PDA

View Full Version : Decomp smell **REVISIT**



Pages : [1] 2 3

BrandyMarie
07-29-2008, 12:56 AM
How long does it take a body to really start to smell?

I'm wondering if her parents smelled it when they picked the car up and LE smelled it when they searched...how long was the body in and out of the car?
Seriously, if it was in the trunk for a few hours(driving to an alternate location)...could it smell that bad and can the smell linger for weeks? Seriously, why would the smell be there 3 weeks to a month after the fact?

truecrime
07-29-2008, 02:05 AM
I'm wondering if her parents smelled it when they picked the car up and LE smelled it when they searched...how long was the body in and out of the car?
Seriously, if it was in the trunk for a few hours(driving to an alternate location)...could it smell that bad and can the smell linger for weeks? Seriously, why would the smell be there 3 weeks to a month after the fact?[/quote]

Pallor mortis (Latin (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Latin): paleness of death) is a postmortem (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Postmortem) paleness which happens in those with light skin almost instantly (in the 15–120 minutes after the death) because of a lack of capillary (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Capillary) circulation throughout the body (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Body). The blood sinks down into the lower parts of the body creating the Livor mortis (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Livor_mortis).
Paleness develops so rapidly after death that it has little to no use in determining the time of death, aside from saying that it either happened less than 30 minutes ago or more, which could help if the body was found very quickly after death.
But it all depends on the conditions where the dead thing is.
if it is hot it will decompose faster and will start to smell. If it is cold it takes longer.
So if it's 80 degrees a dead body will start to smell alot sooner than one that is where the temperature is cold outside
with light skin almost instantly (in the 15–120 minutes after the death) because of a lack of capillary (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Capillary) circulation throughout the body (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Body). The blood sinks down into the lower parts of the body creating the Livor mortis (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Livor_mortis).
Livor mortis or postmortem lividity or hypostasis (Latin (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Latin): livor—bluish color, mortis—of death), one of the signs of death (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Death), is a settling of the blood (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Blood) in the lower (dependent) portion of the body, causing a purplish red discoloration of the skin:
Coroners (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Coroner) can use the presence or absence of livor mortis as a means of determining an approximate time of death. The presence of livor mortis is an indication not to start CPR (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Cardiopulmonary_resuscitation), or to stop it if it is in progress. It can also be used by forensic investigators to determine whether or not a body has been moved (for instance, if the body is found lying face down but the pooling is present on its back, investigators can determine that the body was originally positioned face up).
Livor mortis starts 20 minutes to 3 hours after death and is congealed in the capillaries in 4 to 5 hours. Maximum lividity occurs within 6-12 hours.
Decomposition (or spoilage) refers to the reduction of the body of a formerly living organism (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Organism) into simpler forms of matter. The body of a living organism begins to decompose (as part of a succession) shortly after death (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Death). Such decomposition can be categorized by two stages: In the first stage, it is limited to the production of vapors. In the second stage, liquid materials form and the flesh or plant matter begins to decompose.
Environmental influences affect decomposition. A body that is exposed to air (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Air) will decompose more quickly and exhibit more insect (http://www.websleuths.com/wiki/Insect) activity. A buried body will decompose eight times slower than a body exposed to air. This is due in part to limited insect activity and possibly lower temperatures. Likewise a body submerged in water decomposes at half the rate of an exposed body. The rate of decomposition depends on the temperature of the water. Cold water slows decomposition and warm water causes faster decomposition. The body is also shielded from insect activity as long as it is submerged.

santos1014
07-29-2008, 02:36 AM
Sadly, there was a case many years ago in a neighboring state, a small boy went missing. Everyone looked and looked, to no avail, several weeks went by, and the father began to smell something in his car. The little boy had hidden in the wheel well of the family's older model station wagon, and had become trapped there. That poor family drove that car around without knowing their precious baby was there.
It was an airtight compartment, so it did take a while for the smell to develop.

liltigress
07-29-2008, 02:39 AM
OMG I could have went a few more days not hearing that. Thanks!

Ewww... and woahhhhhhh.. that is really horrible.

Cubby
07-29-2008, 05:50 PM
Hoping someone can answer this question. I'm not even sure how to factor winds in here, but on average how far would the smell of a decomposing body linger? Especially in warm summer months. Feet, yards, blocks?

tia

AlwaysShocked
07-30-2008, 12:37 AM
I think there have been numerous cases of people living in a neighboring apartment reporting an odor and police discovering a dead body next door.

Not blocks, though.

wallflower67
07-30-2008, 01:13 AM
an ex-bf of mine worked for a towing company. they ended up dealing with a car in which someone had committed suicide a few days before. the person's body had been in the car for several days...hot days. The people driving the tow truck could hardly stand it, and they were in an air-conditioned cab with the towed cars windows rolled up.

When they arrived at the police impound lot, they were instructed to take the car as far away as the building as possible. My bf said you could could hardly still hardly stand to breathe the air.

It was that bad.

txsvicki
07-30-2008, 06:05 AM
I have no idea if it's true, but I've heard that you can't get the smell out of things like cars.

BrandyMarie
07-30-2008, 01:34 PM
So lets say her body was in the car for hours or even days....I guess my questions is, would it still smell several weeks later?

When did her parents pick up the car? Did they ever state that the smell was there when they picked it up?

LinetteH
07-30-2008, 01:40 PM
I have not smelled a dead human body but we used to go fishing by a lake and we got out of the van one day and this horrible smell hit me like a ton of bricks. I actually threw up since the smell was so bad. We had been fishing at this place just 3 days before this and had not smelled a thing--my husband went looking and there was a dog that had been shot about 1/4 mile from where we parked! I will never forget that smell...this was a full-grown lab sized dog and the smell was horrific. Needless to say we left and never returned to fish in that area again. I just can't iamgine how badly a human body would smell...

LI_Mom
07-30-2008, 03:24 PM
It's obviously a pizza.... the "Dahmer Supreme".... hold the anchovies.

my2cents
07-30-2008, 05:47 PM
Hoping someone can answer this question. I'm not even sure how to factor winds in here, but on average how far would the smell of a decomposing body linger? Especially in warm summer months. Feet, yards, blocks?

tia

I lived in an apartment complex a few years ago. It was the 2 story type townhouse deals, so the width was a bit smaller than a reg apartment would be (the front doors were closer to eachother is what I am trying to say). A guy drank himself to death 4 doors over and was found 4 days later. It stunk. It was bad. That was 4 doors down. Maybe 60 feet away or a little further. This was in wintertime in Georgia though, so I bet it didn't smell as bad as the FL heat in July.

BrandyMarie
07-30-2008, 06:20 PM
But I mean after after the body is removed from any location, how long would the smell stay?

BrandyMarie
07-30-2008, 06:20 PM
And when was the car picked up from impound?

my2cents
07-30-2008, 06:45 PM
But I mean after after the body is removed from any location, how long would the smell stay?

When they cleaned the house out, they had to throw most everything away (bed, sheets, blankets, and clothing). The dumpster where they threw the stuff stunk until it was removed. I never went in the apartment, so I don't know if there was a lingering smell in there. I think once the "stuff" that causes the smell touches something, that it is pretty much in there. My guess is that Fabreeze won't work (or much else for that matter).

my2cents
07-30-2008, 06:47 PM
BrandieMarie,

An afterthought...the apt. complex did paint and install new carpet, which was not the norm if a tenant only lived there for a short time, so I am guessing the smell may linger in the walls and carpets.

Texana
07-30-2008, 07:10 PM
If the smell is bad enough that people can know something is wrong from outside an apartment door, I think that it would most definitely linger for some time in a car. Without getting too graphic, the smell is coming from chemicals being released from the tissue decomposition--so literally, it's soaking into the surroundings.

There is no way ever it would resemble even remotely a little left over pizza--and since we carpool ballet dancers all the time, there's been more than one instance of "forgotten" food in the very back seat. It's never been anything near as bad as the descriptions of decomposition--even a milkshake left in the heat for days!

believe09
08-01-2008, 08:19 AM
Regarding this thread-I may have posted this before in my dreams, I do not know...I would think that in order for the smell of decomp and bodily fluids to be so significant, we must be talking about a body that was wet in some way...I mean if you have a body in a car in the hot sun, would it turn to shoe leather like the reporter's pizza, or would it swell etc???

I would like to point out now that the media links people are posting indicate that there are bodily fluids in the car as well, rather than a stain that "glowed under uv light."

ShouldBWorking
08-01-2008, 09:44 AM
A body that is exposed to air will decompose more quickly and exhibit more insect activity.

in the definition this jumped out at me, maggots were supposedly in the trunk, I have to admit my car was filthy when I was a teen and I never remember maggots being on any of the nasty fast food bags I would get rid of when my dad threatened to take my car away if I didn't clean it up

websurfer
08-01-2008, 10:07 AM
During the Winter a stray cat had found it's way under our porch.It obviously had gone under there to warm up some.
The dryer exhaust sends out warm air when the dryer is going.
Anyway,
as I was decending the steps near the porch, a strong awful smell was hitting my nose.
it is a smell like no other.
only way to describe it is overwhelmingly strong. intense.
I then proceeded to follow where the smell was most strong.
Under a stack of wood was the dead cat.
It was there for I do not know how long ?
So judging the length of time it took for it to begin decaying enough to smell in cold weather, I could not say.
But I do know that little cat smelled nasty under there.I was glad for the chilly days of Winter, that at least kept the flies away.
my husband had a hard time finding a good spot to lay the poor thing to rest,the ground was mostly frozen.
So, if a human smells worse than that poor dead cat, well....the car Casey had that the dog hit on, and the yard is understandable.
We had that yucky smell there for a long time...
it permiated the soil it was dead on.
So that is the only way I know the smell of death from...
And I really doubt food could do that unless it was raw meat to begin with...

websurfer
08-01-2008, 10:17 AM
Regarding this thread-I may have posted this before in my dreams, I do not know...I would think that in order for the smell of decomp and bodily fluids to be so significant, we must be talking about a body that was wet in some way...I mean if you have a body in a car in the hot sun, would it turn to shoe leather like the reporter's pizza, or would it swell etc???

I would like to point out now that the media links people are posting indicate that there are bodily fluids in the car as well, rather than a stain that "glowed under uv light."


The body "Bloats" due to the body fluids decomposing.
Of course heat speads any kind of decomposition.
Water also.
but I have watched shows dealing with decomposition.
in those shows it was pointed out that
a body depending on the surface it is laying on contributes also to the decomposition.
A few times a body was found partially in a stream and partially out of it.
The body which side or part was above the water had decomposed faster,this was due to the animal activity around the body.
Also due to the air ,the weather.
in fact the body in this example was frozen and found after a Spring thaw.
So the body was preserved pretty well.
I do look on THE DOE NETWORk also and find
details on such unidentified persons.
Some of the bodies are skeletonized, some are partially decomposed, and some are frozen and not decomposed.
Being Florida and IF...Caylee is out there in the elements...
I really would like a conclusion to this mystery...
it is hard to sleep knowing this beautiful sweet child is missing.

FLbeachdawg
08-01-2008, 10:36 AM
I have no idea if it's true, but I've heard that you can't get the smell out of things like cars.

well think about it...you can't even get nasty cigarette smell out. If you go to buy a used car you can tell IMMEDIATELY if a smoker had the car...no matter how much cleaning they do...

Georgia101957
08-01-2008, 05:40 PM
Here is a link to a video on youtube that shows the decomposition of a baby pig.

WARNING THIS IS VERY GRAPHIC

a little background about this video

"Dr. Jerry Payne's time lapse movie of the decomposition of a baby pig. The technique of time-lapse photography is employed to illustrate the rapid removal of carrion (4 days reduced to approximately 6 minutes). The film demonstrates the sequence of tissue destruction and the role of insects in the ultimate dismemberment of the pig carcass and soil movement. The pink and purple beads were added to show the intense activities of the insects in moving the carcass and soil.
Payne writes..."My study was the first "detailed" study of succession in animal decomposition and the first with the pig as the model. The significance of the pig is that it closely approximates the human body (skin, body hair, size etc.) so the data generated could be used in modern forensic science to approximate the time of human deaths. At that time it was simply not possibly (moral/ethical/legal concerns) to perform decompositon studies with human corpses, I know because I tried and was denied. Even so there were many instances where some concerned person buried my research pigs."
The pigs used in the experiment were dead when Jerry Payne picked them up from local farmers. Mama pigs (sows) often lay down on their tiny piglets and crush them. This was very common on small farms and led to the invention and deployment of farrowing pens(birthing pens) where the sow is contained and the piglets have a heated space where they are not in danger of being crushed."


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5138752215932372669&q=decomposition&ei=xX6TSJ6fIoWqrgKdh8DhBQ

my2cents
08-01-2008, 06:21 PM
Here is a link to a video on youtube that shows the decomposition of a baby pig.

WARNING THIS IS VERY GRAPHIC

a little background about this video

"Dr. Jerry Payne's time lapse movie of the decomposition of a baby pig. The technique of time-lapse photography is employed to illustrate the rapid removal of carrion (4 days reduced to approximately 6 minutes). The film demonstrates the sequence of tissue destruction and the role of insects in the ultimate dismemberment of the pig carcass and soil movement. The pink and purple beads were added to show the intense activities of the insects in moving the carcass and soil.
Payne writes..."My study was the first "detailed" study of succession in animal decomposition and the first with the pig as the model. The significance of the pig is that it closely approximates the human body (skin, body hair, size etc.) so the data generated could be used in modern forensic science to approximate the time of human deaths. At that time it was simply not possibly (moral/ethical/legal concerns) to perform decompositon studies with human corpses, I know because I tried and was denied. Even so there were many instances where some concerned person buried my research pigs."
The pigs used in the experiment were dead when Jerry Payne picked them up from local farmers. Mama pigs (sows) often lay down on their tiny piglets and crush them. This was very common on small farms and led to the invention and deployment of farrowing pens(birthing pens) where the sow is contained and the piglets have a heated space where they are not in danger of being crushed."


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5138752215932372669&q=decomposition&ei=xX6TSJ6fIoWqrgKdh8DhBQ

Oh Georgia, that was really disgusting! I think that it really does give a good starting point for determining at what point Caylee may have been put in the trunk. (There has been talk on other threads that the pizza had maggots because the body was in the trunk). Flies were all over that thing within a couple of hours, so it is likely that she was put in the trunk right away and the flies would have still been present (causing the maggots on the pizza).

Good find with that video.

If you are an animal lover, don't watch it though :(

wallflower67
08-04-2008, 11:25 PM
I've been reading up on decomp, and I have a stupid question I can't find the answer to. Is a blowfly the same thing as the flies I get in my house? Just a regular old fly? The kind that likes my dog's poo?

Vegas Bride
08-05-2008, 12:09 AM
One thing I was wondering about with the smell being so bad from the car, wouldn't the person who had towed it to be inpounded have smelled it also? I would think there would have been a call made then to the pd so it could be looked into, what if there had still been a body in the trunk?

VB

distracted
08-05-2008, 12:30 AM
One thing I was wondering about with the smell being so bad from the car, wouldn't the person who had towed it to be inpounded have smelled it also? I would think there would have been a call made then to the pd so it could be looked into, what if there had still been a body in the trunk?

I've wondered about that, too. Perhaps it wasn't in the car very long.

QuickAttack
08-05-2008, 01:45 AM
One thing I was wondering about with the smell being so bad from the car, wouldn't the person who had towed it to be inpounded have smelled it also? I would think there would have been a call made then to the pd so it could be looked into, what if there had still been a body in the trunk?

VB

Maybe not. It's not necessary for the tow truck driver to open the car--and in the case of some tow trucks, they never leave the cab of the truck. Lots of tow trucks these days have the capability to just back up, clamp on to the vehicle, and pull off.

SusieClue
08-05-2008, 11:16 AM
Question to maggot experts. Can't maggots feed on sweat too? I only ask because we had a situation in our garage where my husband keeps his bicycle trainer. Basically he rides it there for hours and drips sweat like anything...anyway at one point he found little white worms (I'm sure they were maggots) all over the fabric piece he has directly beneath where he sweats which is used to keep sweat off of the bike. It was so disgusting. well, for what that's worth, I'm fairly certain there was no decomp on that thing....

Just curious...I still believe the trunk of Caylee's car contained a body, not a pizza.

WholeLottaRosie
08-05-2008, 11:24 AM
I have a question- what would happen if soiled diapers were left in a car? Obviously, they would smell. But, left long enough could they attract maggots and make a cadaver dog hit?

Parker
08-05-2008, 01:18 PM
Hey Medusa - I think that cadaver dogs are specifically trained to recognize the distinct odor of human decomposition so no, they should not hit on the smell of feces. While still a disgusting smell for sure - it certainly doesn't mimic human decomposition.

WholeLottaRosie
08-05-2008, 01:30 PM
Hey Medusa - I think that cadaver dogs are specifically trained to recognize the distinct odor of human decomposition so no, they should not hit on the smell of feces. While still a disgusting smell for sure - it certainly doesn't mimic human decomposition.


Thanks, I just wondered. Especially if the diaper was in the car for a long time. Luckily, I have never smelled either (long term diaper) or a body.

SailorMoon
08-05-2008, 01:31 PM
I've asked this before and I'm just curious, does decomp of a human smell the same as an animal?

Shelayne
08-05-2008, 01:46 PM
Note to self: not a thread to read before lunch.

I haven't posted for a looong time, but this case is one of those that brings me back to WS!

Just a note about decomposition, a former beau of mine had a freezer in the basement where his family would freeze a half side of beef every winter. Well, one winter they went on a long vacation, and the freezer died while they were gone. Apparently, it was the most horrible smell they ever encountered, and they only opened the freezer once. They disposed of it, but also had to replace the carpet (putrid water had leaked out)and repaint to get rid of the smell that had permeated from that rotten meat. Keep in mind, this was meat that was butchered and packaged for them, not a body that slowly decomposed, and they couldn't stand it.

Just from his description of that event (obviously it has stayed with me for many years), I cannot even imagine, nor do I ever want to experience, the smell of human remains.

**shudder**

zelmajane
08-05-2008, 02:34 PM
http://mythbustersresults.com/episode7

I watched an episode of Mythbusters on this before.

The smell doesn't go away.

songline
08-05-2008, 03:04 PM
one thing i was wondering about with the smell being so bad from the car, wouldn't the person who had towed it to be inpounded have smelled it also? I would think there would have been a call made then to the pd so it could be looked into, what if there had still been a body in the trunk?

Vb

good point!!!

wallflower67
08-05-2008, 07:43 PM
I read up on cadaver dogs. Human decomp smells differernt from animal decomp to the dogs. I don't know how it would smell to us humans compared to freezer full of rotton meat.

does anyone have the experience of smelling both human and large animal decomp?

Nuisanceposter
08-05-2008, 08:02 PM
Hi, all. I'm not a maggot expert, but I do know that maggots will only eat rotten and decomposing flesh. Specially-raised sterile maggots are used to clean wounds because they will only devour any decomposing flesh and will not touch the live, healthy tissue at all.

So what was on that pizza? Was it a sausage and hamburger pizza or something like that? Maggots aren't going to infest a plain cheese pizza.

And cadaver dogs are specifically trained to recognize the difference between decomposing human remains and anything else, including animal remains. Humans may not be able to smell the difference, but the dogs can, and they're offered food and decomposing animals in training so they can be corrected if they think it's the same as human remains. That's how they learn to discern the difference and understand that their handlers want to be told when they smell human remains and only human remains.

Those dogs didn't smell a pizza, Cindy. They didn't smell a dead animal. They smelled a dead human. If it wasn't Caylee, then you need to figure out what other dead body was in that car, cause the dogs say one was there.

I don't get it...is the threat against Caylee and telling where she is magically going to be eradicated this Saturday when Casey's saying she's coming home, or why does Caylee have to wait til then to come home? To make sure it's an extra-super-special birthday?

ThoughtFox
08-05-2008, 08:50 PM
This is so similar to Kimmer's thread, maybe these should be merged???

