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VespaElf
09-18-2004, 11:56 AM
I remember reading a story about ,I belive an Ohio Senator's(?) daughter who was murdered in their house and the case has never been solved.
This happened in the 1960's.(big house,no forced entry,family heard nothing)

Sorry I don't have more info but this is an obscure case and I read about briefly!


Anyone have any info???


Thanks!

joellegirl
09-19-2004, 01:09 AM
Hi, I believe you are talking about Valerie Percy, 21 year old daughter of former Illinois senator Charles Percy. It happened Sept 18,1966 in the affluent Chicago suburb of Kenilworth. The family found her dead in her bedroom that morning, having suffered repeated blows to her head and stabbed several times. I don't have any links handy at the moment but it is still an unsolved murder.

VespaElf
09-19-2004, 01:18 PM
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!


I couldnt remember the name and I got the state wrong but at least I can now go search!!!

Ivy
09-19-2004, 01:39 PM
Here's (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/story/217714p-187324c.html) a link to an article about the case.

2sisters
09-19-2004, 05:53 PM
I wonder if they have considered a political rival. Maybe an opponent or anyone who just didn't want him elected, some kind or radical, thought if the daughter was killed then he would drop out of the race. Valerie might have been picked at random, maybe they didn't care who as long as they got one of them. Just a thought, Im' sure that was looked into.

Pharlap
09-20-2004, 03:11 AM
Hi, I believe you are talking about Valerie Percy, 21 year old daughter of former Illinois senator Charles Percy. It happened Sept 18,1966 in the affluent Chicago suburb of Kenilworth. The family found her dead in her bedroom that morning, having suffered repeated blows to her head and stabbed several times. I don't have any links handy at the moment but it is still an unsolved murder.
Oh my, I remember that all to well....
:angel:

blueclouds
09-21-2004, 12:59 AM
Here's some info. Some is not on web anymore but I have it in print.

Here's a forum on the WHOLE CASE:
http://p216.ezboard.com/fcrimeandjustice13552frm92

http://weeklywire.com/ww/11-02-98/chicago_cover.html


HERE'S A BRIEF ARTICLE NO LONGER AVAILABLE. AUTHORSHIP UNKNOWN

An intruder entered the home of Senator Charles Percy (Rep.-IL) in Kenilworth, Illinois, on September 18, 1966, and brutally murdered his 21-year-old daughter, Valerie Percy. Senator Percy, a Christian Scientist, was the former President of Bell and Howell. Valerie Percy died of a fractured skull and 14 stab wounds: "An autopsy today showed that two stab wounds in the abdomen had penetrated the liver, one in the left breast had penetrated the heart, one in the right breast had reached a lung, and one through the throat had been stopped by the spinal column. Coroner Andrew J. Toman said there were also several cuts on the face, apparently inflicted with a double-edged knife, and several abrasions, like tooth marks, on two fingers of her right hand. But he said that death was caused by heavy blows to the left side of Miss Percy's head. He said the blows had probably been inflicted before the knifing since the victim did not scream. He said they had shattered her skull, leaving triangular depressions." [NYT 9.20.66 p43] Cash plainly visible on the dresser was left undisturbed. This was the first murder in Kenilworth in 75 years. Senator Percy's wife heard moaning from Valerie Percy's bedroom and discovered her murderer standing over her with a knife. The murderer had found his way onto the back patio of the Percy's home and cut through the locked screen door and pane of glass to gain entrance. The police conducted an extensive investigation and theorized the murderer was familiar with the layout of the Percy estate because the family dog alerted no one to the intrusion. The crime remained unsolved. When Charles Percy commenced his Senate campaign against Senator Paul Douglas (Dem.-IL), the police advised him to hire a bodyguard because he may have been the intended victim of the killer. Senator Paul Douglas, a former Marine, campaigned as a hawk, and suggested that small nuclear weapons should be used in Vietnam. Charles Percy wanted an Asian peace conference.

Former Vice President RICHARD NIXON was scheduled to campaign for Senator Percy around this time. He canceled his plans to do so and attended Valerie Percy's funeral. Senator Charles Percy was on NIXON'S Enemies List in the early 1970's. In 1971 Senator Charles Percy was also the victim of a bugging device; it was positioned on the underside of his car. On June 21, 1972, the FBI reported on a telephone number connected with the Watergate break-in this manner: "Telephone number three one two dash W T E A U E O T is believed to be typing error created by misplacing of hands on bottom line of keyboard. Instead of third, above letter combination would result from an intention to strike number two five three dash seven three nine five." (Striking of letter "A" was unexplained.) This telephone number lists to Thomas J. Houser. Chicago indices reflect Thomas J. Houser was formerly state campaign manager for U.S. Senator Charles H. Percy, in 1966...Was counter-intelligence agent U.S. Army...Thomas J. Houser will be contacted regarding his knowledge of McCORD and other Subjects..." [WFO 139-166 6.2172 rec. 6.27.72 serial illegible 139-4081-76]

2sisters
10-24-2004, 02:14 AM
http://crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/valerie_percy/index.html
I saw this on crime library features thought some might be interested.

JBean
11-16-2004, 11:49 PM
I remember reading a story about ,I belive an Ohio Senator's(?) daughter who was murdered in their house and the case has never been solved.
This happened in the 1960's.(big house,no forced entry,family heard nothing)

Sorry I don't have more info but this is an obscure case and I read about briefly!


Anyone have any info???


Thanks!
This happened nearby the house where I grew up. the night before the murder, someone broke into our home while we slept. My father inadvertently scared him off, but after realizing what was happening he called LE. Long story short, based on the evidence left behind, the police determined the person that broke into our house the night before the Percy murder, was probably the same person..that murdered Valerie Percy

Fran Bancroft
11-17-2004, 12:23 AM
:creepy Music: doo doo doo doo
This happened nearby the house where I grew up. the night before the murder, someone broke into our home while we slept. My father inadvertently scared him off, but after realizing what was happening he called LE. Long story short, based on the evidence left behind, the police determined the person that broke into our house the night before the Percy murder, was probably the same person..

JBean
11-17-2004, 12:36 AM
:creepy Music: doo doo doo doono *****

lakante
11-17-2004, 08:05 PM
I was 13 when this happened, and have been sort of haunted by the fact that this crime was never solved. I participate in another board and we are trying to stir up interest in this case. There is now a chapter in CTV's crime library. I have posted the link below if anyone is interested. There is no reason that this was never solved! :cool:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/valerie_percy/index.html

JBean
11-17-2004, 10:11 PM
I was 13 when this happened, and have been sort of haunted by the fact that this crime was never solved. I participate in another board and we are trying to stir up interest in this case. There is now a chapter in CTV's crime library. I have posted the link below if anyone is interested. There is no reason that this was never solved! :cool:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/valerie_percy/index.html
Hi lakante..I'm in Baraboo and mom says hi!

Sprocket
11-17-2004, 11:27 PM
Does anyone know, what kind of evidence they have? Could they possibly now use advanced methods, to test some of the evidence for trace, and compare that to the national database?

Due to the break in at JBeans house the night before :eek: I'd say it was unlikey that the perp knew the victim. Possibly she woke up and interupted a burgulary in process, and the individual killed her.

JBean
11-18-2004, 12:42 AM
Does anyone know, what kind of evidence they have? Could they possibly now use advanced methods, to test some of the evidence for trace, and compare that to the national database?

Due to the break in at JBeans house the night before :eek: I'd say it was unlikey that the perp knew the victim. Possibly she woke up and interupted a burgulary in process, and the individual killed her.lakante..do you know? She has really followed this case. The only thing I remember from our house was that the blue tool markings on the screen he slit to gain entry to our house matched the markings on the slit screen into the Percy home. There were footprints cast in our flower beds, and a broken rain gutter where he hung before dropping form the 2nd floor.but there probably was plenty of evidence at the Percy home.
I think I read somewhere that this had been the first murder in Kenilworth in 75 years..so maybe the investigators didn;t know what to do!

lakante
11-18-2004, 11:13 AM
lakante..do you know? She has really followed this case. The only thing I remember from our house was that the blue tool markings on the screen he slit to gain entry to our house matched the markings on the slit screen into the Percy home. There were footprints cast in our flower beds, and a broken rain gutter where he hung before dropping form the 2nd floor.but there probably was plenty of evidence at the Percy home.
I think I read somewhere that this had been the first murder in Kenilworth in 75 years..so maybe the investigators didn;t know what to do!
Read the chapter in Crime Library. There is no reason why they can't solve this case, except maybe political. There are 2 prime suspects, who were professional cat burglars at the time, associated with organized crime. Both are dead now, and the people who "ratted" on them are all shady characters. However, they do have physical evidence at the Chicago Crime Lab, and with today's forensics, they should be able to at least rule people out. Nobody in LE will talk to us about it. They say it's still an open investigation. :rolleyes:

Dogfather
11-20-2004, 02:22 AM
WOW....a very interesting case. It should be able to be solved, if the evidence was stored properly. The sketch of the suspect looks like someone, to me.......anyone else see anything interesting about the sketch??


Rob

Sprocket
11-20-2004, 09:41 AM
Read the chapter in Crime Library. There is no reason why they can't solve this case, except maybe political. There are 2 prime suspects, who were professional cat burglars at the time, associated with organized crime. Both are dead now, and the people who "ratted" on them are all shady characters. However, they do have physical evidence at the Chicago Crime Lab, and with today's forensics, they should be able to at least rule people out. Nobody in LE will talk to us about it. They say it's still an open investigation. :rolleyes:
Doesn't some woman, Dale Hinnman (? name, spelling) have a show on cold cases? I would think this would be a good one to submit to them to investigate, and do a show on. However, if it does lead to the perp beng dead, they may not be interested.

lakante
11-20-2004, 02:54 PM
Doesn't some woman, Dale Hinnman (? name, spelling) have a show on cold cases? I would think this would be a good one to submit to them to investigate, and do a show on. However, if it does lead to the perp beng dead, they may not be interested.
We have contacted everyone. The only person to respond was David Krajicek who wrote the article for CTV. I supplied him with many of the articles listed in his bibliography and he follows our discussion on ezboard. Bill Kurtis is also from the Northshore and was a newscaster at the time. We have written him many times. He is well aware of the case.


Join us Sprocket!

http://p216.ezboard.com/fcrimeandjustice13552frm92

nanandjim
11-20-2004, 02:58 PM
This happened nearby the house where I grew up. the night before the murder, someone broke into our home while we slept. My father inadvertently scared him off, but after realizing what was happening he called LE. Long story short, based on the evidence left behind, the police determined the person that broke into our house the night before the Percy murder, was probably the same person..that murdered Valerie Percy
OMG! How terrifying. I do believe in fate. It is amazing how things turned out. Thank God your father did something to scare off the intruder. I guess that it could have been one of your family members murdered that evening.

Kathy C
12-16-2004, 07:32 PM
I remember the murder. I was 10 years old. The reason I remembered it is because one of the networks was going to show Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho for the first time on TV. The network spokesperson said out of respect to Senator Percy and his daughter Valerie, the station will not be airing Psycho.

Then I remember older people saying, people die everyday and because he's a Senator we can't see Psycho?

And then there's the memory of people saying about the Kennedy Assassination years afterward: A lot of people die violently. Is he the only one we have to feel sorry for?

Pharlap
12-17-2004, 07:10 AM
Hi, I believe you are talking about Valerie Percy, 21 year old daughter of former Illinois senator Charles Percy. It happened Sept 18,1966 in the affluent Chicago suburb of Kenilworth. The family found her dead in her bedroom that morning, having suffered repeated blows to her head and stabbed several times. I don't have any links handy at the moment but it is still an unsolved murder.

I sure remember that. Valerie was one of twins, the other daughter wasn't
harmed....

Jovin
10-13-2005, 01:44 AM
I sure remember that. Valerie was one of twins, the other daughter wasn't
harmed....
Was the other daughter sleeping in the same room? Most likely not.

joellegirl
10-13-2005, 10:08 AM
Was the other daughter sleeping in the same room? Most likely not.

No, they had separate bedrooms. Valerie's twin, Sharon, had been out that night and when she got home around midnight(or was it 11pm?) she stopped by her sister's bedroom to return a borrowed raincoat. At that time Valerie was sitting up in bed watching tv. Sharon is the last person to have seen Valerie alive. I believe the murder happened closer to dawn, around 4-5 AM.

mysteriew
10-13-2005, 01:59 PM
Any signs of sexual assault?
JBean, how old would you and your siblings have been at the time of the breakin? What I am thinking of is the recent string of break in's, where they break in and take a child and leave the house with her to sexually assault and murder.
Also, how close was your house to theirs? Is there any possibility that they could have mistaken your house for theirs? Was there any similiarities in either the houses or the family members where the perp could have gotten the wrong house?

Marilynilpa
10-13-2005, 02:32 PM
Any signs of sexual assault?
JBean, how old would you and your siblings have been at the time of the breakin? What I am thinking of is the recent string of break in's, where they break in and take a child and leave the house with her to sexually assault and murder.
Also, how close was your house to theirs? Is there any possibility that they could have mistaken your house for theirs? Was there any similiarities in either the houses or the family members where the perp could have gotten the wrong house?
Today is the first time I've read or heard about this case, so I have a lot of catching up to do.

My first question, though, is this - why didn't the dog bark?

HeartofTexas
10-13-2005, 02:58 PM
My gut feeling is that the Percy family doesn't want the attention a cold case expose on TV would bring. They are/were a very political family. Sharon, Valerie's twin sister, is now married to Jay Rockefeller. I believe he is/was governor of West Virginia now. He could be a senator now, too, for all I know.

BTW, the Crime and Justice forum on Valerie Percy is a very good one for anyone wanting to dig deeper into the case

JBean and Lakante, that is absolutely too eerie for words. Whoa! Gives me shudders just thinking about it, and the murder was almost 40 years ago.

rachrach99
10-13-2005, 04:51 PM
My dog is almost 17 yrs old, and lazy, and doesn't do anything really......EXCEPT wake the entire neighborhood up by barking when someone walks within 100ft of my house that isn't supposed to be there. It usually wakes me up enough to at least peak out of the window. Also, why did it take the mother so long to go into Valerie's room? She obviously put up a fight, which I think would have been louder than any glass hitting the floor......just some rambling thoughts

Marilynilpa
10-13-2005, 05:05 PM
My dog is almost 17 yrs old, and lazy, and doesn't do anything really......EXCEPT wake the entire neighborhood up by barking when someone walks within 100ft of my house that isn't supposed to be there. It usually wakes me up enough to at least peak out of the window. Also, why did it take the mother so long to go into Valerie's room? She obviously put up a fight, which I think would have been louder than any glass hitting the floor......just some rambling thoughts
Thanks for your comments. I was also wondering about that - the stepmother hears glass hitting the floor, assumes it's just one of the kids breaking a glass, but doesn't hear what has to have been a noisy battle coming from Valerie's room. The killer must have worked pretty fast, too - he had time to bludgeon Valerie and stab her in a fairly short period of time.

That, plus the fact that the dog didn't bark, makes me think something there's more to this than was ever revealed. Just doesn't seem to add up.

Richard
10-14-2005, 09:29 AM
....That, plus the fact that the dog didn't bark, makes me think something there's more to this than was ever revealed. Just doesn't seem to add up.
Individual dogs behave differently when it comes to intruders, passersby, or family. Some go nuts with their barking at the drop of a hat. Others don't seem to take notice. It is partly the genetic make up of the particular dog, and partly in how the dog has been conditioned and trained by its owner. If a dog is constantly corrected for barking as a pup, then it may be hesitant to bark at potential intruders later in life.

A few years ago, there was a case in the news where a man's SUV was stolen from a gas station with his Labrador Retriever in the back seat. The man was heartbroken and on TV asking that the thief at least return his dog. A friend of mine, hearing the story, wondered why the guy would even want a dog that did nothing to protect his car. That said, it has always been my opinion that the best security system is to have a good dog.

There was another dog in the news a while back, this one a Chesapeake Bay Retriever. The dog's owners were awakened by noises of a commotion and some barking by the dog. Checking downstairs, the man saw an open window and some burgler tools on the floor. He called police who came to the house, looked about briefly, assumed that the burglar had been scared off, and started to write up their report. Meanwhile, the dog continued to sit facing a closet door, growling now and then. The police asked the owner to hold the dog back, and then opened the closet door, where they found the burgler crouching in fear and begging them to keep the dog away.

Marilynilpa
10-14-2005, 09:58 AM
Individual dogs behave differently when it comes to intruders, passersby, or family. Some go nuts with their barking at the drop of a hat. Others don't seem to take notice. It is partly the genetic make up of the particular dog, and partly in how the dog has been conditioned and trained by its owner. If a dog is constantly corrected for barking as a pup, then it may be hesitant to bark at potential intruders later in life.

A few years ago, there was a case in the news where a man's SUV was stolen from a gas station with his Labrador Retriever in the back seat. The man was heartbroken and on TV asking that the thief at least return his dog. A friend of mine, hearing the story, wondered why the guy would even want a dog that did nothing to protect his car. That said, it has always been my opinion that the best security system is to have a good dog.

There was another dog in the news a while back, this one a Chesapeake Bay Retriever. The dog's owners were awakened by noises of a commotion and some barking by the dog. Checking downstairs, the man saw an open window and some burgler tools on the floor. He called police who came to the house, looked about briefly, assumed that the burglar had been scared off, and started to write up their report. Meanwhile, the dog continued to sit facing a closet door, growling now and then. The police asked the owner to hold the dog back, and then opened the closet door, where they found the burgler crouching in fear and begging them to keep the dog away.
This was in the newspaper account of the murder:

"The police conducted an extensive investigation and theorized the murderer was familiar with the layout of the Percy estate because the family dog alerted no one to the intrusion. "

That makes me think that the dog usually barked at outsiders. But that could just be a faulty assumption on my part.

rachrach99
10-14-2005, 12:53 PM
This was in the newspaper account of the murder:

"The police conducted an extensive investigation and theorized the murderer was familiar with the layout of the Percy estate because the family dog alerted no one to the intrusion. "

That makes me think that the dog usually barked at outsiders. But that could just be a faulty assumption on my part.
I agree, that is what I get out of that statement. So, maybe the "intruder" was a regular on the property......

