Trial Discussion Thread #51 - 14.11.9, Day 41 ~announcement of the verdict~

[Sarahlou]

Disgusting but completely expected is all I have to say about this verdict. Sad for Reeva's family.

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

Yes, but this doesn't mean that Reeva didn't scream before OP started firing! Has she misunderstood the evidence?

I think she misunderstood most of the evidence!

 

[ShadyLady]

SNIP

Also IMO --- I still think Oscar shot her in a rage ; and it's possible she was trying to leave him. Early on in the trial, it was stated that Reeva was dressed in her street clothes -- not pj's. Who gets dressed to leave while just going to use the bathroom ?
My god I hope he gets some prison time.
:moo:

Let's not forget the "locked" bathroom door and phone.....speaks volumes to me.

 

[Sherbert]

Since she is of the belief the gunshots were the first bangs heard, and the cricket bat the last set, she didn't see how the screams the witnesses heard could have been Reeva's.

I know, but I seem to remember that the State didn't agree that the shots came first. I though the possibility that some of the bat strikes came first was left open.

 

[mirage1]

This was a clear case of pre meditated murder imo. He clearly knew it was reeva and went to get his gun to kill her. Pretty simple really, and the evidence was quite over whelming considering his story was discredited by the prosecution.

 

[AJ_DS]

With Masipa's selective and creative interpretation of the evidence, one thing stands out as being a BIG problem…

- Masipa decided the bat strikes were the second set of bangs

- Masipa decided the bat strikes occurred moments after 3:17

… this means the gunshots were the first set of bangs and were heard ONLY by the Stipps

- Annette said that she heard the first shots around 3:02AM

… In Masipa's version, about 15 minutes separate the gunshots and the cricket bat strikes

What did OP testify as per what he did during those 15 minutes ?

Not much at all :

- He searched the bedroom briefly
- He tried to open the toilet door
- He shouted Help Help Help from balcony
- He put on his prosthetics
- He attempted to barge and kick the toilet door
- He grabbed the cricket bat from the bedroom
- He struck the toilet door with the bat

… as per OP's own testimony, he moved as quickly as he could and ran when he had his prosthetics on…

No reasonable person would say that this could possibly take 15 minutes… I challenge anybody to accomplish what OP said he did and take 15 minutes to do it… it's just not possible

- Furthermore, Dr Stipp said that immediately after the first set of shots, he heard a woman and man screaming

… at that time, OP did not know or even suspect that it could be Reeva in the toilet because he hadn't checked the bedroom yet !!!

One must hand it to Masipa for being able to overlooked and/or reject sooooo much damming evidence.

 

[Amster]

I would never want to be a witness during a trial in this persons courtroom! She seems to feel that witnesses are incompetent liars who try to match their testimony with what they've heard. Or, maybe it's just witnesses who contradict her pet, OP?

During the running around, yelling, shooting, etc., did OP ever say where he thought Reeva was?

 

[jacalyn]

Was it proven that time elapsed between the shots? If, so, would she have cried out after the first shot & he would have immediately realized it was HER behind the door.

Of course BUT if I remember correctly he said the gun shots (which he does not remember going off!!!?) were so loud he could not have heard her YELL, coupled with the fact (that's a good one saying FACT pertaining to Oscar LMAS), he said he was now also screaming like a girl. Surprised he did not throw in he was also farting loudly!

 

[Lyra500]

With Masipa's selective and creative interpretation of the evidence, one thing stands out as being a BIG problem…

- Masipa decided the bat strikes were the second set of bangs

- Masipa decided the bat strikes occurred moments after 3:17

… this means the gunshots were the first set of bangs and were heard ONLY by the Stipps

- Annette said that she heard the first shots around 3:02AM

… In Masipa's version, about 15 minutes separate the gunshots and the cricket bat strikes

What did OP testify as per what he did during those 15 minutes ?

