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smellsarat
01-22-2005, 10:03 PM
Anyone watch this tonight??? Wadda ya think??/ I dunno seems like they have really slim evidence to me...he is going to get a new trial.......I dunno it's one thing for Scott to kill his child within his wife.s' body..but for this guy to kill his two kids....I dunno...hard to believe..but the first set of jurors certainly did.............:behindbar

WordsofWisdom
01-22-2005, 10:06 PM
Yeah- just watched it..

The blood spatter on his shirt and shoes seems to be the major piece of evidence. The motive? He molested his daughter and his wife found out~ game over. As a trooper his life was over anyway, he had nothing to lose at that point.

cecilia
01-22-2005, 10:40 PM
Yeah- just watched it..

The blood spatter on his shirt and shoes seems to be the major piece of evidence. The motive? He molested his daughter and his wife found out~ game over. As a trooper his life was over anyway, he had nothing to lose at that point.

No question --- hope they put him away for good next time -- so sad for the victim's family to have to go through it again -- interesting that the jurors had trouble believing he could kill his children even with all the evidence and the parade of affairs --

WordsofWisdom
01-22-2005, 10:50 PM
I did miss one thing though- can you fill me in?

WHEN QUESTIONING A JUROR (WOMAN) SHE WAS AN NG IN THE BEGINNING- SOMETHING WAS SAID (BY THE DEFENDANT?) THAT PUSHED HER OVER THE LINE.. WHAT WAS IT?

Sorry about the caps.. hit the wrong key- too lazy to change.

cecilia
01-22-2005, 10:58 PM
I did miss one thing though- can you fill me in?

WHEN QUESTIONING A JUROR (WOMAN) SHE WAS AN NG IN THE BEGINNING- SOMETHING WAS SAID (BY THE DEFENDANT?) THAT PUSHED HER OVER THE LINE.. WHAT WAS IT?

Sorry about the caps.. hit the wrong key- too lazy to change.

If you mean the middle-aged juror with the red-hair, she was actually convinced by another juror she trusted, who said they'd stake their own life and their own daughters life that Cam was guilty -- she gave in to guilty based on that.

WordsofWisdom
01-22-2005, 11:15 PM
If you mean the middle-aged juror with the red-hair, she was actually convinced by another juror she trusted, who said they'd stake their own life and their own daughters life that Cam was guilty -- she gave in to guilty based on that.

Yeah..that's the ticket!
Thanks! :)

smellsarat
01-23-2005, 12:38 AM
Yeah but you are assuming that he did molest the girl yet they said he would have molested her just before he killed her.....I guess if the wife caught him??? but didn't seem to be enough time ...and if she suspected it before why not show something to the family that there was something troubling her........I dunno...yet the basketball players all said he skipped one of the games...sounds like he set the whole thing up.............:waitasec:

yadler
01-23-2005, 05:09 AM
Anyone watch this tonight??? Wadda ya think??/ I dunno seems like they have really slim evidence to me...he is going to get a new trial.......I dunno it's one thing for Scott to kill his child within his wife.s' body..but for this guy to kill his two kids....I dunno...hard to believe..but the first set of jurors certainly did.............:behindbar
I watched it. Slim evidence? The little girl had defintely been molested and the defense wants all of that expunged from the next trial.. And the one hour descrepancy because of the time zone? And as with Peterson, who else could have done it.

smellsarat
01-23-2005, 11:48 AM
I watched it. Slim evidence? The little girl had defintely been molested and the defense wants all of that expunged from the next trial.. And the one hour descrepancy because of the time zone? And as with Peterson, who else could have done it.
Was it proven that he molested the child???

yadler
01-23-2005, 11:52 AM
Was it proven that he molested the child???

What do you mean by "proven?" It was the medical examiner's sworn testimony at trial.

WordsofWisdom
01-23-2005, 11:57 AM
Was it proven that he molested the child???

The child was molested in my opinion- based on what I heard on this show.
The child was of an age where she would have limited social engagements- or at least not without her parents KNOWING who she had been with- if not with them. The child was old enough to tell someone, and perhaps she did.

Is the Defense saying that she wasn't molested?
Or are they just saying that HE didn't molest her?
I may have missed that part.

yadler
01-23-2005, 12:01 PM
At the conclusion of the TV show, it was stated that the defense wants the molestation of the daughter kept out of the second trial. That just about says it all as far as I am concerned.

WordsofWisdom
01-23-2005, 12:06 PM
At the conclusion of the TV show, it was stated that the defense wants the molestation of the daughter kept out of the second trial. That just about says it all as far as I am concerned.

Even though it wasn't proven that HE molested the child, I agree with Yadler...it certainly takes it to the Probable side.

smellsarat
01-23-2005, 12:10 PM
What I am asking is if it was proven that HE alone was the molester...they said she would have had to be molested just before she was killed............

WordsofWisdom
01-23-2005, 12:34 PM
What I am asking is if it was proven that HE alone was the molester...they said she would have had to be molested just before she was killed............

I don't think they did prove that.
But didn't the Coroner say that it could have been HOURS before?
PLUS the grandmother said she had noticed this before.

Marthatex
01-23-2005, 12:35 PM
I started watching it and then it made me too sick. I saw him crying though and it seemed fake. Womens' intuition.

yadler
01-23-2005, 01:30 PM
What I am asking is if it was proven that HE alone was the molester...they said she would have had to be molested just before she was killed............
You have to examine the time-line. The phone records indicated a phone call coming from the house at 7:16 yet, upon examination, it was discovered that because of the time zone change, that should have been recorded as 6:16. A little bit of digital (?) rape, the wife finds out, he does the deed and is on the basketball court just in the for the game to start.

yadler
01-23-2005, 01:32 PM
He sure has befed up in prison, hasn't he? I am so glad that the prison facilities allow him the opportunity of muscularizing his upper body.

Lauren
01-23-2005, 01:42 PM
Dang. I missed it... :cool:

WordsofWisdom
01-23-2005, 03:10 PM
VERY good article about this.

They arrived quickly and Camm told them that he had found his son strapped into the car in the garage and had tried to revive him before he realized the entire family was dead. But there was nothing at the scene to indicate that Camm had indeed been near his son.

VERY good article about this. (http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/fathers_who_kill/7.html?sect=19)

smellsarat
01-24-2005, 01:27 PM
VERY good article about this.

They arrived quickly and Camm told them that he had found his son strapped into the car in the garage and had tried to revive him before he realized the entire family was dead. But there was nothing at the scene to indicate that Camm had indeed been near his son.

VERY good article about this. (http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/fathers_who_kill/7.html?sect=19)
Thanks WOW..that article mentions a lot of insurance...and some only two months before the murders...I don't think that was mentioned on 48 HRS...interesting...It will be interesting when he is re-tried...........

Newswolf
01-24-2005, 07:21 PM
I've been following this one too. Camm has a hearing Wed. asking to be released from jail till he is retried. The pros. has said he has new evidence in the case, supposedly an admission of guilt to someone unspecified.

http://www.news-tribune.net/articles/2004/11/16/news/new_albany_tribune/news01.txt

Floyd County Prosecutor Keith Henderson announced yesterday that he will retry the case based on new information and a confidential informant who has come forward. Henderson made the announcement yesterday afternoon amid a crowd of reporters and many of Camm's family members.

http://www.news-tribune.net/articles/2004/11/17/news/new_albany_tribune/news08.txt

Floyd County Prosecutor Keith Henderson filed an amended probable cause affidavit that, among other things, points to possible molestation of Jill Camm as a motive. The affidavit states that the young girl had "blunt trauma to the vagina that was consistent with sexual molestation." Indiana State Police Det. Gary Gilbert, lead investigator in the case, also stated in the affidavit that he interviewed a medical expert who advised that she studied Jill's autopsy "and came to the conclusion that the trauma to Jill Camm's vaginal area is consistent with" sexual abuse.

Gilbert also stated numerous sexual devices were found in the master bedroom of the Camm home. He also stated that a cover was found on David Camm's bed in the master bedroom that had sperm of David Camm and body fluids from Jill Camm.

The affidavit also speaks to a confidential informant in the investigation. Henderson did not give many details on the informant, other than it was someone who had recently spoken to investigators. In the affidavit, Gilbert stated that "During my investigation, I received information from a confidential informant that advised me that David Camm told him that Camm shot and killed his wife and two children."

~~~~~~~~~

The defense filed discovery motions today arguing that the pros. failed to disclose the name of that witness and other things. I'll post a link when I locate it.

Newswolf
01-25-2005, 07:49 PM
The DA just made a smart move.

http://www.thelouisvillechannel.com/news/4129566/detail.html

The prosecutor in the David Camm case decided to take a confidential informant off of his witness list for the time being.
The decision comes just one day before a hearing that will decide if Camm is eligible for bail.
The informant claims Camm, a former Indiana state trooper, admitted to killing his wife and two children.

~
Camm's attorney said Floyd County Prosecutor Keith Henderson is taking the informant off the table to prevent them from investigating the person's claims.
Henderson said this is a legit maneuver to protect his case and his witness.

Newswolf
01-27-2005, 10:54 AM
I can't believe he gets released till the retrial!!

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/10744255.htm

A former Indiana state trooper who was expected to be retried on charges of murdering his wife and two young children is eligible to be released from jail on a $20,000 cash bond, a judge ruled.
Katharine Liell, one of David Camm's lawyers, said the bond should be posted and arrangements made for his release from the Floyd County Jail within a couple of days.
Camm sat quietly with his lawyers when Warrick Superior Court Judge Robert Aylsworth announced his decision during a hearing Wednesday. Aylsworth also scheduled Camm's retrial for Aug. 8 through Sept. 9.

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050127/NEWS01/301270001

Lockhart said he and Camm want to find the murderer.
He also said he would be willing to post bond for his nephew. He said that he had $10,000 available and that he might be able to find $20,000, though "it will be pushing it."
There also were extensive arguments at yesterday's hearing about the timing of a phone call that was made from Camm's house the night of the murders.

Newswolf
01-27-2005, 05:19 PM
He's been released.

http://www.whas11.com/topstories/stories/WHAS11_TOP_CammReleased.4d6f2bf6.html

“We were glad we were able to get this done today, but if not, we would have waited another day if we had to,” says Sam Lockhart. “I anticipate his first night at home will be a quiet one with just the family. We all have to get used to each other, because David’s been locked up for four years.”

nanandjim
02-01-2005, 04:57 PM
If you mean the middle-aged juror with the red-hair, she was actually convinced by another juror she trusted, who said they'd stake their own life and their own daughters life that Cam was guilty -- she gave in to guilty based on that.
If my memory serves me, the juror wasn't convinced with the high velocity blood spatter evidence on the shirt. The other juror that she came to trust was very convinced with the evidence. He was so convinced that he said that he would stake his own daughter's life that it was accurate. That convinced her to switch her vote.

I think that David Camm was certainly clever in the murders, but I believe that he definitely did it. I think that he was molesting his daughter. The cops say they have even more proof that he was molesting the girl. However, his attorneys are fighting to keep the molestation allegations out of the trial.

Plus, I can't believe the conviction was overturned because evidence of his adultery was allowed into testimony. So what? That goes to show you what kind of guy he is.

When I watched this show, that sister screaming loudly about how is was wrongly convicted reminded me of Janey Peterson.

Newswolf
02-04-2005, 07:47 PM
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=2893731

There's another twist in the triple murder case of David Camm. Floyd County Prosecutor Keith Henderson wants the Warrick County judge off the case. He believes the defense has a special connection to the judge and cites Camm's $20,000 bond as proof.

Newswolf
02-08-2005, 10:17 AM
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050208/NEWS02/502080346

The judge handling the retrial of former Indiana state trooper David Camm in the killing of his wife and their two young children has issued a gag order to lawyers and others involved in the case.
The order, issued yesterday by Warrick Superior Court Judge Robert Aylsworth, prohibits out-of-court comments by Camm, his lawyers, the prosecutor and their "agents" until a jury reaches a verdict -- or the court lifts the order.
Aylsworth says the order is intended to protect potential jurors from pretrial publicity that could influence their views.

Newswolf
02-09-2005, 04:28 PM
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=2924120

Defense attorneys for David Camm scored two victories Wednesday. Warrick County Judge Robert Aylsworth denied the prosecution's motion from the get-go to move the hearing to another day so they could present witnesses and provide testimony.
The judge also denied the prosecution's motion asking the judge to recuse himself from the case.

smellsarat
02-09-2005, 04:46 PM
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=2924120

Defense attorneys for David Camm scored two victories Wednesday. Warrick County Judge Robert Aylsworth denied the prosecution's motion from the get-go to move the hearing to another day so they could present witnesses and provide testimony.
The judge also denied the prosecution's motion asking the judge to recuse himself from the case.
Boy, they are bending over backward for this guy...sounds like the next Peterson type case.........:waitasec:

Newswolf
02-09-2005, 04:51 PM
I am surprised the judge didn't remove himself since there is even the suggestion of impropriety . I'm afraid Camm will get off this round.

nanandjim
02-11-2005, 12:32 PM
I am surprised the judge didn't remove himself since there is even the suggestion of impropriety . I'm afraid Camm will get off this round.
I hope that you are wrong about him getting away with this. It does sound like the judge is bending over backwards for Camm. I think that I heard the defense is going to fight having information on the daughter's molestation admitted at trial. That would take away a clear motive if this evidence is prohibited.

Goody
02-17-2005, 12:26 AM
Gilbert also stated numerous sexual devices were found in the master bedroom of the Camm home. He also stated that a cover was found on David Camm's bed in the master bedroom that had sperm of David Camm and body fluids from Jill Camm.
Maybe it was purposely made to look like a molestation to take the focus OFF of the father. If so, it sounds like that backfired big time.

Goody
02-17-2005, 12:31 AM
I am surprised the judge didn't remove himself since there is even the suggestion of impropriety . I'm afraid Camm will get off this round.
It is not usually considered to be a conflict of interest because the judge may have/had a business or sometimes even a personal relationship with one of the attys involved in the case. I suppose if one could prove a bias, it might go somewhere. I think the state is just going to have to work harder on this one. Besides, it is the jury the state has to convince, not the judge.

Newswolf
02-28-2005, 06:47 PM
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050228/NEWS02/502280346

The DNA on a sweat shirt found at the murder scene in the case of former Indiana State Trooper David Camm has been identified as that of a man convicted of armed robbery and criminal confinement in Indiana in 1993.
The man was released from state prison in June 2000, roughly three months before Camm's wife and two children were killed in the family's garage, according to Indiana Department of Correction documents.
~~~~~~~~~~~
According to one person familiar with the case, former Floyd County Prosecutor Stan Faith, the man has told police that he gave the sweat shirt to the Salvation Army after being released from prison. Thus, Faith said, he does not believe the man is a suspect.

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3009734&nav=0RZFWug1

Reed says DNA evidence will stick on clothing for an undetermined amount of time.
Boney told WAVE 3 he dropped the unwashed sweatshirt off at the Salvation Army three months before the murders.
The charity admits it doesn't wash the clothing it receives.

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3005735&nav=0RZFWshq

"Dave Camm could not have killed his family," said his uncle, Sam Lockhart. "He didn't do it, and we've been asking all along, all along, for the state to look at that unknown DNA, because we know that was the key to this case. We knew it."
Charles Boney remains a free man and sources tell us the prosecution hasn't found any holes in his story.
~~~~

Another strange twist.


Goody I think the extremely low bail for a man who was convicted of triple homicide indicates a bias IMHO.

smellsarat
02-28-2005, 07:10 PM
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050228/NEWS02/502280346

The DNA on a sweat shirt found at the murder scene in the case of former Indiana State Trooper David Camm has been identified as that of a man convicted of armed robbery and criminal confinement in Indiana in 1993.
The man was released from state prison in June 2000, roughly three months before Camm's wife and two children were killed in the family's garage, according to Indiana Department of Correction documents.
~~~~~~~~~~~
According to one person familiar with the case, former Floyd County Prosecutor Stan Faith, the man has told police that he gave the sweat shirt to the Salvation Army after being released from prison. Thus, Faith said, he does not believe the man is a suspect.

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3009734&nav=0RZFWug1

Reed says DNA evidence will stick on clothing for an undetermined amount of time.
Boney told WAVE 3 he dropped the unwashed sweatshirt off at the Salvation Army three months before the murders.
The charity admits it doesn't wash the clothing it receives.

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3005735&nav=0RZFWshq

"Dave Camm could not have killed his family," said his uncle, Sam Lockhart. "He didn't do it, and we've been asking all along, all along, for the state to look at that unknown DNA, because we know that was the key to this case. We knew it."
Charles Boney remains a free man and sources tell us the prosecution hasn't found any holes in his story.
~~~~

Another strange twist.


Goody I think the extremely low bail for a man who was convicted of triple homicide indicates a bias IMHO.
Boy that sure adds up to reasonable doubt unless there is an explanation for it being there????:confused:

Newswolf
03-01-2005, 11:49 AM
Long article- suggests Camm may have planted the sweatshirt. Or been in cahoots with someone. This does muddy things.

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050301/NEWS02/503010350

Floyd County, Ind., Prosecutor Keith Henderson said yesterday that he will proceed with the murder case against former Indiana State Trooper David Camm, even though a sweat shirt found at the crime scene has now been linked to a violent offender.
"This has not changed my opinion of who is culpable," Henderson said at a news conference yesterday. "That is David Camm."
He said there is no evidence to link Charles D. Boney, whose DNA was identified on the sweat shirt, to the 2000 murders of Camm's wife and two young children.
But there is physical evidence -- tiny bloodstains on the T-shirt Camm was wearing the night of the murders -- placing him within four feet of his daughter when she was shot to death, Henderson said.
The prosecutor held the news conference to respond to a court motion filed yesterday by Camm's lawyers seeking an arrest warrant for Boney and a search warrant for his home.
Warrick Superior Court Judge Robert Aylsworth, who is presiding over the case, denied the motion in a telephone conference yesterday morning, Henderson said.

Goody
03-01-2005, 01:44 PM
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050228/NEWS02/502280346

The DNA on a sweat shirt found at the murder scene in the case of former Indiana State Trooper David Camm has been identified as that of a man convicted of armed robbery and criminal confinement in Indiana in 1993.
The man was released from state prison in June 2000, roughly three months before Camm's wife and two children were killed in the family's garage, according to Indiana Department of Correction documents.
~~~~~~~~~~~
According to one person familiar with the case, former Floyd County Prosecutor Stan Faith, the man has told police that he gave the sweat shirt to the Salvation Army after being released from prison. Thus, Faith said, he does not believe the man is a suspect.
If the state can show that the Camm's or someone close to them (like grandparents maybe) shopped at Salvation Army and purchased it, that would certainly take care of the sweat shirt evidence.




Goody I think the extremely low bail for a man who was convicted of triple homicide indicates a bias IMHO.
That is a good point. If the state can challenge it to an unbiased superior, the judge might have to recuse himself just to avoid the appearance of something amiss. I am wondering though about why an appellate court would find adultery to be prejudicial when it is commonly used to show a defendant's motive, state of mind, etc. Seems like all the way up the Totem Pole something is out of whack.

smellsarat
03-01-2005, 02:03 PM
Gooody Quote[That is a good point. If the state can challenge it to an unbiased superior, the judge might have to recuse himself just to avoid the appearance of something amiss. I am wondering though about why an appellate court would find adultery to be prejudicial when it is commonly used to show a defendant's motive, state of mind, etc. Seems like all the way up the Totem Pole something is out of whack]quote


Reminds me of Cady Condit protesting how all anyone talks about is Sex when it comes to her Dad and Chandra Levy....yeah Cady that's what the whole reason is for pointing the finger at your "dirty dad":razz:

Goody
03-01-2005, 02:05 PM
Long article- suggests Camm may have planted the sweatshirt. Or been in cahoots with someone. This does muddy things.


Camm was a state trooper and would have known about processing evidence. Killers do not normally leave their shirts behind, maybe a jacket. This evidence feels planted to me. Not saying Camm is guilty because I have no opinion on that, but the article does go on to say that Camm's wife was known to donate to the Salvation Army and get things from them. So it doesn't sound like it would be all that unusual that she might have gotten the shirt, maybe even as a joke for her cop husband.

