"The Babysitter" Oakland County Michigan 1976-77

[Richard]

Oakland County Michigan; "The Babysitter" 1976-77

One or more child-killers stalked Oakland County in Michigan during 1976-77. Authorities are certain of a connection in the deaths of four victims, the first being Mark Stebbins, 12, who was abducted in Ferndale while walking to his home on February 13, 1976. His body was found in a parking lot six days afterwards, his corpse meticulously cleaned. Stebbins had been sexually assaulted and smothered to death. On December 12, twelve-year-old Jill Robinson was abducted in Royal Oak and her body found in Troy. Though no sexual assault was evident and the girl had been killed by a shotgun blast, she had also been scrubbed clean before her disposal.

The next certain victim was Kristine Mihelich, 10, who vanished in Berkely on January 2, 1977, and her corpse located nineteen days later in Franklin Village. Like the others, her body had been cleaned after her killer suffocated her death. The last of the series seems to be Timothy King, 11, who went missing on March 11 in Birmingham and found dead in a ditch near Livonia with his body scoured clean, his nails manicured, and his clothes freshly washed and ironed. King was also sexually assaulted before his sad death. By this point the press had picked up on the odd signature of the killings, dubbing the unknown perpetrator "The Babysitter" due to his apparent post-mortem care of the victims.

Other killings that occurred in the aea at the same time have been tentatively linked to the series. Cynthia Cadieux, 16, was abducted and bludgeoned to death on January 15, 1976. Missing from Roseville she was discovered nude in Bloomfield Township the next day. Just five days after Cadieux's disappearance Sheila Shrock was raped and shot dead at her home in Birmingham. Jane Allen, 13, was murdered by carbon monoxide poisoning after accepting a ride in Royal Oak and was found in Miamisburg, Ohio, on August 11, 1976. The 1972 slaying of teenager Donna Serra in Ray Township has also been mentioned as possibly being connected to the string of murders.

Though the body count is disputable, there is one thing for certain. At least one serial killer plied his trade in the normally quiet communities of Oakland County, never to be identified. A long-standing suspect who was killed ina 1981 auto accident has since been cleard of involvement by DNA testing, leaving investigators with little hope of solving this baffling case.

Click here: Unsolved Serial Killings; Cold Cases
http://www.geocities.com/verbal_plainfield/coldcases/coldcases.html

[amandab]

Ooooooooh - Richard - thanks so much for posting this one!!!! I live in Oakland County, minutes from Troy, Royal Oak, and the other cities mentioned here, and this case has ALWAYS fascinated me......

[Richard]

Michigan certainly has had its share of serial killers. Norman John Collins was "The Co-ed Killer" back in the late 1960's.
Coral Watts and Henry Lee Lucas each got their start in Michigan.
Then there was that guy who had been in the Michigan State Band who murdered some women. His case was profiled on TV a few years back when he was up for parole.
And then there is the guy who was recently convicted of killing Nancy Ludwig (he Northwest stewardess) and another woman.
Ted Bundy spent a little time visiting Ann Arbor in 1977 after escaping from a Colorado jail. He moved on to Florida soon afterward, and I don't believe that he was ever linked to any murders in Michigan.
Ted Kaczinski (the Unibomber) attended Graduate School at the University of Michigan in the mid 1960's.
It makes a person wonder if some of the unsolved murders might have been committed by some of these guys.

[Richard]

Here is a link to another website about the "Babysitter" serial killer:

http://webpdp.gator.com/4/message/1295/pip/PluginPageJuly04.html?q=cD01ODkmZD03MDY4NCZlbD0xJn c9UWFRcUxncjdCcGNBQUJSNUJzdw%3D%3D

[Helen Dagner]

Hi,so happy to be here...and to see that Richard started this thread...i have been working on this case for over 14years...and i spent 9mo's with John...who told me he is the OCCK...or The Babysitter...as some still call him.I have over40,000 post on the web...and am still at it...I would like all of you...who are Interested to go on line...see what is out there...and then come back...and we can talk....http://www.geocities.com/jtoddmatthews/Oakland_murders.html?This is the url...for the original story....you can however type into a search...Helen Dagner or Oakland County Child Killer...and you will find many post...of interest...This is the 28th year...that this case has gone unsolved.

[Helen Dagner]

http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?&user=Serialkillerfacts04

[Helen Dagner]

http://books.dreambook.com/jtoddmatthews/oakland.html

[Helen Dagner]

http://mysticsnowangel.proboards27.com/index.cgi?board=sks&action=display&num=1089937602

[Helen Dagner]

http://forum.americanindiantribe.com/viewforum.php?f=3

[Richard]

Helen,
I looked through your links and websites. You provide some very interesting information. I may have missed something, however. What exactly became of your friend "John"? Did he suddenly move away, or is he still in the area?
What bothers me about his story is that supposedly these four known murders occurred in a relatively small space of time, then the killings suddenly stopped. That would usually indicate that the killer moved to another location, or that he was put in prison, or died. It would seem out of the "ordinary" for a serial killer to suddenly stop killing and simply sit back and talk about it in great detail.
I do not know who the 12 likely suspects are that your website refers to, but can imagine who a few might be, based on information now known about some of the serial killers caught over the past 28 years.

[Helen Dagner]

Richard,I do know where John is today,however because something has just come up in the OCCK case in the past two weeks...maybe I should hold off on telling you.Actually there are no dozen suspects...that was an error that was made by a Detroit TV producer...then picked up by that areas...newspaper media.I agree that most killings that stop...are for the reasons you stated...How ever John...is not your run of the mill Serial Killer...and I'm not really sure he has stopped...or that he ever did stop...I'm thinking now...that he may have just....changed his MO....I guess it may sound to some that John...was just bragging to me about the murders....but that wasn't the case....first he talked to me in the third person...then he made a Freudian slip...and I persued it.Richard,when john killed the 4 children,now known as the Oakland County Child Killer victims....he had already been practicing...for a few years...when he perfected his craft...that is when he designed his MO....his motive...was not to kill the children...like in being EVIL...he told me...at the time....he felt he was saving the children-from life as he knew it....and making a statement to the world...he said he had no other way of doing it...what ever his reasoning...the children still ended up dead.

