Decomp smell

[BrandyMarie]

How long does it take a body to really start to smell?

I'm wondering if her parents smelled it when they picked the car up and LE smelled it when they searched...how long was the body in and out of the car?
Seriously, if it was in the trunk for a few hours(driving to an alternate location)...could it smell that bad and can the smell linger for weeks? Seriously, why would the smell be there 3 weeks to a month after the fact?

[truecrime]

I'm wondering if her parents smelled it when they picked the car up and LE smelled it when they searched...how long was the body in and out of the car?
Seriously, if it was in the trunk for a few hours(driving to an alternate location)...could it smell that bad and can the smell linger for weeks? Seriously, why would the smell be there 3 weeks to a month after the fact?[/quote]

Pallor mortis (Latin (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Latin): paleness of death) is a postmortem (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Postmortem) paleness which happens in those with light skin almost instantly (in the 15–120 minutes after the death) because of a lack of capillary (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Capillary) circulation throughout the body (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Body). The blood sinks down into the lower parts of the body creating the Livor mortis (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Livor_mortis).
Paleness develops so rapidly after death that it has little to no use in determining the time of death, aside from saying that it either happened less than 30 minutes ago or more, which could help if the body was found very quickly after death.
But it all depends on the conditions where the dead thing is.
if it is hot it will decompose faster and will start to smell. If it is cold it takes longer.
So if it's 80 degrees a dead body will start to smell alot sooner than one that is where the temperature is cold outside
with light skin almost instantly (in the 15–120 minutes after the death) because of a lack of capillary (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Capillary) circulation throughout the body (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Body). The blood sinks down into the lower parts of the body creating the Livor mortis (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Livor_mortis).
Livor mortis or postmortem lividity or hypostasis (Latin (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Latin): livor—bluish color, mortis—of death), one of the signs of death (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Death), is a settling of the blood (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Blood) in the lower (dependent) portion of the body, causing a purplish red discoloration of the skin:
Coroners (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Coroner) can use the presence or absence of livor mortis as a means of determining an approximate time of death. The presence of livor mortis is an indication not to start CPR (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Cardiopulmonary_resuscitation), or to stop it if it is in progress. It can also be used by forensic investigators to determine whether or not a body has been moved (for instance, if the body is found lying face down but the pooling is present on its back, investigators can determine that the body was originally positioned face up).
Livor mortis starts 20 minutes to 3 hours after death and is congealed in the capillaries in 4 to 5 hours. Maximum lividity occurs within 6-12 hours.
Decomposition (or spoilage) refers to the reduction of the body of a formerly living organism (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Organism) into simpler forms of matter. The body of a living organism begins to decompose (as part of a succession) shortly after death (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Death). Such decomposition can be categorized by two stages: In the first stage, it is limited to the production of vapors. In the second stage, liquid materials form and the flesh or plant matter begins to decompose.
Environmental influences affect decomposition. A body that is exposed to air (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Air) will decompose more quickly and exhibit more insect (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Insect) activity. A buried body will decompose eight times slower than a body exposed to air. This is due in part to limited insect activity and possibly lower temperatures. Likewise a body submerged in water decomposes at half the rate of an exposed body. The rate of decomposition depends on the temperature of the water. Cold water slows decomposition and warm water causes faster decomposition. The body is also shielded from insect activity as long as it is submerged.

[santos1014]

Sadly, there was a case many years ago in a neighboring state, a small boy went missing. Everyone looked and looked, to no avail, several weeks went by, and the father began to smell something in his car. The little boy had hidden in the wheel well of the family's older model station wagon, and had become trapped there. That poor family drove that car around without knowing their precious baby was there.
It was an airtight compartment, so it did take a while for the smell to develop.

[liltigress]

OMG I could have went a few more days not hearing that. Thanks!

Ewww... and woahhhhhhh.. that is really horrible.

[Cubby]

Hoping someone can answer this question. I'm not even sure how to factor winds in here, but on average how far would the smell of a decomposing body linger? Especially in warm summer months. Feet, yards, blocks?

tia

[AlwaysShocked]

I think there have been numerous cases of people living in a neighboring apartment reporting an odor and police discovering a dead body next door.

Not blocks, though.

[wallflower67]

an ex-bf of mine worked for a towing company. they ended up dealing with a car in which someone had committed suicide a few days before. the person's body had been in the car for several days...hot days. The people driving the tow truck could hardly stand it, and they were in an air-conditioned cab with the towed cars windows rolled up.

When they arrived at the police impound lot, they were instructed to take the car as far away as the building as possible. My bf said you could could hardly still hardly stand to breathe the air.

It was that bad.

[txsvicki]

I have no idea if it's true, but I've heard that you can't get the smell out of things like cars.

[BrandyMarie]

So lets say her body was in the car for hours or even days....I guess my questions is, would it still smell several weeks later?

When did her parents pick up the car? Did they ever state that the smell was there when they picked it up?

[LinetteH]

I have not smelled a dead human body but we used to go fishing by a lake and we got out of the van one day and this horrible smell hit me like a ton of bricks. I actually threw up since the smell was so bad. We had been fishing at this place just 3 days before this and had not smelled a thing--my husband went looking and there was a dog that had been shot about 1/4 mile from where we parked! I will never forget that smell...this was a full-grown lab sized dog and the smell was horrific. Needless to say we left and never returned to fish in that area again. I just can't iamgine how badly a human body would smell...

[LI_Mom]

It's obviously a pizza.... the "Dahmer Supreme".... hold the anchovies.

[my2cents]

Hoping someone can answer this question. I'm not even sure how to factor winds in here, but on average how far would the smell of a decomposing body linger? Especially in warm summer months. Feet, yards, blocks?

tia

I lived in an apartment complex a few years ago. It was the 2 story type townhouse deals, so the width was a bit smaller than a reg apartment would be (the front doors were closer to eachother is what I am trying to say). A guy drank himself to death 4 doors over and was found 4 days later. It stunk. It was bad. That was 4 doors down. Maybe 60 feet away or a little further. This was in wintertime in Georgia though, so I bet it didn't smell as bad as the FL heat in July.

[BrandyMarie]

But I mean after after the body is removed from any location, how long would the smell stay?

[BrandyMarie]

And when was the car picked up from impound?

[my2cents]

But I mean after after the body is removed from any location, how long would the smell stay?

When they cleaned the house out, they had to throw most everything away (bed, sheets, blankets, and clothing). The dumpster where they threw the stuff stunk until it was removed. I never went in the apartment, so I don't know if there was a lingering smell in there. I think once the "stuff" that causes the smell touches something, that it is pretty much in there. My guess is that Fabreeze won't work (or much else for that matter).

[my2cents]

BrandieMarie,

An afterthought...the apt. complex did paint and install new carpet, which was not the norm if a tenant only lived there for a short time, so I am guessing the smell may linger in the walls and carpets.

[Texana]

If the smell is bad enough that people can know something is wrong from outside an apartment door, I think that it would most definitely linger for some time in a car. Without getting too graphic, the smell is coming from chemicals being released from the tissue decomposition--so literally, it's soaking into the surroundings.

There is no way ever it would resemble even remotely a little left over pizza--and since we carpool ballet dancers all the time, there's been more than one instance of "forgotten" food in the very back seat. It's never been anything near as bad as the descriptions of decomposition--even a milkshake left in the heat for days!

[believe09]

Regarding this thread-I may have posted this before in my dreams, I do not know...I would think that in order for the smell of decomp and bodily fluids to be so significant, we must be talking about a body that was wet in some way...I mean if you have a body in a car in the hot sun, would it turn to shoe leather like the reporter's pizza, or would it swell etc???

I would like to point out now that the media links people are posting indicate that there are bodily fluids in the car as well, rather than a stain that "glowed under uv light."

[ShouldBWorking]

A body that is exposed to air will decompose more quickly and exhibit more insect activity.

in the definition this jumped out at me, maggots were supposedly in the trunk, I have to admit my car was filthy when I was a teen and I never remember maggots being on any of the nasty fast food bags I would get rid of when my dad threatened to take my car away if I didn't clean it up

[websurfer]

During the Winter a stray cat had found it's way under our porch.It obviously had gone under there to warm up some.
The dryer exhaust sends out warm air when the dryer is going.
Anyway,
as I was decending the steps near the porch, a strong awful smell was hitting my nose.
it is a smell like no other.
only way to describe it is overwhelmingly strong. intense.
I then proceeded to follow where the smell was most strong.
Under a stack of wood was the dead cat.
It was there for I do not know how long ?
So judging the length of time it took for it to begin decaying enough to smell in cold weather, I could not say.
But I do know that little cat smelled nasty under there.I was glad for the chilly days of Winter, that at least kept the flies away.
my husband had a hard time finding a good spot to lay the poor thing to rest,the ground was mostly frozen.
So, if a human smells worse than that poor dead cat, well....the car Casey had that the dog hit on, and the yard is understandable.
We had that yucky smell there for a long time...
it permiated the soil it was dead on.
So that is the only way I know the smell of death from...
And I really doubt food could do that unless it was raw meat to begin with...

[websurfer]

Regarding this thread-I may have posted this before in my dreams, I do not know...I would think that in order for the smell of decomp and bodily fluids to be so significant, we must be talking about a body that was wet in some way...I mean if you have a body in a car in the hot sun, would it turn to shoe leather like the reporter's pizza, or would it swell etc???

I would like to point out now that the media links people are posting indicate that there are bodily fluids in the car as well, rather than a stain that "glowed under uv light."


The body "Bloats" due to the body fluids decomposing.
Of course heat speads any kind of decomposition.
Water also.
but I have watched shows dealing with decomposition.
in those shows it was pointed out that
a body depending on the surface it is laying on contributes also to the decomposition.
A few times a body was found partially in a stream and partially out of it.
The body which side or part was above the water had decomposed faster,this was due to the animal activity around the body.
Also due to the air ,the weather.
in fact the body in this example was frozen and found after a Spring thaw.
So the body was preserved pretty well.
I do look on THE DOE NETWORk also and find
details on such unidentified persons.
Some of the bodies are skeletonized, some are partially decomposed, and some are frozen and not decomposed.
Being Florida and IF...Caylee is out there in the elements...
I really would like a conclusion to this mystery...
it is hard to sleep knowing this beautiful sweet child is missing.