People are also talking about maggots and the odor of decomposition, and I don't really want to post both places.

xcmmm
08-05-2008, 09:14 PM
Not sure how/if this would compare to a human but I thought I'd throw it out there. My son once picked up a dead cat from the road and put it in the trunk to take it to the local woods to bury. It was August in Georgia and my son swore he smelled that dead cat in his trunk for about a week afterward.

Mohabi
08-05-2008, 09:45 PM
Here you go, all about maggots:

http://www.ucihs.uci.edu/som/pathology/sherman/faq2.htm#4

JBean
08-11-2008, 01:11 AM
bumpity bump

Sunshinegirl
08-11-2008, 01:19 AM
I found this on another site... I guess this description gives you an idea of the smell of a decomposing body (which I highly doubt could ever be mistaken with PIZZA)

if the homicide investigator smelled "decomposition", there was a dead body somewhere around the vicinity. I hate to be so graphic but, until you smell a cadaver, you haven't smelled anything bad. Imagine the smell of a hot tar pot, combined with the smell of a 5 gallon bucket full of rotten eggs, combined with a weeks worth of poopie diapers, combined with about 100 pounds of rotten fish, combined with the smell of a dead cow. Once you smell that smell, you never forget it and you will recognize it no matter where or when you smell it next. It's a very unique - and very bad -odor.

MistyM
08-11-2008, 01:27 AM
*mental note* try not to decompose.

SillyNilly
08-11-2008, 01:31 AM
A body that is exposed to air will decompose more quickly and exhibit more insect activity.

in the definition this jumped out at me, maggots were supposedly in the trunk, I have to admit my car was filthy when I was a teen and I never remember maggots being on any of the nasty fast food bags I would get rid of when my dad threatened to take my car away if I didn't clean it up

If the smell was that bad and there were actually maggots in the trunk of that car then that would lead one to believe there must have been an adequate amount of tissue to test for DNA, etc. That will not help Casey.

L L & S
08-11-2008, 01:35 AM
*mental note* try not to decompose.lol!!

tiffertots
08-11-2008, 01:38 AM
earlier I thought that Caylee might have still been in the trunk when the car was recovered, then, possibly reburied leading George and Cindy to be in on it...the mythbusters website claims that the pig corpse had actually caused condensation and deterioration of the upholstery. If her body was in the car when it was picked up wouldn't that have been clearly visable??

SelmaClue
08-11-2008, 01:43 AM
A body that is exposed to air will decompose more quickly and exhibit more insect activity.

in the definition this jumped out at me, maggots were supposedly in the trunk, I have to admit my car was filthy when I was a teen and I never remember maggots being on any of the nasty fast food bags I would get rid of when my dad threatened to take my car away if I didn't clean it up

Hiya ShouldB,

I'm with you on this one. The back seat of my first jalopy had so many Jack In The Box, White Castle and A&W bags with food in them, I'd have to pull up to a dumpster every several months. Oh, to be young again and still be able to eat that bad food.
:eek:
At most, there was a slight aroma now and again (in summer), but maggots? No way.

Hey, didn't some media people do the pizza test? Or is that still not completed? Has anyone heard about the results or when they are due???

Selma

SelmaClue
08-11-2008, 01:50 AM
Oh, I guess I have to post this:

If the pizza in question (however imaginary it might be) was not a cooked pizza, but a fresh or frozen pizza purchased at a grocery store, that would explain why it wasn't immediately removed from the trunk and consumed as a meal. It could have been forgotten about in the trunk and if it had uncooked meat on it, maggots would appear.

What do you think? Is it just getting to be too late in the evening for me to be posting?
:waitasec:

Selma

JBean
08-11-2008, 01:58 AM
Oh, I guess I have to post this:

If the pizza in question (however imaginary it might be) was not a cooked pizza, but a fresh or frozen pizza purchased at a grocery store, that would explain why it wasn't immediately removed from the trunk and consumed as a meal. It could have been forgotten about in the trunk and if it had uncooked meat on it, maggots would appear.

What do you think? Is it just getting to be too late in the evening for me to be posting?
:waitasec:

Selmanever too late to post!

DO we know what kind of pizza it was?

SelmaClue
08-11-2008, 02:10 AM
never too late to post!

DO we know what kind of pizza it was?

Okay! And no, we don't know, darn it. But if this is Cindy's story, we want DETAILS! Don't we?

SuziQ
08-11-2008, 02:26 AM
Okay! And no, we don't know, darn it. But if this is Cindy's story, we want DETAILS! Don't we?

I volunteer you to do the uncooked pizza test. :)

SelmaClue
08-11-2008, 02:33 AM
I volunteer you to do the uncooked pizza test. :)

Okay. May I borrow your car?
:crazy:

SuziQ
08-11-2008, 03:00 AM
Okay. May I borrow your car?
:crazy:

Ummmm, NO! lol

Amberjack
08-11-2008, 10:24 AM
earlier I thought that Caylee might have still been in the trunk when the car was recovered, then, possibly reburied leading George and Cindy to be in on it...the mythbusters website claims that the pig corpse had actually caused condensation and deterioration of the upholstery. If her body was in the car when it was picked up wouldn't that have been clearly visable??

Very possible....But, I see just George being involved in the disposal. The reason for his quietness?..Maybe his reason for pointing out the gas cans on June 24th...("Caylee was not in car")

SusieClue
08-11-2008, 10:33 AM
never too late to post!

DO we know what kind of pizza it was?

The kind you buy and put in your trunk when you are trying to cover up a bad odor....let's market it and call it:

Pizza Febreeze!:doughboy:

"put one in your trunk and it will no longer smell like a skunk"
:rolleyes:

it's just a thot, people!

Prayin_4_Grace
08-11-2008, 10:44 AM
I just heard Mark F tell Megan on Fox News that he had seen Caseys phone records via Lee and that a pizza was ordered from her phone after June 16. He didnt say from where and what the exact date was, but sometime right after the 16th.

SelmaClue
08-11-2008, 11:51 AM
I just heard Mark F tell Megan on Fox News that he had seen Caseys phone records via Lee and that a pizza was ordered from her phone after June 16. He didnt say from where and what the exact date was, but sometime right after the 16th.

I'd like to hear the story. If you find a video link, would you post it please? So much for my theory about uncooked pizza. Drat. And SusieQ won't let me borrow her car. What a morning.
S

SusieClue
08-11-2008, 11:52 AM
I just heard Mark F tell Megan on Fox News that he had seen Caseys phone records via Lee and that a pizza was ordered from her phone after June 16. He didnt say from where and what the exact date was, but sometime right after the 16th.

I'm sure this has been gone over before, but to clarify, was the pizza uneaten when it was discovered?

SelmaClue
08-11-2008, 11:56 AM
earlier I thought that Caylee might have still been in the trunk when the car was recovered, then, possibly reburied leading George and Cindy to be in on it...the mythbusters website claims that the pig corpse had actually caused condensation and deterioration of the upholstery. If her body was in the car when it was picked up wouldn't that have been clearly visable??

Hi Tiffer,
I also read the MythBusters site. :puke:

Here's my question regarding the decomp scent: If that car stunk of decomp and if cadaver dogs hit on it also, why isn't that enough to officially call Casey Anthony a "suspect" instead of only a POI?
S

Chezhire
08-11-2008, 11:56 AM
Very possible....But, I see just George being involved in the disposal. The reason for his quietness?..Maybe his reason for pointing out the gas cans on June 24th...("Caylee was not in car")

Amberjack - I also think this presently seems the most plausible reason for the gas cans story.

SelmaClue
08-11-2008, 11:59 AM
I'm sure this has been gone over before, but to clarify, was the pizza uneaten when it was discovered?

Oh boy, we are SusieClue and SelmaClue. If I had seen your screen name before I chose mine, I'd have made up a different one. Apologies!

Pizza: Are you asking if it's been reported that the alleged pizza was partially eaten?

S

Chezhire
08-11-2008, 11:59 AM
I just heard Mark F tell Megan on Fox News that he had seen Caseys phone records via Lee and that a pizza was ordered from her phone after June 16. He didnt say from where and what the exact date was, but sometime right after the 16th.

Does anyone really believe that Lee would share copies of phone records with anyone, even in an effort to corroborate Cindy's PIZZA story? seems he'd know better than to do that without first talking to Casey's 3 lawyers...whom one would expect would never agree with/bless the sharing of anything with MF...???

SelmaClue
08-11-2008, 12:04 PM
Does anyone really believe that Lee would share copies of phone records with anyone, even in an effort to corroborate Cindy's PIZZA story? seems he'd know better than to do that without first talking to Casey's 3 lawyers...whom one would expect would never agree with/bless the sharing of anything with MF...???

Yes, I believe Lee would share this info publicly if it corroborates Cindy's pizza story. I believe he'd want a bit of info out here that shows people there's something that hasn't been a lie, if he could.
S

SusieClue
08-11-2008, 12:11 PM
Oh boy, we are SusieClue and SelmaClue. If I had seen your screen name before I chose mine, I'd have made up a different one. Apologies!

Pizza: Are you asking if it's been reported that the alleged pizza was partially eaten?

S

Oh I could care less...the more clues the better! :crazy:
Yes, I was wondering if the pizza was eaten or just a full pizza.
thanks.

dee10134
08-11-2008, 01:13 PM
I think their story of the pizza being the cause of the cadaver dog hit and the stench is bologna. There is NO way a rotten pizza would make a cadaver dog hit.

A decomposing body releases very distinct chemicals as it breaks down, namely putriscene and cadeverine, which as far as I know would not be created during the break down of a rotten pizza! They have created synthetic putriscene and cadaverine, which is used to train the cadaver dogs. If rotten pizza and decomposing bodies smell the same to dogs, wouldn't it just be cheaper to use rotten pizza to train the dogs than to create synthetic putriscene and cadaverine??

So if the pizza isn't the cause of the putriscene and/or cadaverine smell, then we all know what was the cause and it had to have been a human body.

Thinking_Out_Loud
08-11-2008, 03:22 PM
Hello All,

This is my first time posting at Websleuths. I have been lurking for a while now, and was just accepted into your community. Out of all the different forums that discuss the Caylee Marie Anthony case, I think you all here at websleuths' are the most informed and informative.

I have some thoughts on the body decomposition and cadaver dog theory that I would like to throw out there.

There are many things that I have thought about this case. Apparently, when they train dogs, they train them with human hair, blood, bones, nails, and stuff like that. Sometimes, they do not have a human body to train them with, so they will use a bottle of chemicals that have been produced to smell like the chemicals produced by a decomposing human body.

I, also, noticed that people have been saying that a cadaver dog can distinguish between a human decomposing body and an animal. This is true, with the exception of pigs. Pigs are more chemically related to humans than any other animal. I remembered this from Biology in college. It was weird to me then, and its still weird to me now. At any rate, when a pig decomposes or lives, they still remain chemically linked to humans. Thus, dog trainers will often use pig remains instead of human remains. It is just easier to get their hands on a dead pig sometimes. After thinking about this, I googled it and found this amazing article about a dog named Shep and his trainer that would go looking for bodies. I would highly recommend reading it. It talks about the accuracy of the dogs.

I think it is possible that a dog might hit on a spot where pizza is if the pizza contains canadian bacon, sausage, or pepperoni. I tried to find out if the chemical composition would change after the meat was cured and seasoned, but I do not know at this point.

Also, if she had used feminine hygeine products, or hair clippings in her trunk, then the dog would hit on it.

As far as the odor, I would think that a nurse would be able to distinguish between the scents of death and old pizza. I don't know, there might be some strange smell manufactured by the maggots when the defacate pork. That might smell to high heaven.

In addition, I just wanted to note that I have had maggots on things that were not dead. A few weeks ago, I found all these maggots underneath my cat's water bowl. It was disgusting and I don't know what they were feeding on. There was nothing there except a piece of newspaper.

Thanks for your time. I am looking forward to your thoughts.

P.S. here's the link to that site I was talking about.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-csi-death-dogs-sniffing-out-the-truth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html

Twoapennything
08-13-2008, 08:15 PM
Hello everyone -- first post here from a long time lurker.

When I was ten, our family took a two week vacation. Probably during the first couple of days we were gone, our housesitter died in our home. When we came home, the smell of decomposition was unbelievable. The smell of a decomposing human body is unique and distinctive and like nothing else.

We had to move out of the house for a month while disaster services completed a full restoration, which included carpet and drywall replacement and disinfection with extremely strong, very specific chemicals. Everything in the house had to be cleaned; we lost a lot of our belongings, as the smell of death permeated objects that could not be cleaned or salvaged. To say it was vile is an understatement. It was an extremely traumatic event for our family.

The reason I'm telling this story is that even years later, occasionally we would catch a feint whiff of decomposition. It obviously wasn't as strong or new as when the incident first happened, but it was, like I said, a very distinctive smell. It finally stopped, but it just goes to show that the gases and chemicals that a decomposing body produces is just insane!

If a body were left in a car long enough to decompose to the point of smelling, I personally would have no doubt that the smell could linger in the car long after the body itself was removed. Yes, it's that strong and permeating!

SelmaClue
08-13-2008, 08:47 PM
Hello everyone -- first post here from a long time lurker.

When I was ten, our family took a two week vacation. Probably during the first couple of days we were gone, our housesitter died in our home.

:eek::eek::eek:

Hi Twoapennything! Thanks for your icky story! :eek::eek::eek:
I've never smelled decomp (thankfully) so I think you drove the point home for me!

Welcome aboard!
S

MarleneM
08-13-2008, 09:22 PM
I think it is possible that a dog might hit on a spot where pizza is if the pizza contains canadian bacon, sausage, or pepperoni.

As far as the odor...there might be some strange smell manufactured by the maggots when the defacate pork. That might smell to high heaven.


Before I lose sight of facts I'm familiar with through personal experience by getting caught up in what-if's like these, let me testify here that I know what a pepperoni, ham, beef, and cheese pizza smells like after being left to harden and decompose in a car, and (at the risk of sounding disgusting) it's nowhere near the smell of putrid death.

Think about the days in your life you've come across a piece of cooked pizza in the trash. It's hard as a rock because of the stale crust and hardened cheese. Even an uncooked pizza is put together with precooked meat that doesn't turn rancid because most of it is cured. And anyone who bakes knows what dough smells like after it goes bad. Again, nothing like the distinct scent of death that we all can identify when we smell a dead animal.

Speaking only to Cindy Anthony's request for us to conduct "the Pizza Experiment": It's just insulting to the life experiences of any typical adult (certainly a domestic mother) that rotten food can be mistaken for a decomposing body. Like none of us have ever smelled rotten food before...

impatientredhead
08-13-2008, 10:11 PM
I think their story of the pizza being the cause of the cadaver dog hit and the stench is bologna. There is NO way a rotten pizza would make a cadaver dog hit.

A decomposing body releases very distinct chemicals as it breaks down, namely putriscene and cadeverine, which as far as I know would not be created during the break down of a rotten pizza! They have created synthetic putriscene and cadaverine, which is used to train the cadaver dogs. If rotten pizza and decomposing bodies smell the same to dogs, wouldn't it just be cheaper to use rotten pizza to train the dogs than to create synthetic putriscene and cadaverine??

So if the pizza isn't the cause of the putriscene and/or cadaverine smell, then we all know what was the cause and it had to have been a human body.

Just clarifying on this, it is not actually the cadaverine or putriscene that the dogs are hitting on. All animals decomposing produce these chemicals. They can also exisit in much smaller quantities in live animals/people.

http://boards.webmd.com/webx?THDX@@.59ac841d!thdchild=.59ac841d A couple of examples, but it is also present in septic patients, and many other situations.

When they first started using cadaver dogs they were not sure what they smelling that was different from other animals, but they have identified over 400 chemicals released by a decaying body.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decomposition#Animal_decomposition- in animal decomposition section click on putrification.

Amberjack
08-13-2008, 10:20 PM
Amberjack - I also think this presently seems the most plausible reason for the gas cans story.

Is George covering for Casey by saying he didn't "see" Caylee in the trunk?
The gas cans would have covered for a bundled Caylee
He says CASEY opened the trunk
Who took out the wedge? I think Casey......

Thinking_Out_Loud
08-14-2008, 10:10 AM
Before I lose sight of facts I'm familiar with through personal experience by getting caught up in what-if's like these, let me testify here that I know what a pepperoni, ham, beef, and cheese pizza smells like after being left to harden and decompose in a car, and (at the risk of sounding disgusting) it's nowhere near the smell of putrid death.

Think about the days in your life you've come across a piece of cooked pizza in the trash. It's hard as a rock because of the stale crust and hardened cheese. Even an uncooked pizza is put together with precooked meat that doesn't turn rancid because most of it is cured. And anyone who bakes knows what dough smells like after it goes bad. Again, nothing like the distinct scent of death that we all can identify when we smell a dead animal.

Speaking only to Cindy Anthony's request for us to conduct "the Pizza Experiment": It's just insulting to the life experiences of any typical adult (certainly a domestic mother) that rotten food can be mistaken for a decomposing body. Like none of us have ever smelled rotten food before...

I just want to clarify that I do not think that I said that the smell was pizza. I said that a cadaver dog might detect the pork because they are trained on decomposing pigs. Actually, if we were talking hypothetically I would have blamed the smell on an unknown source. Some other dead thing that might have been in the car at some point. I have friends that put dead things in their other friends' cars and apartments as pranks. Apparently, they think it is funny when someone gets stinked out and cannot find it because it is in an air conditioner vent or something. It is what some young people do. I am a college student at UCF in Orlando. I live like a college student too, that is to say that I like to take out my trash about once a month. It stinks sometimes but does not smell like anything died. We also have a huge dumpster that smells up the whole neighborhood because it sits out there filled with garbage for about one week with the hot florida sun beating down on it. Again, doesn't smell like anything died. It is just rancid, and that is all. I have had maggots on things in my home too. The media has had some "experts" say that maggots will ONLY get on decaying flesh. Well, from personal experience that is not true. I have had them get on newspaper before.

For many weeks, I thought this girl had murdered her child because of the smell in the car, and the cadaver dogs' alerts; however, after extensive research, I cannot conclude that at all. I think that the lab results will let us know and that is that. Speculation does not always get us anywhere.

dee10134
08-14-2008, 10:52 AM
I just want to clarify that I do not think that I said that the smell was pizza. I said that a cadaver dog might detect the pork because they are trained on decomposing pigs. Actually, if we were talking hypothetically I would have blamed the smell on an unknown source. Some other dead thing that might have been in the car at some point.

[snip]

For many weeks, I thought this girl had murdered her child because of the smell in the car, and the cadaver dogs' alerts; however, after extensive research, I cannot conclude that at all. I think that the lab results will let us know and that is that. Speculation does not always get us anywhere.

I don't think the smell was pizza either. As far as I understand, most pepperoni has been cured by salt and/or smoking the meat. Sausage is generally placed on the pizza raw, but cooked in the oven.

Cured and cooked meat does not decompose at the same rate or the same way that fresh pig flesh does. The sausage and pepperoni on a pizza would have been cooked, which I believe is an entirely different type of decomposition; more of a rancid, sour smell than a "dead body smell."

You're completely right about the maggots. Just because there were maggots, doesn't necessarily mean there was a body there. I know for a fact that maggots will be anywhere there is a food source and moisture, not necessarily on a meat source either.

With that said, I have no doubts in my mind that the cadaver dogs hit on the smell of HUMAN decomposition in Casey Anthony's trunk. The dogs are not trained to hit on other dead animals (besides pigs, maybe, but that all depends on the way the dog was trained). I guess the DNA test will be key to this aspect of the investigation.