[Richard]

What you describe about John talking in the third person is not uncommon for criminals, especially serial killers. Those who agree to "help" the police often will speak as if they knew the killer or know what he was thinking. Ted Bundy did this, speaking like a psycologist analyzing a subject, while all the time telling in an oblique way what he, himself had done.
Does John travel much in his work or leisure? I am wondering - if he is the killer of the Oakland County Children - whether or not he might be killing in other jurisdictions now, or if he traveled around in the past to other states.

[Helen Dagner]

Yes John Traveled a lot,right after Tim's Murder he went to Fla....then moved to Atlanta GA...then he started to go to Europe...back and forth....always returning to GA....When I met him In Alpena Mi....He said he had come to be near his daughter....but a Lt.on the Alpena Police Dept....told me he thought...John had come there to hide...I have to agree with that....as who would ever think ,you could find-The Oakland County Child Killer...In little old Alpena.When he left Alpena...after the polygraphs...he went back to Ga...Gainsville...then stared his trips once again to Europe....Not much of this is work related...as John has really not worked a lot....but he has tried a few self employed businesses...he had just started a phone card business...and second passport sales....it was at that shoebox office...behind a drawer...on a ledge...that I found a 1970's Manicure set...in a fold over brochade case...it was his souvenir...he had manicured the children...after he bath and killed them.....Richard,I tried to post some documents...the other day...but they would'nt post....what did i do wrong?...or can we not do this?

[Richard]

I am not certain what you did to try to post documents. Are these attatchments that you are trying to send, or are they documents which appear on another website? I don't know how this website is set up for photos, attatchments and such. I would like to know, as I have photos of a suspect drawing in another case.
I initially had a hard time posting links to other websites, but learned a trick to that. Instead of just hitting the "insert in mail" button, I would also line amplify the http address line and include it in an e-mail to be "sent later" I also can copy text from that other website and include it in the "send-later e-mail". When I get what I want, I simply hit Control C on the entire text of my e-mail and copy it onto one of these message forms.
Hope this helps.

[Helen Dagner]

Richard...I tried again,but it wouldn't take....it said a plug-in was not working...then the nexts time it said...my pc was to low on system to complete??I'm hope to take care of the pc issue...and try to post the INFO-again

[Ghostwheel]

I don't think you can post attachments, but if the document is at a URL, then you can link to it. If it is an image (as in a scanned documents), people could see it on line if their User Controls have "Show Images" checked, or could click on the URL to see the docs.

[Helen Dagner]

Thanks...as you have noticed...LOL...I know very little about Pc's....I have a friend who is going to help me out with this...well at least that is what he said...so I hope to Post the Info...very soon....Thank you both for helping me.:slap:

[Helen Dagner]

Something to get you up to date...until I can post the documents...http://forum.americanindiantribe.com/viewtopic.php?t=79

[Helen Dagner]

Dyson Vacuums - Only $99.99 Down

(http://www.bravenetmedianetwork.com/xmlcpc/click.php?ct=aHR0cDovL2Fkcy5iaWRjbGl4LmNvbS9jbGlja y5waHA/cGxhY2VtZW50X2lkPTU5MTY2JmNoYW5uZWxfaWQ9NSZncm91cF 9pZD01NSZhZF9pZD0zNTE4MCZza2luX2lkPTE5OCZ0ZXN0X3Bv cD0w&engine=27&keyword=5985&ctype=1&creative=110&pid=3&c=MC4xNQ%3D%3D)


[ ASK HELEN's Message Board (http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?&user=Serialkillerfacts04) | ASK HELEN (http://hometown.aol.com/bingotank/myhomepage/chatprofile.html) ]

Re(2): WHY DON'T YOU JUST TELL US JOHN'S STORY AGAIN!
Posted on December 18, 2004 at 10:42:06 PM by Ramona from Warren

Helen, Please do not take this as negativity. I am just curious if you can explain something to me. John obviously needed to tell someone what he did, and that someone turned out to be you. You explained that you softened him up and got him to bare his soul to you. I can easily see that you have a talent for getting people to communicate with you. I have to ask why no other person has come forward and stated that John admitted to these killings. Why is John is being so careful to the world but not to you?

Replies:
Re(3): WHY DON'T YOU JUST TELL US JOHN'S STORY AGAIN! (http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1103435013&user=Serialkillerfacts04) - By Helen Dagner December 19, 2004 at 00:43:3

[Richard]

Helen, Check your PM this site.

[Helen Dagner]

Now..lol...I hope you can both find them...as I don't have a clue...how this works...

[amandab]

http://www.wxyz.com/wxyz/nw_local_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15924_3558550,00.html

After receiving some new tips, this case is being reexamined.

[Richard]

Old murder case revived

By Steve Zucker News-Review staff writer
Tuesday, February 22, 2005 3:11 PM EST

The Associated Press

When the Michigan State Police and a host of other police agencies announced last week that they are blowing the dust off of four 30-year-old unsolved murder files from Oakland County, one Northern Michigan resident took more than a passing interest.

Petoskey resident Deb Jarvis, who works in the News-Review's circulation department, is the mother of one of the four children who were abducted and slain in Oakland County between February 1976 and March 1977...

Link:
http://www.petoskeynews.com/articles/2005/02/22/news/local_regional/news02.txt (http://www.petoskeynews.com/articles/2005/02/22/news/local_regional/news02.txt)

[meggilyweggily]

I remember reading somewhere that before Timothy King's body was found, his mom went on TV and said she would feed him a chicken dinner, his favorite food, if he was returned to her. And the Babysitter fed Timothy a chicken dinner before he died. That man must have some twisted sense of humor.

I'm inclined to believe the Babysitter is dead or otherwise physically unable to kill any more children, but the Green River Killer and BTK went dormant...

[Richard]

...I'm inclined to believe the Babysitter is dead or otherwise physically unable to kill any more children, but the Green River Killer and BTK went dormant...
A serial killer going "dormant" for a period of time - that is going for a spell without aparently killing - seems to be a feature or trait that is common in most serial killers. There are a number of reasons for this. Often it is because the killer is incarcerated for other crimes, like burglary or theft. Sometimes he goes through a change in lifestyle, like getting married or moving to another locality and getting involved in a new job. Other times he might be under psychiatric care and medication. Or he might be under other influences and stresses which bring out his evil character.

Another factor which might make a killer appear to go dormant could be that he changes his modus operandi (MO). In the case of Michigan's "Oakland County Babysitter", he actually killed in different ways, but other factors linked his killings together. In searching for possible links to other unsolved child murders, one would have to consider those other factors, rather than the manner of death itself.