Marilynilpa
10-14-2005, 12:57 PM
I agree, that is what I get out of that statement. So, maybe the "intruder" was a regular on the property......
That was my thought. It was someone the dog was used to seeing. Does anyone know if this dog normally lived inside the house?

rachrach99
10-14-2005, 02:45 PM
Does anyone know if and how many people they might have employed at the home.........housekeeper, gardener, ect ?

Marilynilpa
10-14-2005, 03:17 PM
Does anyone know if and how many people they might have employed at the home.........housekeeper, gardener, ect ?
The "Crime Library" coverage of this murder says"

"The family's two servants, Frederick Millington and Henry Witting, were scrutinized but cleared."

It doesn't make any mention of outside workers, i.e., gardeners, etc.

I have a subscription to NewspaperArchive.com, and when I have a chance I'll do some research on this to see what was reported at the time.

rachrach99
10-14-2005, 04:05 PM
Thanks for the info. :)

Marilynilpa
10-19-2005, 04:08 PM
I have searched NewspaperArchives.com and come up with literally hundreds of articles pertaining to the murder of Valerie Percy. I have read several of those articles, and it appears, at least from the earliest articles, that the police suspected whoever killed Valerie had to know the layout of the house. Also, the timing of when Valerie's stepmother first heard the glass break and when she finally went to Valerie's room raise some questions in my mind. But I'll wait until I've read all the articles, then will comment more on that.

There have been a few suspects in the murder of Valerie, with a couple of people pointing the finger of suspicion on each other.

Of interest to me is the fact that one month after her murder, the police had received almost 1100 tips from the public, none of which turned up any useful information.

I know there are people posting on this thread that know the area where this murder occurred, and know the police in that area. From what I read, there had never been a murder in this area before, and the local police really didn't have any idea how to conduct a murder investigation. I'd like to hear from those "in the know" as to whether you think that is a fair assessment. I know that eventually, other police departments as well as the FBI became involved in this murder investigation, but not until a few weeks after it happened.

I know the Percy family was (and still is, I believe) a prominent family in that area. I wonder if the police would "look the other way" if evidence was uncovered that pointed to a family member committing this murder?:confused:

I'll read more of the articles and let you know if I find anything of interest.

JBean
04-04-2010, 09:46 PM
bumping for cold case discussion :)
Old case that deserves new attention.

MaryLiz
04-05-2010, 02:05 PM
Here is an interesting article from last month about a speech given by a former crime reporter. He mentions the Valerie Percy murder and says many homicide detectives think the crime was a personal one, and was committed by someone she knew, and not by someone who intended to rob the house.

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/newssun/news/2111337,5_1_WA19_DRUMMOND_S1-100319.article


Moderators - Is there any way you can add Valerie Percy's name to the title of the thread so no one starts a new thread if they do a search for her name? TIA

MaryLiz
04-07-2010, 09:30 AM
Thanks JBean!

Bargle
04-07-2010, 12:05 PM
Here is an interesting article from last month about a speech given by a former crime reporter. He mentions the Valerie Percy murder and says many homicide detectives think the crime was a personal one, and was committed by someone she knew, and not by someone who intended to rob the house.

Thanks for bringing this one back to the top. Valerie's murder is a case that I've been interested in for several years. I agree, it was not a burglary gone wrong. However, I don't think she was murdered for personal reasons. I think she was killed by an unidentified serial killer. I'll go into my reasons another time. I'm on my lunch break at work and don't have access to my notes and articles on the murder.

Unfortunately for the solving of this crime, there were a lot of side issues going on at the Percy home at the time, not to mention SKs were unlikely to considered or a crime recognized as such by LE of the day.

MaryLiz
04-07-2010, 08:37 PM
Thanks for bringing this one back to the top. Valerie's murder is a case that I've been interested in for several years. I agree, it was not a burglary gone wrong. However, I don't think she was murdered for personal reasons. I think she was killed by an unidentified serial killer. I'll go into my reasons another time. I'm on my lunch break at work and don't have access to my notes and articles on the murder.

Unfortunately for the solving of this crime, there were a lot of side issues going on at the Percy home at the time, not to mention SKs were unlikely to considered or a crime recognized as such by LE of the day.

I'm interested in hearing what you have in your notes and articles about the case when you have time. I've been fascinated by this case too for quite some time. I actually remember when it happened...I was only 13 at the time, but I remember reading about it in our papers in Ohio and being freaked out by it!

Bargle
04-07-2010, 09:09 PM
I'm interested in hearing what you have in your notes and articles about the case when you have time. I've been fascinated by this case too for quite some time. I actually remember when it happened...I was only 13 at the time, but I remember reading about it in our papers in Ohio and being freaked out by it!

Be warned, it may end up taking several days. :)
In reading over the thread, there are several questions and statements I want to address. There are many things about this case that can seem unlikely to someone not familiar with the details. I want to be sure I have my ducks in a row before answering them. I also need to link some photos and drawings that can help to clarify things.

Bargle
04-08-2010, 09:48 PM
Did a bit of looking at old stuff tonight. Looks like it's going to be more like 2 or 3 weeks to get this info organized. Whew!

MaryLiz
04-08-2010, 10:04 PM
Did a bit of looking at old stuff tonight. Looks like it's going to be more like 2 or 3 weeks to get this info organized. Whew!

That's ok....just take your time. I'll be happy to read through it whenever you have time. Thanks!

Bargle
04-11-2010, 05:57 PM
Here's a couple of updated links to things.
The TruTV story about Valerie.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/

The only current message board with a large amount of discussion about Valerie's case that I'm aware of is True Crimes and Beyond. Anyone interested in this case should read through the old threads there. There's much good information and discussion that goes beyond what I'll be able to include in my summaries that I'll be posting here.
http://forums.delphiforums.com/coldcases/

Both incarnations of the previously mentioned Crime and Justice board have closed.

MaryLiz
04-13-2010, 11:05 AM
Here's a couple of updated links to things.
The TruTV story about Valerie.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/

The only current message board with a large amount of discussion about Valerie's case that I'm aware of is True Crimes and Beyond. Anyone interested in this case should read through the old threads there. There's much good information and discussion that goes beyond what I'll be able to include in my summaries that I'll be posting here.
http://forums.delphiforums.com/coldcases/

Both incarnations of the previously mentioned Crime and Justice board have closed.

Thanks for posting the links. I had read the Crime Library story some time ago. The discussion at DelphiForums is interesting. You certainly do have lots of good info on this case. I don't know where I stand as far as who I think did it. You said you thought it was a UID serial killer. I'll have to look in Newspaper Archives when I get time and see if I can find any articles on unsolved murders in the general area. A serial killer is a good theory, but I'm also leaning towards something personal, maybe not against Valerie, but possibly something to do with politics?? I don't know, it's such a baffling case. I definitely have to read more about it. I'm looking forward to you posting your updated version of the Valerie Case Overview on DelphiForums when you have the time.

KLCD620
04-13-2010, 02:39 PM
I was familiar with the murder case of Valerie Percy from the old detective magazine. The victim's family were all sleep at home when the crime occurred. Her mother failed to turn on the light when the killer flashed the light toward her eyes. She ran back to her bedroom to alert her husband. The case would be solve if she turn on the light & see the killer in person and have Charles and son run across the hall for defense in case he attack her. But it was too late as the killer was gone as Charles come in the room for check out. It becomed cold case for almost 44 yrs. The victim's family are all alive as of today.

I still think it's 2 possible reasons for Valerie being killed: she rejected romance/dating advances from the guy (killer) or tried to eliminate Charles Percy from being candidate for IL senator. The killer have no trouble to find her from break entry to her door.

Bargle
04-19-2010, 12:01 AM
For some reason, the link I posted to the Crime Library story dropped the part for Valerie's specific article. Here it is again, correctly, I hope.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/valerie_percy/

:+:MrTT:+:
04-19-2010, 12:04 AM
http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/valerie_percy/4-1-Sketch-of-suspect.jpghttp://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo125/littlehorn/joepa.jpgihttp://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/valerie_percy/10-1-Frederick-Malchow.jpghttp://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/valerie_percy/9-1-Frank-Hohimer.jpg

did not take time to cut out the photo on the right of the football coach, so you can just disregard it. Just thought it was an interesting compassion and remembered seeing it, when i view the stech of Valeries murderer.
the two photos on the far right........does either one of them, resemble the penn states student murder stecht , second from left

and if someone can find, a picture of this man below from the late 60s early 70s please provide a link and or picture thank you in advance.
his name is John Brennan Crutchley
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/John_Crutchley.jpg/200px-John_Crutchley.jpg

MaryLiz
04-19-2010, 09:20 AM
Thanks for finding those comparison sketches, MrTT...I see a slight resemblance between the sketches of Valerie Percy's murderer and Betsy Aardsma's. And the murders were only 3 years apart - Valerie was murdered in 1966 and Betsy in 1969 - so I guess anything is possible.

texaslb218
04-19-2010, 11:49 AM
Going on a long-ago memory, but wasn't Sen. Percey remarried, so that would have been the twin's stepmother? Correct me or whack-a-mole me if I'm wrong.

MaryLiz
04-19-2010, 01:26 PM
Going on a long-ago memory, but wasn't Sen. Percey remarried, so that would have been the twin's stepmother? Correct me or whack-a-mole me if I'm wrong.

No, you're right. The woman who saw Valerie being attacked was her stepmother, Loraine. Valerie's mother Jeanne, Sen Percy's first wife, died in 1947 and he remarried in 1950. Here is the Wiki article for Sen. Percy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_H._Percy

shadowangel
04-19-2010, 11:46 PM
I'm just going by what is posted here, without much independent digging...But after being so deeply involved in the Debbie Fijan case, I can't help seeing a few parallels To Richard Macek's other murders.

1966...Young female victim, beaten and stabbed...Possible stalking/voyeurism...Chicago suburb...and teeth marks (possible evidence of biting)--Macek's "signature". Even the sketch resembles a younger version of Macek.

Just tossing it out there so it isn't rattling around in my head anymore.

Bargle
04-20-2010, 07:20 AM
1966...Young female victim, beaten and stabbed...Possible stalking/voyeurism...Chicago suburb...and teeth marks (possible evidence of biting)--Macek's "signature".
I was going to mention this in one of my overview posts, but let me clear this up right now so sleuthers don't go down a blind alley. The marks on Valerie's hands are not described as bite marks. Rather they are abrasions believed caused by Valerie striking her killer in the mouth during the struggle. I'll be posting links to old newspaper articles with the coroner's remarks when I put up the overview.

There not being bite marks doesn't exclude Macek, so he remains a fair suspect.

Bargle
04-25-2010, 12:47 PM
Before I get into the actual case discussion, I want to state that the information contained in these case overview posts is the result of the efforts of many people. There have been 3 major crime discussion boards that have had large scale discussions on the Valerie Percy murder. Many fine people have contributed to the information in this and the following posts.

A general warning: The great majority of information we have on the case comes from newspaper articles of the time, very little from LE itself or people involved in the case, like Jbean. Sometimes the info is incorrect or outdated, especially from the early stages of the investigation. I'll try to not include, or address such info as it comes up.

A Rough Timeline of Events That Night
This covers the evening of Sept. 17 to the morning of Sept. 18, 1966. All times are APPROXIMATE unless otherwise noted. The murder took place during the time of Charles Percy's campaign for Senator. The scene was the Percy home, called Windward, in Kenilworth Ill., between Winnetka and Wilmette.

10:00 pm Valerie and her step-mother, Loraine, finish having dinner with 2 young campaign workers, James Mann and Tully Friedman. Valerie goes up to her room.
11:30 pm Valerie's sister, Sharon, returns home from a date. She goes to Valerie's room to return her raincoat. Valerie is in her nightclothes and watching TV from her bed. (Note: Chicago Tribune story puts this at 11:00 approx.)
12:30 am Valerie's father, Charles Percy, returns home from campaign duties. He watches TV with Loraine for about an hour and then they both retire for the night. (Note: Chicago Tribune story puts this at midnight approx.)
4:45-4:55 am Loraine is partially awakened by the sound of glass breaking. She thinks someone has knocked over a drinking glass and goes back to sleep.
5:00-5:03 am Loraine is awakened again, fully this time, by the sound of someone moaning. She goes down the hall, first to Sharon's room where she hears nothing, then to Valerie's. She opens the door and sees a man bending over the bed, shining a flashlight on Valerie's bloody body and bed. She screams in surprise. The man shines the flashlight in her eyes, briefly blinding her. Loraine steps back, turns and runs to rouse Charles. The attacker runs out of the bedroom, down the stairs and out the french door.
5:05 am Loraine trips the burglar alarm siren mounted on the roof. This is the only timemark that is consistently agreed on in all the different accounts of the events. Mr. Percy goes to his daughter's room. Loraine either accompanies him or follows soon after. The alarm siren wakens the next door neighbors, Dr. Robert and Nydia Hohf. Nydia Hohf runs out to the back yard. From here she can see the south side of the Percy house and the private beach. She sees no one. The phone rings inside the Hohf's. It's Mr. Percy asking Dr. Hohf to come and see Valerie. Dr. Hohf puts on pants over his pajamas and goes next door.
5:07-5:10 am Mr. Percy meets Dr. Hohf at the door. He goes straight to Valerie's room. He is unable to help her. He goes downstairs and tells the Percys that Valerie is dead. Loraine says she thought she detected a pulse in her wrist just before Dr. Hohf got there. Mr. Percy phoned for the Kenilworth police while the doctor was upstairs.
5:15 am or later The police arrive and the investigation begins.

Bargle
04-25-2010, 01:18 PM
People in the case.

Family:
Charles H. (Chuck) Percy (Father)
Jeanne Dickerson Percy (Mother of Valerie, died in )
Loraine Guyer Percy (Stepmother)
Sharon Percy (Twin Sister)
Roger Percy (Younger Brother)
Gail Percy (Younger Half-Sister)
Mark Percy (Younger Half-Brother)
Mrs. E. H. Percy (Grandmother)
Mrs. Leigh D. Guyer (Step-Grandmother)

Campaign workers Valerie had dinner with 9/18
James Mann
Tully Friedman

The Percy Housemen
Frederick Millington
Henry Witting

Eulogized Valerie's Funeral
Reverend William R. Hodgson

Medical
Dr. Andrew J. Toman (Coroner)
Sidney Berman (Assistant Coroner)
Dr. Kesert (Administered a Truth Serum To Mark A. Smith)
Dr. Robert Hohf (Pronounced Valerie dead & also a neighbor.)

Witness & Neighbor
Mrs. Nydia Hohf (Witnessed no activity in the rear area of the Percy home.)

Politicians
Richard Nixon (Attended Funeral)
Senator Paul Douglas (Dem.-IL. - Percy's opponent)
Thomas J. Houser (Percy's state campaign manager)

Law Enforcement (At Least 25 were involved. )
Chief Robert M. Daley
Supt. Orlando W. Wilson
Kenilworth policeman, Gary Wolson
Sgt. James Moore
Det. Hartwell McGuinn
Lt. Nicholas Juric
Lt. Richard Robb
Robert Lamb
Capt. Daniel Dragel
Det. John Nebergall
Joe DeLeonardo
Cook Co. State's Attorney Edward V. Hanrahan

Career Home Invasion Burglars / Suspects / Mob Connections, Etc.
Frederick "Freddie" J. Malchow
Harold James "Jimmy" Evans / Evens
Francis Leroy Hohimer
Danny Malchow
Robert Stanfield
Harold Wayne Hohimer (brother of Francis H. Owned car lot. Was a gambling addict)
Norman Jackson
Mark Allen Smith (Convicted Murderer of No Less Than 12 )
Leo Rugendorf (gave burglary job assignments to Hohimer, Malchow etc.)
William Jackson
"Fat Nello" Sammarco (Fence to the break-in gang.)

Authors / Writers / Reporters, Etc.
Hugh F. Hough
Arthur M. Petacque
Ben Winters
Myron Farber
Jon K. Hahn
Andrew Gordon
Harold C. McKenney
Kenilworth PO Gary Wolson
Sandy Smith

Bargle
04-25-2010, 01:31 PM
Physical Evidence
This info isn't presented in any particular order.

Valerie's Wounds: There are differences between the various accounts. Since we don't have the actual autopsy report, we can't say which is accurate so I'll try to list all the variations.
1. 1-4 blows to the head. These were the cause of death. They were made with an object having a small conical shape. Coroner Toman described the injuries to Valerie's skull as being triangular in shape and speculated that they might have been made by a fireplace poker. There were other statements that the weapon might have been a ball peen hammer with the ball face reground to a point.
2. 10-14 stab wounds to the neck, upper body and stomach inflicted with a double edged weapon.
3. Abrasions to the hands that might have been made by a tooth or teeth and her legs were drawn up in a defensive position and there were bruises on her left foot and knees.

Physical evidence left by the killer:
1. There was a trail of barefoot prints on the beach leading to and from the rear of the Percy home.
2. There was an opening cut into the screen door at the rear of the house. The object used left behind a blue residue.
3. There was a pane of glass cut out of the french doors. A fingerprint was later found on this pane. It was never matched to anyone and may not have been left by the murderer.
4. Palm and finger prints were left on the door frame of Valerie's room and on the stairway railing. Accounts differ as to whether or not they were in blood. If not, then they might have nothing to do with the murder.
5. A bayonet was found in nearby Lake Michigan. It could not be proved to be or not to be the murder weapon. There was an unconfirmed story that Charles Percy had a bayonet that went missing.
6. A small, wet, cloth and leather glove was found in a shrub. Somw accounts say it had blood on it. It has not been linked definitely to the murder.
7. A brown moccasin shoe was found on the beach near the Percy home. It is not known if it was connected to the murder.
8. A pocket watch was found several blocks from the home. It is not known if it was connected to the murder.
9. A second knife, rusty, was found on a bluff overlooking a public beach next to the Percy's private beach. It isn't known if this knife was connected to the murder.
10. Hair and fibers were found in the bedroom that did not belong to Valerie.
11. Half of a pair of kitchen shears was found nearby. Valerie's wounds did not match such an object and it likely is not related to her murder.
12. Something that probably doesn't exist, a pair of bloody trousers supposedly worn by Freddie Malchow during the murder. I only list it because it is mentioned in some newspaper articles.

