P McG inscribed on her ring NYC compare these girls

[ihadcabinfever]

http://www.nymissing.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=27

Estimated Age : 15 - 21 yrs.
Race: Caucasian
Estimated Height: 4'10" - 5'4"
Estimated Weight: Petite
Hair Color: unknown
Eye Color: unknown
Date of Death: sometime after 1979
Cause of Death: Homicide
Fingerprints: unknown
DNA: unknown

Dentals: She had expensive dental work at one point in her life, but her teeth also had severe decay.

Clothing Description: gold-colored ring inscribed with the initials P McG; brassiere,size 32 A; remains of pantyhose; standard 1966 Bulova watch




http://www.colliersheriff.org/news/missing/detail.asp?key=40
Missing Person - Patricia McGill (Missing Adult)
Missing Since: 5/15/1983 Case # 83-22126
Last Seen: Naples, Florida ( Collier County)
Race: W Sex: F Age at disappearance: 42
Hair: Red/Brown Eyes: Hazel HGT: 506 WGT: 150
Last Address: 11th Street SW
Scars, Marks & Tattoos: Silver ring with an emerald
Occupation: Secretary
Details:

Patricia was last seen on 05/15/1983(age 42) at a Site gas station in the northern part of Collier County on US 41. Her car was located in Golden Gate City where she had rented a room with all of her personal belonging's left behind. No one has seen or heard from her since that time.

Anyone with information on the whereabouts' of Patricia is ask to contact the Collier County Sheriff's Office.

[SewingDeb]

There is some resemblance but there is a huge age and size discrepancy.

[2sisters]

I think they are similar but I watched a TV show about the PMcg girl and they said without a doubt her murder tool place between 1967? and 1970 something b/c of a rat ploison found around her body, i am sketchy on it.ETA- this talks about the time period.
"The victim's skeletal remains were found inside a cement coffin, hidden behind a boiler in the basement of a rundown building on West 46th Street in Hell's Kitchen. Construction workers using a sledgehammer in the building's basement discovered the remains February 10, 2003. A 1968 coin was found near her body, but detectives believe she was not killed before 1979 because traces of a rat poison not manufactured before that year also were found at the scene.
Her dental health suggests she may have been from a family of means but may have fallen on hard times, perhaps getting hooked on drugs, living on the streets or working as a prostitute. "

[Beyond Belief]

None of the possessions sound right for a girl that age. I am wondering if those things belonged to maybe her mother. Its strange to hold on to a watch and ring if your in need. i would think they would have been pawned. I am just thinking maybe they belonged to her mother, who may have passed away leaving her homeless.

[Richard]

Here is a recent Doenetwork Case File and Link:

--------------------------------
Unidentified White Female

The victim was discovered on February 10, 2003 in Manhattan, New York City, New York
She was a victim of homicide by strangulation
Skeletal Remains
The time of death occured sometime after 1988

Vital Statistics

Estimated age: 15 - 21 years old. Several of her teeth and bones had not reached full maturity, suggesting she was between 17 and 19 years old.
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'2"
Distinguishing Characteristics: Light-colored hair, possibly red or reddish. Petite build. She wore a size 32 A bra.
Dentals: Available. She had expensive dental work at one point in her life, but her teeth also had severe decay, suggesting she may have been from a family of means but may have fallen on hard times, perhaps getting hooked on drugs, living on the streets or working as a prostitute.
Clothing/Jewelry: She was wearing a gold-colored signet ring inscribed with the initials P McG. Other clues include a brassiere and remains of pantyhose and a standard 1966 Bulova watch.
Other: Possibly of Irish descent. The victim may also have abused drugs, and been a prostitute - scraps of glittery clothing were also recovered at the scene.

See link for photo of Signet Ring, Tag in Clothing, and Composite sketch of victim.

Case History
The victim's skeletal remains had been wrapped in a rug and concealed under a layer of relatively fresh concrete, which itself was hidden behind an old coal-burning furnace in the basement of a rundown, mostly abandoned apartment building on West 46th Street in Hell's Kitchen on Manhattan's West Side.

Construction workers using a sledgehammer in the building's basement discovered the remains February 10, 2003.

Police say the building was used by prostitutes and that the basement could be reached from several points inside, as well as through a steel trap door in an adjacent parking lot.

The killer had bound her hands and feet with an extension cord and circled it around her neck, then wrapped her body in a patch of rust-colored carpet.

A 1968 coin was found near her body. An International Ladies Garment Workers tag of a type sewn into clothing in 1988 was recovered with the victim and a plastic toy soldier that could not be exactly dated.

Investigators
If you have any information about this case please contact:
New York City Police
Midtown North Detective Squad
Detective James Gardner
212-473-2042

You may remain anonymous when submitting information.