In the past, crimes in one location might suddenly stop, and because murders or disappearances were only being investigated locally, it would appear that the killer had gone "dormant" - when in actuality, he might have simply moved to another state. This was the case with Ted Bundy, moving from Washington to Utah. Meanwhile, other killings of his in Idaho and Colorado, were not immediately recognized, because they were outside of his "area".

A series of killings in one locality can often be tied together quickly, but individual killings are often unsolved because of either the killer moving often, or because of a changing MO.

[meggilyweggily]

There has been some suggestion that the disappearance of Kimberly King is linked to the Babysitter. She was about the same age and disappeared in about the same place at about the same time as the others. (She had the same surname as his last confirmed victim, Timothy King, but I don't think they were related.)

But she was never found. If the Babysitter killed her, he would have had to change his MO -- hiding her body well instead of dumping it along the road in plain view. Of course, it's smarter to hide the body, you're less likely to be caught that way. Unless they find the Babysitter though, who knows if Kimberly's case will ever be solved.

[Richard]

There has been some suggestion that the disappearance of Kimberly King is linked to the Babysitter. She was about the same age and disappeared in about the same place at about the same time as the others. (She had the same surname as his last confirmed victim, Timothy King, but I don't think they were related.)

But she was never found. If the Babysitter killed her, he would have had to change his MO -- hiding her body well instead of dumping it along the road in plain view. Of course, it's smarter to hide the body, you're less likely to be caught that way. Unless they find the Babysitter though, who knows if Kimberly's case will ever be solved.
Kimberly disappeared from Warren, Michigan in 1979. This was two years after the killings generally attributed to the "Babysitter". It is quite possible that he was responsible for her abduction as well, but unfortunately there is no physical evidence that connects him at this time. There is a thread for Kimberly on this board.

Link to Kimberly Alice King poster:
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewPoster&caseNum=601787&orgPrefix=NCMC&searchLang=en_US

[mysteriew]

Investigators are hoping DNA evidence from another case will hold clues to the 1976 slayings of four children in Oakland County.

The investigation began when Michigan State Police detectives reopened a cold-case file on the 1972 homicides of two Bay County teenagers whose bodies were left in ditches, Local 4 reported. Officers flew to Texas Tuesday to interview a suspect in the case, Todd Warzecha and take DNA samples, according to the report.

Once in Texas, officers found the 53-year-old man hanging from the ceiling of a storage shed in an apparent suicide, Local 4 reported.

Investigators are now taking DNA samples from Warzecha's body to determine if there is a match in the Oakland County homicides.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/4620716/detail.html

[blueclouds]

Interesting article!!!!!!!!
http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/081405/loc_200508140010.shtml

"
Gray will travel to an Indiana prison soon to interview a convicted child killer in connection with the case. He's also hoping to get a DNA sample from the man. And, acting on a tip, Gray and Berkley Police Detective Ray Anger - who took the original missing child report from the Mihelich family - searched a Macomb County home after someone called in a tip about a man who used to live there.

According to the tipster, the man, whom Gray said committed suicide - might have been connected to the case.

"We haven't found anything yet," Gray said. "It was a good tip, though."

Through the years, there has been a series of strong leads. In 1999, the body of autoworker David Norberg was exhumed from his Wyoming grave so his DNA could be compared with the hair. It wasn't a match, but Norberg remains under suspicion.

Earlier this year, investigators collected blood samples from 53-year-old Todd Warzecha, who committed suicide by hanging himself in a Texas storage shed.

Warzecha, a known child molester, was a suspect in the 1972 slayings of two teenage boys in Bay City. He was also a suspect in the Oakland County case and was interviewed by detectives. He passed a polygraph test.

Warzecha's DNA, along with DNA from a man who died in prison, is being tested. Gray said DNA from another man, who is still alive, was also sent for tests last week.

Samples from the prisoner in Indiana and another suspect will be sought and tested, he said.

"There's a lot riding on this case," he said."


......... sad to think that these children might not be the only ones this guy killed. :(

[mysteriew]

A serial killer accused in a 1974 stabbing death in Kalamazoo and convicted in a 1979 murder in Ferndale has denied involvement in the Michigan killings in a letter to The Detroit News.

In a five-page, handwritten letter from Ionia Maximum Correctional Facility, Coral Watts maintains his innocence in the two killings. The letter, which rails against authorities, was in response to an Aug. 8 request by the newspaper for an interview
http://www.kristv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3759936

[Norma]

Every day I drive by the area where Jill Robinson's body was found, so I often study the area. That area is busy, very well lit, full of curves so you need to pay attention to how you're driving, and at that exit, there is the Troy police station.

Putting her body here seem to me to be an 'in your face' action - Certainly a move by someone who's confident they are going to get away with it. My old car had broken down twice in this same area (except heading south), and both times I've had strangers stop to help me. I would think that any vehicle at the side of the road in this area would draw attention.

[Richard]

Doesn't it just make you want to cry for this poor guy, when the courts and the press are so prejudiced against him? He says he didn't do it. Shouldn't that be enough to convince anybody? The injustice of it all.
-----------------------------------------------
In a five-page, handwritten letter from Ionia Maximum Correctional Facility, Coral Watts maintains his innocence in the two killings. The letter, which rails against authorities, was in response to an Aug. 8 request by the newspaper for an interview.


"If they have deceived the public into believing I did something I did not do and then went about convicting an innocent man, they should receiv(e) no less punishment then they would impose on me," Watts wrote in the letter, parts of which were published Wednesday by the newspaper.



Watts, 51, is charged with first-degree murder in the death of 19-year-old Gloria Steele. She was stabbed 33 times in the chest on Oct. 30, 1974, in the apartment she shared with her 3-year-old daughter.



An Oakland County judge sentenced Watts to life in prison in December for the 1979 murder of Helen Dutcher in the Detroit suburb of Ferndale. At his sentencing, Watts denied that he killed Dutcher.



Before that, Watts had been scheduled for release from a Texas pri6son after getting immunity for 12 killings to which he had confessed 11 in Texas and one in Michigan as part of a 1982 plea deal with Texas prosecutors.

[mysteriew]

The Michigan State Police crime lab is reexamining nearly 30-year-old evidence -- including clothing, a bicycle and a skateboard -- in hopes that modern technology will identify the person who killed four children in the 1970s and close one of Oakland County's most notorious unsolved cases.

