GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #5

[iamnotagolem]

I think we can all agree that it has been stated repeatedly that the lid was on.

I'd like to know if anything happened after November 2014 as far as maintenance to the septic tank or something, that would have made removing the layer of sod necessary, exposing the lid. Because until that point, the lid would have had to been accessed by using a shovel to cut through the layer of sod/grass on top of it.

Has anyone heard of any such maintenance having been done between November 2014 and March of this year?

I haven't, but since when they drained the tank to retrieve Noah's body I believe it was stated that it hadn't been emptied in 15 years. Off to find a link...

ETA: I can't find the MSM so ignore me

 

[courtneyb]

It might not have been a drug overdose, but whatever it was he didn't close the lid of that septic tank by himself

For me, the reason I keep going back to an overdose is because I don't want to believe that one or both of his parents intentionally killed him, or were physically disciplining and it led to his death. It's as simple as that for me. I think it is being viewed as I'm trying to make the parents out to be worse than they have been confirmed to be.

That's not the case at all. The lid being on... I cannot reconcile with Noah accidentally falling in. So that leads me to the conclusion (MY opinion) that he was placed there.

Having come to that conclusion, I actually am being soft on the parents, trying to stick with and hoping for a scenario where Noah's death was not intentional. Because I want to believe that his home life wasn't ALWAYS terrible. I don't want to believe that he was subject to routine physical abuse, that he may have been scared of his parents. That would make it even more unbearable to think about.

I hope that explains it well to everyone that thinks I'm waiting to catch a greyhound with my pitchfork and torch. The outcome is terrible already, I'm just hoping that each detail that comes out doesn't indicate that Noah didn't have a lot of happy times in his life too.


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[quietwun]

I am confused. Yes, I have read everything but am fallible and might not have understood or remembered everything.

I do not see how Noah could have been left in the house with his sister that day. That he fell into the tank seems less and less likely.

If, by whatever means, he died or was incapacitated and was placed in the septic tank, that would have had to have happened the previous night under cover of darkness. Something fatal happening that morning does not seem plausible because there was no opportunity to move his body. I suppose in the gap before calling LE..but I don't know where and how.

How many layers of lies are there? What don't I see?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I haven't, but since when they drained the tank to retrieve Noah's body I believe it was stated that it hadn't been emptied in 15 years. Off to find a link...

ETA: I can't find the MSM so ignore me

IIRC, it hadn't been emptied for 5 years.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I think we can all agree that it has been stated repeatedly that the lid was on.

I'd like to know if anything happened after November 2014 as far as maintenance to the septic tank or something, that would have made removing the layer of sod necessary, exposing the lid. Because until that point, the lid would have had to been accessed by using a shovel to cut through the layer of sod/grass on top of it.

Has anyone heard of any such maintenance having been done between November 2014 and March of this year?

I don't know where it is coming from there was a layer of sod/grass on top of the lid. A reporter saw it that way 24 hours after LE recovered his body, but no one has verified there was grass over the lid prior.

 

[Schmaley]

Can someone lead me to the court docs that have been released? The only media I see says they were left home alone and it is basically the same article written over and over-which is great to hear new information but now I have read it like a fafillion times.

Did someone say there was something that indicated "forced ingestion"? Come on! Help me out! I have been searching and nothing, nada, niche.

Also, Trestip, I can't help but wonder if you are feeling defensive because you have a lot of empathy or maybe feel like you have made mistakes that could ultimately have been dangerous (because who hasn't) and feel the need to defend because you really want to think they are good just inexperienced parents who really effed up but it is so much more than that. I felt that way too until they were charged. I imagined the mom must have been working crazy long hours and just wanted to nap lightly on the couch with her son next to her watching cartoons while she held the baby who had been up all night (because my babies were up all night forever) and maybe under stress because her husband is working weekends and times are tight and the weather is awful and ohmygosh I have had so many mornings where I have felt like 30 minutes of relaxing could energize me for the whole dang day. But now we know some facts. We know they were using drugs. We know they left their infant and possibly their 5 year old (because we don't know when he passed) alone and even stopped at a gas station. We know the baby was suffering-Physically. That is confirmed-baby physically suffering-that is not speculation. It is one of the facts we have here. She wasn't removed because she was alone, they hadn't even found Noah yet then to find him in the dirtiest, scuzziest foul place? To find that sweet little body in the worst place imaginable. I truly feel this wasn't bad luck and I encourage you to really dig deep inside yourself and see if you really feel these actions are worth defending? I just can't justify any of that. As hard as I try I can't pull out empathy for that.

 

[vasportsmom]

I think the deal about the tank was that the sanitation worker said there was 3 feet of sludge and sludge builds at a rate of a foot per year so we assumed that meant it hadn't been emptied in 15 years. As it turned out the tank wasn't even 15 years old plus it was a multi-family tank so that threw the numbers off.


