeded up, then I slowed down and he slowed down. I speeded up and slowed down twice more trying to evade him with him following suit. As you can imagine, I was getting pretty darn scared, so I floored it and then suddenly hit the brake just in time for him to turn down the road where the synagogue was being built, hitting the front corner of my car with his rear bumper. He attempted to have me follow him down a road where there was construction and vacant lots but no one around. Fortunately, I had sense enough not to follow him. I memorized his license plate number and took note of the fact that although it was a warm sunny spring day he was wearing a hunting hat with earflaps and the kind of coat deer hunters wear. I drove home, making sure he was not following me and called the police - when I told them my story, they put me right through to the serial killer task force and sent detectives out to take a statement from me that day. The damage to my car was pretty slight - he just clipped the front corner so my dad just had it fixed - it cost almost nothing and my dad didn't want the man to learn where I lived. To make a long story short, it was an African American man. It could have been Curtis Brown. I guess I'll never know.

Snowme: I think you are thinking about William Ted Wilhoit who hinted to John Terrell, the PI that he was responsible for Carla's murder. He was parolled in January 2003 after being in Texas Correctional System for 22 years.

One of Carla Walker's relatives has turned up under the name of Mickey on dreamin demon dot com I don't know if I can link to that site here, but there is a thread about Carla Walker. Mickey last posted on April 8, 2009. She is in contact with John Terrell.

[snowme]

Just to give everyone a "heads up"... the missingtrio.com site has been ever so slightly updated. I don't see any new info there but the date on the bottom didn't use to include 2009 and there seems to be some newer code within the site in general. Perhaps Rusty is around??

[TexasSandman]

Hey all..I just got off the phone with Rusty. The main reason there hasn't been any updates in a few years is because the police have requested that it stay out of the media. They are still actively investigating and even used ground penetrating radar on someone's yard recently. We didn't get to talk long but he did make it clear that at this point he doesn't want me to reveal anything here, so I am certainly going to respect that. But he did say that there is a lot going on with the investigation and no one known from the case has been ruled out as a suspect. Rusty and I are going to get together at the end of May to discuss this some more and we plan to talk via email more in the coming days. Though I won't reveal anything he asks me not to, I will try to update you folks as much as I can.

[snowme]

Thanks for letting us know, TexasSandman. It's good to hear that you've talked with Rusty and that something is going on regarding the case/investigation. I can certainly understand keeping his confidence.

Please do pass on to him, tho, that "we" are hoping for resolution for his and all families involved.

I certainly hope something breaks in this case!

Hey all..I just got off the phone with Rusty. The main reason there hasn't been any updates in a few years is because the police have requested that it stay out of the media. They are still actively investigating and even used ground penetrating radar on someone's yard recently. We didn't get to talk long but he did make it clear that at this point he doesn't want me to reveal anything here, so I am certainly going to respect that. But he did say that there is a lot going on with the investigation and no one known from the case has been ruled out as a suspect. Rusty and I are going to get together at the end of May to discuss this some more and we plan to talk via email more in the coming days. Though I won't reveal anything he asks me not to, I will try to update you folks as much as I can.

[TexasSandman]

been a couple of days...time for a bump ;)

[snowme]

Still thinking of these girls and their loved ones. I hope there are some answers coming sometime soon.

[Balthazar]

I am very excited to hear that the police are still actively pursuing this case and that perhaps some progress has been made. This has troubled for so long. I do hope that there will be answers for the families most especially.

[tatertot]

Thank you for the update, TexasSandman, and it's great that you respect Rusty's decision not to divulge any information that would compromise this.

Something hit me the other day: It sounds like Rachel was very attached to her two-year-old stepson and would never have allowed any harm to come to him. If she saw someone she knew kill an innocent nine-year-old in cold blood, she wouldn't run away and not even call her family to warn them they had a child-killer in their midst who might target Tommy's son next! Even if that person had her convinced she'd be blamed for Julie's death and she felt the need to run, IMHO she'd have at least called someone in the family like Tommy's ex-wife. I think if Rachel is still alive that would indicate Debra and Tommy are both innocent.

Like Princess Rose said, it makes no sense that the gas station employee didn't report a possible double murder (and rape, as the man's boss made that comment about "getting a little.") I haven't listened to the interview yet but will very soon; did the former employee notice anything unusual about the girls' demeanor the next morning? They were likely very sad or terrified depending on what they'd witnessed the day before.

IMHO the gas station scenario makes more sense than the idea they were harmed by someone they knew, though I don't see why the owner would write a fake letter from Rachel and mail it to her house. It is interesting that the station owner told his employee he was taking the girls to catch a bus for Houston and that's where the letter claimed they'd gone. At any rate I think it's time to find an example of the former owner's handwriting. There should be at least some surviving documents from his business.

[deige]

I am the sister of rachel trlica. If you want the real facts about my sisters case ask me anything. My brother was 11 when she disppeared and really has some messed up and twisted memories of that period of our life. Texas Sandman when you talk to Rusty please tell him enough is enough . I have passed not one but two polygragh test.One for the FBI. I have given my DNA and still Rusty want stop the torture and pain he is inflicting on his family. I LOVED MY SISTER AND WOULD NEVER EVER PUT HER IN ANY DANGER. I am innocent of all of Rustys accusations. He has never once ask me face to face about anything. I love him but he has some deeped rooted mental problems that came with self medicating through the years to ease the pain. I did the same thing. The pain never goes
away.There is no closure. So for all of you that find yourself hooked on this case you can't even begin to imagine of not knowing. Please don't judge me. You only have contorted and screwed up facts. Facts that were fabricated by PI Dan James and made sense for Rusty. Dan James wanted publicity for self serving purposes an used my sister and brother as a pawn.. My heart is broken.

[Kristin83]

I am the sister of rachel trlica. If you want the real facts about my sisters case ask me anything. My brother was 11 when she disppeared and really has some messed up and twisted memories of that period of our life. Texas Sandman when you talk to Rusty please tell him enough is enough . I have passed not one but two polygragh test.One for the FBI. I have given my DNA and still Rusty want stop the torture and pain he is inflicting on his family. I LOVED MY SISTER AND WOULD NEVER EVER PUT HER IN ANY DANGER. I am innocent of all of Rustys accusations. He has never once ask me face to face about anything. I love him but he has some deeped rooted mental problems that came with self medicating through the years to ease the pain. I did the same thing. The pain never goes
away.There is no closure. So for all of you that find yourself hooked on this case you can't even begin to imagine of not knowing. Please don't judge me. You only have contorted and screwed up facts. Facts that were fabricated by PI Dan James and made sense for Rusty. Dan James wanted publicity for self serving purposes an used my sister and brother as a pawn.. My heart is broken.