DNA samples from three potential suspects -- all of whom are dead -- have been sent to a crime lab for testing, Gray said. The samples will be compared with a hair found on one of the children and thought to belong to the killer. Results are expected in about six months.

Forensic specialists also are combing evidence collected by police after the bodies were found -- including the clothing the children were found in, Robinson's bicycle and King's skateboard -- in hopes of finding a clue.

The suspects are:

•David Norberg, a Warren autoworker at the time of the killings. Norberg moved to the state of Wyoming in 1980 and died a year later. His body was exhumed in 1999, and DNA was examined. It did not match the hair that was found on one of the bodies. But, Gray said, that does not rule him out as a suspect because the hair might not have belonged to the killer.

•Todd Warzecha, of Austin, Texas. Warzecha was suspected of killing two teens in 1972 -- Norbert Peck, 14, and Oscar Garcia, 18 -- in Saginaw County. He was interviewed by detectives and passed a polygraph test shortly after the killings, but is still a suspect because polygraphs are not foolproof, police said. Warzecha committed suicide in Texas.

•John McRae, who died in a Jackson prison in June. He was convicted of killing two boys in Michigan and was a suspect in the disappearance of three Florida boys. Gray did not mention anything that would specifically link McRae to this case, but said he is a suspect because of the two other killings.

•A prisoner in Indiana who was convicted of killing a child. Gray said he plans to interview the prisoner, who he would not identify, as well as test his DNA.
http://www.freep.com/news/locoak/childkiller7e_20051007.htm

[Marilynilpa]

I read about this case for the first time this weekend. Does anyone know the outcome of the DNA testing that was conducted?

From what I read, Sheila Shrock was raped and sodomized, and a neighbor saw the whole thing. He was apparently on the roof of his house, shoveling snow, when the attack took place.

That strikes me as very odd - why didn't he yell or do something to stop the attack on Sheila? And why wasn't he able to provide a description of the man?

That just seems very strange to me.

[amandab]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/5433527/detail.html

DNA tests were negative. Ugh.

[Marilynilpa]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/5433527/detail.html

DNA tests were negative. Ugh.
Thanks so much for that update. I'm surprised that the DNA didn't match any of the suspects, but at least now LE knows who to rule out.

[mysteriew]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/5433527/detail.html

DNA tests were negative. Ugh.

Additional info on the testing:

The results do not rule out the suspects -- two of whom are dead -- because it is unclear where the hair came from, or whether the hair police found is even from the killer, said State Police Detective Sgt. Garry Gray.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051201/NEWS03/512010548/1005

[Norma]

Can they even tell if the hair is male or female?

[meggilyweggily]

Can they even tell if the hair is male or female?
If it was a long hair, that might be an indication that it's a female hair. Or maybe if there was the root there, they could get DNA out of it or something.

[mysteriew]

If it was a long hair, that might be an indication that it's a female hair. Or maybe if there was the root there, they could get DNA out of it or something.

They got DNA, but it didn't match the suspects. But since they don't know where the hair came from, or who, or how it got there that means it doesn't rule out the suspects it just means that isn't proof against the suspects.

[Richard]

I think that a possible answer to who this guy is might be found in old police files. Considering all the children that the killer was able to successfully abduct, I would think it possible that other attempts were made which were foiled or aborted. For instance, is there a report or reports from the Oakland County area before, during, or shortly after this string of related murders it might contain a description of the man and his methods?

[hoppyfrog]

In August 1985, shortly after I graduated from university, I participated in a writing conference at Cranbrook, near Detroit. I was in the creative writing section of the conference, but in the evenings all the participants were together for general sessions. One of these sessions was led by a Detroit journalist (TV, I believe) who had extensively covered the OCCK while they were happening. She had a lot of interesting things to say, but the most important, IMO, was that LE believed the murders were committted by a local church pastor who had access to a cottage up north (though he didn't own it himself) and also had access to a blue sub-compact car. The car was at least tentatively linked to the murders. The cottage was important because it was thought he kept the kids there before he bought them back to the Detroit area were they were then killed. The journalist also said this pastor committed suicide 9 months after the last murder.

So there you have it, "it" being what I heard, not from LE but from a source that was very close to LE.

One more story about that: the journalist told us quite a few stories about how the media cooperated with LE to try to catch the killer. For example, LE held regular (daily?) press conferences that appeared to be "real," including pleas from victims' families, assurances that LE was doing all it could, etc. These were the press conferences that were broadcast. But then all the recording devices were turned off and LE told the journalists what was actually happening on the case. During the press conferences that appeared to be real, LE might talk, for example, and make numerous references to squirrels, e.g. "Squirrelly things are happening in this case" or "It's going to be cold out tonight and all the squirrels will be huddled in their nests," in an effort to lure the killer out to Squirrel Road.

The journalist told other stories like that (which I don't remember, so don't ask!) about the crazy extent to which LE and the media cooperated in order to solve the case. It sounded like LE was quite open with the media as long as the media didn't print certain sensitive info.

Because of what this journalist said, I wasn't surprised to find that the DNA from the hair found on the victim didn't match any of the suspects. My best guess is that the hair didn't belong to the killer. Otherwise they'd be able to match the hair to the suspect I mentioned above.

I wonder if anyone is interested in searching throught Detroit-area obituaries from the period of about 9 months after the last murder. I have no idea how to do that. Of course, there might not be an obit.

I wonder if I can dig up the journalist's name. Hmm.

You're welcome to ask me questions to jog my memory, but remember I heard all this twenty years ago!

Hoppy

[Richard]

In August 1985, shortly after I graduated from university, I participated in a writing conference at Cranbrook, near Detroit. I was in the creative writing section of the conference, but in the evenings all the participants were together for general sessions. One of these sessions was led by a Detroit journalist (TV, I believe) who had extensively covered the OCCK while they were happening. She had a lot of interesting things to say, but the most important, IMO, was that LE believed the murders were committted by a local church pastor who had access to a cottage up north (though he didn't own it himself) and also had access to a blue sub-compact car. The car was at least tentatively linked to the murders. The cottage was important because it was thought he kept the kids there before he bought them back to the Detroit area were they were then killed. The journalist also said this pastor committed suicide 9 months after the last murder....

I wonder if anyone is interested in searching throught Detroit-area obituaries from the period of about 9 months after the last murder. I have no idea how to do that. Of course, there might not be an obit.