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[vasportsmom]

Can someone lead me to the court docs that have been released? The only media I see says they were left home alone and it is basically the same article written over and over-which is great to hear new information but now I have read it like a fafillion times.

Did someone say there was something that indicated "forced ingestion"? Come on! Help me out! I have been searching and nothing, nada, niche.

Also, Trestip, I can't help but wonder if you are feeling defensive because you have a lot of empathy or maybe feel like you have made mistakes that could ultimately have been dangerous (because who hasn't) and feel the need to defend because you really want to think they are good just inexperienced parents who really effed up but it is so much more than that. I felt that way too until they were charged. I imagined the mom must have been working crazy long hours and just wanted to nap lightly on the couch with her son next to her watching cartoons while she held the baby who had been up all night (because my babies were up all night forever) and maybe under stress because her husband is working weekends and times are tight and the weather is awful and ohmygosh I have had so many mornings where I have felt like 30 minutes of relaxing could energize me for the whole dang day. But now we know some facts. We know they were using drugs. We know they left their infant and possibly their 5 year old (because we don't know when he passed) alone and even stopped at a gas station. We know the baby was suffering-Physically. That is confirmed-baby physically suffering-that is not speculation. It is one of the facts we have here. She wasn't removed because she was alone, they hadn't even found Noah yet then to find him in the dirtiest, scuzziest foul place? To find that sweet little body in the worst place imaginable. I truly feel this wasn't bad luck and I encourage you to really dig deep inside yourself and see if you really feel these actions are worth defending? I just can't justify any of that. As hard as I try I can't pull out empathy for that.

I don't think any court documents have been unsealed. The "forced ingestion" comes from reading the statutes that they have been charged under. If you can look in the last thread where the arrests were announced those posts are there.


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[ANonyMs]

I think we can all agree that it has been stated repeatedly that the lid was on.

I'd like to know if anything happened after November 2014 as far as maintenance to the septic tank or something, that would have made removing the layer of sod necessary, exposing the lid. Because until that point, the lid would have had to been accessed by using a shovel to cut through the layer of sod/grass on top of it.

Has anyone heard of any such maintenance having been done between November 2014 and March of this year?

I wondered about this, too.

On the one hand, we have Orlando Salinas's post that the two men who ran in to the yard knew every back yard on Highland Rd. Having dealt with several septics in my time, I believe that they could quickly identify where the septic mound was visually. But I still feel like there had to be some *reason* they *immediately* went for the septic. Maybe they knew work had been going on there?

On the other hand, unless it is a very small repair to one of the pipes, any repairs to the septic would usually require draining the tank first.While we know that the tank was shared between the mobile home and the white house and was relatively small for that number of bedrooms, if it had been drained anytime between November, 2014 and March, 2015, I don't see how it would have filled back up THAT fast. The sanitation worker said he had to pump out half it's contents before seeing Noah. I guess it is possible but it seems unlikely.

But then I have a hard time thinking that these two parents, with the time frame they had, would even conjure up the idea to hide him there and be able to execute it in the time they had. With it's proximity to the white house, I would think someone would have heard/seen the digging.

Have I missed it or do we know if they white house is/was currently occupied? I don't recall anything being said about the current tenants there.

 

[Schmaley]

I don't think any court documents have been unsealed. The "forced ingestion" comes from reading the statutes that they have been charged under. If you can look in the last thread where the arrests were announced those posts are there.


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Gotcha. Gracias.

 

[vasportsmom]

Gotcha. Gracias.

If you can't find them yell and I will search for them as soon as I get the kids fed. Sorry to be of so little help now.


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[ANonyMs]

I don't know where it is coming from there was a layer of sod/grass on top of the lid. A reporter saw it that way 24 hours after LE recovered his body, but no one has verified there was grass over the lid prior.

Per Courtney's cousin who lived in the white house until November, 2014. So we don't know if it was covered with a layer of sod on March 22, 2015 but we do know that it was covered with sod in November, 2014.

 

[ANonyMs]

Can someone lead me to the court docs that have been released? The only media I see says they were left home alone and it is basically the same article written over and over-which is great to hear new information but now I have read it like a fafillion times.

Did someone say there was something that indicated "forced ingestion"? Come on! Help me out! I have been searching and nothing, nada, niche.