CASuzk
08-14-2008, 10:53 AM
I was thinking about the car last night also and then I remembered something, my good friend J's car.
I love J, she's funny and generous. We make an odd pair, she is 4'11", I'm 5'11", she is Asian, I'm blond with freckles. She can eat two big Macs, biggie fries, giant glup and still weigh 89 lbs; me, I can gain weight on a kid's meal. We have a great time together but I can't stand riding in her van! She mucks it out maybe twice a year; yes, mucks

She has four kids and when she was driving them all around, the car was a health hazard. Half eaten hamburgers spilled soda, pizza boxes with half a pizza, dirty underwear. balled up socks, used tissues and napkins, fruit, you name it, it was there. I have helped her take out two full trash bags of stuff that needed to be thrown away and there was sill at least two loads of laundry in the car.
The point of this is that it did smell in her car, I would ride like a dog, with my head out the window. But...it never smelled like a dead but once living thing. We live in a humid area and she parked the car in the sun. One time, I saw her same model car in a parking lot and to be sure that it was her car, I smelled the car and yes, the odor was there even with the windows up and car locked! It smelled like a trash can but not a dead body.

Thinking_Out_Loud
08-14-2008, 12:46 PM
Does anyone hear know what a dead human body smells like? If so, could you please ellaborate? If you could, please compare it to another smell. This way some of us could know for this case.

I was walking my dog around my apartment complex yesterday morning, and I smelled this horrible rotten scent. I almost vomited, and my dog was smelling around the place like crazy. She wanted to go and investigate it, but I pulled her away. The smell was coming from around this one bottom floor apartment where its tenant had just opened and closed her sliding door. I thought maybe something could have died outside, but when I walked my dog back over there two hours later, the smell was gone. I think maybe it came from inside the apartment. That tenant must be a horrible caretaker if her apartment had such a putrid smell! After reading about how indescribable a dead body stinks, I thought maybe she has a dead body in there!

impatientredhead
08-14-2008, 12:58 PM
I just want to clarify that I do not think that I said that the smell was pizza. I said that a cadaver dog might detect the pork because they are trained on decomposing pigs. Actually, if we were talking hypothetically I would have blamed the smell on an unknown source. Some other dead thing that might have been in the car at some point. I have friends that put dead things in their other friends' cars and apartments as pranks. Apparently, they think it is funny when someone gets stinked out and cannot find it because it is in an air conditioner vent or something. It is what some young people do. I am a college student at UCF in Orlando. I live like a college student too, that is to say that I like to take out my trash about once a month. It stinks sometimes but does not smell like anything died. We also have a huge dumpster that smells up the whole neighborhood because it sits out there filled with garbage for about one week with the hot florida sun beating down on it. Again, doesn't smell like anything died. It is just rancid, and that is all. I have had maggots on things in my home too. The media has had some "experts" say that maggots will ONLY get on decaying flesh. Well, from personal experience that is not true. I have had them get on newspaper before.

For many weeks, I thought this girl had murdered her child because of the smell in the car, and the cadaver dogs' alerts; however, after extensive research, I cannot conclude that at all. I think that the lab results will let us know and that is that. Speculation does not always get us anywhere.


I didn't think or mean to imply that you thought it was pizza. I just used yours as a jumping off point, but probably should have posted without a quote.

I do believe solidly in the dogs and their accuracy. I was just commenting on the chemicals they are indicating for.

wallflower67
08-14-2008, 01:06 PM
Hello everyone -- first post here from a long time lurker.

When I was ten, our family took a two week vacation. Probably during the first couple of days we were gone, our housesitter died in our home. When we came home, the smell of decomposition was unbelievable. The smell of a decomposing human body is unique and distinctive and like nothing else.

We had to move out of the house for a month while disaster services completed a full restoration, which included carpet and drywall replacement and disinfection with extremely strong, very specific chemicals. Everything in the house had to be cleaned; we lost a lot of our belongings, as the smell of death permeated objects that could not be cleaned or salvaged. To say it was vile is an understatement. It was an extremely traumatic event for our family.

The reason I'm telling this story is that even years later, occasionally we would catch a feint whiff of decomposition. It obviously wasn't as strong or new as when the incident first happened, but it was, like I said, a very distinctive smell. It finally stopped, but it just goes to show that the gases and chemicals that a decomposing body produces is just insane!

If a body were left in a car long enough to decompose to the point of smelling, I personally would have no doubt that the smell could linger in the car long after the body itself was removed. Yes, it's that strong and permeating!

How horrible for you and your family! I would be freaked to move back into that house!

I can't remember if I posted this on this thread or not (and I'm too lazy to read back a few pages), but my high school bf and his dad worked for a towing company. They towed a car that a man had committed suicide in. It was summer and he had been in the car for 2 or 3 days. The people in the tow truck could smell it even with their windows up and the car's windows up. They had to put that car as far back in the impound lot as possible...it smelled that bad as soon as you got on the lot.

I, personally, did not choose to go check out the smell. I just know they could smell that thing hundreds of feet away.

CASuzk
08-14-2008, 01:07 PM
Dead things smell, even my garage stunk from one small dead mouse. I don't even know how to describe it but you don't forget that smell, it's more stinky and in your mouth and nose than things like dog poop.
If the smell at the neighbor's house went away, she was probably cooking something. Menudo, Haggis, Chitin's, there are just some foods that don't smell good cooking.

One local store sells sheep heads around Easter, no I don't know why; but there they are, no skin but with the eyeballs and teeth in the meat department. Freaky as all get out. Can't imagine what that smells like cooking.

my2cents
08-14-2008, 03:10 PM
Does anyone hear know what a dead human body smells like? If so, could you please ellaborate? If you could, please compare it to another smell. This way some of us could know for this case.


When I was in college, I lived in a complex in one of those 2 story type condos. They are narrow so the front doors are closer to each other than in a normal complex. They guy 4 doors down died in his apartment and was there 4 days before he was found. I could smell it when I walked outside my front door (maybe 60 feet down from his). It was TERRIBLE. There is no other smell that it comes close to comparing too. You just KNOW what it is and you KNOW its dead.

The family took all his stuff and threw it away because the smell was embedded in everything. The complex went in had a repair truck out there for a week doing painting and sheet-rock and carpet. This was not the norm at this complex, so the smell must have been embedded.

The only thing that I can think of that is even a fraction of the stench is a dead animal. If you have animals that have ever brought you a dead animal that they found (mine are notorious for doing this!) then imagine that smell multiplied by 1,000. I can't describe it, but it embeds in your nostrils and in your throat and it sticks there for a while.

It's very distinct. Once you smell it, you KNOW what it is.

Thinking_Out_Loud
08-14-2008, 04:11 PM
When I was in college, I lived in a complex in one of those 2 story type condos. They are narrow so the front doors are closer to each other than in a normal complex. They guy 4 doors down died in his apartment and was there 4 days before he was found. I could smell it when I walked outside my front door (maybe 60 feet down from his). It was TERRIBLE. There is no other smell that it comes close to comparing too. You just KNOW what it is and you KNOW its dead.

The family took all his stuff and threw it away because the smell was embedded in everything. The complex went in had a repair truck out there for a week doing painting and sheet-rock and carpet. This was not the norm at this complex, so the smell must have been embedded.

The only thing that I can think of that is even a fraction of the stench is a dead animal. If you have animals that have ever brought you a dead animal that they found (mine are notorious for doing this!) then imagine that smell multiplied by 1,000. I can't describe it, but it embeds in your nostrils and in your throat and it sticks there for a while.

It's very distinct. Once you smell it, you KNOW what it is.

Ew..

I used to live in a house, and my neighbor died. He had been in there a few days before anyone found him, and I did not smell anything. Your description makes me realize how fortunate I was not to have smelled that!

Someone on another forum had compared the smell to a rancid steak. Another compared the smell to an abandoned fish market. These, of course, are two distinct smells. It confused me. I have smelled dead animals before and I could definitely tell that is not pizza; however, a dead squirrel smells like a dead cat, or a dead dog, or a dead chicken, or a dead raccoon. It seems to me that something could have crawled up under the car and died.

I wish we knew what those test results were on the car...

krimekat
08-14-2008, 04:59 PM
So, the car was retrieved from tow lot by George Anthony on 15 Jul while Cindy picks up Casey from TonEs per Amy, makes 911 #1 call & 911 #2 call, returns home, smells the car & makes call #3?

wallflower67
08-14-2008, 05:07 PM
Ew..

I used to live in a house, and my neighbor died. He had been in there a few days before anyone found him, and I did not smell anything. Your description makes me realize how fortunate I was not to have smelled that!

Someone on another forum had compared the smell to a rancid steak. Another compared the smell to an abandoned fish market. These, of course, are two distinct smells. It confused me. I have smelled dead animals before and I could definitely tell that is not pizza; however, a dead squirrel smells like a dead cat, or a dead dog, or a dead chicken, or a dead raccoon. It seems to me that something could have crawled up under the car and died.

I wish we knew what those test results were on the car...

From what I understand, the cadavar dogs can distinguish between other animals, and human decomp. Except someone said pigs are close enough. I can't imagine pizza making as big of a stink as even a dead mouse. I've had both old half-eaten burgers (yes, for over a week, I know, it's gross!) and dead mice. The mouse was quite noticeable. The burgers just dried up and didn't smell much at all. Maybe because they were cooked?

I know if I throw fresh meat out that has expired, I don't take it out of the fridge and put it in the trash until the day the trash goes out. Or my garage will stink to high Heaven. But other food...yeah, it gets smelly, but just annoyingly so, not can't stand to breathe.

Chezhire
08-14-2008, 05:08 PM
Is George covering for Casey by saying he didn't "see" Caylee in the trunk?
The gas cans would have covered for a bundled Caylee
He says CASEY opened the trunk
Who took out the wedge? I think Casey......

bet they're waiting to see what the trunk results are going to be before lockign in to who exactly saw what and when, but it sets it up as a potential defense IF the testing prooves inconclusive...
thoughts?

Chezhire
08-14-2008, 05:12 PM
How horrible for you and your family! I would be freaked to move back into that house!

I can't remember if I posted this on this thread or not (and I'm too lazy to read back a few pages), but my high school bf and his dad worked for a towing company. They towed a car that a man had committed suicide in. It was summer and he had been in the car for 2 or 3 days. The people in the tow truck could smell it even with their windows up and the car's windows up. They had to put that car as far back in the impound lot as possible...it smelled that bad as soon as you got on the lot.

I, personally, did not choose to go check out the smell. I just know they could smell that thing hundreds of feet away.

some WSers have pondered the "what if" of Caylee (I hope it's not true) being deceased and in the truck of the car when George picked it up from the impound, but after reading your comments, I'd be willing to bet that in the July FL heat, ppl at Amscot AND the towing company wold have alerted LE immediately to that kind of smell... so I don't think there was anyone's body in that trunk when George picked it up from the impound/tow lot...

headndownstream
08-14-2008, 05:12 PM
Hello All,

This is my first time posting at Websleuths. I have been lurking for a while now, and was just accepted into your community. Out of all the different forums that discuss the Caylee Marie Anthony case, I think you all here at websleuths' are the most informed and informative.

I have some thoughts on the body decomposition and cadaver dog theory that I would like to throw out there.

There are many things that I have thought about this case. Apparently, when they train dogs, they train them with human hair, blood, bones, nails, and stuff like that. Sometimes, they do not have a human body to train them with, so they will use a bottle of chemicals that have been produced to smell like the chemicals produced by a decomposing human body.

I, also, noticed that people have been saying that a cadaver dog can distinguish between a human decomposing body and an animal. This is true, with the exception of pigs. Pigs are more chemically related to humans than any other animal. I remembered this from Biology in college. It was weird to me then, and its still weird to me now. At any rate, when a pig decomposes or lives, they still remain chemically linked to humans. Thus, dog trainers will often use pig remains instead of human remains. It is just easier to get their hands on a dead pig sometimes. After thinking about this, I googled it and found this amazing article about a dog named Shep and his trainer that would go looking for bodies. I would highly recommend reading it. It talks about the accuracy of the dogs.

I think it is possible that a dog might hit on a spot where pizza is if the pizza contains canadian bacon, sausage, or pepperoni. I tried to find out if the chemical composition would change after the meat was cured and seasoned, but I do not know at this point.

Also, if she had used feminine hygeine products, or hair clippings in her trunk, then the dog would hit on it.

As far as the odor, I would think that a nurse would be able to distinguish between the scents of death and old pizza. I don't know, there might be some strange smell manufactured by the maggots when the defacate pork. That might smell to high heaven.

In addition, I just wanted to note that I have had maggots on things that were not dead. A few weeks ago, I found all these maggots underneath my cat's water bowl. It was disgusting and I don't know what they were feeding on. There was nothing there except a piece of newspaper.

Thanks for your time. I am looking forward to your thoughts.

P.S. here's the link to that site I was talking about.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-csi-death-dogs-sniffing-out-the-truth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html

From one new person to another, hi! That was very interesting. I really never knew much at all about cadaver dogs, until this past month.

headndownstream
08-14-2008, 05:17 PM
I wanted to say I've been a nurse for 30+ years and am not sure what decomposition smells like. I know the odor of gangrene, unforgettable. But human decomp?, well, I guess I was lucky, we moved them out before that set in.

impatientredhead
08-14-2008, 05:29 PM
Dead things smell, even my garage stunk from one small dead mouse. I don't even know how to describe it but you don't forget that smell, it's more stinky and in your mouth and nose than things like dog poop.

<snip>

.


One of the items I read about the topic said that putriscene and cadavarine are both heavier than oxygen, so you get that clinging to you effect that you describe.

JBean
08-14-2008, 05:41 PM
some WSers have pondered the "what if" of Caylee (I hope it's not true) being deceased and in the truck of the car when George picked it up from the impound, but after reading your comments, I'd be willing to bet that in the July FL heat, ppl at Amscot AND the towing company wold have alerted LE immediately to that kind of smell... so I don't think there was anyone's body in that trunk when George picked it up from the impound/tow lot...
You know this reminded me of a case last year. A woman was killed in a car crash, but no one realized that she was in the passenger seat and she managed to end up under the airbag...dead. The car was taken off to the tow yard with her inside and no one knew it.
Relatives reported her missing the next day and the authorites checked the car more than 24 hours later and there she was. They determined she had died on impact at the accident..so she had been dead for at least 30 hours before she was discovered. The tow company didn't notice a thing.

pang223
08-14-2008, 06:24 PM
I myself have never had the misfortune to smell a dead body but I do know people who have and they all say it's unmistakable. Just think about all of the news reports you've read about police finding dead bodies because of neighbors reporting a horrible smell. And when they quote the people that called police, they all say the same thing: There was this HORRIBLE smell in the air and I didn't know what it was... or...I've never smelled anything LIKE what was coming from that house.

I hope I NEVER have to smell it.

websurfer
08-15-2008, 11:10 AM
He has every right to question the ability of the dogs and handlers.
What he is doing is to question the ability of the handlers to taint or steer the dogs to their way of thinking.
one handler says yes that false positives can occur if, the handler tightens up or gives off some sort of tense signal.
But that depends on if they know something ahead of time.

How can anybody think the handlers knew anything the first time in the yard?

Ok so if anybody doubts these sets of dogs.
Shouldn't a handler come from someplace who is not near this area and let their dogs do a search?
:confused:

JBean
08-24-2008, 02:55 PM
bumping for more discussion. the more we talk about this on the geraldo thread, the more intriguing it becomes.

GizzySmith
08-24-2008, 03:24 PM
Interesting article, Odor sensor could help find decomposing bodies. Two things I found of interest.

1. Vass tested an air sample from the trunk of the car the child's mother drove, where a cadaver dog had signaled he picked up a scent.

Vass said he couldn't comment on the results since the investigation is continuing. This tells me that the results are definately back.

2.Vass and Marc Wise, another Oak Ridge researcher, have been working for years to pin down the signature combination of chemicals that indicate a human body is buried beneath the earth. They also had to catalog the emissions of plants and animal remains, which give off similar odors and chemicals that can throw off the scent for a cadaver dog. Names some of the things that can throw off the scent of cadaver dog and that animal remains are similar scent to humans.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080824/NEWS03/808240420/1017/NEWS01

JBean
08-24-2008, 04:18 PM
Interesting article, Odor sensor could help find decomposing bodies. Two things I found of interest.

1. Vass tested an air sample from the trunk of the car the child's mother drove, where a cadaver dog had signaled he picked up a scent.

Vass said he couldn't comment on the results since the investigation is continuing. This tells me that the results are definately back.

2.Vass and Marc Wise, another Oak Ridge researcher, have been working for years to pin down the signature combination of chemicals that indicate a human body is buried beneath the earth. They also had to catalog the emissions of plants and animal remains, which give off similar odors and chemicals that can throw off the scent for a cadaver dog. Names some of the things that can throw off the scent of cadaver dog and that animal remains are similar scent to humans.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080824/NEWS03/808240420/1017/NEWS01

Very interesting article and thank you for posting.
Something is way off about the decomp smell and the test results imo.

janiekay
08-24-2008, 04:41 PM
I also read another one about the "body farm". It is a very different type of experimental precedure from most. I do think their research is very much needed and could be very useful in finding bodies quicker and more reliably than cadaver dogs. Look at this quote from the article,

"With the August heat wearing on the 24-year-old's body for three days, it was already too badly decomposed to determine a cause of death."

3 days after the death of Janet March, her body was too badly decomposed to determine a cause of death. It has been over 2 months since Caylee was last seen...I'm afraid that there is not much to find anymore. I'm sorry to be negative, but I just don't believe that she is alive anymore. The biggest key is the trunk. If it wasn't Caylee's remains in the trunk, who was in there??? Nobody else is associated with the family and missing, except Zainada, and we all know where she is...(in Casey's head!!!):furious:

JBean
08-24-2008, 04:48 PM
I also read another one about the "body farm". It is a very different type of experimental precedure from most. I do think their research is very much needed and could be very useful in finding bodies quicker and more reliably than cadaver dogs. Look at this quote from the article,

"With the August heat wearing on the 24-year-old's body for three days, it was already too badly decomposed to determine a cause of death."

3 days after the death of Janet March, her body was too badly decomposed to determine a cause of death. It has been over 2 months since Caylee was last seen...I'm afraid that there is not much to find anymore. I'm sorry to be negative, but I just don't believe that she is alive anymore. The biggest key is the trunk. If it wasn't Caylee's remains in the trunk, who was in there??? Nobody else is associated with the family and missing, except Zainada, and we all know where she is...(in Casey's head!!!):furious:
we had a family of 5 discovered dead in my neighborhood. They had been dead for about 2 weeks in a closed up house. Our local media did in depth reporting on the decomp process and it was not pretty. man.

What will you think if the trunk testing comes back negative for human decomp?

janiekay
08-24-2008, 04:57 PM
I think the tests have come back, and they are positive. I think LE is just taking their time and making sure they have all their ducks in a row before charging her with murder, manslaughter, or accidental homicide or whatever!!!

Of course, I didn't think ole' Lenny was going to really post bond, either, so I have been wrong before:eek: if you can believe it, LOL!!!

According to the articles that I have read about the body farm, they have been able to pick up the "smell" of skeletons with their new BO detector!! BOY, I hope they don't call it that, although it is kind of funny...hehehe.

I'm at the point that I have to cheer myself up, because between this and the Gonzolas case in Lynn, MA, I feel like SCREAMING!!!!!!!:furious:

LI_Mom
08-24-2008, 05:11 PM
I think the tests have come back, and they are positive. I think LE is just taking their time and making sure they have all their ducks in a row before charging her with murder, manslaughter, or accidental homicide or whatever!!!


I sure hope you're right.... the idea that this so called mother will get away with 'losing' her baby & then simply going out to enjoy her life is just too awful to wrap my head around.


There's a special place in hell for Casey Anthony..... she's a monster for what she's done with &/or to her baby AND then to her own family.

GizzySmith
08-24-2008, 05:17 PM
One other thing to remember is that when a person dies there is usually a release of body function fluids. Even if a person was killed in one place and then put in a trunk I would think there would also be a residue of these body fluids. I can't remember does urine glow under black light?

janiekay
08-24-2008, 05:24 PM
body fluids that react to black light include: blood, urine and semen. see below:


What Materials Glow Under a Black or Ultraviolet Light?
By Anne Marie Helmenstine, Ph.D., About.com

Body Fluids
Many body fluids contain fluorescent molecules. Forensic scientists use ultraviolet lights at crime scenes to find blood, urine, or semen (all fluorescent).