[FLbeachdawg]

I have no idea if it's true, but I've heard that you can't get the smell out of things like cars.

well think about it...you can't even get nasty cigarette smell out. If you go to buy a used car you can tell IMMEDIATELY if a smoker had the car...no matter how much cleaning they do...

[Georgia101957]

Here is a link to a video on youtube that shows the decomposition of a baby pig.

WARNING THIS IS VERY GRAPHIC

a little background about this video

"Dr. Jerry Payne's time lapse movie of the decomposition of a baby pig. The technique of time-lapse photography is employed to illustrate the rapid removal of carrion (4 days reduced to approximately 6 minutes). The film demonstrates the sequence of tissue destruction and the role of insects in the ultimate dismemberment of the pig carcass and soil movement. The pink and purple beads were added to show the intense activities of the insects in moving the carcass and soil.
Payne writes..."My study was the first "detailed" study of succession in animal decomposition and the first with the pig as the model. The significance of the pig is that it closely approximates the human body (skin, body hair, size etc.) so the data generated could be used in modern forensic science to approximate the time of human deaths. At that time it was simply not possibly (moral/ethical/legal concerns) to perform decompositon studies with human corpses, I know because I tried and was denied. Even so there were many instances where some concerned person buried my research pigs."
The pigs used in the experiment were dead when Jerry Payne picked them up from local farmers. Mama pigs (sows) often lay down on their tiny piglets and crush them. This was very common on small farms and led to the invention and deployment of farrowing pens(birthing pens) where the sow is contained and the piglets have a heated space where they are not in danger of being crushed."


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5138752215932372669&q=decomposition&ei=xX6TSJ6fIoWqrgKdh8DhBQ

[my2cents]

Here is a link to a video on youtube that shows the decomposition of a baby pig.

WARNING THIS IS VERY GRAPHIC

a little background about this video

"Dr. Jerry Payne's time lapse movie of the decomposition of a baby pig. The technique of time-lapse photography is employed to illustrate the rapid removal of carrion (4 days reduced to approximately 6 minutes). The film demonstrates the sequence of tissue destruction and the role of insects in the ultimate dismemberment of the pig carcass and soil movement. The pink and purple beads were added to show the intense activities of the insects in moving the carcass and soil.
Payne writes..."My study was the first "detailed" study of succession in animal decomposition and the first with the pig as the model. The significance of the pig is that it closely approximates the human body (skin, body hair, size etc.) so the data generated could be used in modern forensic science to approximate the time of human deaths. At that time it was simply not possibly (moral/ethical/legal concerns) to perform decompositon studies with human corpses, I know because I tried and was denied. Even so there were many instances where some concerned person buried my research pigs."
The pigs used in the experiment were dead when Jerry Payne picked them up from local farmers. Mama pigs (sows) often lay down on their tiny piglets and crush them. This was very common on small farms and led to the invention and deployment of farrowing pens(birthing pens) where the sow is contained and the piglets have a heated space where they are not in danger of being crushed."


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5138752215932372669&q=decomposition&ei=xX6TSJ6fIoWqrgKdh8DhBQ

Oh Georgia, that was really disgusting! I think that it really does give a good starting point for determining at what point Caylee may have been put in the trunk. (There has been talk on other threads that the pizza had maggots because the body was in the trunk). Flies were all over that thing within a couple of hours, so it is likely that she was put in the trunk right away and the flies would have still been present (causing the maggots on the pizza).

Good find with that video.

If you are an animal lover, don't watch it though :(

[wallflower67]

I've been reading up on decomp, and I have a stupid question I can't find the answer to. Is a blowfly the same thing as the flies I get in my house? Just a regular old fly? The kind that likes my dog's poo?

[Vegas Bride]

One thing I was wondering about with the smell being so bad from the car, wouldn't the person who had towed it to be inpounded have smelled it also? I would think there would have been a call made then to the pd so it could be looked into, what if there had still been a body in the trunk?

VB

[distracted]

One thing I was wondering about with the smell being so bad from the car, wouldn't the person who had towed it to be inpounded have smelled it also? I would think there would have been a call made then to the pd so it could be looked into, what if there had still been a body in the trunk?

I've wondered about that, too. Perhaps it wasn't in the car very long.

[QuickAttack]

One thing I was wondering about with the smell being so bad from the car, wouldn't the person who had towed it to be inpounded have smelled it also? I would think there would have been a call made then to the pd so it could be looked into, what if there had still been a body in the trunk?

VB

Maybe not. It's not necessary for the tow truck driver to open the car--and in the case of some tow trucks, they never leave the cab of the truck. Lots of tow trucks these days have the capability to just back up, clamp on to the vehicle, and pull off.

[SusieClue]

Question to maggot experts. Can't maggots feed on sweat too? I only ask because we had a situation in our garage where my husband keeps his bicycle trainer. Basically he rides it there for hours and drips sweat like anything...anyway at one point he found little white worms (I'm sure they were maggots) all over the fabric piece he has directly beneath where he sweats which is used to keep sweat off of the bike. It was so disgusting. well, for what that's worth, I'm fairly certain there was no decomp on that thing....

Just curious...I still believe the trunk of Caylee's car contained a body, not a pizza.

[Medusa]

I have a question- what would happen if soiled diapers were left in a car? Obviously, they would smell. But, left long enough could they attract maggots and make a cadaver dog hit?

[Parker]

Hey Medusa - I think that cadaver dogs are specifically trained to recognize the distinct odor of human decomposition so no, they should not hit on the smell of feces. While still a disgusting smell for sure - it certainly doesn't mimic human decomposition.

[Medusa]

Hey Medusa - I think that cadaver dogs are specifically trained to recognize the distinct odor of human decomposition so no, they should not hit on the smell of feces. While still a disgusting smell for sure - it certainly doesn't mimic human decomposition.


Thanks, I just wondered. Especially if the diaper was in the car for a long time. Luckily, I have never smelled either (long term diaper) or a body.

[SailorMoon]

I've asked this before and I'm just curious, does decomp of a human smell the same as an animal?

[Shelayne]

Note to self: not a thread to read before lunch.

I haven't posted for a looong time, but this case is one of those that brings me back to WS!

Just a note about decomposition, a former beau of mine had a freezer in the basement where his family would freeze a half side of beef every winter. Well, one winter they went on a long vacation, and the freezer died while they were gone. Apparently, it was the most horrible smell they ever encountered, and they only opened the freezer once. They disposed of it, but also had to replace the carpet (putrid water had leaked out)and repaint to get rid of the smell that had permeated from that rotten meat. Keep in mind, this was meat that was butchered and packaged for them, not a body that slowly decomposed, and they couldn't stand it.

Just from his description of that event (obviously it has stayed with me for many years), I cannot even imagine, nor do I ever want to experience, the smell of human remains.

**shudder**

[zelmajane]

http://mythbustersresults.com/episode7

I watched an episode of Mythbusters on this before.

The smell doesn't go away.

[songline]

one thing i was wondering about with the smell being so bad from the car, wouldn't the person who had towed it to be inpounded have smelled it also? I would think there would have been a call made then to the pd so it could be looked into, what if there had still been a body in the trunk?

Vb

good point!!!

[wallflower67]

I read up on cadaver dogs. Human decomp smells differernt from animal decomp to the dogs. I don't know how it would smell to us humans compared to freezer full of rotton meat.

does anyone have the experience of smelling both human and large animal decomp?

[Nuisanceposter]

Hi, all. I'm not a maggot expert, but I do know that maggots will only eat rotten and decomposing flesh. Specially-raised sterile maggots are used to clean wounds because they will only devour any decomposing flesh and will not touch the live, healthy tissue at all.

So what was on that pizza? Was it a sausage and hamburger pizza or something like that? Maggots aren't going to infest a plain cheese pizza.

And cadaver dogs are specifically trained to recognize the difference between decomposing human remains and anything else, including animal remains. Humans may not be able to smell the difference, but the dogs can, and they're offered food and decomposing animals in training so they can be corrected if they think it's the same as human remains. That's how they learn to discern the difference and understand that their handlers want to be told when they smell human remains and only human remains.

Those dogs didn't smell a pizza, Cindy. They didn't smell a dead animal. They smelled a dead human. If it wasn't Caylee, then you need to figure out what other dead body was in that car, cause the dogs say one was there.

I don't get it...is the threat against Caylee and telling where she is magically going to be eradicated this Saturday when Casey's saying she's coming home, or why does Caylee have to wait til then to come home? To make sure it's an extra-super-special birthday?

[ThoughtFox]

This is so similar to Kimmer's thread, maybe these should be merged???

People are also talking about maggots and the odor of decomposition, and I don't really want to post both places.

[xcmmm]

Not sure how/if this would compare to a human but I thought I'd throw it out there. My son once picked up a dead cat from the road and put it in the trunk to take it to the local woods to bury. It was August in Georgia and my son swore he smelled that dead cat in his trunk for about a week afterward.

[Mohabi]

Here you go, all about maggots:

http://www.ucihs.uci.edu/som/pathology/sherman/faq2.htm#4

[JBean]

bumpity bump

[Sunshinegirl]

I found this on another site... I guess this description gives you an idea of the smell of a decomposing body (which I highly doubt could ever be mistaken with PIZZA)

if the homicide investigator smelled "decomposition", there was a dead body somewhere around the vicinity. I hate to be so graphic but, until you smell a cadaver, you haven't smelled anything bad. Imagine the smell of a hot tar pot, combined with the smell of a 5 gallon bucket full of rotten eggs, combined with a weeks worth of poopie diapers, combined with about 100 pounds of rotten fish, combined with the smell of a dead cow. Once you smell that smell, you never forget it and you will recognize it no matter where or when you smell it next. It's a very unique - and very bad -odor.

[MistyM]

*mental note* try not to decompose.

[SillyNilly]

A body that is exposed to air will decompose more quickly and exhibit more insect activity.

in the definition this jumped out at me, maggots were supposedly in the trunk, I have to admit my car was filthy when I was a teen and I never remember maggots being on any of the nasty fast food bags I would get rid of when my dad threatened to take my car away if I didn't clean it up

If the smell was that bad and there were actually maggots in the trunk of that car then that would lead one to believe there must have been an adequate amount of tissue to test for DNA, etc. That will not help Casey.