Deige....I am assuming you are Debra? I'm so sorry about your sister, and for everything your family has been through. I can't even begin to imagine.

Do you personally have any theories of what happened to your dear sister, and the two other girls? I'm really glad you came on to post.

Again, my deepest sympathies to your family.

[tatertot]

Debra, I am sorry for the pain you and your family have gone through over the years. IMHO, Rusty owes it to you to mention on the missingtrio.com website that you passed the two polygraph tests, and if he is reading this I hope he includes that information on his next update. On his site he only has a nine-year-old letter requesting that you take the test. :(

If you don't mind my asking, I do have one question about P.I. Swaim, who committed suicide in 1979 and had his records destroyed. A Websleuths member suggested he might have ordered the records destroyed to hide the fact that he hadn't uncovered anything significant about the disappearances, and have your family members ever said they believe that might be the case?

[justthinkin]

deige,

I am so sorry for all you and your family and the other 2 families have gone through over the years. I can't begin to imagine the relentless pain or the pain heaped on other pain that something like this can produce. I'm not a stranger to violent death so I do know something of what those left
behind go through.

I'm sorry you feel judged. Those close to a case, any case, are going to get close scrutiny at some point. I wish there was some other way, but there's not. Everything that's done here is done in the hopes of bringing someone home so families can give their loved ones a true, resting place.

Law Enforcement can do things behind closed doors so to speak that we can't do here. Here it's all out in the open for better or worse. That you've been put under a microscope is less a reflection of you, and more a reflection of the process of elimination.

As far as your brother's concerned, you may be able to request a gag order to prevent him from throwing insinuations your way on the internet in conjunction with your sister's disappearance.

Personally, I have no interest in what your brother or this PI James turn up. Their ideas are just too far-fetched. I think it's likely these girls were killed by someone they met at the mall or knew casually.

I wish you peace.
JT

[Kristin83]

Personally, I have no interest in what your brother or this PI James turn up. Their ideas are just too far-fetched. I think it's likely these girls were killed by someone they met at the mall or knew casually.

I wish you peace.
JT

That seems to be the most logical explanation.

[deige]

Guys I Have been trying to post and answer your questions but for some reason the website keeps clearing them off after a certain point. I guess they are too long in content. I have tried 3 times now. I will try again later and writer shorter posts each time. Thank you for you warm wishes.
I have no idea what peace is and will only find it when Im with my maker or find my sister.

[deige]

By the way I visited Rustys website he has added a new song he wrote. Its called in the end. I listened to it last night and wished I hadn't. I cryed myself to sleep. There is no peace there is only raw pain. Not only have I lost my sister I have lost my brother as well. The monster or monsters who did this to our families need to suffer a long lingering painful death. Because this is what we deal with everyday. We can put on our faces for the world but our hearts are alway grieving. I have no anger against my brother. I love him unconditionally. I learned through counseling that to be able to survive with my sanity and take care of my MOM my husband, my children and grandchildren that I have to understand and forgive. And I do from the bottom of my heart. If you are reading this little brother I love you, always have, always will, please stop and help us heal. Our Mother an Pop need our help in their last years. Moms prays everyday for just one more family Cookout One more Family Christmas, Thankgiving etc.... You took that from her and for that you are so wrong..... and she hurts so bad.... open your eyes. It has taken me 3 years to convince her to stop being angy with you. Bottom line you are and Son and she needs to forgive. You need to put your personal feeling aside Rusty and give our Mother back a little happiness. You know Mom and Poppa,s day are few. Step up and be a man.

[Valiant]

I can't begin to imagine what you are going through. I had a car stolen and it was gone for a few days before it was found. I had a dog that climbed over the fence and she was missing for five days before she wandered home. Both those events nearly drove me crazy, not knowing what was going on. I can't imagine how much worse it is when it's a human being that's missing and you just don't know. And for years and years. It breaks my heart thinking of the pain these families and so many others go through. I pray for you all.

[deige]

well I just spent 45 minutes answering questions and sharing my feeling and again when I hit submit it closed the window. I wish I knew how to set up my own blog. It would be so much easier and help me talk about my feelings. If anyone knows a Fantastic author that would be interested in writing my story PLEASE let me know. People have begged me for years to write a book. There are so many twist and turns and a lot of story to tell. I wouldn't know where to begin.
TATOR TOT.
PI Jon Swaim was a lowlife scumbag who prayed on other people pain for the publicity and media attention he got. He never helped up, just took our money. It is my understanding from a good source that knew him was that he had very damaging information and Kept secret files on top elected officials, including Lawyers, Judges, DA's ect... He ask his family to destroy his files for their protection if anything ever happened to him. I have alway wondered if his suicide was staged. Later I will tell you how I was able to have access to that information.
Thank you for your prayers and warm wishes.
TEXAS SANDMAN I still don't understand why you want contact me or even my Mom Fran. She's in the phonebook and has had the same number for almost 40 years, in hopes that someday the phone will ring and it will be her baby girl on the other end.
Later on I will tell you about 2 other PI's that schemed their way into her lives and brought nothing but choas and confusion to our world.
Debra

[Kathee]

Guys I Have been trying to post and answer your questions but for some reason the website keeps clearing them off after a certain point. I guess they are too long in content. I have tried 3 times now. I will try again later and writer shorter posts each time. Thank you for you warm wishes.
I have no idea what peace is and will only find it when Im with my maker or find my sister.


Diege, happens to me all the time. If it happens again, don't use your back button or go forward. Just use your login and password in the box that appears in the middle of the screen.

It will remember what you were posting and post it once you log back in. It's frustrating.....I wish a moderator would fix it to allow us more time to post all of our thoughts before it knocks us out. Another option is to write what you want on word pad or in an email then copy and paste it.

Good luck!!

[gaia227]

HI Diege and welcome to WS! It is wonderful you are posting here.

I always right click on my posts and copy before I hit submit so in case it doesn't go through I can just paste it and try to resubmit. I can't even count how many times I have written some long post only to have it lost. It is really frustrating.

[snowme]

diege, Welcome! You will not be judged here, I'm fairly certain of that. First, my heart goes out to you & your family. I cannot fathom what it's been like. I'm sorry there has been such a tear between Rusty and others in the family. I suppose something like that can be understood to a point but when it fails to be productive for any reason, it's time to mend it. I hope, especially for your parents' sakes, it can and will be.

