MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #8

[CoolJ]

It's my opinion, you do not understand the sworn duty of a police officer or the laws that justify the shoot.
Brown was a serious danger to anyone whose path he crossed next....no freaking way could Officer Wilson allow him to walk away or runaway based on BROWNS actions that day.
IMO



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But Wilson didn't know browns actions that day... And it is just your opinion(which I respect) that he was a serious danger to anyone he crossed paths with next... If he was such a loose cannon and threat to everyone Why didn't he attack the 2 guys he spoke to just before this, instead of offering them positive feedback to their worries?

 

[Jacie Estes]

BBM This is why I am glad we live in a Castle Law state. Average response time in our area is 15 minutes, twice it took almost 1/2 hour for an ambulance response when I was in treatment for cancer. People have to know how to defend themselves, know how to use the gun to protect your family. IMHO

I was just catching up here and just had to stop and thank you for this post! Thank you so much!

I've mostly stayed away from commenting because my late husband was a retired LE officer, then had a second career as a warden at our parish correctional facility. He was a good, honorable man. He would tell all of his officers that he was color blind and if they were good officers, they would be also. I've worked in LE as well. The laws encompass everyone. The one thing a good LE officer hates is a bad one. Of course there are some bad ones. There is good and bad in every profession.

I am sorry to see such animosity toward LE these days. Let's say a criminal was breaking into your house and you call 911. Would you not be grateful that LE responded and apprehended that criminal? Can you think of a situation where LE have actually been the 'good guys'?

Please, please do not lump all LE into being bad. At first I did not know what to think of this shooting, so I just kept reading and listening. Now I honestly feel the shooting was justified. I respect everyone's opinion and would like my opinion to be respected as well.

There used to be a saying of "Give peace a chance." Now I hope that people can "Give truth a chance." Wherever the truth falls, it is what we need. Give the investigation a chance.

MOO

 

[DebinGA]

Another interview with an eyewitness Grady/Brady?:

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/...fo-in-brown-shooting-320756803662#discussions

He makes punching motions in the interview and says MB arms were through the window.

He says "he was punching on him" on the video he recorded.

At least in that video, I found Grady credible in the sense of giving an honest account of what he did and didn't see. Grady estimated DW's final shots came ~20' from MB. IIRC, and I may not, that's within the range officers are taught to fire and keep firing in a situation like this.

 

[Iwazaru]

So I been thinking about what it is that makes me want to really give MB the benefit of the doubt here.. for now anyway, and why most others, here at least, seem to hold the opposite viewpoint. I truly think that different folks have different perspectives of what kind of force an LEO is entitled to use and what constitutes a justifiable shooting. I spent some time today watching some police shooting and brutality videos... You know, the ones where people post to Facebook usually condemning the police for their use of force. From reading the comments to those types of videos it is clear to me that 1) people see different things when looking at the same thing. 2) people have extremely different viewpoints of justifiable force by a LEO. I truly believe that even if this MB shooting was caught on tape in its totality, that we would STILL have 2 sides disagreeing with each other.... The problem isn't necessarily what actually happened but what the general public consider justifiable. IMO

100% agree with your post here. I also find the number of posters on here calling
the killing of MB "justified IMO" to be very <mod snip>. Especially since we know very little of the truth of what happened the night of the killing. IMO of course.

 

[LambChop]

I think there is a misunderstanding that the officer had some obligation to let the person who assaulted him get away and let some other officer handle it. That is his job. He was assaulted and it was up to him to go after both of them and place them under arrest. MB turning to walk back is where the problem is. We know from reports that officer said "Freeze". Only the officer can tell us what MB's demeanor was and what that officer felt was going to happen when MB reached him. The officer probably got a first hand look at a very angry MB when he bumped him with his door and MB reached inside to punch him. So what was MB's demeanor as he headed towards the officer. Only two people would know and one is dead. jmo

 

[popsicle]

100% agree with your post here. I also find the number of posters on here calling
the killing of MB "justified IMO" to be very demented. Especially since we know very little of the truth of what happened the night of the killing. IMO of course.