I wonder if I can dig up the journalist's name. Hmm.... Hoppy
This is very interesting and might be worth pursuing, even so many years later. As to finding out the Journalist's name, that might be fairly easy, if you were to contact the Cranbrook Institute and see if they have a file or program of that conference. With more information from her, such as a possible name or the pastor or his church, etc, it will make follow up searching possible.

Lacking such a program, it might be possible to check Detroit News/Free Press microfilm files for that time frame to see who covered the case. The Detroit News/Freepress has an on-line data base of obituaries, but it is a day by day thing, and I do not think that there is a master index for it. Besides, I don't think that it goes back that far.

It is more likely that a search of microfilm copies would be required. An interim step might be to get a list of possible pastors, or name of this particular pastor, then check the Social Security Death Index for more information, such as specific date. An obit or funeral notice will provide more info such as funeral home, cemetery, and possibly relatives.

If there was a place where all the children were taken before being killed, then it would be quite possible and likely that a hair on one victim may have come from another victim.

If the location of such a cottage was known, it might be possible to check the basement and grounds for other possible victims or evidence.

If a specific car was associated with the abductions and murders, then possibly there was a description of the driver somewhere as well.

[hoppyfrog]

This is very interesting and might be worth pursuing, even so many years later. As to finding out the Journalist's name, that might be fairly easy, if you were to contact the Cranbrook Institute and see if they have a file or program of that conference. With more information from her, such as a possible name or the pastor or his church, etc, it will make follow up searching possible.

Lacking such a program, it might be possible to check Detroit News/Free Press microfilm files for that time frame to see who covered the case. The Detroit News/Freepress has an on-line data base of obituaries, but it is a day by day thing, and I do not think that there is a master index for it. Besides, I don't think that it goes back that far.

It is more likely that a search of microfilm copies would be required. An interim step might be to get a list of possible pastors, or name of this particular pastor, then check the Social Security Death Index for more information, such as specific date. An obit or funeral notice will provide more info such as funeral home, cemetery, and possibly relatives.

If there was a place where all the children were taken before being killed, then it would be quite possible and likely that a hair on one victim may have come from another victim.

If the location of such a cottage was known, it might be possible to check the basement and grounds for other possible victims or evidence.

If a specific car was associated with the abductions and murders, then possibly there was a description of the driver somewhere as well.
I'm going to start by looking through my files to see if I have the name of the journalist or a contact person for the conference. I doubt the Detroit newspapers would mention a TV journalist who was also covering the case, don't you think?

My best guess is that LE would have thoroughly searched the cottage and car the pastor had access to, but didn't find any evidence.

Suicide would certainly explain why this particular MO and serial killing stopped. After I posted last night I also recalled that the journalist said that as of 1985, this particular MO had not been duplicated/continued anywhere else in the world.

She also said that as of 1985 the Michigan State Police still had one officer assigned full-time to the case.

I'll try to get to my files soon to find that journalist's name, but with the holidays and all....argh!

Hoppy

[shadowangel]

My best guess is that LE would have thoroughly searched the cottage and car the pastor had access to, but didn't find any evidence.

Hoppy
Never assume that---Without probable cause for a warrant they would have searched nothing! Strong anecdotal evidence will rarely sway any judge, especially in a homicide case.

[Richard]

I'm going to start by looking through my files to see if I have the name of the journalist or a contact person for the conference. I doubt the Detroit newspapers would mention a TV journalist who was also covering the case, don't you think?...
...I'll try to get to my files soon to find that journalist's name, but with the holidays and all....argh! Hoppy
Usually Newspapers would not mention names of TV reporters or their stories, but often TV channels will advertise their programs, including news, in newspapers. Now that you have thought about this person, the answer will probably come to you in the next few days at a time when you least expect it. It happens like that to me sometimes.

[shadowangel]

Usually Newspapers would not mention names of TV reporters or their stories, but often TV channels will advertise their programs, including news, in newspapers. Now that you have thought about this person, the answer will probably come to you in the next few days at a time when you least expect it. It happens like that to me sometimes.
Right, like you don't have instant recall of all things. We believe that, Richard. ;)

[hoppyfrog]

Never assume that---Without probable cause for a warrant they would have searched nothing! Strong anecdotal evidence will rarely sway any judge, especially in a homicide case.
Agreed. I was assuming that if they had a warrant they would have searched it. Getting a warrant is a whole other matter.

Hoppy

[hoppyfrog]

I located the journalist's name in my files.:) I'm not going to publicly post her name here, but I will attempt to locate her. If any of you are interested in helping me locate her, pm me. Here goes...

Okay, I located her!:woohoo:

Fortunately she hasn't left her profession or state, so that made it a lot simpler. So don't pm me. :)

I will email her, see what happens, and let you know.

Hoppy

[PonderingThings]

Hoppy did you ever get a response or more info?

[amandab]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/7810566/detail.html

New information coming from a very creepy man........

[hoppyfrog]

Hoppy did you ever get a response or more info?
I haven't yet pursued it. Life is busy.

Hoppy

[hoppyfrog]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/7810566/detail.html

New information coming from a very creepy man........
If you see any follow up to this, please post it.

Hoppy

[amandab]

If you see any follow up to this, please post it.

Hoppy

Will do, Hoppy. This hits extremely close to home for me, location-wise.

[Richard]

The Oakland County (Michigan) "Babysitter" murders began 30 years ago. There have been a number of leads, suspects, and theories in the past. This is the latest one. Investigators have DNA and other evidence in several of the cases. It will be interesting to see if anything matches with what this guy says, or if he is just playing games and pretending to know something.

-------------------------------------------------
Convict Provides New Leads In 1970s Child Slayings
March 8, 2006
OAK PARK, Mich. -- Investigators are hoping information from a man convicted this week in a suburban Detroit murder case will lead them to the killer of four Oakland County children in the 1970s.

Richard Lawson, 60, who was found guilty Tuesday of a 1989 murder in Livonia, recently has given police information in the "Oakland County Child Killer" cases, State Police Detective Sgt. Garry Gray, who is leading the investigation, said Wednesday.

Gray called Lawson a "person of interest" whose information has led investigators to Detroit's Cass Avenue corridor, which he described as a skid row with rampant prostitution and pornography at the time of the killings.

"We have some good, solid leads, good solid information. Lawson's a part of that process," said Gray, who would not provide more details.

Gray said Lawson has talked at length with investigators about the killings.

He said no break in the case is imminent. "We've got our hopes up. We've got things that I, of course, can't discuss," Gray said.