I'm glad you cleared up the mess about the polygraphs. Like others, I wish the missingtrio site had fuller, more accurate or more updated info on it. I know people get busy and all but the site would be a good spot for full & complete info.... a good record, if you will, that may be helpful. I think that info should be published there. I hope it will be soon.

I hope this doesn't get misunderstood - having you come read here & post is like a breath of fresh air for this thread! It felt very mired down for a long time... like it would spin it's wheels and never get anywhere. We all appreciate it very much that you've come here.

Something that continues to nag at me is William Ted Wilhoit. Named a suspect in the Carla Walker case. http://www.justiceforcarla.com/thesuspect.shtml The numerous crimes that took place in the area in that time period and his repeated troubles with the law give a timeline of sorts that could line up for these girls disappearance. I read the (very long) synopsis at this page: http://www.justiceforcarla.com/thecase.shtml and noted that the retired detective mentions comparing Wilhoits handwriting to the note recieved and it was decided it was not a match. Tho that may not necessarily mean he had nothing to do with the girls disappearing it seemed to squash the idea that Wilhoit was connected. I'm wondering if indeed there was anything else that lines up with Wilhoit's timeline or crimes... if it was looked into further than just the handwriting of that note? (on the case page it indicates that two of the mom's (doesn't say which ones) and Rusty had contact with this retired detective John Terrell)

I guess with Wilhoit my thinking is this... if I had something more substantive than "no it's not his writing"... then I'd be able to mark him off a mental list and focus elsewhere (should "elsewhere" ever present itself somehow).

I look forward to reading anything you care to share. I hope you'll feel welcome here.

[Balthazar]

Diege,
Thank you so much for joining us here. I come from a family of writers, including some very famous, current best-selling writers and know many local writers. Perhaps I can help you.

I want to suggest that you type whatever you want to write to us on Websleuths in Microsoft Word first, then SAVE it (very important!) Then logon to Websleuths and copy and paste a few paragraphs at a time from your Word document into the message box. There is a limit on length - I cannot remember what the exact character limit is, but it is fairly short. I believe this copy/paste method from Word will save you a great deal of frustration and time.

I am not at all surprised that there were numerous PI's who took advantage of your family. It is a sad reality of tragedies such as the one your family experienced that unscrupulous ,dishonest and ruthless people will come out of the woodwork to take advantage of the victims. It really makes me angry that this happens, but please know, this is something that happens all the time. The family of Amy Lynn Bradley was similarily misled and taken for thousands of dollars. You are not alone. I am particularily saddened that your family has been torn apart by these charlatans.

I guess my initial question to you is what do you believe happened to your sister and her friends? And by this, I mean, today. I'm sure you have had many different theories, but I would like to know, in your heart of hearts, what you believe happened. And if you have no idea, please feel free to say that.

My second question is what are your memories of the last days before your sister disappeared. Do you remember her saying or doing anything unusual or out of character?

Thank you in advance for your consideration of these questions and thank you for joining us here. I want you to know that you have my sympathy for what you have been going through. I think you will find that the people here are sympathetic, intelligent and resourceful. Many of us have been crime victims ourselves or had friends or family members who were crime victims, so we are very sympathetic.

[deige]

Princess Rose,
Thank you so much for your support, it is wonderful to know there are people who can feel empathy and not believe everthing someone writes about some one. You say you come from a family of authors, that is awesome. I would like someone to write my story and it started early in our childhood. One tradgedy after another. Im not in it for the money, I just want my story told. I also want alll the profits to go to The Center for Missing and Exploited Children. If You can find someone that is truely wants to take the time and visit with us I think you could be on your way to a best seller. Here is a link to my email address only serious writers contact me
Thanks you from the bottom of my heart.

deige@sbcglobal.net

[Balthazar]

Deige, I sent you an email on May 30 with my contact information.

[Balthazar]

I came across some info pertaining to this case...

As reported in the Galveston Daily News, March 28 1981, Brazoria County sheriff's dep't investigators, along with Ft. Worth police, were searching a swamp near the town of Alvin for human remains. In 1976, an oil rig worker discovered two skulls and a jaw in the area. But, due to what was termed a "bad search", nothing else was recovered at the time. Due to the election of a new sheriff, several cases were being given a second look. LE believed that the skulls may have had something to do with the disappearance of Trlica, Wilson, and Mosely.

During the search on the 28th, human teeth, vertebrae, two pair of girls' pants and a high school drama book were recovered. The remains were sent to the coroner for dental comparison.

On April 5th, 1981, it was reported that the remains belonged to two girls who had disappeared in 1974 from nearby Dickinson, Texas. Georgia Geer, 14, and Brooks Bracewell, 12, had disappeared without a trace in September while on their way to their school bus stop.

The articles then went on to discuss the possibility that 40 other girls had gone missing and been murdered in the area of Brazoria County and the surrounding counties. By the mid-70's, the bodies of 21 girls who had been reported missing in 1971 and 1972 had been found. In 1974 and 1975, an additional 17 were reported missing. Police had developed a (unnamed) suspect in 1971, who was subsequently killed by police in 1972.

The "official" LE story was that there was nothing substantial to link the cases. Unofficially, detectives were reported to say that there had to be something to it...The girls ranged in age from 12 to 21, most being 14 or 15. Almost all shared the same general physical features; thin builds, long, straight light to medium brown hair parted in the middle.
Almost all were found in or very close to water.

Other articles, dated as late as 2002, compiled missing/recovered/unidentifed victim reports from the area. One report stated that since 1971, 21 girls and women had gone missing along the I-45 corridor through the area, and the LE had recovered the remains of 14. This number includes those found in the Calder Rd "killing field", as discussed in another thread here.

I wanted to bring this post forward. This shows that there was likely a serial killer in the area at the time of the Trio's disappearance. I45 runs from south of Dallas, south to Waco, Austin, San Antonio. The I45 killer could have come up I45 and then Mansfield Hwy. Mansfield Hwy intersects E. Seminary Dr. which is where Seminary South was.