BTW, where is New Albany in relation to the town this crime occurred in? How far away is Louisville?

yadler
03-01-2005, 02:40 PM
Donating a sweat shirt to a thrift store beggers the imagination. Picking up/paying for a used one at said thrift shop is equally unimaginable. LE has its work cut out for them.

Newswolf
03-01-2005, 05:53 PM
Goody, I agree with you about the adultery issue being germane. The decision to overturn the conviction was shocking. New Albany is right across the Ohio River from Louisville, 2 minutes across the bridge.

The ex-con does claim that it was his "prison clothes" that he gave to the Salvation Army so I can see how that might be the case re: the sweat shirt.

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3010211&nav=0RZFWuvB

Now, nearly two years after he was found guilty, the DNA match with Charles Boney to a sweatshirt found at the murder scene gives Camm's sister, Julie Houge, hope others will follow. "They've tried and tried to put that sweatshirt in Dave's hands. There is absolutely none of Dave's DNA on that sweatshirt."

On the other side, Nick Stein, an attorney for Kim Camm's family, downplayed the latest development, saying "the sweatshirt is of minimal significance."


http://www.news-tribune.net/articles/2005/03/01/news/new_albany_tribune/news03.txt

"We do know his T-shirt said he was four feet from Jill at the exact moment a bullet passed through her skull and created high velocity impact (blood) splatter on his T-shirt and a cone around her head in the bronco that matches," Faith said.

Henderson said he believes the crime scene was all for show.

"I think the entire scene was staged and I think the shirt was part of it," Henderson said. "The investigators sensed when they examined it that the scene was too clean."

A stain on the sweatshirt also contains unidentified female DNA Henderson said.

~

Jill's 10th birthday was yesterday according to the article.

Newswolf
03-01-2005, 11:08 PM
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3010211

Kim Camm's family hopes to hold a news conference in the next day or two after further consulting with prosecutors about the case. But Stein says they still believe "100 percent that David Camm is the killer."

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3013275

"Mr. Boney's going to come out of jail, go to somebody's house in Georgetown, brutally murder three people and they say 'Oh, I think I'll take off my sweatshirt that I got from DOC (Department of Corrections) and lay it down here by the boy.'"
"Does that make sense to anyone?" asked Steve Owen, Chief Deputy Prosecutor for Floyd County. "Because it doesn't make sense to me."
However, Owen suggested another scenario that does make sense. "It does make sense that somebody who killed those people thought 'Hey, I got a sweatshirt that don't belong to me and I know that don't belong to me,' and roll that sweatshirt up and lay it by his boy's side. Now that makes sense," Owen said.

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3010548

Boney admits his past doesn't look good. When I pointed out that there are issues with shoes that are unexplained in the Camm case from the crime scene where his sweatshirt was found, he said it was the first he has heard of about it.
I asked if he was worried about that aspect of the case and he said, "not at all."
Kim Camm's shoes were found on top of the Ford Bronco the night of the murders. There were also injuries to the top of her feet. Investigators have always been puzzled by both facts.
Boney says there's no connection to his shoe crimes and the Camm case. He says the incidents involving him taking womens' shoes were part of "a fraternity prank. It was stupid. I can't even put into words what it was."
Boney denies having a shoe fetish.

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3015135&nav=0RZFWxcD

Boney claims no connection to the Camm family, but they had several opportunities to cross paths, dating back to high school.
Boney wrestled at New Albany High School in 1987. At the time, he went by Darnell. Among his 240 classmates was Danny Camm -- David's younger brother.

~

I do not know what to think except wait to hear the evidence.

smellsarat
03-02-2005, 12:18 AM
Oh Boy...the coincidences are stacking up aren't they??....and the shoe thing...weird and puzzling and he just so happens to have a shoe thing!!!:eek:

I dunno this sounds like a case for Columbo!!!

nanandjim
03-02-2005, 09:37 AM
Okay, if the convict did it, what was his motive? It doesn't appear that anything was missing from the home. So, robbery is not a motive. Also, the gun used (38 caliber, I believe) is the same caliber that police use. Did the convict own a 38-caliber gun?

I still think David Camm committed this crime and staged everything afterwards. He definitely would know how to do that. I personally think the high velocity blood on his shirt and shoes are the key to this whole thing.

kato
03-02-2005, 09:51 AM
Oh Boy...the coincidences are stacking up aren't they??....and the shoe thing...weird and puzzling and he just so happens to have a shoe thing!!!:eek:

I dunno this sounds like a case for Columbo!!!

LOL Or a case for Monk.

smellsarat
03-02-2005, 12:39 PM
LOL Or a case for Monk.
Only Monk would'nt touch the sweatshirt!!!

kato
03-02-2005, 12:42 PM
Only Monk would'nt touch the sweatshirt!!!

LOL You got that right! My BF hates Monk.

Newswolf
03-05-2005, 01:40 PM
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3034945

Police in southern Indiana have arrested a second man in the murders of Kim, Brad and Jill Camm.
Charles Boney was arrested overnight and is now in the Floyd County jail, charged with three counts of murder, possession of a handgun by a convicted felon, and being habitual offender.

~~
Floyd County Prosecutor Keith Henderson is not commenting at this time about Boney's arrest.
Boney is now charged, along with former Indiana State Police Trooper David Camm, who was the husband of Kim Camm and the father of Jill and Brad.
~~~~~

Developing. I don't know what to make of this!

smellsarat
03-05-2005, 02:30 PM
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3034945

Police in southern Indiana have arrested a second man in the murders of Kim, Brad and Jill Camm.
Charles Boney was arrested overnight and is now in the Floyd County jail, charged with three counts of murder, possession of a handgun by a convicted felon, and being habitual offender.

~~
Floyd County Prosecutor Keith Henderson is not commenting at this time about Boney's arrest.
Boney is now charged, along with former Indiana State Police Trooper David Camm, who was the husband of Kim Camm and the father of Jill and Brad.
~~~~~

Developing. I don't know what to make of this!

So are they implying they acted in concert or just can't make up their minds which one did it????

Newswolf
03-05-2005, 02:40 PM
Smells, beats me. I know the DA is gagged on Camm, but he isn't on Boney, yet. I'm hoping he will make some statement about this arrest. Boney will likely be arraigned Monday - that's usually what happens with weekend arrests, so maybe we'll learn more by Mon. It certainly is a strange case.

nanandjim
03-05-2005, 03:33 PM
So are they implying they acted in concert or just can't make up their minds which one did it????
I'm confused. If Boney was involved, I hope that he makes a deal. I certainly do not want Camm getting away with this crime.

Newswolf
03-05-2005, 08:12 PM
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IN_FAMILY_KILLED_INOL-?SITE=KYLOU&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

More scientific evidence developed by investigators this week linked Boney to the homicide, Henderson said at a news conference Saturday. Henderson declined to say what sort of evidence.
"The investigation is at a very sensitive stage," he said. "That's why I won't be answering questions at this time."

~~~

The new evidence is THOUGHT to be fingerprints at the scene.

smellsarat
03-05-2005, 10:12 PM
Oh geez.do you think maybe he didn't do it???:confused:

Newswolf
03-06-2005, 11:23 AM
I don't see how Camm had the blood spatter spray on his tee unless he was the shooter. I still believe the apparent molestationn of Jill spurred the murders and that points to Camm. But we need more info!

~~~
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050306/NEWS02/503060413

Henderson had said last Monday that there was no evidence Boney was involved in the murders, though he added that investigators continued to interview him as a witness.
During the week, however, investigators checked unidentified fingerprints found at the murder scene against Boney's prints.
~~
He said nothing about whether the charges against Camm would continue to be pursued.
In a brief phone conversation yesterday, Camm declined to comment.

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050306/NEWS02/503060451

But Mike McDaniel, Camm's lawyer in the first trial, said he asked then-prosecutor Stan Faith to check the DNA against state and federal databanks and was told that no matches were found. Faith later said he also believes it was tested and no matches were found
McDaniel said Boney's DNA probably wasn't in the databanks at the time because the state was running well behind on entering the information from convicts into computers.

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050306/NEWS02/503060450

The decision to charge a second person in the Camm murder case surprised some people in Floyd County yesterday, but it didn't necessarily persuade them of David Camm's innocence.

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050306/NEWS02/503060446
Details of Boney's life, including his criminal background, began emerging last week through interviews and court records.
Boney's first conviction came after a 1989 arrest for robbery for forcibly taking shoes from three young women in Bloomington, Ind. In some cases, the women were knocked down and punched.
Boney said last week that he took the shoes as a prank while he was an Indiana University student.

smellsarat
03-06-2005, 07:47 PM
The "shoe" coincidence is so weird................:confused:

Newswolf
03-07-2005, 04:36 PM
http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/rss/11073904.htm

A Kentucky man will be arraigned Wednesday in the slayings of a former Indiana state trooper's wife and two children, but prosecutors still have not said what led them to arrest Charles Boney.
The 35-year-old ex-convict from Louisville was in court Monday when Floyd County prosecutor Keith Henderson said investigators needed until Wednesday to wrap up their investigation into the September 2000 shooting deaths of Kimberly Camm, 36, and her two children, Bradley, 7, and Jill, 5.

~~

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050307/NEWS02/503070373/1025

When former Indiana state trooper David Camm's wife and their two small children were found shot to death in September 2000, the shirt was under the body of 7-year-old Bradley Camm, said Stan Faith, who was the Floyd County prosecutor at the time.

The shirt was placed in a body bag with Bradley's body and found at the autopsy a day or two later, Faith said.

smellsarat
03-07-2005, 05:58 PM
And the cops make no comment on what the heck is going on...........????

Very intriguing case I must say!!!:waitasec:

Newswolf
03-08-2005, 01:06 AM
It appears they have found some way to connect Camm & Boney

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3042770

The biggest news to come out of Floyd County Monday was that the case against David Camm will stand.
"The case will continue," said Floyd County Prosecutor Keith Henderson. "I think it's fair to say that as of Wednesday, after the formal charges are issued, Mr. Boney will now be a co-defendant."

http://www.thelouisvillechannel.com/davidcamm/4261491/detail.html

~In the 1980s, Boney was a classmate of David Camm's younger brother, Danny Camm, both in middle school and high school, WLKY NewsChannel 32's Andy Alcock reported Monday.
"The closest family member that I've ever encountered was David Camm's younger brother, which was Danny Camm," Boney told WLKY last week. "I went to school and graduated with him in 1987 from New Albany."
~~Danny Camm also drew up an insurance policy for his older brother shortly before David Camm's wife and children were found shot to death.

smellsarat
03-08-2005, 06:14 PM
Thanks for keeping us up to speed Newswolf!!!:clap: Do you think the CTV and Fox and Abrams shows will start looking at this case??? I know 48 HRS did a show on it but they rarely follow up on those shows...........

Newswolf
03-09-2005, 01:40 AM
Smells- to me it's a whole new story now and ripe for the plucking. I'd be surprised if there were not follow ups and at least a book or two.

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3048430&nav=0RZEXEwP

WAVE 3 has learned that investigators searched another home on Oak Street Tuesday morning -- the home where Boney and his estranged wife once lived.
Sources said Tuesday that investigators were looking for "trophies" Boney may have kept from the murders of the Camm family.
Uof L Psychology Professor Dr. Ronald Holmes says it's not unusual for criminals to collect such trophies. "A lot of times, the police find it's reported as a burglary, but when you start looking at what was taken, it takes on a sexual overtone to it."

Newswolf
03-09-2005, 03:12 PM
Good Golly Molly, I am floored.


http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050309/NEWS/50309007

All charges against former Indiana state trooper David Camm were dismissed today at the request of Floyd County Prosecutor Keith Henderson.
~
Henderson's motion to dismiss said only that the dismissal "would be in the best interests of justice."

According to court records, Camm has been taken off home incarceration and a $20,000 cash bond has been released.
The charges against Camm were dismissed "without prejudice," meaning they could be refiled.

Newswolf
03-09-2005, 04:36 PM
Wow, twists and turns and the plot thickens

http://www.thelouisvillechannel.com/davidcamm/4268868/detail.html

Moments after David Camm's murder charges were dropped, prosecutors charged him all over again for killing his wife and their two small children.
Floyd County Prosecutor Keith Henderson announced at about 1:30 p.m. Wednesday that charges against Camm were dropped without prejudice, meaning he could be arrested again for the crimes. And at about 2 p.m., WLKY NewsChannel 32's Allison Gardner reported that the charges were filed again, perhaps in an effort to bring the case back to Floyd County. Camm was scheduled to stand trial again in August, but in Warrick County, because of pretrial publicity.
~~
Gardner reported that Boney told investigators he met Camm while playing basketball in New Albany in the summer of 2000. The two became friendly, and when Camm learned of Boney's criminal past, he asked him if Boney could find a "clean gun," Henderson said. Boney delivered the gun, wrapped in the sweatshirt, to Camm's house, and returned once more, on the day of the shootings, Henderson said.
According to Boney's statement, he and Camm were inside Camm's house when Kim, Jill and Brad came home. Boney told investigators that Camm ran to the garage, and Boney heard gunshots. Boney came to the garage, and left his handprint on Camm's Ford Bronco when he leaned on it to look inside, Henderson said. Boney also answered a question investigators had by telling them he was the one who put Kim Camm's shoes on top of the Bronco....

smellsarat
03-09-2005, 08:05 PM
Un- believable.!!!!...no one would believe this if it were a book or a movie!!!:hand:

Newswolf
03-10-2005, 06:49 PM
http://www.thelouisvillechannel.com/davidcamm/4273425/detail.html

Thursday, Camm didn't say a word at his arraignment, and a judge entered a plea of not guilty on his behalf. Camm's attorneys said Henderson's request to drop the charges didn't include the part about re-filing them minutes later in another county.
"The problem is the prosecution was misleading," attorney David Mosley said. "(Henderson) filed a standard motion like when the wrong person has been charged, and based on that, we didn't reject."
Camm's brother, Donnie Camm, also said he thought the move was misleading.
"To dismiss it, and then we're happy and celebrating, then refile charges like that?" he said Thursday. "We didn't have any knowledge that that was going to happen. It's like getting punched in the stomach. It's the sleaziest thing I've ever seen."

http://www.wave3.com/global/link.asp?L=148844

Probable cause affidavit

yadler
03-10-2005, 06:57 PM
http://www.thelouisvillechannel.com/davidcamm/4273425/detail.html

Thursday, Camm didn't say a word at his arraignment, and a judge entered a plea of not guilty on his behalf. Camm's attorneys said Henderson's request to drop the charges didn't include the part about re-filing them minutes later in another county.
"The problem is the prosecution was misleading," attorney David Mosley said. "(Henderson) filed a standard motion like when the wrong person has been charged, and based on that, we didn't reject."
Camm's brother, Donnie Camm, also said he thought the move was misleading.
"To dismiss it, and then we're happy and celebrating, then refile charges like that?" he said Thursday. "We didn't have any knowledge that that was going to happen. It's like getting punched in the stomach. It's the sleaziest thing I've ever seen."

http://www.wave3.com/global/link.asp?L=148844

Probable cause affidavit

I would like to know why Camm wasn't carged with conspiracy in the original indictment? Wt, didn't the DA know what DNA (sweatshiert) was?

Newswolf
03-10-2005, 07:17 PM
Hi Yadler-The original Pros. said the DNA was checked but didn't match anything on file so they didn't know about Boney when Camm was first arrested in 2000. Boney's statements now allegedly confirm the conspiracy-along with the dna and his prints on the car. And it is that charge which could lead to the death penalty- DA says he hasn't decided on it yet. Camm appears to be the shooter because of the blood spatter on his tee,a drop of blood on his shoes, and gunpowder residue in the pocket of the pants he was wearing that day. (Probably TMI)

yadler
03-10-2005, 07:32 PM
OK. I was thinking of either incompetance or cover-up. As long as the DA has enough goods now, all forgiven!

Newswolf
03-10-2005, 08:39 PM
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3061028&nav=0RZEXLuG

~~The only thing out of David Camm's mouth Thursday was a sigh as he left the courtroom. In fact, he didn't even enter his own plea of guilty or not guilty to the charges against him, with the arraignment turning out to be less about who killed his family and more about which county has control over the case.
~~Floyd County Prosecutor Keith Henderson defended his actions. "On January 26, I did not know Charles Boney was going to be a co-defendant in this case. Once that happened and I developed the case and I filed it as a conspiracy, that's when I decided to join them together."
Henderson went on to explain that "to join those defendants, I had to join them in Floyd County."
While both sides stand by their arguments, they admit this case could set new legal precedents.
~~

smellsarat
03-12-2005, 12:51 AM
Wonder if Boney is going take a plea against Cam???

smellsarat
03-12-2005, 12:52 AM
To dismiss it, and then we're happy and celebrating, then refile charges like that?" he said Thursday. "We didn't have any knowledge that that was going to happen. It's like getting punched in the stomach. It's the sleaziest thing I've ever seen."


How about murdering your own wife and children???

nanandjim
03-12-2005, 09:19 AM
Wow, twists and turns and the plot thickens...
Thanks so much for keeping us updated! David Camm really thinks he is shrewd. Do you think that Boney finally talked because Camm was obviously setting him up, with the placement of the sweatshirt under his son's body? I can well imagine that detectives told Boney that he was going down for the crime, regardless. Boney may have made a deal after realizing all of the DNA evidence they had placing him in the home and at the crimescene. I just hope that Camm goes down for this crime.

yadler
03-12-2005, 09:49 AM
My gut reaction would be that he will sing like a canary for a really nice deal. That is/was the problem with the Blake case here in LA. Blake's co-conspirator has had an elaborate legal defense, paid for by Blake. From what I heard at the prelim, this man (Blake's handyman) killed her but, because he has taken the 5th Amendment, was not charged. He has continued to hold his own counsel and is a free man. Anyway, all that's besides the point. I am consvinced that, without an elaborate legal strategy, this co-conspirator will allow Camm to vacation behind bars for the rest of his life.

smellsarat
03-12-2005, 10:08 AM
And Blake has also been charged due to his singing voice !!!! Anything to shut him up!!:slap: LOL

yadler
03-12-2005, 10:14 AM
Blake's coconspirator is like a white elephant in this trial. The defense even went out of its way to show that the real killer's "to do list" items were part of Blake's daughter's re-building projects at her house. See the shovel there (photo) on the right? etc. It's all unbelievable and nothing can be done about it because the handyman has taken the 5th.

Newswolf
03-12-2005, 12:33 PM
Thanks so much for keeping us updated! David Camm really thinks he is shrewd. Do you think that Boney finally talked because Camm was obviously setting him up, with the placement of the sweatshirt under his son's body? I can well imagine that detectives told Boney that he was going down for the crime, regardless. Boney may have made a deal after realizing all of the DNA evidence they had placing him in the home and at the crimescene. I just hope that Camm goes down for this crime.

I think Boney may have caved once the prints came back as a match, from the car the victims were in. The prints, the DNA, the gun, the shoe fetish- bingo! Interesting - the DA says he offered no deals. And he may pursue charges against Camm's brother, who wrote up the insurance policies on Camm's wife and forged her name to them.

Here's the latest I can find:

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3064795&nav=0RZEXO5J

Prosecutor Keith Henderson declined to comment on the informants' pasts, but did tell WAVE 3's Carrie Harned off camera that he has not offered anyone a deal.

The state's Probable Cause Affidavit does include corroborating statements from Boney and one of the informants. Those statements were taken independent of one another.

The informant told investigators Camm said "The weapon he used in the crime was untraceable."

http://www.news-tribune.net/articles/2005/03/11/news/new_albany_tribune/news05.txt

The factor that changed the prosecution's case was the discovery of Boney's DNA on a sweatshirt found at the scene. Although the sweatshirt was tested in the original trial, nothing came of it at the time. "We swabbed that sweatshirt 90 times," Faith said. "We found two strands of DNA that belonged to an unknown female, we found a partial strand that was consistent with David Camm, we found Kim's blood, we found Brad's blood.... The one thing we did not find was that it was Boney's DNA."

That the sweatshirt had unknown DNA on it was not a surprise to the defense, Faith said. "The defense found unknown DNA right before the trial," he said. "The State Police were asked to check it, and it came back no hit. I found it surprising that the defense never took it up. It looks like that would have aided in their appeal."