Not much at all :

- He searched the bedroom briefly
- He tried to open the toilet door
- He shouted Help Help Help from balcony
- He put on his prosthetics
- He attempted to barge and kick the toilet door
- He grabbed the cricket bat from the bedroom
- He struck the toilet door with the bat

… as per OP's own testimony, he moved as quickly as he could and ran when he had his prosthetics on…

No reasonable person would say that this could possibly take 15 minutes… I challenge anybody to accomplish what OP said he did and take 15 minutes to do it… it's just not possible

- Furthermore, Dr Stipp said that immediately after the first set of shots, he heard a woman and man screaming

… at that time, OP did not know or even suspect that it could be Reeva in the toilet because he hadn't checked the bedroom yet !!!

One must hand to Masipa for being able to overlooked and/or reject sooooo much damming evidence.

It's OK though - we can discount all of this ear witness evidence because these eminent and well educated witnesses who came forward voluntarily were ALL mistaken. Simple!

And it doesn't matter that the 'proof' that OP screams like a woman was never ever produced, we will just assume it was him because he said it was and because he is such a credible witness - oh, wait a minute.......

 

[thewagesofsin]

When are people going to learn? Democracy doesn't work! How could he not have foreseen that he might hurt and kill another human being is ridiculous when he himself testified that he worried about ricochets off the shower wall hurting him? Hopefully he'll get a hard sentence on the other charges. Reeva is dead, someone must be accountable.

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

With Masipa's selective and creative interpretation of the evidence, one thing stands out as being a BIG problem…

- Masipa decided the bat strikes were the second set of bangs

- Masipa decided the bat strikes occurred moments after 3:17

… this means the gunshots were the first set of bangs and were heard ONLY by the Stipps

- Annette said that she heard the first shots around 3:02AM

… In Masipa's version, about 15 minutes separate the gunshots and the cricket bat strikes

What did OP testify as per what he did during those 15 minutes ?

Not much at all :

- He searched the bedroom briefly
- He tried to open the toilet door
- He shouted Help Help Help from balcony
- He put on his prosthetics
- He attempted to barge and kick the toilet door
- He grabbed the cricket bat from the bedroom
- He struck the toilet door with the bat

… as per OP's own testimony, he moved as quickly as he could and ran when he had his prosthetics on…

No reasonable person would say that this could possibly take 15 minutes… I challenge anybody to accomplish what OP said he did and take 15 minutes to do it… it's just not possible

- Furthermore, Dr Stipp said that immediately after the first set of shots, he heard a woman and man screaming

… at that time, OP did not know or even suspect that it could be Reeva in the toilet because he hadn't checked the bedroom yet !!!

One must hand it to Masipa for being able to overlooked and/or reject sooooo much damming evidence.

Unfortunately, Masipa threw out Mrs Stipp's testimony because Masipa thought she must have been mistaken.

 

[ShadyLady]

I would never want to be a witness during a trial in this persons courtroom! She seems to feel that witnesses are incompetent liars who try to match their testimony with what they've heard. Or, maybe it's just witnesses who contradict her pet, OP?

During the running around, yelling, shooting, etc., did OP ever say where he thought Reeva was?

"IF" OP cared one bit about Reeva's safety, all he had to do is roll over and touch her with his hand. Especially if he did not want her to get up when he did. He knew exactly where she was. IMO

When I "break" in my car, and my dog is in the front seat with me, I automatically put my hand on him so as to protect him. This is an automatic response, not even conscious.

 

[KarenUK]

Yes, but this doesn't mean that Reeva didn't scream before OP started firing! Has she misunderstood the evidence?

I dont think she misunderstood anything... She believes OP's account (despite the doubts she expressed over his testimony). Poor Oscar cried and seemed resmorseful - he is a middle class boy, what harm could be be?

 

[Hatfield]

JMO
Its pretty obvious to me that the biggest conflict with the judge decision is her considering/believing OP story that it was an intruder he was pursuing and ultimately shot 4 times without even seeing the person and confirming it was truly an intruder.

I am flabbergasted how she can believe him. The evidence and testimony to me seemed to overwhelmingly show that he was not telling the truth. If he was telling the truth, there should not have been so many contradictions and confusion with the testimony.