It occurred to me that the reason that the letter was sent to Rachel's house is because, of the 3 girls, only Rachel would have a driver's license at the time. She was probably the ONLY one who had any ID on her at all that day. I think that the killer must have used her driver's license to look up her address in the phone book - everyone was listed in the phone book back then. With an unusual last name like Trlica, the list of names could not be that long so it would be easy to match up the address on the driver's license to the phone book. Phone books were readily available everywhere in those days. You could find one at most any payphone. The listing would have been under her husband's name. Perhaps the killer saw her husband listed as Thomas instead of Tommy. Texas Sandman, can you ask Rusty if this is correct - that this is how he was listed in the phone book? The fact that the car was parked on the UPPER deck of the Sears parking lot is also important. Of all the places to park at a mall, the upper decks are usually the least busy. This would be, IMO, the most private place for someone to attempt a kidnapping of 3 girls. Of course, it could be that the mall was just packed that day and this was the only place the girls could find to park. I also looked at a map regarding the PO cancellation on the note. Throckmorton is West of Ft. Worth and Weatherford is West, almost SouthWest of Ft. Worth and much closer to where Seminary South Mall was. It would be almost a straight shot from the Mall to Weatherford with many uninhabited areas and lakes in between. Throckmorton is not that far out of the way either.

[deige]

Oh my goodness Princess Rose you are absolutely right about the phone book and the fact that Rachel would probably be the one to have ID info. That is the first time I ever thought about that. Thank you for your insight. It helps to maybe make some sense of an otherwise senseless action.

[Kaiser Sousa]

Hello, I am new here, but very familar with this case. I grew up in Fort Worth in the same neighborhood as Tommy Trlica. Seminary South was our hangout for Saturday afternoons in the 60's.

I was doing a search on a Texas Divorce and Marriage record site a year or so ago. I knew one of Tommy's Wives during the early 70's, I was looking to see how long that marriage lasted when I noticed that the divorce or marriage with his wife after Rachel was in Throckmorton or she showed her residence as being in Throckmorton. If the postage stamp was done in Throckmorton thats weird cause you could live in Texas for 5o years like me and not hear the town of Throckmorton mentioned twice in the same decade, very small town in the middlle of no where. I cant find that site anymore to go back and look again.

Did someone ever come up with what day the letter showed up?

[Kaiser Sousa]

Does anyone know the answers to these question?

What time did the girls leave to go shopping that day? What was the address of the last house they left from?

Is it a fact tha there first stop was the Army-Navy store on the corner of Berry and Hemphill?

Did they leave Seminary South and return home for some reason and then return to Seminary South?

Were there reciepts with the purchases they made that day? was the time of purchase on the reciepts back then?

[deige]

Hi Kaiser and welcome to the community.
I will try to answer your questions to the best of my ability.
Rachel left from her house around 10 am. She invited me to join her but I couldn't get my lazy teenage ass out of bed. She did tell me you was going to the Army Navy Store to get some jeans out of layaway. Yes indeed there was and Army Navy store on the corner of Hemphill and Berry. This store was a popular place for young girls including myself to purchase low cut hiphugger jeans in a wide variety of bright colors. After leaving home she went to our mothers and ask her to go but she couldn't. Our father was struggling with malignant meloma and was have black outs and she had to be with him at all times. From there she went to the 3500 block of Gordon Ave. to pick up Renee. Julie lived across the street and was over there when Rachel arrived. Julie begged to go with them so she could buy a christmas present for her mother. I'm no sure of when they left Renees grandmothers but we do know they did indeed stop and get Rachels jeans out of layaway. I feel certain she carried them in to the mall to match tops to them. She did not have her stepson shawn. They were suppose to have him for Christmas Eve. Logic tells me they were kidnapped for human trafficking but heart doesnt want to hear it! My bond with my sister was strong. We used to sit crossed legged in her living room floor and talk and play canasta to the wee hours of the morning. In answer to your last question. NO there was no receipts in the car only a small gift wrapped for little shawn from Renee. I Hope this answers your questions.
God Bless
Deige

[deige]

Why won't you reveal your self to me. I can only think of a few people you could be, Darin or Gary Cordell After I found this web site you dropped off the map. please don't do that it isn't fair. Please talk to me.
Thanks Deige

[deige]

let the record show that the letter stated the car is parked in Sears Upper LOt not Deck. By parking there you coulc go in through the lawn and garden dept. Have a blessed day
Deige

[tatertot]

Princess Rose, as Debra said that was great thinking on the phone book. I would imagine it is the same for all area directories, but I've only seen full first names such as Thomas used in phone books, never nicknames like Tommy. Can anyone verify this was the case in 1974?

The question remains why someone felt the need to write the letter in the first place. To me it sounds like it was meant to give the abductor more time to leave the area, by assuring the families the girls had gone to Houston voluntarily and would return in a week so maybe they wouldn't be in a complete panic and search as hard as if the three had vanished without leaving a letter behind. But though the families searched hard anyway, the girls still remain missing so it doesn't sound like the letter really served any purpose.

I don't see the abductor writing this as he was still holding the girls, because it only mentions Rachel's name and as you pointed out that could have been found on her license. I think that if the abductor had the girls with him at the time the letter was written, he would have demanded their names and included those on the letter. It might have been written after he harmed them or sent them away with someone else.

The fact that the letter says "we had to get away" vs. "I had to get away" also suggests at least two of the girls, one of whom had to be Rachel, were still together at the time and the abductor knew that.

Debra, I assume none of the families saw the letter and recognized it as being written on stationery that their daughter kept in her desk at home?

[deige]

Tatortot,
All the families saw the letter. No one recognized the paper it was written on. Also of interest if memory serves me the letter was addressed in pen and it appeared the pen was running out of ink and was completed in pencil as was the letter.

[Kaiser Sousa]

I always thought it was the lot that set up high close to Seminary Street, It was really only used by employees and when the Mall was packed. If you parked there you would either enter Sears in the Men's clothes store or walk on down to enter the center by the shoe store. The lot you would park in where you would use the Sears Home and Garden dept set lower than the seminary street lot and was shielded from view by a wall on the South end, an incline on the east and the freeway was on the east too. This was a good parking place if you were in a hurry to get inside a store , lik if it was cold or raining. Is this the lot where they were on the east side of Sears?

[Kaiser Sousa]

So the little gift for shawn was the only present in the car? was shawn's Mother Shana or Shawna?

[Kaiser Sousa]

Diege, do you know where the gift for shawn was purchased , if it was already wrapped it had o come from the mall, which meant they returned to the car which is strange if the gift was small.

How about the chance they left the center and went to someones house and returned to SS (shopping center) I saw that somewhere and the only way that could be known is if someone saw them or they left some sign they were home.

[deige]

If I remember right the gift was from Renee to Shawn and she had when Rachel picked her up from her grandmothers. Thats how it was left in the car. I think someone said it was a plastic car or something. I'm not sure.

[deige]

Also now that I think about it you are right about the parking lot. Its been so many years and I try to avoid that area because its painful. I think Shawns mothers name was Shawna.