Layout of the House
The patio and music room where the killer entered the house are on the northeast corner.
The music room leads into the living room which leads into the vestibule which is where the staircase leading to the upper floor is.
The upper floor bedrooms heading towards Valerie's bedroom were in this order.
Sharon's, Mark's (empty), then Valerie's in the northeast corner. The door to Valerie's room was in the same wall that the head of the beds were against. There were 2 beds in Valerie's room. She was in the one farthest from the door.
Mr. and Mrs. Percy's master bedroom was in the south section as was that of younger sister Gail.
One report states that it was at least 35 feet from Valerie's room to the master bedroom.
The main part of the house was connected to the garage by a passageway. It was here that the family dog was kept that night. The garage is at the west end of the house away from where the killer entered. The houseman was in the room over the garage. It is a large 4 car garage. We don't know which end the houseman's room is at.

Bargle
04-25-2010, 01:45 PM
Description of killer by Loraine Percy: White male wth dark hair. About 5'8", 160 lbs. He was wearing a checkered shirt.
Police theory on the weapon used to inflict the skull: A ball peen hammer with the round face re-ground to a point resembling a jeweler's hammer.
Cook County Coroner Andrew Toman speculated the head wound might have been inflicted with something like a fire poker because of the triangular shape of the skull fracture.
Coroner's office men carelessly left their own prints in critical areas at the crime scene. They had to be printed so theirs could be eliminated.
The dog that didn't bark: There have been 2 explanations given for this. Either, or both, may be true.
1. The dog had become accustomed to strangers around the house and didn't bark at anyone unless they were in uniform.
2. The dog was locked in the walkway area between the house and the garage and couldn't hear anything.
Some newspaper accounts say there were 2 dogs, but this seems to be wrong, there was just one dog.

A taxi driver told police he saw a green station wagon pull out of the Percy driveway between 4:30 and 5:00 a.m.
Investigators studied a police artist's sketch of a cat burglar who invaded the bedroom of a 19-year-old girl, Sharon Bubes, in suburban Evanston, near Kenilworth, last June and attacked her with a ball peen hammer. Police said the case had striking similarities with the slaying of 21-year-old Valerie.
The artist's conception of the cat burglar was to be shown to potential witnesses in the Percy case. Loraine agreed that the sketch resembled Valerie's killer.
The composite, is that of a white male, long thin face with dark hair and large dark glasses.
There was a phone call made from the Percy estate to a business owned by Leo Rugendorf sometime after the murder.

MaryLiz
04-26-2010, 10:01 PM
Thanks for posting all the details of the case on here, Bargle. I haven't had the chance to read through it all yet, but I appreciate you taking the time to post it. Thanks! :)

JBean
04-26-2010, 10:39 PM
I have the original article from the Trib where the intruder broke into my home the night before. I will see if there is any good info on it.

Bargle
04-27-2010, 08:06 AM
Thanks for posting all the details of the case on here, Bargle. I haven't had the chance to read through it all yet, but I appreciate you taking the time to post it. Thanks! :)

You're welcome. There's more to come. In addition to the article Jbean will be adding (Thanks for that, Jbean. I think I've got a copy of it as well from one of the old boards, just in case.) I'll be adding some more articles, especially some that illustrate the crime scene or have pictures about the case. This is a case where understanding the layout of the home really helps in understanding the actions of the people involved that night.

Luckymanuh
04-27-2010, 10:11 AM
Hi Bargle, good to see you again. Glad to see you are trying to peak new interest in this almost forgotten case.

Luckymanuh

Bargle
04-27-2010, 11:33 AM
Hi Lucky. I never quite go away, I just take a break sometimes. :crazy:

JBean
04-27-2010, 02:37 PM
This article right here is the one about my family. I have it in my files and it may be interesting because there is infomration regarding the thought process and suspects at the time. The link is not to the article, but I do have a physical copy. I will review it as soon as I can and see if there is nything of interest in it.

"Earlier Prowler Hunted in Percy Slaying," by Sandy Smith, Chicago Sun-Times, Sept. 30.1966

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/valerie_percy/15.html

nadjatheresa
04-27-2010, 03:51 PM
This article right here is the one about my family. I have it in my files and it may be interesting because there is infomration regarding the thought process and suspects at the time. The link is not to the article, but I do have a physical copy. I will review it as soon as I can and see if there is nything of interest in it.

"Earlier Prowler Hunted in Percy Slaying," by Sandy Smith, Chicago Sun-Times, Sept. 30.1966

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/valerie_percy/15.html

JBean, you said your father foiled the intruder the night before the Percy incident and then called police.

Does this mean area residents may have been aware of the attempted break-in at your house before the Percy murder took place?

Do you know how quickly and based on what evidence police linked the Percy incident to the one at your house?

nadjatheresa
04-27-2010, 04:06 PM
<...snipped...>

4:45-4:55 am Loraine is partially awakened by the sound of glass breaking. She thinks someone has knocked over a drinking glass and goes back to sleep.
5:00-5:03 am Loraine is awakened again, fully this time, by the sound of someone moaning. She goes down the hall, first to Sharon's room where she hears nothing, then to Valerie's. She opens the door and sees a man bending over the bed, shining a flashlight on Valerie's bloody body and bed. She screams in surprise. The man shines the flashlight in her eyes, briefly blinding her. Loraine steps back, turns and runs to rouse Charles. The attacker runs out of the bedroom, down the stairs and out the french door.

<...>

BBM

Is there any theory about how the killer was able to see while he committed the crime? He (or she) would have had to see his way up the stairs, to Valerie's room, and see which bed she was in (although s/he may have known the house). Then bludgeon and stab her and engage in a struggle.

Was there ever an arrest in the Sharon Bubes case? Did police think her attack was with a modified ball peen hammer, or a regular one?

JBean
04-27-2010, 05:18 PM
JBean, you said your father foiled the intruder the night before the Percy incident and then called police.

Does this mean area residents may have been aware of the attempted break-in at your house before the Percy murder took place?

Do you know how quickly and based on what evidence police linked the Percy incident to the one at your house?
Our break in was 24 hours prior to Valerie's murder. The intruder broke into our house at about 4:30 am. My father saw a "youth" riding away on a bicycle but had no way of knowing if it was the same person that had broken in. They did take footprint casts from the flowerbed and there was a broken gutter where he hung from my mothers dressing room before falling to the ground.
As I recall it, a connection was made almost immediately the next day due to the time of day and the method of entry.
Immediate area residents would have been aware, but we were in Winnetka and maybe a mile from the Percy residence. But certainly they were back at our house right away after the news of the murder broke. I was 9 at the time, but happened to be sleeping in the master sun porch that night and so I remember it well.

JBean
04-27-2010, 05:21 PM
here is the article

nadjatheresa
04-27-2010, 05:40 PM
From an ABC 40th anniversary article on the murder. Sharon is quoted in this article.

link (http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news&id=4563621)


Joe Dileonardi knows murder. The former Chicago police superintendent was an Area 6 homicide cop in 1966 called into the Percy case when Kenilworth realized the murder was more than it could handle.

"She was found Sunday at 5 a.m. We got there Monday morning and it was 24 hours old, and we get to the crime scene and there was none, no crime scene, the room where she was murdered was completely renovated. You cannot conduct a homicide investigation like this," said Dileonardi.

"If this crime were to happen today, you would have a group of people who would immediately begin investigating. There would be no delay, there would be no chaos involved in trying to figure out who's going to investigate what or who is going to be part of the investigation," said Sgt. David Miller.

"This was not a burglar, nothing was touched, not a thing was touched in that house," said Joseph Dileonardi. "A burglar would not strike a victim 14 times, a stick up person does not strike a victim 14 times. the other motive, the last motive, was revenge and that's what I think happened to Valerie Percy."

JBean
04-27-2010, 05:41 PM
you can see by the article that by Thursday they were looking for our prowler in connection with the Percy murder.

nadjatheresa
04-27-2010, 05:51 PM
here is the article

This is so interesting. Roughly same time of night (early morning) but at your house he scaled a pipe to the second story, cut through the screen and forced the French window in, whereas at the Percy house the perp supposedly cut the screen and then used a glass cutter to cut a hole in the French door glass to gain entry.

They never caught the intruder at your house, JBean? You do not know who he was or why he was really there, although you presume burglary?

The footprint casts---did they compare them with the barefoot prints in the sand at the Percy beach?

nadjatheresa
04-27-2010, 05:54 PM
Sharon stopped by Valerie's room to return a raincoat. Was it raining that night? Weather Underground only goes back to 1970.

If it was raining, would there have been wet shoeprints (or footprints) in the house?

MaryLiz
04-27-2010, 05:57 PM
Thanks for posting your article, JBean. Wow - how frightening that must have been. It certainly does seem like the 2 cases are connected, and also the case of the girl attacked with the ball peen hammer in Evanston the previous June. You were very lucky your father awoke when he did. Thankfully, no one from your family was attacked!

I'm wondering if the guy on the CTA bus had anything to do with Valerie's murder and the other break-ins. It said in your article that he closely resembled the suspect. I have always wondered about him. I read in another article that he was talking with both Sharon and Valerie on the bus, and I thought the same article said that he followed them for a ways after they got off the bus. I'll have to see if I can find the article.

Thanks again for posting yours news article.

JBean
04-27-2010, 05:58 PM
This is so interesting. Roughly same time of night (early morning) but at your house he scaled a pipe to the second story, cut through the screen and forced the French window in, whereas at the Percy house the perp supposedly cut the screen and then used a glass cutter to cut a hole in the French door glass to gain entry.

They never caught the intruder at your house, JBean? You do not know who he was or why he was really there, although you presume burglary?

The footprint casts---did they compare them with the barefoot prints in the sand at the Percy beach?
I have doubts as to whether it was the same person, but I will say that our french windows were probably easy to push open. IIRC, there were similar tool markings left on the screen and that was the big connect.
BUT, I do not think that Kenilworth police really knew what they had.
The intruder was never caught and I am going to think on your question of rain.
My parents had a sun porch off their bedroom that I liked to sleep in as a girl just for the heck of it. It would have been even better if it was raining. But I do not recall.
I do remember looking at the kickmarks in the side of the house and at the flower bed with the footprint. I am trying to remember if they were 'wet' prints. My GUESS is that while it may not have been raining that night, it had been raining. I will ask my sister. She followed this case very closely and she is the one that brought me here to Websleuths.

nadjatheresa
04-27-2010, 06:01 PM
<...snipped...>

I was 9 at the time, but happened to be sleeping in the master sun porch that night and so I remember it well.

That is a very sensitive age. It must have been terrifying.

:+:MrTT:+:
04-27-2010, 06:21 PM
Without anyone going to a lot of trouble to find out.
I was just curious if anyone knows, if the Percy s had any work done on the home or any yard work done, during the summer etc, any remodeling inside or out, that was finished a few days or so before the murder?
Between June and August perhaps?
especially any indoor work.
Tia

Sept 18,1966
And a Sunday, why Sunday, why not Friday or Saturday
Was it due to family plans?....a change in plans perhaps?
Was she leaving on that Monday?
so it had to be Sunday?
Some one whom knew about the comings and goings of the family?
Just thinking out loud.

Just from reading what is posted here, and i am waiting for the photos of the layout inside the house!
If, and that's a strong if, the barefoot prints did in fact belong to the killer, i find that strange, seems normally one would not go to kill wearing no shoes?.....Unless its something that they have become accustom to.
someone living by a beach, that spends time walking up and down the beach barefoot. then perhaps on this night, they left where they were and left barefoot?.......just speculating.
And thinking out loud once again, i know the one said revenge.
but determining by the photos when posted, and from what i read, it seems coming upstairs to the sleeping area, the killer came a pond Valeries room first yes?
And if that is the case, then perhaps this person had the intention, of killing the whole family, and not just the girl?

Thinking out loud again.
No screaming heard?
Had to be really quite.
to hear the class breaking downstairs, to hear Valerie moaning.........according the the step mother i believe it was.
From what i have read here already, no one else heard anything is that correct? .....But no screaming, brutal attack, i guess its possible, just seems strange to hear, glass break and someone moaning, but not hear any screams or any other disturbance one would make if they were being brutally murdered in a quite home. I guess its possible, and did happened, that's what she said.
Gave the description to, man etc ran downstairs, and exit the same way he came in........
thats right, instead of waking the husband , she got out of bed, and went and checked the rooms, without being concerned with safety, even though few minutes early she heard glass break downstairs........then she walked in on Valerie being murdered, and then she went back to her room to awaken the husband and tell him what she seen.
Not implying anything against the step mother here, just seems strange her , Valerie being murdered like that, and no one but the step mother hears and sees nothing on that quite morning.

nadjatheresa
04-27-2010, 06:55 PM
<...snipped...>

Sept 18,1966
And a Sunday, why Sunday, why not Friday or Saturday
Was it due to family plans?....a change in plans perhaps?
Was she leaving on that Monday?
so it had to be Sunday?
Some one whom knew about the comings and goings of the family?
Just thinking out loud.

<...>


The ABC article says she'd have started at Johns Hopkins in "two days" and I don't know if they meant two days from Saturday or Sunday (since the killing was sort of in the middle of the night, although it was nearer dawn):

Twenty-one-year old Valerie Jeanne Percy had graduated from Cornell that summer and was two days away from postgraduate studies at Johns Hopkins University.

Because you bring up a good question. When was she planning to travel from Chicago to Baltimore?

:+:MrTT:+:
04-27-2010, 07:26 PM
The ABC article says she'd have started at Johns Hopkins in "two days" and I don't know if they meant two days from Saturday or Sunday (since the killing was sort of in the middle of the night, although it was nearer dawn):

Twenty-one-year old Valerie Jeanne Percy had graduated from Cornell that summer and was two days away from postgraduate studies at Johns Hopkins University.

Because you bring up a good question. When was she planning to travel from Chicago to Baltimore?


random killing perhaps.
But more then likely, im speulating of course, but pre- meditated.
Lets say it was that Monday, or Tuesday..........then it had to be Sunday, Sunday was the last chance to kill her, almost at the last moment, it had to be done that night, morning, for she may had been gone come that Monday morni9ng sometime.
Sunday was the last chance to do it.
And perhaps, someone knew that, that she was leaving and when she was leaving, so it had to be done there and then.
Its almost as if they were waiting until the last possible moment, for they was not sure 100 percent what she was going to do, as if she had not made up her mind totally about leaving in two days, and the killer wanted to be sure.

And the flashlight, I don't understand.
she walked into the room, did she turn the light on first and seen the man before he shined the light in her face, or did she open the door, and it was dark, but there was some moonlight shinning in, and she seen him before he shinned the light in her face......
I am confused on this part of the investigation.
Did all family members, those whom were in the house, take polygraph tests?, I believe they were available and was being done back in that time yes?

And i know she could had flown, if she wanted to.........but does anyone know, if perhaps she could have taken a train instead?
Just curious about it.

:+:MrTT:+:
04-27-2010, 07:51 PM
[quote=Bargle;5112558]There was a phone call made from the Percy estate to a business owned by Leo Rugendorf sometime after the murder.


sometime after the murder?
Do you mean that as in a long time after , or do you mean in a short time after the murder?
And any ideas of a connection, the reason behind the phone call?

Those photos you said you was going to post of the layout of the house, are they photos from that time period 1966?
ACTUAL photos, of inside the house ?
That would be WONDERFUL, if they are, but any photos taken that you can share would be tremendously appreciated.

liz b.
04-27-2010, 08:06 PM
What a strange and fascinating case. What, I wonder,was the motive ? No mention of a sexual assault. Not a robbery, since cash was left at the scene.The killer went to a lot of trouble to kill this young woman. Hardly seems feasable it was a random killing. Makes me want to read and research everything I can find about this case.... All JMO

:+:MrTT:+:
04-27-2010, 08:26 PM
What a strange and fascinating case. What, I wonder,was the motive ? No mention of a sexual assault. Not a robbery, since cash was left at the scene.The killer went to a lot of trouble to kill this young woman. Hardly seems feasable it was a random killing. Makes me want to read and research everything I can find about this case.... All JMO
Yes, motive.
For the life of me, i cant think of anything this child could have done to anyone, that would have caused them, or someone for them, to murder her the way she was killed. She was bright, intelligent etc.
and being 1966 she could have ended up serving some time in another country for charity work.

And then i thought about the father, and politics, being 1966 with all that was going on back then with the war etc. and being in Chicago i thought about the mob, but then realize, back then, i don't believe the mob would have done this to the daughter, to get back at the father. No they would have just delt with the father directly, and left the wife and children alone.

The only motive, i can think of right now.
She was killed, not for something she did, nor was she killed for something she was going to do, but she was killed because of whom she was.

If we had the official investigation reports, where the detectives spoke with family, friends, people at her schools, her hang outs, the neighbors etc etc, perhaps we could speculate on a motive, a more probable motive, with the answers that were given during these interviews.
But we do not have access to that information, which is a shame, especially since, this case has gone on for so long, but like most cold cases, we can only speculate on things with the information we can prove to be true and provided to use by other members.
getting any validation, or confirmation on certain questions asked by members, on cold cases are few and far between, because the people with the answers, such as LE, are not talking, since its still an active investigation, even though its been a cold one, for a very very long time.

liz b.
04-27-2010, 09:01 PM
Yes, motive.
For the life of me, i cant think of anything this child could have done to anyone, that would have caused them, or someone for them, to murder her the way she was killed. She was bright, intelligent etc.
and being 1966 she could have ended up serving some time in another country for charity work.

And then i thought about the father, and politics, being 1966 with all that was going on back then with the war etc. and being in Chicago i thought about the mob, but then realize, back then, i don't believe the mob would have done this to the daughter, to get back at the father. No they would have just delt with the father directly, and left the wife and children alone.

The only motive, i can think of right now.
She was killed, not for something she did, nor was she killed for something she was going to do, but she was killed because of whom she was.

If we had the official investigation reports, where the detectives spoke with family, friends, people at her schools, her hang outs, the neighbors etc etc, perhaps we could speculate on a motive, a more probable motive, with the answers that were given during these interviews.
But we do not have access to that information, which is a shame, especially since, this case has gone on for so long, but like most cold cases, we can only speculate on things with the information we can prove to be true and provided to use by other members.
getting any validation, or confirmation on certain questions asked by members, on cold cases are few and far between, because the people with the answers, such as LE, are not talking, since its still an active investigation, even though its been a cold one, for a very very long time.