The addition of Boney to the case and the new evidence leads Faith to believe that Henderson has new tools that Faith did not in the first trial. "The prosecution now has a stronger case," he said. "Evidence doesn't get much stronger than the high-velocity blood spatter that was found on Camm's T-shirt, but the addition of Boney has filled in a lot of the blanks.
~~
Camm is much scarier looking now than at the first trial. He has put on a lot of weight, and in striped jailhouse garb, is intimidating looking. I'm sorry that Kim's family has to endure another trial but hope they see justice served.

Kimmer
03-12-2005, 12:56 PM
hey all glad to see we are finally into this case here, just to give you a little more info I live about 10 minutes from where this all took place and from all that I have read on this newswolf has done a great job of keep everything up to date so far but there is much more to this case than you all know. I am also personal friiends of Kim Camms Brother in-law Greg Karem. If we can get section started on this case I will be glad to keep all informed and provide all the information that I can as this wild case progresses and just a little input that I know David is guilty and I know that from the inside..I will be able to share more later I am in a rush today and just tripped over this thread so see you all on monday.

Newswolf
03-12-2005, 01:07 PM
Kimmer- what a tease you are! LOL I'll be very interested to hear more from you!

smellsarat
03-12-2005, 02:36 PM
hey all glad to see we are finally into this case here, just to give you a little more info I live about 10 minutes from where this all took place and from all that I have read on this newswolf has done a great job of keep everything up to date so far but there is much more to this case than you all know. I am also personal friiends of Kim Camms Brother in-law Greg Karem. If we can get section started on this case I will be glad to keep all informed and provide all the information that I can as this wild case progresses and just a little input that I know David is guilty and I know that from the inside..I will be able to share more later I am in a rush today and just tripped over this thread so see you all on monday.
Me too Kimmer...how intriguing this case is...I think I may have found the new perp to put in my Smellsarat TV Box!!!

nanandjim
03-12-2005, 04:30 PM
...he may pursue charges against Camm's brother, who wrote up the insurance policies on Camm's wife and forged her name to them...
I was wondering what was going on with the brother. Is there a picture of him? Has he spoken out in David's defense? I didn't realize that he forged Kim's signature. :eek: I would say that he had complicity in this crime. They better charge him with something.

ETA: Surely, this brother knows what is going on. Maybe, they can threaten to throw the book at him and then make him a deal if he reveals what he knows. You can't tell me that this guy didn't know what was going on. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what is going to happen when a life insurance policy is increased and the signature is forged...

nanandjim
03-12-2005, 04:51 PM
Did you guys read that probable cause affidavit?? Sounds like they know everything!! This case definitely should be made into a movie.

Kimmer - Tell us as much as you can about this case! Is it Monday yet??

Newswolf
03-12-2005, 05:41 PM
I was wondering what was going on with the brother. Is there a picture of him? Has he spoken out in David's defense? I didn't realize that he forged Kim's signature. :eek: I would say that he had complicity in this crime. They better charge him with something.

ETA: Surely, this brother knows what is going on. Maybe, they can threaten to throw the book at him and then make him a deal if he reveals what he knows. You can't tell me that this guy didn't know what was going on. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what is going to happen when a life insurance policy is increased and the signature is forged...

I found this from another brother

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3060840

David Camm's brother, Donnie, says money wasn't a motive. "Dave and Kim earned over $100,000 a year, and Kim earned about 85% of that, so if money was his motivation, he'd have been much better off with her alive than dead."

~~

I can't find a photo though because the 2000 links have expired. Usually Camm's uncle Sam Lockhart speaks for the family. I remember during the first trial the family became very heated in comments, lashing out at the jury and others. Kimmer may know about this but the insurance money - and Camm asking about it 12 hours after the killings - seems highly suspect.

nanandjim
03-13-2005, 10:19 AM
...David Camm's brother, Donnie, says money wasn't a motive. "Dave and Kim earned over $100,000 a year, and Kim earned about 85% of that, so if money was his motivation, he'd have been much better off with her alive than dead."...
Seems to me money was a motive. If Kim were to leave him, he wouldn't have access to her earnings. He knew that she was leaving him. So, he increased the independent policy on her and was intent on collecting the policy from her work....like you said...12 hours after the homicides...

Doesn't that sound like money was first and foremost on this guy's mind???

I remember seeing his sister yelling after the verdict. She reminded me of Janey Peterson...Obnoxious...Wonder what she has to say now with all of these latest revelations... :rolleyes:

smellsarat
03-13-2005, 11:22 AM
Seems to me money was a motive. If Kim were to leave him, he wouldn't have access to her earnings. He knew that she was leaving him. So, he increased the independent policy on her and was intent on collecting the policy from her work....like you said...12 hours after the homicides...

Doesn't that sound like money was first and foremost on this guy's mind???

I remember seeing his sister yelling after the verdict. She reminded me of Janey Peterson...Obnoxious...Wonder what she has to say now with all of these latest revelations... :rolleyes:
Now that you mention it Nan...we haven't heard a peep from Janey Peterson in a looonnng time!!! And that's a good thing!!:)

jimmypage9129
03-14-2005, 07:46 PM
Hey guys, first timer here. I live just down the road from the Camm house. I've heard a few things that I'm not sure have been put out there by the media. I've heard from a reliable source that after Camm was sent away to the state pen., he carried on his affair with a former co-worker at the Sellersburg, IN state police post, which began prior to the murders. Apparently this lady was taking off work early and going up to visit Camm so often that she was eventually transferred to a SP post in Bloomington, IN. Interesting when you consider how Camm has presented himself as being a changed man and committed to fixing his relationship with his wife throught the first trial. Also, and I apologize if you all are already aware of this, Camm has an older daughter from a previous marriage. The rumor around town is that Henderson is trying to get her to testify against her father and that she was possibly sexually abused by him. That is just the word through the local grapevine. What is for sure is that this girl obviously doesn't have much love for her biological father b/c neither her face or voice was heard during the first trial. I actually know 2 of Camm's first cousins, both nice guys, just delusional. The family apparently refuses to face the reality, which isn't surprising. I will keep you all posted if I hear any more local dish on this.

Newswolf
03-14-2005, 07:57 PM
Welcome jimmypage- very interesting. I had no idea there was another daughter. Prior sexual abuse would be humdinger testimony. As for a girlfriend - she must like jailbirds . Is this a trooper ?? Or a different kind of employee?

nanandjim
03-14-2005, 08:05 PM
...I will keep you all posted if I hear any more local dish on this.
Welcome, jimmypage, and thanks for the info. Where there's smoke, there is usually fire. It would not surprise me at all if he molested another daughter. If this is the case, I surely hope that she has the courage to do what is right for the victims.

What have you heard about the forged insurance policy? I hope that they charge his brother. You can't tell me that he didn't know what was in store for at least the wife.

I am very surprised that Camm's extramarital affairs are not allowed to come into play. The affairs seem very relevant to me.

Juliana
03-14-2005, 10:56 PM
Thank you, Jimmypage! I always appreciate it when locals have the courage to post what they hear around town. It usually has a lot of truth to it, in one respect or another!

Take Care!

Newswolf
03-15-2005, 12:36 AM
Yo and Kimmer?? Where are you?? LOL thanks

jimmypage9129
03-15-2005, 10:01 AM
I cannot believe that it hasn't been put out there in the national media that Camm had an older daughter from a previous relationship. As a matter of fact, at one point when one of the ladies he had an affair with was testifying at the first trial, she testified that Camm said "it feels weird doing this b/c I have a daughter your age." I believe that girl was 23 at the time and Camm's biological daughter was 16. The girl in the testimony thought this sounded extremely odd and surmised that Camm was possibly having an inappropriate relationship with his older daughter. The reason you all have not heard about this other daughter is that the prosecution cannot put it out there b/c it would prejudice the jury (as we see already the IN Court of Appeals felt like the testimony from past mistresses was prejudicial). On a personal note, the guy that steam cleans my mother's carpet was one of the guys that Camm was playing basketball with that night. He insisted to my mom that "Dave" was at the gym the entire time. Someone asked about the lady at the SP post, I think she worked in the office and was not a trooper, but i'm not certain of that. As for the insurance policy, everybody in Georgetown, Floyds Knobs and the entire Kentuckiana region knew about that within a week of the killing. All I can tell you about Donnie Camm is that I see him from time to time in some hole in the wall bar in New Albany, IN on occasion. I've heard a few local people start speculating that Donnie was "complicit" and that possibly David's whole family knows the truth, but I don't necessarily believe that. What is crazy is that when that 48 hours special was aired, it made it look as though Camm might be innocent, or at least that there was plenty of reasonable doubt. Local people who knew the "whole story", including the personal stuff that could not be introduced into evidence, were outraged. The line on Keith Henderson is that he is a beast as a prosecutor and he is going to go after Donnie full steam. It will be interesting to see if Donnie will take the fall for his bro, unlike Mr. Boney. We will see if blood is thicker than water I suppose.

jimmypage9129
03-15-2005, 10:07 AM
homepages.ius.edu/VANDERSO/shawnpaper.html

Hey guys, go to this website and read the term paper by this student who did a paper about the Camm Appeal. This paper was written before the most recent revelations, so it will seem a little naive in character, but he alludes to this older daughter a time or two.

Newswolf
03-15-2005, 11:10 AM
Thanks Jimmyp, you're chock full of info. Your behind the scenes take is so interesting. Go hang out at that seedy bar some more LOL

I read the paper. The remark about requesting a sexual partner to shave and then "if I can do this without thinking I'm XXXXX a 6 year old" is chilling. The fallacy is that the writer thinks the prosecution has to show motive. Not true.

Am I remembering wrong or was there not some testimony from Kim's mother about Jill complaining of something that resulted in taking her to the doctor or was it that she thought maybe something was happening ? I can't remember the details.

I also believe the brother had knowledge -why else forge Kim's signature?

Also - I am glad it's not a trooper who is involved with Camm. I would have serious reservations about Indiana LE if that were the case!

Straightforward news accounts can't delve into the between the lines issues - thanks for sharing.

nanandjim
03-15-2005, 11:29 AM
...The line on Keith Henderson is that he is a beast as a prosecutor and he is going to go after Donnie full steam. It will be interesting to see if Donnie will take the fall for his bro, unlike Mr. Boney. We will see if blood is thicker than water I suppose.
If Donnie takes the fall for his brother, he is a BIG IDIOT! I will be very surprised if he does. Someone who is unethical enough to write up an insurance policy and forge the person's name surely would be looking out for his own best interest when everything is said and done. Has he been fired from his job?

smellsarat
03-15-2005, 11:40 AM
Well if you'all recall Chuck Stuart's ( Boston murder case) brother hadn't caved Chuck may have gotten away with the heinous murder of his wife Carol...shot after leaving a birthing class....The brother, Matthew subsequently went to prison for complicity in the insurance scam but many thought he knew full well that it was in fact a murder...............he has since been imprisoned again I beleiev for a drug violation.......So when it comes down to it ...it's every man for himself!!:eek:

nanandjim
03-15-2005, 12:42 PM
...So when it comes down to it ...it's every man for himself!!:eek:
Especially in the world of thugs... Didn't the movie portray the brother as feeling guilty and eventually going to the police? Or that he told someone who told the police and then he eventually told the truth? Sounds like he is a troubled young man...

jimmypage9129
03-15-2005, 02:02 PM
I just talked with a co-worker who grew up just down the street from the Camms, she said that Camm definitely has an older daughter who is btw. 19-21 and works in a local hospital here. She said that she went to this hospital for an exam and a nurse and her started talking about the case when the nurse said, "You know that David's older daughter works here". The nurse went on to tell my coworker that this girl wanted nothing to do with her father and that in fact she had filed a restraining order against David!!!! I had heard this rumor elsewhere. I'm not certain the whole restraining order is true to be fair. However, his daughter apparently made it clear to others that she wanted to stay out of the whole ordeal and didn't want any of the publicity, which explains largely why so little, if anything, has been put out there by the media. As for Donnie, I got on the Floyd Circuit Court website and found out that he filed for divorce from his wife in early 1998. Also, in the Civil by Kim Camm's parents, I found out that David Camm's uncle was appointed "attorney in fact" after David signed over his administratorship to him due to his being in jail. Kim Camm's father filed a motion for the court to dissolve the Co-administratorship of Camm's uncle and eventually an Agreed Order was file that stated that Camm's uncle would no longer be an administrator of the estate. However the implication is clear, Camm and his uncle didn't want the money to go to Kim Camm's parents. I will keep you posted on what I hear. Also, I puled up on the Floyd Circuit website an old Civil Case by a guy who had the hell beat out of him by the IN St Police and guess who was one of the cops?? The case was eventually settled and Camm was absolved of any wrong doing but he ended up quitting the ISP later that year for what he felt was lack of support.

smellsarat
03-15-2005, 02:02 PM
Especially in the world of thugs... Didn't the movie portray the brother as feeling guilty and eventually going to the police? Or that he told someone who told the police and then he eventually told the truth? Sounds like he is a troubled young man...
He told his attorney I think...but first I think his girlfriend who urged him to come clean I think...I forget ,....Bottom Line...the brother was also a scumbag!!:slap:

nanandjim
03-15-2005, 02:19 PM
...The case was eventually settled and Camm was absolved of any wrong doing but he ended up quitting the ISP later that year for what he felt was lack of support.
Very interesting, JP. I hate to say it but Camm and other members of his family seem very shady. I feel certain that what we have read and what you are relaying to us is just the tip of the iceberg. I surely hope as much as possible about this guy's character and actions are exposed in court.

Do you know if Donnie lost his job due to the forged life insurance policy?

I can't wait until they prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law.

About Camm and the so-called lack of support: Those troopers know his reputation and exactly how he is. What a blessing that he left the force. He was giving them a bad name.

Newswolf
03-15-2005, 03:19 PM
TY for the update Jimmypage - our own CSI.

I hope his oldest daughter is able to protect her privacy and her distance from Camm. The distance should be easy since he should be going back to prison forever.

I hope the Renns get the money.

Newswolf
03-15-2005, 10:46 PM
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050315/NEWS01/503150405/1008/news01

A hearing has been scheduled for April 4 on objections by lawyers for former Indiana State Police Trooper David Camm to the way his murder trial was returned to Floyd County last week.
Camm was scheduled for a retrial in August in Warrick County on charges of murdering his wife and two young children in September 2000. The trial had been moved because of intense publicity in Floyd County.

jimmypage9129
03-16-2005, 11:12 AM
Hey guys, as usual, the MSM always a step behind the blogosphere! Check it out. Apparently our friend Donnie, or Danny depending on the paper you read, is a real work of art!

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050316/NEWS02/503160511/1025/NEWS02

I have dispatched various minions living in the Floyds Knobs/Georgetown area where Camm is from so that I can get the lowdown on the Camms. I emailed a local TV reporter for the NBC affiliate and told her to look into the restraining order thing. I will keep you all posted. Peace out.

jimmypage9129
03-16-2005, 11:23 AM
"A civil lawsuit filed May 30, 2002 by Frank Renn, Kimberly Camm's father, also claims that Daniel Camm illegally made himself the policy's contingent beneficiary -- the person who would receive payments if Kimberly and David Camm, who was the primary beneficiary, died."

"Daniel Camm's license to sell life insurance in Florida was revoked in February 2004 after he was charged with securities fraud in an unrelated case.

He was placed on five years' probation, with a verdict by the court withheld pending the successful completion of probation. Court documents in the case allege he fraudulently obtained investments from two people in 1999."

"In addition to admitting they'd made the insurance policy application look as if Kimberly had signed it while in Tampa, Daniel Camm and Barber also acknowledged listing Daniel Camm's home in Florida as Kim Camm's address, according to testimony in the 2002 trial. They did that, they said, because they were not licensed to sell insurance in Indiana."

- Courier Journal, March 16, 2005

jimmypage9129
03-16-2005, 11:37 AM
http://www.floydcounty.in.gov/court_rec_menu.asp

This is the website for Floyd County court where Camm is being prosecuted. If you type in "Camm" under party search, you can view the case history of the various Camm cases.

Newswolf
03-16-2005, 11:38 AM
Hi Jimmyp- you beat me to it. I just read this. Sounds like the brother has some legal woes........

Let us know what you drum up!!

nanandjim
03-16-2005, 12:25 PM
http://www.floydcounty.in.gov/court_rec_menu.asp

This is the website for Floyd County court where Camm is being prosecuted. If you type in "Camm" under party search, you can view the case history of the various Camm cases.
My goodness, the Camm clan certainly has a lot of lawsuits pending, don't they?

I hope that Danny/Donnie is arrested soon!

jimmypage9129
03-16-2005, 04:32 PM
Well, to be fair, some of those cases are either repeats, moot, or cases that were since combined with other actions.

jimmypage9129
03-17-2005, 09:56 AM
I emailed the local tv Reporter for our NBC affiliate WAVE3 TV and inquired about Camm's older daughter and her story. I got the following response:

Patrick -

Here's the deal. Camm's oldest daughter and ex-wife both asked to be added to the restraining order the Warrick County judge gave Camm when he was released on bond. The Renn's were the only ones listed initially.

I did not cover the verdict in the first trial - but it is my understanding that his daughter was there in support of him and passed out a little after the verdict was read.

Since he's been in prison, I think things have changed, and she no longer wants contact with him. She has declined past requests from the media, although I've never asked her personally. She isn't a central figure in the case, and I'm not sure if she was even clsoe to David at the time of the murders. I'm really not sure what she would have to offer, other than she doesn't want anything to do with him now. I respect her wish to be left alone.

Hope this helps!

Carrie Harned

nanandjim
03-17-2005, 11:09 AM
I emailed the local tv Reporter for our NBC affiliate WAVE3 TV and inquired about Camm's older daughter and her story. I got the following response:...
JP - From that response, it sounds like the daughter was at first supportive. If this is so, it doesn't sound like she was molested--unless it happened when she was young and she didn't remember.

Something must have happened to cause the mother and daughter to ask that they be added to the restraining order, though. Wonder what that was??

jimmypage9129
03-17-2005, 01:47 PM
JimandNan, I certainly have not heard of anything specific which led to Camm's ex and his older daughter to get the RO, but I would speculate that it likely was the one year or so they had to ponder the facts of the case after he was convicted. When they heard that he was getting out, it must have hit them like a load of bricks and they suddenly had a change of heart. Perhaps the girl and her mother think that Camm might want them dead, particularly if they do have damning information about Camm. Then again, it appears that Camm did support this kid vis a vis child support payments, so he wasn't a complete deadbeat, at least to her.

nanandjim
03-17-2005, 02:42 PM
JP - I didn't realize that Camm was that old to have a grown child. I am assuming that Kim knew about his prior marriage and daughter. Surely, he had visitation with her.

David Camm seems like yet another sociopath who fooled yet another nice, sweet woman who wanted nothing more than to have a nice husband, family and home.

Newswolf
03-18-2005, 12:05 PM
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050318/NEWS02/503180374/1025/NEWS02

Daniel Camm denies signing his sister-in-law Kimberly Camm's name to an application for a $150,000 life-insurance policy issued only a few months before she was murdered in September 2000.

"That's Kim's signature," Daniel Camm said in a telephone interview yesterday.

nanandjim
03-18-2005, 05:25 PM
..Daniel Camm denies signing his sister-in-law Kimberly Camm's name to an application for a $150,000 life-insurance policy issued only a few months before she was murdered in September 2000.

"That's Kim's signature," Daniel Camm said in a telephone interview yesterday.
Uh-huh...Sure...Something's rotten in Denmark... Hope that the ball isn't dropped on this scam.

Did anyone ever collect on this policy?

Wonder what Barber testified to in court??

Newswolf
03-18-2005, 06:50 PM
The companies involved - 2 of them- have turned over $384k to the courts pending the criminal and civil cases. The parents of Kim filed suit for the money. They reportedly received $200k from a policy Kim had through her job.

Newswolf
03-20-2005, 11:23 AM
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050320/NEWS01/503200427

A neighbor in the Zorn Avenue condominium complex where Boney (pronounced Bo-NAY) was living when he was arrested this month described him as the nicest person in the building, so generous that he helped others carry groceries up the stairs.
But that neighbor, Paul Faust, also recalled that while shoveling snow one day before Christmas, Boney suddenly began talking about the condo president's feet: "He said she has really cute little toes." Then, Faust said, Boney mentioned he had "friends who are into really shady business."
"I didn't want to know about it, so I didn't ask him any questions," Faust said. "It was really creepy."

smellsarat
03-20-2005, 11:42 AM
So Boney has admitted his involvement and that he was there.:razz: ..........brought the weapon AND left the sweatshirt he brought it in.................boy you would think they wouldn't have been that stupid..Camm being a cop and all..........:confused:

nanandjim
03-20-2005, 01:21 PM
What is incredibly sickening about Boney, if I have read the accounts right, is not only was he present. He peered into the car to view the murdered bodies and removed Kim's shoes, I presume to view her feet. This guy is a real sicko.