[deige]

I guess if someone wanted to they could probably go to the downtown library. They may have a copy of the phone books from back then. I knew they use to have them from all over the US because I used them for research. But that was 20 years ago

[Kaiser Sousa]

So by what I have read there is really no proof the girls returned to the car once they arrived at SS. If they were abducted by force, the parking lot on the east would be the most likely one where something like that could go undetected. What time was it when the families became alarmed?

[deige]

somewhere between 2-4 pm. Renees mother kept calling to see if they where home yet. Renee had a party she was going to. She started calling all the stores in the mall she could and having them paged. The FWPD would not come until the mall was closed. The mall was open until 11pm. Those were the Christmas Shopping hours. I'm fixing to take my Mom to dinner. I will ask her. I hate asking her because it causes so much hurt. We talk about her a lot but all we can do is speculate.

[Kaiser Sousa]

when did someone first go to the mall to look?

[deige]

I am not exactly sure but it seems like they found the car before dark but couldn't get the Police to come until the mall closed. The police really let us down. When they did come they wrote them up as a pink slip. Which back then I think meant runaways. How stupid can someone be to think 2 teenagers would run away two days before Christmas WITH a 9 yr old !!!!

[Balthazar]

Hello, I am new here, but very familar with this case. I grew up in Fort Worth in the same neighborhood as Tommy Trlica. Seminary South was our hangout for Saturday afternoons in the 60's.

I was doing a search on a Texas Divorce and Marriage record site a year or so ago. I knew one of Tommy's Wives during the early 70's, I was looking to see how long that marriage lasted when I noticed that the divorce or marriage with his wife after Rachel was in Throckmorton or she showed her residence as being in Throckmorton. If the postage stamp was done in Throckmorton thats weird cause you could live in Texas for 5o years like me and not hear the town of Throckmorton mentioned twice in the same decade, very small town in the middlle of no where. I cant find that site anymore to go back and look again.

Did someone ever come up with what day the letter showed up?

I found the site where you can download free Texas Marriage records:

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/marriagedivorce/mindex.shtm

Do you remember what year Tommy married the wife after Rachel? Or Diege, can you help with this information? Do you remember how long it was after Rachel's disappearance that Tommy go remarried? The county is Throckmorton, btw. I guess after you download the list, the records are then organized by county.

[Balthazar]

I've been giving the note some more thought. For reference, here is the text:

"I know I'm going to catch it, but we just had to get away. We're going to Houston. See you in about a week. The car is in Sear's upper lot. Love Rachel."

First of all, I agree, a career criminal would not write a note like this. It seems to me it was written without preplanning - the pen ran out of ink, they had to switch to pencil. The sheet of paper was wider than the envelope. These things make me think this was written by someone who had never worked in an office or gone to college. The switching from pen to pencil leads me to theorize it may have been written by a teen scrambling around in their car or bookbag for something to write with. I theorize teen here, because back then, we all had to carry a pen and a pencil to school - that was required in high schools in Ft. Worth at the time. The possibility remains that this is an uneducated adult.

In the case of this sort of abduction and a career criminal, there would either be no note or the note would be designed to taunt and torment the families in some way and/or ask for ransom.

There is the obvious part of the note, which is to throw the police and families off the trail and delay the search for the girls. But since the note was sent from Throckmorton or Weatherford, which is in the exact wrong direction if you are traveling from the Mall to Houston, it reveals that the person writing the note either wasn't smart enough not to think of that or was trying to signal she was in trouble (if Rachel or one of the other girls wrote it.)

In addition, there is some subtext to the note.

1. Whoever wrote the note may have felt guilty about leaving the car behind, but I believe it is actually intended to get the car back to whoever owns it or has rights to it as soon as possible. No career criminal would care about that, but a teen might and so would someone who owned the car. So we have a note that shows the person wanted to slow down the investigation into the disappearance and simultaneously wanted to get the car back to the owner, and I suppose that was either Rachel or Tommy, in Rachel's absence.

It seems to me that the writer was naive about the way the police would investigate this case. It seems like the writer or person who dictated the note (we don't know which it was) thought the note would slow the investigation, but the car seems to be the prioirity.

2. Possible emotional investment in the Christmas present for Shawn and getting it to him in time for Christmas. For most teens, Christmas presents are a big deal. I feel like whoever wrote this note may have wanted to be sure that Shawn got that present by Christmas. The present may have been discussed with the writer or it may have been Rachel writing the note.

Diege: Some questions, if I may?

1. If someone had to be with your dad at all times, why did Rachel ask your mom to go shopping that day? Was there someone else who would normally be there to help so you mom might have been able to go?

2. What kind of paper was the note written on? What color paper? What color ink?

3. Before you saw this note, had you ever heard anyone in your family use the expression "I know I'm going to catch it" ? If so, who? If not, had you ever heard anyone else use that expression or a variation of that expression such as "You're going to catch it!" For example Renee or Tommy or Renee's mom or dad or any of Rachel and Renee's high school friends?

4. Did Rachel have any classmates or friends with the first or last name, Houston? If you aren't sure, can you get her yearbook and look for someone with that name or ask you mom? Note: If you happen to find someone, you are not allowed to post the full name here, just initials. So, just tell us if you know of someone by that name or found someone with that name.

5. Was there anything about the word Houston that you associate with your sister? For example, did she and Tommy go there on their honeymoon? Did she ever travel to Houston with anyone? I am wondering if there is some reason that Houston was the city used.

6. Did Rachel normally sign her cards, letters or notes "Love Rachel" with no comma? Girls are usually fastidious about the punctuation at the end of a note. I'm wondering if this was normal for Rachel. I'm sure you or you mom must have cards, letters or notes from her that you could look at for reference.

7. Who was the owner of Rachel's car? If it was Rachel, who bought it for her?

8. What happened when the letter arrived? After Tommy received it did he:

a. open it and then give it untouched by anyone else to police
b. not open and give it to police
c. open it and pass it around to you and your parents?
d. other, please describe

9. Did police find anyone's fingerprints on the letter?

10. Have police been able to get DNA off the envelope or stamp? If so, do you know whose it is?

11. From the article, it appears that Tommy received the letter when he was by himself. Is this true?

12. What time of day did he find the letter and what time of day was your normal postal delivery. The articles claim early morning but others have noted they remember mail delivery in that neighborhood being much later than that.


Thank you, in advance for your consideration of these questions.