Agency Case Number: 389
NCIC Number: U-900004399
Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

Source Information:
Newsday
New York Post
America's Most Wanted
The Doe Network: Case File 337UFNY


LINK:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/337ufny.html

[Richard]

Here is the Doenetwork file on Patricia. Note that she was reported to be wearing a Silver Ring with an emerald when she disappeared. It is more likely that she was murdered somewhere in Florida, than in New York. Is it possible, however, that she might have had a signet ring that was given at some point to the Hell's Kitchen Jane Doe?

Investigators believe that the Jane Doe was killed some time after 1988 - 5 years after Patricia's disappearance. Patricia would have been over 47 years old at the time of the Jane Doe's death.
-----------------------------------
Patricia McGill
Missing since May 15, 1983 from Naples, Collier County, Florida
Classification: Missing

Vital Statistics
Date Of Birth: June 6, 1941
Age at Time of Disappearance: 42 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'6"; 150 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Red/brown hair; hazel eyes.
Jewelry: Silver ring with an emerald

Circumstances of Disappearance
Patricia was last seen on May 15, 1983 at a Site gas station in the northern part of Collier County on US 41. Her car was located in Golden Gate City where she had rented a room with all of her personal belonging's left behind. No one has seen or heard from her since that time.

Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Collier County Sheriff's Office 941-793-9300

Agency Case Number: 83-22126

Source Information:
Collier County Sheriff's Office
The Doe Network: Case File 1752DFFL


LINK:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1752dffl.html

[outofthedark]

Why would Nymissing.com report Jane Doe as having died after 1979, when found evidence clearly states after 1988 because of a piece of product packaging dated 1988+ being found with her remains

[ihadcabinfever]

Here is the Doenetwork file on Patricia. Note that she was reported to be wearing a Silver Ring with an emerald when she disappeared. It is more likely that she was murdered somewhere in Florida, than in New York. Is it possible, however, that she might have had a signet ring that was given at some point to the Hell's Kitchen Jane Doe?

Investigators believe that the Jane Doe was killed some time after 1988 - 5 years after Patricia's disappearance. Patricia would have been over 47 years old at the time of the Jane Doe's death.
-----------------------------------
Patricia McGill
Missing since May 15, 1983 from Naples, Collier County, Florida
Classification: Missing

Vital Statistics
Date Of Birth: June 6, 1941
Age at Time of Disappearance: 42 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'6"; 150 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Red/brown hair; hazel eyes.
Jewelry: Silver ring with an emerald

Circumstances of Disappearance
Patricia was last seen on May 15, 1983 at a Site gas station in the northern part of Collier County on US 41. Her car was located in Golden Gate City where she had rented a room with all of her personal belonging's left behind. No one has seen or heard from her since that time.

Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Collier County Sheriff's Office 941-793-9300

Agency Case Number: 83-22126

Source Information:
Collier County Sheriff's Office
The Doe Network: Case File 1752DFFL


LINK:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1752dffl.html

Note that she was reported to be wearing a Silver Ring with an emerald.
This was probably the most expensive piece of jewelry. I wonder if it was her at all at the motel.

I wonder who reported her missing? Weird, last seen at the gas station ? then her car is found where she was staying with all her belongings left behind.
A secretary staying at a motel? hmmm.... Also says her birthday is June an Emarald is May's birthstone.Just thought I'd throw that in there.



Patricia was last seen on 05/15/1983(age 42) at a Site gas station in the northern part of Collier County on US 41. Her car was located in Golden Gate City where she had rented a room with all of her personal belonging's left behind. No one has seen or heard from her since that time

[ihadcabinfever]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_by_name:_Mcg-Mcz

some more names

McGafney - Co. Cavan
McGargan - Co. Cavan
McGarrahan - Co. Fermanagh
McGarry - Co. Mayo
McGauran - Co. Cavan
McGavan - Cos. Longford & Mayo
McGeoghegan - Co. Westmeath
McGeraghty - Cos. Mayo & Sligo
McGettigan - Co. Donegal
McGibbon - Co. Mayo
McGilbride - Co. Donegal
McGilduff - Co. Galway
McGilduist - Co. Longford
McGilfoye - Co. Tipperary
McGillicuddy - Co. Kerry
McGilligan - Cos. Derry & Longford
McGillikelly - Co. Galway
McGilmartin - Co. Leitrim
McGilmichael - Co. Monaghan
McGilmore - Co. Down
McGilpatrick - Co. Laois
McGilroy - Co. Monaghan
McGinnis - Co. Down
McGinty - Co. Donegal
McGloin - Co. Leitrim
McGolrick - Co. Tyrone
McGonigal - Co. Donegal
McGourty - Co. Leitrim
McGowan - Cos. Donegal, Down & Leitrim
McGrane - Co. Meath
McGreal - Co. Mayo
McGreevy - Co. Antrim
McGuire - Co. Fermanagh

[kylie]

Both Patricia and the Jane Doe were killed by the same person...first Patricia was killed and her things taken then somehow the killer befriended the Jane Doe and gave her the ring before killing her........what do you think? A serial killer.............

