MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #12

[Trackergd]

The pink circle is probably Jacobs confirmed prints, or as we call it LKP (Last Known Point) or PLS (Place Last Seen). I would hope that when this picture had been taken, all the print evidence had been photographed and casts taken. In general practice, only one experienced investigator should ever be in the print field so that his prints can be eliminated when reviewing the evidence. Too many cooks spoil the broth...or in this case, contaminate the field.

 

[Trino]

You must think both the FBI and local law enforcement are idiots. Of course, they have thought of this, and it has not panned out for them. The current focus appears to be on other abductions in the area. Do you feel these investigations should be ignored?

 

[ELOCsoul]

You must think both the FBI and local law enforcement are idiots. Of course, they have thought of this, and it has not panned out for them. The current focus appears to be on other abductions in the area. Do you feel these investigations should be ignored?

Not sure what post you're referring to here. You're right in that LE were not the idiots that they're sometimes made out to be. We have to keep in mind that LE doesn't say much, not even to defend themselves. They made mistakes in the beginning, sure. But they're still professionals and not morons.

Regarding the current focus, what makes you think that LE is focused on other abductions? I hope you're not buying into the media assertions that those cases were not looked into. The FBI was sitting on lake Koronis in 1990, watching for Hart to come back to his foster parents abandoned house. Patty made at least three appearances at the middle school in Paynesville in a few months following Jacob's abduction. I don't think it was a coincidence, or that she visited all the schools on the area as frequently.

 

[Trackergd]

You must think both the FBI and local law enforcement are idiots. Of course, they have thought of this, and it has not panned out for them. The current focus appears to be on other abductions in the area. Do you feel these investigations should be ignored?

I gather you have not read my profile. I have been doing this for 40 years, including a period of time as a Deputy Sheriff. I have also worked with the FBI, PSP and Secret Service on cases. The technology and understanding of foot prints has improved quite a bit since the 80's. In the 70's, foot print reading was almost a dead art. In the 80's, they were just relearning the skills and were doing little more than looking and making plaster casts.

And to your point, there are some LE departments that are very versed in print technology and others that know less than nothing. What pictures I have seen show the print field contaminated with people walking around on it, horse shoe prints and ATV prints. What would be your opinion were you to show up and be presented with a print field contaminated in this manner?

 

[human]

I gather you have not read my profile. I have been doing this for 40 years, including a period of time as a Deputy Sheriff. I have also worked with the FBI, PSP and Secret Service on cases. The technology and understanding of foot prints has improved quite a bit since the 80's. In the 70's, foot print reading was almost a dead art. In the 80's, they were just relearning the skills and were doing little more than looking and making plaster casts.

And to your point, there are some LE departments that are very versed in print technology and others that know less than nothing. What pictures I have seen show the print field contaminated with people walking around on it, horse shoe prints and ATV prints. What would be your opinion were you to show up and be presented with a print field contaminated in this manner?

With all due repect, the horses came on Sat, a week later. Sher posted that they took footprints at 1:00 AM.

Probably the photo that we see was a photo op. I doubt it news people were allowed on the site until much later. Why would they be?

The FBI in MN handled a huge kidnapping case. The Virginia Piper case. Super rich family. They had experience with kidnappings. This was the BAC and the FBI. They deal with Minnepolis, St. Paul. Plenty of crime there to investigate. Plus, Minnesota is always one of the top three states in education in the US.

We are not stupid in MN

 

[Jbrown324320]

he isn't saying we are stupid, he is saying some local agencies have more knowlege about the subject than others. It sure looks like the crime scene was contaminated to me- from the pictures and from DR's story.

 

[nmogren]

16 1/2 inches in Stearns County!?!? Whew!!!


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[Sasquatch321]

he isn't saying we are stupid, he is saying some local agencies have more knowlege about the subject than others. It sure looks like the crime scene was contaminated to me- from the pictures and from DR's story.

