Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #13

[Blue Amethyst]

http://www.minibulk.com

I wonder if DG could have had access to mini bulk bags. A body would fit in and it has handles to drag it around. Then he could tie the top shut and drop it into a large body of water. Just a guess on my part.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

How would we ever know if DG had invested money in Winter Petroleum? Maybe the bankruptcy was the catalyst that set things in motion plus the fact that they were leaving the country.

 

[Slebby]

I agree that a body of water is a good option for a body dump if the perp wants to get rid of the bodies as fast as possible. A well weighted package containing a body could stay down a long time, and if it surfaces, would do so only after significant deterioration of the remains and any evidence.
IMO

 

[winnnancy]

Thinking about taking the easiest and fastest method of dumping the bodies, along with reading a comment about the LE search of the landfill got me thinking up another theory on the body dump. We know LE searched the Spyhill landfill. What about landfills in other jurisdictions? What if DG drove to say, Red Deer, or Edmonton, or Medicine Hat, and tossed bodies or body parts into dumpsters? They could be well- wrapped in plastic, delaying any spread of decomp smell prior to being dumped in the local landfill.

Just an idea.

IF DG is not a Psycho( a la Pickton), I keep thinking that " even a dog doesn't sh$@ where he eats"
I agree that driving to dump them intact makes the most sense.
As one poster said " Why take them if you're not going to clean the crimes scene? "

 

[winnnancy]

Yes, the estate sale was a great red herring. 200 visitors through the house? All those potential suspects, all those fingerprints to sift through. Plus the planned move to Mexico? Maybe they skedaddled fast after the sale (yet the presence of the child made that scenario unlikely)
IMO

Does anyone have any info on witness relocation programs?

 

[Slebby]

IF DG is not a Psycho( a la Pickton), I keep thinking that " even a dog doesn't sh$@ where he eats"
I agree that driving to dump them intact makes the most sense.
As one poster said " Why take them if you're not going to clean the crimes scene? "

Yes, it's quite possible cleaning the crime scene was his original plan. However, after killing his victims, he may have decided just to get the heck out of there in case he was discovered - perhaps NO's mother might return? Or the body dump may have taken him longer than he planned?

 

[goodasgold]

Does anyone have any info on witness relocation programs?

Finally someone other than me brings up this idea. Thank you!

 

[Slebby]

Thinking about your post, the fastest and easiest way without too much work or getting dirty (DNA cross-contamination). I wonder if landfills are too populated with people (workers) so they would notice this? I'm not sure how landfills work and have no idea, but I think they're manned and some other posters said they might have camera surveillance(?).

I'm not suggesting he took the bodies directly to the landfill, but rather that he put them in dumpsters that would eventually be dumped at landfills in other jurisdictions, away from the Calgary area. I don't know if a really well-wrapped body or body parts would smell much worse than the general reek of a landfill.

 

[LoisLane]

Finally someone other than me brings up this idea. Thank you!

I think it would make sense to hypothesize this but with Nathan being involved it does not make any sense.

 

[Cherchri]

Tinkerbel1 is responding to one of my posts/google searches, where there is an AE Garland Trucking company located in Mineral Wells, Texas. Looks like a shell company and the company contact name is same first name as AL, but last name Garland, so initials of AEG. Very strange coincidence… since AL has links to Texas and DG has links to motor freights in the past.

Yes thank you. I pulled the wrong quote as mentioned earlier and didn't have time to check if it was your post or LL's.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

IF DG is not a Psycho( a la Pickton), I keep thinking that " even a dog doesn't sh$@ where he eats"
I agree that driving to dump them intact makes the most sense.
As one poster said " Why take them if you're not going to clean the crimes scene? "

Landfills are businesses with opening and closing times, fences, cameras, scales... you can't just pull up at midnight and kick things out of your vehicle.

 

[goodasgold]

I think it would make sense to hypothesize this but with Nathan being involved it does not make any sense.

I was thinking more on the lines of NO being relocated because he slept through the murder of AL and KL in another room. Here are my reasons for it.