[L L & S]

*mental note* try not to decompose.lol!!

[tiffertots]

earlier I thought that Caylee might have still been in the trunk when the car was recovered, then, possibly reburied leading George and Cindy to be in on it...the mythbusters website claims that the pig corpse had actually caused condensation and deterioration of the upholstery. If her body was in the car when it was picked up wouldn't that have been clearly visable??

[SelmaClue]

A body that is exposed to air will decompose more quickly and exhibit more insect activity.

in the definition this jumped out at me, maggots were supposedly in the trunk, I have to admit my car was filthy when I was a teen and I never remember maggots being on any of the nasty fast food bags I would get rid of when my dad threatened to take my car away if I didn't clean it up

Hiya ShouldB,

I'm with you on this one. The back seat of my first jalopy had so many Jack In The Box, White Castle and A&W bags with food in them, I'd have to pull up to a dumpster every several months. Oh, to be young again and still be able to eat that bad food.
:eek:
At most, there was a slight aroma now and again (in summer), but maggots? No way.

Hey, didn't some media people do the pizza test? Or is that still not completed? Has anyone heard about the results or when they are due???

Selma

[SelmaClue]

Oh, I guess I have to post this:

If the pizza in question (however imaginary it might be) was not a cooked pizza, but a fresh or frozen pizza purchased at a grocery store, that would explain why it wasn't immediately removed from the trunk and consumed as a meal. It could have been forgotten about in the trunk and if it had uncooked meat on it, maggots would appear.

What do you think? Is it just getting to be too late in the evening for me to be posting?
:waitasec:

Selma

[JBean]

Oh, I guess I have to post this:

If the pizza in question (however imaginary it might be) was not a cooked pizza, but a fresh or frozen pizza purchased at a grocery store, that would explain why it wasn't immediately removed from the trunk and consumed as a meal. It could have been forgotten about in the trunk and if it had uncooked meat on it, maggots would appear.

What do you think? Is it just getting to be too late in the evening for me to be posting?
:waitasec:

Selmanever too late to post!

DO we know what kind of pizza it was?

[SelmaClue]

never too late to post!

DO we know what kind of pizza it was?

Okay! And no, we don't know, darn it. But if this is Cindy's story, we want DETAILS! Don't we?

[SuziQ]

Okay! And no, we don't know, darn it. But if this is Cindy's story, we want DETAILS! Don't we?

I volunteer you to do the uncooked pizza test. :)

[SelmaClue]

I volunteer you to do the uncooked pizza test. :)

Okay. May I borrow your car?
:crazy:

[SuziQ]

Okay. May I borrow your car?
:crazy:

Ummmm, NO! lol

[Amberjack]

earlier I thought that Caylee might have still been in the trunk when the car was recovered, then, possibly reburied leading George and Cindy to be in on it...the mythbusters website claims that the pig corpse had actually caused condensation and deterioration of the upholstery. If her body was in the car when it was picked up wouldn't that have been clearly visable??

Very possible....But, I see just George being involved in the disposal. The reason for his quietness?..Maybe his reason for pointing out the gas cans on June 24th...("Caylee was not in car")

[SusieClue]

never too late to post!

DO we know what kind of pizza it was?

The kind you buy and put in your trunk when you are trying to cover up a bad odor....let's market it and call it:

Pizza Febreeze!:doughboy:

"put one in your trunk and it will no longer smell like a skunk"
:rolleyes:

it's just a thot, people!

[Prayin_4_Grace]

I just heard Mark F tell Megan on Fox News that he had seen Caseys phone records via Lee and that a pizza was ordered from her phone after June 16. He didnt say from where and what the exact date was, but sometime right after the 16th.

[SelmaClue]

I just heard Mark F tell Megan on Fox News that he had seen Caseys phone records via Lee and that a pizza was ordered from her phone after June 16. He didnt say from where and what the exact date was, but sometime right after the 16th.

I'd like to hear the story. If you find a video link, would you post it please? So much for my theory about uncooked pizza. Drat. And SusieQ won't let me borrow her car. What a morning.
S

[SusieClue]

I just heard Mark F tell Megan on Fox News that he had seen Caseys phone records via Lee and that a pizza was ordered from her phone after June 16. He didnt say from where and what the exact date was, but sometime right after the 16th.

I'm sure this has been gone over before, but to clarify, was the pizza uneaten when it was discovered?

[SelmaClue]

earlier I thought that Caylee might have still been in the trunk when the car was recovered, then, possibly reburied leading George and Cindy to be in on it...the mythbusters website claims that the pig corpse had actually caused condensation and deterioration of the upholstery. If her body was in the car when it was picked up wouldn't that have been clearly visable??

Hi Tiffer,
I also read the MythBusters site. :puke:

Here's my question regarding the decomp scent: If that car stunk of decomp and if cadaver dogs hit on it also, why isn't that enough to officially call Casey Anthony a "suspect" instead of only a POI?
S

[Chezhire]

Very possible....But, I see just George being involved in the disposal. The reason for his quietness?..Maybe his reason for pointing out the gas cans on June 24th...("Caylee was not in car")

Amberjack - I also think this presently seems the most plausible reason for the gas cans story.

[SelmaClue]

I'm sure this has been gone over before, but to clarify, was the pizza uneaten when it was discovered?

Oh boy, we are SusieClue and SelmaClue. If I had seen your screen name before I chose mine, I'd have made up a different one. Apologies!

Pizza: Are you asking if it's been reported that the alleged pizza was partially eaten?

S

[Chezhire]

I just heard Mark F tell Megan on Fox News that he had seen Caseys phone records via Lee and that a pizza was ordered from her phone after June 16. He didnt say from where and what the exact date was, but sometime right after the 16th.

Does anyone really believe that Lee would share copies of phone records with anyone, even in an effort to corroborate Cindy's PIZZA story? seems he'd know better than to do that without first talking to Casey's 3 lawyers...whom one would expect would never agree with/bless the sharing of anything with MF...???

[SelmaClue]

Does anyone really believe that Lee would share copies of phone records with anyone, even in an effort to corroborate Cindy's PIZZA story? seems he'd know better than to do that without first talking to Casey's 3 lawyers...whom one would expect would never agree with/bless the sharing of anything with MF...???

Yes, I believe Lee would share this info publicly if it corroborates Cindy's pizza story. I believe he'd want a bit of info out here that shows people there's something that hasn't been a lie, if he could.
S

[SusieClue]

Oh boy, we are SusieClue and SelmaClue. If I had seen your screen name before I chose mine, I'd have made up a different one. Apologies!

Pizza: Are you asking if it's been reported that the alleged pizza was partially eaten?

S

Oh I could care less...the more clues the better! :crazy:
Yes, I was wondering if the pizza was eaten or just a full pizza.
thanks.

[dee10134]

I think their story of the pizza being the cause of the cadaver dog hit and the stench is bologna. There is NO way a rotten pizza would make a cadaver dog hit.

A decomposing body releases very distinct chemicals as it breaks down, namely putriscene and cadeverine, which as far as I know would not be created during the break down of a rotten pizza! They have created synthetic putriscene and cadaverine, which is used to train the cadaver dogs. If rotten pizza and decomposing bodies smell the same to dogs, wouldn't it just be cheaper to use rotten pizza to train the dogs than to create synthetic putriscene and cadaverine??

So if the pizza isn't the cause of the putriscene and/or cadaverine smell, then we all know what was the cause and it had to have been a human body.

[Thinking_Out_Loud]

Hello All,

This is my first time posting at Websleuths. I have been lurking for a while now, and was just accepted into your community. Out of all the different forums that discuss the Caylee Marie Anthony case, I think you all here at websleuths' are the most informed and informative.

I have some thoughts on the body decomposition and cadaver dog theory that I would like to throw out there.

There are many things that I have thought about this case. Apparently, when they train dogs, they train them with human hair, blood, bones, nails, and stuff like that. Sometimes, they do not have a human body to train them with, so they will use a bottle of chemicals that have been produced to smell like the chemicals produced by a decomposing human body.

I, also, noticed that people have been saying that a cadaver dog can distinguish between a human decomposing body and an animal. This is true, with the exception of pigs. Pigs are more chemically related to humans than any other animal. I remembered this from Biology in college. It was weird to me then, and its still weird to me now. At any rate, when a pig decomposes or lives, they still remain chemically linked to humans. Thus, dog trainers will often use pig remains instead of human remains. It is just easier to get their hands on a dead pig sometimes. After thinking about this, I googled it and found this amazing article about a dog named Shep and his trainer that would go looking for bodies. I would highly recommend reading it. It talks about the accuracy of the dogs.

I think it is possible that a dog might hit on a spot where pizza is if the pizza contains canadian bacon, sausage, or pepperoni. I tried to find out if the chemical composition would change after the meat was cured and seasoned, but I do not know at this point.

Also, if she had used feminine hygeine products, or hair clippings in her trunk, then the dog would hit on it.

As far as the odor, I would think that a nurse would be able to distinguish between the scents of death and old pizza. I don't know, there might be some strange smell manufactured by the maggots when the defacate pork. That might smell to high heaven.

In addition, I just wanted to note that I have had maggots on things that were not dead. A few weeks ago, I found all these maggots underneath my cat's water bowl. It was disgusting and I don't know what they were feeding on. There was nothing there except a piece of newspaper.

Thanks for your time. I am looking forward to your thoughts.

P.S. here's the link to that site I was talking about.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-csi-death-dogs-sniffing-out-the-truth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html

[Twoapennything]

Hello everyone -- first post here from a long time lurker.

When I was ten, our family took a two week vacation. Probably during the first couple of days we were gone, our housesitter died in our home. When we came home, the smell of decomposition was unbelievable. The smell of a decomposing human body is unique and distinctive and like nothing else.

We had to move out of the house for a month while disaster services completed a full restoration, which included carpet and drywall replacement and disinfection with extremely strong, very specific chemicals. Everything in the house had to be cleaned; we lost a lot of our belongings, as the smell of death permeated objects that could not be cleaned or salvaged. To say it was vile is an understatement. It was an extremely traumatic event for our family.

