MO - Grief and protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown

[oceanblueeyes]

How do the British LE, who are mostly without guns, manage to defend themselves against unarmed and armed perps alike without having to resort to using deadly force?

Are our cops here in the US just that much stupider?? Somehow I don't think it's that.

Not really addressed to you, Jeanna, just more that your post made it occur to me.


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The UK has some of the strictest gun laws ever. So what the perps did is start using knifes to murder, attack, rob, and rape people. The last I read they now have an epidemic of those using knifes to commit criminal acts. Iirc around 20K a year.

Police is a reactive agency after a crime has already been committed. They are really not a proactive agency and rarely stop crimes from happening.

Even the USSC says LE has no obligation to protect the citizens from harm. Their role per the USSC is to arrest and investigate all criminal cases so they can hold up in court.

IMO

 

[epiphany]

Conflating the two incidents.

The stealing was earlier in the day, around 10AM so it is a separate incident from that, it occurred around 12PM..two frigging hours later..

Mike Brown was going to his grandmothers, I think he was a block away..

Theft of cigars occurred minutes before noon:

Just prior to noon on Saturday, August 9, surveillance footage shows a man police believe to be Brown as he “abruptly turns back around and advances on [redacted].

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/08/darren-wilson-shot-and-killed-michael-brown.html

 

[JeannaT]

What is even crazier is the that Chief Johnson who was brought in to help just said that he did not even know about the information released until he saw it this morning..

There is a huge clustercover thing going on in this police dept.

I think what would have been a horrible event but one that would have not even made national news ordinarily became a huge nightmare because and only because of the way the police handled this.

Do you think he would have been as much help if he knew what began the incident? He was brought in to save the city and calm the rioters and looters. He did a fabulous job. Was it really necessary - at the time - for him to know that MB wasn't innocent?

 

[Kimster]

:modstop:

A couple of things:

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[JeannaT]

Conflating the two incidents.

The stealing was earlier in the day, around 10AM so it is a separate incident from that, it occurred around 12PM..two frigging hours later..

Mike Brown was going to his grandmothers, I think he was a block away..

It appears even that was a lie - or at least a misunderstanding. He was headed to the QT apparently.

 

[Kimster]

I'm going to make a new thread in a few minutes, so have your bags packed!

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

It's not a separate incident. The attempted stop by the cop was because of the prior incident at the convenience store. So the two are connected, not conflated. jmo

I don't believe so. If that's the case, Dorian Johnson was there, why was he not arrested..

One happened two hours prior to the encounter with Officer Wilson..which I have no clue if Officer Wilson knew of this until after the fact..


Keith Boykin

‏@keithboykin

Capt. Ronald Johnson criticizes Ferguson police chief press conference, says alleged robbery separate from shooting. pic.twitter.com/4PMGFx1MKJ

then why would this Captain think the same about incidents are two separate ones...

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Scarlett, what is the "right way" to come out publicly and say a dead young man was robbing a convenience store? That would have further inflamed the crowds, just as those on this board are saying that robbery isn't a death penalty offense. Those who don't care what led up to the shooting don't care. There was also a news article this morning that protesters became inflamed again after the evidence that MB had robbed and assaulted a clerk. It doesn't calm the situation for those who don't want to be calmed.

You report the facts. A suspect was shot dead today after being confronted about a robbery.
It would not have further inflamed anything. The reason this community was upset was because they believed this boy was walking down the street confronted for no reason and then shot and killed by a cop.

The blame for this crazy temperature lays with the police and how they handled it. Not the people. Had they told the truth and the people reacted the same way then it would all be on the people.

 

[Gardenlady]

No one says they do.

But they help explain the situation. They make it clear that DJ was not being totally forthcoming in his version of events. They were not stopped for jaywalking. The cop had probable cause for asking the men to stop.

And if MB was guilty of a strong armed robbery then that increases the chances that he might fight with the officer, possibly punch him, or try to steal the weapon from him. jmo

No, they really don't explain the situation. DJ lying after the fact has no bearing whatsoever on how LE handled the confrontation with MB. MB being possibly involved in a robbery of smokes earlier without using a weapon also does not explain why an officer shot and killed him.

Are our LE in the US stupid? Overly aggressive? Not trained in de-escalation? Thuggish? Have a problem with racism? These questions need to be answered. It happens TOO often. There is no reason for anyone to end up dead during an arrest if they are unarmed and not threatening deadly force against the officer or a bystander. Some LE are somehow able to take down even violent, armed perps without anyone ending up dead. There was no reason, no explanation for why MB ended up murdered.


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[Sonya610]

What it does for me, is get me angry at the initial reports that MB was "just jaywalking" and had no reason to resist arrest or be in a physical confrontation with the officer. It was implied that officer had lied about a physical altercation, but now it seems that it's very likely that a fight DID happen. Again, IN NO WAY does this excuse the murder of a surrendering person, even if he is a suspect in a crime.

Since most everything we have heard so far has been a lie why should we assume the part about "shooting a surrendering person" is NOT a lie too???

Seems to me there is good reason to suspect that it IS a bold faced lie as that would be consistent!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Do you think he would have been as much help if he knew what began the incident? He was brought in to save the city and calm the rioters and looters. He did a fabulous job. Was it really necessary - at the time - for him to know that MB wasn't innocent?

