ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #8

[babyback]

In the search recap that I posted above, I find it really really odd that the dogs kept coming back to camp. That's where DeOrr's scent would have been most powerful, and not because he had been at the camp so much, as because that's where his family's vehicles were, along with his blankie, sippy cup, and anything else that had been handled by him. Doesn't help anyone much but it's quite interesting to me.

 

[Mickshawn]

@ 1:25

http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/911...toddler-released-315660311.html?tab=video&c=y

@1:01 "The dogs picked up a scent near the water at Stone Creek"

Is that the name of the creek running out of the reservoir? I don't remember hearing this before...only that they picked up a scent at the Reservoir.

 

[gliving]

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/16/search-deorr-lemhi-no-trace/30262877/

Listen to this video describing how the floor of the reservoir is full of deep silt. I guess one can see to the bottom easily but under that is a deep muddy mess.

 

[travelbug]

IMO, the staring old man is a red herring. If you want to talk about eerie, how about that DeOrr was being served fries at an establishment owned by one of two RSO's in the area just two hours before he disappeared. Or, how about the guy who came along on their camping trip? Yikes.

I think the mom is grasping at straws because the PI is pressing her to remember anything, anyone, no matter how seemingly irrelevant, that could point at some kind of possibility of abduction and take the suspicion away from those at the campsite.

Anyway, was the old man even staring? If so, was it because DeOrr is a cute, beautiful boy who might bring joy to people? Or would it be because the boy was filthy?

(NOTE: Though DK says the store clerk who said the boy with the man in a black truck was filthy had the wrong time, DK admits the family went to the store, and PI says they stopped at the store after the cafe.)

Hopefully the old staring man remembers seeing the family, or someone at the cafe (even the RSO) remembers seeing the family, because, as suspicions grow, it would be beneficial to the parents that someone unrelated to their camping trip could vouch for when and if the toddler was seen in town that day.

Here's what I have trouble understanding. They are eating at the only restaurant in the tiny little town, where everyone knows everyone else - so why didn't someone come forward with the information about seeing the family, WITH Deorr, at the beginning of the search? Or was the confusion because it wasn't the store clerk who saw him. Perhaps it was the RSO who works at the restaurant. If so, why did she only mention a man and a filthy, bawling toddler instead of saying the family was there eating fries, etc.

 

[babyback]

@1:01 "The dogs picked up a scent near the water at Stone Creek"

Is that the name of the creek running out of the reservoir? I don't remember hearing this before...only that they picked up a scent at the Reservoir.

I'm thinking it's the same, Stone Creek Reservoir.
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/15/missing-boy-deorr-search-dogs/30209081/

 

[kammiemc]

@1:01 "The dogs picked up a scent near the water at Stone Creek"

Is that the name of the creek running out of the reservoir? I don't remember hearing this before...only that they picked up a scent at the Reservoir.

Stone Creek Reservoir

 

[jmcgladr]

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/16/search-deorr-lemhi-no-trace/30262877/

Listen to this video describing how the floor of the reservoir is full of deep silt. I guess one can see to the bottom easily but under that is a deep muddy mess.

Even so, if Deorr's body was in the water, it would have surfaced some time ago.

 

[kammiemc]

In the search recap that I posted above, I find it really really odd that the dogs kept coming back to camp. That's where DeOrr's scent would have been most powerful, and not because he had been at the camp so much, as because that's where his family's vehicles were, along with his blankie, sippy cup, and anything else that had been handled by him. Doesn't help anyone much but it's quite interesting to me.

I think that's why people are at such a loss. The tracking dogs should have been able to follow a trail where DeOrr wandered off. Or was taken. Even had he been taken by a wild animal, he would have brushed against rocks and grass while the animal dragged him. I don't know if tracking dogs were used in little Jerold's case, but I wonder if they picked up on a scent and direction. It really does seem like he just vanished.

 

[kammiemc]

Here's what I have trouble understanding. They are eating at the only restaurant in the tiny little town, where everyone knows everyone else - so why didn't someone come forward with the information about seeing the family, WITH Deorr, at the beginning of the search? Or was the confusion because it wasn't the store clerk who saw him. Perhaps it was the RSO who works at the restaurant. If so, why did she only mention a man and a filthy, bawling toddler instead of saying the family was there eating fries, etc.

Is it possible that they did and LE just did not make it public? LE must have also known that they arrived on Thurs eve and that was never made public, as far as I know, until the PI stated it and the grandma on the news's FB page. ??

 

[renarde]

IMO, the staring old man is a red herring. If you want to talk about eerie, how about that DeOrr was being served fries at an establishment owned by one of two RSO's in the area just two hours before he disappeared. Or, how about the guy who came along on their camping trip? Yikes.