[Balthazar]

Princess Rose, as Debra said that was great thinking on the phone book. I would imagine it is the same for all area directories, but I've only seen full first names such as Thomas used in phone books, never nicknames like Tommy. Can anyone verify this was the case in 1974?

The question remains why someone felt the need to write the letter in the first place. To me it sounds like it was meant to give the abductor more time to leave the area, by assuring the families the girls had gone to Houston voluntarily and would return in a week so maybe they wouldn't be in a complete panic and search as hard as if the three had vanished without leaving a letter behind. But though the families searched hard anyway, the girls still remain missing so it doesn't sound like the letter really served any purpose.

I don't see the abductor writing this as he was still holding the girls, because it only mentions Rachel's name and as you pointed out that could have been found on her license. I think that if the abductor had the girls with him at the time the letter was written, he would have demanded their names and included those on the letter. It might have been written after he harmed them or sent them away with someone else.

The fact that the letter says "we had to get away" vs. "I had to get away" also suggests at least two of the girls, one of whom had to be Rachel, were still together at the time and the abductor knew that.

Debra, I assume none of the families saw the letter and recognized it as being written on stationery that their daughter kept in her desk at home?

Thank you for your kind words. I remember the Ft. Worth phone book well and that the names were almost always the husband's name and it was always the formal name which could make it somewhat difficult to figure out who was who if you only knew your friend's dad's first name as "Bubba" Jones or only his middle name, which is another Texas tradition, but not his real first name or what street they lived on. I remember calling multiple numbers and asking for my friends until I found the right one. LOL! Before telephone deregulation, the phone company used the name you had on your telephone bill in the directory unless you told them otherwise or had an unlisted number. If you were a single woman, you would use your initials in order to disguise that.

I think your comments on the letter are very valid ones. You can see my further comments on the letter above.

[Balthazar]

I am not exactly sure but it seems like they found the car before dark but couldn't get the Police to come until the mall closed. The police really let us down. When they did come they wrote them up as a pink slip. Which back then I think meant runaways. How stupid can someone be to think 2 teenagers would run away two days before Christmas WITH a 9 yr old !!!!

IMO the fact that Rachel asked both you AND your mom to go indicates that she did not plan to run away with Renee.

This is how I thought it through:

If Rachel asked you mom to go as cover for running away knowing full well your mom couldn't go then it would be risked by asking you to go - you would be a wild card in the mix since teen girls generally love shopping and Rachel couldn't be 100% certain you would say no even though you were still in bed. I don't think Rachel would have taken that risk if she planned to run.

[Balthazar]

Diege, I would also like to ask you these questions to clear up past questions about Tommy, if I may:

1. Where was Tommy on the day in question?

2. Based on what he told you, why was he divorced from his first wife when his son was younger than 2?

3. What sort of job did he have at the time? Did he spend a lot of time driving all over the place or was it field work such as surveying or was it an office job?

4. Was there any sort of domestic abuse between your sister and Tommy that you witnessed or your sister told you about?

[Balthazar]

I also found this interesting website:

http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm345400.html

[justthinkin]

Great questions, Princess Rose!

As for Willhoit, IIRC I read his family had a farm outside of Ft. Worth. Anyone have a clue where that farm was located? Although I'm not sure how likely a suspect he is, he's still on the list of possible suspects, and he would fit right in as an inexperienced killer who may have directed Rachel to write the note.

There was another budding serial killer in Ft. Worth at the time, a guy with dark skin coloring. His family moved up north, and I believe he was responsible for murders there wherever it was. I forget. Then he came back to Ft. Worth & committed more murders. If he's not on death row, then he's likely been executed.

Deige, what happened to the car Rachel was driving? Was it one your parents had lent her & they got back or did the car go to Tommy?

I'm thinking if the car belonged to your parents then perhaps Rachel did write the note trying to disguise her handwriting as the only means she had of saying she was in trouble & needed help, and maybe she realized she was going to die & wanted your mom and dad to know where the car was.
Sad thought.

[Balthazar]

justthinkkin: Are you talking about the ranch at Thorp Springs, which is where Detective John Terrell thought Wilhoit held Carla Walker captive for several days? Thorp Springs is slightly Southwest of Ft. Worth - it's close to Grandbury, TX and 95 miles from Throckmorton, TX. Compared to Seminary South, it's 1 hour 23 minutes to Thorp Springs, all highway, once you are out of the mall parking lot.

But Detective Terrell had this to say about the Trio case on his website:

"I continued to contact people who had associated with Wilhoit. One or two stories came out in the newspaper. One day, I was contacted by the brother of one of the missing girls from the Sears parking lot. He came to visit me and told me that he had quit his job to spend all his time in trying to find his sister and the other girls. The mothers of two of the girls had come to see me after I retired. I just could not offer them any hope. I had compared the hand writing on the letter the oldest girl's husband had received with Wilhoit's handwriting. I also compared it with Wilhoit's wife, and Richard Ellis and Mary Sue Ellis. None seem to match. "

Carla was kidnapped from the bowling alley parking lot on the Benbrook Traffic Circle in Benbrook, TX - a close-in suburb city of Ft.Worth. Back in the 1970's, this area may have had a Ft. Worth address as many parts of Benbrook did. In the last few years this was changed and these addresses are now Benbrook rather than Ft. Worth. Thorp Springs is 27.7 miles from this location. It is very clear that Wilhoit was all over Ft. Worth. Terrell lists possible attacks by him near TCU, TCJC, and Benbrook Traffic Circle. Terrell's site is well worth reading.

http://www.justiceforcarla.com/thecase.shtml

[justthinkin]

Yes, PrincessRose, that's it, Thorp Springs.

Was the murder of Becky Martin ever solved? Her murder predated Carla's, and she too was found in a culvert. I was never able to find any info about Becky Martin other than what Terrell has on his Carla Walker website.

[ZubenElSchemali]

Princess Rose and I have been discussing this case in private. I told her I would post this image that looks quite a bit like Rachael. See Attachment. What do you think?

[JulieR]

I have just been reading along, not posting but that really looks a lot like Rachael!

[Balthazar]

Jane Doe Profile, Doe Network 20UFNJ
Estimated age: 15-30 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'0 - 5'4"; 100 - 120 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Hair and eye color are both undetermined.
Dentals: Available. Decedent had significant tooth decay. Gap in the upper central incisors.
Clothing: She was wearing a long-sleeved gray and red nylon laced top; a white bra; brown leather platform sandals, size 6 1/2 with a 2 1/2 inch-high heel; and knee-high white acrylic socks. Items found near her body included a portion of one pink rubber thong-style sandal; and a leather-like shoe or small boot with a picture of a football scene on the side, stitched in red and white.
DNA: Available in Codis

Rachel's stat's at time of disappearance:
Age: 17
Height and Weight: 5'6", 108 pounds
Characteristics: Cacausian female, blonde to brown hair, green/blue eyes, her upper front tooth is chipped, she has a small scar on her chin.

