Trial Discussion Thread #14 - 14.03.28, Day 16

[steveml]

one night I was fast asleep then something woke me up. Now I could not determine what sound woke me up but I end up looking out my open window that over looked the woods. Then I heard a chimpanzee wild animal sound. No I am not a loony!

This says to me that Mrs Stipp could have missed that 1st bang (which woke her up) then she heard RS screams then the other bangs. JMO

It's possible.

If that was the case she should have said that in her statement and in court. She decided to tell the court it was being 'fluish' that woke her up, which in turn made her look at the alarm clock for the exact time. Sorry, inexact time, as the clock is always wrong by a few minutes. Then, she heard the 3 shots. Her husband also only heard 3 bangs.

How can we accept her credibility when she keeps having memory relapses at critical points?

 

[MeeBee]

one night I was fast asleep then something woke me up. Now I could not determine what sound woke me up but I end up looking out my open window that over looked the woods. Then I heard a chimpanzee wild animal sound. No I am not a loony!

This says to me that Mrs Stipp could have missed that 1st bang (which woke her up) then she heard RS screams then the other bangs. JMO

But mrs Stipp says she heard both bangs. Says she woke up a bit before and heard the bangs but no other commotion.

 

[BabaJ]

I heard that this bathroom door can open? I noticed that the structural drawing (see the thread with the pictures etc.) shows the door opening out to the left which would indicate that the lock has to be on the right side - facing the door from inside. However, on the actual door photo the lock is on the left hand side. If the lock is on the left hand side she would have to stand in front of the door in order to hold it, pull it or lock it.

 

[MeeBee]

Ad nauseum?

The only one who's needed a green bucket so far is the killer because he knows even if the judge believes HIS version of the story he's going to jail for murder. If the judge believes he's lying he's doing 25 years for premeditated murder.

Yes, ad nauseum. Repeating the same thing over and over and asking the same questions in every post is not going to change anyone's mind. We all know the details of the case by now.

 

[Trooper]

But why on earth would they think it was a family murder?

There were only 3 bangs. They didn't know anyone was dead or even injured at the time.

We have to remember this is an entirely safe, crime-free neighborhood, with high walls, security...and everything.

the quality of the screaming, its implied terror and fear and pain galvanised them into alertness, as it would any normal person. They could not conceive at the time the real reason for the sounds.. the terror and horror they assigned to their hearing of the sound was , to them, being the parents of 3 small children themselves, the EPITOME of horror.. only someone, from their experience, would scream like that if their children were being murdered... all parents would .

 

[nastasya]

Review:

Gunshots happened before the cricket bat hitting the door. (State's witness Vermuelen)

That is incorrect. The testimony was the wood panels were ripped from door after gunshots. Vermuelen very clearly demonstrated how the killer used the bat to pry the panels from the door by wedging the bat into the superficial damage initially created by the bat.

Vermuelen also clearly stated that the killer may have hit the door with the cricket bat to scare the victim.

The killer's own version is that he was standing on his prosthetics when he hit the door with the bat. Clearly the bat strikes were well above the bullet holes. All that can possibly be ascertained from the physical evidence is that he panels were ripped out of the door last, not whether the bat strikes or the gun shots came first.

 

[steveml]

And maybe because it is an entirely safe neighborhood the first thought was a family murder. On the top of it hearing man and woman voices would support the idea. I think ?

Nah, not for me. That's the wrong way round.

In a safe neighborhood, murder would be the last thing you'd expect - not the first.

 

[Mystymiss]

The witness testimony is that the first set of bangs happened at about 3 o'clock. Many Attribute that first set of bangs as Oscar hitting objects in his own bathroom to threaten Reeva. The WC door was locked and she was not going to come out. The arguing and screaming and yelling continue until 3:17 when OP decides to shoot at her, he hit her in the hip and she screamed in agony and pain at that moment and OP realized that he had shot her but not killed her so he move to his right to better aim at the direction of her voice and he deliberately fired three more shots at her, killing her.

I'm in agreement!

 

[Trooper]

Precisely because they don't hear screams like that on their complex.. . these screams were abnormal.. abnormally terrified, abnormally painfilled , abnormally bloodcurdling...


it isn't an every day thing.. ..

 

[steveml]

BIB In his fairy tale (affidavit) where he describes hearing a noise; read it and use logic.

I've read it - it absolutely does not refer to a time at all.

I'll use evidence rather than speculation thank you.

 

[Viper]

I heard that this bathroom door can open inward and outward! So she probably was holding the door!