When someone goes into witness protection the family is unaware and if it is a child only the parents can know and sometimes not both parents. If NO slept through it and JO found him the next morning, they may be hiding NO for his own safety[modsnip]. This would reason for many things. 1) Why the scene was discovered at 10:00 am yet Amber Alert was not issued until late afternoon. (perhaps get NO out of Alberta before Amber Alert). 2) The parents commenting they know he is out there because he was not supposed to be there. (may explain him sleeping through the crime). 3) Why she would not comment on last time she seen NO even when it was public that is was 10:00 pm when she left. (maybe she seen him that morning, [modsnip]. 4) Why it states only 2 homicides at the house on the crime map. (they cannot legally say there were 3.) However in witness protection LE will fake Amber Alerts and even deaths. Hence throwing the 2nd degree murder in there. (may want DG to talk and say he never seen the kid and admitting he was there with AL/KL.

I have shared this with a couple people already and i know you guys think i am crazy and maybe i am for thinking this. But it has always been in the back of my mind. Just an idea of mine, not in stone. JMO

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I agree that a body of water is a good option for a body dump if the perp wants to get rid of the bodies as fast as possible. A well weighted package containing a body could stay down a long time, and if it surfaces, would do so only after significant deterioration of the remains and any evidence.
IMO

It doesn't make sense to me to take the bodies, and then panic to get rid of them as quick as you can. Why put yourself in that panicked situation? There had to be an endgame or goal to it, otherwise just get out of the house as quickly as possible and hope no one sees you. The only reason I would take the bodies, was if I was confident I could make them disappear without being found.

This isn't like a missing prostitute which wouldn't prompt much of a search. Obviously, this was going to make the news within 48 hours of the event. Dump the bodies anywhere intact, and all you have done is create more evidence. All it takes is for your hair to end up in one of your body part bags...

 

[Slebby]

I was thinking more on the lines of NO being relocated because he slept through the murder of AL and KL in another room. Here are my reasons for it.

When someone goes into witness protection the family is unaware and if it is a child only the parents can know and sometimes not both parents. If NO slept through it and JO found him the next morning, they may be hiding NO for his own safety[modsnip]. This would reason for many things. 1) Why the scene was discovered at 10:00 am yet Amber Alert was not issued until late afternoon. (perhaps get NO out of Alberta before Amber Alert). 2) The parents commenting they know he is out there because he was not supposed to be there. (may explain him sleeping through the crime). 3) Why she would not comment on last time she seen NO even when it was public that is was 10:00 pm when she left. (maybe she seen him that morning[modsnip]. 4) Why it states only 2 homicides at the house on the crime map. (they cannot legally say there were 3.) However in witness protection LE will fake Amber Alerts and even deaths. Hence throwing the 2nd degree murder in there. (may want DG to talk and say he never seen the kid and admitting he was there with AL/KL.

I have shared this with a couple people already and i know you guys think i am crazy and maybe i am for thinking this. But it has always been in the back of my mind. Just an idea of mine, not in stone. JMO

Why do you say "family members seem to be involved in the disappearances/murders"? On what evidence do you base this?

Anyone involved in the murders - DG or any so-called accomplices - already know who they did or did not kill. How are they fooled by a faked report of NO's death? So even if his death is falsely reported, the killer(s) know already that he is, in fact, still alive, because they didn't kill him.

And - if NO slept through the murders, how does that make him a witness? He wouldn't have seen anything.
IMHO

 

[Blue Amethyst]

I was thinking more on the lines of NO being relocated because he slept through the murder of AL and KL in another room. Here are my reasons for it.

When someone goes into witness protection the family is unaware and if it is a child only the parents can know and sometimes not both parents. If NO slept through it and JO found him the next morning, they may be hiding NO for his own safety[modsnip]. This would reason for many things. 1) Why the scene was discovered at 10:00 am yet Amber Alert was not issued until late afternoon. (perhaps get NO out of Alberta before Amber Alert). 2) The parents commenting they know he is out there because he was not supposed to be there. (may explain him sleeping through the crime). 3) Why she would not comment on last time she seen NO even when it was public that is was 10:00 pm when she left. (maybe she seen him that morning[modsnip]. 4) Why it states only 2 homicides at the house on the crime map. (they cannot legally say there were 3.) However in witness protection LE will fake Amber Alerts and even deaths. Hence throwing the 2nd degree murder in there. (may want DG to talk and say he never seen the kid and admitting he was there with AL/KL.

I have shared this with a couple people already and i know you guys think i am crazy and maybe i am for thinking this. But it has always been in the back of my mind. Just an idea of mine, not in stone. JMO

Anything is a possibility. Any ideas may also open the minds of others to what may have happened.