[Kaiser Sousa]

When was this body found?

[Balthazar]

When was this body found?

She was found Dec. 10, 1988 in Atlantic Highlands, Monmouth County, NJ. She was completely skeletonized and estimated to have been buried in that location for over 10 years. "This victim was discovered off lower Bayside Drive in Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey as a parcel of land was cleared along Sandy Hook Bay."

I can't claim credit for this potential match - another Websleuth's member, Laura Bean, picked up on it on page 6 or so of this thread. I'm only bringing it forward because I don't think the police ever got this information to at least do a DNA comparison. What Rachel would be doing in New Jersey, I don't know, but we all know that often the missing are found many states away from where they disappeared, so anything is possible.

Link to Doe Network: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/20ufnj.html

[Kaiser Sousa]

Is there a photocopy of the letter and the envelope somewhere. I wonder if the police have evidence they are withholding for some reason

[justthinkin]

AquarianE, I think the two look enough alike to submit this. The bone structure is there. The 3D sculpture appears to have a stronger straight line nose, but neither of the drawings reflect that. Go for it!

[tatertot]

I think it's worth a submission. It would be an easy rule out if the UID does not have a chipped tooth.

Interesting about the handwriting on the letter, and thanks for answering the question about the stationery it was written on, Debra. If the gas station employee was being truthful about his boss's activity around the time of the disappearances, I think the owner wrote it himself and I hope his writing (perhaps some bills of sale or other documents related to the business still exist) will be compared against the note. I still think it's more than a coincidence that he told his employee he was taking the girls to catch a bus to Houston and the note claimed they had gone there.

[deige]

Hi Princess Rose, I studied the NJ Jane Doe and have concluded that and feel very strongly it is not my sister. The chip in Rachels front teeth was like a v shape. I know because we were jumping on our beds, she was drinking a bottle of Coke and I accidently fell into her causing the bottle to hit her in the mouth. We were about 7 and 9 yrs old. Second Rachel wore a size 7 1/2 to size 8 shoe. Depending on who the shoes were made by. We shared shoes growing up The scar on her chin was cause by falling from a slide on a swing set when we where around 3 and 5. Sorry I haven't answered your questions, but sometimes I have to shut my computer down. All the questions get overwelming. Maybe if you didn't ask so many at one time. thank you for getting in touch with Texas Sandman. He did contact me.

[Balthazar]

Hi Princess Rose, I studied the NJ Jane Doe and have concluded that and feel very strongly it is not my sister. The chip in Rachels front teeth was like a v shape. I know because we were jumping on our beds, she was drinking a bottle of Coke and I accidently fell into her causing the bottle to hit her in the mouth. We were about 7 and 9 yrs old. Second Rachel wore a size 7 1/2 to size 8 shoe. Depending on who the shoes were made by. We shared shoes growing up The scar on her chin was cause by falling from a slide on a swing set when we where around 3 and 5. Sorry I haven't answered your questions, but sometimes I have to shut my computer down. All the questions get overwelming. Maybe if you didn't ask so many at one time. thank you for getting in touch with Texas Sandman. He did contact me.

Debra, thank you for looking at the NJ Jane Doe. I'm sorry if all the questions feel overwhelming. I hope you know that it is my sincere hope to somehow help you, in fact everyone here wants that. I honestly am not surprised about the mess the FWPD made of your sister's case - look at the work they did on the Caren Koslow case - if the murder weapon hadn't been handed to them, they would have arrested and tried one of the victims for murder. What I would suggest is starting with the first question and answer it one day and a few days later, answer the next question. That should make it a bit easier.

So, here's one question: What time of day did Tommy get the letter that is supposedly from Rachel from the mailbox? Can you give us an hour such as around 10:30 am?

[deige]

It was sometime in the morning... I remember sitting in their living room in their recliner staring at the wall, it had been a long long night.. It all seemed surreal and this could not be happening. Way out of character for my sister. I could not see the hallway that went to to the front door. I remember hearing Tommy open the door and a few seconds later I looked up and he was standing there with the note. His look was total disbelief. He then walked over and sat on the arm of the recliner and handed me the note. It just didn't make any sense. The first thing I did was call my parents and we took it to their house. Everything after that is a blur. We were bombarded with all the family and police and media.
The police still have the letter and the envelope in their possesion. DNA testing at that time was not an option. Oh how I wished it were.
Princess Rose, I talked to my mom about the possibility of writing a book. I could see in her eyes how much pain it inflicted. I could not bear it. My Mom and I are really close. She said " I know in my heart our girls were tortured and used for prostitution, so where ever they are let them rest in peace." This is a feeling she had not shared before. I think to much CSI, Criminal minds etc... I respect her wishes and at this time will not pursue a book. She has suffered so much over the last 34 years. I am really grateful in a way she does not know how to use a computer. She is a great mother, grandmother a and Gigi. (greatgrandmother)
I want the time she has left with us to be as happy and peaceful as possible. I will fight for this. Thanks for you understanding

[Balthazar]

Diege, I believe you are doing the right thing in not writing a book and I support your decision 100%. Your mother's wishes are extremely important in this decision.

Thank you for answering the question about the letter. I can understand how you might not have been aware of the time, as in shock as you must have been over the preceeding days' events.

DNA is still possible with the letter and envelope that the police have. I hope that you and your family will urge them to take samples from the envelope. If you don't have a sample of Rachel's DNA, it's really not an issue because you or your mother can give a sample of mitochodrial DNA which wll be an exact match of Rachel's mitochondrial DNA. If the DNA on the envelope is not too degraded, police may be able to use your mitochondrial DNA to determine if Rachel licked the envelope or stamp - or if it was a male or other unrelated female.

Here's my next question, do you know of any articles that we could look at that would give us a clearer picture of the events surrounding your sister's disappearance? What we have seen on the internet has been extremely limited.

[Balthazar]

Yes, PrincessRose, that's it, Thorp Springs.

Was the murder of Becky Martin ever solved? Her murder predated Carla's, and she too was found in a culvert. I was never able to find any info about Becky Martin other than what Terrell has on his Carla Walker website.

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about the Becky Martin case.