"Killed for who she was " Yes,could well be. No murders in that neighborhood in the preceeding 75 years ? That's very telling. What could have made her family,perhaps her father, a target ? Off to read,take notes and wonder..... All JMO

MaryLiz
04-27-2010, 09:14 PM
I have doubts as to whether it was the same person, but I will say that our french windows were probably easy to push open. IIRC, there were similar tool markings left on the screen and that was the big connect.
BUT, I do not think that Kenilworth police really knew what they had.
The intruder was never caught and I am going to think on your question of rain.
My parents had a sun porch off their bedroom that I liked to sleep in as a girl just for the heck of it. It would have been even better if it was raining. But I do not recall.
I do remember looking at the kickmarks in the side of the house and at the flower bed with the footprint. I am trying to remember if they were 'wet' prints. My GUESS is that while it may not have been raining that night, it had been raining. I will ask my sister. She followed this case very closely and she is the one that brought me here to Websleuths.

JBean, do you think maybe Valerie's case could be connected to the break-in at the Evanston home where Sharon Bubes was attacked? The use of the ball peen hammer makes me think those 2 cases might at least be connected. But deep down, as I mentioned before, I've always thought this case might have been related to politics and maybe had something to do with her father.

And then there's the guy on the bus...he's crossed my mind before as a POI when I think about this case.

I could be way off base on both of those theories but the whole thing was just so strange since robbery didn't seem to be a motive.

JBean
04-27-2010, 09:18 PM
I wish my sister were still a member here. she knows everything about this case. she spent a lot of time on it at other boards. She strongly feels there is no reason for this case to have remained unsolved.
There was stuff collected that could be analyzed by today's modern methods.

Then again, this could be a John Gardner that just likes to prey on people with no agenda as to who they are.
But Percy was wildly popular and the politics in Chicago are, well, the politics in Chicago.

delaney
04-27-2010, 09:55 PM
I grew up in Skokie, I remember this case well. I have written this

at another forum, but will put it here also. I was just 16 when

Valarie was killed. It was huge news in Chicago, everyone talked

about it. The men in my family made their living as jewelers. One day

after the murder my dad came home from work and announced that

the police had been in the jewelry store. I could hardly wait until his

hands were washed and he sat down to the dinner table to share his

news. I remember it very clearly. He said the police had been in the

store asking, if a watch from the Percy estate had ever been repaired

there, was there one in the shop now? The police were told no.

It was not until years later in reading about the murder as a cold case,

did I find out that police had been canvasing all the jewelry stores in the

area, because a jeweler's hammer may have been the murder weapon.

After learning that, I asked my uncle,recently, who owned a jewelry store

in a near-by suburb if the cops had also canvased his store. He was not

aware of them comming in, but did remember the murder and expressed

the same opinion as my now elderly mother, "that the step-mother",

had something to do with it, that is what I recall also, lots of talk about

the step-mother.

JBean
04-27-2010, 10:05 PM
I remember you telling me that story delaney. I used to hang out at Old Orchard in Skokie. this was pre-malls :)

nadjatheresa
04-27-2010, 11:35 PM
I have doubts as to whether it was the same person, but I will say that our french windows were probably easy to push open. IIRC, there were similar tool markings left on the screen and that was the big connect.
BUT, I do not think that Kenilworth police really knew what they had.
The intruder was never caught and I am going to think on your question of rain.
My parents had a sun porch off their bedroom that I liked to sleep in as a girl just for the heck of it. It would have been even better if it was raining. But I do not recall.
I do remember looking at the kickmarks in the side of the house and at the flower bed with the footprint. I am trying to remember if they were 'wet' prints. My GUESS is that while it may not have been raining that night, it had been raining. I will ask my sister. She followed this case very closely and she is the one that brought me here to Websleuths.

It would be great to hear your sister's recollections.

This must have been the talk around your house for months, if not years? What an amazing experience.

I was also in a Chicago suburb, but was only a toddler. Even so, I remember the mystery around it and my parents talking about it. But since I was so young it was fuzzy to me and later I confused the Percy family with Percy Faith, thanks to my parents' record collection, LOL, and thought Faith's daughter had been murdered.

I know exactly what you mean about the sun porch and how it would have been even better sleeping there if it had been raining. Maybe your sister will remember. Maybe she will know more about the Sharon Bubes case?

Bargle
04-28-2010, 07:22 AM
[quote=Bargle;5112558]There was a phone call made from the Percy estate to a business owned by Leo Rugendorf sometime after the murder.


sometime after the murder?
Do you mean that as in a long time after , or do you mean in a short time after the murder?
And any ideas of a connection, the reason behind the phone call?

Those photos you said you was going to post of the layout of the house, are they photos from that time period 1966?
ACTUAL photos, of inside the house ?
That would be WONDERFUL, if they are, but any photos taken that you can share would be tremendously appreciated.


The call was a short time after the murder. It was, apparently, someone on the police force tipping Rugendorf that it was an 'inside job'.
I don't have have any photos of the inside of the house, but there are 2 different illustrations from articles showing the murderer's path through the house and the general interior layout. There are photos of the outside. I'll try to get these up in the next couple of days. I want to clean them up a bit, as they have a fair amount ofdiscoloration, stray dots and blotches on them.

Bargle
04-28-2010, 11:43 AM
And the flashlight, I don't understand.
she walked into the room, did she turn the light on first and seen the man before he shined the light in her face, or did she open the door, and it was dark, but there was some moonlight shinning in, and she seen him before he shined the light in her face...
The killer was shining the flashlight on Valerie's body, after he stopped stabbing her, when Loraine reached the room. He turned towards Loraine when she reached the bedroom door and screamed. He shined the light in her eyes then.

liz b.
04-28-2010, 12:18 PM
Chuck Percy was slated to win that senatorial race. His opponent, Paul Douglas, had been in office since 1949. Both candidates were very well liked ; it was just that 1966 was a good year for republican candidates. Percy's politics have been described as liberal to moderate. In the1968 presidential election,Percy was favored for the VP slot on the ticket with Richard Nixon.But Percy endorsed Nelson Rockefeller, as his daughter was married to Jay Rockefeller. Jay Rockefeller is a senator from West Virginia. On the finance commitee at this time.
I do not think this murder had anything at all to do with the politics of the time.

I read that J.Edgar Hoover stepped in and directed the investigation himself. A forensic psychiatrist for the Bureau told him that this was probably a personal crime, a crime of rage by someone who knew the victim. They must have known her well, because she was due in Baltimore a day or so before she was killed. I doubt it was an ex boyfriend ; LE would have looked in that direction very early in the investigation.

What a mystery, and what a beautiful young woman. Were Valerie and her sister identical twins ? Must have been so hard for her sister.

I'm going to keep reading, see what turns up... All JMO

Astrogirl
04-28-2010, 12:56 PM
This case is very fascinating. If Valerie and her sister were identical twins, I wonder if LE thought about the possibility that it was Sharon (that's her sister's name, right?) who was the intended target and not Valerie. Case of mistaken identity. Just a thought.

Stella
04-28-2010, 10:55 PM
This case is very fascinating. If Valerie and her sister were identical twins, I wonder if LE thought about the possibility that it was Sharon (that's her sister's name, right?) who was the intended target and not Valerie. Case of mistaken identity. Just a thought.

You make a good point. I don't think anyone has come up with the "other sister" angle.

Bargle
04-29-2010, 07:35 AM
The 'other sister' angle has been considered before, though not here, obviously. It is a possibility. Valerie and Sharon were identical twins and Sharon was in Valerie's bedroom that night, returning a raincoat. If the killer was lurking outside at the time, he may well have seen Sharon through the window and thought that was her bedroom.

MaryLiz
04-29-2010, 08:12 AM
Here's an article from WLS in Chicago 4 years ago in which Valerie's twin, Sharon, actually speaks about the murder.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news&id=4563621

liz b.
04-29-2010, 12:33 PM
Cambria,
Great article. I found it interesting that LEO Joseph Dileonardi said that when he and other LE officers arrived at the scene 24 hours later " the room had been completely renovated ( I think he meant totally cleaned IMO) " He said : " There was no crime scene " "impossible to do an investigation with no crime scene (paraphrasing). "

I do not believe that this was a case of mistaken identity. I agree with Dileonardi, when he said that it was "all about revenge. "

The house was huge , I can't see how the killer was not someone very close to Valerie ; how else would they have known which bedroom was hers ?

All JMO

Bargle
04-29-2010, 12:43 PM
OK, here's 3 images. 2 drawings of the interior with the killer's route through the house and the suspect sketch from the Bubes assault. Be warned, the drawings are not exactly to scale. Click on the thumbnails to enlarge them.
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/575/killersroute1.th.jpg (http://img26.imageshack.us/i/killersroute1.jpg/)
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4422/killersroute2.th.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/killersroute2.jpg/)
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8444/bubescompositeclean1a.th.jpg (http://img406.imageshack.us/i/bubescompositeclean1a.jpg/)

KLCD620
04-29-2010, 03:36 PM
The 'other sister' angle has been considered before, though not here, obviously. It is a possibility. Valerie and Sharon were identical twins and Sharon was in Valerie's bedroom that night, returning a raincoat. If the killer was lurking outside at the time, he may well have seen Sharon through the window and thought that was her bedroom.

True, we may not know which twin sister the killer is targeting for. It could be wrong person. Valerie is more prettier than Sharon. She helped out Chuck with senator campaign while Sharon is engaged to Jay Rockefeller. None of them/us will know what the killer is revenge for. Being reject by either woman for a date or take Chuck out of the senate race. It's cold case for 44 yrs.

liz b.
04-29-2010, 06:17 PM
Here is an interesting article from last month about a speech given by a former crime reporter. He mentions the Valerie Percy murder and says many homicide detectives think the crime was a personal one, and was committed by someone she knew, and not by someone who intended to rob the house.

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/newssun/news/2111337,5_1_WA19_DRUMMOND_S1-100319.article


Moderators - Is there any way you can add Valerie Percy's name to the title of the thread so no one starts a new thread if they do a search for her name? TIA

Cambria,
That looks like an interesting article ; but it gives a "that page is unavailable " message when I try to open it. Is it available anyplace else ?

MaryLiz
04-29-2010, 08:31 PM
Cambria,
That looks like an interesting article ; but it gives a "that page is unavailable " message when I try to open it. Is it available anyplace else ?

I can't open it now either. :( I went to the Suburban Chicago News main website and searched all the suburban papers and it wasn't there. They must only leave the pages open so long. It basically just said the former crime reporter (can't remember his name) gave a speech and talked about many crimes and Valerie Percy was one of them. That was really the only thing I can remember that he said about her murder, about LE thinking it was personal and committed by someone she knew. I wish they would have left the article available longer!

Bargle
04-29-2010, 10:03 PM
Never mind, wrong article.

Luckymanuh
04-30-2010, 07:55 PM
Bargle,
I must comment on your quote..I LOVE IT!!

Luckymanuh
04-30-2010, 08:03 PM
Bargle,
As you know, I have always thought that Sharon was the intended victim. She was out that night, she could have become the murderer's stalk for whatever reason. Followed her home. Went to the back side of the house (faces Lake Michigan) stood on the beach and watched the light go on in Valerie's bedroom when Sharon returned the raincoat. So the murderer presumed that was Sharon's bedroom and came back in the early morning hours to kill her.
And as far as the Sharon Bubes attack, I feel it was the same man. The time of the morning was the same and breaking in the window.

Bargle
04-30-2010, 08:38 PM
Something I forgot to mention when I posted the suspect sketch from the Bubes assault. While Loraine said the sketch is similar, she did say in her description of the killer that he had bushy hair.
Maybe someone with more artistic skills than I have could alter it to show bushy hair.

I'm trying to get the newspaper articles organized in some sort of sensible order and I hope to be adding them over the next week.

Winward1
05-01-2010, 05:30 PM
The former Percy estate is being demolished at present. They have been tearing it down for over a week.

Bargle
05-01-2010, 07:33 PM
The former Percy estate is being demolished at present. They have been tearing it down for over a week.

Sorry to hear that. Any pictures?

Luckymanuh
05-02-2010, 09:55 AM
That is a shame. The older homes up in that area are so beautiful. They are big and not they tear down to make bigger.

liz b.
05-02-2010, 12:00 PM
The former Percy estate is being demolished at present. They have been tearing it down for over a week.


Thanks for that information,Winward. It's interesting. I would love to see a floorplan of the house from the time of this murder ; IMO it would show how unlikely it is that this was not a targeted killing of Valerie Percy. Because of the size of the house, and the many different bedrooms. All JMO

:+:MrTT:+:
05-02-2010, 04:05 PM
The former Percy estate is being demolished at present. They have been tearing it down for over a week.

How do you know this?
Is there a link?
Do you know by whom and why they have decided to tear it down now?

Bargle
05-03-2010, 05:39 PM
Some actual photos and another drawing showing the exterior of the house. I'm sorry, but I don't know of any pictures of the interior from that time period. There are some from where the home was up for sale a few years ago, but it looks like the interior, at least on the ground floor, has had remodeling. The patio area where the killer broke in now is now enclosed by screens and a roof.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/3312/percypropertylayout2a.th.jpg (http://img413.imageshack.us/i/percypropertylayout2a.jpg/)

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/3729/aerialviewofhouse.th.jpg (http://img688.imageshack.us/i/aerialviewofhouse.jpg/)

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/8135/exteriorofpercyhouse2.th.jpg (http://img249.imageshack.us/i/exteriorofpercyhouse2.jpg/)

Bargle
05-03-2010, 06:01 PM
An early article on the murder.

Sept.19.1966

The Time Recorder
Zanesville, Ohio
Monday
Sept. 19.1966

Near Chicago

CANDIDATE PERCY'S DAUGHTER IS SLAIN

Chicago (UPI)
A honey blonde twin daughter of Republican Senator candidate Charles Percy was fatally stabbed and beaten to death in the families lavish suburban home as the family slept nearby in the 17 room mansion.
The body of Valerie Percy,21, was stabbed and slashed to 10 times an autopsy showed and stab wounds penetrated her heart and spine, but she died of a skull fracture suffered from being beaten with a blunt instrument
police questioned a least a dozen persons about the slaying, sent Coast Guard scuba divers to probe Lake Michigan for a murder weapon and checked on inmates of a mental hospital a half mile north of the Percy home.
Virgil Nelson, superintendent of North Shore Hospital, told UPI "We have no patients missing or unaccounted for."
Police theorized that the killer might have been familiar with the house. A house to house canvass was being made in the neighborhood.
The body was found by the victim's stepmother in a second floor bedroom of the gray stone English manor house along the Lake Michigan Shore in suburban Kenilworth.
"The head blows did it," Cook County Coroner Andrew Toman said.
He speculated the head would might have been inflicted with something like a fire poker because of the triangular shape of the skull fracture.
Toman said small pieces of the girls skull had been pushed into her brain.
Toman said that the autopsy report listed the cause of death as "massive cranial and cerebral injuries on the left side of the head." He said first results indicated the victim had not been sexually molested.
Bruises were found on the girl's left foot and knees and abrasions on the right index finger, apparently stemming from her battle for life, Toman said. The shape and size of the abrasions led to speculation she might have hit her killer in the mouth.The stepmother, Mrs. Loraine Percy, told police she heard a moan from Valerie's bedroom about 5:00 am and entered to investigate. She said the intruder shined a flashlight in her face preventing her from obtaining a description of the killer. Mrs. Percy said she ran from the bedroom to trip the house's burglar alarm and alert her husband, who telephoned the Kenilworth police at 5:05 am. CDT.
While she was arousing Percy, the killer apparently fled, police said.
Prints of large bare feet, probably those of a man, were found leading to the Percy home, and from it along the family's private beach.
Valerie had graduated last June from Cornell University and had been organizing neighborhood groups to assist in her father's campaign.
Percy, 46 is a Horatio Alger industrialist, who rose from poverty to wealth and influence. His parents were on relief during the depression in the 1930s and he worked to help support the family while in high school. He attended the University of Chicago and studied economics under the man he hopes to unseat, Sen. Paul Douglas, D-ILL.

JBean
05-03-2010, 07:38 PM
bargle I took down the articles with my family name. The one article is the same one I already posted, based on the holes in it I think you must have gotten that from my sister? I will repost a copy of the other when as soon as I redact my family name and re scan.
thanks!

Bargle
05-03-2010, 09:24 PM
bargle I took down the articles with my family name. The one article is the same one I already posted, based on the holes in it I think you must have gotten that from my sister? I will repost a copy of the other when as soon as I redact my family name and re scan.
thanks!

Sure thing. Sorry. Yes, I probably picked the second one up from your sister at some point.

Winward1
05-03-2010, 09:49 PM
http://www.life.com/image/50572790

http://www.life.com/image/50572791

http://www.life.com/image/50572780

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/50675003.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=E41C9FE5C4AA0A14B5769D13BE66928D076482874AE96B37 DD2179BBCD3FDFAEB01E70F2B3269972

Luckymanuh
05-04-2010, 10:46 AM
Nice find Winward

Bargle
05-04-2010, 10:50 AM
OK, on to my own opinions and thoughts. Also I'll address some questions from earlier posts.

Why I don't think the murder was politcally motivated: Because of the breakin at JBean's family home the night before. The blue residue left behind on the screen in both cases is such an odd thing, that I think it highly unlikely to be 2 separate burglars. If the killing was supposed to be a warning to Charles Percy, why break into another home a mile away the night before? A hired assassin would have no reason to do that.

Why I don't think it was a member of the Mob pro break-in gang, Malchow, Hohimer or Evans: The method of breaking in. The pro break-in gang knew how cut out glass without making any noise. They also never worked barefoot as Valerie's killer did. It wouldn't surprise me to learn the killer had done a number of breakins, but I don't think he was part of any organized gang. More a lone thrill seeker. Maybe someone who had been a peeping tom in the past.

Why I don't think Loraine was involved: Again, the previous break-in from the night before. No reason for that from Loraine. Many don't like the way she behaved that night, but I don't see anything that points to her as a murderer.

Why didn't anyone hear Valerie being attacked/why didn't she scream? As far as we know, Valerie never got off the bed during the attack. The mattress would have absorbed the sounds of a struggle. I think one of the first things the killer did when he attacked Valerie was to put his hand over her mouth, preventing her from screaming. Also, once he had struck her in the head, with whatever that object was, she would have been unconscious or semi-conscious at best.

Were there signs of a sexual assault? When Loraine returned to Valerie's room after tripping the alarm, Valerie's nightdress was above her waist. Loraine pulled it back down. Whether the nightdress was pushed up by the killer or rode up during the struggle, we don't know.