Salem
08-24-2008, 10:59 PM
I want to know why George did not smell the decomp when Casey drove the car home and he got his gas cans backs. When was that? June 24th? or June 25? If there was no smell then, that means Casey later picked up Caylee, right? If something happened to Caylee on June 16th and she was in the trunk and the car smelled on July 14/15th, then the car had to smell even stronger on June 24th. So, why isn't this noted?

Or maybe this ties into the July 9th typo issue? Maybe Caylee did go to the airport with Casey and Amy on July 8th and she was fine then and everything happened after that date?

Does not make sense that the car would not smell on June 24th, but would smell on July 14/15th. Either something happened between the 2 dates or George knows more than he is saying.

Just my opinion,

Salem

AutomaticAuttie
08-24-2008, 11:11 PM
More then just body fluids show up under flourescent lights.

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/f/blblacklight.htm

Salem
08-24-2008, 11:47 PM
Actually, thinking more about this: If the car did not smell on June 24th and was abandoned on June 27th, it must have smelled then? Car smelled on July 15th when George brought it home. So was Caylee moved sometime between June 24th and the 27th? Perhaps on the morning of the 27th before she abandoned the car? How long would the body have had to be in the car for the smell to permeate and last until July 15th?

Salem

Cagney
08-25-2008, 12:41 AM
Last summer we were having a heat wave and thought what a swell idea it would be to move during this time.
We had a friend helping us and one of the last things to get moved out of our old house was the refridgerator. We had a 10 lb pork loin in there that was vaccum sealed. The pork loin was too big to fit in the ice chest with all the other stuff so the friend sat it on the seat of my MIL's truck, then unknowingly piled clothes on top of it.
We left the stuff inside the truck for the weekend since it was "only" clothes, or so we thought.
All weekend long I kept wiffing an awful smell, and thought that there must be a dead animal under the house. I kept making my husband look for a dead cat or skunk under the house. He never found one.
End of the weekend, I got in my MIL's truck to move it and the smell hit me in the face so hard that I ralphed. The pork loin had exploded its vacuum sealed wrapper and leaked all over her seat and clothes and permeated the enitre truck.
We cleaned that truck countless number of times and used all kinds of enzyme killers and nothing worked. My MIL ended up having to trade in the truck because any time it got hot again, the smell creeped back up.

chizap
08-25-2008, 06:05 AM
Actually, thinking more about this: If the car did not smell on June 24th and was abandoned on June 27th, it must have smelled then? Car smelled on July 15th when George brought it home. So was Caylee moved sometime between June 24th and the 27th? Perhaps on the morning of the 27th before she abandoned the car? How long would the body have had to be in the car for the smell to permeate and last until July 15th?

Salem
I have been thinking alot about this also-I think Caylee might have been in a plastic bag, in the trunk-maybe since Casey did not want George to go back there so badly, maybe he did see the hefty bag but did not think anything then. If he did, he might have asked and she might have lied and said it was trash and she was on her way to throw it out and forgot about it. Maybe time elapsed from him saying he wanted to "get the wedge (or whatever he referred to)" out of the car. Phone call, bathroom etc. Maybe Casey quickly ran out and moved the bag real quick to the back yard (dog hits) and then put it back OR just covered it real quick with some of her clothes or other bags and then had to finally get rid of it after that. Perhaps the bag split when she moved it and created the more permeating smell later.
She seems the type to make sure to get a bag of trash and put it in the trunk, to look like it was the truth, and CHA. Doesn't seem like she wanted the clothes and boots she left anymore- the ones that "smelled like the car"-
OR she might have picked up the bag from whatever temporary hiding place right after seeing George-he asked her where is Caylee-She might have realized she needed to do something different with the remains at this point and moved the leaking bag, not knowing it was leaking.

The two big trash bins off to the left of the Amscot place scare me.

Worse than that is the thought that the "bag" might have been in the trunk when George picked up the car and maybe he dutifully took "that trash out" of the "car that Casey forgot to". I don't think he would have non chalantly put the "trash" that had been sitting in a trunk for 2 weeks in their personal garbage and conveniently hand the bag to the detectives the next day when they ask for it...? He probably would have dropped it in a dumpster somewhere, perhaps still not realizing what it was or what was going on. There is a reason why he called Lee and said I am worried about Cindy. He knew it would only go downhill from there and the lil one was her treasure, her pride and joy.

Someone at sometime felt like the car needed arm&hammer for some reason.

Blackwatch
08-25-2008, 06:58 AM
"I want to know why George did not smell the decomp when Casey drove the car home and he got his gas cans backs. When was that? June 24th? or June 25? If there was no smell then, that means Casey later picked up Caylee, right? If something happened to Caylee on June 16th and she was in the trunk and the car smelled on July 14/15th, then the car had to smell even stronger on June 24th. So, why isn't this noted?"

Does anyone remember WHY Casey was at the house on the 24th in the first place?

bessie
08-25-2008, 09:16 AM
Does anyone remember WHY Casey was at the house on the 24th in the first place?

snipped

According to GA's story, she was there to pick up more clothes.


VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So as best you can tell, it happened between the 22nd and the 24th. someone broke in there.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Uh-huh.
That's when I saw my daughter. I was getting ready to go to work, and the garage door goes open and my daughter comes in. This is about 2:25, 2:30 in the afternoon on the 24th. As she comes in the house, and I said, Hey, how're you doing? And she says, Fine, Dad. I says, Well, what's going on? And she says, Oh, I'm just stopping home for about 10 minutes, get some clothes. I go to go back to work. Where's Caylee? She's with Zanny. And I said, OK, when are you guys coming home? She says, Oh, we'll be back home maybe late tonight or the next day.
I said, OK. Have you been talking to Mom? Oh, yes, I talk to Mom every day. I said, I know, but did you talk to Mom today? She sort of hesitated for a moment and she says, Yes. And she says, Oh, by the way, it's a shame what happened in the shed. And I said...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,398490,00.html?sPage=fnc/ontherecord/caylee

JBean
08-25-2008, 09:54 AM
"I want to know why George did not smell the decomp when Casey drove the car home and he got his gas cans backs. When was that? June 24th? or June 25? If there was no smell then, that means Casey later picked up Caylee, right? If something happened to Caylee on June 16th and she was in the trunk and the car smelled on July 14/15th, then the car had to smell even stronger on June 24th. So, why isn't this noted?"

Does anyone remember WHY Casey was at the house on the 24th in the first place?
The bigger question is why didn't the police officers or detectives notice the smell,note it in the police report or investigate it on July 15?
At the bond hearing the detective said that after they checked out casey's untrue stories on the 15-16th, they remembered that someone mentioned something about a smell so they went to investigate on the 17th. George and Cindy handed the car over that day.
So did it smell like human decomp to the responding officers on the 15th or not?

Salem
08-25-2008, 10:52 AM
So.... acccording to our timeline - there is no way that car did not smell on June 24th, when George got the tool out of the trunk.

Casey, as chizap pointed, may have moved the bag to the back yard. BUT George is ex-LE. He knows decomp smell. Even if the bag was removed, George would have smelled it. So why didn't he? Or did he? Or was Casey in the back yard all this time and after George got the gas cans and the tool, Casey put Caylee in the trunk and drove her around until the 27th when she abandoned the car.

I think the smell question on June 24th has to be answered in order to establish the timeline for Caylee. Unless it was not Caylee in that trunk.

I think the police did not investigate it right away on July 15th because they were sidetracked by taking the missing report and trying to track down the baby. I think it is "safe" to assume that the family did not dwell on the smell in the car when they were explaining that Caylee was missing. The tow company employees may have smelled it, and just didn't know what the smell was. The employees should definitely be interviewed because they had the car for two weeks before George picked it up.

Salem

JBean
08-25-2008, 11:41 AM
So.... acccording to our timeline - there is no way that car did not smell on June 24th, when George got the tool out of the trunk.

Casey, as chizap pointed, may have moved the bag to the back yard. BUT George is ex-LE. He knows decomp smell. Even if the bag was removed, George would have smelled it. So why didn't he? Or did he? Or was Casey in the back yard all this time and after George got the gas cans and the tool, Casey put Caylee in the trunk and drove her around until the 27th when she abandoned the car.

I think the smell question on June 24th has to be answered in order to establish the timeline for Caylee. Unless it was not Caylee in that trunk.

I think the police did not investigate it right away on July 15th because they were sidetracked by taking the missing report and trying to track down the baby. I think it is "safe" to assume that the family did not dwell on the smell in the car when they were explaining that Caylee was missing. The tow company employees may have smelled it, and just didn't know what the smell was. The employees should definitely be interviewed because they had the car for two weeks before George picked it up.

Salem
I'm just surprised that a trained officer did not identify the smell and act on it immediately when he went into the car and retrieved the phone number on the paper. I understand a smell like that is overwhelming and unmistakeable. Maybe it wasn't that impressive after all.
Not sure how LE gets sidetracked when they investigating a missing baby and the car she was last in has a reported decomp smell?!

Doesn't add up.

Salem
08-25-2008, 01:43 PM
I agree that it is strange that the LE did not smell the decomp, especially if they entered the car to get the phone number. I thought Cindy did that?

I think they got sidetracked because the officers went to the Anthony home and talked to Casey, Lee and Cindy. At that point, Casey was saying she knew who had Caylee. I think LE made it a priority to find Caylee. Hence, the driving around Orlando, going to Universal, etc. that ended up in Casey's arrest. I think once they had processed Casey, sat down to read the paperwork and work up their report, they again were reminded that there might be evidence of foul play in the car. Up to that point, I think that LE thought they would have Caylee back in a matter of hours, until they realized that "Ms. Anthony and the truth are stangers." So, I don't think it was deliberate, just a matter of priorities on LE's part.

But that brings me back to June 24th? Was the smell in the car on that day?

Did the car "air out" from June 17th to July 16th? Or did the car "air out" from June 27th to July 16th? This is a 10 day difference. To me, that's alot. Also, it goes to what George knew and when. Personally, I don't think the car smelled on June 24th, which means to me, that Casey moved Caylee sometime between June 24th and June 27th when she abandoned that "dam* car".

Salem

capoly
08-25-2008, 08:26 PM
Off Case: Would someone knowledgable about cadaver dogs be able to help us out with a different case at this thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69308&page=4

Thank you.

EastSideOfSaddness
08-25-2008, 09:10 PM
Sorry if this was brought up before, however, If there were maggots/flies that were in the car they can easily be tested to see what they have been feeding on. I wonder if they have been sent for evidence as well.

On the other hand though wasn't it George who took the trash out of the car?? So how do we know that the trash that George gave to LE was REALLY in the car? hummm...

EastSideOfSaddness
08-25-2008, 09:34 PM
I believe that Casey ditched her car at Amscot the DAY she put Caylee in one of the retention ponds at Blanchard Park. I've been having this feeling the whole time, right when the case broke. I wish I had the money and tools to drain all the damn water there.

pixarfreak
08-25-2008, 11:57 PM
From document reading:
Man at towing yard said car smelled and George agreed
But LE never in the report said they smelled anything.

krimekat
08-26-2008, 12:27 AM
So.... acccording to our timeline - there is no way that car did not smell on June 24th, when George got the tool out of the trunk.

Casey, as chizap pointed, may have moved the bag to the back yard. BUT George is ex-LE. He knows decomp smell. Even if the bag was removed, George would have smelled it. So why didn't he? Or did he? Or was Casey in the back yard all this time and after George got the gas cans and the tool, Casey put Caylee in the trunk and drove her around until the 27th when she abandoned the car.

I think the smell question on June 24th has to be answered in order to establish the timeline for Caylee. Unless it was not Caylee in that trunk.

I think the police did not investigate it right away on July 15th because they were sidetracked by taking the missing report and trying to track down the baby. I think it is "safe" to assume that the family did not dwell on the smell in the car when they were explaining that Caylee was missing. The tow company employees may have smelled it, and just didn't know what the smell was. The employees should definitely be interviewed because they had the car for two weeks before George picked it up.

Salem

they did notice a smell . . . please read pdf #2 (56 of 171)

Brini
09-01-2008, 08:25 PM
How long does it take a body to really start to smell?

I'm wondering if her parents smelled it when they picked the car up and LE smelled it when they searched...how long was the body in and out of the car?
Seriously, if it was in the trunk for a few hours(driving to an alternate location)...could it smell that bad and can the smell linger for weeks? Seriously, why would the smell be there 3 weeks to a month after the fact?

IN FL, in high summer, it could get ripe pretty fast. Within hours, certainly. And, yes, it cold linger for a long time. Including a month, or more, after the fact.

I'm a nurse, BTW. So is Cindy, so she damned well knows the smell wasn't from pizza.

The smell in the car might smell like a rotting animal carcass, to humans. Bu, the dogs would not be fooled.

Boston
09-01-2008, 09:32 PM
I think George was lying when he told the story about the Gas Cans on the 24th. I think he was covering for Casey. He can now testify that "he was in that trunk on the 24th & there was no smell"

It's also possible that Casey removed the Body from the Backyard after George left for work on the 24th.

imo

wings
09-01-2008, 09:40 PM
On the Caylee is mising MS page can anyone make this scrolling stop to see the individual pics or does someone reacall having these individual photos? I would like to see the one with Caylee wearing a white shirt and a red bead necklace. It looks like a phone and keys on the counter behind her, and I'm trying to see if it is two different phones together with the keys. If you see this photo elsewhere as a still please direct me there. Thanks

SleuthyGal
09-01-2008, 11:06 PM
I too think G.A. might be lying about what smelled in the car.

Lake Erie Princess
09-02-2008, 12:02 AM
I believe that Casey ditched her car at Amscot the DAY she put Caylee in one of the retention ponds at Blanchard Park. I've been having this feeling the whole time, right when the case broke. I wish I had the money and tools to drain all the damn water there.

I agree with you 100% !
From day 1 I have strongly felt that she is at the park. It was mentioned 3 x's in the 400 pg. documents.

I have passed this tip on 2 x's to LE. I think it is worthy of further exploration. She just may be at Blanchard Park. It was her favorite place, so Casey said.

ibyoungr
09-02-2008, 12:12 AM
And when was the car picked up from impound?

Caylee was last seen on June 16th.
Flurry of calls on the 16th and 18th of June.
Car left at Amscot parking lot on the 27th of June. No report of smell from Amscot employees
Car towed on June 30th. Tow driver did not smell anything due to a "cold"
Cindy and George get notification that car at the Towing co. Cindy first realizes that Casey has NOT been on a trip for past 2 weeks. Tow company OWNER.. said car smelled like another car he had brought in where a man committed suicide. C, G and Tow co owner open the trunk and pull out a bag that had pizza, cleaning fluid and maggots. Tow co owner threw bag in dumpster.

I think a body would smell in 1 day (like meat in a package) if in the trunk of a car.
I do not think she "drove around" with the body in the car.
Tony evidently picked her up there when her car ran out of gas.
I would think either Tony or the Amscot employee would have smelled something coming from the car.

You might want to read the 400 pgs of the police documents to get up to speed.

Terilee
09-02-2008, 12:46 AM
Why did the owner of the Towing company not contact the police about the smell. Any normal citizen would report something such as that to police. Expecailly someone who owns a company that hauls abandoned and random vehicles to their property constantly. Anyone have any thoughts about it????????

ibyoungr
09-02-2008, 12:53 AM
I have wonder this as well... I would think of the tow co owner knew what a dead body smelled like (found in 400 pg docs) then he would have reported that to the police.
I also wonder why (even though he has 10 days to notify) WHY did he not notify Cindy Anthony by lets say the 5th of June.. or by the 10th of June. Why 16 days later was the Anthony's notified that the car was at the tow yard???

Terilee
09-02-2008, 12:59 AM
I have wonder this as well... I would think of the tow co owner knew what a dead body smelled like (found in 400 pg docs) then he would have reported that to the police.
I also wonder why (even though he has 10 days to notify) WHY did he not notify Cindy Anthony by lets say the 5th of June.. or by the 10th of June. Why 16 days later was the Anthony's notified that the car was at the tow yard???

Was he about to gain possesion of the vehicle? If someone does not claim the car does he get to keep car and make a profit? Why did he have the title for the car already? Maybe he thought he would get to keep the car so he threw the body in the dumpster.

JBean
09-02-2008, 01:03 AM
I have wonder this as well... I would think of the tow co owner knew what a dead body smelled like (found in 400 pg docs) then he would have reported that to the police.
I also wonder why (even though he has 10 days to notify) WHY did he not notify Cindy Anthony by lets say the 5th of June.. or by the 10th of June. Why 16 days later was the Anthony's notified that the car was at the tow yard???
The car was towed on June 30. When no one inquired about the car, the tow yard sent a registered letter to the Anthony's. They were not around to sign for the letter, so the letter went back to the PO and was unclaimed until the 15th. So he did notify them sooner than the 15th, they just didn't know it.

JBean
09-02-2008, 01:06 AM
Was he about to gain possesion of the vehicle? If someone does not claim the car does he get to keep car and make a profit? Why did he have the title for the car already? Maybe he thought he would get to keep the car so he threw the body in the dumpster.
George had to bring the title and registration to prove ownership and get the car.

Boston
09-02-2008, 03:42 AM
After reading the documents I got the impression that the Tow Truck driver towed the car & dropped it off at the Tow Yard.

He didn't smell anything because but had a cold.

When GA went to pick up the car he opened the trunk in front of the Tow Yard owner.

That's when the smell "hit" them.

I'm getting the feeling that the smell was not so over powering that it could not be smelled from 20 yards away for example but if you were IN the car or standing NEXT TO the open trunk then you would definitely smell it.

That would explain why the people at Amscot did not smell anything.

It's not like a body was IN the trunk when the car was at Amscot & the tow yard because Casey had already disposed of it.....

Also, the Tow Yard could be very large & the Anthony car could have been parked 100 yards away from the office - maybe thats why he didn't smell anything.


One last thing -Tow Yards don't go looking for the owners of the cars they tow. They expect you to find them. Most parking lots have signs that say who the towing company is for that particular lot. After Casey's car was sitting in the tow yard unclaimed for 2 weeks the owner most likely followed Florida law on contacting the owner of an unclaimed car.

All of this is just my opinion

pregodego2
09-02-2008, 04:23 AM
an ex-bf of mine worked for a towing company. they ended up dealing with a car in which someone had committed suicide a few days before. the person's body had been in the car for several days...hot days. The people driving the tow truck could hardly stand it, and they were in an air-conditioned cab with the towed cars windows rolled up.

When they arrived at the police impound lot, they were instructed to take the car as far away as the building as possible. My bf said you could could hardly still hardly stand to breathe the air.

It was that bad.

so was this your ex-boyfriend who worked at the tow yard that picked up casey's car? the tow guy there said the same thing about picking up a car someone had commited suicide in and who had sat in it for days. He said the smell was bad and that casey's car reminded him of that other car. is this your ex-bf?

ibyoungr
09-02-2008, 09:56 AM
The car was towed on June 30. When no one inquired about the car, the tow yard sent a registered letter to the Anthony's. They were not around to sign for the letter, so the letter went back to the PO and was unclaimed until the 15th. So he did notify them sooner than the 15th, they just didn't know it.

Thanks for clearing that up. Is this in any documentation like the 400 pgs of docs? I must have missed it.

ibyoungr
09-02-2008, 09:58 AM
Was he about to gain possesion of the vehicle? If someone does not claim the car does he get to keep car and make a profit? Why did he have the title for the car already? Maybe he thought he would get to keep the car so he threw the body in the dumpster.

I do not think the body was in the car when it went to the tow yard. Evidently JBean stated that a certified letter was sent to the Anthony's and not claimed it went back to the PO and then they picked up the letter on the 15th.

wallflower67
09-02-2008, 12:07 PM
Was he about to gain possesion of the vehicle? If someone does not claim the car does he get to keep car and make a profit? Why did he have the title for the car already? Maybe he thought he would get to keep the car so he threw the body in the dumpster.

Was that car really worth keeping? Isn't it about 10 years old?