The reason I'm telling this story is that even years later, occasionally we would catch a feint whiff of decomposition. It obviously wasn't as strong or new as when the incident first happened, but it was, like I said, a very distinctive smell. It finally stopped, but it just goes to show that the gases and chemicals that a decomposing body produces is just insane!

If a body were left in a car long enough to decompose to the point of smelling, I personally would have no doubt that the smell could linger in the car long after the body itself was removed. Yes, it's that strong and permeating!

[SelmaClue]

Hello everyone -- first post here from a long time lurker.

When I was ten, our family took a two week vacation. Probably during the first couple of days we were gone, our housesitter died in our home.

:eek::eek::eek:

Hi Twoapennything! Thanks for your icky story! :eek::eek::eek:
I've never smelled decomp (thankfully) so I think you drove the point home for me!

Welcome aboard!
S

[MarleneM]

I think it is possible that a dog might hit on a spot where pizza is if the pizza contains canadian bacon, sausage, or pepperoni.

As far as the odor...there might be some strange smell manufactured by the maggots when the defacate pork. That might smell to high heaven.


Before I lose sight of facts I'm familiar with through personal experience by getting caught up in what-if's like these, let me testify here that I know what a pepperoni, ham, beef, and cheese pizza smells like after being left to harden and decompose in a car, and (at the risk of sounding disgusting) it's nowhere near the smell of putrid death.

Think about the days in your life you've come across a piece of cooked pizza in the trash. It's hard as a rock because of the stale crust and hardened cheese. Even an uncooked pizza is put together with precooked meat that doesn't turn rancid because most of it is cured. And anyone who bakes knows what dough smells like after it goes bad. Again, nothing like the distinct scent of death that we all can identify when we smell a dead animal.

Speaking only to Cindy Anthony's request for us to conduct "the Pizza Experiment": It's just insulting to the life experiences of any typical adult (certainly a domestic mother) that rotten food can be mistaken for a decomposing body. Like none of us have ever smelled rotten food before...

[impatientredhead]

I think their story of the pizza being the cause of the cadaver dog hit and the stench is bologna. There is NO way a rotten pizza would make a cadaver dog hit.

A decomposing body releases very distinct chemicals as it breaks down, namely putriscene and cadeverine, which as far as I know would not be created during the break down of a rotten pizza! They have created synthetic putriscene and cadaverine, which is used to train the cadaver dogs. If rotten pizza and decomposing bodies smell the same to dogs, wouldn't it just be cheaper to use rotten pizza to train the dogs than to create synthetic putriscene and cadaverine??

So if the pizza isn't the cause of the putriscene and/or cadaverine smell, then we all know what was the cause and it had to have been a human body.

Just clarifying on this, it is not actually the cadaverine or putriscene that the dogs are hitting on. All animals decomposing produce these chemicals. They can also exisit in much smaller quantities in live animals/people.

http://boards.webmd.com/webx?THDX@@.59ac841d!thdchild=.59ac841d A couple of examples, but it is also present in septic patients, and many other situations.

When they first started using cadaver dogs they were not sure what they smelling that was different from other animals, but they have identified over 400 chemicals released by a decaying body.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decomposition#Animal_decomposition- in animal decomposition section click on putrification.

[Amberjack]

Amberjack - I also think this presently seems the most plausible reason for the gas cans story.

Is George covering for Casey by saying he didn't "see" Caylee in the trunk?
The gas cans would have covered for a bundled Caylee
He says CASEY opened the trunk
Who took out the wedge? I think Casey......

[Thinking_Out_Loud]

Before I lose sight of facts I'm familiar with through personal experience by getting caught up in what-if's like these, let me testify here that I know what a pepperoni, ham, beef, and cheese pizza smells like after being left to harden and decompose in a car, and (at the risk of sounding disgusting) it's nowhere near the smell of putrid death.

Think about the days in your life you've come across a piece of cooked pizza in the trash. It's hard as a rock because of the stale crust and hardened cheese. Even an uncooked pizza is put together with precooked meat that doesn't turn rancid because most of it is cured. And anyone who bakes knows what dough smells like after it goes bad. Again, nothing like the distinct scent of death that we all can identify when we smell a dead animal.

Speaking only to Cindy Anthony's request for us to conduct "the Pizza Experiment": It's just insulting to the life experiences of any typical adult (certainly a domestic mother) that rotten food can be mistaken for a decomposing body. Like none of us have ever smelled rotten food before...

I just want to clarify that I do not think that I said that the smell was pizza. I said that a cadaver dog might detect the pork because they are trained on decomposing pigs. Actually, if we were talking hypothetically I would have blamed the smell on an unknown source. Some other dead thing that might have been in the car at some point. I have friends that put dead things in their other friends' cars and apartments as pranks. Apparently, they think it is funny when someone gets stinked out and cannot find it because it is in an air conditioner vent or something. It is what some young people do. I am a college student at UCF in Orlando. I live like a college student too, that is to say that I like to take out my trash about once a month. It stinks sometimes but does not smell like anything died. We also have a huge dumpster that smells up the whole neighborhood because it sits out there filled with garbage for about one week with the hot florida sun beating down on it. Again, doesn't smell like anything died. It is just rancid, and that is all. I have had maggots on things in my home too. The media has had some "experts" say that maggots will ONLY get on decaying flesh. Well, from personal experience that is not true. I have had them get on newspaper before.

For many weeks, I thought this girl had murdered her child because of the smell in the car, and the cadaver dogs' alerts; however, after extensive research, I cannot conclude that at all. I think that the lab results will let us know and that is that. Speculation does not always get us anywhere.

[dee10134]

I just want to clarify that I do not think that I said that the smell was pizza. I said that a cadaver dog might detect the pork because they are trained on decomposing pigs. Actually, if we were talking hypothetically I would have blamed the smell on an unknown source. Some other dead thing that might have been in the car at some point.

[snip]

For many weeks, I thought this girl had murdered her child because of the smell in the car, and the cadaver dogs' alerts; however, after extensive research, I cannot conclude that at all. I think that the lab results will let us know and that is that. Speculation does not always get us anywhere.

I don't think the smell was pizza either. As far as I understand, most pepperoni has been cured by salt and/or smoking the meat. Sausage is generally placed on the pizza raw, but cooked in the oven.

Cured and cooked meat does not decompose at the same rate or the same way that fresh pig flesh does. The sausage and pepperoni on a pizza would have been cooked, which I believe is an entirely different type of decomposition; more of a rancid, sour smell than a "dead body smell."

You're completely right about the maggots. Just because there were maggots, doesn't necessarily mean there was a body there. I know for a fact that maggots will be anywhere there is a food source and moisture, not necessarily on a meat source either.

With that said, I have no doubts in my mind that the cadaver dogs hit on the smell of HUMAN decomposition in Casey Anthony's trunk. The dogs are not trained to hit on other dead animals (besides pigs, maybe, but that all depends on the way the dog was trained). I guess the DNA test will be key to this aspect of the investigation.

[CASuzk]

I was thinking about the car last night also and then I remembered something, my good friend J's car.
I love J, she's funny and generous. We make an odd pair, she is 4'11", I'm 5'11", she is Asian, I'm blond with freckles. She can eat two big Macs, biggie fries, giant glup and still weigh 89 lbs; me, I can gain weight on a kid's meal. We have a great time together but I can't stand riding in her van! She mucks it out maybe twice a year; yes, mucks

She has four kids and when she was driving them all around, the car was a health hazard. Half eaten hamburgers spilled soda, pizza boxes with half a pizza, dirty underwear. balled up socks, used tissues and napkins, fruit, you name it, it was there. I have helped her take out two full trash bags of stuff that needed to be thrown away and there was sill at least two loads of laundry in the car.
The point of this is that it did smell in her car, I would ride like a dog, with my head out the window. But...it never smelled like a dead but once living thing. We live in a humid area and she parked the car in the sun. One time, I saw her same model car in a parking lot and to be sure that it was her car, I smelled the car and yes, the odor was there even with the windows up and car locked! It smelled like a trash can but not a dead body.

[Thinking_Out_Loud]

Does anyone hear know what a dead human body smells like? If so, could you please ellaborate? If you could, please compare it to another smell. This way some of us could know for this case.

I was walking my dog around my apartment complex yesterday morning, and I smelled this horrible rotten scent. I almost vomited, and my dog was smelling around the place like crazy. She wanted to go and investigate it, but I pulled her away. The smell was coming from around this one bottom floor apartment where its tenant had just opened and closed her sliding door. I thought maybe something could have died outside, but when I walked my dog back over there two hours later, the smell was gone. I think maybe it came from inside the apartment. That tenant must be a horrible caretaker if her apartment had such a putrid smell! After reading about how indescribable a dead body stinks, I thought maybe she has a dead body in there!

[impatientredhead]

I just want to clarify that I do not think that I said that the smell was pizza. I said that a cadaver dog might detect the pork because they are trained on decomposing pigs. Actually, if we were talking hypothetically I would have blamed the smell on an unknown source. Some other dead thing that might have been in the car at some point. I have friends that put dead things in their other friends' cars and apartments as pranks. Apparently, they think it is funny when someone gets stinked out and cannot find it because it is in an air conditioner vent or something. It is what some young people do. I am a college student at UCF in Orlando. I live like a college student too, that is to say that I like to take out my trash about once a month. It stinks sometimes but does not smell like anything died. We also have a huge dumpster that smells up the whole neighborhood because it sits out there filled with garbage for about one week with the hot florida sun beating down on it. Again, doesn't smell like anything died. It is just rancid, and that is all. I have had maggots on things in my home too. The media has had some "experts" say that maggots will ONLY get on decaying flesh. Well, from personal experience that is not true. I have had them get on newspaper before.

For many weeks, I thought this girl had murdered her child because of the smell in the car, and the cadaver dogs' alerts; however, after extensive research, I cannot conclude that at all. I think that the lab results will let us know and that is that. Speculation does not always get us anywhere.


I didn't think or mean to imply that you thought it was pizza. I just used yours as a jumping off point, but probably should have posted without a quote.

I do believe solidly in the dogs and their accuracy. I was just commenting on the chemicals they are indicating for.

[wallflower67]

Hello everyone -- first post here from a long time lurker.