Lawson was found guilty of first-degree murder and armed robbery in Wayne County Circuit Court in the death of Livonia businessman Exavor Giller, a cab company owner who was shot and killed outside his home. He will be sentenced March 21.

A message seeking comment from Lawson was left Wednesday with his social worker at the Wayne County Jail.

Former Detroit Police Chief Isaiah McKinnon said Lawson was a paid informant for police in the 1970s and gave officers information about child molesters.

The child deaths horrified the Detroit area starting in 1976, with parents keeping their children in sight at all times. All the children were abducted from business areas in suburban Oakland County.

Eleven-year-old Timothy King, 12-year-old Mark Stebbins, 12-year-old Jill Robinson and 10-year-old Kristine Mihelich were suffocated between February 1976 and March 1977. Their bodies were found after each went missing for periods ranging from three to 19 days. Two had been raped, and one also was shot in the face with a shotgun.

Through the years, a series of strong leads has developed, but so far none has resulted in an arrest....

Check link for photo of Lawson and links to previous stories.
Link:
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/7854072/detail.html

[PonderingThings]

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006604050423



The black trunk that Chip St. Clair found in his father's apartment years ago is filled with secrets.

In it are locks of brown hair and baby teeth, a birth certificate for St. Clair that appears to have been altered, newspaper clippings of Michigan's most-wanted criminals and photos of children that are supposed to be of St. Clair, but don't look like him.

The contents could be clues in one of Oakland County's most notorious unsolved cases -- or no more than family mementos.

Police will travel to an Indiana prison today to question St. Clair's father, Michael Grant, in connection with the deaths of four children -- ages 10, 11 and 12 -- three decades ago. They also plan to ask for a sample of Grant's DNA, to see whether it matches a hair found on one of the victims.

It is another twist in the decades-long mystery of the Oakland County child killings and in the harrowing relationship St. Clair has had with his father, much of which has been told in the Free Press and on television news programs.


Excellent article - lots more details at link.

[shipmatekate]

Hi Folks

I am new here, but wanted to post this!

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/040506/loc_2006040504.shtml



Detectives set to question man in child killer case

Web-posted Apr 5, 2006


By KORIE WILKINS
Of The Oakland Press


OAK PARK - Michigan State Police detectives will travel to Indiana this week to interview a man in connection with the Oakland County Child Killer case.

Advertisement

http://204.176.34.102/phpadsnew/adview.php?what=zone:12&n=a9aea9cd (http://204.176.34.102/phpadsnew/adclick.php?n=a9aea9cd)A tip from an Oakland County man about his father, who is incarcerated for killing another child, led to the interview, planned for today, Detective Sgt. Garry Gray said.

Chip St. Clair said he's had suspicions that his father could be the Oakland County Child Killer for a few years. After talking about his life story at an event in Lansing a few years ago, a man who used to work for the probation department in Macomb County approached St. Clair about his father, Michael David Grant. The man said it sounded like someone who could be a serial killer.

St. Clair contacted the Michigan State Police with his suspicions several months ago.

"My entire life has been turned upside down," St. Clair said. "I don't know what to expect. I don't know who my father is anymore or what he's capable of."

St. Clair, who was mentally and physically abused by his father for years, now heads the Michigan chapter of Justice for Children, a Texasbased nonprofi t organization that has advocated for abused children for about 20 years.

After a fi ght with his father 1998, St. Clair learned his father was actually a convicted felon who walked away from a prison work camp in Indiana in 1973 and into the car of Leslie Weaver, St. Clair's biological mother. After Grant's arrest in Auburn Hills in 1998, he was sent back to prison but is expected to be released in 2007.

Grant was sentenced to 2-21 years for the stomping death of Scott Ingersoll, the 3-yearold son of his girlfriend, Vicki Ingersoll, in 1970. He never faced charges for his escape.

Gray said investigators will try to obtain a DNA sample from Grant that will be compared to a sample police have that could belong to the killer.

Grant could not be reached for comment. Weaver has remarried and also could not be reached for comment.

"We want to talk to him and find out about the who, what, where, when and why," Gray said. "I don't foresee any great revelations. But can I rule him out? No."

St. Clair would have been a baby at the time of the killings. He said the family lived in Michigan at the time, either in Warren or Southfi eld. Grant and Weaver moved to Michigan in 1975, St. Clair said, and lived here until 1985, when the family moved to California. They moved back to Michigan in 1989.

Although much of St. Clair's past has been lost or destroyed, there is a box of items that his parents had, containing baby teeth, locks of hair and pictures of strange children. St. Clair said it's just another mystery from his past.

"I just want to rule it out," he said. "I just want to close that door."

The killings, which started in Oakland County in 1976, shocked and horrifi ed parents, who tried to keep their children indoors.

The victims were 12-yearold Mark Stebbins, abducted while walking near his Ferndale home Feb. 15, 1976; 12-year-old Jill Robinson, taken in Royal Oak on Dec. 22, 1976; 10-year-old Kristine Mihelich, snatched near her Berkley home Jan. 2, 1977; and 11-year-old Timothy King, kidnapped from a grocery store parking lot near his home in Birmingham on March 16, 1977.

The killer was dubbed "the baby sitter" because he kept his victims alive for days, feeding and bathing them before murdering them and leaving their bodies for others to find. Two of the children were raped.

Through the years, a series of strong leads has developed, but so far, none has resulted in an arrest.

Recently, Michigan State Police investigators said DNA tests of four possible suspects - two living and two dead - did not match what officials believe is a sample from the killer. Investigators said those findings didn't rule out any of the four suspects. A match could confirm the identity of the killer. The samples were tested against a single hair found on one of the children.

St. Clair said he wouldn't be surprised to learn that his father could have been responsible for the brutal slayings. And he said a woman who contacted him last year after seeing media reports of his father's attempt to get released from prison made him even more interested in learning the truth. The woman told him Grant resembled a man who tried to kidnap her in the 1970s in Oakland County.

St. Clair said he will do everything in his power to keep Grant incarcerated.

"I can come to terms with him being the child killer," he said. "Nothing about him would surprise me anymore."

This latest lead comes on the heels of one last month, when investigators talked to convicted killer Richard Lawson, 60, who murdered a Livonia man, Exavor Giller, in 1989. Authorities learned of Lawson's ties to the Cass Corridor area of Detroit in the 1970s around the time of the child killings. The Cass Corridor was a hotbed for criminal activity at the time, including pedophilia and child pornography.