[ihadcabinfever]

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:CR0k3js7xyUJ:www.amw.com/features/feature_story_detail.cfm%3Fid%3D145+initials+PMcG&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3

The Gold Ring

Police found a gold-plated signet ring on the victim's ring pinky. It had the letters PMCG written on the face. Were those the victim's initials? Detective Gardiner of the NYPD spent weeks on the phone with police agencies across the U.S.

He determined there were over 500 missing persons that fit the victim's description with a first name beginning with "P" and a last name beginning with "McG." Det. Gardiner had no luck identifying the victim but he hadn't hit a dead-end yet.

Jewelry experts police talked to said the initials could also be read this way: a first name beginning with "P," a middle initial of "G" and a last name beginning with "Mc". That gave Det. Gardiner a whole new set of names.

The Toy Soldier

A small plastic toy soldier was found with the victim. What kind of personal significance did it hold for the victim

My mother had ordered sweaters for Christmas with monogramed initials on them , She had the last name inital in the middle. I still wouldnt wear it for obviuos reasons. :laugh: (FGA) my friend wore it lolol

[ihadcabinfever]

or the initial could be P first name Mc middle name G last name.

Something like Patricia Mcwhatever

Thats definatley a puzzle.

[Beyond Belief]

Do they make school rings like that? Could that initial ring be a sorority or club ring of some kind?

[kylie]

The soldier could have been placed there by the killer....it may have significance for the killer, not the victim

[HollywoodBound]

It's interesting the unidentified victim has a '66 watch and a '68 coin near her body. There is a bra listed and the remains of pantyhose, and then a tag recovered with the body, it doesn't say what the tag was on, and no other clothing is listed. I find it odd the girl would have such an old watch, and then just happen to have a coin from around the same time. A possibilty is the body has been somewhere near the area it was found in since around '68 and then maybe moved to a different area and concrete poured over. At that time a bra was near the remains, and a toy soldier which also is not something that would appear to belong to this victim. Perhaps these items were present for other reasons when the concrete is poured. All of this would be virtually impossible if the extension cord can be dated to the 80's. Also, I wonder if they can get an approximate date on the toy soldier. I wonder if it's from the 60's?

[ihadcabinfever]

http://missing-and-unidentified.org/midtown_jane_doe.htm

Much has been discussed and concluded from the victims teeth and those conclusions are very important:
At one point in her life, she had expensive dental work done. A lot of money was spent on her teeth and yet her teeth also had severe decay by the time of her death. It suggests that she was from a middle to upperclass family that had hit on hard times, perhaps she herself fell into some sort of trouble. Because of the change in her teeth, the possibility that she was a runaway who came to New York most certainly cannot be discounted.
The possibility that she was adopted and did not like where she was living cannot be ruled out.

Age is off but pregnancy can weaken teeth

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1177dfbel.html

[Beyond Belief]

Children raised on welfare always had wonderful dental care because it was free. I don't think you can place her economic class by the dental care unless of course she had braces. I don't think that was covered.

[ihadcabinfever]

The possibility that she was adopted and did not like where she was living cannot be ruled out.


Huh. I just remembered something. I grew up on the NJ side of Greenwood
Lake . I know the NY side in the town of Greenwood Lake had all those kids come over from Ireland in the summer. Heres the link.
http://www.projectchildrenni.com/welcome_to_america.htm

Maybe the girl stayed here in the U.S. I know alot of those teenagers ended up staying one they got here. My sister even dated one .So did my neighbor.
This was 83' 84ish.

http://www.projectchildrenni.com/welcome.htm

Project Children is an American-Northern Ireland partnership dedicated to showing Protestant and Catholic kids that they have nothing to fear from each other and much to gain. The programme started in 1975 with six children from Belfast, three from one community and three from the other. The kids spent that summer in America, getting to know each other in a small New York town. Now Project Children places more than 600 children from Northern Ireland with host families across America each summer. And several years ago we expanded to include university students by offering summer internships on Capitol Hill. A few months later, a new venture with Habitat for Humanity and local trade unions pulled in vocational students and gave them on-the-job experience building homes in America. Project Children also sponsors programmes in Northern Ireland that bring together Protestant and Catholic children and their families. Although we have expanded, our vision remains the same: to help build peace in Northern Ireland through its children and young people.