When I was ten, our family took a two week vacation. Probably during the first couple of days we were gone, our housesitter died in our home. When we came home, the smell of decomposition was unbelievable. The smell of a decomposing human body is unique and distinctive and like nothing else.

We had to move out of the house for a month while disaster services completed a full restoration, which included carpet and drywall replacement and disinfection with extremely strong, very specific chemicals. Everything in the house had to be cleaned; we lost a lot of our belongings, as the smell of death permeated objects that could not be cleaned or salvaged. To say it was vile is an understatement. It was an extremely traumatic event for our family.

The reason I'm telling this story is that even years later, occasionally we would catch a feint whiff of decomposition. It obviously wasn't as strong or new as when the incident first happened, but it was, like I said, a very distinctive smell. It finally stopped, but it just goes to show that the gases and chemicals that a decomposing body produces is just insane!

If a body were left in a car long enough to decompose to the point of smelling, I personally would have no doubt that the smell could linger in the car long after the body itself was removed. Yes, it's that strong and permeating!

How horrible for you and your family! I would be freaked to move back into that house!

I can't remember if I posted this on this thread or not (and I'm too lazy to read back a few pages), but my high school bf and his dad worked for a towing company. They towed a car that a man had committed suicide in. It was summer and he had been in the car for 2 or 3 days. The people in the tow truck could smell it even with their windows up and the car's windows up. They had to put that car as far back in the impound lot as possible...it smelled that bad as soon as you got on the lot.

I, personally, did not choose to go check out the smell. I just know they could smell that thing hundreds of feet away.

[CASuzk]

Dead things smell, even my garage stunk from one small dead mouse. I don't even know how to describe it but you don't forget that smell, it's more stinky and in your mouth and nose than things like dog poop.
If the smell at the neighbor's house went away, she was probably cooking something. Menudo, Haggis, Chitin's, there are just some foods that don't smell good cooking.

One local store sells sheep heads around Easter, no I don't know why; but there they are, no skin but with the eyeballs and teeth in the meat department. Freaky as all get out. Can't imagine what that smells like cooking.

[my2cents]

Does anyone hear know what a dead human body smells like? If so, could you please ellaborate? If you could, please compare it to another smell. This way some of us could know for this case.


When I was in college, I lived in a complex in one of those 2 story type condos. They are narrow so the front doors are closer to each other than in a normal complex. They guy 4 doors down died in his apartment and was there 4 days before he was found. I could smell it when I walked outside my front door (maybe 60 feet down from his). It was TERRIBLE. There is no other smell that it comes close to comparing too. You just KNOW what it is and you KNOW its dead.

The family took all his stuff and threw it away because the smell was embedded in everything. The complex went in had a repair truck out there for a week doing painting and sheet-rock and carpet. This was not the norm at this complex, so the smell must have been embedded.

The only thing that I can think of that is even a fraction of the stench is a dead animal. If you have animals that have ever brought you a dead animal that they found (mine are notorious for doing this!) then imagine that smell multiplied by 1,000. I can't describe it, but it embeds in your nostrils and in your throat and it sticks there for a while.

It's very distinct. Once you smell it, you KNOW what it is.

[Thinking_Out_Loud]

When I was in college, I lived in a complex in one of those 2 story type condos. They are narrow so the front doors are closer to each other than in a normal complex. They guy 4 doors down died in his apartment and was there 4 days before he was found. I could smell it when I walked outside my front door (maybe 60 feet down from his). It was TERRIBLE. There is no other smell that it comes close to comparing too. You just KNOW what it is and you KNOW its dead.

The family took all his stuff and threw it away because the smell was embedded in everything. The complex went in had a repair truck out there for a week doing painting and sheet-rock and carpet. This was not the norm at this complex, so the smell must have been embedded.

The only thing that I can think of that is even a fraction of the stench is a dead animal. If you have animals that have ever brought you a dead animal that they found (mine are notorious for doing this!) then imagine that smell multiplied by 1,000. I can't describe it, but it embeds in your nostrils and in your throat and it sticks there for a while.

It's very distinct. Once you smell it, you KNOW what it is.

Ew..

I used to live in a house, and my neighbor died. He had been in there a few days before anyone found him, and I did not smell anything. Your description makes me realize how fortunate I was not to have smelled that!

Someone on another forum had compared the smell to a rancid steak. Another compared the smell to an abandoned fish market. These, of course, are two distinct smells. It confused me. I have smelled dead animals before and I could definitely tell that is not pizza; however, a dead squirrel smells like a dead cat, or a dead dog, or a dead chicken, or a dead raccoon. It seems to me that something could have crawled up under the car and died.

I wish we knew what those test results were on the car...

[krimekat]

So, the car was retrieved from tow lot by George Anthony on 15 Jul while Cindy picks up Casey from TonEs per Amy, makes 911 #1 call & 911 #2 call, returns home, smells the car & makes call #3?

[wallflower67]

Ew..

I used to live in a house, and my neighbor died. He had been in there a few days before anyone found him, and I did not smell anything. Your description makes me realize how fortunate I was not to have smelled that!

Someone on another forum had compared the smell to a rancid steak. Another compared the smell to an abandoned fish market. These, of course, are two distinct smells. It confused me. I have smelled dead animals before and I could definitely tell that is not pizza; however, a dead squirrel smells like a dead cat, or a dead dog, or a dead chicken, or a dead raccoon. It seems to me that something could have crawled up under the car and died.

I wish we knew what those test results were on the car...

From what I understand, the cadavar dogs can distinguish between other animals, and human decomp. Except someone said pigs are close enough. I can't imagine pizza making as big of a stink as even a dead mouse. I've had both old half-eaten burgers (yes, for over a week, I know, it's gross!) and dead mice. The mouse was quite noticeable. The burgers just dried up and didn't smell much at all. Maybe because they were cooked?

I know if I throw fresh meat out that has expired, I don't take it out of the fridge and put it in the trash until the day the trash goes out. Or my garage will stink to high Heaven. But other food...yeah, it gets smelly, but just annoyingly so, not can't stand to breathe.

[Chezhire]

Is George covering for Casey by saying he didn't "see" Caylee in the trunk?
The gas cans would have covered for a bundled Caylee
He says CASEY opened the trunk
Who took out the wedge? I think Casey......

bet they're waiting to see what the trunk results are going to be before lockign in to who exactly saw what and when, but it sets it up as a potential defense IF the testing prooves inconclusive...
thoughts?

[Chezhire]

How horrible for you and your family! I would be freaked to move back into that house!

I can't remember if I posted this on this thread or not (and I'm too lazy to read back a few pages), but my high school bf and his dad worked for a towing company. They towed a car that a man had committed suicide in. It was summer and he had been in the car for 2 or 3 days. The people in the tow truck could smell it even with their windows up and the car's windows up. They had to put that car as far back in the impound lot as possible...it smelled that bad as soon as you got on the lot.

I, personally, did not choose to go check out the smell. I just know they could smell that thing hundreds of feet away.

some WSers have pondered the "what if" of Caylee (I hope it's not true) being deceased and in the truck of the car when George picked it up from the impound, but after reading your comments, I'd be willing to bet that in the July FL heat, ppl at Amscot AND the towing company wold have alerted LE immediately to that kind of smell... so I don't think there was anyone's body in that trunk when George picked it up from the impound/tow lot...

[headndownstream]

Hello All,

This is my first time posting at Websleuths. I have been lurking for a while now, and was just accepted into your community. Out of all the different forums that discuss the Caylee Marie Anthony case, I think you all here at websleuths' are the most informed and informative.

I have some thoughts on the body decomposition and cadaver dog theory that I would like to throw out there.

There are many things that I have thought about this case. Apparently, when they train dogs, they train them with human hair, blood, bones, nails, and stuff like that. Sometimes, they do not have a human body to train them with, so they will use a bottle of chemicals that have been produced to smell like the chemicals produced by a decomposing human body.

I, also, noticed that people have been saying that a cadaver dog can distinguish between a human decomposing body and an animal. This is true, with the exception of pigs. Pigs are more chemically related to humans than any other animal. I remembered this from Biology in college. It was weird to me then, and its still weird to me now. At any rate, when a pig decomposes or lives, they still remain chemically linked to humans. Thus, dog trainers will often use pig remains instead of human remains. It is just easier to get their hands on a dead pig sometimes. After thinking about this, I googled it and found this amazing article about a dog named Shep and his trainer that would go looking for bodies. I would highly recommend reading it. It talks about the accuracy of the dogs.

I think it is possible that a dog might hit on a spot where pizza is if the pizza contains canadian bacon, sausage, or pepperoni. I tried to find out if the chemical composition would change after the meat was cured and seasoned, but I do not know at this point.

Also, if she had used feminine hygeine products, or hair clippings in her trunk, then the dog would hit on it.

As far as the odor, I would think that a nurse would be able to distinguish between the scents of death and old pizza. I don't know, there might be some strange smell manufactured by the maggots when the defacate pork. That might smell to high heaven.

In addition, I just wanted to note that I have had maggots on things that were not dead. A few weeks ago, I found all these maggots underneath my cat's water bowl. It was disgusting and I don't know what they were feeding on. There was nothing there except a piece of newspaper.

Thanks for your time. I am looking forward to your thoughts.

P.S. here's the link to that site I was talking about.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-csi-death-dogs-sniffing-out-the-truth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html

From one new person to another, hi! That was very interesting. I really never knew much at all about cadaver dogs, until this past month.

[headndownstream]

I wanted to say I've been a nurse for 30+ years and am not sure what decomposition smells like. I know the odor of gangrene, unforgettable. But human decomp?, well, I guess I was lucky, we moved them out before that set in.

[impatientredhead]

Dead things smell, even my garage stunk from one small dead mouse. I don't even know how to describe it but you don't forget that smell, it's more stinky and in your mouth and nose than things like dog poop.

<snip>

.


One of the items I read about the topic said that putriscene and cadavarine are both heavier than oxygen, so you get that clinging to you effect that you describe.