Why didn't the dog bark? It was in a covered walkway between the house and the garage, well away from the part of the house where the attack took place. It was also reported that the dog only barked at people in uniform.

The Killer had to be familiar with the inside of the home: I don't think so. All he had to know is that Valerie's bedroom was above the room at the rear corner of the house. I think the killer watched the house for some time, either the night of the murder or some time previously. If the killer was peeping at the time Sharon returned the raincoat, it would have been very easy to know which room was hers.
That said, there were also many people connected with the campaign at the house at various times. That would give someone the layout of the ground floor and Valerie might well have casually mentioned which bedroom was hers.

Why was the killer barefoot? I've speculated that perhaps this was intended to be a rape or a rape murder. No shoes would serve the dual purpose of being quiet moving around the house and make it easy to remove his trousers for the rape. However, it wouldn't surprise me if it were for some other reason altogether.

What caused the injuries to Valerie's head? Newspaper reports describe it as possibly a ballpeen hammer or fireplace poker reground to a conical point. An odd choice of weapon. Instead, I think it might have been one of these, a Trench Knife.

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/2256/trenchknife3.th.jpg (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/trenchknife3.jpg/)

Notice that the nut that holds the grip on has a conical point, as do the spurs on the brass knuckle portion. I think it's also possible that there was a projection on the flashlight and the killer struck her with the light before switching to the knife for stabbing.

Whew, that's enough for now.

Astrogirl
05-04-2010, 12:34 PM
Bargle - What are your thoughts that Sharon may have been the intended victim and not Valerie?

Winward1
05-04-2010, 02:02 PM
It was not a pro. As a lawyer working a murder case down the road from Kenilworth (Biro murders, Winnetka, IL, 1990) said while working a case which had the same method of entry, no pro burglar cuts glass.

Pros know they can jimmy a window or door and get in in a tenth the time it takes to cut glass an not leave prints. They also know that cutting glass leads to what happened in this case. The glass fell and initially woke Mrs. Percy. The Biro murders were committed by a 19-year old local psychopath, not a pro burglar. Amateurs see "pro burglars" on TV and in movies cutting glass, which is the only place burglars who are supposed to be pros are seen cutting glass to get into something. The minute cops showed up with this method of entry, they knew it wasn't pros. Only some dopey, ignorant reporter could come up with something like that.

Mrs. Percy didn't commit the crime. This would have meant she would have killed a kid she'd spent years raising, who had been off in school for four years, and who was due to leave for grad school in two days. They were all very busy, and leading very purposeful lives. And Valerie was only home for a short summer stay.

The blue tin snips could have been the leading brand, and ubiquitous in the Chicago area if not nation. This is likely the case. Blue is not an unusual or rare color for such a tool. There is nothing definitive (like a ballistics test) that says the break in and attempted break in both involved the exact same tool. More likely than not they were completely separate events with different tools of the same color.

Bargle
05-04-2010, 02:34 PM
Bargle - What are your thoughts that Sharon may have been the intended victim and not Valerie?

I keep an open mind to the possibility. If the killer was watching the house from the rear, he may well have seen her returning the raincoat and thought it was her bedroom. If he followed her home from her date, he might well not be aware she even had a sister. Valerie was in bed watching TV when Sharon got home, so someone watching from the outside may not have been able to see Valerie and would have assumed that it was Sharon's room. Unless he's caught, I doubt we'll ever know for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Bargle
05-04-2010, 03:06 PM
The blue tin snips could have been the leading brand, and ubiquitous in the Chicago area if not nation. This is likely the case. Blue is not an unusual or rare color for such a tool. There is nothing definitively (like a ballistics test) that says the break in and attempted break in both involved the exact same tool. More likely than not they were completely separate events with different tools of the same color.

This is the first I can recall hearing that the screen cutting tool might have been tin snips. Of course, I've been involved in the case for over 7 years now. A lot of things have gotten talked about over the years and 3 message boards and I'm sure I don't remember all of them. Where does this come from?

Winward1
05-04-2010, 03:10 PM
Investigators, too, probably followed a theory that the wrong twin may have been attacked. But they apparently weren't any more successful locating someone that wanted to harm Sharon, either.

And if someone was really that mad at Sharon (this was a no-hold's-barred attack, whoever did it inflicted what would have been four fatal wounds, it was serious overkill) they likely would have attacked her at some point, later on. But no one ever did. I think it was someone who had a grudge with Valerie, period.

If he did follow Sharon home, he waited around something like five and a half or six house before coming in, seems kind of unlikely, but certainly possible.

Winward1
05-04-2010, 03:32 PM
During this investigation, or reporting of it, what was used to cut the screen may have indeed been referred to as a "screen cutting tool," and tin snips never mentioned.

However, I worked in the hand tool department of a hardware store for years and was never asked for, nor referred to, any tool as a "screen cutting tool," despite the fact that I sold screen, screen frames and screen supplies, as well as replaced screen on the job.

What's more, I just did a search for "screen cutting tool," and not one photo came up listed along with that term, and not one close match to that term came up when searching by text. Lastly, it is not a stretch to call tin snips a screen cutting tool as they most certainly can and have been used as such, and to purport them to have been made in blue (painted blue) or to imply that screen cut with a tool that left blue paint in its wake was, indeed, done so with tin snips.

That said, Bargle, you appear to be trying to split hairs where none exist. You have come up with some great pictures and thoughts. I will only say that I have been following this case since the mid 70s (some 25 years), and grew up two miles from the crime scene (which I have seen first hand, multiple times, and appear to have first reported its razing, here.)

Bargle
05-04-2010, 04:52 PM
During this investigation, or reporting of it, what was used to cut the screen may have indeed been referred to as a "screen cutting tool," and tin snips never mentioned.

However, I worked in the hand tool department of a hardware store for years and was never asked for, nor referred to, any tool as a "screen cutting tool," despite the fact that I sold screen, screen frames and screen supplies, as well as replaced screen on the job.

What's more, I just did a search for "screen cutting tool," and not one photo came up listed along with that term, and not one close match to that term came up when searching by text. Lastly, it is not a stretch to call tin snips a screen cutting tool, as they most certainly can and have been used as such, and to purport them to have been made in blue (painted blue) or to imply that screen cut with a tool that left blue paint in its wake was, indeed, done so with tin snips.

That said, Bargle, you appear to be trying to split hairs where none exist. You have come up with some great pictures and thoughts. I will only say that I have been following this case since the mid 70s (some 25 years), and grew up two miles from the crime scene (which I have seen first hand, multiple times, and appear to have first reported its razing, here.)

My use of 'screen cutting tool' was indeed drawn from reports on the attack. As someone who's been building things of one sort or a another since I was a kid, I'm familiar with many tools and I've never heard of a specific 'screen cutting tool' either. I think the use of that term in the reports was due to LE not having found the tool and there being nothing distinct about the cut screens other than the blue residue. I think the screens were most likely cut with the knife we know he was carrying.

I assure you I wasn't doubting you, just curious. I do greatly appreciate having someone local with a long term interest in the case as part of the discussion here. :)

Winward1
05-04-2010, 06:32 PM
Good points. Perhaps it should have just been reported as the object used to cut the screen. I'm sorry the place is gone. Yesterday, they were tearing up the foundation and literally using a wrecking ball to break up the pool, which I'm nearly certain was Percy's addition (the house was built in '23, the pool house, though a very good job was done to match the country stone exterior of the main house, had doors and windows that looked circa mid-50s, and the pool itself looked very much from that era.) I can tell you that place was BUILT. The backhoe that was tearing up the foundation was dropping chunks of it down that shook the entire grounds, which are substantial.

Bargle
05-04-2010, 06:53 PM
Very sorry to hear that. Are they tearing down the guest house as well?

Winward1
05-04-2010, 09:40 PM
From what I gather, what would have been referred to as the guest house (at least when the Percy family lived there) may have been long gone, or the first to go last week. It was basically between the main house and the tennis court. What I thought might be a caretaker's house actually was a completely separate property, with a separate address on an adjoining street. The more I learn about it, the more I am intrigued by the place. I do know the other house was very, very old, and local historians were sad to lose the Percy house, knowing it was the work of a notorious architect, but doubly sad to lose the smaller, separate house. As in so many cases it was offered to them if they could move it but even in Kenilworth no one could raise the funds. It's a dang shame.

Luckymanuh
05-05-2010, 10:26 AM
I can't believe they are tearing that beautiful house down. I took some picture of it a couple years back when I road up there to do some research. Glad I did.

Bargle
05-05-2010, 03:58 PM
I found this realty listing with pictures for it. Apparently from when it was for sale a few years or so back.
http://real-estate-for-sale.vht.com/Brochure/1076216/Brochure_40-Devonshire-Ln_Kenilworth-Illinois_60043.aspx

Click on the View Property Tour link for many interior pictures.

Luckymanuh
05-05-2010, 06:05 PM
I wonder if that guest bedroom was Valerie's? What beautiful house. Not my style but very elegant. Isn't the den where the murder broke into?

KLCD620
05-05-2010, 06:07 PM
I can't believe they are tearing that beautiful house down. I took some picture of it a couple years back when I road up there to do some research. Glad I did.

Yeah, that was beautiful looking house with 1960 style furniture's. Was Charles Percy left all furniture inside when his family moved out due to murder of Valerie?

Luckymanuh
05-05-2010, 07:41 PM
I don't know but I doubt it

Bargle
05-05-2010, 10:25 PM
I wonder if that guest bedroom was Valerie's? What beautiful house. Not my style but very elegant. Isn't the den where the murder broke into?

I thought the guest bedroom was Valerie's at first, but when I compared the inside and outside shots, I saw the windows didn't match. It must be one of the others.

I see the french door and patio where the killer entered at are now hidden by the family room.

I tried to visualize the layout of the ground floor from the pictures, but I couldn't do it. I think some of the rooms may have changed uses over the years. I wish someone had done an accurate floor plan drawing of the 2 floors. The killer's path drawings look to be only approximately right.

I was surprised by how steep the back yard is. The old newspaper photos don't show that well.

Winward1
05-06-2010, 12:10 AM
Great find. This doesn't resemble the original house in the least, save the garage, from the outside (not including the pool house, which Percy likely added.) I had been told in not so many words that it had been changed and saw it from the outside during the holidays. No wonder it didn't look like anything I'd seen before.

Winward1
05-06-2010, 12:16 AM
The so called "Green House" was a Sheridan Road address at one time. I don't think the properties were ever merged officially though past owners may have owned both. For local historians, this was the biggest loss (I guess they figured the main house had been altered too much.) I think I saw the original stairs at the north east side, when only the foundation was left. Yes, the slope down to the beach is a significant grade, and is that for most places along the lakefront down through Wilmette.

Winward1
05-06-2010, 12:25 AM
I wouldn't make any assumptions based on the windows. In the 50s and 60 the windows were leaded glass design, probably original. I have that from someone who spent much time there. It was a terrible move to take those out. It may be deceiving, but the way these photos appear the guest bedroom is not sized as the originals were, not close, at least from what I was told by someone who worked as well as socialized there.

Bargle
05-06-2010, 09:36 AM
I wouldn't make any assumptions based on the windows. In the 50s and 60 the windows were leaded glass design, probably original. I have that from someone who spent much time there. It was a terrible move to take those out. It may be deceiving, but the way these photos appear the guest bedroom is not sized as the originals were, not close, at least from what I was told by someone who worked as well as socialized there.

Oops, I see I wasn't clear about what I was comparing. I wasn't comparing the recent pictures with the ones from the crime period, I was comparing the recent pictures with each other. Here's some marked copies for comparison.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9242/mansionguestbedroom2.jpg
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2055/mansionsideyard2.jpg

Luckymanuh
05-06-2010, 10:25 AM
WOW It has been changed alot

Bargle
05-06-2010, 01:31 PM
Yes, it looks like they pushed out a portion of the roof to enlarge the bedrooms on this end and converted the patio into the family room.

Winward1
05-06-2010, 02:43 PM
And removed the tower, the most distinctive feature, and original north west facing front door and porch, replacing it with an entry way that looks to be southwest of the garage. The kitchen looks small for a place that big. I stood on those tiles on the lake side after the house had been taken down. My friend's wife remarked that they were slate. I thought so, too. They looked old but after all the renovations I'm not sure they were THE slate tiles referred to back in '66. But they certainly looked like they could have been. Good work on the comparisons.

Bargle
05-06-2010, 04:20 PM
Thank you. I thought the doorway in the recent pics didn't look right, but I wasn't certain since the only ones I had from back in the 60s were of poor quality. I thought the kitchen small as well. I was expecting something much larger.
Looks like subsequent owners made lots of changes, but I don't know that I'd call them improvements.

Winward1
05-07-2010, 01:54 PM
It was a huge renovation, and taking off the home's original facade and what they did to the back just make it look the the garage is the only original ('23) exterior remaining. I can't imagine anyone being able to get away with what was done to it in '69, today. It was less than 40 years old then but still, yikes. In the listing pictures it's interesting one really can't see the stairway. Described originally, it sounds like it was one of the more distinctive interior features.

Luckymanuh
05-08-2010, 12:11 AM
Winward do you have any idea who owns the property now and if they are building another house on it? What a dirty rotten shame to have such a wonder home be demolished.

Winward1
05-08-2010, 11:07 AM
Winward do you have any idea who owns the property now and if they are building another house on it? What a dirty rotten shame to have such a wonder home be demolished.

Again, it would appear the shame was the renovation done after the Percys sold it but long before it was demolished last week.

Generally, despite the fact that families in 50s and 60s tended to be quite larger than they are today (as in number of family members, not girth... nobody's bigger than kids today, lol) many sizable old places in the area have been torn down in the past 20 years, with even more massive places taking their place.

Word has it that the owners of the property will be building a huge place there, to live there, and that they have, believe it or not, twin girls.

Bargle
05-08-2010, 01:23 PM
Word has it that the owners of the property will be building a huge place there, to live there, and that they have, believe it or not, twin girls.

Cue the creepy music. :violin:

Winward1
05-11-2010, 01:51 PM
I have seen it noted here that a small, wet, cloth and leather glove was found in a shrub. And some accounts say it had blood on it and it has not been linked definitely to the murder.

The story a few years back said that all evidence from this crime in recent years was subject to new testing using the latest technology. I wonder if it ever linked or disproved these things played a role in the crime. As for the dog not barking, someone did say there were many strangers in this house often. I know that was the case at the time of the crime. Also, of course, it was a large house and the dog was on the other side of it, and on a different floor and perhaps locked behind at least one door from where the crime took place.

Winward1
05-11-2010, 07:58 PM
I'm interested in the serial killer theory. I'm aware of the earlier, unsuccessful attack, in Evanston. But other than that, were there really other attacks with the same MO?

Winward1
05-11-2010, 09:24 PM
Why didn't anyone hear Valerie being attacked...

If you believe Mrs. Percy, and I do, she actually did.

Winward1
05-11-2010, 09:31 PM
O
Were there signs of a sexual assault? When Loraine returned to Valerie's room after tripping the alarm, Valerie's nightdress was above her waist. Loraine pulled it back down. Whether the nightdress was pushed up by the killer or rode up during the struggle, we don't know.

Of course, everything's second hand in this case, filtered through the press. I can't remember ready ANY account of Valerie's clothing as it was when the family, or anyone else, first attended to her.

I thought, or assumed, that perhaps her clothing had been raised by the neighbor/doctor who first examined her, who had only a few minutes earlier been sleeping. He must have been as shocked as anyone, and may have left her clothing as it was during his examination? Just a guess. Also, didn't the first cop on the scene attend to her (I can't remember who got there first, the cop or the doctor.)

Winward1
05-11-2010, 09:34 PM
Something I forgot to mention when I posted the suspect sketch from the Bubes assault. While Loraine said the sketch is similar, she did say in her description of the killer that he had bushy hair.
Maybe someone with more artistic skills than I have could alter it to show bushy hair.

Just a thought, but if Valerie put up enough of a fight, or even if the guy when all out as it appears he did, perhaps any guy with enough hair would have had it described as bushy?

Bargle
05-12-2010, 10:56 AM
Hi Winward. It's going to be a few days or more before I have the time to answer your questions as they deserve. I just didn't want you to think I was ignoring them.

Winward1
05-12-2010, 11:04 AM
Thanks, Bargle.

liz b.
05-14-2010, 09:03 PM
So Valerie's mother described her daughter's attacker as a "bushy haired stranger " ? Really ?
All JMO

Luckymanuh
05-15-2010, 11:09 PM
Winward,
When I read your post about the new family having twin girls I got the chills!

TallCoolOne
05-17-2010, 08:18 AM
Winward,
When I read your post about the new family having twin girls I got the chills!Yeah, me too. That's enough to send shivers down my spine.....

watermelonlady
05-17-2010, 12:44 PM
I couldn't begin to imagine going back to that house to live after that. I wouldn't have slept a wink. I read somewhere that Valerie's dad described her stepmother and Sharon as very jittery in the house after that. Yeah, no kidding. :eek:

Luckymanuh
05-20-2010, 08:18 AM
I found this short article on Valerie's murder ran today. I wonder why?

http://www.pioneerlocal.com/evanston/news/2285150,north-shore-percy-052010-s2.article

Luckymanuh
05-20-2010, 08:54 AM
Another article....due to the fact the house is being torn down along with some great pix after Valerie's murder and during demo. What a shame such a beautiful house is just destroyed like that.

TallCoolOne
05-20-2010, 08:54 AM
I found this short article on Valerie's murder ran today. I wonder why?

http://www.pioneerlocal.com/evanston/news/2285150,north-shore-percy-052010-s2.articleHmmm..... that's odd, it isn't an anniversary, so that isn't what renewed the interest. Unless it somehow was brought back up because of the demolition of the home perhaps?

Thanks Luckymanuh for bringing that to our attention.

ETA: Whoops. I see we posted at the same time.

Winward1
05-20-2010, 04:45 PM
Stories in local papers related to real estate, especially expensive real estate, might be a draw for readers, especially in an economy where for the first time real estate prices have actually fallen, and in publications which are supported by, more than small part, real estate ads. I see they noted how much the property sold for. Anyway, right, it's not the anniversary, but it is when it was torn down (another case of history going under the wrecking ball) and it appears the property was notable for more than just the homicide. So, it's a news story with a features (history, real estate) story spin?