PROJECT CHILDREN'S FIRST VOLUNTEER
Denis Mulcahy, the founder of Project Children, doesn't use the power of personality or the force of rhetoric to inspire others to join his cause. Denis Mulcahy leads by example. He takes no salary from Project Children and works long hours tending to the big plans and small details of running the organisation. Over the past twenty-five years he has quietly masterminded summer vacations in America for more than 14,000 children in Northern Ireland.
He has given those children-Protestants and Catholics-a much-needed break from the grim politics of their own country and an extraordinary chance to play together. He hasn't done it alone, and he will be the first to tell you. In fact, if you try to praise Denis, he will quickly start praising Project Children host families, area co-ordinators, fund-raising volunteers, and benefactors. Denis considers himself simply one of the many. But Denis is truly the heart and soul of Project Children. He started it in 1975, along with his brother Pat. They both had grown up in County Cork, Ireland, and emigrated to New York, where they joined the New York Police Department. Denis is still with the force; he's a bomb squad detective. Pat retired early because of injury and returned to County Cork.

In 1975, Northern Ireland was a boiling pot of political violence. Armed soldiers, rolling tanks, and surveillance cameras were everywhere, trying to keep the lid on. People were dying and children were growing up scared. Protestant and Catholic families were insulating themselves against each other-fleeing integrated neighbourhoods in search of segregated enclaves. Denis and Pat were heartsick. They decided to do something to help the children. That summer they brought six kids from Northern Ireland-three Protestants and three Catholics-to Greenwood Lake, New York, where they lived. The idea was twofold. Most importantly they wanted to get the kids away from the violence and the paramilitaries who work double time recruiting kids during school breaks. Denis and Pat also wanted to show the Protestant and Catholic kids that they could live together and actually like each other.

Denis Mulcahy with James Ruoff, U.S. Customs, welcoming the children of Northern Ireland at J.F.K. Airport in New York.

Each summer two Aer Lingus jets touch down in the United States packed with over 600 excited kids ready for six weeks of fun in the sun. Six weeks away from the "Troubles" back home.

All these kids that came over through the years loved it here. They had a great time and it is really a great program. Alot of the older kids said it was like heaven. Swimming ,fishing, boating. Such a different world than what they were used to.
Maybe the girl was here and decieded to find her way back to US?
Never found her way out of NYC?

[HollywoodBound]

http://missing-and-unidentified.org/midtown_jane_doe.htm
The web site linked above makes it seem clear she went missing sometime in the 80's not late 60's to 70's. Wonder if the serial # on the watch could be of any help?
That ring could very likely be a boyfriend's ring she wore.

[outofthedark]

This web site makes it seem more likely she went missing sometime in the 80's.
That ring could very likely be a boyfriend's ring she wore.
Could be a high school ring too that could have belonged to a family member. Maybe a family member killed her, threw in the items and rolled her up in the carpet. I mostly think an enraged boyfriend, pimp or someone killed her though.

[docwho3]

I am fairly sure that this case is also on another thread here at websleuths somewhere. I remember doing some research on it. My notes are all on a different computer hard drive but soon as I get that one back up and running I will look at my notes. I only mention it because it might be worth doing some reading in that thread to see what others may have turned up.

Edited to add:

Here is the oldest (I think)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35644&highlight=McG

And this one also was begun later.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41636&highlight=McG

[ihadcabinfever]

Why would Nymissing.com report Jane Doe as having died after 1979, when found evidence clearly states after 1988 because of a piece of product packaging dated 1988+ being found with her remains


I think that was after the tag found on the clothing was researched and found to be made after 1979. They found a garment number and the item was made later. Is this the same as an inspector code?

[outofthedark]

I think that was after the tag found on the clothing was researched and found to be made after 1979. They found a garment number and the item was made later. Is this the same as an inspector code?
Now I know a little more about the after 1979 info, I'm not sure about the inspector code though

[ihadcabinfever]

hidden behind an old coal-burning furnace in the basement of a rundown, mostly abandoned apartment building on West 46th Street in Hell's Kitchen on Manhattan's West Side.

So who mantained the furnace during this time? Who was the building superintendant at the time? Having different entry ways could mean anyone had acess but only the person that was fimiliar with the place would know when they could mix concrete and hide a body without being seen. It's not like that basement was Grand central. Someone needed privacy.

[ihadcabinfever]

P Mc G
*

Okay. This has been driving me crazy the Mc
*
That puncuation mark under the c , I don't think the possibility that it is her

confirmation name. I have seen alot of Initial rings but I have never seen the dot mark. It's not common. So maybe P first name M middle name c confirmation name and G last name?
I have looked up celtic grammar until my eyes are blurred. If you look at it ,it usually is shown on top of the
*
Mc

like that , not on the bottom. What about that now? :banghead:

[ihadcabinfever]

http://www.eiic.org/history.htm

In the middle of the 1980's there was a large number of undocumented Irish living in the United States. At that time Irish immigrants were a group that had fallen between the immigration 'cracks', having missed out on the amnesty program of 1986. Because of the Irish immigrants' long history of contributing to their adopted country it was no surprise that by 1987 the Irish community had begun to agitate for changes in immigration law. The fruits of their labor are most visible in the Morrison and Schumer Visa programs, written into the U.S. Immigration Act of 1990, which give balance and diversity to U.S. immigration policy.