TotallyObsessed
09-02-2008, 12:11 PM
I have a question about decomp (human) smell. Just recently there was a dead racoon in the complex where I live. OMG that smell was horrible. It laid out in the hot sun for two days, and I could not walk my dogs within 200 feet without having that smell hit me like a ton of bricks. Someone finally removed the dead animal on the 3rd or 4th day, but the smell is still there. In the grass I guess where it lay. Not as strong, but still there.

Is the smell of a dead body like that? Worse?

wallflower67
09-02-2008, 12:16 PM
so was this your ex-boyfriend who worked at the tow yard that picked up casey's car? the tow guy there said the same thing about picking up a car someone had commited suicide in and who had sat in it for days. He said the smell was bad and that casey's car reminded him of that other car. is this your ex-bf?

No, my ex-bf had nothing to do with this case. We live in Nebraska. I was just pointing out that the smell was so horrible in that particular situation because the body was so decomposed at that point. But it had only been a few days.

I'm guessing Caylee was in Casey's trunk long enough to start smelling pretty bad when you were in the car, and probably when the doors were opened. That stench stays forever. The smell probably intensified while the care was sitting there...maybe because decomp fluid was still in the trunk.

A good family frind of ours knew someone who also worked on a car lot. similar situation with a guy who comitted suicide. The towing company ended up posessing the car because no one claimed it. They stripped the whole interior down to the metal, and they still couldn't sell the car because it smelled so darn bad when you were inside with the windows rolled up.

sonicsleuth
09-02-2008, 12:30 PM
Very possible....But, I see just George being involved in the disposal. The reason for his quietness?..Maybe his reason for pointing out the gas cans on June 24th...("Caylee was not in car")

I've read that some people think that george may have had something to do with the disposal but I recall seeing that he told LE that he was worried his daughter was witholding info or possibly lying? To me, that gave me the impression that he wasn't involved. jmo.

wallflower67
09-02-2008, 12:38 PM
I have a question about decomp (human) smell. Just recently there was a dead racoon in the complex where I live. OMG that smell was horrible. It laid out in the hot sun for two days, and I could not walk my dogs within 200 feet without having that smell hit me like a ton of bricks. Someone finally removed the dead animal on the 3rd or 4th day, but the smell is still there. In the grass I guess where it lay. Not as strong, but still there.

Is the smell of a dead body like that? Worse?

I've never smelled human decomp (i turned down the opportunity to when my ex-bf told me about the car they towed). But I imagine it has to smell thousands of times worse...bigger body,etc.

On you-tube, there is a video where a whale beached itself and died and started rotting. Whatever group was trying to remove it apparently thought it was a good idea to use dynomite to reduce the whale's body to manageable sizes for removal. It exploded...and dead whale parts fell on people. I can't imagine the smell of THAT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvha8N3a28U

SleuthyGal
09-02-2008, 12:42 PM
People have said the smell is 'even worse' than a dead (small) animal...hard to imagine and I don't even want to! I'm thinking an entire Hazmat outfit, fitted with special O2 breathing apparatus might be needed to be able to deal with such a mess as what is described in some posts about the state of vehicles. I don't know how anyone could stand it otherwise.

The only thing I've ever smelled was dead skunk, whilst driving on a trip and you know how THAT smell permeates for about 1/2 mi and more. UGH.

McDonough
09-02-2008, 12:44 PM
I have a question about decomp (human) smell. Just recently there was a dead racoon in the complex where I live. OMG that smell was horrible. It laid out in the hot sun for two days, and I could not walk my dogs within 200 feet without having that smell hit me like a ton of bricks. Someone finally removed the dead animal on the 3rd or 4th day, but the smell is still there. In the grass I guess where it lay. Not as strong, but still there.

Is the smell of a dead body like that? Worse?


According to my DH who is a funeral director the smell of a dead body is much worse than that of an animal. He said that it is the most horiffic smell that he has ever encountered and that he will never forget it.

SleuthyGal
09-02-2008, 12:46 PM
According to my DH who is a funeral director the smell of a dead body is much worse than that of an animal. He said that it is the most horiffic smell that he has ever encountered and that he will never forget it.

:eek:

So then how *do* pathologists and funeral home employees deal with it as it must be quite common in their everyday lives?

impatientredhead
09-02-2008, 02:44 PM
People have said the smell is 'even worse' than a dead (small) animal...hard to imagine and I don't even want to! I'm thinking an entire Hazmat outfit, fitted with special O2 breathing apparatus might be needed to be able to deal with such a mess as what is described in some posts about the state of vehicles. I don't know how anyone could stand it otherwise.

The only thing I've ever smelled was dead skunk, whilst driving on a trip and you know how THAT smell permeates for about 1/2 mi and more. UGH.

We are in the Seattle area, and one of the island area farmers evidently lost a cow in the sound, she washed up on shore at the local offleash dog park this summer. It was the most rancid smell I have ever encountered. Didn't eat meat for weeks after that.

Though it was an interesting encounter with eyewitness information and its reliablity. We were told by two people that a huge sea lion had washed up, and then my favorite was a girl who told us it was some sort of sealife but with a huge horn (it was a hoof at an odd angle).

krimekat
09-02-2008, 02:52 PM
Thanks for clearing that up. Is this in any documentation like the 400 pgs of docs? I must have missed it.

yes it was explained in the 400+ docs

krimekat
09-02-2008, 02:59 PM
:eek:

So then how *do* pathologists and funeral home employees deal with it as it must be quite common in their everyday lives?

strong stomachs and lots of that goo under the nose . . .

Studio_Medic
09-04-2008, 06:30 AM
People have said the smell is 'even worse' than a dead (small) animal...hard to imagine and I don't even want to! I'm thinking an entire Hazmat outfit, fitted with special O2 breathing apparatus might be needed to be able to deal with such a mess as what is described in some posts about the state of vehicles. I don't know how anyone could stand it otherwise.

The only thing I've ever smelled was dead skunk, whilst driving on a trip and you know how THAT smell permeates for about 1/2 mi and more. UGH.

There is NOTHING in the world that compares to the smell of a decomposing body. I have been a Paramedic for over 20 years and one of my first calls was for an elderly female who had passed away in her home and wasn't found for almost 2 weeks.(even though she lived in a triplex with neighbors) When I pulled onto the street that her house was on, I could smell her. I looked at my partner and said " This isn't going to be good". When we walked inside the house, the smell immediately permeated everything we had on ( we were not fortunate enough to a have breathing appartus). My partner and I literally had to burn our uniforms, the smell was THAT bad. Not only do your clothes smell, but it gets into your hair, nasal passages etc. Not a smell you want to bring home to your family. It took about a week before the smell finally dissapated. After that call, I think the part of brain that signals smells stopped working.

As far as putting "Vicks" under your nose that is a fallacy. I was informed by a long time worker from the Orange County Medical Examiner's office, that Vicks actually has an opposite affect...it is made to clear the nasal passages, which maker the smell even greater. If they are dealing with a decomp body they will wear special masks that prevent smells from coming in.

One of the many things that strikes me odd with this case is the fact that Cindy Anthony stated the car "smelled like there was a damn body in it" when in fact she was with George at the impound lot and knew that he had removed a bag of garbage from the trunk and disposed of it. I know that is what she reverted to later on, but why mention the smell in the 911 call????

AutomaticAuttie
09-07-2008, 07:36 PM
I found this when I was looking up info on maggots.

comment number 12 by: Tammy Pecore
May 25th, 2006 at 7:03 pm

Last night I got into bed and found 6 small maggotts (I think) between the sheets. They had a really bad oder to them. We noticed a bad smell about three days ago and have been searching for a dead animal with no luck. I immediately put all the bedding into the washer and washed with very hot water. How did they get there? And will I need to throw out my mattress?

here is the link...
http://www.houseintohome.co.za/pests-and-bugs/killing-maggots/

Chloekins
09-07-2008, 08:13 PM
:eek:

So then how *do* pathologists and funeral home employees deal with it as it must be quite common in their everyday lives?

We wear special face masks that have been impregnated with a seive material that reduces the amount of smell that is allowed to reach the nose. It is similar to that which nurses use for isolation/TB patients.

treeseeker
09-07-2008, 08:16 PM
Many years ago, I worked in a hospital and assisted the pathologist. Most of the bodies were refrigerated, so not a great deal of odor.

Suzie002
09-07-2008, 10:27 PM
I think George was lying when he told the story about the Gas Cans on the 24th. I think he was covering for Casey. He can now testify that "he was in that trunk on the 24th & there was no smell"

It's also possible that Casey removed the Body from the Backyard after George left for work on the 24th.

imo

I have always thought George was covering for Casey about the gas cans. He filed the report that about $50 was stolen and then tells Greta that it was like a 1.5 gallon and a 2.5 gallon can. It's been bothering me since I seen the interview with Greta. That's not $50 worth of gas and the shed had a padlock. As we all know, they aren't $50 either. Something just really bothers me about that.

Nore
09-07-2008, 11:19 PM
According to my DH who is a funeral director the smell of a dead body is much worse than that of an animal. He said that it is the most horiffic smell that he has ever encountered and that he will never forget it.
-----------
I've posted this before.My ex~Boss is a funeral director in Cleveland.He said the only odor that is even close is that of a rotten potato,its even worse than that. They no doubt have some sort of mask to wear when working with the body~maybe that is why it is often a closed casket.I imagine embalming would take away the chance of any strong odor.It is a putrid smell.Agh~~Nore

ShinaLite
09-07-2008, 11:27 PM
~snip~
One of the many things that strikes me odd with this case is the fact that Cindy Anthony stated the car "smelled like there was a damn body in it" when in fact she was with George at the impound lot and knew that he had removed a bag of garbage from the trunk and disposed of it. I know that is what she reverted to later on, but why mention the smell in the 911 call????

also, those words were preceeded by "There's something wrong.."

Her instinct to call 911 that day was right on...so were the words "there's something wrong...the car smells like there was damn body in it"

She is choosing to ignore those instincts now and live in denial...or even worse...she has found out the truth and is just covering up for Casey...

SleuthyGal
09-07-2008, 11:36 PM
We wear special face masks that have been impregnated with a seive material that reduces the amount of smell that is allowed to reach the nose. It is similar to that which nurses use for isolation/TB patients.

Ahhhhhhh. Ewwwwww. I don't think I'd want ANY smell getting through to me. I gag just smelling the odor of formaldehyde (hated 7th grade biology for that reason).

SleuthyGal
09-07-2008, 11:40 PM
When my brother was found dead, which was about 2.5 days after he actually died (massive heart attack), and then another day or so for the autopsy, the funeral home was unable to do a regular embalming due to collapsed arteries, etc. so all they could do was a 'topical' application of embalming solution. My mother was worried about any potential odor so she instructed the funeral home to put an empty casket in the room for the service and already have his real casket loaded into their hearse. No one except our family knew he wasn't really in the one at the funeral home service as there was no viewing. It was very surreal watching people come up and say a prayer to what was in reality an empty casket.

txsvicki
09-07-2008, 11:46 PM
also, those words were preceeded by "There's something wrong.."

Her instinct to call 911 that day was right on...so were the words "there's something wrong...the car smells like there was damn body in it"

She is choosing to ignore those instincts now and live in denial...or even worse...she has found out the truth and is just covering up for Casey...


I thought it very odd for Cindy to cuss about the "dam$" car when calling about the missing child, whom they knew was missing, especially after they say they looked under the playhouse for signs of foul play. I'd like to know if Casey did any searches online about decomp smells in vehicles. Maybe she didn't realize it would linger from now on.

SleuthyGal
09-07-2008, 11:58 PM
No matter what, Cindy can never take back those words on the 911 call and deny saying them. She can TRY to obfuscate and change the meaning, but she said what she said VERY clearly. That 911 call will be used in any trial and she will have helped seal the fate of the murderer.

wings
09-08-2008, 02:44 PM
When my brother was found dead, which was about 2.5 days after he actually died (massive heart attack), and then another day or so for the autopsy, the funeral home was unable to do a regular embalming due to collapsed arteries, etc. so all they could do was a 'topical' application of embalming solution. My mother was worried about any potential odor so she instructed the funeral home to put an empty casket in the room for the service and already have his real casket loaded into their hearse. No one except our family knew he wasn't really in the one at the funeral home service as there was no viewing. It was very surreal watching people come up and say a prayer to what was in reality an empty casket.

I personally think that was a beautiful choice on your mother's part. Spare the loved ones the negative sensory memory. I'm one who wishes to remember loved ones in a positive light. The service is just a measure of closure and paying respect for the life lived.

Gram2
09-08-2008, 02:51 PM
My late husband died at home. I don't think it was a decomp smell because he was removed shortly afterwards. However, there was a lingering smell that I can only describe as the "smell of death". I had all of our capreting removed and had the AC ducts cleaned to get rid of it.

oceanblueeyes
09-08-2008, 03:04 PM
I have a question about decomp (human) smell. Just recently there was a dead racoon in the complex where I live. OMG that smell was horrible. It laid out in the hot sun for two days, and I could not walk my dogs within 200 feet without having that smell hit me like a ton of bricks. Someone finally removed the dead animal on the 3rd or 4th day, but the smell is still there. In the grass I guess where it lay. Not as strong, but still there.

Is the smell of a dead body like that? Worse?

It is much much worse. I have smelled human decomposition 2 times in my life time. One the person had been dead 4 days and the other one about 2 weeks. When I recall those times I can still smell that horrific smell to this day and get nauseated all over again.

A lot of it is due to the foods that the human being eats versus animals. From what I have read the body starts breaking down within 20 minutes after death...of course the decomposition rate is greatly affected by the environmental elements which in this case where horrible conditions.

Hot days.
Humidity.
In sealed trunk with sun beating down on metal trunk.
And if she was wrapped in a blanket that too would increase the decomposition rate.

imoo

marlap
09-08-2008, 03:37 PM
This all makes me very curious:

Point one: Caylee wasn't seen after June 15th and we think maybe she was hidden temporarily in the Anthony's back yard because the dogs alerted.

Point two: Casey left the car at Amscott on June 26th.

Point three: Casey stayed with Tony on the June 18th (without Caylee)

Questions:

How long exactly was Caylee hidden at the Anthony's? Wouldn't they smell the awful smell in their own back yard?

Where did Casey sleep June 16 and 17? Do we know?

After she removed Caylee's body from the backyard and until she finally hid it, how long did she drive around with her in the car? Did anyone around her notice that her car smelled awful?


I guess that from June 15 to July 16---either the Anthony's backyard or the car had to be smelling awful.

Maybe LE has this witness information and we haven't seen it.

SleuthyGal
09-08-2008, 05:23 PM
It is much much worse. I have smelled human decomposition 2 times in my life time. One the person had been dead 4 days and the other one about 2 weeks. When I recall those times I can still smell that horrific smell to this day and get nauseated all over again.

A lot of it is due to the foods that the human being eats versus animals. From what I have read the body starts breaking down within 20 minutes after death...of course the decomposition rate is greatly affected by the environmental elements which in this case where horrible conditions.

OMG. This has cemented my decision to be cremated! Not that I was really debating it, but I sure don't want to turn into primordial ooze, given a choice in the matter.

BTW, I read an article yesterday that technically the process of decomp starts FOUR MINUTES after death! It takes 24 hrs - 48 hrs (depending on the conditions) for this process to become obvious/noticeable to the lay person. But at a cellular level it starts immediately after death.

McDonough
09-08-2008, 06:32 PM
:eek:

So then how *do* pathologists and funeral home employees deal with it as it must be quite common in their everyday lives?

When I asked him he said that most people that die away from a hospital setting are discovered before decomposition sets in and once they are brought to the morgue/funeral home they are usually stored in refrigeration until embalmed. They do have masks that they can wear if the smell is very bad but even that doesn't remove the smell completely.

McDonough
09-08-2008, 06:50 PM
-----------
I've posted this before.My ex~Boss is a funeral director in Cleveland.He said the only odor that is even close is that of a rotten potato,its even worse than that. They no doubt have some sort of mask to wear when working with the body~maybe that is why it is often a closed casket.I imagine embalming would take away the chance of any strong odor.It is a putrid smell.Agh~~Nore

I believe that he said that embalming will stop the smell from progressing but it will not always remove the smell from the body. Once decomposition has started it isn't always possible to control the smell, even with embalming.

Fuzzymuffin
09-10-2008, 03:13 PM
For people interested in the science of decomp, there is this National Geographic special video I found online.

**WARNING** Not for the squeamish people.

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/science/health-human-body-sci/human-body/body-farm-sci.html

eve
09-10-2008, 04:20 PM
When my brother was found dead, which was about 2.5 days after he actually died (massive heart attack), and then another day or so for the autopsy, the funeral home was unable to do a regular embalming due to collapsed arteries, etc. so all they could do was a 'topical' application of embalming solution. My mother was worried about any potential odor so she instructed the funeral home to put an empty casket in the room for the service and already have his real casket loaded into their hearse. No one except our family knew he wasn't really in the one at the funeral home service as there was no viewing. It was very surreal watching people come up and say a prayer to what was in reality an empty casket.

Hi SleuthyGal,

I've just been lurking on this thread but had to add that last December my brother died on a Tuesday and wasn't found until Saturday, by my other brother. It was Fl, so warm. The bio-hazard-cleaner type people had to remove everything from the room in which he died. It was a head injury, but I suspect blood wasn't the only reason. All the furniture had to be replaced, even the closet doors, and it had to be re-carpeted and re-painted. It smells fine now, BTW.

My poor brother will not talk much about finding him, and I cannot bear to ask details. I do know he said he knew our brother was dead when he got out of the car in the driveway and when he said that, I don't think he meant he had a premonition, although I think he also had a strong "feeling" that way, too.

The funeral home did embalm him prior to his cremation, just so my parents could view him (they had to travel, so several more days went by, too) and they have actually said they regretted it because of the way he looked:( My mother said she just had to see him, though, regrets or not.

This is a hard thread for me...

Eve

SleuthyGal
09-10-2008, 04:26 PM
eve, so sorry about your brother. That would be horrific under any circumstances. When my mother went to clean out my brother's apt and sort the clothes, etc. she said there was no odor that she could detect. He died in the wintertime in PA so that probably made some difference even though he was in a heated apt. Humidity would have been very low at that point. Plus it was the police who found him--my parents were in FL at the time and I was living in NC. I would have FREAKED out, so it's good that I wasn't right there. I'm squeamish just seeing a dead animal on the side of the road. ugh.

LCoastMom
09-10-2008, 04:57 PM
During the Winter a stray cat had found it's way under our porch.It obviously had gone under there to warm up some.
The dryer exhaust sends out warm air when the dryer is going.
Anyway,
as I was decending the steps near the porch, a strong awful smell was hitting my nose.
it is a smell like no other.
only way to describe it is overwhelmingly strong. intense.
I then proceeded to follow where the smell was most strong.
Under a stack of wood was the dead cat.
It was there for I do not know how long ?
So judging the length of time it took for it to begin decaying enough to smell in cold weather, I could not say.
But I do know that little cat smelled nasty under there.I was glad for the chilly days of Winter, that at least kept the flies away.
my husband had a hard time finding a good spot to lay the poor thing to rest,the ground was mostly frozen.
So, if a human smells worse than that poor dead cat, well....the car Casey had that the dog hit on, and the yard is understandable.
We had that yucky smell there for a long time...
it permiated the soil it was dead on.
So that is the only way I know the smell of death from...
And I really doubt food could do that unless it was raw meat to begin with...



The hotel I stayed at last week in Tucson (AZ) was being remodeled, to get to the lobby I had to walk behind the restaurant where the dumpsters are kept. The smell was one of the worst I've encountered (I'll never eat there!),
but it still was no where near the smell of human decomp.

Amity
09-10-2008, 05:23 PM
For people interested in the science of decomp, there is this National Geographic special video I found online.

**WARNING** Not for the squeamish people.

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/science/health-human-body-sci/human-body/body-farm-sci.html

FuzzyWuzzy...ooopsy, I mean FuzzyMuffin :),

Thank you so very much for that link.
I don't get squeamish over much ......film/videos of animals or babies being abused make me vomit but the link to National Geographic was sooooo interesting, so educational for me I just wanted to say thank you for posting it.
I don't get any of the Good Discovery Channels or National Geographic channels and I didn't know this link to their videos was available.