Newswolf
03-21-2005, 05:35 PM
http://www.news-tribune.net/articles/2005/03/21/news/new_albany_tribune/news10.txt

Neither the defense nor prosecution has ruled out that a third party may have been involved the murders. Uliana also said that unknown female DNA was found on the sweatshirt near Brad's body, and that unknown male DNA not belonging to Boney or Camm has been recovered from Brad's sweatpants.
"There's still a lot of information to look at," Henderson said. "This time I don't anticipate charging a third party, but the investigation is far from over."

Kimmer
04-08-2005, 02:26 PM
OK all I am back sorry for the long delay but I only have the internet on my work PC and my modum has been burned up and just got replaced, Now that all that is out of the way.

Let me give you all a little info about my connection with this case, I also live in southern Indiana and I am also a friend of Greg Karem he is married to to Kim Camms sister, so there is some that I can add and some that for reasons I will not be able to.

I can tell you that the first prosecutor Stan Faith was aware during the first trial that Kimberleys signature had been forged and also that Donny who is living in florida was not licensed in Indiana to sell life insurance, why Mr Faith dropped the ball on the chance to also prosecute this brother has never been understood. but times have changed and so has the prosecutor I dont think
Keith Henderson is going to just let this drop.

I think the general take on the Boney connection is that David got him to meet him with the gun wrapped in the sweatshirt with Boney's prison nickname Backbone written in the back collar thinking that if that was found at the crime scene that there would have never been any suspision placed on David.
During the first trial the Camm family referred to the sweatshirt more than once as did the defense. And I also believe that after the shootings in all the commotion to stage the crime scene, Boney thought that David would get the shirt when David meant to leave it thinking it would lead the police away from himself.

This will be a intresting trial this time since we do have an eyewitness who is signing like a bird.

Also on the older daughter and ex-wife I think the reason they have stepped away from david is because the prosecution now has sworn testimony from at least 2 people david confessed the murders to while he was in jail. I think when that information came to light they knew how sick he really is.

I will add more later.

smellsarat
04-08-2005, 02:33 PM
Thanks Kimmer....wow you really have a connection here don't you??

By the way last week Nancy Grace had a small piece on the case...wonder if she will continue to pursue it on her new show??:waitasec:

Kimmer
04-08-2005, 02:45 PM
http://www.louisville.com/snitch_camm.html

This link also has some very interesting info from the begining of the case if anyone cares to check it out.


Kimmer

nanandjim
04-08-2005, 03:39 PM
...
This link also has some very interesting info from the begining of the case if anyone cares to check it out.
Kimmer - Thanks for stopping back. I am very interested in justice prevailing in this case. I also hope that the younger Camm is prosecuted for the insurance fraud and more. You can't tell me that he didn't know what was going to happen, especially if he forged Kim's signature. Did David ever collect all of that money? It sounds like it was quite a bit (around $600,000).

What does her family think the motive was? My thoughts are that Kim was about to divorce David. She would have been much better off without this loser. However, he would have been left with nothing except his loser self. Without Kim's income, coupled with paying child support, I can well imagine David's philandering ways would be somewhat curtailed.

Also, he stood the chance of being prosecuted for molesting his daughter.

That, coupled with the money motive, is my guess. Taking out that $150,000 policy two months before her death really says a lot.

Kimmer
04-08-2005, 04:46 PM
I believe the general thought as to motive in this case has always been that Kim was preparing to leave David and that he thought he could do away with her and his kids and get the money and then go on and live a life that would be that of a playboy with nothing to tie him down. He was working for his uncle at the time of the murders so it wasnt like he had a major career or anything like that.

Kim had always been the main financial contributor to the family so she and the kids would have done very well indeed without him.

As far as the molesting of Jill goes I dont think there has ever been enough evidence to prove that it happened for sure, there was definatly some injury to that area found during the autopsy, but according to family members Jill had recently injured herself on some playground equipment so that has been left as a still unaswered question. but there was evidence that Jill has recently been on her parents bed, but as we all know as parents that could be very innocent. I am certainly not trying to say it didnt happen but it hasnt been proven to me that it did either.

I dont understand the statement by Charels Boney that he was in the house when the shootings occured but he could hear the fatal shots being fired. I find that difficult to believe since the garage was not attached to the house. I dont know if he was the trigger man or not since we dont have his clothing from that night. but we do have Davids and he does have GSR and Jills tissue embedded in the weave of his tee-shirt. I think we will learn much more about what Kim and the kids went through that fatefull night when we get back to trial.

I can tell you this much David said before his conviction that one thing that haunted him was the thought of Bradley screaming Daddy, Daddy and that he wasnt there to help him.....well the family thinks that is what Bradley was screaming as he watched his father shoot his mother and his sister and
as he tried to escape his fathers rathe by trying to climb over that back seat of the bronco as the forensic evidence shows.

I also know several of the Idiana State troopers that worked this case and they would have liked nothing more than to have been able to clear David of this crime but the evidence would not allow them to do that.

I am off for today but will be back online tommorrow. see you all then

Kimmer

nanandjim
04-08-2005, 06:21 PM
I believe the general thought as to motive in this case has always been that Kim was preparing to leave David and that he thought he could do away with her and his kids and get the money and then go on and live a life that would be that of a playboy with nothing to tie him down...
Isn't the accomplice talking? Will he testify at David's trial? I certainly hope so. Of course, I guess that David and Bonner will try to pin it on each other. I don't believe that Bonner was the shooter, mainly because of Jill's blood on David's shirt.

Bonner was confusing to me, too. First, I thought that I read he was in the house during the shootings. Then, he came out afterwards. Then, I thought that I read that he was an eyewitness to the murders.

When does the trial begin?

Kimmer
04-09-2005, 07:19 AM
no trial date has been set yet, they are going to be tried toghether, I dont think you will ever see David say that he was there with Boney (pronounced BONAY). The understanding that I have at this point is that Charles Boney has admitted to being there and hearing the shots fired from in the house then he said he went to the garage and looked in the bronco from the passenger side, he needed to explain why the police had a possitive palm print of his on the passenger side glass window, so he says he went to the garage and looked in the truck to make sure they were really all dead and then he took Kims shoes and put them on the roof of the truck, which is where they were found by the police.

So in my opinion he is explaining himself there just enough to match with the evidence against him. but like I said if we had his clothes it might tell a different story, I am just happy they are both being charged with triple murder, and I hope that for the Renn Familys sake that Justice will prevaile for
Kim, Jill and Bradley.

Janice and Frank Renn (Kims Parents) are incredible people with an amazing amount of faith in the justice system and they have been thru hell with this case since it began, and I dont know if you can even imagine this but they still have Kim and Davids wedding pictures hanging in there home and say they always will so they can remember her at her happiest, but they also know from the very core of there being that David is responsible for the death of there daughter and grandchildren, but they also still know that at some point in Kim and the kids life he made them happy also.

I cant even imagine the courage it must take to look at such a bleak situation
that way.

nanandjim
04-09-2005, 10:47 AM
The victims' family is in a really tough situation. Unfortunately, I only feel that Kim was happy due to a facade that David put up. If Kim had known the "real David," I don't believe that she would have been very happy.

Newswolf
04-18-2005, 08:27 PM
http://www.wave3.com/global/story.asp?s=3226672

The trial for accused triple murderer David Camm will remain in Floyd County. A judge handed down that ruling Monday. WAVE 3's James Zambroski has more.
In issuing the order, Floyd Circuit Court Judge J. Terrence Cody agreed with prosecutors that in Camm's first trial a jury was brought in from Johnson County to ensure he received a fair trial.

Newswolf
05-18-2005, 07:22 PM
http://www.wave3.com/global/story.asp?s=3325554

After four-and-a-half years in the media spotlight, it's a case that doesn't seem to have an end. But a new book just released titled, One Deadly Night, wraps up the Camm tragedy in 340 pages.
Author John Glatt says "I think it's one of the most fascinating true crime stories I have ever come across. First, it was a horrific crime -- a state trooper who was sort of a pillar of the community accused of killing his wife and two young children in cold blood -- and then really staging the perfect alibi."

smellsarat
05-18-2005, 10:40 PM
How can he wqrite a book..when it's not over yet???:doh:

nanandjim
05-19-2005, 12:54 PM
How can he wqrite a book..when it's not over yet???:doh:
When does the new trial start?? It should be interesting.

Newswolf
05-19-2005, 05:22 PM
Right now it's set for August-delay is likely- but there's a ruling anticipated this month on where the trial will be held.

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3367723&nav=0RZEa4ML

The question of where to hold David Camm's second trial may depend on how the court determines whether evidence in the case is new.
At issue is once unidentified DNA that was linked to co-defendant Charles Boney earlier this year.

http://www.thelouisvillechannel.com/davidcamm/4509256/detail.html

Henderson said he hopes his 50-page argument will convince the Supreme Court to rule in his favor, Harding reported.
"We went into more detail of the facts surrounding the new co-defendant, Charles Boney," he said.
Camm's attorneys, however, said Thursday that the case should return to Warrick County.

mysteriew
05-28-2005, 07:30 AM
The wheels of justice are moving again in the David Camm triple murder case. But now, thanks to a ruling from the Indiana Supreme Court, those wheels will take this case back west to Warrick County. WAVE 3's Carrie Harned reports.

After more than a two-month delay over where the trial should be held, the case will transfer back to the county where it was originally venued before the discovery of a second suspect, Charles Boney.

But more tough decisions lie ahead for the state. Right now, Camm and Boney are charged together in the murders of Kim, Jill and Brad Camm. The Supreme Court left the door open whether to move Boney's case to Warrick County or keep it in Floyd County.

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3403320

Marstan
05-30-2005, 11:33 AM
I did not know about this case until I read the updates yesterday. I can tell you I will be watching, reading and following this case til the end. It does read like a mystery story that's for sure. Prayers for the family - it looks like the angels are already doing their work.:rolleyes:

Newswolf
06-05-2005, 09:39 PM
Hoping he is NOT released on bail. (again)

http://www.news-tribune.net/articles/2005/06/05/news/new_albany_tribune/news18.txt


The two Bloomington lawyers filed a motion to get their client released from jail the Floyd County Jail.
"Our first motion is going to be a motion to reinstate the bond and the judge would have the opportunity to set a hearing," said Sam Lockhart, Camm's uncle.

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050604/NEWS02/506040368&SearchID=73210277883945

The Floyd County Prosecutor's office will ask next week that former state trooper David Camm be kept in jail pending a new bond hearing in Warrick County.
That's in response to a motion filed this week by Camm's lawyers asking for his release from the Floyd County Jail based on the $20,000 cash bond that was set in January in Warrick County and posted by Camm's family.

halycon
06-05-2005, 09:50 PM
Good to hear this. Thank you.

Newswolf
06-08-2005, 05:36 PM
No bail!

http://wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3447945&nav=0RZEandC

(video)
Triple murder suspect David Camm will remain in jail until his trial on charges that he murdered his wife and two children on September 28, 2000. That decision came late Wednesday morning from a Warrick County Judge.

smellsarat
06-08-2005, 09:23 PM
GoodyGoody!!!! Thanks for the update!!:cool:

Newswolf
06-11-2005, 10:13 AM
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050611/NEWS02/506110406

A Warrick County judge yesterday scheduled a hearing for June 29 on whether former Indiana State Trooper David Camm should be released from jail on bond.
Warrick Superior Court Judge Robert Aylsworth said the hearing also will consider all the other "pending issues" in Camm's trial in the murder of his wife and two small children.
Those issues include questions raised by both the prosecution and defense about getting access to information gathered by investigators for the other side; fees to help pay for experts for the defense; and whether decisions made previously by Aylsworth can be made part of the current trial.

smellsarat
06-11-2005, 11:55 AM
Why haven't the media glommed on to this case??? Seems like it's ideal for cable.....We want to know!!!

Newswolf
06-15-2005, 07:22 PM
Smells, maybe someone will yet.

I'm sure the taxpayers love this:

http://www.news-tribune.net/articles/2005/06/15/news/new_albany_tribune/news03.txt

At yesterday's meeting, the County Council granted Henderson's request for an additional $50,000 for use in the upcoming David Camm triple-murder case. A trial date in the case was recently set for Aug. 8 by Warrick County Superior Court Judge Robert Aylsworth.
Since January, Camm's defense team has spent about $25,000 of the county's money on investigators.
"What I've seen so far is unreasonable," Henderson said of the defense teams' bills. "The county has already paid $25,000-plus for investigator payment.
"What's it going to be like the rest of the year."

smellsarat
06-15-2005, 07:40 PM
Just like the Peterson Case...apparently Crime Pays Big !!!:(

sue1017
06-20-2005, 07:28 PM
Is there any new information pertaining to this case? I have read the book and have been reading all the postings here as well as any links. This case has me totally hooked and was looking for some updated info.

Thanks,

S

Newswolf
06-20-2005, 07:46 PM
Is there any new information pertaining to this case? I have read the book and have been reading all the postings here as well as any links. This case has me totally hooked and was looking for some updated info.

Thanks,

S

Welcome to WS Sue. This is one story I check everyday for news. I think the next thing may be the bond reduction hearing .Or maybe some of the locals in the know will drop back by here and spill .

sue1017
06-20-2005, 09:51 PM
Thanks Newswolf for the welcome. I have been lurking around here for a few weeks and thought it was time for me to say hello.

I guess I will have to wait til more comes forth.

Thanks again.

S

sue1017
06-20-2005, 10:27 PM
One more thing:

Does anyone know of any links or places on the net to find crime scene photos?

S

mysteriew
06-29-2005, 07:04 PM
Thanks Newswolf for the welcome. I have been lurking around here for a few weeks and thought it was time for me to say hello.

I guess I will have to wait til more comes forth.

Thanks again.

S

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a255/mysteriew/proud/welcomegroup.gif

The Floyd County, Indiana prosecutor says he will seek life in prison without parole for a former Indiana state trooper accused of killing his wife and two children.

David Camm is appearing at a bond reduction hearing Wednesday in Warrick County, Indiana where his case was moved from New Albany. Camm's attorney says life in prison would be a harsher than the 195 year sentence Camm received after his first trial.

http://www.14wfie.com/Global/story.asp?S=3535372

sue1017
06-29-2005, 08:28 PM
Thank you too for the warm welcome!

S

mysteriew
06-30-2005, 10:16 AM
Floyd County Prosecutor Keith Henderson said at a Wednesday hearing he would seek a sentence of life in prison without parole for David Camm. Prosecutors already had said they would not seek the death penalty for his co-defendant, Charles D. Boney.

One of Henderson's key witnesses, Indiana State Police investigator Gary Gilbert, testified at the hearing that Boney, who has admitted being at the murder scene, told authorities that he heard a voice, believed to be Camm's son, say "Daddy" just before one of the shots was fired.

http://www.wkyt.com/Global/story.asp?S=3539587

sue1017
06-30-2005, 03:26 PM
I read the linked article you provided. It's hard to believe an ex-con on all these points. If they figure he is guilty of the crimes then he will go back to prison. I would figure somewhere in his story he must be lying so that David Camm will take the total fall of the triple murders.

I still think David did it with the help of Boney.

MOO!!

Newswolf
07-07-2005, 11:07 AM
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050707/NEWS02/507070391

Charles D. Boney will appear in court this afternoon for a hearing on a habitual offender charge in the murder of former state trooper David Camm's family.
Boney, 36, and Camm, 41, are co-defendants in the murders of Camm's wife and children.
Last week Floyd County Prosecutor Keith Henderson added the habitual offender charge to those already filed against Boney.
If convicted in the murders, Boney's sentence could be increased by up to 30 years if the jury determines that he also has committed at least two other unrelated crimes.

Newswolf
07-08-2005, 05:38 AM
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050708/NEWS02/507080372

A judge ruled yesterday that Charles D. Boney can be charged as an habitual offender, which would increase his sentence if he is convicted of murdering or conspiring to murder the family of former state trooper David Camm.
~
Renn denied that he and the prosecutor had been involved in negotiations about Boney's case. They have talked about the case only in general terms, Renn said.

Newswolf
07-08-2005, 06:37 PM
http://www.wave3.com/global/story.asp?s=3570267

There are some new twists in the Camm murder case, thanks to Mala Singh Mattingly. Mattingly, a former girlfriend of co-defendant Charles Bonay, was questioned by Camm's defense team on Tuesday for six hours. Now Camm's brother, Donnie, tells WAVE 3's Caton Bredar that Mattingly's statements bring new hope to his brother's case.

nanandjim
07-09-2005, 03:57 PM
http://www.wave3.com/global/story.asp?s=3570267

There are some new twists in the Camm murder case, thanks to Mala Singh Mattingly. Mattingly, a former girlfriend of co-defendant Charles Bonay, was questioned by Camm's defense team on Tuesday for six hours. Now Camm's brother, Donnie, tells WAVE 3's Caton Bredar that Mattingly's statements bring new hope to his brother's case.
Wonder if there is any validity to this story or if it is just defense spin?

Newswolf
07-10-2005, 11:34 PM
Wonder if there is any validity to this story or if it is just defense spin?

Spinning like a Maytag washer IMHO.

Newswolf
07-12-2005, 06:18 PM
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3583655&nav=0RZEc2OJ

Renn believes if the two men are tried together, statements Boney made to police implicating Camm might not be admissible in court because the law gives Camm the opportunity to cross examine his accuser, and Boney doesn't plan on taking the stand.
So why would Henderson handcuff himself like that?
Wilder says it might be because of what investigators dug up last week when they searched the backyard of Boney's childhood home and interviewed Boney's live-in girlfriend at the time of the murders.


http://www.thelouisvillechannel.com/davidcamm/4714927/detail.html

The latest twist in the David Camm triple-murder case has the prosecutor filing a motion to have a second suspect tried together with Camm.
~~
But the attorney for Boney, who was arrested this year in connection with the crimes, said he'll fight to keep his client's case in Floyd County.
"The bottom line is the chance of these cases being tried together is very unlikely," attorney Patrick Renn said.

Newswolf
07-13-2005, 07:47 AM
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050713/NEWS02/507130442

Bradley said that if Boney refuses to take the witness stand, which is his right, the prosecutor might be unable to introduce to the jury statements Boney has made that incriminate Camm.
But he said prosecutors often like to try cases jointly when they involve multiple defendants, in hopes that one will accuse the other.
Donnie Camm, David Camm's older brother, said yesterday that his family isn't concerned about the attempt to join the two cases.
"We're going to be prepared," he said.

smellsarat
07-13-2005, 08:02 AM
Hey Newswolf..Do you know if Court Tv is going to cover this in January?:waitasec:

Thanks!!!!:)

Newswolf
07-13-2005, 01:44 PM
Smells, I don't know, but right now the trial is slated for Aug.9.

smellsarat
07-13-2005, 01:48 PM
Smells, I don't know, but right now the trial is slated for Aug.9.
OOH that soon !! I thought it was January......Hope they do!!!

Newswolf
07-13-2005, 01:56 PM
I just did a search- Indiana does not allow cameras in trial courtrooms so I'm guessing CTV would not attempt to cover this one.

Yes, just weeks away unless the defense is granted a delay!

Newswolf
07-15-2005, 07:08 AM
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050715/NEWS02/507150380

A hearing has been scheduled for July 27 on whether to join the murder and conspiracy trials of Charles Boney and David Camm in Warrick County.
~
He acknowledged that the rules for using evidence in such joined cases can be complicated and might keep the prosecutor from presenting statements to the jury that Boney has made incriminating Camm.
But decisions on such issues will be made by a judge if Boney and Camm's cases are combined, Owen said.

Newswolf
07-27-2005, 02:23 PM
http://www.wave3.com/global/story.asp?s=3647224

Floyd County prosecutors were in court this morning for the latest development in the Camm family murder case. David Camm will be tried in Warrick County for the murders of his wife and two children, and prosecutors want the trial of accused co-conspirator, Charles Boney, to be moved there as well.

majcm
07-28-2005, 12:12 AM
I also live within a couple miles of New Albany & have followed this case. I knew from the day he went on TV saying, "I just want my family back" trying to boo hoo and couldn't. I told hubby, "that guy did it!" The faking of emotions always gives them away. I just finished the book "One Deadly Night" and it had a lot of info I didn't know.