One group that was very instrumental in these positive changes was the Irish Immigration Reform Movement (IIRM). The IIRM also recognized the need for a center which could provide day-to-day assistance to recent Irish immigrants, especially since many were undocumented, and in 1988 Emerald Isle Immigration Center (EIIC) was born. In those early days a small hard-working staff and dedicated board and volunteers spent long hours helping people with important matters; bank accounts, driver's licenses, housing, medical insurance, education and protection under the law. The Center helped thousands to apply for visas after 1990 and has since assisted many more thousands to follow through and get green cards.
Since 1990 the Center has broadened the scope of its services to include job-training and placement services. The Center has also recently placed much emphasis on Citizenship and Voter Registration among Irish immigrants. The Center sees empowerment and participation as a vital factor in the well-being of the community it serves. In many ways, helping those who were once 'illegal aliens' to become U.S. citizens is enough reward for building the Center to its current position of leadership in New York's Irish immigrant community.

Today, however, we are seeing some setbacks for the overall well-being of the Irish immigrant community. It is becoming harder and harder to secure green cards. The Diversity Program offers one of the few hopes but the new immigration law passed by Congress last year even removes that chance for many. In the year ahead EIIC will strive to bring the attention of legislators to the plight befalling many immigrants from Ireland.

EIIC has had many highlights over the years. These highlights include the presentation of the Paul O'Dwyer Peace and Justice Award to President Bill Clinton in September 1998, and the memorable visits of Mary McAleese, President of Ireland, to the Woodside facility in June 1998, and President Mary Robinson's visit in May 1995.

In November of 1995 Brian O'Dwyer, as Chair of EIIC's Board of Directors, accompanied President Clinton on his historic trip to Ireland.

Among EIIC's funding sources are the Irish Government, the New York City Department for the Aging, the New York City Council, the New York State Assembly, Queens and Bronx delegations, and the Queens, Bronx, and Brooklyn Borough Presidents. Recently EIIC has secured a large grant from the State of New York to provide comprehensive citizenship services to New York's immigrant population.

Well now this is a large number of people to consider. How do they figure out where to start?

[annemc2]

Interesting about the Irish connection!

I was curious about the monogramming, too, and tried to look up the Mc asterisk thing. I grew up with a Mc surname and occasionally saw the "c" underlined but never with a little star underneath. I checked out some websites to see examples of monogrammed signet rings but couldn't find any ready examples with Mc.

I did read that "traditionally, the last name initial is the middle letter of the monogram."

[N8tiveNYR]

hidden behind an old coal-burning furnace in the basement of a rundown, mostly abandoned apartment building on West 46th Street in Hell's Kitchen on Manhattan's West Side.

So who mantained the furnace during this time? Who was the building superintendant at the time? Having different entry ways could mean anyone had acess but only the person that was fimiliar with the place would know when they could mix concrete and hide a body without being seen. It's not like that basement was Grand central. Someone needed privacy.
First, I want to thank whichever mod got me on here. It's been nearly a year of getting disabled before being activated. :banghead: Hooray, I finally made it in !!!:crazy:

Now on to this: I grew up in Hell's Kitchen and this particular case always bugged me. I lived in one of those tenements for about 14 years and the basements are the last place on earth anyone would ever want to go. Still, a superintendent has to go down there for boiler/water issues. I have always wondered who owned the building and who did the maintenance.
I still live in the city albeit on the upper west side now (one express train stop away from the building) and if anyone has any suggestions, I would be more than willing to try and check out info. My husband calls me tenacious (due to my success with my family genealogy) so I think I belong right here on WS. !!!
Glad to meet you all.

[Carl]

Welcome to Websleuths!! :)

[ihadcabinfever]

First, I want to thank whichever mod got me on here. It's been nearly a year of getting disabled before being activated. :banghead: Hooray, I finally made it in !!!:crazy:

Now on to this: I grew up in Hell's Kitchen and this particular case always bugged me. I lived in one of those tenements for about 14 years and the basements are the last place on earth anyone would ever want to go. Still, a superintendent has to go down there for boiler/water issues. I have always wondered who owned the building and who did the maintenance.
I still live in the city albeit on the upper west side now (one express train stop away from the building) and if anyone has any suggestions, I would be more than willing to try and check out info. My husband calls me tenacious (due to my success with my family genealogy) so I think I belong right here on WS. !!!
Glad to meet you all.

Oh geez , now thats the last place you should go asking anything by yourself.Don't go asking the matinence man. He will be insulted.
Do you think the ring is hers ? I don't think it is. I think someone put it on her to throw anyone off that came upon her.
Otherwise why leave it? With initials? I think it was left as a message. Like the soldier. Some sort of insider message.

[N8tiveNYR]

[QUOTE=ihadcabinfever]Oh geez , now thats the last place you should go asking anything by yourself.Don't go asking the matinence man. He will be insulted.