Amity
09-10-2008, 05:29 PM
The hotel I stayed at last week in Tucson (AZ) was being remodeled, to get to the lobby I had to walk behind the restaurant where the dumpsters are kept. The smell was one of the worst I've encountered (I'll never eat there!),
but it still was no where near the smell of human decomp.


I've smelled a fresh body as it was burning...sour/sweet....I'll never forget it.
I've also smelled bodies in the beginning stages of embalming.
I didn't much like that either!

I've smelled the decomp of a large racoon that had died in our garage rafters and going into the garage one day after several days of 103 degree temps, it was a smell that about knocked me over and it took a couple days before I could get that smell out of my nose.

All this to say ..... I can't even begin to imagine what a decomp body smells like, nor do I hope to ever find out.

Amity
09-10-2008, 05:35 PM
Dearest Eve and SleuthyGal,

I am soooo, soooo sorry for your losses, truly sorry.
In time, I'm hoping the good memories will replace the bad for you both.
My heart goes out to you.

sabego
09-10-2008, 05:35 PM
Last night I watched Dr G, Medical Examiner. She is in Orlando. Found a guy dead in his van. All the windows rolled up. She stated that in Florida, hot weather and such, the smell would be horrible after only 2 days. His death was meth related.

SleuthyGal
09-10-2008, 07:48 PM
Dearest Eve and SleuthyGal,

I am soooo, soooo sorry for your losses, truly sorry.
In time, I'm hoping the good memories will replace the bad for you both.
My heart goes out to you.

Thank you Amity. My brother is truly in a 'better' place than what his life was in this incarnation. In his particular case I feel the universe demonstrated it's ultimate wisdom and proper order and took care of him. And believe it or not, I'm grateful for that!

Maui4me
09-10-2008, 07:51 PM
My hubby and I have left instructions for no viewing or funeral and we are to be cremated. After we are both gone, they are to spread our ashes over Maui. We want them to have a big party in our remembrance. Before my daughter died she insisted there be no black at her funeral. I work a purple suit.

SleuthyGal
09-10-2008, 08:03 PM
My hubby and I have left instructions for no viewing or funeral and we are to be cremated. After we are both gone, they are to spread our ashes over Maui. We want them to have a big party in our remembrance. Before my daughter died she insisted there be no black at her funeral. I work a purple suit.

I applaud that, Maui. (So sorry about your daughter).

strach304
09-10-2008, 08:07 PM
Caylee wouldn't have had to be in the back yard dead or the trunk for the dogs to have hit there. Anything that came in contact with the body would do it. For instance a blanket that Caylee was wrapped up in and saturated with decomp fluids would do it. I'm using a more extreme example for the trunk since it was stinking so bad. That trash bag with the maggots may have originally held an item of that nature that was thrown away in the Amscott dumpster for instance.

Fuzzymuffin
09-10-2008, 09:33 PM
FuzzyWuzzy...ooopsy, I mean FuzzyMuffin :),

Thank you so very much for that link.
I don't get squeamish over much ......film/videos of animals or babies being abused make me vomit but the link to National Geographic was sooooo interesting, so educational for me I just wanted to say thank you for posting it.
I don't get any of the Good Discovery Channels or National Geographic channels and I didn't know this link to their videos was available.

Hiya Amity! :wave:

You might enjoy this if you don't have access to a lot of cable shows: http://animal.discovery.com/tv/animal-witness/index.html

I wish it was more videos but the info on the involvement of animals in solving cases is very interesting.

Angelray
09-11-2008, 06:03 AM
This gives some good info on changes in the body upon death.
*WARNING* Dont read if you have weak stomach..


http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2005-04/1114460899.Gb.r.html

eve
09-11-2008, 09:23 AM
eve, so sorry about your brother. That would be horrific under any circumstances. When my mother went to clean out my brother's apt and sort the clothes, etc. she said there was no odor that she could detect. He died in the wintertime in PA so that probably made some difference even though he was in a heated apt. Humidity would have been very low at that point. Plus it was the police who found him--my parents were in FL at the time and I was living in NC. I would have FREAKED out, so it's good that I wasn't right there. I'm squeamish just seeing a dead animal on the side of the road. ugh.

Sorry about yours, too, SleuthyGal. It sound like you are more at peace about him than I am about my brother. I am glad for you for that. :blowkiss:

Eve

Edrock13
09-11-2008, 09:53 AM
Long time lurker, first time poster. I happened upon this site a few years ago during the Shannon Melendi search/trial and have periodically frequented the site since. It's also hard to miss when Google-ing anything about the Caylee case.

Anyways, I used the search function but didn't really find what I was looking for. I apologize if this has been asked and answered. How long must someone be deceased before a cadaver dog hits on a related scent? Do they pick up the "scent of death" referred to previously, or does some level of decomposition have to occur?

TIA...

Edrock13
09-11-2008, 02:52 PM
Apparently, "cadaver dogs" specifically trained to do so can detect the "smell of death" within a reasonably short time frame...some websites indicate time frames of 1-2 hours, and at least one website indicated that the time frame might be as short as 15 minutes. Also, this smell of death can be detected on items coming in contact with the deceased for as little as 2 minutes.

bunnyphoenix1
09-11-2008, 03:20 PM
I thought it very odd for Cindy to cuss about the "dam$" car when calling about the missing child, whom they knew was missing, especially after they say they looked under the playhouse for signs of foul play. I'd like to know if Casey did any searches online about decomp smells in vehicles. Maybe she didn't realize it would linger from now on.


Do we know exactly when it was that they said they conducted their own search of the backyard?

TotallyObsessed
09-11-2008, 03:27 PM
Apparently, "cadaver dogs" specifically trained to do so can detect the "smell of death" within a reasonably short time frame...some websites indicate time frames of 1-2 hours, and at least one website indicated that the time frame might be as short as 15 minutes. Also, this smell of death can be detected on items coming in contact with the deceased for as little as 2 minutes.

Then my next question is 'how long AFTER a death can cadavar dogs detect a scent?' It has been, what, 2 months since Caylee has been gone. A couple of hurricanes and torrential rain??

I know that the aforementioned raccoon that died in my complex has been removed, we went through the rains of Gustav and Fay, and when I walked my dogs by the spot where it lay the other day, there is a brown, nasty looking spot and my dog wants to smell it every time.

Salem
09-11-2008, 03:38 PM
Do we know exactly when it was that they said they conducted their own search of the backyard?

Good question. If they got the car back on July 15th and then picked Casey up later that afternoon/evening, when did they do this search?

Is it in the 400 pages?

Thanks,

Salem

sha-sha
09-11-2008, 03:39 PM
What amazes me is that George DROVE THE CAR HOME he sat inside of it for however many miles to their house. Can you just imagine how stinky that was? He being a former cop, he knew what that smell was, he knew his granddaughter was missing, he knew his daughter has always been a liar. Can you imagine his thought process as he was driving home? I just feel so bad for him in that scenario.

robotdog
09-11-2008, 03:42 PM
George has known from the "GET GO" that something was very wrong

from the "GET GO"

of all the people in the family, he knew what a loose cannon casey is.

unless he is a complete moron then he knew.. :furious:

Edrock13
09-11-2008, 03:43 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-csi-death-dogs-sniffing-out-the-truth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html

I'm not sure if I entered the link correctly, but here is an interesting article on the cadaver dog topic. I was wondering about the ability of the dogs to detect these scents and how it all figures into the timeline, but any of this could have theoretically happened at any point from the time Caylee was last seen and would be "detectable."

TotallyObsessed
09-11-2008, 04:34 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-csi-death-dogs-sniffing-out-the-truth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html

I'm not sure if I entered the link correctly, but here is an interesting article on the cadaver dog topic. I was wondering about the ability of the dogs to detect these scents and how it all figures into the timeline, but any of this could have theoretically happened at any point from the time Caylee was last seen and would be "detectable."

Thank you Edrock - that was very informative. I admire these trained dogs (and their trainers) very much.

AZRiverRat
09-11-2008, 04:48 PM
I've only smelled what I assumed to be decomposition once.
This happenend over 10 years ago and I definitely would remember it if I smelled it again.
I was a waitress and we had noticied a bad smell in the till.
After going thru the cash, we found a $10 that was beat up
and DEFINITELY the source of the smell. We ziplocked it and gave it to the bosses.....Not sure what they did with it.

Ive smelled dead animals that have gotten trapped in the duct work under a mobile, and the smell was bad, but NOWHERE near as awful as that bill.

Ive smelled old rotten raw meat, and even that doesnt compare to the odor of that money. UCK!

Ive seen maggots on cat poop in a litter box lined with paper.

Ive seen fruit fly or gnat maggots on rotting, mushy potates and pretty rank, but NOPE, not the same.

Ive changed the dressings of a person that had MRSA, E-Coli, and Augerinosis (sp) in a diabetic wound. REALLY gross, but again DIFFERENT.

SleuthyGal
09-11-2008, 05:20 PM
The smell of decomp to a trained dog can linger for years, depending on the conditions and if there is any forensic evidence left behind (like something buried, for instance).

McDonough
09-11-2008, 05:32 PM
Hubby said that if there are porous surfaces that were in contact with the body then they will almost certainly carry the scent of decomposition indefinitely, especially when the decomp is extreme. If Caylee was wrapped in a rug or blanket and that was found by searchers cadaver dogs would almost certainly still carry the scent on it.

Thinking_Out_Loud
09-15-2008, 06:52 AM
Is there any way to get blueprints of a possible irrigation system or other underground tunnel system behind the A's home?

The reason that I ask is that I read an article about cadaver dogs used in the UK. There was mention of a dog alerting on an area on the ground. LE investigate by doing a dig, but realized the dog's alert was actually false and inconsistent. Later in life, the murderer confessed to the crime and led LE to the body. It was only a meter away from where the dog alerted. They discovered that there was a pipe under the ground that had been broken by the murderer's spade shovel. The source of the body decomposition smell was transported down the pipe about a meter away from the body. They, then, concluded that dog's alert was actually accurate.

Anyway, after KC said that Caylee was close, it made me wonder if she buried her in the backyard or outside of the yard behind the house. She supposedly used a shovel, and it made me think that she could have broken some pipe too causing the source of the smell to roam around the backyard.

I wish LE would have not given up on the backyard....

Here's the link to the page about the cadaver dogs.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-csi-death-dogs-sniffing-out-the-truth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html

Salem
09-25-2008, 12:24 AM
Okay - so GA had to of smelled the decomp on June 24th, because KC told AH that her car smelled on the June 25th because of squirrels. So the car smelled. GA had to have smelled it, at least on the gas cans. Why did he not do something then?

Salem

Eulalie
09-25-2008, 01:05 AM
This is what I don't understand: didn't Casey herself (and her clothes) stink after driving around in that car? Didn't anyone notice?

Salem
09-25-2008, 01:18 AM
She must have. And she explained it away to some as a dead squirrel, but GA would have known better. He would have known it was human.

Salem

OakIceShimmer
09-25-2008, 01:43 AM
How long does it take a body to really start to smell?

I'm wondering if her parents smelled it when they picked the car up and LE smelled it when they searched...how long was the body in and out of the car?
Seriously, if it was in the trunk for a few hours(driving to an alternate location)...could it smell that bad and can the smell linger for weeks? Seriously, why would the smell be there 3 weeks to a month after the fact?

Have you ever been near a dead body other than after being embalmed? or in a morgue? The smell is unmistakable and lingers a loooooonnnnnggggg time.
:)

Advocate4
09-25-2008, 06:05 AM
After reading testimony (LA's) telling that the odor from the car when it was picked up was so intense and "far-reaching", I'm wondering what could cause that? A dead body still in the car would explain it, of course. And probably a dead body in the car for several days (in the Florida heat) could cause it -- but I'm not sure we can make a strong case that Caylee's body was in the car from June 16 to June 26 or 27 (when the car was seen at Amscott's). I feel this way because Casey was driving the car during that time and had no guarantee that one of her friends might not ask (or need) to ride somewhere with her, etc. Also a big risk that she might be stopped at any time by police -- for example, she apparently ran out of gas on the 20th and an officer or any motorist might have stopped to offer assistance.

If there was a body in the car for a short time, then how did the odor become so powerful? I thought that the stain might explain that, but results from the stain are apparently either negative or inconclusive in some way -- the test results that came back specifically were stated as having been obtained from the hair, not the stain, so at this point I don't think we know for certain that the stain was fluid from a body.

And if the stain in fact is fluid from a body, then how large was the stain such that it might account for the overwhelming odor? I have dug around some on the Internet and have read that the stain was small, and elsewhere that the stain was large -- not sure we were actually told the size.

Last but not least, Casey spoke to Amy on the 25th and again on the 26th about the horrible smell in her car -- if she'd been carrying a body in there, she had to have known what was causing the smell, and so why would she say so much as one word to anyone about "a smell" in her car? Seems like that would be absolutely (!) the LAST thing Casey would want to bring up to someone.

trina133
09-25-2008, 06:14 AM
After reading testimony (LA's) telling that the odor from the car when it was picked up was so intense and "far-reaching", I'm wondering what could cause that? A dead body still in the car would explain it, of course. And probably a dead body in the car for several days (in the Florida heat) could cause it -- but I'm not sure we can make a strong case that Caylee's body was in the car from June 16 to June 26 or 27 (when the car was seen at Amscott's). I feel this way because Casey was driving the car during that time and had no guarantee that one of her friends might not ask (or need) to ride somewhere with her, etc. Also a big risk that she might be stopped at any time by police -- for example, she apparently ran out of gas on the 20th and an officer or any motorist might have stopped to offer assistance.

If there was a body in the car for a short time, then how did the odor become so powerful? I thought that the stain might explain that, but results from the stain are apparently either negative or inconclusive in some way -- the test results that came back specifically were stated as having been obtained from the hair, not the stain, so at this point I don't think we know for certain that the stain was fluid from a body.

And if the stain in fact is fluid from a body, then how large was the stain such that it might account for the overwhelming odor? I have dug around some on the Internet and have read that the stain was small, and elsewhere that the stain was large -- not sure we were actually told the size.

Last but not least, Casey spoke to Amy on the 25th and again on the 26th about the horrible smell in her car -- if she'd been carrying a body in there, she had to have known what was causing the smell, and so why would she say so much as one word to anyone about "a smell" in her car? Seems like that would be absolutely (!) the LAST thing Casey would want to bring up to someone.


Excellent post and definately something to think about!!

HappyChic727
09-25-2008, 06:24 AM
But in Casey's world, she covers her butt with lots of lies and cover-ups.

She's a pro at lying and covering-up - she's had tons of practice. She faked having a job for a very long time. She obviously has little to no conscience and only cries for herself. Sad.

lookieloo
09-25-2008, 06:39 AM
I've been wondering the same thing: how long does a body have to be in a car trunk to smell the way it did. Is it one day, one week or more? Would the Body Farm know the answer to this? Do the police know the answer? If she was driving around from the 15th or 16th until the 27th with the smell getting worse by the day, then she was starting to think of stories to cover. Before it smelled so bad, she didn't care. That's why she was drinking and smoking pot so much, to forget about what she had done.

2goldfish
09-25-2008, 06:55 AM
Last but not least, Casey spoke to Amy on the 25th and again on the 26th about the horrible smell in her car -- if she'd been carrying a body in there, she had to have known what was causing the smell, and so why would she say so much as one word to anyone about "a smell" in her car? Seems like that would be absolutely (!) the LAST thing Casey would want to bring up to someone.

that IS why she was mentioning it. she wasnt so stupid as to think that no one would ever walk near the car and go holy lord, what is that stench? so by bringing it up first, she was playing on what you just said - why on earth would she mention it if she knew what it was? this made it appear innocuous.

headndownstream
09-25-2008, 07:01 AM
Good question. Maybe LP is right, and a 'stew' was in that bag, with fluids that spilled into the trunk (the stain) Once that soaked into the carpet, that smell was there and was only going to get worse and worse. I think those of us who don't know about decomp except what we've learned (here) have no idea how bad it is.

MAYBE, she mentioned it so that IF someone else discovered it she'd be like, 'I know, I told you those squirrels stunk up my car, now you know what I was talking about'.

I think even CA had no idea how much worse it was going to get at the point. She got rid of Caylee and thought the smell would lessen after that.

Do you suppose she asked the two guys to push her car in backwards so they'd be pushing from the front (less smell) and not from the back, (worse smell?) I thought about that earlier. Cause to me, if my car needs pushed off the road, I'm just glad to get any help, however it has to be pushed. I just think to push a car backwards is weird. (if that story is even true, btw)

GameTheory
09-25-2008, 07:13 AM
Advocate4 I have been pondering on this as well. And here are my two possibilities - and as I understand human decomposition the situation (smell) becomes worst and worst over time right? And from what Lee describes in his interview that smell was HORRIBLE - OUT OF THIS WORLD.

1. Either whatever happened did not happened on the 15th/16th but closer to the date she abandoned the car....like the 25th/26th/27th? If there was a body it was in her car for a period until she decided where to place it....so she wasn't exactly driving around town for 3 weeks with Caylee in the car before she abandoned it and nobody noticed anything.....

2. OR....and this is what I believe is the strongest possibility....she placed Caylee somewhere else and went back and took her at some point and moved her somewhere else (I do not believe it was the Anthony backyard. I find it that impossible to have happened). Whatever happened happened and she the decision where to place the child was not well thought. She returned back and took her and placed her somewhere else. She placed the child in a bag/suitcase in some secluded area and perhaps? she returned back to check the crime scene, see if it could be found, or if ''evidence'' was still there and decided to move her or she thought a new better place? By that time the decomposition must have progressed significantly and the smell must have been horrible even if the child was in the trunk for a few hours. And I believe there was a bag/suitcase used in this case, therefore we have the strong horrible smell but not the overwhelming physical evidence as fluids, hair, skin, etc. I don't think that bag/suitcase was in that trunk for a long period I just believe it was in that trunk at a point where decomposition had already really progressed. And I think she moved the body at the time she decides to abandon her car because it was ''ruined'' from the smell.

Faenorwyn
09-25-2008, 07:15 AM
After reading testimony (LA's) telling that the odor from the car when it was picked up was so intense and "far-reaching", I'm wondering what could cause that? A dead body still in the car would explain it, of course. And probably a dead body in the car for several days (in the Florida heat) could cause it -- but I'm not sure we can make a strong case that Caylee's body was in the car from June 16 to June 26 or 27 (when the car was seen at Amscott's). I feel this way because Casey was driving the car during that time and had no guarantee that one of her friends might not ask (or need) to ride somewhere with her, etc. Also a big risk that she might be stopped at any time by police -- for example, she apparently ran out of gas on the 20th and an officer or any motorist might have stopped to offer assistance.

If there was a body in the car for a short time, then how did the odor become so powerful? I thought that the stain might explain that, but results from the stain are apparently either negative or inconclusive in some way -- the test results that came back specifically were stated as having been obtained from the hair, not the stain, so at this point I don't think we know for certain that the stain was fluid from a body.

And if the stain in fact is fluid from a body, then how large was the stain such that it might account for the overwhelming odor? I have dug around some on the Internet and have read that the stain was small, and elsewhere that the stain was large -- not sure we were actually told the size.

Last but not least, Casey spoke to Amy on the 25th and again on the 26th about the horrible smell in her car -- if she'd been carrying a body in there, she had to have known what was causing the smell, and so why would she say so much as one word to anyone about "a smell" in her car? Seems like that would be absolutely (!) the LAST thing Casey would want to bring up to someone.