What is known so far and Mo statutes on justification of defense. A mind is a horrible thing to waste. jmo

 

[Frydaddy]

Yeah that one is a little far fetched... But it sure is possible that the store owner thought he was stealing something and he wasn't and that is why he got rough. (Before you all go nuts over this thought... Understand I am saying it IS a possibility). Do I think this? No not really.. But you know what, watching that video, there is something going on there that isn't adding up.. Like a part of the video missing... It is like the 2 videos are the start and end with something missing in the middle maybe. I will have to go watch again.

Dorian Johnson's lawyer said Dorian admitted he and Brown took part in the theft of cigars. When someone's lawyer cops to a crime, what more do you need?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Could you link the article or report that shows the trajectory? I think I missed it. Thanks.

It has been all over the news. The shot that killed him went through the top of his head meaning his head was down not straight up.
I have big issues with 6 bullets and I have big issues with MB's head being down when he is shot directly in the top of the head. It stands to reason that MB could have been going down already at that point from the other bullets.

There is something very wrong here. I can see a lot of possibilities here but so far most of them end with DW making a grave error in judgment. IMO

 

[katydid23]

But Wilson didn't know browns actions that day... And it is just your opinion(which I respect) that he was a serious danger to anyone he crossed paths with next... If he was such a loose cannon and threat to everyone Why didn't he attack the 2 guys he spoke to just before this, instead of offering them positive feedback to their worries?

He didnt attack those 2 guys because they didn't have anything he wanted at the time. Maybe if they had a box of cigarillos he would have.

But there is more and more reason to believe that he DID lean in and punch the cop in the face and head. And that makes him a serious public safety hazard, imo.

And there is some evidence that Wilson DID hear the BOLO , right before he backed up to confront the two teens.

 

[popsicle]

Ask most any protester in Ferguson what they think about the fatal shooting of Michael Brown at the hands of Officer Darren Wilson, and you&#8217;ll get a ready response. But in the greater metro region, people are less willing to talk. From Clayton to Belleville, North St. Louis City to Kirkwood, as many people declined to talk about Ferguson as were willing to be interviewed.

Here is what those who spoke had to say.

http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/st-louisans-ferguson-painful-push-towards-discussion-about-race

 

[jggordo]

I am wondering if Baden was looking for someone local in that his license and accreditations are not for the state of MO. Much like Crump, the family attorney. I believe he is actually licensed to practice in FLA or wherever but probably not licensed in MO. Therefor he has local STL MO attorneys on board to "file" court requests and motions.

JMO's

 

[popsicle]

Alice Speri &#8207;@alicesperi 1m
#Ferguson protester told me a police officer passing him by held his hands up and said #DontShoot

 

[Linda7NJ]

It has been all over the news. The shot that killed him went through the top of his head meaning his head was down not straight up.
I have big issues with 6 bullets and I have big issues with MB's head being down when he is shot directly in the top of the head. It stands to reason that MB could have been going down already at that point from the other bullets.

There is something very wrong here. I can see a lot of possibilities here but so far most of them end with DW making a grave error in judgment. IMO

It takes less than two seconds to squeeze off multiple shots. Police are trained to shoot until the threat is STOPPED. If Briwns body was still coming, moving, falling, tripping, toward officer Wilson ..I can easily see those last two entering his head the way they did.


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[Irish_Eyes]

Tennessee v. Garner is the relevant Supreme Court ruling here. An excerpt from the holding:

The Tennessee statute is unconstitutional insofar as it authorizes the use of deadly force against, as in this case, an apparently unarmed, nondangerous fleeing suspect; such force may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others. Pp. 7-22. [471 U.S. 1, 2]

Bold and red by me. IANAL, but WaPo's Volokh Conspiracy blog (which is mostly lawyers and law-related stuff), pointed me to this.