[JBean]

some WSers have pondered the "what if" of Caylee (I hope it's not true) being deceased and in the truck of the car when George picked it up from the impound, but after reading your comments, I'd be willing to bet that in the July FL heat, ppl at Amscot AND the towing company wold have alerted LE immediately to that kind of smell... so I don't think there was anyone's body in that trunk when George picked it up from the impound/tow lot...
You know this reminded me of a case last year. A woman was killed in a car crash, but no one realized that she was in the passenger seat and she managed to end up under the airbag...dead. The car was taken off to the tow yard with her inside and no one knew it.
Relatives reported her missing the next day and the authorites checked the car more than 24 hours later and there she was. They determined she had died on impact at the accident..so she had been dead for at least 30 hours before she was discovered. The tow company didn't notice a thing.

[pang223]

I myself have never had the misfortune to smell a dead body but I do know people who have and they all say it's unmistakable. Just think about all of the news reports you've read about police finding dead bodies because of neighbors reporting a horrible smell. And when they quote the people that called police, they all say the same thing: There was this HORRIBLE smell in the air and I didn't know what it was... or...I've never smelled anything LIKE what was coming from that house.

I hope I NEVER have to smell it.

[websurfer]

He has every right to question the ability of the dogs and handlers.
What he is doing is to question the ability of the handlers to taint or steer the dogs to their way of thinking.
one handler says yes that false positives can occur if, the handler tightens up or gives off some sort of tense signal.
But that depends on if they know something ahead of time.

How can anybody think the handlers knew anything the first time in the yard?

Ok so if anybody doubts these sets of dogs.
Shouldn't a handler come from someplace who is not near this area and let their dogs do a search?
:confused:

[JBean]

bumping for more discussion. the more we talk about this on the geraldo thread, the more intriguing it becomes.

[GizzySmith]

Interesting article, Odor sensor could help find decomposing bodies. Two things I found of interest.

1. Vass tested an air sample from the trunk of the car the child's mother drove, where a cadaver dog had signaled he picked up a scent.

Vass said he couldn't comment on the results since the investigation is continuing. This tells me that the results are definately back.

2.Vass and Marc Wise, another Oak Ridge researcher, have been working for years to pin down the signature combination of chemicals that indicate a human body is buried beneath the earth. They also had to catalog the emissions of plants and animal remains, which give off similar odors and chemicals that can throw off the scent for a cadaver dog. Names some of the things that can throw off the scent of cadaver dog and that animal remains are similar scent to humans.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080824/NEWS03/808240420/1017/NEWS01

[JBean]

Interesting article, Odor sensor could help find decomposing bodies. Two things I found of interest.

1. Vass tested an air sample from the trunk of the car the child's mother drove, where a cadaver dog had signaled he picked up a scent.

Vass said he couldn't comment on the results since the investigation is continuing. This tells me that the results are definately back.

2.Vass and Marc Wise, another Oak Ridge researcher, have been working for years to pin down the signature combination of chemicals that indicate a human body is buried beneath the earth. They also had to catalog the emissions of plants and animal remains, which give off similar odors and chemicals that can throw off the scent for a cadaver dog. Names some of the things that can throw off the scent of cadaver dog and that animal remains are similar scent to humans.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080824/NEWS03/808240420/1017/NEWS01

Very interesting article and thank you for posting.
Something is way off about the decomp smell and the test results imo.

[janiekay]

I also read another one about the "body farm". It is a very different type of experimental precedure from most. I do think their research is very much needed and could be very useful in finding bodies quicker and more reliably than cadaver dogs. Look at this quote from the article,

"With the August heat wearing on the 24-year-old's body for three days, it was already too badly decomposed to determine a cause of death."

3 days after the death of Janet March, her body was too badly decomposed to determine a cause of death. It has been over 2 months since Caylee was last seen...I'm afraid that there is not much to find anymore. I'm sorry to be negative, but I just don't believe that she is alive anymore. The biggest key is the trunk. If it wasn't Caylee's remains in the trunk, who was in there??? Nobody else is associated with the family and missing, except Zainada, and we all know where she is...(in Casey's head!!!):furious:

[JBean]

I also read another one about the "body farm". It is a very different type of experimental precedure from most. I do think their research is very much needed and could be very useful in finding bodies quicker and more reliably than cadaver dogs. Look at this quote from the article,

"With the August heat wearing on the 24-year-old's body for three days, it was already too badly decomposed to determine a cause of death."

3 days after the death of Janet March, her body was too badly decomposed to determine a cause of death. It has been over 2 months since Caylee was last seen...I'm afraid that there is not much to find anymore. I'm sorry to be negative, but I just don't believe that she is alive anymore. The biggest key is the trunk. If it wasn't Caylee's remains in the trunk, who was in there??? Nobody else is associated with the family and missing, except Zainada, and we all know where she is...(in Casey's head!!!):furious:
we had a family of 5 discovered dead in my neighborhood. They had been dead for about 2 weeks in a closed up house. Our local media did in depth reporting on the decomp process and it was not pretty. man.

What will you think if the trunk testing comes back negative for human decomp?

[janiekay]

I think the tests have come back, and they are positive. I think LE is just taking their time and making sure they have all their ducks in a row before charging her with murder, manslaughter, or accidental homicide or whatever!!!

Of course, I didn't think ole' Lenny was going to really post bond, either, so I have been wrong before:eek: if you can believe it, LOL!!!

According to the articles that I have read about the body farm, they have been able to pick up the "smell" of skeletons with their new BO detector!! BOY, I hope they don't call it that, although it is kind of funny...hehehe.

I'm at the point that I have to cheer myself up, because between this and the Gonzolas case in Lynn, MA, I feel like SCREAMING!!!!!!!:furious:

[LI_Mom]

I think the tests have come back, and they are positive. I think LE is just taking their time and making sure they have all their ducks in a row before charging her with murder, manslaughter, or accidental homicide or whatever!!!


I sure hope you're right.... the idea that this so called mother will get away with 'losing' her baby & then simply going out to enjoy her life is just too awful to wrap my head around.


There's a special place in hell for Casey Anthony..... she's a monster for what she's done with &/or to her baby AND then to her own family.

[GizzySmith]

One other thing to remember is that when a person dies there is usually a release of body function fluids. Even if a person was killed in one place and then put in a trunk I would think there would also be a residue of these body fluids. I can't remember does urine glow under black light?

[janiekay]

body fluids that react to black light include: blood, urine and semen. see below:


What Materials Glow Under a Black or Ultraviolet Light?
By Anne Marie Helmenstine, Ph.D., About.com

Body Fluids
Many body fluids contain fluorescent molecules. Forensic scientists use ultraviolet lights at crime scenes to find blood, urine, or semen (all fluorescent).

[Salem]

I want to know why George did not smell the decomp when Casey drove the car home and he got his gas cans backs. When was that? June 24th? or June 25? If there was no smell then, that means Casey later picked up Caylee, right? If something happened to Caylee on June 16th and she was in the trunk and the car smelled on July 14/15th, then the car had to smell even stronger on June 24th. So, why isn't this noted?

Or maybe this ties into the July 9th typo issue? Maybe Caylee did go to the airport with Casey and Amy on July 8th and she was fine then and everything happened after that date?

Does not make sense that the car would not smell on June 24th, but would smell on July 14/15th. Either something happened between the 2 dates or George knows more than he is saying.

Just my opinion,

Salem

[AutomaticAuttie]

More then just body fluids show up under flourescent lights.

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/f/blblacklight.htm

[Salem]

Actually, thinking more about this: If the car did not smell on June 24th and was abandoned on June 27th, it must have smelled then? Car smelled on July 15th when George brought it home. So was Caylee moved sometime between June 24th and the 27th? Perhaps on the morning of the 27th before she abandoned the car? How long would the body have had to be in the car for the smell to permeate and last until July 15th?

Salem

[Cagney]

Last summer we were having a heat wave and thought what a swell idea it would be to move during this time.
We had a friend helping us and one of the last things to get moved out of our old house was the refridgerator. We had a 10 lb pork loin in there that was vaccum sealed. The pork loin was too big to fit in the ice chest with all the other stuff so the friend sat it on the seat of my MIL's truck, then unknowingly piled clothes on top of it.
We left the stuff inside the truck for the weekend since it was "only" clothes, or so we thought.
All weekend long I kept wiffing an awful smell, and thought that there must be a dead animal under the house. I kept making my husband look for a dead cat or skunk under the house. He never found one.
End of the weekend, I got in my MIL's truck to move it and the smell hit me in the face so hard that I ralphed. The pork loin had exploded its vacuum sealed wrapper and leaked all over her seat and clothes and permeated the enitre truck.
We cleaned that truck countless number of times and used all kinds of enzyme killers and nothing worked. My MIL ended up having to trade in the truck because any time it got hot again, the smell creeped back up.

[chizap]

Actually, thinking more about this: If the car did not smell on June 24th and was abandoned on June 27th, it must have smelled then? Car smelled on July 15th when George brought it home. So was Caylee moved sometime between June 24th and the 27th? Perhaps on the morning of the 27th before she abandoned the car? How long would the body have had to be in the car for the smell to permeate and last until July 15th?

Salem
I have been thinking alot about this also-I think Caylee might have been in a plastic bag, in the trunk-maybe since Casey did not want George to go back there so badly, maybe he did see the hefty bag but did not think anything then. If he did, he might have asked and she might have lied and said it was trash and she was on her way to throw it out and forgot about it. Maybe time elapsed from him saying he wanted to "get the wedge (or whatever he referred to)" out of the car. Phone call, bathroom etc. Maybe Casey quickly ran out and moved the bag real quick to the back yard (dog hits) and then put it back OR just covered it real quick with some of her clothes or other bags and then had to finally get rid of it after that. Perhaps the bag split when she moved it and created the more permeating smell later.
She seems the type to make sure to get a bag of trash and put it in the trunk, to look like it was the truth, and CHA. Doesn't seem like she wanted the clothes and boots she left anymore- the ones that "smelled like the car"-
OR she might have picked up the bag from whatever temporary hiding place right after seeing George-he asked her where is Caylee-She might have realized she needed to do something different with the remains at this point and moved the leaking bag, not knowing it was leaking.

The two big trash bins off to the left of the Amscot place scare me.

Worse than that is the thought that the "bag" might have been in the trunk when George picked up the car and maybe he dutifully took "that trash out" of the "car that Casey forgot to". I don't think he would have non chalantly put the "trash" that had been sitting in a trunk for 2 weeks in their personal garbage and conveniently hand the bag to the detectives the next day when they ask for it...? He probably would have dropped it in a dumpster somewhere, perhaps still not realizing what it was or what was going on. There is a reason why he called Lee and said I am worried about Cindy. He knew it would only go downhill from there and the lil one was her treasure, her pride and joy.