Thanks for assuming I'm stupid and tacky. But hey, you don't know me personally. Anyway, I was thinking more along the lines of going downtown to look at property records, etc. Also, I am close enough to get a photo of the building which I am sure would satisfy a sleuther or two's curiousity. Alas, I must put this on hold for now bc my dad was just diagnosed with cancer and he's my priority.

[laini]

First, I want to thank whichever mod got me on here. It's been nearly a year of getting disabled before being activated. :banghead: Hooray, I finally made it in !!!:crazy:

Now on to this: I grew up in Hell's Kitchen and this particular case always bugged me. I lived in one of those tenements for about 14 years and the basements are the last place on earth anyone would ever want to go. Still, a superintendent has to go down there for boiler/water issues. I have always wondered who owned the building and who did the maintenance.
I still live in the city albeit on the upper west side now (one express train stop away from the building) and if anyone has any suggestions, I would be more than willing to try and check out info. My husband calls me tenacious (due to my success with my family genealogy) so I think I belong right here on WS. !!!
Glad to meet you all.

Welcome N8tiveNYR! So glad your here! Being where you are, you may be able to dig up some dirt on this case!

[laini]

Anyway, I was thinking more along the lines of going downtown to look at property records, etc. Also, I am close enough to get a photo of the building which I am sure would satisfy a sleuther or two's curiousity. Alas, I must put this on hold for now bc my dad was just diagnosed with cancer and he's my priority.
Property records/photos would be great! So sorry to hear about your dad. We will be here when you are able to return.

About the ring, my gut tells me it is a McG-Something. My maiden name is McSomething and I know I have seen something with a little line under the little c. I don't think it is anymore than First name P... Last name McG....

[ihadcabinfever]

[QUOTE=ihadcabinfever]Oh geez , now thats the last place you should go asking anything by yourself.Don't go asking the matinence man. He will be insulted.

Thanks for assuming I'm stupid and tacky. But hey, you don't know me personally. Anyway, I was thinking more along the lines of going downtown to look at property records, etc. Also, I am close enough to get a photo of the building which I am sure would satisfy a sleuther or two's curiousity. Alas, I must put this on hold for now bc my dad was just diagnosed with cancer and he's my priority.

LOL I'm sorry , I didn't mean it like that. I am sorry your Father is sick. Mine is driving me crazy. Speaking of him , I told him about this girl they found there and He barked out "NOW what do you want to go poking around there for?" LOL He worked in the City until the Trade Center was completed and left for work in Pa . There was no more construction going on after that. I don't remember the rest but it was when you had to line up for gas I think.

I know he thinks Hells Kitchen was dangerous..... you know the Business stuff and I had been thinking about some article on CTV about MID TOWN DOE , I have to go back and read again. When the Irish were running down there who was in charge at the time and left for Florida? Someone turned ,I dont know who it was. Mc Grath maybe.
I'll get the link. heres a better one.
http://www.angelfire.com/blog/organizedcrime/westies/duganhit.html
These people were lunatics. So either it could be the neice ,They dont give her name.

here it is Alberta Sachs--Coonan's niece?

[N8tiveNYR]

I know he thinks Hells Kitchen was dangerous..... you know the Business stuff and I had been thinking about some article on CTV about MID TOWN DOE , I have to go back and read again. When the Irish were running down there who was in charge at the time and left for Florida? Someone turned ,I dont know who it was. Mc Grath maybe.
I'll get the link. heres a better one.
http://www.angelfire.com/blog/organizedcrime/westies/duganhit.html
These people were lunatics. So either it could be the neice ,They dont give her name.

here it is Alberta Sachs--Coonan's niece?
I'm just jumping on real quick to follow up with the above organized crime link... BTW Mickey Featherstone was the one who turned. He is in the witness protection program now. Another little piece is that Tommy Hess was a good friend of my father. When I read the Westie's book in the early '90's and asked my Dad questions, he said, "They killed my good friend, Tommy Hess." I was stunned because I was sheltered from that as a child. And no, my Dad was not a Westie. It was the kind of neighborhood where everyone knew each other (and of each other) through either their church parish or the corner bar. I know some of these guys are still around but they don't have much power anymore. They sit in the bar denying the Westie's ever existed. I have experienced that firsthand and very recently. So, I'm going to stop there. As I said, my Dad is very ill. He needs a liver transplant and I am going to get tested to see if I fit the criteria for a living donor. :( Please keep us in your thoughts. I will be popping on and posting, but I'm not sure when I can get to photograph the building or get any property records.