Information from that lead led to an Ohio man, whom Gray said investigators plan to interview.

Gray said investigators also plan to interview a man who lives in the western part of the country. "We're still tracking down leads," he said. Detectives set to question man in child killer case


Web-posted Apr 5, 2006


Has this guy come up on the radar before??

Many thanks!

[amandab]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/9202297/detail.html

No shortage of creepy folks with this case...

[christine2448]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/9202297/detail.html

No shortage of creepy folks with this case...Flippin unbelievable.....you never know what is going on in your neighbors house!
Quote from Article

"Inside the home, police found letters written to serial killers, child pornography, 8 mm film dating back to the 1970s, computer files and a sex slave dungeon equipped with shackles and a jail-like door that locked from the outside, Local 4 reported."


I wonder what they will find when all this stuff is tested???? I imagine they would do that right?

[mysteriew]

As local TV news reported a break in the 30-year-old Oakland County child killer case Thursday night, few officials deeply involved in the case had their hopes up.

The latest potential clue, as reported Thursday by WDIV-TV (Channel 4), centers on Randall Raar, a 58-year-old Lincoln Park man arrested Wednesday on sex-crime charges. Raar, an ex-convict, was found guilty in 1984 of third-degree criminal sexual conduct, according to the Michigan Department of Corrections.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060512/NEWS03/605120483

[Richard]

Child killer link doubted

.... The latest potential clue, as reported Thursday by WDIV-TV (Channel 4), centers on Randall Raar, a 58-year-old Lincoln Park man arrested Wednesday on sex-crime charges. Raar, an ex-convict, was found guilty in 1984 of third-degree criminal sexual conduct, according to the Michigan Department of Corrections.

An official close to the case who requested anonymity told the Free Press that Raar confessed to the child killings after he was arrested and is being questioned further about the deaths of the four children in the 1970s. But Rarr is one of many who have claimed some link to or knowledge of the killings.

WDIV reported that Michigan State Police discovered a sex-slave dungeon and child porn in Raar's basement.

"I just refuse to get excited," said Oakland County Executive L. Brooks Patterson, who was the county's prosecutor when four children were kidnapped and killed in 1976 and 1977. "I think after 30 years, law enforcement and the community both are desperate for a positive development and are eager to grasp at any potential clue that might unravel this crime."

But Thursday, investigators contacted by the Free Press, including some who have followed developments in the case for years, didn't know of any link to the 30-year-old slayings.

Deb Carley, Oakland County's chief deputy prosecutor, said she'd never heard of Raar. She referred questions to State Police Sgt. Garry Gray, who's been investigating the case. He declined to comment and referred questions to Detective Sgt. Ken Walker, who did not return phone calls Thursday.

Officials with the Wayne County Prosecutor's Office also said they hadn't been notified of Raar's possible link to the case.

"It's another lead that has to be followed," Patterson said, "but I've been down that blind alley so many times."

Gray announced in April that he planned to interview a prisoner in Westville, Ind., about the inmate's possible knowledge of the killings. But Gray told the Free Press he postponed the interview because media interest had created "kind of a circus."

The killings claimed the lives of Timothy King, 11, of Birmingham; Kristine Mihelich, 10, of Berkley; Jill Robinson, 12, of Royal Oak, and Mark Stebbins, 12, of Ferndale. Two of the children were sexually assaulted.

At the time, all four killings were believed to have been committed by one man, dubbed the Oakland County child killer. But investigators have recently said they think there may have been more than one killer. ...

[amandab]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/9208852/detail.html

A little more info about this Raar guy....

[mysteriew]

You know, it seems kind of odd to me. The case sits apparently dormant for thirty years, then suddenly suspects are popping out all over the place.

[crimson3]

Just wondering if there have been any new developments in this case?

[palmerk]

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061211/NEWS99/61211012

Basically one of 2 men indited for running a child sex ring is being identified as a suspect.

[Taximom]

AP article about this guy:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/gen/ap/MI_Old_Sexual_Assaults.html

[christine2448]

This was part of an email correspondence I rec'd from James Renner today, Author of the book on Amy Mihaljevic:


By the way, a suspect in the Oakland County child
murders from the 70's was arrested out here last week. I tried to find him while
researching the book on Amy, because of the weird similarities between the
Oakland County crimes and Amy's case. There's more info on my blog about all
this at www.amymihaljevic.blogspot.com (http://www.amymihaljevic.blogspot.com/)
-James

[Taximom]

This was part of an email correspondence I rec'd from James Renner today, Author of the book on Amy Mihaljevic:


By the way, a suspect in the Oakland County child
murders from the 70's was arrested out here last week. I tried to find him while
researching the book on Amy, because of the weird similarities between the
Oakland County crimes and Amy's case. There's more info on my blog about all
this at www.amymihaljevic.blogspot.com (http://www.amymihaljevic.blogspot.com/)
-JamesWow, that's weird. I thought about Amy when I posted the link above. I figured police had already looked at this guy for several cases in N. Ohio's past. I hope so anyway!

[palmerk]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/10519865/detail.html

[mysteriew]

After reading this, I'm not real optimistic

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061213/NEWS03/612130315/1005/NEWS

[Richard]

Recent leads would seem to be a flash in the pan. Anything new being reported on these cases?

[palmerk]

http://www.wxyz.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=f90a3148-6851-4a41-a55b-4c15612ceba5

"WXYZ has learned Theodore Lamborgine, who pleaded guilty to 15 sex-related counts involving young boys, is the number one suspect in the Oakland County child killer case.
Investigators revealed this to WXYZ's Heather Catallo after Theodore Lamborgine pleaded guilty instead of accepting a deal that would have required him to take a polygraph on the Oakland County child killer case.

Lamborgine, 66, of Parma Heights, Ohio, was first offered 25 to 50 years in prison if he pleaded guilty to two counts of criminal sexual conduct.

He refused and Wayne County prosecutors made him a second offer to reduce his sentence by 10 more years if he would submit to a polygraph test on the 1976 murders of four children in Oakland County. " (More at link)

[christine2448]

http://www.wxyz.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=f90a3148-6851-4a41-a55b-4c15612ceba5

"WXYZ has learned Theodore Lamborgine, who pleaded guilty to 15 sex-related counts involving young boys, is the number one suspect in the Oakland County child killer case.
Investigators revealed this to WXYZ's Heather Catallo after Theodore Lamborgine pleaded guilty instead of accepting a deal that would have required him to take a polygraph on the Oakland County child killer case.