Even when I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, I found myself saying "no way" it could happen like that.
You would not leave your girlfriend without ensuring she was awake and they knew you were going to chase down an intruder. It just would not happen the way he tried to describe. No way no how.

You would awaken them and be sure:
(1)-That it was not your girlfriend that was in the other room making the noises
(2)-Let them know there is an intruder in house
(3)-Let them know you were fixing to go pursue them with a weapon and to stay put so they dont get hurt

OP own arguments about wanting to protect Reeva goes against him since the above is what a reasonable person would do if they truly were worried about their girlfriend.

I am beginning to agree with others that this case is being decided on purpose for reasons that have to do with his fame. Which is very sad. His story was not believable and the evidence showed it was not true.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

It's OK though - we can discount all of this ear witness evidence because these eminent and well educated witnesses who came forward voluntarily were ALL mistaken. Simple!

And it doesn't matter that the 'proof' that OP screams like a woman was never ever produced, we will just assume it was him because he said it was and because he is such credible witness - oh, wait a minute.......

That's right, and he's NEVER lied in the past and he's never tried to evade justice.

 

[soozieqtips]

There were plenty of us who questioned Judge Masipa's sympathetic treatment of OP when he was on the stand. So I don't know why someone implied it was just a 'few'. She adjourned almost every time there was a lip quiver, often asking him if he was feeling okay, while occasionally scolding Nel for seemingly being too tough on him, and even appearing to be concerned when OP rubbed his eyes.

Many of us voiced our feelings, and some posters suggested it was to make sure OP had no grounds for appeal. Many of us believed this (myself included), because the only other options were to believe that Masipa had been compromised, or was biased in OP's favour, or was just inept. I know which option I chose to believe, and I now think it was the wrong one.

 

[Really?]

I suspect he will be getting in trouble again very soon. Perhaps high-speed racing in his car, shooting guns, erratic behavior, etc..

Hehe, right?..... I am no swamee(sp)..... But I see a déjà vu .... Another OJ.

He will be incarcerated eventually. moo

 

[PrimeSuspect]

There were plenty of us who questioned Judge Masipa's sympathetic treatment of OP when he was on the stand. So I don't know why someone implied it was just a 'few'. She adjourned almost every time there was a lip quiver, often asking him if he was feeling okay, while occasionally scolding Nel for seemingly being too tough on him, and even appearing to be concerned when OP rubbed his eyes.

Many of us voiced our feelings, and some posters suggested it was to make sure OP had no grounds for appeal. Many of us believed this (myself included), because the only other options were to believe that Masipa had been compromised, or was biased in OP's favour, or was just inept. I know which option I chose to believe, and I now think it was the wrong one.

I'm with you, J Masipa always made me nervous but we put our faith in her and look where it got us. She's bought OP's story lock, stock and barrel and even agreed that everyone is lying.

 

[DebinGA]

I dont think she misunderstood anything... She believes OP's account (despite the doubts she expressed over his testimony). Poor Oscar cried and seemed resmorseful - he is a middle class boy, what harm could be be?

I think it's possible Uncle Arnold had the judge/assessors thoroughly investigated and knew what tales would push their buttons/resonate with them. Then Team Pistorius worked together to provide sob stories for OP to tell that couldn't be disproved, i.e. mom slept with a gun under her pillow, OP slept in a cupboard when frightened, etc. They also came up with stories to tell Dr. Voerster when interviewed. Ditto the psych eval peeps. I could be mistaken, but we haven't seen the full reports from the psychs, including the full statements from OP family and friends, have we? But the judge/assessors certainly have.

 

[Really?]

I wonder why Masipa ended proceedings so quickly today, without actually stating OP is guilty of CH, and after such a protracted lunch adjournment in which Roux and Nel were summoned to her chambers. Perhaps she needs time to do a bit of rewriting (I write, hopefully)!? It certainly seems strange to argue everything for CH and then not pronounce on it. I feel there'll be another "however..." starting tomorrow's proceedings.

No, this is not the case unfortunately.

Ever hear of a "cliff hanger"?

That is why things ended today when they did. Drama