[ihadcabinfever]

I'm just jumping on real quick to follow up with the above organized crime link... BTW Mickey Featherstone was the one who turned. He is in the witness protection program now. Another little piece is that Tommy Hess was a good friend of my father. When I read the Westie's book in the early '90's and asked my Dad questions, he said, "They killed my good friend, Tommy Hess." I was stunned because I was sheltered from that as a child. And no, my Dad was not a Westie. It was the kind of neighborhood where everyone knew each other (and of each other) through either their church parish or the corner bar. I know some of these guys are still around but they don't have much power anymore. They sit in the bar denying the Westie's ever existed. I have experienced that firsthand and very recently. So, I'm going to stop there. As I said, my Dad is very ill. He needs a liver transplant and I am going to get tested to see if I fit the criteria for a living donor. :( Please keep us in your thoughts. I will be popping on and posting, but I'm not sure when I can get to photograph the building or get any property records.

I recognized a few names but I am going on an 8 year olds memory. Tommy Collins sounds familiar.I never even heard Westies until I was 17 maybe and I thought they were i Chicago.
All that Irish Heritage there and nobody claims her? It makes me think huh.. its weird ? I did find a website about irish heritage and these people were letting it fly. I'll be back on later . I'll find it.
LOL and would your dad or anyones dad say they were.Thats what they were talking about. I was laughing when this kid came on aand asked if anyone knew the boxer because it might be her grandfather.
they did have good links and decent info.

[ihadcabinfever]

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/337ufny.html
Unidentified White Female


The victim was discovered on February 10, 2003 in Manhattan, New York City, New York
She was a victim of homicide by strangulation
Skeletal Remains
The time of death occured sometime after 1988


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vital Statistics


Estimated age: 15 - 21 years old. Several of her teeth and bones had not reached full maturity, suggesting she was between 17 and 19 years old.
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'2"
Distinguishing Characteristics: Light-colored hair, possibly red or reddish. Petite build. She wore a size 32 A bra.
Dentals: Available. She had expensive dental work at one point in her life, but her teeth also had severe decay, suggesting she may have been from a family of means but may have fallen on hard times, perhaps getting hooked on drugs, living on the streets or working as a prostitute.
Clothing/Jewelry: She was wearing a gold-colored ring inscribed with the initials P McG. Other clues include a brassiere and remains of pantyhose and a standard 1966 Bulova watch.
Other: Possibly of Irish descent. The victim may also have abused drugs, and been a prostitute - scraps of glittery clothing were also recovered at the scene.




http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/254ufny.html

Unidentified White Female

Skeletal remains found on May 13, 1984 at Harriman State Park, Orange County, New York, adjacent to State Route 6, South.
Cause of death is an apparent gunshot.
Estimated date of death: January 1982


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vital Statistics


Estimated age: 35 - 45 years old.
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'0"-5'4"; 100-140 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Her hair was naturally gray, but she had dyed it brown. She was of medium build.
Clothing: Gray cotton jersey shorts, aprx. 27" waist and a light-colored bra, aprx. 34" - 36". Also found was a single-pierced earring; a yellow gold necklace; a 14K yellow gold engagement ring size 6½ with European cut center diamond of 1.10 carats with 3 smaller diamonds on each side. This ring resized larger. Also found was a 3-stone 14K yellow gold mother's ring with aqua and ruby stones, and third stone missing (March & July remained). This ring marked with "14KT. P.G." ???????
Dental: Extensive, expensive fillings. Full dental and skeletal X-rays are available.

Wonder if they are related?

[laini]

I'm just jumping on real quick to follow up with the above organized crime link... BTW Mickey Featherstone was the one who turned. He is in the witness protection program now. Another little piece is that Tommy Hess was a good friend of my father. When I read the Westie's book in the early '90's and asked my Dad questions, he said, "They killed my good friend, Tommy Hess." I was stunned because I was sheltered from that as a child. And no, my Dad was not a Westie. It was the kind of neighborhood where everyone knew each other (and of each other) through either their church parish or the corner bar. I know some of these guys are still around but they don't have much power anymore. They sit in the bar denying the Westie's ever existed. I have experienced that firsthand and very recently. So, I'm going to stop there. As I said, my Dad is very ill. He needs a liver transplant and I am going to get tested to see if I fit the criteria for a living donor. :( Please keep us in your thoughts. I will be popping on and posting, but I'm not sure when I can get to photograph the building or get any property records.


Hope you and your father are doing okay.

[ihadcabinfever]

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200502922S
vs.

http://www.nymissing.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=27


age is off. profile of face is very good

[dhchick04]

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200502922S
vs.

http://www.nymissing.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=27


age is off. profile of face is very good
That is a very good face comparison.

[Masterj]

Face looks close to me. It certainly can't hurt to submit it.

You've been busy cabinfever! Great job :-)

[ihadcabinfever]

Yes I have. It's also been 5 degrees outside. :(

I don't even want to let the dogs out.

[Tom Friendly]

Both Patricia and the Jane Doe were killed by the same person...first Patricia was killed and her things taken then somehow the killer befriended the Jane Doe and gave her the ring before killing her........what do you think? A serial killer.............

Is this post a joke?