The smell in the car didn't necessarily have to come from the stain though. When a body decomposes, it would be enough to permeate throughout the entire car. Even if no stain was left behind at all.....the smell would still be in the car because the gasses from the decomposing body would have already permeated the interior of the car. If that body was in the trunk, obviously the smell would be focused there. I do see what you're saying about how it's unlikely that the body was in the car for such an extended period of time, and I agree. However, it is possible that the body was originally in one location and already beginning to decompose, then it was moved via the trunk to another location. I cannot fathom how anyone could stomach such a thing, but it is a possibility. I wonder how long it takes for a decomposing body to began to smell enough to fill up a car? :waitasec:

JustMy2Cents
09-25-2008, 08:16 AM
Good question. Maybe LP is right, and a 'stew' was in that bag, with fluids that spilled into the trunk (the stain) Once that soaked into the carpet, that smell was there and was only going to get worse and worse. I think those of us who don't know about decomp except what we've learned (here) have no idea how bad it is.

MAYBE, she mentioned it so that IF someone else discovered it she'd be like, 'I know, I told you those squirrels stunk up my car, now you know what I was talking about'.

I think even CA had no idea how much worse it was going to get at the point. She got rid of Caylee and thought the smell would lessen after that.

Do you suppose she asked the two guys to push her car in backwards so they'd be pushing from the front (less smell) and not from the back, (worse smell?) I thought about that earlier. Cause to me, if my car needs pushed off the road, I'm just glad to get any help, however it has to be pushed. I just think to push a car backwards is weird. (if that story is even true, btw)

I don't think there were any 'guys.' I think that is a figment of KC's imagination. I also think LP knows way more than we do. It seems he has talked to EVERYONE! I don't think he was supprised about anything released in the doc dump as I'm sure he already knew that and more. My theory is she moved the body on the 24th and there was leakage which smelled foul IMMEDIATLY, hence the story about squirls immerges.

PhoneBoothBandit
09-25-2008, 08:20 AM
Was there any fluid or blood found in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car? If so, have the test results come back? If a body was decomposing in the boot, it is likely the body would have excreted fluid materials which would have been a major cause of the stench.

It seems sketchy to me. They say that the hair had the 'death ring' around it, yet they haven't actually revealed that they're treating this as a murder investigation, in fact I believed they last claimed they were treating this as a missing persons case... :waitasec:

spiritao36401
09-25-2008, 08:23 AM
I've been wondering the same thing: how long does a body have to be in a car trunk to smell the way it did. Is it one day, one week or more? Would the Body Farm know the answer to this? Do the police know the answer? If she was driving around from the 15th or 16th until the 27th with the smell getting worse by the day, then she was starting to think of stories to cover. Before it smelled so bad, she didn't care. That's why she was drinking and smoking pot so much, to forget about what she had done.

Ok this is an article called the 26 stages of death...it is pretty gross, but it gives good info about what happens after death!

* Moment of Death:
1} The heart stops
2} The skin gets tight and grey in color
3} All the muscles relax
4} The bladder and bowels empty
. . . .4a - Men will get an erection. No, I don't know when, exactly. I really didn't feel like calling up the local mortuary and asking this. And there's people on my mailing list I could have asked, I bet, but it's kind of weird popping up and asking that. No pun intended. I'm not sure my parents know what erections are, so I can't ask them. I did read that this was one of the reasons hangings were so well attended by women, back in the old.days. Big Laffs, seeing the Hung, hung.
5} The body's temperature will typically drop 1.5 degrees F. per hour unless outside environment is a factor. The liver is the organ that stays warmest the longest, and this temperature is used to establish time of death if the body is found within that time frame.

* After 30 minutes:
6} The skin gets purple and waxy
7} The lips, finger- and toe nails fade to a pale color or turn white as the blood leaves.
8} Blood pools at the lowest parts of the body leaving a dark purple-black stain called lividity
9} The hands and feet turn blue
10} The eyes start to sink into the skull

* After 4 hours:
11} Rigor mortis starts to set in
12} The purpling of the skin and pooling of blood continue
13} Rigor Mortis begins to tighten the muscles for about another 24 hours, then will reverse and the body will return to a limp state.

* After 12 hours:
14} The body is in full rigor mortis.

* After 24 hours:
15} The body is now the temperature of the surrounding environment
16} In males, the semen dies
17} The head and neck are now a greenish-blue color
18} The greenish-blue color continues to spread to the rest of the body
19} There is the strong smell of rotting meat
20} The face of the person is essentially no longer recognizable

* After 3 days:
21} The gases in the body tissues form large blisters on the skin
22} The whole body begins to bloat and swell grotesquely. This process is speeded up if victim is in a hot environment, or in water
23} Fluids leak from the mouth, nose, eyes, ears and rectum and urinary opening

* After 3 weeks:
24} The skin, hair, and nails are so loose they can be easily pulled off the corpse
25} The skin cracks and bursts open in many places because of the pressure of Internal gases and the breakdown of the skin itself
26} Decomposition will continue until body is nothing but skeletal remains, which can take as little as a month in hot climates and two months in cold climates. The teeth are often the only thing left, years and centuries later, because tooth enamel is the strongest substance in the body. The jawbone is the densest, so that usually will also remain. So don't forget - brush regularly and floss only if you're really bored.

robotdog
09-25-2008, 08:24 AM
her parents will not publicly say "she did anything to their grandaughter"

but they know, and by not doing anything but defending her they are trampling on their grandaughter

"dont be afraid to see what you see"


they are afraid to see the hippo in the living room making pot brownies
and it makes me want to wretch my NON TOBACCO filled lungs out

:furious::furious::furious::furious::furious::furi ous::furious:

TxLady2
09-25-2008, 08:29 AM
The dead body would have had to be in the backyard at some point, to explain the decomp smell that the dogs hit on.
She abandoned the car because of the smell, and came up with the squirrel story to cover her tracks. I believe Caylee died in the car... and Casey did not know what to do at first... it would be kind of hard to just dump your dead daughter somewhere immediately so she had to have time to think and plan. Thus, the car by the dumpster.
I think LP is right on about this. He ain't no fool.

Insomnia Momma
09-25-2008, 08:57 AM
In the Florida heat it would take less than 24 hours for the stench to start. It would fill the trunk with the stench and continue to seep into the entire car. The fluids would start with in 3-4 days with the heat and humidity going on there. The stain would continue to release gasses so even if she took the body out of the trunk that wouldn't stop the stench from continuing to grow. Of course this is just my experiences with the decomp process and how I have seen it work. I think we haven't heard much about the stain because it's going to be vital information to the prosecution in a murder trial. LE has been VERY calculated in this chess game on what has leaked and what hasn't. I applaud them for continuing to add pressure and keeping Ms. Thang on her toes.

I do believe she was in the backyard at some point. The only thing is that Casey would have had to move Caylee the 19th when BB saw her and she borrowed the shovel. I think she was in the trunk up until the 19th. Casey borrows the shovel to bury her in the yard, realizes it's too much work, puts Caylee back into the trunk and then dumps her body somewhere else.

I also believe she told AH about the smell because she was afraid that someone would notice it. I think she told more than just AH about it actually.

Black Magic Woman
09-25-2008, 09:01 AM
Good question. Maybe LP is right, and a 'stew' was in that bag, with fluids that spilled into the trunk (the stain) Once that soaked into the carpet, that smell was there and was only going to get worse and worse. I think those of us who don't know about decomp except what we've learned (here) have no idea how bad it is.

MAYBE, she mentioned it so that IF someone else discovered it she'd be like, 'I know, I told you those squirrels stunk up my car, now you know what I was talking about'.

I think even CA had no idea how much worse it was going to get at the point. She got rid of Caylee and thought the smell would lessen after that.

Do you suppose she asked the two guys to push her car in backwards so they'd be pushing from the front (less smell) and not from the back, (worse smell?) I thought about that earlier. Cause to me, if my car needs pushed off the road, I'm just glad to get any help, however it has to be pushed. I just think to push a car backwards is weird. (if that story is even true, btw)I've always wondered if the guys that helped her push the car were interviewed. Did I miss them somewhere? where have you seen a reference to the guys pushing please?

Florida Mom
09-25-2008, 09:01 AM
I have just had an opportunity lately to come back and catch up on all of the news here. I just wanted to add my two cents about this "atrocious smell" as described by LE. I was talking with my brother, LE for 15 yrs, and we were talking about the smell. From his first hand experience and very succinct way of putting things - the smell of decomposition is "like nothing else" you will ever smell and "something you will never forget". He also told me there have been times when he has been a crime scene, come home and actually had to throw away his clothes because he could not get the odor from the clothes. So this smell is definitely a "one of a kind", definitely strong, definitely something that wouldn't be mistaken for something else and, as a long time Florida resident, you can take something that bad and multiply it by about a million in this afternoon Florida heat. I think she wanted to mention the odor first to anyone who might come across it because she knew it was there, she knew it smelled horrible, she knew someone would smell it and she was taking an "offensive" approach so she didn't have to take a "defensive" approach later. No wonder the boyfriend said she was already out of the car with groceries in hand waiting for him to pick her up at AmScot - she didn't want him anywhere near that car.

Black Magic Woman
09-25-2008, 09:02 AM
I have just had an opportunity lately to come back and catch up on all of the news here. I just wanted to add my two cents about this "atrocious smell" as described by LE. I was talking with my brother, LE for 15 yrs, and we were talking about the smell. From his first hand experience and very succinct way of putting things - the smell of decomposition is "like nothing else" you will ever smell and "something you will never forget". He also told me there have been times when he has been a crime scene, come home and actually had to throw away his clothes because he could not get the odor from the clothes. So this smell is definitely a "one of a kind", definitely strong, definitely something that wouldn't be mistaken for something else and, as a long time Florida resident, you can take something that bad and multiply it by about a million in this afternoon Florida heat. I think she wanted to mention the odor first to anyone who might come across it because she knew it was there, she knew it smelled horrible, she knew someone would smell it and she was taking an "offensive" approach so she didn't have to take a "defensive" approach later. No wonder the boyfriend said she was already out of the car with groceries in hand waiting for him to pick her up at AmScot - she didn't want him anywhere near that car.I agree completely!

MCDRAW
09-25-2008, 09:16 AM
Was there any fluid or blood found in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car? If so, have the test results come back? If a body was decomposing in the boot, it is likely the body would have excreted fluid materials which would have been a major cause of the stench.

It seems sketchy to me. They say that the hair had the 'death ring' around it, yet they haven't actually revealed that they're treating this as a murder investigation, in fact I believed they last claimed they were treating this as a missing persons case... :waitasec:


In my opinion, they do not have the DNA evidence from the trunk like they keep saying or they would have already arrested KC for murder.

mom2chloe
09-25-2008, 09:17 AM
I have just had an opportunity lately to come back and catch up on all of the news here. I just wanted to add my two cents about this "atrocious smell" as described by LE. I was talking with my brother, LE for 15 yrs, and we were talking about the smell. From his first hand experience and very succinct way of putting things - the smell of decomposition is "like nothing else" you will ever smell and "something you will never forget". He also told me there have been times when he has been a crime scene, come home and actually had to throw away his clothes because he could not get the odor from the clothes. So this smell is definitely a "one of a kind", definitely strong, definitely something that wouldn't be mistaken for something else and, as a long time Florida resident, you can take something that bad and multiply it by about a million in this afternoon Florida heat. I think she wanted to mention the odor first to anyone who might come across it because she knew it was there, she knew it smelled horrible, she knew someone would smell it and she was taking an "offensive" approach so she didn't have to take a "defensive" approach later. No wonder the boyfriend said she was already out of the car with groceries in hand waiting for him to pick her up at AmScot - she didn't want him anywhere near that car.

I think she mentioned the smell once she had completely disposed of the body. She wouldn't have mentioned it prior to that as someone may have looked into where the smell was coming from. She alluded to the story of the squirrel once there was no longer a body to find in the trunk.
I posted elsewhere that the gas cans could have been used to store the remains as LP stated it would be like carrying a 30 pound bag of stew. I originally thought she may have used siphoning tools to get rid of the remains, now I am considering she may have used a garden hose. Since the A's have the pool in the backyard, KC might be familiar with the concept of placing one end of the hose in a bag with the liquified remains and the other end lower to the ground, inside the gas cans; this might also explain the dog hits in the backyard. Anyone know how many gas cans it would take to contain the liquid remains of a 3 year old girl?

beaglebrd
09-25-2008, 09:21 AM
In my opinion, they do not have the DNA evidence from the trunk like they keep saying or they would have already arrested KC for murder.

I don't think LE would lie about this. The reason being that it turned the focus from a missing child to a dead child. There's no way they would "fake" that she was dead and thus lose help in finding a "missing" child. If they didn't truly believe she was dead, with some evidence to prove that, they would not risk her life by claiming such. IMO

Nore
09-25-2008, 09:28 AM
The smell in the car didn't necessarily have to come from the stain though. When a body decomposes, it would be enough to permeate throughout the entire car. Even if no stain was left behind at all.....the smell would still be in the car because the gasses from the decomposing body would have already permeated the interior of the car. If that body was in the trunk, obviously the smell would be focused there. I do see what you're saying about how it's unlikely that the body was in the car for such an extended period of time, and I agree. However, it is possible that the body was originally in one location and already beginning to decompose, then it was moved via the trunk to another location. I cannot fathom how anyone could stomach such a thing, but it is a possibility. I wonder how long it takes for a decomposing body to began to smell enough to fill up a car? :waitasec:
-----------------
I think we quite a few of us are wondering about the same thing.I agree with you,believe Caylee was one place then moved.Is it possible she was under one of the toys in the yard ? maybe that is why the dogs hit.They are not wrong..I think she then placed Caylee in the wheel well in the trunk (storage)..She could have had her there a few days which would account for the strong odor.Maybe that is why she was afraid to have her father go into the car for the gas tanks or wedges.I am convinced she had her in the car at least a couple of days.Amy may have mentioned smelling something if she passed by the car,Casey would try to cover it up.I find the stain interesting.If you have never smelled a rotten potato,let one rot.after a couple of days a liquid forms under the potato~geeze does it smell! worst odor I have ever experienced.A body does not start to smell pronto,takes a bit of time. She must have been scared sh**less! an interesting read ~ "The Body Farm",on thee internet..IMO
P.S. if I have any of the time line screwed up please excuse.This case is really giving me a test for senility and forgetfulness.LOL.

magic-cat
09-25-2008, 09:40 AM
In my opinion, they do not have the DNA evidence from the trunk like they keep saying or they would have already arrested KC for murder.

Knowing that someone is dead and PROVING who murdered them without a body is a difficult thing to say the least. You can guarantee that they have DNA, but to charge Casey for the MURDER they have had to build a case using testimony and whatever other means they have at their disposal (and I think they have a lot more than we are completely aware of), and that takes time. They are being careful and thorough, so when the moment comes when they charge her, she will be CONVICTED. Just "having" dna is not enough to prove the case. They need more, especially without poor little Caylee's body.

BobbieBu
09-25-2008, 09:40 AM
I feel that she had caylee in the car for possibly up to 3 weeks. Cause if you remember she wasn't seen much for around 3 weeks by several of the interviews. She could've had caylee in the back yard like her doll house or something at first and then when she borrowed the shovel she could've been trying to use that to bury caylee in the backyard and realized it was harder than she thought and that's why her car was in the garage "backed up"(not normal) to move caylees body so it doesn't get discovered. Now 2 questions: #1 - was her car backed in the garage before she borrowed the shovel or did she back it in after she realized she couldn't dig a big enough hole for her. #2 - when police went to the backyard and the cadaver dogs did hit on a spot was there any freshly dug dirt or anything to that fact in the yard.
It's just impossible I feel that you would have such a highly scent of decomposition in a car from 2 squirrels. I mean surely she would start smelling it at first and figure out the problem, have the squirrels removed, then the smell is going to go away especially if discovered very early. Now if caylee was dead somewhere else and left for 3 weeks and as the post above the decomposition really starts around 3 weeks then caylees body fluids would sink into the carpet of that trunk and yes it won't go away and would get stronger due to that babies fluids etc.
If you notice everything revolves really around 3 weeks time.
As far as all her lies and stuff, my husband and I was talking about this that all her stories and now the latest of meeting the nanny in blanchard park and having a script to read (which hasn't been produced) for 30 days. Casey when talking to 911 and brother etc... she hadn't seen her baby in 31 days. 1 day after the script was up she told her story and said that she had to ready that script and not get police or media involved. So now that they are all involved and they end up finding the babies body she can now jump back to her story that the nanny killed her because everyone got involved.. Not sure but this is just a crazy story...
Also one more thing... if someone has caylee, there was a $250,000 reward for her. Ok that's alot of dang money. If I had her I would say I found her walking along the street or something to collect that money. I mean nobody is going to keep that baby with that kind of reward. :behindbar

ok sorry enough ranting and raving... I could go all day with this crazy girl.. I wish I could talk to her and knock some sense into her!

magic-cat
09-25-2008, 09:44 AM
-----------------
I think we quite a few of us are wondering about the same thing.I agree with you,believe Caylee was one place then moved.Is it possible she was under one of the toys in the yard ? maybe that is why the dogs hit.They are not wrong..I think she then placed Caylee in the wheel well in the trunk (storage)..She could have had her there a few days which would account for the strong odor.Maybe that is why she was afraid to have her father go into the car for the gas tanks or wedges.I am convinced she had her in the car at least a couple of days.Amy may have mentioned smelling something if she passed by the car,Casey would try to cover it up.I find the stain interesting.If you have never smelled a rotten potato,let one rot.after a couple of days a liquid forms under the potato~geeze does it smell! worst odor I have ever experienced.A body does not start to smell pronto,takes a bit of time. She must have been scared sh**less! an interesting read ~ "The Body Farm",on thee internet..IMO
P.S. if I have any of the time line screwed up please excuse.This case is really giving me a test for senility and forgetfulness.LOL.

That entire story was a made up one to muddy the timeline, and is a completely different one than George told Lee, BEFORE July 29th when Lee gave his sworn statement. He never got near her trunk. She had already thrown her clothes in there and slammed it shut and FORCEFULLY and with CURSING gave his gas cans back: "Here's your f'ing gas cans" was what Lee told the police George told him happened, and George was nowhere near the car.

magic-cat
09-25-2008, 09:45 AM
It was ONLY 11 days from the late night of the 15th to the late night of the 26th. One week and 4 days-not even 2 weeks when the car was abandoned.

Black Magic Woman
09-25-2008, 09:49 AM
does anyone know if the guys that supposedly helped push the car have come forward? if so where can I find info?

Clock's Tickin
09-25-2008, 09:55 AM
In high school a girl down the street had a "secret pregnancy". She delivered a stillborn baby at home, cleaned up the mess, double bagged the baby in green plastic garbage bags and put him in a suitcase in the attic. She told no-one! A week later the odor became noticeable and the family believed a rodent of some kind had died in the attic. They spent the next two days trying to locate the source of the smell. Second day (so a week and 2 days had passed) they figured out it was the suitcase and took it outside to open it. So...if a body is wrapped airtight in plastic, it can take a while for the stench to emit all the way to the car's interior, I believe.

EtherealGirl
09-25-2008, 09:58 AM
It would all depend on how she died. Another thing would be her weight.

A super tiny child with very little body fat would decompose at a slower rate, whereas a normal toddler with their pudginess would decompose faster because fat decomposes quicker, especially in intense heat. Also add in humidity which adds more moisture to the fat. Then take into account a sealed place such as a trunk, it would be like baking in an oven. So two days or so could easily produce a smell that intense.

I am an N.P. and have smelled death many times. It doesn't just smell, it permeates everything it touches and is nearly impossible to get rid of.

And..it does NOT smell like a dead squirrel.

GOD it is heartbreaking just writing this!

carmenmiranda1
09-25-2008, 09:58 AM
Do you suppose she asked the two guys to push her car in backwards so they'd be pushing from the front (less smell) and not from the back, (worse smell?) I thought about that earlier. Cause to me, if my car needs pushed off the road, I'm just glad to get any help, however it has to be pushed. I just think to push a car backwards is weird. (if that story is even true, btw)

Were there really two men who pushed her car? Have we heard from them?

SewingDeb
09-25-2008, 10:00 AM
does anyone know if the guys that supposedly helped push the car have come forward? if so where can I find info?