Someone at sometime felt like the car needed arm&hammer for some reason.

[Blackwatch]

"I want to know why George did not smell the decomp when Casey drove the car home and he got his gas cans backs. When was that? June 24th? or June 25? If there was no smell then, that means Casey later picked up Caylee, right? If something happened to Caylee on June 16th and she was in the trunk and the car smelled on July 14/15th, then the car had to smell even stronger on June 24th. So, why isn't this noted?"

Does anyone remember WHY Casey was at the house on the 24th in the first place?

[bessie]

Does anyone remember WHY Casey was at the house on the 24th in the first place?

snipped

According to GA's story, she was there to pick up more clothes.


VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So as best you can tell, it happened between the 22nd and the 24th. someone broke in there.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Uh-huh.
That's when I saw my daughter. I was getting ready to go to work, and the garage door goes open and my daughter comes in. This is about 2:25, 2:30 in the afternoon on the 24th. As she comes in the house, and I said, Hey, how're you doing? And she says, Fine, Dad. I says, Well, what's going on? And she says, Oh, I'm just stopping home for about 10 minutes, get some clothes. I go to go back to work. Where's Caylee? She's with Zanny. And I said, OK, when are you guys coming home? She says, Oh, we'll be back home maybe late tonight or the next day.
I said, OK. Have you been talking to Mom? Oh, yes, I talk to Mom every day. I said, I know, but did you talk to Mom today? She sort of hesitated for a moment and she says, Yes. And she says, Oh, by the way, it's a shame what happened in the shed. And I said...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,398490,00.html?sPage=fnc/ontherecord/caylee

[JBean]

"I want to know why George did not smell the decomp when Casey drove the car home and he got his gas cans backs. When was that? June 24th? or June 25? If there was no smell then, that means Casey later picked up Caylee, right? If something happened to Caylee on June 16th and she was in the trunk and the car smelled on July 14/15th, then the car had to smell even stronger on June 24th. So, why isn't this noted?"

Does anyone remember WHY Casey was at the house on the 24th in the first place?
The bigger question is why didn't the police officers or detectives notice the smell,note it in the police report or investigate it on July 15?
At the bond hearing the detective said that after they checked out casey's untrue stories on the 15-16th, they remembered that someone mentioned something about a smell so they went to investigate on the 17th. George and Cindy handed the car over that day.
So did it smell like human decomp to the responding officers on the 15th or not?

[Salem]

So.... acccording to our timeline - there is no way that car did not smell on June 24th, when George got the tool out of the trunk.

Casey, as chizap pointed, may have moved the bag to the back yard. BUT George is ex-LE. He knows decomp smell. Even if the bag was removed, George would have smelled it. So why didn't he? Or did he? Or was Casey in the back yard all this time and after George got the gas cans and the tool, Casey put Caylee in the trunk and drove her around until the 27th when she abandoned the car.

I think the smell question on June 24th has to be answered in order to establish the timeline for Caylee. Unless it was not Caylee in that trunk.

I think the police did not investigate it right away on July 15th because they were sidetracked by taking the missing report and trying to track down the baby. I think it is "safe" to assume that the family did not dwell on the smell in the car when they were explaining that Caylee was missing. The tow company employees may have smelled it, and just didn't know what the smell was. The employees should definitely be interviewed because they had the car for two weeks before George picked it up.

Salem

[JBean]

So.... acccording to our timeline - there is no way that car did not smell on June 24th, when George got the tool out of the trunk.

Casey, as chizap pointed, may have moved the bag to the back yard. BUT George is ex-LE. He knows decomp smell. Even if the bag was removed, George would have smelled it. So why didn't he? Or did he? Or was Casey in the back yard all this time and after George got the gas cans and the tool, Casey put Caylee in the trunk and drove her around until the 27th when she abandoned the car.

I think the smell question on June 24th has to be answered in order to establish the timeline for Caylee. Unless it was not Caylee in that trunk.

I think the police did not investigate it right away on July 15th because they were sidetracked by taking the missing report and trying to track down the baby. I think it is "safe" to assume that the family did not dwell on the smell in the car when they were explaining that Caylee was missing. The tow company employees may have smelled it, and just didn't know what the smell was. The employees should definitely be interviewed because they had the car for two weeks before George picked it up.

Salem
I'm just surprised that a trained officer did not identify the smell and act on it immediately when he went into the car and retrieved the phone number on the paper. I understand a smell like that is overwhelming and unmistakeable. Maybe it wasn't that impressive after all.
Not sure how LE gets sidetracked when they investigating a missing baby and the car she was last in has a reported decomp smell?!

Doesn't add up.

[Salem]

I agree that it is strange that the LE did not smell the decomp, especially if they entered the car to get the phone number. I thought Cindy did that?

I think they got sidetracked because the officers went to the Anthony home and talked to Casey, Lee and Cindy. At that point, Casey was saying she knew who had Caylee. I think LE made it a priority to find Caylee. Hence, the driving around Orlando, going to Universal, etc. that ended up in Casey's arrest. I think once they had processed Casey, sat down to read the paperwork and work up their report, they again were reminded that there might be evidence of foul play in the car. Up to that point, I think that LE thought they would have Caylee back in a matter of hours, until they realized that "Ms. Anthony and the truth are stangers." So, I don't think it was deliberate, just a matter of priorities on LE's part.

But that brings me back to June 24th? Was the smell in the car on that day?

Did the car "air out" from June 17th to July 16th? Or did the car "air out" from June 27th to July 16th? This is a 10 day difference. To me, that's alot. Also, it goes to what George knew and when. Personally, I don't think the car smelled on June 24th, which means to me, that Casey moved Caylee sometime between June 24th and June 27th when she abandoned that "dam* car".

Salem

[capoly]

Off Case: Would someone knowledgable about cadaver dogs be able to help us out with a different case at this thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69308&page=4

Thank you.

[EastSideOfSaddness]

Sorry if this was brought up before, however, If there were maggots/flies that were in the car they can easily be tested to see what they have been feeding on. I wonder if they have been sent for evidence as well.

On the other hand though wasn't it George who took the trash out of the car?? So how do we know that the trash that George gave to LE was REALLY in the car? hummm...

[EastSideOfSaddness]

I believe that Casey ditched her car at Amscot the DAY she put Caylee in one of the retention ponds at Blanchard Park. I've been having this feeling the whole time, right when the case broke. I wish I had the money and tools to drain all the damn water there.

[pixarfreak]

From document reading:
Man at towing yard said car smelled and George agreed
But LE never in the report said they smelled anything.

[krimekat]

So.... acccording to our timeline - there is no way that car did not smell on June 24th, when George got the tool out of the trunk.

Casey, as chizap pointed, may have moved the bag to the back yard. BUT George is ex-LE. He knows decomp smell. Even if the bag was removed, George would have smelled it. So why didn't he? Or did he? Or was Casey in the back yard all this time and after George got the gas cans and the tool, Casey put Caylee in the trunk and drove her around until the 27th when she abandoned the car.

I think the smell question on June 24th has to be answered in order to establish the timeline for Caylee. Unless it was not Caylee in that trunk.

I think the police did not investigate it right away on July 15th because they were sidetracked by taking the missing report and trying to track down the baby. I think it is "safe" to assume that the family did not dwell on the smell in the car when they were explaining that Caylee was missing. The tow company employees may have smelled it, and just didn't know what the smell was. The employees should definitely be interviewed because they had the car for two weeks before George picked it up.

Salem

they did notice a smell . . . please read pdf #2 (56 of 171)

[Brini]

How long does it take a body to really start to smell?

I'm wondering if her parents smelled it when they picked the car up and LE smelled it when they searched...how long was the body in and out of the car?
Seriously, if it was in the trunk for a few hours(driving to an alternate location)...could it smell that bad and can the smell linger for weeks? Seriously, why would the smell be there 3 weeks to a month after the fact?

IN FL, in high summer, it could get ripe pretty fast. Within hours, certainly. And, yes, it cold linger for a long time. Including a month, or more, after the fact.

I'm a nurse, BTW. So is Cindy, so she damned well knows the smell wasn't from pizza.

The smell in the car might smell like a rotting animal carcass, to humans. Bu, the dogs would not be fooled.

[Boston]

I think George was lying when he told the story about the Gas Cans on the 24th. I think he was covering for Casey. He can now testify that "he was in that trunk on the 24th & there was no smell"

It's also possible that Casey removed the Body from the Backyard after George left for work on the 24th.

imo

[wings]

On the Caylee is mising MS page can anyone make this scrolling stop to see the individual pics or does someone reacall having these individual photos? I would like to see the one with Caylee wearing a white shirt and a red bead necklace. It looks like a phone and keys on the counter behind her, and I'm trying to see if it is two different phones together with the keys. If you see this photo elsewhere as a still please direct me there. Thanks

[SleuthyGal]

I too think G.A. might be lying about what smelled in the car.

[Lake Erie Princess]

I believe that Casey ditched her car at Amscot the DAY she put Caylee in one of the retention ponds at Blanchard Park. I've been having this feeling the whole time, right when the case broke. I wish I had the money and tools to drain all the damn water there.

I agree with you 100% !
From day 1 I have strongly felt that she is at the park. It was mentioned 3 x's in the 400 pg. documents.

I have passed this tip on 2 x's to LE. I think it is worthy of further exploration. She just may be at Blanchard Park. It was her favorite place, so Casey said.

[ibyoungr]

And when was the car picked up from impound?

Caylee was last seen on June 16th.
Flurry of calls on the 16th and 18th of June.
Car left at Amscot parking lot on the 27th of June. No report of smell from Amscot employees
Car towed on June 30th. Tow driver did not smell anything due to a "cold"
Cindy and George get notification that car at the Towing co. Cindy first realizes that Casey has NOT been on a trip for past 2 weeks. Tow company OWNER.. said car smelled like another car he had brought in where a man committed suicide. C, G and Tow co owner open the trunk and pull out a bag that had pizza, cleaning fluid and maggots. Tow co owner threw bag in dumpster.