This is why I think the prosecution has an uphill climb if certain facts turn out to be true. If in fact, DW hears over the radio about the strong arm robbery and realizes that the guy he just rolled past fits the subject description and actually appears to be holding the stolen merchandise, he has reason to be wary about confronting them. OTOH, as an officer for six years it's probably not remotely the first time he's had to use caution in approaching a suspect. I don't think if just at that point Brown had cut and run you could argue dangerous fleeing felon. Or you could, but the argument would be questionable. However if the officer was assaulted, if there was a struggle for his gun, I think without question you've now met that criteria.

Which means that even if the shot in the arm came from the back as some say, legally, it could well be justified. The only way it could be considered unjustified is if Brown had quit running and surrendered ("hands up"), and was then shot, but the witness accounts don't seem to support that. A criminal conviction means they must find that beyond reasonable doubt Brown was not attempting to flee and that beyond reasonable doubt the officer was not in reasonable fear of his own immediate safety or the safety of others in the community. I don't see them meeting that burden right now. But that's all just me, and like I said, I'm not a lawyer, so take it for what it's worth.

 

[popsicle]

Adam Levine &#8207;@cnnadam 7m
BREAKING: St. Louis County Police chief quick to apologize after inflamatory remarks by one of his cops surfaced. - @donlemon #Ferguson

Retweeted by Shimon Prokupecz
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Adam Levine &#8207;@cnnadam 15m
BREAKING: Officer involved in #Ferguson crowd control relieved of duty after previous inflamatory statements surfaced online - @donlemon
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[AuburnTxTiger]

Actually, that is not true. Read the Rehnquist decision, which is posted upthread. In fact, cops have MORE of a legal defense to protect themselves forcibly, because they are a target. Cops are shot on a routine basis, for no reason other than their being cops. So they can use lethal force when under assault because a 'reasonable assumption' may be that they are under imminent threat of death, unlike you or I.

I left this link open thinking it might come up again.
"The key question about Wilson’s killing on Aug. 9 is whether a reasonable officer with a similar background would have responded the same way."

25-Year-Old Supreme Court Case To Shape Ferguson Investigation

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/08...e-court-case-to-shape-ferguson-investigation/

 

[CoolJ]

I think there is a misunderstanding that the officer had some obligation to let the person who assaulted him get away and let some other officer handle it. That is his job. He was assaulted and it was up to him to go after both of them and place them under arrest. MB turning to walk back is where the problem is. We know from reports that officer said "Freeze". Only the officer can tell us what MB's demeanor was and what that officer felt was going to happen when MB reached him. The officer probably got a first hand look at a very angry MB when he bumped him with his door and MB reached inside to punch him. So what was MB's demeanor as he headed towards the officer. Only two people would know and one is dead. jmo

With all do respect Lambchop, there is a lot of assumptions in your post here:
1) that Wilson was assaulted - so far we only know that there was some sort of tussle at the car
2) that MB turned to walk back to where the problem was - maybe he was turning around to look at the guy who is shooting at him
3) who reported that the officer said freeze? I definitely missed that if true
4) MB was angry? Maybe it was Wilson that was angry? Maybe neither of them were angry at this point.. Maybe both... I sure don't know and if I said I did know it would be an assumption

 

[popsicle]

KMOX St. Louis News &#8207;@kmoxnews 1m
Fraternity offers to cover funeral costs for #MichaelBrown: http://cbsloc.al/1BLfbjm

 

[DebinGA]

He didnt attack those 2 guys because they didn't have anything he wanted at the time. Maybe if they had a box of cigarillos he would have.
.

~respectfully snipped to save space

And chain-saw wielding foresters are usually taller than 5'3" store clerks and less likely to ignore an unprovoked smackdown?

 

[CoolJ]

Dorian Johnson's lawyer said Dorian admitted he and Brown took part in the theft of cigars. When someone's lawyer cops to a crime, what more do you need?

True, but something still missing from those videos IMO