Bargle
05-22-2010, 08:39 PM
I'm interested in the serial killer theory. I'm aware of the earlier, unsuccessful attack, in Evanston. But other than that, were there really other attacks with the same MO?

I've been thinking about the case very much over the past week. I've taken a one month subscription to Newspaper Archive and read and saved many wire service stories about the case from the time.

I've decided to modify my opinion on it being a serial killer. In addition to that possibility, I'm going to say that he may have been a serial criminal of some other type, a peeper, a thrill burglar, a rapist, a clothing fetish thief, etc. Something with a sexual bent, but that hadn't excalated to murder before or after.

LE at the time checked out many other cases of knife attacks on women from around the country. Captured knife attackers David Mumbaugh, Michael Herrington and John Mulig were cleared of involvement in Valerie's slaying.

For an example of the type I lean towards it being, I'll cite the case of Joseph Baldi, the Queens Creeper that killed 4 young women and attacked several others in 1972. He attacked women in bedrooms at the rear of the homes. He had a bra fetish and usually slashed them. He had been in and out of mental health facilities for several years.

Bargle
05-22-2010, 08:49 PM
As for the dog not barking, someone did say there were many strangers in this house often. I know that was the case at the time of the crime. Also, of course, it was a large house and the dog was on the other side of it, and on a different floor and perhaps locked behind at least one door from where the crime took place.

Yes, the dog was in the covered walkway between the house and garage, not in the house itself.

Bargle
05-22-2010, 09:11 PM
Why didn't anyone hear Valerie being attacked/why didn't she scream?


If you believe Mrs. Percy, and I do, she actually did.

Good point. I think that many people who are new to the case (not you, Winward) wonder why no one else did. They read that Valerie struggled with her killer and she had defensive type injuries and I think they envision some sort of standup struggle. That isn't what happened. As far as we know, she never got off the bed, so the sounds were muffled.

Bargle
05-22-2010, 09:34 PM
Of course, everything's second hand in this case, filtered through the press. I can't remember ready ANY account of Valerie's clothing as it was when the family, or anyone else, first attended to her.

I thought, or assumed, that perhaps her clothing had been raised by the neighbor/doctor who first examined her, who had only a few minutes earlier been sleeping. He must have been as shocked as anyone, and may have left her clothing as it was during his examination? Just a guess. Also, didn't the first cop on the scene attend to her (I can't remember who got there first, the cop or the doctor.)

That came from the article in True Detective magazine as quoted by one of the posters back on the old C&J board. It was published in 1968. May not be accurate.
It was Dr. Hohf who was first on the scene. He pronounced Valerie dead.

ETA: I've just read a 1 year anniversary article that says a Sgt. Wolff and a fireman checked Valerie before Dr, Hohf arrived. I tend to think that article has it wrong, since Mrs. Hohf went outside when the alarm was set off, so the Hohfs were up immediatley after the attack, but who knows for sure?

Bargle
05-23-2010, 09:58 AM
Just a thought, but if Valerie put up enough of a fight, or even if the guy when all out as it appears he did, perhaps any guy with enough hair would have had it described as bushy?

Yes, a good possibility.

Here's a link to a newspaper article of Loraine's description at the inquest.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/978/sdescription2.th.jpg (http://img341.imageshack.us/i/sdescription2.jpg/)

Winward1
05-23-2010, 12:09 PM
Thanks, Bargle. A baffling case it is. It's hard to believe people driving by such forces stop, then of course they do get older and may become less impulsive. But still, it's not like Richard Ramirez was able to just one day quit.

The Evanston attack sounds similar. I understand why Mr. Percy was tired. He didn't go to sleep until after one, and the attack was as few as three and a half hours later.

Winward1
05-23-2010, 01:52 PM
By the way, did Richard Speck attack anyone else on any other occasion other than the infamous nurse stabbings? (I know he was apprehended before the Percy attack.)

Bargle
05-23-2010, 02:50 PM
By the way, did Richard Speck attack anyone else on any other occasion other than the infamous nurse stabbings? (I know he was apprehended before the Percy attack.)

He is suspected of other cases. See the links below. I've heard of the waitress murder before, but not the others.

http://www.bookrags.com/biography/richard-speck-cri/

http://www.prairieghosts.com/speck.html

Winward1
05-23-2010, 08:51 PM
It's amazing, how much this crime was on people's mind when the Percy attack occurred.

Bargle
05-27-2010, 12:01 PM
This month I decided to pay for a membership to Newspaper Archives for a month. There are many articles with Valerie's name in them, but many are duplicates. The great majority are AP Wire Service stories and are either exactly the same or close, but edited somewhat.

Most of the info is stuff we're already familiar with, but I have found some nuggets of new or corrected information.

Barred Percy Campaign workers. Article dated Sept. 21, 66: "Daley said Percy had rejected reports that he had barred several former campaign aides from the family home." I didn't think it was likely that any campaign workers were involved, but it's good to have them eliminated.

The green station wagon. Article dated Sept. 22, 66: "Police found the driver of a green station wagon which was observed near the Percy estate early Sunday. Daley said the investigators are satisfied with the driver's explanation that he was merely 'turning around' near the Percy home."

The sandy footprints. Article dated Sept. 23, 66: "The theory that the slayer came from the beach onto the patio before entering the home, has been virtually abandoned. No traces of sand have been reported found in the home." While re-reading old stuff on the murder, I'd been wondering if the sandy footprints were a false lead.

The boy on the el train. Article dated Sept. 28, 66: I'll synopsize this one. A girl acquaintance of Valerie saw her introducing a rough looking boy to Sharon on the el. The boy followed them for a short distance after they got off the train. The boy was found and cleared.

That's all for now.

Winward1
05-27-2010, 05:57 PM
Weird that the EL was mentioned as the other train, then the Chicago and North Western, ran a lot closer to the Percy's home than the EL. But apparently she was going down to the EL as it was closer to the campaign office on the other end, and could get rides a couple of miles back and forth on the north end. The EL is mentioned in the NY Times stories I believe.

The case is so baffling. There has always been a predisposition in the area to blame any crime on city dwellers coming up on the trains. And this was the case for several months in the late 80s regarding the triple homicide that happened just up the road from the Percy's old place. The cops there had theories about Columbian drug cartels and IRA hits until it was found some kid who lived a half mile away did it with no other motive than to kill.

My first theory is same as the Chicago cop who said it was a crime of passion. The flashlight makes me think it was someone checking to make sure they got who they were looking for. Second is a local stalker or psycho, attacking at random.

Bargle
05-27-2010, 08:18 PM
Unfortunately for the solving of this crime, there were a lot of side issues going on at the Percy home at the time, not to mention SKs were unlikely to considered or a crime recognized as such by LE of the day.

Well, I have to eat a bit of crow here. In looking through the old newspaper articles, it is clear the that the detectives in the early stages of the investigation kept an open mind as to the type of person that might have been the killer. I found several cases that had similar MOs where a suspect was cross checked as a possible for Valerie's murder as well. All were cleared by alibi or not matching the palm prints.

It wasn't until the 70s that LE seems to have gotten stuck on the Malchow, Evans, Hohimer break-in gang.

Winward1
05-27-2010, 10:41 PM
And one wonders how stuck they were on that. Sounds like maybe the writers at the SunTimes were the ones pushing that theory the most. I'm amazed they won a pulitzer for a series of articles that were not only on an unsolved crime but one that amounts to nothing more than hearsay of one jailbird about another.

Winward1
05-28-2010, 11:25 AM
Per the sandy footprints, there's no reason the attacker would have had to have come, or fled, via the beach. Devonshire is more a driveway than an actual "lane." I think it only served two properties back then, and now. It's just barely big enough to accommodate the tractor trailer dump trucks that have hauled away the old houses. One could have walked from the street through the lane and up the driveway to the back in a minute. I'm amazed anyone was out to have even out in the area to have seen the green station wagon turn around in the lane at 5 a.m. I can only imagine that vehicle itself was anything other than a newspaper deliver man, driving that vehicle at that hour on that day of the week.

watermelonlady
05-28-2010, 01:11 PM
I wonder why a house alarm didn't go off when the killer broke in? Mrs. Percy activated one on top of the house after she caught the killer in Valerie's room but I am surprised in that big of a house they didn't have an alarm set to go off if there was an intruder. :waitasec:

Winward1
05-28-2010, 02:32 PM
I don't know. But seeing as the town hadn't had a murder in its 75 year history, perhaps people felt pretty safe.

watermelonlady
05-28-2010, 04:41 PM
Yes, very good point.

Winward1
05-28-2010, 07:38 PM
I'd be interested in knowing just how sophisticated residential alarms were circa 1966.

Bargle
05-28-2010, 09:33 PM
I'd be interested in knowing just how sophisticated residential alarms were circa 1966.

This came up on one of the old C&J boards. I'll check this weekend and see if I have it saved. I want to think someone was able to show that they weren't very sophisticated in 1966, but I don't trust my memory alone on this.

JBean
05-29-2010, 03:42 AM
The home we lived in had an alarm but it was not very sophisticated. we actually had to flip a switch and it set off a loud blaring noise. The alarm would run until we turned it off by flipping the same switch.
Many of us iwere secured by a patrol service that would drive around and check the houses in the area every night several times a night. North Shore Patrol or something like that.

Bargle
05-29-2010, 07:21 AM
No luck on the alarm thread. I did find a post by one of JBean's sisters describing their alarm just like JBean's post above. The Percys also had the same night patrol service.

:+:MrTT:+:
05-29-2010, 01:57 PM
This month I decided to pay for a membership to Newspaper Archives for a month. There are many articles with Valerie's name in them, but many are duplicates. The great majority are AP Wire Service stories and are either exactly the same or close, but edited somewhat.

Most of the info is stuff we're already familiar with, but I have found some nuggets of new or corrected information.

Barred Percy Campaign workers. Article dated Sept. 21, 66: "Daley said Percy had rejected reports that he had barred several former campaign aides from the family home." I didn't think it was likely that any campaign workers were involved, but it's good to have them eliminated.

The green station wagon. Article dated Sept. 22, 66: "Police found the driver of a green station wagon which was observed near the Percy estate early Sunday. Daley said the investigators are satisfied with the driver's explanation that he was merely 'turning around' near the Percy home."

The sandy footprints. Article dated Sept. 23, 66: "The theory that the slayer came from the beach onto the patio before entering the home, has been virtually abandoned. No traces of sand have been reported found in the home." While re-reading old stuff on the murder, I'd been wondering if the sandy footprints were a false lead.

The boy on the el train. Article dated Sept. 28, 66: I'll synopsize this one. A girl acquaintance of Valerie saw her introducing a rough looking boy to Sharon on the el. The boy followed them for a short distance after they got off the train. The boy was found and cleared.


That's all for now.







http://media1.pioneerlocal.com/multimedia/wip-g4-052010-016_pp_feed_20100519_00_27_59_12728-289-400.imageContent
quote from above^
The sandy footprints. Article dated Sept. 23, 66: "The theory that the slayer came from the beach onto the patio before entering the home, has been virtually abandoned. No traces of sand have been reported found in the home." While re-reading old stuff on the murder, I'd been wondering if the sandy footprints were a false lead....End of quote.


Perhaps if it is true, about the sand......they could have carried with them shoes, or there may had been a pair on the porch towards the entrance that were there already, or ones that were brought along. I have not seen any photos from LE, that showed the sand on the porch or footprints of sand in the grass...if htere was, i wonder how far they followed the prints onto the sand on the beach, or was there none to follow, for the tracks were removed going back the same way?
I don't know.
http://media1.pioneerlocal.com/multimedia/wip-g4-052010-021_pp_feed_20100519_00_25_21_12694-290-400.imageContent
That house had so much energy from its history.
I would have liked to had been able to
walk into the home and listen to the quietness.

Winward1
05-29-2010, 02:29 PM
I don't know why anyone would have had to or wanted to enter or leave via the beach. At five a.m. on a Sunday morning before dawn, there would be hardly anyone out to witness an escape. I believe I read somewhere that the cop came from the police station, and wasn't out on patrol. I wonder if they had anyone out on patrol at that time on that day.

Bargle
05-29-2010, 10:56 PM
Per the sandy footprints, there's no reason the attacker would have had to have come, or fled, via the beach. Devonshire is more a driveway than an actual "lane." I think it only served two properties back then, and now. It's just barely big enough to accommodate the tractor trailer dump trucks that have hauled away the old houses. One could have walked from the street through the lane and up the driveway to the back in a minute. I'm amazed anyone was out to have even out in the area to have seen the green station wagon turn around in the lane at 5 a.m. I can only imagine that vehicle itself was anything other than a newspaper deliver man, driving that vehicle at that hour on that day of the week.

The beach approach certainly had people scratching their heads on the old C&J boards. Devonshire makes for a much more sensible approach to the house and escape route.

It was a cab driver that saw the green station wagon.

:+:MrTT:+:
05-30-2010, 12:20 AM
n 1966, Percy's second attempt, a run for senator from Illinois, succeeded when he upset incumbent Democratic senator Paul Douglas (a former professor of Percy's at the University of Chicago) with 56% of the vote. During that campaign, Percy's daughter Valerie was murdered at the family home in mysterious circumstances, apparently by an intruder, and campaigning was suspended for two weeks. Valerie Percy's murder has never been solved, despite a long investigation.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_H._Percy#cite_note-3) The incident caused CBS to postpone, and eventually cancel, an airing of the Alfred Hitchcock film Psycho (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycho_%281960_film%29).

The above from this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_H._Percy

His second attempt, that succeeded occurred in November 66 against the democrat correct? Thats when they voted for the US senate i am assuming. And the crime occcured on Sept 16 same year, couple of months or so before election. his first attempt failed.
It seems after the murder during the campaign, he got a boost in support from the public whom felt sympathy for him and his family.

I am assuming that over the years, a theory came about that perhaps his daughter was murdered so soon towards an election, to bring him more press, recognition and gain sympathy votes that would have made him more popular as in name identity at the polls that he would win his second time around, in fact he did go on and win the US senate seat that fall.

Does anyone have any knowledge this was discussed over the years?

And is it just me, or does it seem that even to this day, to even to think about the step mother having any involvement or knowledge in this case etc, is just taboo!
You can think it, but don't say it, or post about it.
Does anyone else get that feeling about discussing the stepmother?
Would there be anything in her past, that would/could cause her to experi9ence some kind of homicidal emotion, and kill her stepdaughter, so her husband could gain some support in votes from sympathy voters to possibly win the fall US senate seat, which he did end up winning.

Has this been discussed.

Hm, or perhaps, one was hoping, that the killing would STOP, his chances of wining?
But it had the opposite effect?

I Do agree it was personal, and not some random crime, or a bf gf thing. The more i read about the time 66 and this family, and its connections, and all that was going on at the time........It seems more political driven then anything else. ..Especially when i read Nixon was coming to town, to campaign for him.
Around 3 years or so after the presidents assassination.
Being in Chicago.

And this is interesting.

Percy is a christian scientist.
Percy is a Christian Scientist
Would like to know more, about his connection to this religion in the area at the time.
Christian Science addresses the theological problem of evil by teaching that evil is unreal and an illusion...


ALL MOO AND SPECULATION ON MY PART

Winward1
05-30-2010, 10:37 AM
I know about the sympathy vote theory. And I know there are some who think Percy may actually have been ahead in the polls before the murder. A check of newspaper stories might reveal whether that's true, but all of it, including him winning by sympathy vote, is conjecture.

Close friends who know the family for years have stated they have no doubt that Mrs. Percy had nothing to do with it. Yes, she was Val's stepmother, but why would she attack a stepchild who was 21, who had been out of state at college for four years and was leaving again in two days to attend grad school out of state? It's possible but not plausible.

Rumor in the area suspected Mrs. Percy, but there's a huge bias there to suspect anyone other than other residents of the area ever doing anything bad, even things like bike theft. Anything bad that happens simply could never have been committed by an area resident who was a neighbor, etc. It has to be an outsider or, in this case, a family member. Theories like this make area residents beyond reproach.

Though history has shown that psychopaths have been raised on the North Shore and murdered others without reason. It's rare, but it's happened.

Bargle
05-30-2010, 08:41 PM
The newspaper stories I've been reading have Percy and his opponent about equal before the murder.

Mrs. Percy has been suspected for years by some. I just don't see anything to support it. I've certainly seen no taboo against it. It was discussed on the old C&J boards.
As Winward points out above, Valerie is about to leave for graduate school and would likely not be a regular household member again, effectively taking her out of Loraine's daily life. And what of the previous night's break-in at the doctor's? Why would Loraine have anything to do with that?

Bargle
05-30-2010, 08:51 PM
Since I'm the sort of the unofficial organizer here on this case, let me run down the various, most common theories I've seen. They're in no particular order.

Loraine did it.

Political rivals did it as warning/threat to Percy.

Done by a member of the pro break-in gang. Malchow, Evans or Hohimer. A burglary gone wrong.

Male who was spurned by Valerie or Sharon.

Campaign worker that had grudge against Charles or the girls.

Serial criminal of some sort. Possibly the same man that attacked Sharon Bubes.

MaryLiz
05-30-2010, 10:16 PM
Since I'm the sort of the unofficial organizer here on this case, let me run down the various, most common theories I've seen. They're in no particular order.

Loraine did it.

Political rivals did it as warning/threat to Percy.

Done by a member of the pro break-in gang. Malchow, Evans or Hohimer. A burglary gone wrong.

Male who was spurned by Valerie or Sharon.

Campaign worker that had grudge against Charles or the girls.

Serial criminal of some sort. Possibly the same man that attacked Sharon Bubes.

I haven't posted on this thread for a while, but I've been keeping up with it.

I had slight suspicions about the guy on the EL, and although he was cleared, I still have a lingering feeling about him. But I guess when you synopsize everything as above, I would have to agree that the very last one, the serial criminal/Sharon Bubes attacker, makes the most sense. I never suspected Loraine, and only briefly considered a disgruntled campaign worker. And I really can't go with a burglary gone wrong scenario because it makes no sense to me that nothing was taken, and that someone would just enter the house and kill Valerie. Of course, if Loraine hadn't been awakened, who knows if another member of the household might have been attacked. But Valerie's murder seems so similar to the Evanston crime, that I can't help but think it's tied to that one somehow.

Thanks for continuing to organize the articles and statistics in this case, Bargle. It really helps to see everything laid out like that.