That book said his older daughter & ex-wife sat with the Renn family during the trial and supported them. His daughter did faint after the verdict, but supposedly she loved Kim & the kids and I guess thought her dad could have done it.

One other thing that is so strange to me is: In the book, they said David Camm was the first officer to arrive at the scene of an awful murder here in 1992, Shanda Sharer, 12.. I worked w/Shanda's mom at the time. (This murder is just as horrific). The strange thing is at the time of the Camm murders, Shanda's mom had dedicated her life to victims and was the legal secrertary/assistant of Stan Faith in the first trial. She still works for him though he isn't the city pros. anymore. We had dinner a couple times in the last couple months & she never mentioned the Shanda/Camm connection, but told us there is NO DOUBT he did it. She also said she was so tired of locals blaming Stan for the missing DNA of Boney in the first trial. She said they sent the shirt to the lab, told them what tests to do & check for matches. They told them there were no matches. As she said, that's all the prosecutor can do, they can't say, "Look guys, I know there's a match in the system, keep testing till you find one." They have to go by what the crime lab tells them. The info. had been backed up & Boney's DNa was not in the systemt then. She said Camm winked & tried to flirt w/one of the juror's in the first trial (I had heard that elsewhere too) and actually propositioned one of the female guards in the Floyd Co. jail while ON TRIAL!!

Sorry so long, but one more thing. She said Stan Faith had been Boney's lawyer years ago and a week or so before this DNA match, she & Stan had lunch w/Boney & his mom. Said he was the most soft spoken, polite and seemingly nice guy you'd want to meet. Little did she know and it really spooked her. Would me too. That woman is the strongest person I know (you might want to look up Shanda's murder on the net) that her mom could get through that and go on to do speeches in schools, and is really living her life to help other victim's families know life can go on, not ever the same, but it WILL go on.

He will be convicted again, I just know it!

KT Can
07-28-2005, 01:43 AM
I recently picked up the book "One Deadly Night" at the airport to read on the plane. I couldn't put it down, not even on vacation. I had only heard of the Cam case briefly before I read the book as I didn't catch the whole 48 Hours special. There are a lot of details in the book that I don't think come across in this thread or on the internet. I would recommend that anyone who is interested in this case read the book.

:twocents: My two cents are that David Cam definitely murdered his wife and two children. I didn't just form this opinion from reading the book, although it helped cement it for me, I thought he was guilty from the moment I saw him trying to drum up fake emotions a la Susan Smith. On a side note, I dated a homicide detective for several years and one of the cases that he was assigned involved a fellow officer who was suspected of killing his wife. It has never been proven, but everyone is pretty sure he did it. We knew this officer as we kind of ran in the same social circles, being cops and all, and I have to say that this guy and David Cam could be one and the same. As I read the book I thought I was reading about him.

Wierd about the Shanda Sharer connection. That was such a horrific crime, almost to horrific to read about. Her mother must be a strong and wonderful person to do the work that she does. Any updates on the girl's that committed Shanda's murder? What is thier prison status?

majcm
07-28-2005, 10:02 AM
Toni Lawrence, the one who first went to police, got out in 2000 and went back to Madison, IN to live. I heard she had trouble finding a job (good). Last thing I heard was she had married.

Melinda Loveless & Laurie Tackett (the main torturers) have both been in trouble in prison, so at least they won't get their terms cut in half for good behavior. They got 60 years each in 1992 so it will be at least 2052 before they can get out.

I haven't heard anything about Hope Rippey, but she got 50 or 60 years and is still in prison.

Newswolf
07-28-2005, 12:27 PM
Interesting majcm. I didn't know about the Camm-Shanda connection. I guess I need to pick up that book.


http://www.news-tribune.net/articles/2005/07/28/news/new_albany_tribune/news03.txt

Floyd County Circuit Court Judge J. Terrence Cody did not set a new trial date for Boney, saying only that postponing the trial date to the Spring of 2006 as public defender Patrick Renn had requested "might be a bit of stretch."
"I won't be ready in the fall and, in all likelihood, I won't be ready until next Spring," Renn said.

sue1017
07-29-2005, 02:54 AM
Newswolf,

Tell me more about this connection between Camm/Shanda. I just read a link about her murder in 2000 that someone here posted but would like to know how Camm fits in with this murder.

Thanks,

S

Newswolf
07-29-2005, 09:36 AM
Newswolf,

Tell me more about this connection between Camm/Shanda. I just read a link about her murder in 2000 that someone here posted but would like to know how Camm fits in with this murder.

Thanks,

S

Hi Sue, just what I read in post 162, that he was the first trooper at the Shanda murder scene. Just an odd thing, that he would be at that poor little girl's murder, and then later murder his own kids and wife.

mysteriew
08-04-2005, 03:49 PM
Floyd County Prosecutor Keith Henderson has decided not to appeal a ruling last week that prevents him from trying Charles D. Boney and David Camm together.

Chief Deputy Prosecutor Steve Owen said yesterday that his office will move forward with separate trials -- Boney's in Floyd County and Camm's in Warrick County.

Camm's trial is scheduled to begin Jan. 9. Boney's trial has been postponed to give Renn more time to prepare.

Renn said Cody has scheduled a pretrial conference for Sept. 6 to decide on a trial date for Boney.

Renn said yesterday that he has received no information from the prosecutor's office about its investigation of Boney and has thus been unable to do much work on his defense.
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050804/NEWS02/508040400

nanandjim
08-24-2005, 06:06 PM
I hope that Camm's jury doesn't buy the story that Boney committed the murders. Common sense question would be: What was the motive for Boney to commit the murders??

IMO, they both were there and did the crime, with Camm having the motive.

Newswolf
09-07-2005, 05:56 AM
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050907/NEWS02/509070424

A Jan. 9 trial date has been set in Charles D. Boney's murder case -- the same day that alleged co-conspirator David Camm is scheduled for trial 95 miles away in Warrick County.
Floyd Circuit Judge J. Terrence Cody's announcement yesterday culminated weeks of procedural wrangling, as prosecutors had attempted unsuccessfully to try Boney with Camm.

vanillasky
09-09-2005, 09:35 PM
Thank you for that update! I purchased the book a while back, and read it from cover to cover in one day. Very fascinating, and I can't wait to see what the trial brings. IMO, Camm is guilty.


http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050907/NEWS02/509070424

A Jan. 9 trial date has been set in Charles D. Boney's murder case -- the same day that alleged co-conspirator David Camm is scheduled for trial 95 miles away in Warrick County.
Floyd Circuit Judge J. Terrence Cody's announcement yesterday culminated weeks of procedural wrangling, as prosecutors had attempted unsuccessfully to try Boney with Camm.

Newswolf
09-15-2005, 06:57 AM
Simon, I'm reading the book now. Interesting..especially the description of Camm's rage early in the marriage when Kim discovered one of his affairs.

~~
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3850933

Investigators are looking for the gun used to kill David Camm's family in the garage of their Georgetown home five years ago. On Wednesday, dive teams from Kentucky and Indiana searched a small lake in a Floyd County subdivision for several hours. WAVE 3 Investigator Eric Flack has the latest.
Investigators may be getting closer to finding the weapon that could break the David Camm murder case wide open.

mysteriew
09-19-2005, 01:11 PM
A team of divers is back at a lake in a New Albany subdivision, continuing a search it began last week.

They're being tight-lipped about what they're looking for, but neighbors believe it has to do with a five-year-old murder case.

“I heard [they’re looking for] a gun involved in the Camm murder case,” says resident Stan Adams.

“Talking with some of the neighbors, they basically spoke with the dive team, and it kind of went from being a training mission to then the word got out and the story broke,” says neighbor Brad Faulkenburg.
http://www.whas11.com/topstories/stories/WHAS11_TOP_LakeSearch.7254437c.html

jimmypage9129
09-20-2005, 09:42 AM
See the attached link:

This neighborhood is right next door to my parents house.

http://www.whas11.com/topstories/stories/WHAS11_TOP_divingsearch.7650505b.html

Newswolf
09-29-2005, 05:53 AM
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050929/NEWS02/509290396