Lamborgine, 66, of Parma Heights, Ohio, was first offered 25 to 50 years in prison if he pleaded guilty to two counts of criminal sexual conduct.

He refused and Wayne County prosecutors made him a second offer to reduce his sentence by 10 more years if he would submit to a polygraph test on the 1976 murders of four children in Oakland County. " (More at link) Hmmm, very interesting. Thanks for the update palmerk.

[docwho3]

. . .Lamborgine may also be a "person of interest" in the unsolved abduction/murder of 10-year-old Amy Mihaljevic, in Bay Village, Ohio, in 1989. Like the children from Oakland County, Amy was abducted in a business district, and seemed to go willingly with her kidnapper. Also like the children from Oakland County, Amy's body was discovered in a field just a few feet from a country road, as if it was put there to be found easily.
On March 27, 2007, investigators told television station WXYZ that Lamborghine was considered the top suspect in this case. Lamborghine pleaded guilty to 15 sex-related counts involving young boys rather than accept a plea bargain that would have required him to take a polygraph test on the Oakland County child killings. Lamborghine also rejected an offer of a reduced sentence in exchange for a polygraph on the case. . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_County_Child_Killer

[Rhett]

What about the Raar guy? Didn't the news reports say that he impersonated a modeling agent? Could this be our tape recorder man from the Lyon girls case. I know it is a different state but stranger things have happened.

[hoppyfrog]

Here's the link to a story from yesterday's Detroit Free Press:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070328/NEWS03/70328021/1009/NEWS07

And here's a quote from the article:

Parma Heights Police Detective Steve Scharschmidt said Lawson said he felt Lamborgine "could be involved."

Sources said Lamborgine has since failed a polygraph test and DNA results are pending.

In the Oakland County child killer case, investigators have a piece of evidence - a single hair taken from one of the victims - that they believe belongs to the killer. Over the years, authorities have tested the hair sample against the DNA of several suspects but to no avail.

[muse217]

What ever became of Helen Dagner?

[christine2448]

What ever became of Helen Dagner?

? Here is a link to Helen's case page

http://www.geocities.com/jtoddmatthews/Oakland_murders.html?This

[muse217]

Thanks for the link, Christine. The last update on her site is May 10, 2003. I'm curious.

[christine2448]

Thanks for the link, Christine. The last update on her site is May 10, 2003. I'm curious.

I printed this thread, and read it on my break, I had followed it awhile back, but wanted to refresh my memory. I'm curious too.

[christine2448]

? Here is a link to Helen's case page

http://www.geocities.com/jtoddmatthews/Oakland_murders.html?This

Forgive me this is not Helen's page, it is someone who she sent all the info to:
Todd Matthews (JTMatthews@TwLakes.Net)
ColdCases Moderator/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/coldcases/)
Media Director for
Doenetwork (http://www.doenetwork.org/) &
Outpost For Hope (http://www.outpostforhope.org/)

[christine2448]

Check this out....

http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?&user=Serialkillerfacts04

Updated yesterday :)

OH here is the main page (ETA)
http://helendagner.com/

[muse217]

I admire Ms. Dagner's fortitude; I just wonder why her information and evidence have been pushed aside. Perhaps someone in LE was involved, or had a brother who was involved, etc. I do find it kind of creepy that she spent so much time with a man she believes to be a serial killer. Why didn't Ms. Dagner become a member of LE 30 years ago? She would have made a wonderful detective.

PS Thanks, Christine, for the updated link!

[Taximom]

Here's the link to a story from yesterday's Detroit Free Press:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070328/NEWS03/70328021/1009/NEWS07

And here's a quote from the article:

Parma Heights Police Detective Steve Scharschmidt said Lawson said he felt Lamborgine "could be involved."

Sources said Lamborgine has since failed a polygraph test and DNA results are pending.

In the Oakland County child killer case, investigators have a piece of evidence - a single hair taken from one of the victims - that they believe belongs to the killer. Over the years, authorities have tested the hair sample against the DNA of several suspects but to no avail.

Life in prison for Lamborgine:

http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp?S=6405176

[Richard]

Parma, OH - The Ohio man pleaded guilty to raping three underage boys in Michigan. Ted Lamborgine was sentenced to three life sentences for the 15 sex-related charges.

The 66-year-old says he never forced himself on the boys - but he did pay them for the sex acts. Some of the victims were as young as 11.

------------------------------

No mention, however, of evidence connecting Lamborgine to the Babysitter killings.

[Rle7]

Advances in DNA technology are opening up new leads in the more than three-decade-old Oakland County child killer case.

Michigan State Police Detective Sgt. Garry Gray says investigators have found new evidence from clothing belonging to one or more of the four children slain over a 13-month period beginning in 1976.

Gray would not give more details about the new evidence, but says it is in addition to a hair sample taken off one of the victims.

The new sample will be compared to DNA of 12 primary suspects.

"Some (of the suspects) are dead. Some are free and some are in the slammer," Gray said. "Some aren't even remotely suspects now, but we'll check anyway. It's not that they are cleared. It means what we used before just didn't match."

One suspect who has not been cleared is Ted Lamborgine of Parma Heights, Ohio.

http://www.woodtv.com/global/story.asp?s=6974240

[Angie4b1g]

I was born in 1970 and grew up in Royal Oak, so needless to say, I remember this WELL. We weren't even allowed outside for fear we'd be grabbed. It really had an impact on me.

[palmerk]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/14369255/detail.html

[hoppyfrog]

From http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/14369255/detail.html

For the first time in a 30-year investigation, a civil lawsuit has been filed by the family of a child who died at the hands of who police call the Oakland County Child Killer.


The wrongful death lawsuit names Ted Lamborgine, 65, as one of the group who collectively raped and murdered several children in the '70s and '80s.

The family of Mark Stebbins, one of the children slain, filed the lawsuit against Lamborgine.


"The police have the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. In a civil lawsuit, we don't have that same burden. Ours is more likely than not," said David Brinkley. "Under the circumstances, we believe we can utilize techniques a civil lawsuit permits and we believe we could perhaps push the investigation a little further."

The new suit will give attorneys new subpoena powers against Lamborgine and others that may have information about the case.


The Stebbins family is not seeking monetary damages. They said they are only filing the lawsuit to help in the investigation to get everyone responsible in jail.

more at link