Bargle
05-31-2010, 10:17 AM
You're welcome, Cambria.

Here's an article I forgot to add earlier in the thread. It mentions a youth on a motorcycle I don't recall hearing of before. I haven't found any later mention of him, so I don't know if he was cleared or what.

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/8422/sportscarmotorcyclist3.th.jpg (http://img535.imageshack.us/i/sportscarmotorcyclist3.jpg/)

:+:MrTT:+:
05-31-2010, 12:52 PM
If we want to look at a new angle all together, If i had to pick one to start again, i would look at his relationship with the church connection.


Church of Christ, Scientist
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/Marybaker.jpg/220px-Marybaker.jpghttp://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/valerie_percy/1-1-Valerie-Percy.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c6/Ccseal.PNG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Christ,_Scientist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Science
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil
The Christian Science position on the nature of evil may be stated as follows: "Evil is a negation, because it is the absence of truth. It is nothing, because it is the absence of something. It is unreal, because it presupposes the absence of God, the omnipotent and omnipresent. Every mortal must learn that there is neither power nor reality in evil".[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Science#cite_note-S.26Hp186-16) This statement should not be taken as meaning that Christian Scientists ignore the belief of evil and its effects, but they do not see evil as either an aspect of God, or as a real power separate from God. Evil is not fundamentally "real" because it is not part of God's being or his creation. But it may appear to be real as a mistaken concept of God and man, and consequently must be "seen through" rather than ignored. Christian Scientists believe God and his creation to be wholly and only good.

Political figures



Nancy Witcher Astor In Sykes's Nancy the life of Lady Astor (Academy Chicago, 1984), and her own letters Nancy Astor’s Canadian Correspondence, 1912-1962 it mentions how much she promoted the religion. The effect it had on her election campaigns and her political views is mentioned in Karen J Musolf's From Plymouth to Parliament (St. Martin's Press (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Martin%27s_Press), 1999)
Fred B. Balzar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_B._Balzar)-[1] (http://politicalgraveyard.com/group/christian-scientist.html)
Owen Brewster-[2] (http://politicalgraveyard.com/group/christian-scientist.html)[3] (http://www.abbott-library.com/readobit.php?obitid=1240)
Ralph Lawrence Carr-[4] (http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:YZjsqCKYCr4J:www.nga.org/governors/1,1169,C_GOVERNOR_INFO%255ED_680,00.html+%22Ralph+ Lawrence+Carr%22+%22Christian+Scientist%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1)
Thomas M. Davis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_M._Davis)-[5] (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=400098)[6] (http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:ms1uYTSFI5wJ:www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101961104-134972,00.html+%22thomas+davis%22+%22christian+sci entist%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=18)
David Dreier-[7] (http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=H0511103)
John Ehrlichman - Watergate Figure[8] (http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/coldwar/interviews/episode-16/ehrlichman1.html)
Bob Goodlatte-[9] (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/elections/2004/candidates/22276/)
H.R. Haldeman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.R._Haldeman)-Watergate figure described as, in those days, A Christian Scientist who neither smokes nor drinks.Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/watergate/articles/050173-3.htm)
Philip Kerr, 11th Marquess of Lothian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Kerr,_11th_Marquess_of_Lothian)-His death in 1940, which was when he was the British Ambassador to the United States of America, gained some attention due to his faith.Time Magazine obituary (http://time-proxy.yaga.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,765060,00.html)
Egil Krogh - Watergate FigureThe Atlantic Online (http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/82may/hershwh3.htm)
Scott McCallum-Milwaukee Sentinel mentioned how Wisconsin's Christian Scientists "finally got their prayers answered" by his election.[10] (http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2001/feb/16/christian_sciences_democratic/)
Henry Paulson-74th United States Secretary of the Treasury[11] (http://www.pbs.org/wsw/news/fortunearticle_20031229_01.html)[12] (http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Y8f-PLqCbb4J:instruction.bus.wisc.edu/lkuzuhara/mhr300/Goldman%2520Sachs%2520-%2520Inside%2520the%2520Money%2520Machine.doc+%22H ank+Paulson%22+%22Christian+Scientist%22+-wikipedia&hl=en)[13] (http://www.forbes.com/home/business/2006/05/30/wall-street-treasury-paulson-cx_lm_0531paulson.html)
Charles H. Percy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_H._Percy)-[14] (http://www.crimelibrary.com/features/fea_printPage.asp?sect=7&curPage=&thisFile=/notorious_murders/famous/valerie_percy/8.html)
Lamar S. Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamar_S._Smith)-Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/elections/2004/candidates/22708/)
Stansfield Turner - Admiral and former CIA Director[15] (http://archives.cjr.org/year/92/5/godssake.asp)
William Hedgcock Webster-In the Salon article and NNDB (http://www.nndb.com/people/961/000044829/).
John D. Works (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Works)-An early, possibly the earliest, example of a Christian Scientist in the US Senate.[16] (http://www.adherents.com/largecom/fam_chrsci.html)[17] (http://politicalgraveyard.com/group/christian-scientist.html)

Heres a link to an old Times Magazine from 1978, November talking about his re election campaign.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,948264,00.html?promoid=googlep

Heres a link to a 15 chapter discussion on the case from Tru TV. I believe it has been posted before, but wanted to repost with this responce
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/valerie_percy/index.html

Winward1
05-31-2010, 02:32 PM
Loraine did it.

Political rivals did it as warning/threat to Percy.

Done by a member of the pro break-in gang. Malchow, Evans or Hohimer. A burglary gone wrong.

Male who was spurned by Valerie or Sharon.

Campaign worker that had grudge against Charles or the girls.

Serial criminal of some sort. Possibly the same man that attacked Sharon Bubes.

1. The first one supposes that, despite the implausibility of reasons already stated, Mrs. Percy was able to muster up the power to pull off such an attack (she isn't a very big person), fabricate the evidence, and do all of the above without the knowledge of the family or with their co-operation (again, not very plausible) and convince investigators of a rather unusual story (seeing the attacker, his flashlight, etc.)

2. highly unusual and (has there been one verified case of a political rival killing another? Disrupting their campaigns? Yes. Bugging their offices? Yes. But killing?) it backfired.

3. Cops didn't think so. Doesn't fit crime of passion motive.

4. I would expand this one to include a male who thought he was spurned by one of them.

5. It's possible, sure.

6. The big question here is who else did he kill?

7. I don't know about the religious angle. Percy is a Christian Scientist but he wasn't in church often. He was always working. I'm certain on that point.

JoeFromLB
05-31-2010, 05:22 PM
Interesting site develops the theory that Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) may have killed her, as well as Sharon Bubes:

http://unazod.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=90&start=0

I'm not sure if this has already been discussed here.

:+:MrTT:+:
05-31-2010, 07:29 PM
quote...Recently, comeuppance for Valerie Percy's killer has been advocated by an active Internet discussion group led by a police lieutenant from Maryville, Tenn. Group members have collected a vast archive of material about the crime, including newspaper clips, biographies and witness lists...End of quote.

Anyone know if and where i can find this site?
Its from the following link.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/valerie_percy/2.html

Bargle
05-31-2010, 10:35 PM
quote...Recently, comeuppance for Valerie Percy's killer has been advocated by an active Internet discussion group led by a police lieutenant from Maryville, Tenn. Group members have collected a vast archive of material about the crime, including newspaper clips, biographies and witness lists...End of quote.

Anyone know if and where i can find this site?
Its from the following link.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/valerie_percy/2.html

That was part of the original Crime & Justice board. When the EZboard system crashed, a separate Crime & Justice, independently hosted, was started by an admin at the first C&J. The Maryville police Lt., a little over 5 years ago, started a separate one called True Crimes and Beyond. Link below. The link for Valerie's specific case is about halfway down. I think you have to register first before you can view the threads.
http://forums.delphiforums.com/coldcases/

Both the C&J boards are now gone.

Gunner
06-01-2010, 05:29 AM
Something that jumps out at me is the ferocity of the attack on Valerie, 1 to 4 blows BFT - 10 to 14 stab wounds. It would appear to be a crime of rage. There was a mention of a bayonet found in the lake. In my Army days we were taught to use the butt of the bayonet as well as the blade and this could explain the two wound types.

Winward1
06-01-2010, 03:51 PM
I thought press accounts said the bayonet was ruled out not long after it was found.

:+:MrTT:+:
06-01-2010, 07:50 PM
http://www.memorystore.org.uk/_images/gadgetspics/largepopup/trvliron1966.jpg
http://www.consumerreports.org/content/Home/Gallery/Photos/196701.jpg

I have not seen the original autopsy report, and i dont know anything about jewerly tools, so i am just speculating on the size. They said she was hit with something that left a triangle shape.
If anyone here knows for sure, has seen the autopsy report etc, can you tell me if the above pictures are to big to had been the object used.
They are from 1966 or so. thanks in advance for your answer.

:+:MrTT:+:
06-01-2010, 07:53 PM
That was part of the original Crime & Justice board. When the EZboard system crashed, a separate Crime & Justice, independently hosted, was started by an admin at the first C&J. The Maryville police Lt., a little over 5 years ago, started a separate one called True Crimes and Beyond. Link below. The link for Valerie's specific case is about halfway down. I think you have to register first before you can view the threads.
http://forums.delphiforums.com/coldcases/

Both the C&J boards are now gone.

thank you very much, i did find that, and you were correct in having to sign up. I rather not do that now, for certain reasons.......
But thank-you very much for sending me into the right direction.

Bargle
06-01-2010, 08:47 PM
They couldn't find any evidence on the bayonet to link it to the murder.

Quoting a 1 year anniversary article by Jim Disch. "A bayonet found by skin divers in Lake Michigan near the Percy home is probably not the murder weapon. Although the weapon hasn't been ruled out of the case Eggert said "the blade does not match the size of the wounds. And we have no other possible murder weapon."

On the glove, chemical tests failed to establish whether woolen fibers found on her bed matched the glove. Whatever that means.

Bargle
06-01-2010, 08:50 PM
thank you very much, i did find that, and you were correct in having to sign up. I rather not do that now, for certain reasons.......
But thank-you very much for sending me into the right direction.

You're quite welcome.

Bargle
06-01-2010, 09:25 PM
In my looking over articles from the Newspaper Archive, I've found another description of the bludgeon weapon, 'arrow shaped'. Taken in conjunction with the earlier reground ball peen hammer description, I take this to mean it was shaped like what's called a field point. Here's a couple of links if you aren't familiar with them.
http://www.crossbowextreme.com/image_manager/attributes/image/image_1/1095579095_4238620714.jpg

http://www.performancearchery.co.za/images/fieldpoint.jpg

I've also found an article where they were looking for a tool called a tie marking hammer, used by railroad workers. I found only one picture of one.
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,896140

Usually, I have no interest in autopsy photos, but this is one case where I'd like to see the ones of the head wounds just to see what they looked like. The differing descriptions we've heard of the wound's shape and/or the object that caused them is confusing. If they were made by something with a conical point, then my idea of the weapon possibly being a trench knife remains a good one. However, if the weapon was triangular in shape, then that very likely rules out a trench knife and we need to look at other things. It's very aggravating.

Bargle
06-01-2010, 09:33 PM
I have not seen the original autopsy report, and i dont know anything about jewerly tools, so i am just speculating on the size. They said she was hit with something that left a triangle shape.
If anyone here knows for sure, has seen the autopsy report etc, can you tell me if the above pictures are to big to had been the object used.
They are from 1966 or so. thanks in advance for your answer.

As far as I know, the autopsy report hasn't been released. We have conflicting descriptions of the wounds. I don't recall seeing anything about the overall size of the wounds, so we don't really know how big it was, just that it came to some sort of a point. While a clothes iron could make a triangular wound, it strikes me as such an odd weapon in this situation, that I think it's unlikely.

Winward1
06-02-2010, 12:53 AM
Some reports seemed all but certain the glove was, in a very OJ way, left at the scene (somewhere on the property) by the attacker. But I don't remember reading that it was conclusively linked to the crime (never read anything saying the moisture on it when it was found actually was human blood, etc.) including when everything was re-tested over the last ten years or so.

Winward1
06-02-2010, 09:30 PM
Speaking of unsolved murders in the area, it seems a woman just a few miles south, in Wilmette, was murdered in her house some 70 years or so earlier and, like the Percy case, the case was never solved and some people (evidently not those who actually knew the family) thought the husband did it. But the house were it happened was very near the family home of Dr. HH Holmes, prolific serial killer of "Devil in the White City," book fame.

http://www.wilmette.lib.il.us/reference/record_display_public.php?id=116

Winward1
06-04-2010, 12:42 PM
Well, investigators assigned to the case still believe there's someone out there with information on who killed Valerie:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/northnorthwest/ct-x-n-percy-mansion-0604-20100604,0,6468340.story

Bargle
06-04-2010, 08:51 PM
Another small tidbit of information. The Percys held an open house for the neighbors every Sunday. That means lots of non-family people other than campaign workers were familiar with the interior layout. I notice Sgt. Miller says they do read the forums. If we come up with something useful, it will be looked at it seems. That's good.

Winward1
06-05-2010, 12:56 AM
Indeed. Well, it's had a lot of publicity lately, locally, for what it's worth.

Bargle
06-06-2010, 08:06 PM
At the end of this post will be a thumbnail link to one of the articles about the break-in at JBean's family home. I've blacked out all the personal names other than the Percys and investigators.

Over the years I've been keeping up with this case, I've seen much speculation about the reason for the large number of wounds from the attack. It's usually put down to the killer having some sort of personal anger at Valerie. While doing the cleanup and blacking out of the article below, I thought of another possible reason.
First, some background from the article.
In addition to the break-ins at the Percy and JBean homes, there were also another break-in at the house next door to Jbean's and an attempted break-in at the house across the road.
So, before the break-in at the Percys, this was how his record stood.
His 1st attempted break-in wasn't successful.
His 2nd break-in ended with the him being scared off by the private patrol.
His 3rd break-in was disrupted by Jbean's father waking up and hearing him.

Just to be clear, I'm entering into speculation from this point.
First, I think the Percy break-in was intended to be a rape or rape & murder.
The killer breaks in and goes up to Valerie's room. He's carrying his flashlight and trench knife. I think he was using a flashlight with a shoulder strap, so he had both hands free. Entering Valerie's room, he goes quickly to her side of the beds, clamps a hand over her mouth to keep her from screaming. He holds the knife either to her throat or in front of her face. Possibly he tells her to keep quiet and she won't get hurt.
Now remember, at this point, he's had 3 break-ins in a row go wrong. Here we are on number 4 and he's got his victim in bed at knife point, no other family/household members awake, dog hasn't barked. Everything seems to going as he wants. He's expecting her to be quiescent. Then what happens?
Valerie doesn't just lie there and let herself be assaulted. She strikes out with her hands and legs. Hard enough to leave marks from her efforts. She hits him in the mouth.
At this point he snaps. Here's his 4th break-in going wrong as well. He becomes enraged and beats her in the head, then switches to stabbing her. Over and over. Then he plays the light over her body, to see what the effects of his attack are. Valerie's moan has brought Loraine to the bedroom door. We know what happens from here on.

Anyway, that's my idea. He wasn't that angry at Valerie personally, but the combination of frustration of having yet another break-in go wrong and Valerie striking him painfully caused him to lose it and go into a brief frenzy.

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9619/bluemarksretouched2.th.jpg (http://img265.imageshack.us/i/bluemarksretouched2.jpg/)

Luckymanuh
06-06-2010, 10:13 PM
I only knew of 2 of the breaks in's prior to Valerie's murder. I think he got mad that she woke up while he was in the room.

Bargle
06-06-2010, 10:44 PM
I only knew of 2 of the breaks in's prior to Valerie's murder. I think he got mad that she woke up while he was in the room.

Also possible. We don't know why he originally broke in. That's one of the things that has made this so hard to solve. Might be something we've never considered.

Winward1
06-07-2010, 11:36 AM
Wow, that was a long time ago. Does JBean still have family at the residence? Interesting theories, Bargle. Do you think he kept at it until he succeeded?

Bargle
06-07-2010, 08:10 PM
Wow, that was a long time ago. Does JBean still have family at the residence? Interesting theories, Bargle. Do you think he kept at it until he succeeded?

I tend to think so, but it's not impossible he quit or switched to some other sort of crime. It's also possible that he snapped mentally after Valerie's murder and was put away. There's just too many possibilities.

Winward1
06-07-2010, 09:12 PM
I have no intention of checking those residences out. But I'm curious as to where they are. I lived in Winnetka for four years in the late 70s and am just curious. I suspect they're in the east side of town?

Bargle
06-07-2010, 09:26 PM
I have no intention of checking those residences out. But I'm curious as to where they are. I lived in Winnetka for four years in the late 70s and am just curious. I suspect they're in the east side of town?

The stories say they were about a mile from the Percy home, if that tells you anything. I think Jbean will have to answer this one.

Winward1
06-08-2010, 01:26 AM
I can't speak for Jbean, but my family moved to the area the month before the murder and the last family that was on our block then has moved out. So, with few exceptions would I imagine any of the property owners from those days are not still there. If this is the case for Jbean and such, I'd love to know the addresses.

Realpolice63
06-09-2010, 09:53 PM
I was a detective assigned to Area #1 Homicide in the early 70s. There was a rumor floating around that at the time of Valerie Percy's murder the Chicago Police Department sent a couple of their top homicide detectives to assist the locals with their investigation. It was rumored that they came to the conclusion that it would have been impossible for an outsider to have committed the crime due to the alarms and the family dogs that had free access to the entire home. It was the opinion of the Chicago detectives that the stepmother was the most likely suspect. The detectives were told thanks but no thanks and were sent back to Chicago. It was also rumored that the stepmother had severe mental issues. I would think that this could be checked out. This case has intrigued me since it happened. I hope that it will be solved before I die.

Winward1
06-09-2010, 10:22 PM
Nice to have you chiming in, Realpolice63.

Yes, we've heard those rumors before, then, and thus the apparently well documented and very similar other break-ins in the area in the days before the homicide would be inexplicable.

As are the reports that the dog, and it was one dog, that was locked up at the opposite end of the house. Then there's the Chicago homicide investigator who said there was no crime scene whatsoever by the time the Chicago cops arrived. From what I've heard, from people who have known Mrs. Percy for more than half a century, the step-mom rumors are hogwash.

So, about those other break-ins...