“As they were asking me where… about 15 horses were prancing about the area where the tracks had been all week! The detectives made NO effort to preserve the site…. they just didn’t seem to care much about it! I was thinking… do these guys know what they are doing???”

http://www.joybaker.com/2013/04/01/a-few-answers-many-more-questions/


So day to day for a week DR took notice that suspicious tire tracks were still there and never pointed that out to them? He just figured they didn't care?

 

[shergal]

“As they were asking me where… about 15 horses were prancing about the area where the tracks had been all week! The detectives made NO effort to preserve the site…. they just didn’t seem to care much about it! I was thinking… do these guys know what they are doing???”

http://www.joybaker.com/2013/04/01/a-few-answers-many-more-questions/


So day to day for a week DR took notice that suspicious tire tracks were still there and never pointed that out to them? He just figured they didn't care?

Strange that he didn't take pictures of the tracks and prints for his journals. JMO.

 

[jashrema]

The abduction scene was contaminated the second "Kevin" got there before the police. DR's place was contaminated immediately it seems by everyone plowing thru there, particularly DR!

 

[cGorg]

“As they were asking me where… about 15 horses were prancing about the area where the tracks had been all week! The detectives made NO effort to preserve the site…. they just didn’t seem to care much about it! I was thinking… do these guys know what they are doing???”

http://www.joybaker.com/2013/04/01/a-few-answers-many-more-questions/


So day to day for a week DR took notice that suspicious tire tracks were still there and never pointed that out to them? He just figured they didn't care?

Hard to argue your logic here. I've wondered about DR's statement. IMO, if the tracks were there, and DR's witnessing 2 cars plus "Kevin's" car then the tire track info is pretty important...to say the least. DR should have pointed this out if it was so important....and yet he drove his car over these tracks on his way to work the following morning-contaminating the scene yet again-as he did by foot the night before. But in defense of Trackergd....LE failed just the same by not securing the crime scene and preserving the print field.....even if it yielded minimal tracks. Minimal or Multiple tracks....it doesn't matter....it still tells a story.

 

[cGorg]

With all due repect, the horses came on Sat, a week later. Sher posted that they took footprints at 1:00 AM.

Probably the photo that we see was a photo op. I doubt it news people were allowed on the site until much later. Why would they be?

The FBI in MN handled a huge kidnapping case. The Virginia Piper case. Super rich family. They had experience with kidnappings. This was the BAC and the FBI. They deal with Minnepolis, St. Paul. Plenty of crime there to investigate. Plus, Minnesota is always one of the top three states in education in the US.

We are not stupid in MN

Don't be so defensive...if you're secure in your position...you don't need to shout to defend it. LE is not perfect...but they are not nincompoops either....they're people. People make mistakes. DR walked "up the hill" and conversed with Officer Bruce Bechtold....right there he contaminated the scene walking on the driveway. Whose fault is that? IDK. But early in the investigation it may be that LE did not realize that there was a possibility that the crime scene could extend beyond the intersection of 16th + DR's driveway and so focused only on the immediate area...not thinking of the possibility of the potentiality of the crime scene being extended. Just because some of us here(with 20/20 hindsight) question LE's handling of the site doesn't mean we're throwing LE out with the bath water(investigating the crime scene in the black of night would not be an easy task)....we're simply processing the info...and thinking out loud via Websleuths.

 

[cGorg]

That was an instinctive reaction as the moment unfolded, it was not a conclusion they made, or anything they considered after they realized the seriousness of the situation.

(going back aways in the thread....)With all due respect, I think we need to move on from Feeney and Kevin. Feeney was thoroughly vetted, twice. Kevin we thoroughly checked out as well.

So Feeney is out. How has "Kevin" been thoroughly checked out? I've compared his 'testimony' on Joy's blog with Google Earth and the physical logistics...his statements do seem plausible.....but the one question I have is: why did he wait 14 years to come forward with the fact that he had laid the most important tire track in MN history?

 

[Trino]

Perhaps previous investigators fit the category of my previous post re: FBI and LE are not stupid. However, my post referred to today's investigators not being stupid. I think they have thought of just about everything that's been posted over the years on WS, plus I believe they have more information than we know. Maybe, since there's now focus on other abductions in nearby cities, they have turned the corner on the one individual who they really have not legally connected to the crime. IMO DR should either be charged or exonerated with an apology. This has gone on long enough.