The lawyer for Charles D. Boney, David Camm's co-defendant in a triple-murder case, asked a judge yesterday to withhold Boney's incriminating statements from a jury because investigators allegedly violated his rights during questioning.
~~~Renn also asked Cody to keep the results of lie-detector tests of his client from a jury because Boney was not told he had a right to a lawyer's guidance before signing a document agreeing to be tested.

Newswolf
09-30-2005, 11:48 PM
http://www.news-tribune.net/articles/2005/09/30/news/new_albany_tribune/news04.txt

Floyd County Prosecutor Keith Henderson said 'proper procedures' were followed when questioning Charles Boney about his alleged role in a triple homicide. However, Boney's attorney thinks otherwise.

Patrick Renn filed a motion in Floyd County Circuit Court Tuesday asking Judge J. Terrence Cody to suppress his client's statement on the grounds that he asked investigators for legal representation during questioning

juror16
10-11-2005, 01:49 PM
I have been trying to forget about David Camm. I moved away and looked this up recently and can't believe that there is a chance he might get away with murdering his wife and two beautiful kids. I truely believe he molested Jill and Kim was trying to get away while David was playing basketball, except she must have said something to tip him off. I somehow feel his family is involved in the coverup. They never did find Jills mattress. What happened to the dog? Who cares about what a jerk David was with all the women? DNA does not lie. Those 8 spatters of his own daughters blood imbedded in his tee shirt is the only evidence you need.

Sorry to vent, but this needs to be over.

nanandjim
01-05-2006, 03:02 PM
Here's a link stating that Charles Boney's trial is due to start January 9. I wonder when Camm's trial will begin. I think that Camm committed the murders and is trying to place the entire blame on Boney. I only wish that Boney would talk and tell the whole truth. Surely, he has to know that Camm will be trying to get him to take the fall.
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=4322969

ETA: I just listened/watched the video provided in the link, and David Camm's trial is due to start on Monday, January 9, in Warrick County. Boney is being tried in a separate trial in Floyd (?) County.

It also says that Camm has been subpoenaed to testify at Boney's trial. I think that this is a great strategy by prosecutors. However, how can he be attending his trial, yet be testifying at another one at the same time??

coco
01-06-2006, 07:51 AM
Does anyone know where I can read up on the entire case? I want to learn all about it.

nanandjim
01-15-2006, 01:38 PM
Here's another article about Boney. His trial has apparently begun.
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=4351699

Here's one about Camm.
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060111/NEWS02/60111012/1025

Looks like Camm's retrial date hasn't been set yet.
http://www.wlky.com/davidcamm/4103988/detail.html

detectivewannabe
01-17-2006, 08:59 AM
Opening statements in Camm's trial started yesterday.

PrayersForMaura
01-18-2006, 03:35 PM
Testimony focuses on Boney's actions before, after murders

Floyd County Deputy Prosecutor Steve Owen began questioning witnesses today in Charles Boney's triple-murder trial about Boney's whereabouts before and after the Sept. 28, 2000, murders of the Camm family.

A neighbor of the Camms, Brandon Beavin, 21, testified about seeing what investigators believe was Boney's dark blue Cadillac on Lockhart Lane — where the Camms lived — on the afternoon of the murders.

Karen Ancil, a former girlfriend from Indianapolis, testified that Boney called her on the night of the murders and spoke for more than two hours with her and her children — as Ameritech phone records showed.

Two additional witnesses, a fellow prison inmate and a former friend, are expected to appear in court this afternoon to testify about comments they heard from Boney about the murders.

All of the testimony is aimed at bolstering prosecutors' arguments that Boney lied repeatedly to investigators and came clean only after police confronted him with evidence about his presence at the murders and other details surrounding Kimberly, Bradley and Jill Camm's deaths.

More: http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060118/NEWS02/60118016/-1/rss

nanandjim
01-24-2006, 10:34 AM
Here are the latest articles that I have found concerning this case:
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060124/NEWS02/60124005
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060124/NEWS02/601240385

Kimmer
01-25-2006, 10:17 PM
Tonight the jury came back with a guilty verdict on 4 counts of Charles Boney the co-conspirator to this horrific crime--Guilty count 1 Murder of Kim Camm, Guilty count 2 Murder of Jill Camm and guilty of count 3 Murder of Brad Camm, plus a 4th count of conspiracy with David Camm---The David Camm murder retrial is still ongoing in Warrick County Indiana, Most of the people from this area are really hoping that Boney will roll on Camm and testify at that trial to get the truth about this case. Myself being a personal friend of Kim Camms brother in Law I can tell you the family looked like crap on T.V tonight, but after 2 1/2 trials who could expect anything less....I would really like to see both men get the death sentence, but we may have to settle on Boney getting a lesser sentence to get the real mastermind behind this horrendunce and completly sensless crime....

:behindbar :behindbar ===Charles Boney 1 down 1 to go

god bless kim, jill & brad and the Renn family

Kimmer

nanandjim
01-30-2006, 02:33 PM
More information on Boney and Camm at this link:
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/99999999/NEWS02/60106015&theme=CAMM&template=theme

altruist1000
02-07-2006, 09:34 PM
WOWSA,

I was just in June 2005 of this thread & this case is being covered on Nancy Grace EST 8:34 PM. David Camm's retrial is taking place right now, this week.

luvahgirl
02-08-2006, 03:15 PM
Holy cow! I don't post at WS all that often and I just happened on this only because the thread title was up. I read the book and had no idea all this stuff had transpired since then. I've had to read this whole thread. It's been almost as good as sitting down with the book was. Thanks to all of you for your facts and opinions!
And yes, the Shanda Sharer murder was horrific. Such a difficult read. Cruel and ugly.

detectivewannabe
02-15-2006, 11:33 AM
The defense started their defense yesterday. The judge threw out the conspiracy charge and he is not allowing the affair in either. I am starting to wonder if he will be aquitted this time:confused:

altruist1000
02-15-2006, 12:42 PM
Just can't imagine any jury being able to dismiss that very incriminating forensic evidence on DC's shirt.

Also think I read that there was testimony from a particpant at the basketball game that it indeed would be impossible to state that DC was at the court the entire time so DC does not have an alibi that is conceivable either.

It appears that there is plenty of evidence & motivation, provided by the perpetrator, to speak loudly to the Jury.

Hoping that common sense is not absent from the deliberation room.

tybee204
02-15-2006, 02:03 PM
I actually think there is a good chance he is going to get off this time around. I think the Jury is going to find alot of evidence suspect because of the first DA that prosecuted the case.

detectivewannabe
02-16-2006, 09:57 AM
I have to agree with Tybee. Especially since they threw out the conspiracy charge. They have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that DC ,himself, killed his family. Now remember, Boney has been charged with that crime and even though that has not been brought into evidence, it seems to me it would be hard to prove 2 people did the exact same thing. There is only one gun traced back to Boney, right? Does that make sense? We pretty much know DC was there at the crime scene but can the prosecution prove it beyond a reasonable doubt DC pulled the trigger? The conspiracy charge could have atlease provided the jury with the assumption DC hired or had Boney kill his family while DC was there. I don't know. Maybe I have things confused but I have a really bad feeling about this.:confused:

nanandjim
02-22-2006, 11:18 AM
If I were on the jury, I would have to ask myself what the motive would be for Boney to commit the murders. This wasn't a robbery gone bad. To me, only David Camm had the motive for wiping out his entire family.

detectivewannabe
02-22-2006, 11:54 AM
]If I were on the jury[/b], I would have to ask myself what the motive would be for Boney to commit the murders. This wasn't a robbery gone bad. To me, only David Camm had the motive for wiping out his entire family.
I wish you were;)

JCinSI
02-23-2006, 05:27 PM
I know I'm coming in late in this trial, but I have been reading and researching for days. I don't see how these things could be coincedence.

This is taken from an article written for Wave3 news on May 18, 2005. "Boney wrestled at New Albany High School in 1987. At the time, he went by Darnell. Among his 240 classmates was Danny Camm-- David Camm's younger brother." www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3015135&nav=ORZFWxcD

This is the same brother who was suspected of forging Kim Camm's name on the insurance policy shortly before the murders.

This makes me wonder if the two brothers weren't conspiring together on this. Its hard for me to think that TWO members of a good family would commit such a crime though. It does seem reasonable, however, that Camm used Bonet for more than just buying the gun.

Isn't it possible that Camm left the church by one of the back entrances, placing something slim and unnnoticeable in between the tongue and groove of the self-locking doorjam? He could have sprinted to one of the other dead-end roads nearby, being picked up by Boney. He couldn't leave in his truck, too noticeable. He couldn't run the whole way there and back, too lengthy. This would coincide with Boney's statement of Kim seeing him and Camm in the driveway. Anything Camm didn't want at the scene would have left with Boney to be disposed of (possibly a jacket he may have worn, etc), and Boney could have taken him back to a drop-off point so Camm could sprint back to the church and let himself back in the door he had rigged. The short run back to the church would have kept Camm warmed up and sweating, looking like he'd been playing ball. Its all just what if's and theory, but the timeline is possible. The fact that Boney lied about so many things would even make sense. The way Boney tells it, he had little to do with it, even though he'd been there when it happened. Were the theory I mentioned true, Boney couldn't tell it because it further incriminates him.

It was pretty stupid of Boney to state that Camm had come back to the driveway, pointed the gun at him and pulled the trigger, only to hear a dry click (misfire). Why would Camm do this? How would he explain Boney's body?! Or how the same weapon that killed his family killed this mystery man in his driveway.

But these things keep rolling around in my head: Danny Camm and Boney went to school together. Danny supposedly forged Kim's name on a life insurance policy shortly before the murders. David was the only one with motive, although Danny and Boney could benifit financially. Accidental death pays double with insurance policies. David needed a scapegoat. David had blood spatter AND tissue on his clothing. The defense can't prove that it was transfer (no brush stroke pattern from Jill's hair), but the prosecution has proven that it was spatter (the tissue was imbedded).

Boney had no motive whatsoever to do this alone. I see the armed robbery, but no burglar would park near the house he was going to rob. If he was inside the house, looting through it, wouldn't he have heard the garage door coming up and Kim pulling in? Why wouldn't he have run out the back door or something? If he was in the garage and Kim was pulling in, if she saw him why would she pull right on in, and then exit her vehicle not knowing who this man was with her two children in the truck with her?? She wouldn't. And again, why wouldn't Bonet just flee? He had taken nothing and being charged with suspicion of robbery or trespassing, etc is a far cry from MURDER. Why would he leave his sweatshirt there? If he was alone and intent on robbery, who ever heard of an armed robber carrying his weapon in a sweatshirt?? Kinda hard to conceal, wouldn't you think?

It just reeks of Camm being involved.

JCinSI

Bobbisangel
02-23-2006, 11:02 PM
I know I'm coming in late in this trial, but I have been reading and researching for days. I don't see how these things could be coincedence.

This is taken from an article written for Wave3 news on May 18, 2005. "Boney wrestled at New Albany High School in 1987. At the time, he went by Darnell. Among his 240 classmates was Danny Camm-- David Camm's younger brother." www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3015135&nav=ORZFWxcD

This is the same brother who was suspected of forging Kim Camm's name on the insurance policy shortly before the murders.

This makes me wonder if the two brothers weren't conspiring together on this. Its hard for me to think that TWO members of a good family would commit such a crime though. It does seem reasonable, however, that Camm used Bonet for more than just buying the gun.

Isn't it possible that Camm left the church by one of the back entrances, placing something slim and unnnoticeable in between the tongue and groove of the self-locking doorjam? He could have sprinted to one of the other dead-end roads nearby, being picked up by Boney. He couldn't leave in his truck, too noticeable. He couldn't run the whole way there and back, too lengthy. This would coincide with Boney's statement of Kim seeing him and Camm in the driveway. Anything Camm didn't want at the scene would have left with Boney to be disposed of (possibly a jacket he may have worn, etc), and Boney could have taken him back to a drop-off point so Camm could sprint back to the church and let himself back in the door he had rigged. The short run back to the church would have kept Camm warmed up and sweating, looking like he'd been playing ball. Its all just what if's and theory, but the timeline is possible. The fact that Boney lied about so many things would even make sense. The way Boney tells it, he had little to do with it, even though he'd been there when it happened. Were the theory I mentioned true, Boney couldn't tell it because it further incriminates him.

It was pretty stupid of Boney to state that Camm had come back to the driveway, pointed the gun at him and pulled the trigger, only to hear a dry click (misfire). Why would Camm do this? How would he explain Boney's body?! Or how the same weapon that killed his family killed this mystery man in his driveway.

But these things keep rolling around in my head: Danny Camm and Boney went to school together. Danny supposedly forged Kim's name on a life insurance policy shortly before the murders. David was the only one with motive, although Danny and Boney could benifit financially. Accidental death pays double with insurance policies. David needed a scapegoat. David had blood spatter AND tissue on his clothing. The defense can't prove that it was transfer (no brush stroke pattern from Jill's hair), but the prosecution has proven that it was spatter (the tissue was imbedded).

Boney had no motive whatsoever to do this alone. I see the armed robbery, but no burglar would park near the house he was going to rob. If he was inside the house, looting through it, wouldn't he have heard the garage door coming up and Kim pulling in? Why wouldn't he have run out the back door or something? If he was in the garage and Kim was pulling in, if she saw him why would she pull right on in, and then exit her vehicle not knowing who this man was with her two children in the truck with her?? She wouldn't. And again, why wouldn't Bonet just flee? He had taken nothing and being charged with suspicion of robbery or trespassing, etc is a far cry from MURDER. Why would he leave his sweatshirt there? If he was alone and intent on robbery, who ever heard of an armed robber carrying his weapon in a sweatshirt?? Kinda hard to conceal, wouldn't you think?

It just reeks of Camm being involved.

JCinSI




I wonder if Camm got Bonet to help him and then planned to pull the gun on Bonet and kill him...wiping his own prints off the gun and placing it in Bonet's hand like he killed the family and then killed himself. Camm was supposedly at the church not knowing what had happened. That might have worked if he hadn't run out of bullets....if Bonet is telling the truth. If Camm had killed Bonet there wouldn't have been anyone to tell what happened. Hope Camm doesn't get away with these murders.

Kimmer
02-24-2006, 02:18 PM
Here is where I am totally confused and I have been on this case since the beginning....how do you charge Charles Boney with conspiracy with David Camm and then drop the Conspiracy charges against David.....How did Boney conspire if David didn't conspire with Boney.


I also feel there may be the opportunity for David to get away with this, I pray not but something is not right in this case, I really thought after the Boney trial he would testify against David, not only did that not happen, But just yesterday when Boney was sentenced he demanded the Judge give him the maximum his lawyer didnt even know he was going to do that in court. He was given 225 years so he will never leave prison...

There was 1 male juror taken off the jury this morning and replaced with an alternate the only reason given so far is personal reasons, This case is to be given to the jury next week, I think where the jury will have a problem is the defense is saying all the blood is transfer but none of there experts have been able to account for the tissue deposit so we can only hope that will be enough to get the jury to beleive Camm was at the scene.

I really would like to write a book on this mess and what a mess it has been with more twists and turns I am surprised more media has not picked up this story.

Waiting for the Verdict,

Kimmer-Jeffersonville Indiana

Goody
02-24-2006, 08:45 PM
Here is where I am totally confused and I have been on this case since the beginning....how do you charge Charles Boney with conspiracy with David Camm and then drop the Conspiracy charges against David.....How did Boney conspire if David didn't conspire with Boney.


I also feel there may be the opportunity for David to get away with this, I pray not but something is not right in this case, I really thought after the Boney trial he would testify against David, not only did that not happen, But just yesterday when Boney was sentenced he demanded the Judge give him the maximum his lawyer didnt even know he was going to do that in court. He was given 225 years so he will never leave prison...

There was 1 male juror taken off the jury this morning and replaced with an alternate the only reason given so far is personal reasons, This case is to be given to the jury next week, I think where the jury will have a problem is the defense is saying all the blood is transfer but none of there experts have been able to account for the tissue deposit so we can only hope that will be enough to get the jury to beleive Camm was at the scene.

I really would like to write a book on this mess and what a mess it has been with more twists and turns I am surprised more media has not picked up this story.

Waiting for the Verdict,

Kimmer-Jeffersonville Indiana
Well, let us know if you do. This sounds like a really good case. Are the transcipts posted anywhere?

Kimmer
02-24-2006, 09:18 PM
no there are no transcripts posted but if you go to louisville ky wave 3 news or whas 11 news online they have daily blogs from daily reporters inside the court room there were no camera's allowed inside on this case.


If I do decide to write a book I will let you know i will let you all know but to go thru the first set of transcripts plus the new ones on David and Boney will take quite some time to get thru...I will talk to Kim's sister and brother-in-law since I know them before write about the case.

joe jones
02-26-2006, 09:12 AM
latest news is that the prosecution may use the fact that jill was allegedly sexually abused by her father as a motive for the murders in the states closing argument,


a bit risky as this was one of the reasons he won his appeal, that and the affairs, and the affairs have not been intoduced into this trial,

I think this is a very weak case, if he did shoot them surely they would not be arguing over a few spots of blood/dna on his t shirt but loads of evidence,

I am not sure of his guilt or innocence but the state has not proven its case to me,

amd Boney being involved makes it even more bizarre, if all Camm wanted was Boneys gun why was Boney needed at the murders, surely Camm would not want a man like Boney to know his secrets, and even if he wished to frame Boney, Boney could also put him in the frame,

I await the jury verdict, think it may be hung, as some will possibly think Boney did it all by himself,

and I don't fool myself that the jury does not know about Boneys conviction,

nanandjim
02-27-2006, 08:11 PM
I know I'm coming in late in this trial, but I have been reading and researching for days. I don't see how these things could be coincedence.

This is taken from an article written for Wave3 news on May 18, 2005. "Boney wrestled at New Albany High School in 1987. At the time, he went by Darnell. Among his 240 classmates was Danny Camm-- David Camm's younger brother." www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3015135&nav=ORZFWxcD

This is the same brother who was suspected of forging Kim Camm's name on the insurance policy shortly before the murders.
JCinSI

Wasn't this the brother who lived in Florida and couldn't legally write the policy for some reason?? Did the prosecution mention this and other insurance policies??

tybee204
02-28-2006, 08:15 PM
The case is now with the Jury

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=4564779&nav=menu31_3
(BOONVILLE, Ind.) -- After hearing from more than 70 witnesses during six weeks of testimony, the jury is now deliberating the fate of David Camm, the former Indiana State trooper on trial second time for killing his wife Kim, and their two children, Brad and Jill in September of 2000. WAVE 3's James Zambroski reports.

nanandjim
02-28-2006, 11:54 PM
The case is now with the Jury...
Lord, I hope that they reach the correct verdict, and justice is served for the three victims.

JCinSI
03-03-2006, 11:47 PM
The deliberation is finally over, the news coverage is still going on, but the verdict has been released, and David Camm has been found GUILTY for the second time! His attorney Katherine Leill (sp?) has announced during her interview that she has the appeal ready on David's behalf. She will be submitting 4 points for her appeal.
1: Jill's supposed molestation being admissable.
2: Boney's confession NOT being permissable.
3: Boney's fetishes not being permissable.
4: Women being wrongly excused for the jury selection.

I think the last point Camm's attorney made about women being wrongly excused from jury selection was quite odd, considering she said previously that she was pleased with the jury and had the utmost faith in their ability to reach a fair verdict.

I hope the families on both sides can finally reach closure on this.
God Bless.
JCinSI

Kimmer
03-03-2006, 11:47 PM
GUILTY ON ALL 3 COUNTS---justice has been served for Kim, Jill, Bradley and the Renn and Karem family's.........



David Raye Camm Guilty :behindbar

tybee204
03-04-2006, 12:05 AM
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=4569345

BOONVILLE, Ind.) -- After deliberating for dozens of hours over four days, a jury has found David Camm guilty of gunning down his wife, Kim, and their two children, Brad and Jill, in the garage of their Georgetown home on September 28, 2000.

The jury got the case early the morning of Tuesday, Feb. 28th. They had no questions or requests until late Thursday afternoon, when they asked to see a transcript of Camm's conversations with police just before he was arrested.

The verdict was read about 10:15 p.m. eastern time Friday.

Bobbisangel
03-04-2006, 04:25 AM
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=4569345

BOONVILLE, Ind.) -- After deliberating for dozens of hours over four days, a jury has found David Camm guilty of gunning down his wife, Kim, and their two children, Brad and Jill, in the garage of their Georgetown home on September 28, 2000.

The jury got the case early the morning of Tuesday, Feb. 28th. They had no questions or requests until late Thursday afternoon, when they asked to see a transcript of Camm's conversations with police just before he was arrested.

The verdict was read about 10:15 p.m. eastern time Friday.



That is music to my ears ;) I was so afraid that they weren't going to convict him because of the people that said he was at the game. There is no way he could have gotten the DNA on his shirt without being right there. Thank God the jury realized that too.

nanandjim
03-05-2006, 03:08 PM
...It was pretty stupid of Boney to state that Camm had come back to the driveway, pointed the gun at him and pulled the trigger, only to hear a dry click (misfire). Why would Camm do this? How would he explain Boney's body?! Or how the same weapon that killed his family killed this mystery man in his driveway...
It makes sense to me that Camm would try to kill Boney to keep him from talking. Camm could have said that he came home, found his family dead and the murderer still at the scene. He could have made up a story about having wrestled the gun from him and shooting him in the process or somehow killing the murderer in a struggle.

What doesn't make sense to me is that Boney would enter the garage after Camm tried to shoot him. Why would you do that? It would have been obvious that Camm was trying to double cross him at that point. Wouldn't your gut instinct be to get away while you could?

In any case, I don't think that we will ever know the true events of that evening. I believe that both Camm and Boney were present during the murders. I don't know which one committed the murders, but I feel that Camm had the motive and promised to pay Boney for his part.

Kimmer
03-11-2006, 09:25 AM
if anyone is interested in the day to day court blogs they can be found at whas 11 tv once you go in on the left column go to blogs and then pull up David Camm Trial this is definatly and interesting read, after reading the evidence that was put on by the case, I am certainly not saying Camm is innocent but I will say that I would not have wanted to be on the jury, as to I believe there is definatly resonable doubt as to his guilt. I have been a person who due to media reports have always belived in his guilt but I will say after reviewing the eveidence that was given I have questions....Kim Camms Autopsy report gave me reason for pause...Grass on her feet was never explained as well as I have not been able to figure out since there appeared to be a struggle why nothing was ever said about dna under her fingernail being tested and when the police thought there was a cleanup at the scene (this is the main reason Camm was originally arrested) there was never any Luminal used to test the crime scence.
Something just doesnt set well with me on this case, If anyone looks at this information and would like to discuss the facts given in this case I would be interested.

nanandjim
03-17-2006, 11:27 AM
Here is a link to the site to which I think Kimmer is referring:
http://www.beloblog.com/WHAS_Blogs/CammBoney_Blog/

nanandjim
04-13-2006, 12:44 PM
Here is a link to another interesting article.

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=4341169

Let's hope that this verdict does not get overturned.

kcksum
12-12-2006, 10:30 AM
i think this trial was as huge a mistake as the west memphis three trial. This man had minute specks of blood on his shirt after admitting to reaching over the body of his daughter to get to his son. Back splash from a point blank gun shot would have splashed him in a whole lot more places. A man with 11 felony convictions and whose clothing was found at the scene has admitted to committing these murders, and previously said he had never laid eyes on David camm.

This is a case where prosecutres screwed up the original evidence amd didn't want to admit they were wrong so they re tried an innnocent man to save face.
I do not believe the evidence points to anyone other than Bonet. There were 11 eye witnesses who placed Camm at a location other than the crime.

He was convicted in the first trial because he was an adulterer, and on bogus molestation evidence and claims. He had been begging for someone to test that sweat shirt and they didn't even bother. After the verdict was overturned and he got his hands on that sweatshirt they found their man. The prosecution was just too arrogant to admitt they had the wrong guy all along.
Ther were just as many experts who said the blood was not high resolution splatter as there were that did. How this jury convicted this man is beyond me.....wait.......oh yeah they didn't KNOW that Bonet has 11 other episodes of violent behavior with a deadly weapon. They didn't know that he had a known sexual fetish that he had acted on before......they didn't KNOW that a man had ALREADY been convicted of this crime in another courtroom miles away.

I so hope this conviction is overturned. Justice has been served to the three victims because Bonet is behind bars. However, a great in justice has been served to David Camm in my opinion.

nanandjim
12-12-2006, 12:20 PM
i think this trial was as huge a mistake as the west memphis three trial. This man had minute specks of blood on his shirt after admitting to reaching over the body of his daughter to get to his son. Back splash from a point blank gun shot would have splashed him in a whole lot more places. A man with 11 felony convictions and whose clothing was found at the scene has admitted to committing these murders, and previously said he had never laid eyes on David camm.

This is a case where prosecutres screwed up the original evidence amd didn't want to admit they were wrong so they re tried an innnocent man to save face.