YES. You give people all the information. They did not tell him because they did not want him leaking it. They have been covering this up from the beginning and it almost seems that they wanted this result. IMO

 

[Gardenlady]

The UK has some of the strictest gun laws ever. So what the perps did is start using knifes to murder, attack, rob, and rape people. The last I read they now have an epidemic of those using knifes to commit criminal acts. Iirc around 20K a year.

Police is a reactive agency after a crime has already been committed. They are really not a proactive agency and rarely stop crimes from happening.

Even the USSC says LE has no obligation to protect the citizens from harm. Their role per the USSC is to arrest and investigate all criminal cases so they can hold up in court.

IMO

I'm not talking about your views on whether UK gun control laws have caused an increase in crime there or not. I suspect I'd disagree with you and it's OT for this thread.

What I asked is - how does a police force that is largely NOT armed with guns manage to somehow deal with unarmed and armed criminals alike? Why can they manage to do it, but our LE in cases like this somehow cannot (will not?) take down an unarmed perp without someone ending up dead?


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[Bernina]

What is even crazier is the that Chief Johnson who was brought in to help just said that he did not even know about the information released until he saw it this morning..

There is a huge clustercover thing going on in this police dept.

I think what would have been a horrible event but one that would have not even made national news ordinarily became a huge nightmare because and only because of the way the police handled this.

*BBM*............and don't forget the media. How many MSM outlets run with a story BEFORE they get all the facts? It's all about getting it out there first.

Just lurking as usual.....

 

[katydid23]

I don't believe so. If that's the case, Dorian Johnson was there, why was he not arrested..

One happened two hours prior to the encounter with Officer Wilson..which I have no clue if Officer Wilson knew of this until after the fact..

DJ was not arrested for a couple of reasons. First, he ran away from the scene. By the time he returned, his friend was lying dead on the pavement. So his arrest for stealing cigars was not a priority.

And yes, AFAIK, Officer Wilson was aware of the incident and was attempting to stop and question them in response.

 

[JeannaT]

You report the facts. A suspect was shot dead today after being confronted about a robbery.
It would not have further inflamed anything. The reason this community was upset was because they believed this boy was walking down the street confronted for no reason and then shot and killed by a cop.

The blame for this crazy temperature lays with the police and how they handled it. Not the people. Had they told the truth and the people reacted the same way then it would all be on the people.

The reason the community is upset, IMHO, is because they believe they themselves have been wronged all their lives both by cops and the social system in the US, etc. And to a large extent they are right and those beliefs have merit. Then along comes a flashpoint that causes them to express their anger over how they have been treated, and their families have been treated now and historically.

Almost none of them knew Michael Brown. They are upset about their own experiences with injustice. Finding out this, now, that Michael Brown isn't who they thought only makes this worse. Because now they've been protesting for days over something that wasn't what they thought. It's now worse for many of them - because now they're denied their justifiable rage. IMHO. I don't think a bit of good in the world would have come out by LE outing MB when the passions were at their highest.

And my guess is, now Swisher Sweets will be the new skittles and it will be said he was killed for a box of cigars. Which isn't the case, but the truth sometimes has no bearing at all on beliefs and behaviors.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

*BBM*............and don't forget the media. How many MSM outlets run with a story BEFORE they get all the facts? It's all about getting it out there first.

Just lurking as usual.....

Normally I would agree with that, But in THIS case, I believe this lats solely at the feet of the police.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

#Hashtag for Captain Johnson
https://twitter.com/search?q="Captain Ron Johnson"&src=tren

 

[SStarr33]

I don't believe so. If that's the case, Dorian Johnson was there, why was he not arrested..

One happened two hours prior to the encounter with Officer Wilson..which I have no clue if Officer Wilson knew of this until after the fact..


Keith Boykin

‏@keithboykin

Capt. Ronald Johnson criticizes Ferguson police chief press conference, says alleged robbery separate from shooting. pic.twitter.com/4PMGFx1MKJ

then why would this Captain think the same about incidents are two separate ones...

Where did you get that it happened two hours before? It happened at 11:52

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

New York Daily News ‏@NYDailyNews · 35s ·

 .@GovJayNixon: "Nothing should deter figuring out how and why Michael Brown was killed." http://nydn.us/1pgyrQj

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The reason the community is upset, IMHO, is because they believe they themselves have been wronged all their lives both by cops and the social system in the US, etc. And to a large extent they are right and those beliefs have merit. Then along comes a flashpoint that causes them to express their anger over how they have been treated, and their families have been treated now and historically.

Almost none of them knew Michael Brown. They are upset about their own experiences with injustice. Finding out this, now, that Michael Brown isn't who they thought only makes this worse. Because now they've been protesting for days over something that wasn't what they thought. It's now worse for many of them - because now they're denied their justifiable rage. IMHO. I don't think a bit of good in the world would have come out by LE outing MB when the passions were at their highest.

They are people that deserve the truth. You want to upset people? Treat them like you think they are stupid or incapable of handling it.

These people all deserved the truth from the beginning. If so there would be one phase to this upsetness.

Now we have the issue that was not factual from the beginning and then today new facts that make it clear there has been lies and cover up.

They deserve their feelings and to protest about them. They deserve to have real answers.