I think it's in the boyfriend (Tony) interview released a couple of days ago. That is what Casey told him. They have not come forward to my knowlege...I think they are a figment of Casey's imagination since the car was backed in to the parking space beside the dumpster. Who would turn a car around while pushing it when it is out of gas?

tiredofthis
09-25-2008, 10:01 AM
I think she mentioned the smell once she had completely disposed of the body. She wouldn't have mentioned it prior to that as someone may have looked into where the smell was coming from. She alluded to the story of the squirrel once there was no longer a body to find in the trunk.
I posted elsewhere that the gas cans could have been used to store the remains as LP stated it would be like carrying a 30 pound bag of stew. I originally thought she may have used siphoning tools to get rid of the remains, now I am considering she may have used a garden hose. Since the A's have the pool in the backyard, KC might be familiar with the concept of placing one end of the hose in a bag with the liquified remains and the other end lower to the ground, inside the gas cans; this might also explain the dog hits in the backyard. Anyone know how many gas cans it would take to contain the liquid remains of a 3 year old girl?

:eek::eek::eek:

magic-cat
09-25-2008, 10:01 AM
Were there really two men who pushed her car? Have we heard from them?

There has been no sign of these "2 men" in any of the documents released to this point, and nobody has ever made mention of having found them-publicly. If they have come forward, or have been found, it is not public knowledge.

maconrich
09-25-2008, 10:02 AM
her parents will not publicly say &quot;she did anything to their grandaughter&quot;

but they know, and by not doing anything but defending her they are trampling on their grandaughter

&quot;dont be afraid to see what you see&quot;


they are afraid to see the hippo in the living room making pot brownies
and it makes me want to wretch my NON TOBACCO filled lungs out

Huh???


On topic, I tend to agree that she moved Caylee at least once. And with the dogs hitting in the backyard, I can't rule it out just yet that she either laid her in the yard intending to bury her there, or (much less likely) that she did bury her there for awhile.

I'm not sure I can picture KC carrying her around for very long in the trunk esp considering how hot it was outside. So I figure it was used to carry her from point a (where she was killed) to point b (the spot in the backyard the dogs hit on) and then to point c (where she finally dumped her).

Honestly I can't comprehend anyone carrying around a decomposing body that was emitting a horrid smell - much less ones own child!! And I've been wondering if *that* might be what caused her nightmares?? -- They weren't because she killed her daughter - but because SHE was exposed to and 'forced' to endure the terrible odor that ruined 'her' car. I'm sure she would have seen that as a terrible 'inconvenience', and it seems clear KC resented anything or anyone that 'inconvenienced' her. :mad:

redtailhawk
09-25-2008, 10:07 AM
I do see what you're saying about how it's unlikely that the body was in the car for such an extended period of time, and I agree. However, it is possible that the body was originally in one location and already beginning to decompose, then it was moved via the trunk to another location. I cannot fathom how anyone could stomach such a thing, but it is a possibility. I wonder how long it takes for a decomposing body to began to smell enough to fill up a car? :waitasec:

In the Florida heat & humidity? 1 week would be my best estimate. I live in Michigan but this summer we had a ground hog (20 lbs) that our dog got, put in a thick plastic bag and put in the heavy plastic garbage bin. It was the hottest week of the year and a week until the garbage was picked up. Ground Hog in on Thursday afternoon. Friday Hot! Saturday Hot! Sunday Hot! Monday really Hot! By Tuesday that garbage can was sooo foul that we had to set it out by the road to get it away from the house.....the smell lingered in the can for 2-3 weeks even though nothing leaked out of the bag.

sorry to be graphic...but that's my experience.

redtailhawk
09-25-2008, 10:33 AM
Pleasant Smells During Sleep Make for Pleasant Dreams; Bad Odors Make for Bad Dreams, Study Shows

Above Headline from this link

http://www.webmd.com/balance/news/20080922/smells-during-sleep-may-shape-dreams?src=RSS_PUBLIC

This study released just recently and was in the Yahoo! headlines as well just yesterday.

Clock's Tickin
09-25-2008, 10:51 AM
I was thinking about the car last night also and then I remembered something, my good friend J's car.
I love J, she's funny and generous. We make an odd pair, she is 4'11", I'm 5'11", she is Asian, I'm blond with freckles. She can eat two big Macs, biggie fries, giant glup and still weigh 89 lbs; me, I can gain weight on a kid's meal. We have a great time together but I can't stand riding in her van! She mucks it out maybe twice a year; yes, mucks

She has four kids and when she was driving them all around, the car was a health hazard. Half eaten hamburgers spilled soda, pizza boxes with half a pizza, dirty underwear. balled up socks, used tissues and napkins, fruit, you name it, it was there. I have helped her take out two full trash bags of stuff that needed to be thrown away and there was sill at least two loads of laundry in the car.
The point of this is that it did smell in her car, I would ride like a dog, with my head out the window. But...it never smelled like a dead but once living thing. We live in a humid area and she parked the car in the sun. One time, I saw her same model car in a parking lot and to be sure that it was her car, I smelled the car and yes, the odor was there even with the windows up and car locked! It smelled like a trash can but not a dead body.

Don't be talkin' about my car like that!! LOL!

BondJamesBond
09-25-2008, 11:10 AM
Ya' think Casey has some Lynrd Skynyrd on her playlist?

On the drive into work this morning I'm tooling along and it suddenly hits me on the radio I'm hearing...

"One hell of a price for you to get your kicks
Ooooh that smell
Can't you smell that smell
Ooooh that smell
The smell of death surrounds you" :eek:

trina133
09-25-2008, 01:54 PM
Huh???


On topic, I tend to agree that she moved Caylee at least once. And with the dogs hitting in the backyard, I can't rule it out just yet that she either laid her in the yard intending to bury her there, or (much less likely) that she did bury her there for awhile.

I'm not sure I can picture KC carrying her around for very long in the trunk esp considering how hot it was outside. So I figure it was used to carry her from point a (where she was killed) to point b (the spot in the backyard the dogs hit on) and then to point c (where she finally dumped her).
Honestly I can't comprehend anyone carrying around a decomposing body that was emitting a horrid smell - much less ones own child!! And I've been wondering if *that* might be what caused her nightmares?? -- They weren't because she killed her daughter - but because SHE was exposed to and 'forced' to endure the terrible odor that ruined 'her' car. I'm sure she would have seen that as a terrible 'inconvenience', and it seems clear KC resented anything or anyone that 'inconvenienced' her. :mad:

Two thoughts here. There are a lot of posts where people are speculating that KC borrowed the shovel to bury Caylee in the backyard. Supposedly, she carried a deceased Caylee to the backyard, decided it was too much work or whatever, changed her mind and put Caylee back into the trunk. Thus the reason the cadavar dogs hit on the backyard. Here is my question, if you were going to dig a hole big enough to bury a 3 year old child, its gonna be a pretty good size hole and will take a while right? Why would you take the child with you to the back yard and risk someone seeing you? Not so much her family, I would assume she would make sure no one would be home for a bit, but someone could drop by, or a utilities man to read the meter or anyone. Why not leave her in the trunk until the hole was dug?

Also, why didn't anyone notice the smell from the car in the parking lot? Before it got towed. Surely people walked by it. Drove by it with their windows down. I know it was parked by a dumpster, but from what others have posted it didn't smell like garbage, it smelled like a dead body. Wouldn't you report that smell? Why didn't the tow truck driver report that smell? Surely he could smell it when he unloaded the car at the lot.

Just some stuff I was wondering about. Thinking out loud I guess.

qaws
09-25-2008, 02:14 PM
Two thoughts here. There are a lot of posts where people are speculating that KC borrowed the shovel to bury Caylee in the backyard. Supposedly, she carried a deceased Caylee to the backyard, decided it was too much work or whatever, changed her mind and put Caylee back into the trunk. Thus the reason the cadavar dogs hit on the backyard. Here is my question, if you were going to dig a hole big enough to bury a 3 year old child, its gonna be a pretty good size hole and will take a while right? Why would you take the child with you to the back yard and risk someone seeing you? Not so much her family, I would assume she would make sure no one would be home for a bit, but someone could drop by, or a utilities man to read the meter or anyone. Why not leave her in the trunk until the hole was dug?

Also, why didn't anyone notice the smell from the car in the parking lot? Before it got towed. Surely people walked by it. Drove by it with their windows down. I know it was parked by a dumpster, but from what others have posted it didn't smell like garbage, it smelled like a dead body. Wouldn't you report that smell? Why didn't the tow truck driver report that smell? Surely he could smell it when he unloaded the car at the lot.

Just some stuff I was wondering about. Thinking out loud I guess.

The car wasn't parked in a place that appeared to be somewhere where people would drive by a lot (not right next to an entrance to the lot, etc - or walk by unless they parked furthest away from the Amscot), but maybe they would attribute any smell to the dumpster instead?

The tow truck driver, in the first doc dump, reported he had a cold when he picked the car up and due to the cold hadn't been smelling anything since getting the cold.

*shrug*

trina133
09-25-2008, 02:18 PM
The car wasn't parked in a place that appeared to be somewhere where people would drive by a lot (not right next to an entrance to the lot, etc - or walk by unless they parked furthest away from the Amscot), but maybe they would attribute any smell to the dumpster instead?

The tow truck driver, in the first doc dump, reported he had a cold when he picked the car up and due to the cold hadn't been smelling anything since getting the cold.

*shrug*


Hmmmm ok. And what day did KC give GA the gas cans back? When she shut the trunk quickly and cursed at him? Even with the trunk shut, wouldn't he have smelled it then or was that too early of a date?

kgeaux
09-25-2008, 02:19 PM
Sadly, there was a case many years ago in a neighboring state, a small boy went missing. Everyone looked and looked, to no avail, several weeks went by, and the father began to smell something in his car. The little boy had hidden in the wheel well of the family's older model station wagon, and had become trapped there. That poor family drove that car around without knowing their precious baby was there.
It was an airtight compartment, so it did take a while for the smell to develop.


I think I've heard of this before. But I am so confused.....how did the little boy get into an airtight compartment?

Black Magic Woman
09-25-2008, 02:21 PM
Hmmmm ok. And what day did KC give GA the gas cans back? When she shut the trunk quickly and cursed at him? Even with the trunk shut, wouldn't he have smelled it then or was that too early of a date?
George says the 24th

Fandy
09-25-2008, 02:22 PM
Hmmmm ok. And what day did KC give GA the gas cans back? When she shut the trunk quickly and cursed at him? Even with the trunk shut, wouldn't he have smelled it then or was that too early of a date?

You need to go back to the interviews of AH, AL and LA. Many of your questions are answered within those documents.

SleuthyGal
09-25-2008, 02:29 PM
I find it very hard to believe that GA did not smell decomp in Casey's car. That one point has just never seemed right to me for some reason.

trina133
09-25-2008, 03:17 PM
You need to go back to the interviews of AH, AL and LA. Many of your questions are answered within those documents.



Yes, it wouldn't hurt me to go back and re-read those. Thank you.




I find it very hard to believe that GA did not smell decomp in Casey's car. That one point has just never seemed right to me for some reason.


That has me a little puzzled as well. Also, in some posts I've read, the smell of a decomposing body "sinks in" to everything around it. I wonder if KC herself ever had the smell on her after driving the car. Like when she was picked up in the parking lot, did they not smell anything on her clothes or hair?

jon_burrows
09-25-2008, 03:18 PM
Two thoughts here. There are a lot of posts where people are speculating that KC borrowed the shovel to bury Caylee in the backyard. Supposedly, she carried a deceased Caylee to the backyard, decided it was too much work or whatever, changed her mind and put Caylee back into the trunk. Thus the reason the cadavar dogs hit on the backyard. Here is my question, if you were going to dig a hole big enough to bury a 3 year old child, its gonna be a pretty good size hole and will take a while right? Why would you take the child with you to the back yard and risk someone seeing you? Not so much her family, I would assume she would make sure no one would be home for a bit, but someone could drop by, or a utilities man to read the meter or anyone. Why not leave her in the trunk until the hole was dug?


I don't believe Casey could dig a hole big enough to bury a body because she didn't have the shovel for very long. If she put Caylee in a shallow grave, I think their two dogs would have been digging in the area.

A thought just occurred to me regarding the shovel. I wonder if she used it to prop up the doll house so she could put Caylee's body underneath for a temporary burial. I can't remember if the dogs hit on the play house or not. Didn't George and Cindy look under the playhouse? Seems like an odd thing to do unless the playhouse looked out of place or they smelled something coming from that area.

karenz
09-25-2008, 03:27 PM
The car wasn't parked in a place that appeared to be somewhere where people would drive by a lot (not right next to an entrance to the lot, etc - or walk by unless they parked furthest away from the Amscot), but maybe they would attribute any smell to the dumpster instead?

The tow truck driver, in the first doc dump, reported he had a cold when he picked the car up and due to the cold hadn't been smelling anything since getting the cold.

*shrug*

BINGO. What better place to hide a smell than park it next to a dumpster. Got gas from AH and then went back and car had been towed...

weasel
09-25-2008, 03:46 PM
I have wondered about the shovel thing, too. I'm not so sure she used it to bury something, either. I think you're right that she used it for something else. But here's what bothers me .... they found dirt in the trunk also. So, where'd the dirt come from? If it wasn't buried, then it must have been lying in dirt wouldn't you think? I think you may be on to something with the playhouse theory.

impatientredhead
09-25-2008, 03:50 PM
In my opinion, they do not have the DNA evidence from the trunk like they keep saying or they would have already arrested KC for murder.

I believe they have it, they are not arresting her because they think Baez is going to demand a speedy trial which would mean they would have to be ready for opening statements within 60 days of being charged.

One of the local attorneys down there was on the radio talking about the case and he said that is a common defense tactic, especially in a case so reliant on expert testimony (because of the no body). If you can rush the state to court you can catch them with more holes in the case and likely have witnesses of that kind of forensic expertise tied up in another case.

I think we will see her arrest just prior to her neglect trial date.

Gaia713
09-25-2008, 04:10 PM
How long does it take a body to really start to smell?

I'm wondering if her parents smelled it when they picked the car up and LE smelled it when they searched...how long was the body in and out of the car?
Seriously, if it was in the trunk for a few hours(driving to an alternate location)...could it smell that bad and can the smell linger for weeks? Seriously, why would the smell be there 3 weeks to a month after the fact?
GA and CA DID smell it when they picked up the car. That's why CA claims someone put a body in the trunk at the tow yard.

And that smell stays for a long, long time. It permeates everything and lingers.

Salem
09-25-2008, 04:15 PM
That has me a little puzzled as well. Also, in some posts I've read, the smell of a decomposing body "sinks in" to everything around it. I wonder if KC herself ever had the smell on her after driving the car. Like when she was picked up in the parking lot, did they not smell anything on her clothes or hair?

I don't think KC would have smelled the day AL came to pick her up at the Amscot because she parked the car there prior to 7:00 a.m. on the 27th, but Tony did not pick her up until sometime between 11:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. So for approx. 4 hours, KC was somewhere? But where? I do think she could have gotten a ride home, showered, grabbed the food from the frig, gotten a ride back to her car and then called Tony. Now this is a lot of work to go through...... but KC seems to have been pretty elaborate in some of her deceit. She managed to pull off making people think she had a job for 2 years when she wasn't working (that boggles my mind).

Salem

I do think GA smelled something on the June 24th. If not the car itself, then on the gas cans.

Gaia713
09-25-2008, 04:15 PM
I believe they have it, they are not arresting her because they think Baez is going to demand a speedy trial which would mean they would have to be ready for opening statements within 60 days of being charged.

One of the local attorneys down there was on the radio talking about the case and he said that is a common defense tactic, especially in a case so reliant on expert testimony (because of the no body). If you can rush the state to court you can catch them with more holes in the case and likely have witnesses of that kind of forensic expertise tied up in another case.

I think we will see her arrest just prior to her neglect trial date.

I have to laugh. You are correct - that's how OJ got off - they rushed it to trial. I heard Sheck talk about it on a show - it forces the prosecution to hurry and make mistakes. However, NO CHARGES for murder or manslaughter have even been filed yet - and Baez is demanding information he is not entitled to until said charges ARE filed.

He has hired Kobilinski (sic) as his expert. As soon as he called Kobi on the phone to ask questions, Kobi started changing his tune on Nancy Grace's show. I think that is why she no longer has him on as a expert.

I would be extremely happy if they arrested her the instant that trial is over and the verdict is rendered. Of course, if she is found guilty and I frankly don't see how they could find her anything but guilty of neglect, I would wait until she was about to parole out of prison. That would be sweet.

Gaia713
09-25-2008, 04:18 PM
Yes, it wouldn't hurt me to go back and re-read those. Thank you.






That has me a little puzzled as well. Also, in some posts I've read, the smell of a decomposing body "sinks in" to everything around it. I wonder if KC herself ever had the smell on her after driving the car. Like when she was picked up in the parking lot, did they not smell anything on her clothes or hair?

Her pants that were in the car DID have that smell so Cindy washed them

Gaia713
09-25-2008, 04:20 PM
I find it very hard to believe that GA did not smell decomp in Casey's car. That one point has just never seemed right to me for some reason.

If the tow guy smelled it, he was right there with George and I believe George had to drive it home with the windows open.

Puzzler
09-25-2008, 04:24 PM
<snip>Also, in some posts I've read, the smell of a decomposing body "sinks in" to everything around it. I wonder if KC herself ever had the smell on her after driving the car. Like when she was picked up in the parking lot, did they not smell anything on her clothes or hair?

I've been troubled by that question too!

trina133
09-25-2008, 04:26 PM
Her pants that were in the car DID have that smell so Cindy washed them


Yes, I've read that. But I am talking about when she would drive the car. After she got out of the car and went into a store or someones house, did she not smell like the car?

2goldfish
09-25-2008, 04:48 PM
The kind you buy and put in your trunk when you are trying to cover up a bad odor....let's market it and call it:

Pizza Febreeze!:doughboy:

"put one in your trunk and it will no longer smell like a skunk"
:rolleyes:

it's just a thot, people!



:biglaugh:

Fuzzymuffin
09-25-2008, 05:02 PM
Two thoughts here. There are a lot of posts where people are speculating that KC borrowed the shovel to bury Caylee in the backyard. Supposedly, she carried a deceased Caylee to the backyard, decided it was too much work or whatever, changed her mind and put Caylee back into the trunk. Thus the reason the cadavar dogs hit on the backyard. Here is my question, if you were going to dig a hole big enough to bury a 3 year old child, its gonna be a pretty good size hole and will take a while right? Why would you take the child with you to the back yard and risk someone seeing you? Not so much her family, I would assume she would make sure no one would be home for a bit, but someone could drop by, or a utilities man to read the meter or anyone. Why not leave her in the trunk until the hole was dug?

Also, why didn't anyone notice the smell from the car in the parking lot? Before it got towed. Surely people walked by it. Drove by it with their windows down. I know it was parked by a dumpster, but from what others have posted it didn't smell like garbage, it smelled like a dead body. Wouldn't you report that smell? Why didn't the tow truck driver report that smell? Surely he could smell it when he unloaded the car at the lot.

Just some stuff I was wondering about. Thinking out loud I guess.

How's this for an explanation: The dogs couldn't dig Caylee up because she was under the playhouse. Another idea is that Caylee was left in the playhouse with the doors shut. When she was finally moved KC went and borrowed a shovel to shovel dirt over decomp on the floor of the playhouse then scraped the dirt out of it and onto the ground. She didn't want to scrub it up until some of it got soaked up by dirt or something. Decomp can be fairly juicy. Sorry about that mental picture.


Yes, I've read that. But I am talking about when she would drive the car. After she got out of the car and went into a store or someones house, did she not smell like the car?

Probably not. There are degrees of bad. The stink doesn't suddenly overtake the entire car immediately. Perhaps when she ditched the car it only smelled bad in the trunk area.

eta: Living in rural GA as I did growing up I saw and experienced decomp fairly often. One time a cat got under the house and died. Another time a dog. The smell starts coming into the house from the crawlspace but at first it is mild. Gets worse as time goes on. But, it didn't soak into the house and the smell left as soon as we removed the dead animal.