I do not believe the evidence points to anyone other than Bonet. There were 11 eye witnesses who placed Camm at a location other than the crime.

He was convicted in the first trial because he was an adulterer, and on bogus molestation evidence and claims. He had been begging for someone to test that sweat shirt and they didn't even bother. After the verdict was overturned and he got his hands on that sweatshirt they found their man. The prosecution was just too arrogant to admitt they had the wrong guy all along.
Ther were just as many experts who said the blood was not high resolution splatter as there were that did. How this jury convicted this man is beyond me.....wait.......oh yeah they didn't KNOW that Bonet has 11 other episodes of violent behavior with a deadly weapon. They didn't know that he had a known sexual fetish that he had acted on before......they didn't KNOW that a man had ALREADY been convicted of this crime in another courtroom miles away.

I so hope this conviction is overturned. Justice has been served to the three victims because Bonet is behind bars. However, a great in justice has been served to David Camm in my opinion.
This is your opinion. It is not the opinion of two sets of jurors or mine. I think Camm is guilty as the day is long. He was very clever in the way that he planned the murders; however, not clever enough.

What motive did Bonet have for murdering this family as they drove into the garage. There was nothing taken. That blood spatter was from high velocity gun residue and I believe that there was a speck of blood on his shoes. He would have changed the shirt had he seen the microscopic blood. It was invisible to the naked eye. I don't buy the brushing up against Jill's hair. It would have been all over his shirt.

If I were a betting person, I'd say that his chances of having the verdict reversed are slim to none. IMO, he is right where he belongs.

BTW, the ME says that Jill was blunt force trauma to her vaginal area consistent with sexual abuse. I guess that she is wrong, too. :rolleyes:

detectivewannabe
12-12-2006, 04:24 PM
KC, just out of curiousity, did you see the 48 Hours investigation the other night? Is that what you are basing your opinion on? I have followed this case from the beginning and watched that program the other night and for one second I thought he was innocent but then I went back to this thread and remembered alot of things that were not mentioned in that episode. I can't say I believe he pulled the trigger, but I believe he was there at some point during the shootings. Why would he reach over his little girl to get his son? Why not pull her out first, since she was closest to him, then pull his son out? Like Nanandjim said; what motive would Boney have? He did not sexually assault Kim, he didn't steal anything. Didn't they live kinda out of the way? Why go all that way and do nothing but kill someone and 2 little kids?

You have your opinion and I respect that. I was just curious on how you got your information via television, books, newspaper or people.

Thanks
dwb

Jade
12-12-2006, 05:28 PM
I'm not real well read on this case but I did see the 48 hours program and D. Camm was doing the crying without tears thing.


http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=4569345 (http://)
When a reporter asked Kim's father, Frank Renn, what he planned to do over the weekend, he replied: "I've got a case of beer to get rid of." Renn said he had no expectation that Camm would ever admit to the crimes or apologize. "I watched him a little bit when he came in tonight ... and when they read the verdict, he still had that same look like it didn't bother him a bit. So he's a sociopath, just like Boney was."

Camm is sneaky as evidenced by his string of affairs.

http://www.wlky.com/news/1213411/detail.html (http://) Lead prosecutor Stan Faith called the testimony "just the tip of the iceberg."
"It shows how he feels about his family," Faith said. "It shows the value he puts on his marriage. If you notice today he's talking to at least three woman about how he's not getting along with Kim. Another time he said he can't afford to leave her because she makes the most money."

nanandjim
12-13-2006, 01:09 PM
...Why would he reach over his little girl to get his son?...
I believe Boney when he said that he heard the little boy scream, "Daddy." I think that is why Camm tears up when talking about his son. He knew that his son had seen him. Jill and Kim were shot in the head and his son was shot in the chest. I believe that his son was shot trying to climb into the back of the SUV in a vain attempt to hide. I believe that Camm did reach into the back seat to shake Bradley or to some way check to make sure that Bradley was dead. I don't however believe that he brushed up against Jill to do so. He thought of that later as an excuse for the microscopic blood found on his shirt. Perhaps, most of the blood was on a pair of short which he changed. Perhaps, he didn't see any blood at the bottom of his shirt. So, he didn't feel a need to change the shirt.

What convinces me even more that Camm did this crime is that he insists that he didn't even know Boney. Since he didn't know Boney (according to him), it would make it even less likely that Boney would just find this house, lay in wait for someone to come home and then to systematically murder a woman and her children.

If Boney were a stranger, how would he know that a husband wouldn't arrive home or that someone would come through the front door? Sorry, it just doesn't' make sense.

What I would like to know is how Boney's sweatshirt was left at the scene. Did he know that he left it there? I think at one time I read that the gun that Boney gave to Camm was wrapped in that sweatshirt. I do believe that Camm set up Boney to take the fall. Too bad for him that police didn't believe that it was Boney acting alone.

nanandjim
12-13-2006, 01:13 PM
I'm not real well read on this case but I did see the 48 hours program and D. Camm was doing the crying without tears thing.


http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=4569345 (http://)
When a reporter asked Kim's father, Frank Renn, what he planned to do over the weekend, he replied: "I've got a case of beer to get rid of." Renn said he had no expectation that Camm would ever admit to the crimes or apologize. "I watched him a little bit when he came in tonight ... and when they read the verdict, he still had that same look like it didn't bother him a bit. So he's a sociopath, just like Boney was."

Camm is sneaky as evidenced by his string of affairs.

http://www.wlky.com/news/1213411/detail.html (http://) Lead prosecutor Stan Faith called the testimony "just the tip of the iceberg."
"It shows how he feels about his family," Faith said. "It shows the value he puts on his marriage. If you notice today he's talking to at least three woman about how he's not getting along with Kim. Another time he said he can't afford to leave her because she makes the most money."
Hey Jade, I wasn't able to get to your links as you had them posted. So, I thought that I would put them in this post. Hope that they work. ;)

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=4569345
http://www.wlky.com/news/1213411/detail.html

Here is another article written by a journalist:
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=4341169

He talks about when he believed that Camm was guilty. He said it was when Sutton, a blood expert for the defense was on the stand being questioned by Prosecutor Henderson.

"He asked Sutton if she saw any signs of a smear or a streak when she examined the stains under a microscope? No, she answered.

He asked her how long it would take for blood drops that small to dry. She was vague on that point, saying it depended if they were flowing from the wound.

He then said, "Do you mean he (Camm) stepped inside the Bronco, touched his shirt to her hair (straight on), stepped back and moved away" leaving stains with no smears or blurriness."

So, the microscopic bloodstains which the defense insists was from Camm brushing up against his daughters hair had no smears or blurriness as would be caused from "brushing."

This journalist does however feel that Camm has a good chance of having the verdict overturned once again. I hope that he is wrong.

annrulefan
12-13-2006, 11:40 PM
I JUST got the book from Amazon. I am going to try to read it tonight. I think David Camm hired Boney to kill his wife and children. 48 hours did a great job going over the case, and I am interested in the book to see what new light it might shed into the case!

Boyz_Mum
12-14-2006, 10:14 AM
I had not heard of this case until it was shown on 48 Hours but I think they did a good job of showing all sides of the case. Personally I didn't find Camm very convincing and do think he was justly convicted. Boney talked a lot, but I think it would be very interesting to know if Camm had previous contact with Boney through earlier criminal enterprise (before the murders) because I didn't find Boney believeable when he stated that he knew Camm from basketball. Perhaps I will never know the answer, but a talkative guy like Boney is sure to be talking again?

AnnRuleFan, would you let us know your opinion on the book?

kcksum
12-14-2006, 11:22 AM
This is your opinion. It is not the opinion of two sets of jurors or mine. I think Camm is guilty as the day is long. He was very clever in the way that he planned the murders; however, not clever enough.

What motive did Bonet have for murdering this family as they drove into the garage. There was nothing taken. That blood spatter was from high velocity gun residue and I believe that there was a speck of blood on his shoes. He would have changed the shirt had he seen the microscopic blood. It was invisible to the naked eye. I don't buy the brushing up against Jill's hair. It would have been all over his shirt.

If I were a betting person, I'd say that his chances of having the verdict reversed are slim to none. IMO, he is right where he belongs.

BTW, the ME says that Jill was blunt force trauma to her vaginal area consistent with sexual abuse. I guess that she is wrong, too. :rolleyes:


The Me wasn't wrong, but no one knows who put that blunt force trauma there and there is no eveidence that David Camm ever abused his daughter. So don't be so quick to be smugg and assume that I have to ignore any evidence in order to form my opinion.
I would say Bonet who is a known offender with a sexually deviant past of attempting to abduct women at gunpoint to fufill his shoe fetish desires would be a higher suspect for sexually deviant behavior than david Camm.Maybe he caused the blunt force trauma to the little girls vaginal area. NO ONE EVER PROVED HOW THAT GOT THERE>>>>IT WAS A THEORY THOUGHT UP BY PROSECUTERS FOR MOTIVE! people have taken that theory and turned it into fact that David Camm was abusing his daughter. For all we know a freak at the grocery store molested her or she fell on a seesaw at school she's dead, she can't tell us.
We have Bonet's hand print on the Bronco, we have bonets shirt with DNA evidence on it (none of which is Camms) beside one of the dead bodies, and we have Bonets record of assault with a deadly weapon( a gun) more than 5 times (none of which those two juries got to hear about) They get to hear theories about Camm abusing his daughter that have no prooof backing them whatsoever, but they don't get to hear that the man convicted of this crime had a record of previous gun related crimes that he committed without the help of David Camm
Bonet managed to assault and terrorize other people before this murder, why do you think he would have trouble stalking and murdering a woman "all by himself"?
There was not enough physical evidence to convict David Camm, the jury wasn't given all of the story.
Yes this is my opinion, and the opinion of many other people. Just because 24 jurors convicted this man does not make him guilty. Many people have been exonerated who were convicted by 12 jurors in a court of law. That's why we have an appeals process.

kcksum
12-14-2006, 11:32 AM
KC, just out of curiousity, did you see the 48 Hours investigation the other night? Is that what you are basing your opinion on? I have followed this case from the beginning and watched that program the other night and for one second I thought he was innocent but then I went back to this thread and remembered alot of things that were not mentioned in that episode. I can't say I believe he pulled the trigger, but I believe he was there at some point during the shootings. Why would he reach over his little girl to get his son? Why not pull her out first, since she was closest to him, then pull his son out? Like Nanandjim said; what motive would Boney have? He did not sexually assault Kim, he didn't steal anything. Didn't they live kinda out of the way? Why go all that way and do nothing but kill someone and 2 little kids?

You have your opinion and I respect that. I was just curious on how you got your information via television, books, newspaper or people.

Thanks
dwb


Did see the 48 hours special,but have followed this case from the beginning though because I am KY native and it interested me. I feel like Camm should have never been investigated or charged in the first place. I think it was a rush to judgement and he had an 11 person solid alibi.
Bonet was a bad guy, real bad guy witha hx of sexually deviant behavior and assault with a deadly weapon. Who knows why he was there and killed them......Why did Sharon tate get slaughtered along with her friends in california....that house was out of the way, nothing was stolen,......sometimes criminals do really bad things for no other reason than to get their kicks. Most sociopaths don't ever have a really logical motive for their crimes.Bonet had a hx of violent behavior, why do people assume he couldn't have picked these victims like he picked his other victims all by himself. The conspiracy charge was thrown out, the court determined there was no evidence showing that Camm had ever met Bonet. How can we believe that he hired Bonet, when there was not even enough evidence to support a conspracy charge. What we're going to believe Bonet?
Bonet also said on camera that he had never met David Camm in his life.....which version are we to believe?
I just don't think he got a fair trial. There are people in Arkansas who believe the west memphis three are guilty as hell. I don't. I believe that there are lots of people in this country who don't get fair trials because of ego driven prosecuters who can't admit when they are wrong. I think Camm is one of those people. I thank God for the Appeals process and hope that it will work for Camm as well this time as it did the last time.
This is my opinion, it may not be the popular one but that's ok.

laini
12-14-2006, 03:04 PM
What is the name of the book? I hadn't heard of this case before 48 Mystery, either. I kept going back and forth as I watched it, becasue I didn't want to beleive he did it. But I believe he (Cam) is guilty. The thing that got to me was when Cam was asked aobut the sexual abuse of his daughter. He said simply he knew nothing about the sexual abuse". All the rantings by Cam about finding who the sweatshirt belonged to in order to find the killer (since he knew who it belonged to), why didn't emphasize that "who the hell was abusing my daughter?!" and maybe that person was the killer. (am I making sense here?) I got the impression that the sexual abuse of his daughter was irrelevant to him.

So does Cam believe Boney also sexually abused his daughter, or that was another bad guy he knew nothing about? (or is he trying to slip by that little fact because he abused her, which is why he had motive). All of the outrage over the injustice done to him, where is the outrage over his daughter being sexually abused?

Also, as someone else stated, why would he reach over his daughter to get his son.

Do you all think he put the shoes on the car later (before calling 911) as another piece to point to Boney?

kcksum
12-14-2006, 03:51 PM
What is the name of the book? I hadn't heard of this case before 48 Mystery, either. I kept going back and forth as I watched it, becasue I didn't want to beleive he did it. But I believe he (Cam) is guilty. The thing that got to me was when Cam was asked aobut the sexual abuse of his daughter. He said simply he knew nothing about the sexual abuse". All the rantings by Cam about finding who the sweatshirt belonged to in order to find the killer (since he knew who it belonged to), why didn't emphasize that "who the hell was abusing my daughter?!" and maybe that person was the killer. (am I making sense here?) I got the impression that the sexual abuse of his daughter was irrelevant to him.

So does Cam believe Boney also sexually abused his daughter, or that was another bad guy he knew nothing about? (or is he trying to slip by that little fact because he abused her, which is why he had motive). All of the outrage over the injustice done to him, where is the outrage over his daughter being sexually abused?

Also, as someone else stated, why would he reach over his daughter to get his son.

Do you all think he put the shoes on the car later (before calling 911) as another piece to point to Boney?

I have always felt he reached over his daughter because she had a massive head wound and was obviously dead, where as the son was shot in the chest, so his face probably appeared un marked. He may have thought there was a chance his son was alive still
I work in an emergency room trauma center and head wounds are ghastly, there really is no doubt that the individual is deceased based on the ones I have seen.

As far as outrage over the little girls sexual abuse, I don't see where me having outrage over what I believe is being done to Camm negates or says I lack empathy and outrage for the victims?.I am very sad for the loss of these innocent lives, I just believe Camm not to be guilty of the crime...we know she had blunt force trauma to her vaginal area that was anywhere from 1-24 hours old (oh wait and expert CHANGED their testimony to say it could be 48 hours old at the second trial).
I think it is an outrage when any child is sexually abused. She will never be able to tell us where those injury's came from, we will never know unless someone comes up with some dna of David Camms on that vaginal area, we can not say it was him. He had never been accused or thought to be molesting his daughter or anyone else before hand....it is all speculation. I would say it is a huge outrage to acuse a man of sexually assaulting his daughter who also happens to be murdered if he didn't do it. Are you aware that there was not even enough evidence to formally charge Camm with sexual abuse, but they used the theory to assume that was his motive. Not enough evidence to charge him, but they use it to pinn the murders of his three family members on him.That stinks to me.Camm has never said he thinks Bonet molested his daughter, I am the one that said I would have an easier time believing a man with past convictions for sexually deviant behavior whose hand print was on the bronco and who we know was there would have caused that blunt force trauma to the vaginal area, than I would believing Camm who has an 11 person alibi and who had never been accused of or convicted of molesting anyone. He may have been a scum bag in the husband department and a womanizer....but I will not accuse a man of raping his daughter on specualtion and theory.

As far as the shoes, Bonet says he tripped over them and then put them on top of the car. Why were they off of her feet?Why would David stand back and shoot her in the head, leaving her in the car and then take her shoes off? Why would a law enforcement officer risk the possibility of evidence transfer? The only person who would take the shoes off of a execution victim is someone with a very bad shoe fetish, Bonet has past convictions of this.Shoes were his thing and they got him off. Maybe bonet saw her out with these shoes on and followed her home, he had been known to follow and stalk women in colege who had shoes on that he liked.

detectivewannabe
12-14-2006, 04:52 PM
KC, you make some very good points;) Let me ask your opinion on the fact Boney's shirt was left in the back seat. What is you opinion on why he left it. Do you think he was careless? Why would he have taken it off anyway? It didn't have a large amount of high velocity blood splatter on it; so obviously he wasn't wearing it when he shot the three of them. Also, I thought Kim was found on the floor in the garage hence the blood trail down the driveway that David saw when he first pulled up.

I'm not trying to argue and would love to hear more of your theories. I'm not sure about the molestation on Jill. I understand she had trauma (no denial there) but it could have been from an accident on her bike (like 48 hours pointed out)

I know the conspiricy charge was thrown out, but do you believe in every possible way that David is innocent? Could it be possible that Camm hired Boney?

Just want to hear more of your thoughts since I find them very thought provoking.

dwb

Jade
12-14-2006, 05:21 PM
David Camm said his son was the only one warm. The son was shot in the shoulder and although paralyzed was thought to have lived and been conscious for some time.

The injuries to Kim’s feet are of interest. Would like to have more information on that. Could she have taken off her work shoes and put on something more comfortable for the after school activities and those were wrenched from her feet and then Boney saw the bonus work shoes and tried to get them but leaving them in haste when Camm turned on him but escaping with the comfy pair she had on?

IMHO David Camm is guilty as charged. I do not consider the words of his friends and family as an ironclad alibi, maybe security camera footage would be. Camm was too practiced at deceiving his loved ones for me to believe what they thought was true. And he has no alibi for before or after the game. It could have happened then.

Patricide is not as unusual as we would like to think. Finding a reasonable motive from a sociopath is an act of futility but I do think that he wanted to be free and clear of the family with money from the insurance policy on them to start his new life. I’m sorry but a serial womanizer is a bad trait. If it can be believed that pot can lead to harder drugs can’t lying and cheating on your wife and family lead to other crimes – I think so as evidenced by all the other cheating, murdering husbands.

Camm was sexually inappropriate in fact aggressively so. Check nananjim’s link above. Frankly I can’t get all that outraged over him possibly being falsely accused of assaulting his daughter since he isn’t so worked up himself about it.

kcksum
12-14-2006, 10:30 PM
David Camm said his son was the only one warm. The son was shot in the shoulder and although paralyzed was thought to have lived and been conscious for some time.

The injuries to Kim’s feet are of interest. Would like to have more information on that. Could she have taken off her work shoes and put on something more comfortable for the after school activities and those were wrenched from her feet and then Boney saw the bonus work shoes and tried to get them but leaving them in haste when Camm turned on him but escaping with the comfy pair she had on?

IMHO David Camm is guilty as charged. I do not consider the words of his friends and family as an ironclad alibi, maybe security camera footage would be. Camm was too practiced at deceiving his loved ones for me to believe what they thought was true. And he has no alibi for before or after the game. It could have happened then.

Patricide is not as unusual as we would like to think. Finding a reasonable motive from a sociopath is an act of futility but I do think that he wanted to be free and clear of the family with money from the insurance policy on them to start his new life. I’m sorry but a serial womanizer is a bad trait. If it can be believed that pot can lead to harder drugs can’t lying and cheating on your wife and family lead to other crimes – I think so as evidenced by all the other cheating, murdering husbands.

Camm was sexually inappropriate in fact aggressively so. Check nananjim’s link above. Frankly I can’t get all that outraged over him possibly being falsely accused of assaulting his daughter since he isn’t so worked up himself about it.

I don't think we can no one way or the other if Camm was worked up over the alleged abuse or not. He simply stated that he knew nothing about any sexual abuse involving his daughter. It was a 3 second clip and so i wont assume he just never even cared.

Some of the men who swear Camm was at the gym were not family members, and it can't be assumed they were all his friends. My husband plays basketball at church every thursday night and there are tons of guys that come and play who don't even attend our church. I could understand one or two manufacturing an alibi, but 11 different sets of eyes say they were playing basketball with him. According to the prosecutions time line, Camm could not have killed them before going to the gym or after because of time of death. He would have had to be there, leave and kill his family, and then come back in order for their theory to work.

laini
12-14-2006, 11:35 PM
I have always felt he reached over his daughter because she had a massive head wound and was obviously dead, where as the son was shot in the chest, so his face probably appeared un marked. He may have thought there was a chance his son was alive still
I work in an emergency room trauma center and head wounds are ghastly, there really is no doubt that the individual is deceased based on the ones I have seen.

As far as outrage over the little girls sexual abuse, I don't see where me having outrage over what I believe is being done to Camm negates or says I lack empathy and outrage for the victims?.I am very sad for the loss of these innocent lives, I just believe Camm not to be guilty of the crime...we know she had blunt force trauma to her vaginal area that was anywhere from 1-24 hours old (oh wait and expert CHANGED their testimony to say it could be 48 hours old at the second trial).
I think it is an outrage when any child is sexually abused. She will never be able to tell us where those injury's came from, we will never know unless someone comes up with some dna of David Camms on that vaginal area, we can not say it was him. He had never been accused or thought to be molesting his daughter or anyone else before hand....it is all speculation. I would say it is a huge outrage to acuse a man of sexually assaulting his daughter who also happens to be murdered if he didn't do it. Are you aware that there was not even enough evidence to formally charge Camm with sexual abuse, but they used the theory to assume that was his motive. Not enough evidence to charge him, but they use it to pinn the murders of his three family members on him.That stinks to me.Camm has never said he thinks Bonet molested his daughter, I am the one that said I would have an easier time believing a man with past convictions for sexually deviant behavior whose hand print was on the bronco and who we know was there would have caused that blunt force trauma to the vaginal area, than I would believing Camm who has an 11 person alibi and who had never been accused of or convicted of molesting anyone. He may have been a scum bag in the husband department and a womanizer....but I will not accuse a man of raping his daughter on specualtion and theory.

As far as the shoes, Bonet says he tripped over them and then put them on top of the car. Why were they off of her feet?Why would David stand back and shoot her in the head, leaving her in the car and then take her shoes off? Why would a law enforcement officer risk the possibility of evidence transfer? The only person who would take the shoes off of a execution victim is someone with a very bad shoe fetish, Bonet has past convictions of this.Shoes were his thing and they got him off. Maybe bonet saw her out with these shoes on and followed her home, he had been known to follow and stalk women in colege who had shoes on that he liked.

kcksum,
I meant where was Cam's outrage over the abuse. Not ours or yours. Sorry about that. :) And of course, he may have been outraged. They just didn't show him saying anything about it except "I don't know anything about that". So maybe Cam's statementws about the abuse were just cut from teh show. Sometimes when I post it comes out wrong. :o
And you do make a good point about the daughter being obviously deceased probably, where as his son probably didn't look as serious.

nanandjim
12-15-2006, 12:08 PM
kcksum,
I meant where was Cam's outrage over the abuse. Not ours or yours. Sorry about that. :) And of course, he may have been outraged. They just didn't show him saying anything about it except "I don't know anything about that". So maybe Cam's statementws about the abuse were just cut from teh show. Sometimes when I post it comes out wrong. :o
And you do make a good point about the daughter being obviously deceased probably, where as his son probably didn't look as serious.
If he checked his son (which he could very well have), I believe it was to ensure that the boy was dead.

The blood on his shirt was not smeared as it would have been if Cam brushed his daughter's hair, it was microscopic blood drops from blow back caused by a gunshot. Even his own defense expert could have explain why it wasn't smeared.

Eyewitness accounts are the most unreliable testimony above all else. Plus, not ALL could be sure that Camm was there. Camm was clever to play the first game, sit out the second game and then play the last game. This would give the impression that he was there the entire time. The players were focusing on the game, not Camm.

Camm could have committed this crime in 15 minutes or less. He lived very close to the location where they were playing basketball. I believe that he slipped out during the second set. I also believe that Camm played often with this group of guys and had never left the game before. This would also be set in the guys' subconscious minds. Oh, yes, I give Camm a B+ for his cleverness.

Camm was not the breadwinner in this family. He did however enjoy the comforts of being married and running around on his wife. That was coming to a screeching halt.