I think a body would smell in 1 day (like meat in a package) if in the trunk of a car.
I do not think she "drove around" with the body in the car.
Tony evidently picked her up there when her car ran out of gas.
I would think either Tony or the Amscot employee would have smelled something coming from the car.

You might want to read the 400 pgs of the police documents to get up to speed.

[Terilee]

Why did the owner of the Towing company not contact the police about the smell. Any normal citizen would report something such as that to police. Expecailly someone who owns a company that hauls abandoned and random vehicles to their property constantly. Anyone have any thoughts about it????????

[ibyoungr]

I have wonder this as well... I would think of the tow co owner knew what a dead body smelled like (found in 400 pg docs) then he would have reported that to the police.
I also wonder why (even though he has 10 days to notify) WHY did he not notify Cindy Anthony by lets say the 5th of June.. or by the 10th of June. Why 16 days later was the Anthony's notified that the car was at the tow yard???

[Terilee]

I have wonder this as well... I would think of the tow co owner knew what a dead body smelled like (found in 400 pg docs) then he would have reported that to the police.
I also wonder why (even though he has 10 days to notify) WHY did he not notify Cindy Anthony by lets say the 5th of June.. or by the 10th of June. Why 16 days later was the Anthony's notified that the car was at the tow yard???

Was he about to gain possesion of the vehicle? If someone does not claim the car does he get to keep car and make a profit? Why did he have the title for the car already? Maybe he thought he would get to keep the car so he threw the body in the dumpster.

[JBean]

I have wonder this as well... I would think of the tow co owner knew what a dead body smelled like (found in 400 pg docs) then he would have reported that to the police.
I also wonder why (even though he has 10 days to notify) WHY did he not notify Cindy Anthony by lets say the 5th of June.. or by the 10th of June. Why 16 days later was the Anthony's notified that the car was at the tow yard???
The car was towed on June 30. When no one inquired about the car, the tow yard sent a registered letter to the Anthony's. They were not around to sign for the letter, so the letter went back to the PO and was unclaimed until the 15th. So he did notify them sooner than the 15th, they just didn't know it.

[JBean]

Was he about to gain possesion of the vehicle? If someone does not claim the car does he get to keep car and make a profit? Why did he have the title for the car already? Maybe he thought he would get to keep the car so he threw the body in the dumpster.
George had to bring the title and registration to prove ownership and get the car.

[Boston]

After reading the documents I got the impression that the Tow Truck driver towed the car & dropped it off at the Tow Yard.

He didn't smell anything because but had a cold.

When GA went to pick up the car he opened the trunk in front of the Tow Yard owner.

That's when the smell "hit" them.

I'm getting the feeling that the smell was not so over powering that it could not be smelled from 20 yards away for example but if you were IN the car or standing NEXT TO the open trunk then you would definitely smell it.

That would explain why the people at Amscot did not smell anything.

It's not like a body was IN the trunk when the car was at Amscot & the tow yard because Casey had already disposed of it.....

Also, the Tow Yard could be very large & the Anthony car could have been parked 100 yards away from the office - maybe thats why he didn't smell anything.


One last thing -Tow Yards don't go looking for the owners of the cars they tow. They expect you to find them. Most parking lots have signs that say who the towing company is for that particular lot. After Casey's car was sitting in the tow yard unclaimed for 2 weeks the owner most likely followed Florida law on contacting the owner of an unclaimed car.

All of this is just my opinion

[pregodego2]

an ex-bf of mine worked for a towing company. they ended up dealing with a car in which someone had committed suicide a few days before. the person's body had been in the car for several days...hot days. The people driving the tow truck could hardly stand it, and they were in an air-conditioned cab with the towed cars windows rolled up.

When they arrived at the police impound lot, they were instructed to take the car as far away as the building as possible. My bf said you could could hardly still hardly stand to breathe the air.

It was that bad.

so was this your ex-boyfriend who worked at the tow yard that picked up casey's car? the tow guy there said the same thing about picking up a car someone had commited suicide in and who had sat in it for days. He said the smell was bad and that casey's car reminded him of that other car. is this your ex-bf?

[ibyoungr]

The car was towed on June 30. When no one inquired about the car, the tow yard sent a registered letter to the Anthony's. They were not around to sign for the letter, so the letter went back to the PO and was unclaimed until the 15th. So he did notify them sooner than the 15th, they just didn't know it.

Thanks for clearing that up. Is this in any documentation like the 400 pgs of docs? I must have missed it.

[ibyoungr]

Was he about to gain possesion of the vehicle? If someone does not claim the car does he get to keep car and make a profit? Why did he have the title for the car already? Maybe he thought he would get to keep the car so he threw the body in the dumpster.

I do not think the body was in the car when it went to the tow yard. Evidently JBean stated that a certified letter was sent to the Anthony's and not claimed it went back to the PO and then they picked up the letter on the 15th.

[wallflower67]

Was he about to gain possesion of the vehicle? If someone does not claim the car does he get to keep car and make a profit? Why did he have the title for the car already? Maybe he thought he would get to keep the car so he threw the body in the dumpster.

Was that car really worth keeping? Isn't it about 10 years old?

[TotallyObsessed]

I have a question about decomp (human) smell. Just recently there was a dead racoon in the complex where I live. OMG that smell was horrible. It laid out in the hot sun for two days, and I could not walk my dogs within 200 feet without having that smell hit me like a ton of bricks. Someone finally removed the dead animal on the 3rd or 4th day, but the smell is still there. In the grass I guess where it lay. Not as strong, but still there.

Is the smell of a dead body like that? Worse?

[wallflower67]

so was this your ex-boyfriend who worked at the tow yard that picked up casey's car? the tow guy there said the same thing about picking up a car someone had commited suicide in and who had sat in it for days. He said the smell was bad and that casey's car reminded him of that other car. is this your ex-bf?

No, my ex-bf had nothing to do with this case. We live in Nebraska. I was just pointing out that the smell was so horrible in that particular situation because the body was so decomposed at that point. But it had only been a few days.

I'm guessing Caylee was in Casey's trunk long enough to start smelling pretty bad when you were in the car, and probably when the doors were opened. That stench stays forever. The smell probably intensified while the care was sitting there...maybe because decomp fluid was still in the trunk.

A good family frind of ours knew someone who also worked on a car lot. similar situation with a guy who comitted suicide. The towing company ended up posessing the car because no one claimed it. They stripped the whole interior down to the metal, and they still couldn't sell the car because it smelled so darn bad when you were inside with the windows rolled up.

[sonicsleuth]

Very possible....But, I see just George being involved in the disposal. The reason for his quietness?..Maybe his reason for pointing out the gas cans on June 24th...("Caylee was not in car")

I've read that some people think that george may have had something to do with the disposal but I recall seeing that he told LE that he was worried his daughter was witholding info or possibly lying? To me, that gave me the impression that he wasn't involved. jmo.

[wallflower67]

I have a question about decomp (human) smell. Just recently there was a dead racoon in the complex where I live. OMG that smell was horrible. It laid out in the hot sun for two days, and I could not walk my dogs within 200 feet without having that smell hit me like a ton of bricks. Someone finally removed the dead animal on the 3rd or 4th day, but the smell is still there. In the grass I guess where it lay. Not as strong, but still there.

Is the smell of a dead body like that? Worse?

I've never smelled human decomp (i turned down the opportunity to when my ex-bf told me about the car they towed). But I imagine it has to smell thousands of times worse...bigger body,etc.

On you-tube, there is a video where a whale beached itself and died and started rotting. Whatever group was trying to remove it apparently thought it was a good idea to use dynomite to reduce the whale's body to manageable sizes for removal. It exploded...and dead whale parts fell on people. I can't imagine the smell of THAT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvha8N3a28U

[SleuthyGal]

People have said the smell is 'even worse' than a dead (small) animal...hard to imagine and I don't even want to! I'm thinking an entire Hazmat outfit, fitted with special O2 breathing apparatus might be needed to be able to deal with such a mess as what is described in some posts about the state of vehicles. I don't know how anyone could stand it otherwise.

The only thing I've ever smelled was dead skunk, whilst driving on a trip and you know how THAT smell permeates for about 1/2 mi and more. UGH.

[McDonough]

I have a question about decomp (human) smell. Just recently there was a dead racoon in the complex where I live. OMG that smell was horrible. It laid out in the hot sun for two days, and I could not walk my dogs within 200 feet without having that smell hit me like a ton of bricks. Someone finally removed the dead animal on the 3rd or 4th day, but the smell is still there. In the grass I guess where it lay. Not as strong, but still there.

Is the smell of a dead body like that? Worse?


According to my DH who is a funeral director the smell of a dead body is much worse than that of an animal. He said that it is the most horiffic smell that he has ever encountered and that he will never forget it.

[SleuthyGal]

According to my DH who is a funeral director the smell of a dead body is much worse than that of an animal. He said that it is the most horiffic smell that he has ever encountered and that he will never forget it.

:eek:

So then how *do* pathologists and funeral home employees deal with it as it must be quite common in their everyday lives?

[impatientredhead]

People have said the smell is 'even worse' than a dead (small) animal...hard to imagine and I don't even want to! I'm thinking an entire Hazmat outfit, fitted with special O2 breathing apparatus might be needed to be able to deal with such a mess as what is described in some posts about the state of vehicles. I don't know how anyone could stand it otherwise.

The only thing I've ever smelled was dead skunk, whilst driving on a trip and you know how THAT smell permeates for about 1/2 mi and more. UGH.

We are in the Seattle area, and one of the island area farmers evidently lost a cow in the sound, she washed up on shore at the local offleash dog park this summer. It was the most rancid smell I have ever encountered. Didn't eat meat for weeks after that.

Though it was an interesting encounter with eyewitness information and its reliablity. We were told by two people that a huge sea lion had washed up, and then my favorite was a girl who told us it was some sort of sealife but with a huge horn (it was a hoof at an odd angle).

[krimekat]

Thanks for clearing that up. Is this in any documentation like the 400 pgs of docs? I must have missed it.

yes it was explained in the 400+ docs

[krimekat]

:eek:

So then how *do* pathologists and funeral home employees deal with it as it must be quite common in their everyday lives?

strong stomachs and lots of that goo under the nose . .