Also, Trestip, I can't help but wonder if you are feeling defensive because you have a lot of empathy or maybe feel like you have made mistakes that could ultimately have been dangerous (because who hasn't) and feel the need to defend because you really want to think they are good just inexperienced parents who really effed up but it is so much more than that. I felt that way too until they were charged. I imagined the mom must have been working crazy long hours and just wanted to nap lightly on the couch with her son next to her watching cartoons while she held the baby who had been up all night (because my babies were up all night forever) and maybe under stress because her husband is working weekends and times are tight and the weather is awful and ohmygosh I have had so many mornings where I have felt like 30 minutes of relaxing could energize me for the whole dang day. But now we know some facts. We know they were using drugs. We know they left their infant and possibly their 5 year old (because we don't know when he passed) alone and even stopped at a gas station. We know the baby was suffering-Physically. That is confirmed-baby physically suffering-that is not speculation. It is one of the facts we have here. She wasn't removed because she was alone, they hadn't even found Noah yet then to find him in the dirtiest, scuzziest foul place? To find that sweet little body in the worst place imaginable. I truly feel this wasn't bad luck and I encourage you to really dig deep inside yourself and see if you really feel these actions are worth defending? I just can't justify any of that. As hard as I try I can't pull out empathy for that.

We don't have the court docs, you are correct. While MSM are not allowed to have cameras in the courtroom, reporters covered the hearings and both live tweeted as well as then published the information in both print newspaper and broadcast tv news.

 

[lonetraveler]

I am confused. Yes, I have read everything but am fallible and might not have understood or remembered everything.

I do not see how Noah could have been left in the house with his sister that day. That he fell into the tank seems less and less likely.

If, by whatever means, he died or was incapacitated and was placed in the septic tank, that would have had to have happened the previous night under cover of darkness. Something fatal happening that morning does not seem plausible because there was no opportunity to move his body. I suppose in the gap before calling LE..but I don't know where and how.

How many layers of lies are there? What don't I see?

I agree. The landlord lived very close to the mobile home and other people as well. I do not believe that opening the septic tank and putting a child into it could have been unnoticed in the daylight hours. IMO what happened to Noah happened the evening or night before and he ended up in the septic tank at that time.

 

[lonetraveler]

Can someone lead me to the court docs that have been released? The only media I see says they were left home alone and it is basically the same article written over and over-which is great to hear new information but now I have read it like a fafillion times.

Did someone say there was something that indicated "forced ingestion"? Come on! Help me out! I have been searching and nothing, nada, niche.

Also, Trestip, I can't help but wonder if you are feeling defensive because you have a lot of empathy or maybe feel like you have made mistakes that could ultimately have been dangerous (because who hasn't) and feel the need to defend because you really want to think they are good just inexperienced parents who really effed up but it is so much more than that. I felt that way too until they were charged. I imagined the mom must have been working crazy long hours and just wanted to nap lightly on the couch with her son next to her watching cartoons while she held the baby who had been up all night (because my babies were up all night forever) and maybe under stress because her husband is working weekends and times are tight and the weather is awful and ohmygosh I have had so many mornings where I have felt like 30 minutes of relaxing could energize me for the whole dang day. But now we know some facts. We know they were using drugs. We know they left their infant and possibly their 5 year old (because we don't know when he passed) alone and even stopped at a gas station. We know the baby was suffering-Physically. That is confirmed-baby physically suffering-that is not speculation. It is one of the facts we have here. She wasn't removed because she was alone, they hadn't even found Noah yet then to find him in the dirtiest, scuzziest foul place? To find that sweet little body in the worst place imaginable. I truly feel this wasn't bad luck and I encourage you to really dig deep inside yourself and see if you really feel these actions are worth defending? I just can't justify any of that. As hard as I try I can't pull out empathy for that.

This article describes the charges.
http://www.roanoke.com/news/crime/p...8-b5f5-52697738366e.html#.VS-qnBGdyUY.twitter

 

[JeannaT]

Well great that the court has asked that the tox lab results be sped up.

 

[Schmaley]

Well great that the court has asked that the tox lab results be sped up.

I think the autopsy will still be awhile before its disclosed. They will want to cover all bases and get many expert opinions before publishing anything with finality.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

From all accounts, Noah seemed like a very bright resourceful little guy. I would think if something had happened to him (or his sister) in that 15 minutes that his parents were gone, he might have called 911 (but now I wonder if they even had a house phone as so many don't due to cell phones). Or I could picture him running to the neighbors for help, so I believe he was incapacitated in some way where that was not possible. JMO

 

[Luvrosco]

I think poor Noah died the night before or very early before dawn. I don't think he was put in the tank during daylight hours. I don't believe for one minute that he wound up in the septic tank accidentally.

 

[Dogface]

Just wanted to say I am still here, just not posting much at the moment...I just can't post about stuff being discussed without getting a TO. But I will say, when an accident happens, you don't lie to cops to CYA, especially when it comes to your children. And regardless of Noah's death, we know there are charges for the baby, which seems to me to point out that these were not parents who made one stupid decision. These are, according to the very serious charges, parents who willfully neglected their kids. And thankfully, I'm not a juror member, I do not have to support innocent until proven guilty. The guilt for me lies with the fact their other child was immediately taken from them.