Also, please explain the life insurance policy on Kim, which was written by Camm's brother who lives in Florida. This brother submitted illegal documents stating that Kim was a resident of Florida (a requirement for him to be able to write the policy).

There are just so many little things that I think that both juries heard that convinced them that Camm was guilty. Who knows--he may get his shot at a third trial.

I also do not believe that Jill severely injured her private area on a bicycle in the hours before her death. How coincidental. Since I don't believe in coincidences, I don't believe in this remote possibility.

Another thing that I found odd was Camm did not tear up when discussing his daughter's death. However, he did tear up over the discussion concerning his son. I know that I am really speculating as to the reason for this. I believe that he did abuse his daughter and she may have told her mother. If so, Camm could blame the daughter for Kim leaving him and the subsequent actions that followed.

I also believe that Bradley was not killed instantly as Kim and Jill were and that he said something to his father to indicate that he knew that he was the killer. I don't think Camm would have had the same reaction had Bradley died instantly without knowing who killed him.

laini
12-15-2006, 02:12 PM
If he checked his son (which he could very well have), I believe it was to ensure that the boy was dead.

The blood on his shirt was not smeared as it would have been if Cam brushed his daughter's hair, it was microscopic blood drops from blow back caused by a gunshot. Even his own defense expert could have explain why it wasn't smeared.

Eyewitness accounts are the most unreliable testimony above all else. Plus, not ALL could be sure that Camm was there. Camm was clever to play the first game, sit out the second game and then play the last game. This would give the impression that he was there the entire time. The players were focusing on the game, not Camm.

Camm could have committed this crime in 15 minutes or less. He lived very close to the location where they were playing basketball. I believe that he slipped out during the second set. I also believe that Camm played often with this group of guys and had never left the game before. This would also be set in the guys' subconscious minds. Oh, yes, I give Camm a B+ for his cleverness.

Camm was not the breadwinner in this family. He did however enjoy the comforts of being married and running around on his wife. That was coming to a screeching halt.

Also, please explain the life insurance policy on Kim, which was written by Camm's brother who lives in Florida. This brother submitted illegal documents stating that Kim was a resident of Florida (a requirement for him to be able to write the policy).

There are just so many little things that I think that both juries heard that convinced them that Camm was guilty. Who knows--he may get his shot at a third trial.

I also do not believe that Jill severely injured her private area on a bicycle in the hours before her death. How coincidental. Since I don't believe in coincidences, I don't believe in this remote possibility.

Another thing that I found odd was Camm did not tear up when discussing his daughter's death. However, he did tear up over the discussion concerning his son. I know that I am really speculating as to the reason for this. I believe that he did abuse his daughter and she may have told her mother. If so, Camm could blame the daughter for Kim leaving him and the subsequent actions that followed.

I also believe that Bradley was not killed instantly as Kim and Jill were and that he said something to his father to indicate that he knew that he was the killer. I don't think Camm would have had the same reaction had Bradley died instantly without knowing who killed him.
Excellent post. I agree on many things you said!! :)

Garnan
12-20-2006, 01:14 PM
Hi kcksum, Sharon Tate's home was selected as the target, not Sharon Tate. It didn't have anything to do with location, it was a vendetta against a previous tennant. Charlie Manson didn't realize he no longer lived there, but also didn't really care. His instructions were to kill everyone in the house.

Also, I NEVER drive with shoes on. Ever. I know other women who don't either. If her shoes were off and close to the door, they may have fallen out when he opened the door.

kcksum
12-20-2006, 02:24 PM
Hi kcksum, Sharon Tate's home was selected as the target, not Sharon Tate. It didn't have anything to do with location, it was a vendetta against a previous tennant. Charlie Manson didn't realize he no longer lived there, but also didn't really care. His instructions were to kill everyone in the house.

Also, I NEVER drive with shoes on. Ever. I know other women who don't either. If her shoes were off and close to the door, they may have fallen out when he opened the door.

didn't know that about the manson murders, I used a bad example. My point was that criminals sometimes pick random homes and victims to harm regardless of its location or who lived there. I think it highly probable that a known sexual deviant would follow a woman home especially since he had a past record of stalking women on campus who were wearing shoes he admired.Bonet was a sick individual and my point was that it just isn't true that the only way he would have been at the Camm house would be if David had hired and directed him there.
I was the victim of a home invasion at 145 am by two young assailants. We did not know them from Adam and no one else had sent them there. It was completely random and had they killed us all, I would have hated for someone I know to have been charged and convicted because no one believed these guys could have just picked our house randomly. Random crimes do occure.

kcksum
12-20-2006, 02:27 PM
If he checked his son (which he could very well have), I believe it was to ensure that the boy was dead.

The blood on his shirt was not smeared as it would have been if Cam brushed his daughter's hair, it was microscopic blood drops from blow back caused by a gunshot. Even his own defense expert could have explain why it wasn't smeared.

Eyewitness accounts are the most unreliable testimony above all else. Plus, not ALL could be sure that Camm was there. Camm was clever to play the first game, sit out the second game and then play the last game. This would give the impression that he was there the entire time. The players were focusing on the game, not Camm.

Camm could have committed this crime in 15 minutes or less. He lived very close to the location where they were playing basketball. I believe that he slipped out during the second set. I also believe that Camm played often with this group of guys and had never left the game before. This would also be set in the guys' subconscious minds. Oh, yes, I give Camm a B+ for his cleverness.

Camm was not the breadwinner in this family. He did however enjoy the comforts of being married and running around on his wife. That was coming to a screeching halt.

Also, please explain the life insurance policy on Kim, which was written by Camm's brother who lives in Florida. This brother submitted illegal documents stating that Kim was a resident of Florida (a requirement for him to be able to write the policy).

There are just so many little things that I think that both juries heard that convinced them that Camm was guilty. Who knows--he may get his shot at a third trial.

I also do not believe that Jill severely injured her private area on a bicycle in the hours before her death. How coincidental. Since I don't believe in coincidences, I don't believe in this remote possibility.

Another thing that I found odd was Camm did not tear up when discussing his daughter's death. However, he did tear up over the discussion concerning his son. I know that I am really speculating as to the reason for this. I believe that he did abuse his daughter and she may have told her mother. If so, Camm could blame the daughter for Kim leaving him and the subsequent actions that followed.

I also believe that Bradley was not killed instantly as Kim and Jill were and that he said something to his father to indicate that he knew that he was the killer. I don't think Camm would have had the same reaction had Bradley died instantly without knowing who killed him.the prosecution can'thave it both ways.
Either he did this alone in 15 min while in between games, or he met up with Bonet and bought a gun and went with Bonet to the house to do this thing which would have taken well over 15 min. So you either have to believe all 11 men were mistaken or that it didn't happen the way the prosecution contends. Since Bonet was convicted, then we must believe it was theory #2 by the prosecution. I wish Bonet could have been connected to Camm on something other than his known lying mouth. That may have persuaded me one way or the other.They couldn't even make a conspiracy charge stick.They want me to believe that Camm worked with Bonet to kill his family, but can't even show me how Camm knew Bonet. To many holes for me.
As far as the blood evidence......dueling experts man, dueling experts. It's wether or not you choose to believe the prosecutions paid talking heads or the defense paid talking heads. We saw what the blood experts had to say about OJ simpson, and I don't think there is a person in the world who believes him innocent.

nanandjim
12-20-2006, 02:36 PM
I understand that you need to have the prosecution lay out exactly what happened and have the evidence to back it up. I don't need all that. I don't believe that this was a random act of violence. I think that this was a well-planned crime by David Camm. Who knows--maybe his conviction will be overturned again.

Gozgals
12-20-2006, 07:58 PM
If he checked his son (which he could very well have), I believe it was to ensure that the boy was dead.

The blood on his shirt was not smeared as it would have been if Cam brushed his daughter's hair, it was microscopic blood drops from blow back caused by a gunshot. Even his own defense expert could have explain why it wasn't smeared.

Eyewitness accounts are the most unreliable testimony above all else. Plus, not ALL could be sure that Camm was there. Camm was clever to play the first game, sit out the second game and then play the last game. This would give the impression that he was there the entire time. The players were focusing on the game, not Camm.

Camm could have committed this crime in 15 minutes or less. He lived very close to the location where they were playing basketball. I believe that he slipped out during the second set. I also believe that Camm played often with this group of guys and had never left the game before. This would also be set in the guys' subconscious minds. Oh, yes, I give Camm a B+ for his cleverness.

Camm was not the breadwinner in this family. He did however enjoy the comforts of being married and running around on his wife. That was coming to a screeching halt.

Also, please explain the life insurance policy on Kim, which was written by Camm's brother who lives in Florida. This brother submitted illegal documents stating that Kim was a resident of Florida (a requirement for him to be able to write the policy).

There are just so many little things that I think that both juries heard that convinced them that Camm was guilty. Who knows--he may get his shot at a third trial.

I also do not believe that Jill severely injured her private area on a bicycle in the hours before her death. How coincidental. Since I don't believe in coincidences, I don't believe in this remote possibility.

Another thing that I found odd was Camm did not tear up when discussing his daughter's death. However, he did tear up over the discussion concerning his son. I know that I am really speculating as to the reason for this. I believe that he did abuse his daughter and she may have told her mother. If so, Camm could blame the daughter for Kim leaving him and the subsequent actions that followed.

I also believe that Bradley was not killed instantly as Kim and Jill were and that he said something to his father to indicate that he knew that he was the killer. I don't think Camm would have had the same reaction had Bradley died instantly without knowing who killed him.
Nanandjim, I have followed the Camm case closely and I could not put these points together as well as you have. You did an excellent job of stating all. Thanks.

What blows me away is the bull Camm expressed about leaning over to check his son and how the blood was transferred from his daughter's hair. I heard this repeated on the 48Hrs. Special too. As you expressed so wonderfully too, Camm would only check his son to make sure he was dead.

Camm showed no reaction to his daughter being molested. This, of course, is a telltale sign to me (at least) that he is the culprit. I feel he is where he belongs and hope he does not win any appeals. As to him and his relationship to Bonet, he probably knew him from the streets, not by the reason Bonet gave on 48Hrs.

Camm just wanted a family and to continue to have affairs. This is not any great news when studying many of the murderers as most have the same patterns as we have witnessed. He is just another loser who has been caught and is trying to weasel his way out.

Thanks again nan for the great assessment of this case.

Happy Holidays
Gozgals

nanandjim
12-20-2006, 08:15 PM
...Thanks again nan for the great assessment of this case.

Happy Holidays
Gozgals
Happy Holidays to you, too. :) I also think that Camm is right where he belongs. The people who defend him say that the prosecution didn't present a "perfect" case of how the crime all fit together. Only the criminals know the exact way that it went down. I am convinced that Camm did the crime and tried to frame Bonet, a felon.

I kind of believe Bonet's story about meeting him playing basketball. Supposedly, Bonet went to high school with Camm's younger? brother. At least, that's what I thought I read a while back. Camm may have recognized Bonet and casually asked him if he could get a clean gun. I can see it happening.

I just don't know why Bonet had to be there unless Camm invited him as part of the setup. I wish that Bonet would come clean and tell the true story as I don't believe that Camm ever will.

ETA: I'm not convinced that it was the family life that Camm wanted. I believe that it was the paycheck and the creature comforts provided in the marriage. To me, he easily murdered his entire family when he suspected that Kim was about to divorce him. If he really loved his children, he would have arranged to have her have an "accident" and left the kids unharmed. Instead, he chose to ambush them and kill them all.

To me, he had to kill Jill because she would have told others about the molestation, and he couldn't take the chance. He had to kill Bradley, only because he was a witness to it all. I believe that he probably wished that he could have spared Bradley.

kcksum
12-20-2006, 09:23 PM
I understand that you need to have the prosecution lay out exactly what happened and have the evidence to back it up. I don't need all that. I don't believe that this was a random act of violence. I think that this was a well-planned crime by David Camm. Who knows--maybe his conviction will be overturned again.
well, in a court of law in the united states of america you're supposed to have the evidence to support a crime so that a jury has the correct information to honestly convict someone. They didn't have it in this case, so they got him convicted on theories of molestation and by parading his affairs in front of the jury.I am sorry that you "don't need all that" in order to believe a man brutally shot and killed his family, even though we do have evidence layed out that another man was there. I just can't sleep so well knowing people in this country can be put away for life based on past sins. He's pretty much assumed by many (you included) to have raped and molested his dead daughter on absolutely NO evidence what so ever. I think that's very scary!!!!I hope no one ever wrongly accuses me of something, or I'm never in the wrong place at the wrong time, because if I'm afforded the same kind of shotty trial Camm was, I could find myself wrongly convicted of a crime I did not committ. It happens more than one would think. :sick:

nanandjim
12-21-2006, 12:04 PM
...I could find myself wrongly convicted of a crime I did not committ. It happens more than one would think. :sick:
No, it happens less than you think. I believe that the statistics are .01 percent. I know that our justice system isn't perfect but it is the best in the world. Very few people are wrongly convicted or framed. The ones that are make the news because it is such a rarity. I just don't think that Camm was railroaded. My goodness, he is a former "cop." If anything, I would think that the police wanted him to be innocent, but there was too much evidence indicating that he wasn't.

Garnan
12-21-2006, 12:18 PM
didn't know that about the manson murders, I used a bad example. My point was that criminals sometimes pick random homes and victims to harm regardless of its location or who lived there. I think it highly probable that a known sexual deviant would follow a woman home especially since he had a past record of stalking women on campus who were wearing shoes he admired.Bonet was a sick individual and my point was that it just isn't true that the only way he would have been at the Camm house would be if David had hired and directed him there.
I was the victim of a home invasion at 145 am by two young assailants. We did not know them from Adam and no one else had sent them there. It was completely random and had they killed us all, I would have hated for someone I know to have been charged and convicted because no one believed these guys could have just picked our house randomly. Random crimes do occure.
Maybe it was just a bad example, but you proved my point without me even saying it. Random crime is an absolute rarity. I am sorry what happened to you, but you are definately the exception. Random murders, involving children, when no other crime is committed in conjunction with the murders, it isn't random. It just doesn't happen.

Gozgals
12-21-2006, 02:58 PM
Maybe it was just a bad example, but you proved my point without me even saying it. Random crime is an absolute rarity. I am sorry what happened to you, but you are definately the exception. Random murders, involving children, when no other crime is committed in conjunction with the murders, it isn't random. It just doesn't happen.
Your right on target Garnan. When a woman is the victim of a crime, she is usually raped or robbed. A child is molested, or raped, and unfortunately killed afterwards. Random killings are very rare. Even in a case where drugs are involved, one will find the victim is related in some way to the killer.

Bonet may have had some relation, (if not through Camm's brother) by criminal activities to Camm during his employment as a ST. Camm may have very well have known he could have purchased the clean gun from him, which has been stated, in order to frame him for the homicides committed. It is hard to believe anything that Bonet states as he is a known deviant himself and tends to lie about everything.

Happy Holidays
Gozgals

Boyz_Mum
12-22-2006, 09:54 AM
Your right on target Garnan. When a woman is the victim of a crime, she is usually raped or robbed. A child is molested, or raped, and unfortunately killed afterwards. Random killings are very rare. Even in a case where drugs are involved, one will find the victim is related in some way to the killer.

Bonet may have had some relation, (if not through Camm's brother) by criminal activities to Camm during his employment as a ST. Camm may have very well have known he could have purchased the clean gun from him, which has been stated, in order to frame him for the homicides committed. It is hard to believe anything that Bonet states as he is a known deviant himself and tends to lie about everything.

Happy Holidays
Gozgals
I totally agree with your second paragraph, I am inclined to believe that Camm had previous contact with Boney long before this crime and am inclined to believe that it was through Camm's employment as a S.T. You note that Boney is a known deviant, and I agree with that, and wonder too if anyone thinks that Camm is also "deviant"? As his extramarital affairs suggest that, in my opinion. (I realize that in today's society, extramarital affairs are almost considered as "the norm", I just don't believe that it should be construed as normal behavior, I hope no one takes offense to that?)

kcksum
12-22-2006, 01:07 PM
I totally agree with your second paragraph, I am inclined to believe that Camm had previous contact with Boney long before this crime and am inclined to believe that it was through Camm's employment as a S.T. You note that Boney is a known deviant, and I agree with that, and wonder too if anyone thinks that Camm is also "deviant"? As his extramarital affairs suggest that, in my opinion. (I realize that in today's society, extramarital affairs are almost considered as "the norm", I just don't believe that it should be construed as normal behavior, I hope no one takes offense to that?)
I would just like to see that connection proven. Without the state being able to even level a conspiracy charge against Camm, we have no proof evidenciary wise to connect him to Bonet. I felt like that should have had to been proven in order for a conviction to come about. Maybe I just want to much proof, I guess I will never be considered for a jury lol.

kcksum
12-22-2006, 01:10 PM
Maybe it was just a bad example, but you proved my point without me even saying it. Random crime is an absolute rarity. I am sorry what happened to you, but you are definately the exception. Random murders, involving children, when no other crime is committed in conjunction with the murders, it isn't random. It just doesn't happen.
then why are there so many cold cases, and so many missing children where there is no connection to the family and it appears to be just an example of a random abduction. I think of so many cases where things are random and the person just picks his or her victims because they just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I understand that random crimes are less previlant than non random crimes, but to say they are "rare" is an understatement in my opinion.

Boyz_Mum
12-22-2006, 03:37 PM
I would just like to see that connection proven. Without the state being able to even level a conspiracy charge against Camm, we have no proof evidenciary wise to connect him to Bonet. I felt like that should have had to been proven in order for a conviction to come about. Maybe I just want to much proof, I guess I will never be considered for a jury lol.
You are not alone in wanting a proven connection, and I think that might make you a better juror than I would ever be! LOL! In my gut, I think there is a connection with Camm and I also believe that Camm "used" Boney because he knew Boney would have zero credibility if "they" got caught. Aside from the story of them meeting at some sort of basketball game (I think they said that in the 48hours story) I almost believe that Camm had far more "goods" on Boney and it would be more likely that they met in Camm's role as a trooper. It's all theory on my part, and only my opinion. I really should buy the book mentioned earlier in the thread. I often walk away from some of these shows thinking everyone is guilty- not very open minded! LOL!

kcksum
12-22-2006, 11:34 PM
You are not alone in wanting a proven connection, and I think that might make you a better juror than I would ever be! LOL! In my gut, I think there is a connection with Camm and I also believe that Camm "used" Boney because he knew Boney would have zero credibility if "they" got caught. Aside from the story of them meeting at some sort of basketball game (I think they said that in the 48hours story) I almost believe that Camm had far more "goods" on Boney and it would be more likely that they met in Camm's role as a trooper. It's all theory on my part, and only my opinion. I really should buy the book mentioned earlier in the thread. I often walk away from some of these shows thinking everyone is guilty- not very open minded! LOL!
don't get me wrong. I certaintly see where many people may perceive him as guilty. i was puzzled by his lack of tears for his wife and daughter as well, and I do see it possible......however, I do not think the state proved its case, and I do believe that he will win on appeal. MAINLY because the court of appeals strongly warned the prosecuters not to bring up the bogus molestation theory of they re tried him, and they ignored that admonishment and did it anyway. They might as well have asked for his guilty verdict to be overturned.

Boyz_Mum
12-23-2006, 07:47 AM
don't get me wrong. I certaintly see where many people may perceive him as guilty. i was puzzled by his lack of tears for his wife and daughter as well, and I do see it possible......however, I do not think the state proved its case, and I do believe that he will win on appeal. MAINLY because the court of appeals strongly warned the prosecuters not to bring up the bogus molestation theory of they re tried him, and they ignored that admonishment and did it anyway. They might as well have asked for his guilty verdict to be overturned.
During the 48hours show, I immediately thought he was guilty (just my opinion) but I didn't think the molestation evidence was what I considered as strong evidence against him. Sometimes little girls have accidents while riding bikes and such and can injure their private area, and I didn't feel that they were able to explain it or make it consistent with molestation- so I didn't understand how they could or would use that in the trial. (I guess without it being "proven", I was left to wonder why it was used as part of his motive?)

As far as his seemingly not crying until he spoke of his son, I personally felt it was because he had a hand in his death (and perhaps it haunts him?). I can't say how I feel the crime actually happened, but I do believe that Camm was present. (Again, this is only my opinion.) I believe that Camm belongs in jail, I feel that he is guilty of more than conspiracy to commit the murders, but my beliefs are not those that guide our penal system. I don't think all the dots have been connected as far as Boney and Camm's relationship. I really hope that LE can find what they need to either prove Camm's guilt or even his innocence- for all the victims involved.

nanandjim
12-24-2006, 04:19 PM
...I really hope that LE can find what they need to either prove Camm's guilt or even his innocence- for all the victims involved.
Two juries have found Camm guilty. I think that LE has already proven his guilt.

Also, I could be wrong, but I don't think that they presented evidence of molestation during the second trial. I think that it was only mentioned during closing arguments that it was found to be a possibility that Jill was molested.

kcksum
12-25-2006, 01:38 AM
Two juries have found Camm guilty. I think that LE has already proven his guilt.

Also, I could be wrong, but I don't think that they presented evidence of molestation during the second trial. I think that it was only mentioned during closing arguments that it was found to be a possibility that Jill was molested.
two juries found david dowallaby guilty as well, and he was innocent.

nanandjim
12-25-2006, 03:29 PM
two juries found david dowallaby guilty as well, and he was innocent.
I'd list all those found guilty by a jury who are guilty, but I don't think this website has enough server space to handle the list. :rolleyes:

Gozgals
12-25-2006, 05:10 PM
I'd list all those found guilty by a jury who are guilty, but I don't think this website has enough server space to handle the list. :rolleyes:
:clap: :clap: You got that right Nanandjim.

Merry Christmas to you, and all.
Let us pray Camm stays where he belongs, safely tucked away in prison. :boohoo:

Boyz_Mum
12-26-2006, 07:38 AM
Two juries have found Camm guilty. I think that LE has already proven his guilt.

Also, I could be wrong, but I don't think that they presented evidence of molestation during the second trial. I think that it was only mentioned during closing arguments that it was found to be a possibility that Jill was molested.
I personally do believe that Camm is guilty- I only wish the dots between him and Boney could have been connected more thoroughly. (That's just the part of my curiousity that wasn't satisfied as far as "answers".) I don't remember for sure about the second trial, I only remember that the prosecution was reminded they couldn't use the molestation during the second trial. The molestation wasn't the part of the case that was what made me feel that Camm was guilty.

kcksum, I remember the Dowollaby (spelling?) case and it did turn out that he was innocent. I have enjoyed your viewpoints and opinions.

Happy New Year to all!

kcksum
12-26-2006, 09:50 PM
I personally do believe that Camm is guilty- I only wish the dots between him and Boney could have been connected more thoroughly. (That's just the part of my curiousity that wasn't satisfied as far as "answers".) I don't remember for sure about the second trial, I only remember that the prosecution was reminded they couldn't use the molestation during the second trial. The molestation wasn't the part of the case that was what made me feel that Camm was guilty.

kcksum, I remember the Dowollaby (spelling?) case and it did turn out that he was innocent. I have enjoyed your viewpoints and opinions.

Happy New Year to all!
thank you,
I realize my opinion might not be the popular one, but I stand by it. I of course understand we have a great justice system in this country, that's why I love this site. I do however believe it has been more than proven that people who are innocent are found guilty in this country from time to time. I know the jury gets it right most of the time. I don't think that's a good enough reason to blindly turn an eye when someone who might be innocent gets a crappy trial.That list of many people who were actually guilty and then are found guilty would mean a hill of beans to a man wrongly convicted of slaughtering his family. I believe we may never know, there is just something about this case that left too much unanswered for a conviction to have been handed down. That's just my humble opinion though, and one I can live with and sleep well with.