JBean
06-09-2010, 10:28 PM
My old house is a bed and breakfast now LOL. the people that bought it from my folks still own it. It was in an unincorporated area on the border of Kenilworth and Winnetka on high Ridge. I was born in Evanston, but we moved to Winnetka in about 1964 ish We lived in that house until the early 79-80 or so.

delaney
06-10-2010, 12:09 AM
I was a detective assigned to Area #1 Homicide in the early 70s. There was a rumor floating around that at the time of Valerie Percy's murder the Chicago Police Department sent a couple of their top homicide detectives to assist the locals with their investigation. It was rumored that they came to the conclusion that it would have been impossible for an outsider to have committed the crime due to the alarms and the family dogs that had free access to the entire home. It was the opinion of the Chicago detectives that the stepmother was the most likely suspect. The detectives were told thanks but no thanks and were sent back to Chicago. It was also rumored that the stepmother had severe mental issues. I would think that this could be checked out. This case has intrigued me since it happened. I hope that it will be solved before I die.


That is what I heard also, my brother was a skokie cop back in the 70's,
it was his personal opinion also. Lots of talk about the step-mother and her mental state, that it was an inside job, rage killing. moo

Winward1
06-10-2010, 11:50 AM
I can understand the rumors among police that would blame the step mom, or some sort of insider theory that would allow that the case was unsolvable.

But we all know that if the case is unsolvable it's likely because the local cops in this case could not have done a worse job. They completely failed to secure the crime scene. They had every reason to spread rumors in an effort to take the spotlight off of them, what they failed to do, work that was of embarrassingly poor quality. What's funny is people still talk about the step mom and not the performance or lackthereof by the police. (Ironically, one exception is a Chicago police investigator who years later noted the handling of the case in its initial hours was shockingly bad.) Had what had gone on re: the crime scene been in the news reports in the wake of the murder, there would have been hell to pay and it would have been a major scandal in itself; how could one of the wealthiest communities in the country, and a property which had recently hosted Hollywood stars and a former Vice President, be the location of such shoddy police work? The blue wall circled the wagons and took care of #1, Mrs. Percy be damned.

So where can it go from there? "Oh yeah, the step mom must have done it!" Right. As far as the dog not hearing an intruder (a not so subtle way of suggesting an insider did it); years later, just up the road from the Percy's old place, a local kid broke into a town house and gunned down two people with a high-caliber handgun. A TOWN HOUSE in a busy area of town with neighbors on either side, yet no one reported hearing anything and he was able to escape, and was not caught for months while cops with virtually no homicide experience floated theories that it was an IRA hit, or a Columbian drug cartel action, anything but a local kid on a rampage, a crime investigators should be able to solve. So, amazing stuff happens and no one hears. It happened twice in the area. It doesn't mean a certain person did it. It just means that no one (other than Mrs. Percy), and including the dog, heard anything.

In that case up the road, there was no motive other than to kill. So, the whole Mrs. Percy did it and it couldn't have happened any other way line of thinking is ludicrous. In the Winnetka crime, the killer entered the house the same way the Percy's house was broken into, a cut screen and glass pane. Random, or not so random, acts of violence happen. Trying to solve them is a challenge. Inexperienced cops who spread rumors with nothing more behind them than the rest of the theories here were only helping themselves.

Bargle
06-10-2010, 08:19 PM
At the end of this post will be a thumbnail link to one of the articles about the break-in at JBean's family home. I've blacked out all the personal names other than the Percys and investigators.

Over the years I've been keeping up with this case, I've seen much speculation about the reason for the large number of wounds from the attack. It's usually put down to the killer having some sort of personal anger at Valerie. While doing the cleanup and blacking out of the article below, I thought of another possible reason.
First, some background from the article.
In addition to the break-ins at the Percy and JBean homes, there were also another break-in at the house next door to Jbean's and an attempted break-in at the house across the road.
So, before the break-in at the Percys, this was how his record stood.
His 1st attempted break-in wasn't successful.
His 2nd break-in ended with the him being scared off by the private patrol.
His 3rd break-in was disrupted by Jbean's father waking up and hearing him.

Just to be clear, I'm entering into speculation from this point.
First, I think the Percy break-in was intended to be a rape or rape & murder.
The killer breaks in and goes up to Valerie's room. He's carrying his flashlight and trench knife. I think he was using a flashlight with a shoulder strap, so he had both hands free. Entering Valerie's room, he goes quickly to her side of the beds, clamps a hand over her mouth to keep her from screaming. He holds the knife either to her throat or in front of her face. Possibly he tells her to keep quiet and she won't get hurt.
Now remember, at this point, he's had 3 break-ins in a row go wrong. Here we are on number 4 and he's got his victim in bed at knife point, no other family/household members awake, dog hasn't barked. Everything seems to going as he wants. He's expecting her to be quiescent. Then what happens?
Valerie doesn't just lie there and let herself be assaulted. She strikes out with her hands and legs. Hard enough to leave marks from her efforts. She hits him in the mouth.
At this point he snaps. Here's his 4th break-in going wrong as well. He becomes enraged and beats her in the head, then switches to stabbing her. Over and over. Then he plays the light over her body, to see what the effects of his attack are. Valerie's moan has brought Loraine to the bedroom door. We know what happens from here on.

Anyway, that's my idea. He wasn't that angry at Valerie personally, but the combination of frustration of having yet another break-in go wrong and Valerie striking him painfully caused him to lose it and go into a brief frenzy.
I had a problem with the link and I'm having to redo it. Nothing new to add.

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/9619/bluemarksretouched2.th.jpg (http://img534.imageshack.us/i/bluemarksretouched2.jpg/)

Luckymanuh
06-12-2010, 08:16 PM
Winward, I could not agree with you more. There were a few break-ins that were indentical if not very close to how the Percy break-in and murder went down. I never for a minute thought it was the step-mom. If she was the only suspect by the KPD then why or why was she not more intensively scrutinized? To this day KPD is covering for the shotty investigation that was performed.
Realpolice63, I too hope that this murder is solved before I die, but I will not hold my breath.

Winward1
06-12-2010, 11:53 PM
That's the thing, Luckymanuh, the step mom rumor was rampant in the area following the murder and, apparently, was spread by local cops (they certainly had reason to spread it.) It is amazing, however, that with the KPD, FBI, Chicago PD, IL State Police and the State's Attorney's Office all working the case, which was covered by the press in a major city, the latter weren't able to delve into the facts of the investigation itself, and no heads rolled at the Kenilworth station.

That would have been a huge story. The fact that, seven years later, one of the city papers was winning Pulitzers with nonsense articles based on little more than jailbird babble about burglars (articles that failed to mention during the crime nothing was touched) while the real story behind the lack of a suspect was police ineptitude shows the press also did a terrible job. I understand the cops in the Ramsey case were scrutinized, from the get go, as highly as family members, etc.

Then again, Chicago was then and remains an amazingly corrupt city, police force and all. They're trying a former commander here for kidnapping and torturing suspects, and though there is mountains of evidence indicating the guy is guilty, it's taken decades and huge protests just to get him into court.

Luckymanuh
06-13-2010, 02:58 PM
Winward what really kills me is the fact I went as far as filed "Freedom of Information Act" claim (whatever you want to call it) on this case and it took 3 months but me filling this and that form just to be told they can't release anything because it is still and active case. Do they really think we are all stupid!!! Active my _ _ _!! The only activity they have is when someone like us or like myself goes to the KPD with info on who I think did it and pushes, and pushes and then they just stop communicating. It really is very sad!!!
I had read that her dresser drawer or drawers were open....unless I am dreaming it but nothing was taken. At least nothing her family knows about. I am sure that we all have stuff in our drawers that no one would even think was important enough to take note of or how many of what.
The LEA's dropped the ball big time on this.

Winward1
06-13-2010, 03:37 PM
That doesn't sound legal. I certainly don't blame any of the current investigators for the ineptitude of their elders nearly half a century ago, but they shouldn't stonewall for them, either. Local cops dropped the ball with the Moxley murder 9 years later. I don't know why Fuhrman would have access to the records he gained, then, either. But he got 'em, despite, supposedly, big time foot dragging by the powers that be. But that was only 25 years later. We're talking 46 now. It was also a failure of the press, to learn the truth, and the Chicago cops, back then, who knew better. The press rely on cops for information. But no one should have been protecting Kenilworth PD. They guaranteed no one else would have been able to help, anyway. The stepmother rumors, are, unfortunately, completely ingrained here at this point. If the media echo chamber didn't exist then, a similar type of effect has always worked in the rumor mill; say something untrue and unfounded enough and people will believe it. Unfortunately no one had a rumor going about clueless local investigators, who would have had no retort.

Luckymanuh
06-13-2010, 10:18 PM
Wasn't there also a rumor about a mentally ill boy that lived down the road who they thought did it? Unfortunately, back then LEA's did not talk to other LEA's. They did not have computer systems that stored info to use to compare. They had to pick up a phone and call each other and heavens forbid they could not handle a crime on their own! I truly believe if it wasn't for the fact that it was Valerie Percy who was murdered the CPD would not have been asked to assist in the case. Plus back in those days there was not a title of "Serial Killer". I truly don't think the cops back then even thought in those terms.

Winward1
06-14-2010, 11:15 AM
There was a small mental hospital just north of Kenilworth, now long gone. But all inmates were accounted for according to what I read. I don't know if they did a bed check at five a.m. that Sunday, though.

Luckymanuh
06-14-2010, 10:19 PM
I think this is one of those murders that LE would just pin on anyone to make it go away

Luckymanuh
06-18-2010, 09:30 AM
To add to my earlier comment....look at the Jeanine Nicarico, Riley Fox, and Sally Kandel cases. I know that Jeanine and Sally's happened during and election year if I am not mistaken. If so, I am sure the pressure was on.

Winward1
06-20-2010, 11:04 PM
I don't believe the Percy killing had anything to do with the election, though it certainly happened in its home stretch.

Luckymanuh
06-22-2010, 09:45 AM
Winward, I totally agree with you. IMHO it was a random break-in murder. Like Sharon Bubes, but she was lucky.

KYgirl
06-23-2010, 12:42 AM
<I understand the cops in the Ramsey case were scrutinized, from the get go, as highly as family members, etc.>

Even though the Boulder Police Dept. were scutinized - they still didn't solve the murder. Kenilworth Police had never had a homicide, this is why they did such a shoddy job! Lack of experience. Mark Furhman (Moxley case) on the other hand had assistance from some very important people including Martha's mother,Dominick Dunne and a former Greenwich,LEO, who had worked Martha's case. The Moxley murder was a cover-up, due to money and politics just like the Percy murder.

Winward1
06-23-2010, 08:58 AM
Definitely similarities between the Moxley case and the Percy case, but only to a point. The biggest two were places of similar demographics and inexperienced LE. In the former case, there was stonewalling by the guilty party, which was a monied family, but someone lied. Furhman had someone come forward that disputed the lie. That person had not come forward previously. That was not the Greenwhich police's fault. Like KWPD, however, it seems neither secured the crime scene.

From what I've read, outside investigators were on the scene in Kenilworth on day one. That doesn't men the crime scene wasn't wrecked before they got there (after all, this attack happened at 5 a.m. on a Sunday. How early could investigators from the state and city get there on a day like that?)

Yes the Boulder Police were scrutinized. That's how it is known their mistakes contributed to the crime not being solved.

Winward1
06-23-2010, 10:46 AM
I believe I read that the Bubes attack happened in an apartment building. Is this so?

Bargle
06-23-2010, 08:00 PM
Winward, all the old posts and article quotes I have only mention that her bedroom was on the first floor. No further description of the building.

Luckymanuh
06-23-2010, 08:26 PM
Winward,
I will pull my file on the Sharon Bubes attack and find out. Having really bad storms AGAIN. Getting off line right now.

Luckymanuh
06-23-2010, 09:41 PM
Okay storms over, man they were wicked!!!!

Okay I found my file on Sharon Bubes. I had a great letter from a detective with the Evanston PD who I contacted in 2005.
She lived in a ranch style home and her bedroom was in the back. The attacker went through the window via a ladder and open window. Sounds like the doctor's house?? She said she did not think he was there to hurt her but to look. He only hit her in the head with a ball pin hammer because she screamed, and then told her not to make a noise.
Her and her sister drawer where their undergarments were keep were gone through.
They think he stole the neighbors bike to get away and found a sci-fi paperback book by a maple tree and they think he sat there waiting for all the lights to go out in the house. She said she fell asleep around 2-3am.

Even though it has been 5 years I may email the detective again with some questions.

Winward1
06-23-2010, 10:32 PM
Well, a ranch house tends to me no second floor. So he used a ladder anyway? I would be interested to see if the house is still there. Does anyone think he was there to rob, to rape, etc?

Luckymanuh
06-24-2010, 10:43 AM
As Sharon Bubes was quoted to say "Just to look". He did rob the underwear drawer.
She describe him as: "m/w teen, 5'10", dark hair, wearing large rim glasses. Dressed in a blue plaid shirt with wheat (tan) jeans.

JBean
06-25-2010, 02:19 AM
Couple things. I talked to my sister a d she said we did not have the alarm installed until AFTER this whole episode. So regarding alarm sophistication we had this installed special due to the break in and it was not very efficient.

Also, this has zero to do with the murder but interesting nonetheless as far as deranged people killing for their own reasons. My father was a plastic surgeon and his career long partner was murdered right in the office. The murderer picked him out of the phone book.
Here is a bit of the story not to derail the thread but senseless:


DR. MARTIN SULLIVAN had "good hands," his colleagues said, supple and efficient, and at 68, he was still steady with the knife. He loved his work as a plastic surgeon, just as he loved his family and his vintage cars. He showed no sign of giving any of it up.
At a time of life when most men have retired, Dr. Sullivan still rose early each morning in his Chicago home, made rounds at several hospitals and was scrubbed and in the operating room by 7:30 A.M. After surgery, he would drive to one of his two offices and see patients until late afternoon. That is what Dr. Sullivan was doing the day a man he had never met showed up for an appointment, filled out several forms, followed him into an examination room and shot him four times in the chest.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/09/05/style/no-remorse.html?pagewanted=all

Winward1
06-25-2010, 09:13 AM
I suspect that your father's partner was the one who was killed on Lake Ave. in Wilmette, early 90s? That was just after I moved back to Chicago, and very bizarre. When it happened I was confused as to where because I grew up in Wilmette but I don't think that office complex was there when I moved away in 1981. Anyway, yes, that guy was a madman and proof even someone like that could get away with murder as he had done in Northern CA., killing so randomly.

Luckymanuh
06-25-2010, 10:24 AM
I was going through some old newspaper articles and I found an interesting tib bit. At the time of Valerie's murder the estate was mention to be worth $200,000. Can you believe that. How times have changed. Who would have thought. Just found it interesting.

Winward1
06-25-2010, 04:26 PM
It's hard to know exactly what the house sold for at that time, though if the price is near accurate, amazing because it was really three lots that, as we know, just sold for over ten million plus costs to tear down and cart off the structures.

JBean
06-25-2010, 07:51 PM
I was going through some old newspaper articles and I found an interesting tib bit. At the time of Valerie's murder the estate was mention to be worth $200,000. Can you believe that. How times have changed. Who would have thought. Just found it interesting.
I would think that is probably fairly accurate based on the value of our family home.
That area, for those that don't know, is fabulous. I grew up there and spent all my formative years riding my tandem with my friends to the beaches along Sheridan. I spent most of my time in Kenilworth, but I swear I never put the bubbles in the Kenilworth fountain.
The homes most of my friends lived in in Kenilworth were so cool and old. My boyfriend's room was on the 3rd floor of a house on Essex and we used to scale the trellis all the way up to access his room..ahem.... after hours.

Ahh those were the days.

JBean
06-25-2010, 07:53 PM
I suspect that your father's partner was the one who was killed on Lake Ave. in Wilmette, early 90s? That was just after I moved back to Chicago, and very bizarre. When it happened I was confused as to where because I grew up in Wilmette but I don't think that office complex was there when I moved away in 1981. Anyway, yes, that guy was a madman and proof even someone like that could get away with murder as he had done in Northern CA., killing so randomly.

That is correct. My father was in practice with him in Evanston at the Carlson Building forever. Then after my father retired,he opened a second office, I believe, in Wilmette.
Still can't wrap my mind around that one.

Ok thanks for indulging me and my OT posts.

Luckymanuh
06-25-2010, 10:26 PM
JBean...you reminded me of how simple life use to be!!! Thanks

Winward1
06-25-2010, 11:48 PM
yes, the office building is in West Wilmette, over near the Dairy Queen that has been there forever, west of Edens Plaza. When it happened, I had not known the building was there as it was built when I lived in CA. The weird thing is, when the manhunt was on, they were looking for a guy in a vintage VW beetle, the one he'd driven from Northern CA in.

I had just returned from Southern CA in my own vintage VW beetle. I can tell you, at that time, the early 90s, as now, there were few vintage VW beetles driving around the north shore. I was in Winnetka at the time and sorta freaked until I heard the suspect's car was a different color than mine.

Winward1
06-29-2010, 10:52 PM
One thing about the case has occurred to me; many stories that cover the moments after Valerie's attacker fled say the police reported that Dr. Hohf's wife saw no one to the rear of the Percy's home after the attack.

Having seen the property with at least some sections of the original structures still there, as well as what appears to be the Hohf's original house and property, one wonders what kind of vantage point Mrs. Hohf had, and whether she was really seeing the rear or front of the Percy's house. The Percy's property, which was actually three properties, was pretty expansive.

There wasn't that much space between the beach and the house (i.e. its rear/backyard.) Also, the patio where the killer made entry, and supposed exist, was pretty far north from the Hohf's house, which likely had a decent wall and/or hedges between. The pool house also was between the two houses, and it was sizable. Hohf's house isn't very tall, if I remember. So I'm not sure if she could have looked out a window. Of course, she may have come over part of the way.

Luckymanuh
07-01-2010, 09:27 PM
Back then was that public beach next to the Percy property?

Winward1
07-01-2010, 09:49 PM
Way back, at the founding of Kenilworth, 700 feet south of Devonshire was allotted to the village for the public's use. However, at some point in the teens or 20s it gave up the right to land and at some point later purchased a couple of hundred feet north of there for the KW public beach. Then, during the 50s or early 60s, the land that included the Percy's beachfront was returned to the village. All is documented except precisely when and how the latter was done. They're not even sure at the historical society.