 

[LoisLane]

Have LE actually said or confirmed that they have "physical" evidence (as in blood, DNA) to prove that the 3 missing people are dead? I have watched the interviews a few times and they seem to avoid that type of statement. If they did have enough of the physical evidence why can't they say so? How would that compromise the investigation? A simple statement that would not compromise the investigation to state that they have confirmed blood and DNA to match that of the victims. I think they are using some of the points listed in the A-Z article I posted in a previous post, I don't believe they have such "physical" evidence.

Here is what I am curious about from the article:

Constructing & Deconstructing a Murder To prove there was a death in missing-body cases, prosecutors must prove there has been no sign of the person’s existence. That means presenting close friends and family members who would say they haven’t heard from the alleged victim in a long time and that the missing person would not have just gone away without informing them. Prosecutors and investigators also comb through records in 50 states to show there has been no activity in the accounts belonging to the victim, such as Social Security funds, bank accounts and credit card activity.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95807&page=1&singlePage=true

I am convinced they have evidence to place DG at the crime scene and he is involved to some degree. If the bodies are not recovered and they do have "physical" evidence I would assume this is not DG's first attempt at murder and there is no hope in recovering the bodies.

 

[goodasgold]

Why do you say "family members seem to be involved in the disappearances/murders"? On what evidence do you base this?

Anyone involved in the murders - DG or any so-called accomplices - already know who they did or did not kill. How are they fooled by a faked report of NO's death? So even if his death is falsely reported, the killer(s) know already that he is, in fact, still alive, because they didn't kill him.

And - if NO slept through the murders, how does that make him a witness? He wouldn't have seen anything.
IMHO

DG is Allen's brother-in-law which makes him a family member through marriage. The accused may see him as a witness to target even if he slept through the crime. I do not think this family is as shocked as people would think that DG is behind these murders. If DG got away with these crimes he may come back later for NO because all NO would have to say is i heard grandpa arguing with him, etc. Maybe not witness protection as much as just protecting NO.

DG may think NO ran away that morning and no one could find him therefore he is no longer a threat. He certainly is not going to say oh i never hurt the kid to LE admitting he was there. He may be wondering himself what happened to NO and if he is out there but he is not going to ask LE questions about it. JMO

 

[Blue Amethyst]

I wonder if DG followed the case of the McCanns. They arrested a suspect but then had to hold him on separate charges. There were no bodies and I don't think they have enough evidence to arrest TV for murder. Perhaps that is where he got the idea to make the bodies disappear and then there is not enough evidence against you. I am surprised that he didn't burn the house down.

 

[Slebby]

DG is Alan L's brother-in-law which makes him a family member through marriage. The accused may see him as a witness to target even if he slept through the crime. I do not think this family is as shocked as people would think that DG is behind these murders. If DG got away with these crimes he may come back later for NO because all NO would have to say is i heard grandpa arguing with him, etc. Maybe not witness protection as much as just protecting NO.

DG may think NO ran away that morning and no one could find him therefore he is no longer a threat. He certainly is not going to say oh i never hurt the kid to LE admitting he was there. He may be wondering himself what happened to NO and if he is out there but he is not going to ask LE questions about it. JMO

OK, DG is only one, and a distant "relative" at that. I would argue that, as Alan L's common-law bil, he was not a relative to NO at all but rather a "relative of a relative".

I find this theory to be beyond doubtful. DG is not some mafia don nor criminal mastermind with a long reach to rub out any and all witnesses. He's a common criminal.

To suggest a 5 year old child would be removed from his family (are you suggesting forever?) and his siblings, and all other relatives and friends but for one or two parents would be told their brother/nephew/grandchild is DEAD, with all the grief surrounding such news, with candlelight vigils, balloon release memorial events - no LE authority would ask it, no parent would agree to it.

Even if NO was alive (and I'm sorry, I'd love for that to be true but it just isn't) he would not be in any sort of danger from one common criminal. There is nothing special about DG. If there was, he wouldn't have a criminal record for all kinds of ordinary crimes.

And if DG gets away with these crimes, he could not be recharged. So if NO was alive and remembered an argument, it would be too late for justice.

Believe what you like, but i personally think this is the kind of story we see on tv and not in real life.
IMHO

 

[deugirtni]

Is this known to have happened or hypothetical?

... like the security camera at the construction sight that captured Garland's truck on the night of the murders.