I have never heard that. And I doubt very seriously that it is true. If the door were allowed to open inwards it would smack into the toilet and that makes no sense at all, architecturally or common sense.

 

[Trooper]

and to reverse the logic.. no other woman had been murdered in that complex before... ( Oscar hadn't got up to speed) ..


so.. they had NOTHING to compare it with.

 

[MeeBee]

Lol, well at least we've got this nailed down!

:scared:

 

[steveml]

Lol, none of this is lining up!

Reeva is leaning over to lock the door and is then shot. But OP is enraged at not being able to get into the toilet room because it's locked and his leg just doesn't work as well on toilet room doors as it does on bedroom doors so he grabs the cricket bat...

It's not adding up. Just isn't.

Don't worry, you'll still be wrong.

You have to read OP's statement, and add/remove what you like (I think that's what's called logic), ignore any evidence, use reverse logic, and then you have your conclusion :wink:

 

[Trooper]

naturally, Mrs Stipps testimony has blown a few lovingly held but erroneous theories out the window, and this is painful and inconvenient, but this kind of thing often happens to murderers, you know. that's how they get charged with murder..

if people just didn't do the damndest things like having the flu and waking up coughing, , well by golly a lot of killers would be strolling around even as I type, chuckling to themselves...

 

[nastasya]

Estelle van der Merve indicated that she heard people taking in loud voices as if arguing. It's difficult to establish if it's an argument or not. She then makes us believe it can't have been very loud by claiming that she doesn't even know what language it was in.

Van der Merwe never said the voices couldn't have been very loud. That's your inference, which has no basis.

Volume and clarity are two different qualities. I heard the television from somebody's room at a hotel last week. It was very loud. I couldn't make out any specific words.

It's an incredibly weak on pointless inference to attempt to discredit Van der Merwe based on her testimony she couldn't discern the language. The defense will also have to discredit 4 other witnesses somehow.

Clearly this is a fact - all 5 witnesses were awakened by what went on at the killer's house. All testified to hearing a female voice and gunshots. The killer's entire alibi rests on his claim that all 5 witnesses were mistaken about hearing both the female voice and the gunshots.

killer >>> :jail:

 

[Mystymiss]

It's possible.

If that was the case she should have said that in her statement and in court. She decided to tell the court it was being 'fluish' that woke her up, which in turn made her look at the alarm clock for the exact time. Sorry, inexact time, as the clock is always wrong by a few minutes. Then, she heard the 3 shots. Her husband also only heard 3 bangs.

How can we accept her credibility when she keeps having memory relapses at critical points?

What should she have told the court if she doesn't know what woke her?? As for waking and looking at the clock I do it all the time... JMO

 

[steveml]

Van der Merwe never said the voices couldn't have been very loud. That's your inference, which has no basis.

Volume and clarity are two different qualities. I heard the television from somebody's room at a hotel last week. It was very loud. I couldn't make out any specific words.

It's an incredibly weak on pointless inference to attempt to discredit Van der Merwe based on her testimony she couldn't discern the language. The defense will also have to discredit 4 other witnesses somehow.

Clearly this is a fact - all 5 witnesses were awakened by what went on at the killer's house. All testified to hearing a female voice and gunshots. The killer's entire alibi rests on his claim that all 5 witnesses were mistaken about hearing both the female voice and the gunshots.

killer >>> :jail:

I'm afraid that was Van der Merwe's inference, not mine, therefore it's supposed to be believed.

She had every opportunity to say the voices were very loud. Fact is, she didn't

 

[DebinGA]

I have never heard that. And I doubt very seriously that it is true. If the door were allowed to open inwards it would smack into the toilet and that makes no sense at all, architecturally or common sense.

OP's bed/bath: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/2013/newsspec_4977/img/pistorius_3d_plan_624x400_clean.jpg

The safest place for RS looks like on top of the magazine rack. If she'd known OP had put down the bat and gone for the gun, a bet she'd have squeezed herself as tightly as possible in that left corner, rather than stand totally unprotected facing the door.

 

[Trooper]

Nah, not for me. That's the wrong way round.

In a safe neighborhood, murder would be the last thing you'd expect - not the first.

Burglary is also the last thing to be expected in that complex.. see Capt Maritz testimony..


but the awful and an undeniable fact is, that a burglary DIDNT happen and a MURDER DID.


Quaecumque vultis, .. quid est illud esse.

it is what it is.. not what you want it to be.