[gaia227]

Is this post a joke?

lol - I thought the same thing TomF.

I had never heard of Manhattan Jane Doe before. I am glad the case was bumped up.

It is interesting she was found in the basement covered by concrete.....the fact that she was entombed in concrete makes me think the person who killed her may have had regular access and license to be in the basement. I am not sure how long it takes to pour concrete but you have to be able to get the supples down there, pour it and let it dry. It seems if you did not belong in that area it would seem a little suspicious lugging dry concrete to the basement.

I know in my NYC apt the basement is always locked.

[future criminologist]

I wonder why the police think she could be of Irish descent.

also, maybe she wasn't a prostitute, but a nanny looking on a night out in Manhattan? sounds like the Swedish nanny case here in Boston about 10 years ago, when they only found half of her, in a dumpster. :(

I've noticed Doe Network posting more international disappearances. maybe it's time to start looking at U.K. missing persons cases for a hint?

[future criminologist]

can we also bump this to the UID threads? since she is both a UID and a cold case?

[shadowangel]

I recall discussing this case a few years ago in an earlier thread. The indications (and not all that strong, I'll admit) that she may have been Irish were that her hair was red (or reddish) and that she had the P McG ring.

The thing about this that got me was the fact that she was wrapped up in a blanket/carpet then encased in concrete. I actually sat down with my friendly home repair box-store salesman and figured out how much concrete that would take..And it wasn't a small amount. This was a public building, not someone "putting a new floor" in their own garage. It had to have been some undertaking, unless she was placed there when the building was built/renovated---Which I highly doubt, as it sounds like this is an old building.
Puzzling, to say the least.

[Gray]

I found one man in his late 30's that lives in NYC and signed his name as P McG on a blog.

He has some interesting poetry on one of his blogs.

Total speculation, but it's still interesting to me that he's used the moniker "P McG", has poetry which talks about a young girl being hit by a bus, and lives in NYC. Probably just coincidence.

[outofthedark]

Maybe the P McG ring didn't belong to her, maybe it belonged to her killer or maybe it doesn't belong to either of them and might actually belong to people they knew. Maybe the ring belonged to some complete stranger and it was stolen from them

[kylie]

Is this post a joke?

No it was not a joke

[gaia227]

I recall discussing this case a few years ago in an earlier thread. The indications (and not all that strong, I'll admit) that she may have been Irish were that her hair was red (or reddish) and that she had the P McG ring.

The thing about this that got me was the fact that she was wrapped up in a blanket/carpet then encased in concrete. I actually sat down with my friendly home repair box-store salesman and figured out how much concrete that would take..And it wasn't a small amount. This was a public building, not someone "putting a new floor" in their own garage. It had to have been some undertaking, unless she was placed there when the building was built/renovated---Which I highly doubt, as it sounds like this is an old building.
Puzzling, to say the least.

I agree. I said a similar thing in my earlier post. The fact that this was a public building is what makes the poured cement interestting. It leads me to believe the perp had a strong connection with the building, it was not abnormal to see this person around the building and in the basemet which made it easier for him to take the concrete mix into the basement to pour it over the body without raising too much suspicion.

[shadowangel]

I agree. I said a similar thing in my earlier post. The fact that this was a public building is what makes the poured cement interestting. It leads me to believe the perp had a strong connection with the building, it was not abnormal to see this person around the building and in the basemet which made it easier for him to take the concrete mix into the basement to pour it over the body without raising too much suspicion.

As for what we figured up, the sales guy said no one would mix this amount of concrete by hand, unless they had a long time to do it. More likely, it would be mixed by machine on scene or, even more likely in the city, be delivered by truck and sent down on a chute. That's why I started wondering if there was any construction going on in the area... Like Mack Ray Edwards in California, getting rid of the bodies of the children he murdered at highway construction sites.

[MadeaBecBec]

This missing female is a possibility;
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2765dfco.html
Penny McClees
Missing since February 18, 1985 from Aurora, Colorado
Classification: Endangered Missing

Circumstances of Disappearance
On February 18, 1985 at 8:59 a.m., Aurora Police officers responded to the home of John and Penny McClees in the 2500 block of South Pagosa Court, on a report that Penny McClees was missing.
After an exhaustive investigation, the whereabouts of Penny has yet to be determined.
Over the years, police have developed leads into the disappearance of Penny, but have yet to determine her possible whereabouts. It is suspected that Penny may have met with foul play.

Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Aurora Police Department
Detective Conner
303-739–6190

I wonder why no age, height, weight, hair color given for McClees? I may have to call LE to find out, hopefully they will elaborate...
Here's Side by Side of JD and McClees

[:+:MrTT:+:]

P McG.................
........................Pamela/ McGrier
.................................................. ..........or something similar sounding??...........just a hunch, noting for sure or certain..........just the first name i thought of when i read the initials, so i thought i post it just to add it............All MOO....and pure speculation on my part.