 

[tinner007]

The Stearns county sheriffs office has a history of ignoring/overlooking evidence on crime scenes. I know this first hand. Also know first hand how they seem to get stuck in tunnel vision mode and seem to ignore other avenues. I've also been on the receiving end of their interrogation practices. Dan's story on the way he was questioned is spot on with mine....grabbing straws and not listening to anything one has to say. Investigators today I realize are not the same as in 1989, but when sheriffs come up through the ranks over the years, inherited "bad habits" follow. Too bad the residents of Stearns county blew their opportunity to bring in a new set of eyes and ideas this past election and decided to stick with the same old same old talk and do nothing for the next 4 years with Sheriff Assumption.

 

[nmogren]

The Stearns county sheriffs office has a history of ignoring/overlooking evidence on crime scenes. I know this first hand. Also know first hand how they seem to get stuck in tunnel vision mode and seem to ignore other avenues. I've also been on the receiving end of their interrogation practices. Dan's story on the way he was questioned is spot on with mine....grabbing straws and not listening to anything one has to say. Investigators today I realize are not the same as in 1989, but when sheriffs come up through the ranks over the years, inherited "bad habits" follow. Too bad the residents of Stearns county blew their opportunity to bring in a new set of eyes and ideas this past election and decided to stick with the same old same old talk and do nothing for the next 4 years with Sheriff Assumption.

The Stearns County Sheriffs Office is more than 1 person. There are many agencies involved, not only Stearns County.


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[tinner007]

And what agencies might those be? The FBI and BCA play a limited roll from what I understand and have to be asked for assistance when needed. I've dealt with all 3 organizations, results only happened when the FBI got involved in my situation. I also lived in this neighborhood on October 22nd 1989, IMO, they need to focus on something other than their "POI" scapegoat.

 

[nmogren]

And what agencies might those be? The FBI and BCA play a limited roll from what I understand and have to be asked for assistance when needed. I've dealt with all 3 organizations, results only happened when the FBI got involved in my situation. I also lived in this neighborhood on October 22nd 1989, IMO, they need to focus on something other than their "POI" scapegoat.

The FBI does not play a limited role in a child kidnapping. As far as focusing on a sole person, they have intensely looked at hundreds over 25 years.


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[tinner007]

Ok. What I'm getting at is Stearns is the lead agency. No other agency has anyone assigned full time to take an in depth look into things. In Saint Cloud there is only 2 FBI agents, so having an agent full time won't happen. And in my personal discussions with the FBI in Saint Cloud and Minneapolis, it seems they're way too understaffed. As far as focusing on a sole person, seems we only hear about one, but no reason why. Sounds very familiar to me. There's a reason for silence and it's not because they don't want a suspect to know they're on to him/her after 25 years. With Stearns as the lead, forums such as this are the best hope for the missing.

 

[HEY YOU!]

Hard to argue your logic here. I've wondered about DR's statement. IMO, if the tracks were there, and DR's witnessing 2 cars plus "Kevin's" car then the tire track info is pretty important...to say the least. DR should have pointed this out if it was so important....and yet he drove his car over these tracks on his way to work the following morning-contaminating the scene yet again-as he did by foot the night before. But in defense of Trackergd....LE failed just the same by not securing the crime scene and preserving the print field.....even if it yielded minimal tracks. Minimal or Multiple tracks....it doesn't matter....it still tells a story.

Let's not forget that the crime scene was unsecured from 3am to 6am. The perp could have come back during those hours and tampered with the tire & footprints...wiping some away and leaving one pressed down near the newest tire track. Also regarding Kevin not coming forward, news reports immediately put out a sketch and said Jacob was abducted and driven from the scene. Kevin may have thought cops knew somewhat who the guy was due to that sketch that actually had nothing to do with Jacob's abduction since the perp was wearing a mask that covered his entire face. It seemed like the cops knew more than they really did at the time since they went with the car being a part of the abduction right away. Maybe he didn't know that there were no other strange tracks on that driveway until he came forward years later.