[Kaiser Sousa]

I believe that there is no way a letter could be delivered in one day by a US postman in the middle of the Christmas season back in 1974. Whatever happened to the girls had to have happened more than likely after 1 0r 2:00PM so at the earliest the letter is mailed at 2 or 3 in Weatherford, 3:30 or 4:30 in Throckmorton and I'm being very liberal with those times. If the letter did come by US mail then it had to be mailed before the day of the dissapearance, THAT MEANS PREMEDITATION !. If the letter was hand delivered by a person other than a US mailman that opens up a lot of other possibilities as to their fate that i havent thought about.

This is if the letter arrived the day after the dissapearance, which I assume is correct.

Diege answer one for me when you can, When do you think Rachel decided she was going to Seminary South that day? was it the day of? the day before? two days before?

[Balthazar]

Kaiser Sousa - I found the Texas Marriage/Divorce database for you and it's on page 9 of this thread - post 217. It's free to use. Do you think you could find Tommy's next marriage date again please? Also, can you please go to your profile under Edit Options and set it up so we can send you a PM on this board? This will protect your identity, but allow you to discuss things without them being displayed in a thread on the board. Thanks!

[Kaiser Sousa]

I dont see any edit options

[Kaiser Sousa]

Okay I found the marriage and divorce records but I dont think I ought to post them here, am I right?

[Balthazar]

I dont see any edit options

Oh, sorry, I should have explained better. Go up to the top of this page and click on User CP - that stands for User Control Panel. From there you willl find the edit options.

[Balthazar]

Okay I found the marriage and divorce records but I dont think I ought to post them here, am I right?


You can put the initials of the two parties (Tommy is TT, for example) and the dates of marriage and divorce here and the location(s) this was all filed in.

[Kaiser Sousa]

Tt (19) married sf(16) on 10/23/1971 in tarrant county

tt (21) divorced sf (18) on 4/26/1974 in tarrant county

tt (21) married ra (16) on 6/8/1974 in tarrant county

ra disappears 12/74

tt (24) married jb (17) on 12/15/1976 in parker county (weatherford is in parker county)

tt (25) divorces jb (19) 6/13/1978 in throckmorton county

tt (26) marries rf (23) 8/31/1978 in parker county

[Kaiser Sousa]

i DONT KNOW IF I TURNED ON ANYTHING LIKE A PM?

[snowme]

Has been a couple weeks since I last logged on so I'm catching up with the posts. May I just say how great it is to see this thread so active and all the great thinking that is happening!

Randomly tossing out thoughts that came while reading:

Does anyone know of any other cases in/around the area back then that also had a note delivered to family/roommates/friends to excuse or explain the sudden and immediate absence of someone missing? (this thinking came from Princess Rose bringing forward an older post regarding statistics of missing/found girls in the area of the time)

I occasionally get confused about the mall. My understanding is that it was a strip mall, is that incorrect? Or was it a mall where some stores had parking entrances but most were entered once inside the mall? Also, I know it got confused regarding the "upper lot" which then got mentioned as an "upper deck".. was the parking lot all ground level parking or was it different levels. (sorry... you may virtually smack me upside the head to knock out the confusion! :-)

tatertot's wording got me thinking (about the letter and whether or not it served a purpose)... We tend to tackle this as if Rachel was the "main" target and Renee and Julie just happened to be there. I guess the letter is the reason we tend to do this. Because it was addressed to her home, her husband. With Julie, it's easy to see why we would think that way since she was the one who (seemingly excitedly) asked if she could go along and not that the older girls had intended her to go. But what if the letter's purpose was to throw attention onto Rachel and away from the idea that one of the other girls was the reason for the incident? What if Renee had a crazy admirer or (and I am not recalling about Julie's parents, only that her mother was working and she was being looked after by grandma.. so clue me in, if you can) what if Julie's father was out of their home/marriage/family and had been watching for a time to claim her and knowing mom was at work, Julie's at grandma's ... but oops now he has to deal with two others that are messing up his plans... and he has to pull it off differently then just snatching from grandma's house. (honestly, I don't recall if Julie's dad is spoken of in articles so I'm just throwing out a possible scenario, no offense is meant if her dad was in the home (or not) and was a great dad!) My point is to just broaden my own thinking a bit because I decidely lean toward Rachel being the key victim for some reasoning and I'm not entirely sure I should. It leaves alot of "the picture" out, obviously and if that's been LE's take and tack too... that's a scary thought.

(Kaiser Sousa: Welcome to websleuths... glad you found us here!)

Debra, once again, thank you so much for bearing with us and participating here.

[snowme]

i DONT KNOW IF I TURNED ON ANYTHING LIKE A PM?

Hi, I'm here at the moment so I'm going to see if I can walk you thru it. From clicking on your name (or right clicking) I can see that it's not turned on yet. When it is, it will be an option via your name.

In the control panel under "settings & options" is "edit options".... under the second heading of Messaging & Notification the third area is "private messaging".... place a check in the "enable private messaging" box go to the very bottom of that page and click "save changes".

Hope this helps!

[Kaiser Sousa]

under the second heading of Messaging & Notification the third area is "private messaging"....



That area under Messaging and notification is not there

[Kaiser Sousa]

Its kinda hard to describe the mall, wish i could draw you a picture, Imagine a mall with no roof , most of the stores were one story, the larger stores were 2 to 3 stories. the mall was built where there use to be a small lake so it is at a lower level than the area to the south of it where Seminary drive went by it, I-35 was on its eastern border and a railroad track on the west side and a hispanic older neighborhood to the North. Like I said I spent many a saturday as a teenager there and even worked there for awhile. The Mall is L shaped with an open area surrounded by stores. Sears had 3 levels , On the southern side by Seminary Drive was by sea level the highest parking lot, you would enter the store on the 2nd level in the mens Dept. or you would walk along side the store south to enter the inside open area of the mall. East of Sears was a retaining wall that runs East-West for about 50 yards, On the other side of the wall was a parking lot that was quite lower than the Seminary drive parking lot. If you parked there you would enter Sears a level lower than you would if you walked in the mens Dept., or the first level(basement). You would walk into the Garden dept, sporting goods, lawn mowers etc. , That parking lot was not a popular parking spot it was dark , not much foot traffic, deserted, and sealed from view on the South by the retaining wall an on the East by a hill that led up to the access road of I-35, and on the north side more Parking. But it was used by customers to pickup large item purchases from sears.

I still dont know where they were parked, By upper lot I always assumed the seminary Drive Lot by the Mens dept entrance, because it sat higher than the garden dept lot.

sorry for the run-on rambling reply