I think the mom is grasping at straws because the PI is pressing her to remember anything, anyone, no matter how seemingly irrelevant, that could point at some kind of possibility of abduction and take the suspicion away from those at the campsite.

Anyway, was the old man even staring? If so, was it because DeOrr is a cute, beautiful boy who might bring joy to people? Or would it be because the boy was filthy?

(NOTE: Though DK says the store clerk who said the boy with the man in a black truck was filthy had the wrong time, DK admits the family went to the store, and PI says they stopped at the store after the cafe.)

Hopefully the old staring man remembers seeing the family, or someone at the cafe (even the RSO) remembers seeing the family, because, as suspicions grow, it would be beneficial to the parents that someone unrelated to their camping trip could vouch for when and if the toddler was seen in town that day.

I don't think we know where they got fries, or who served them. We don't know that they ever made contact with the female RSO or even entered her establishment at the Silver Dollar.

 

[dek]

Originally Posted by gliving
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local...race/30262877/

Listen to this video describing how the floor of the reservoir is full of deep silt. I guess one can see to the bottom easily but under that is a deep muddy mess.



"Even so, if Deorr's body was in the water, it would have surfaced some time ago."

They used advanced sonar also.

Cadaver dogs led law enforcement directly to the reservoir but Bowerman said unrelated cremated remains dumped into the water during the search likely prompted the canines' interest. A search of the reservoir using advanced sonar equipment yielded nothing, he said.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/20/searches-reservoir-wolf-den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/​

 

[loreet]

Question: Can cremains be tested for DNA?

I was so curious about this that I researched and am going to answer my own question. Forgive me for not citing sources. I am NOT a certified funeral home/crematorium operator, nor do I have any affiliation with any DNA testing facility.

The standard google/yahoo/funeral home answer is that the high temperatures used during a proper cremation will destroy DNA. If there are bones or teeth surviving that process, those can be tested for DNA. Often following the high temperature cremation itself, an additional pulverizing process will be used on larger bone and teeth fragments after the actual high temperature cremation occurs and this destroys or may (further) contaminate any remaining DNA.

Of note, it is not uncommon for a funeral home/crematorium to have older or slightly malfunctioning equipment and temperatures may not be as high as necessary to destroy all DNA. Contamination is another concern with testing cremains for DNA – the cremains handling and pulverizing processes are not regulated in the way that forensic evidence handling would require, so DNA from employees of funeral homes, crematorium workers, family members, etc. may well contaminate the ashes.

That said, apparently this is a hot topic! Funeral homes and DNA testing facilities get asked this question fairly often because people want to be sure they have the ashes of their loved one (as opposed to someone else's loved one), or for identification of unknown persons, or if there are outstanding paternity questions one cannot determine in other ways. There are research papers available online discussing testing processes of cremains for usable DNA, and I am sure there are additional papers available in trade, forensic, and academic journals. The research is ongoing and there is hope for progress in the future as advances in technology are made.

 

[whoodah]

http://www.ghostsofamerica.com/8/Idaho_Leadore_ghost_sightings.html

Hi..my first post. It's a stange one, but thought I would post because it could possibly point to mountain men living in area. if one is to believe the stories...

 

[babyback]

Originally Posted by gliving
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local...race/30262877/

Listen to this video describing how the floor of the reservoir is full of deep silt. I guess one can see to the bottom easily but under that is a deep muddy mess.



"Even so, if Deorr's body was in the water, it would have surfaced some time ago."

They used advanced sonar also.

Cadaver dogs led law enforcement directly to the reservoir but Bowerman said unrelated cremated remains dumped into the water during the search likely prompted the canines' interest. A search of the reservoir using advanced sonar equipment yielded nothing, he said.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/20/searches-reservoir-wolf-den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/
​

Side Scan Sonar is often used in searches and has been very effective.
http://gralston1.home.mindspring.com/Sidescan.html

 

[kammiemc]

I don't think we know where they got fries, or who served them. We don't know that they ever made contact with the female RSO or even entered her establishment at the Silver Dollar.

I understood that the Silver Dollar Cafe was the only game in town and that the RSO was owner. Is that false? Is there another place to eat fries? Is the RSO not the owner of the Silver Dollar Cafe?

For clarity, I don't/didn't claim to know who served them, nor did I say they made contact with the RSO. My point is, if the PI is looking for eerie things/coincidences in this case, a staring old man would be way down the list. Just the fact that the RSO (presumed owner of what appears to be the local food destination, presumably where the family stopped) was on MSM in the kitchen talking about the how a child abductor wouldn't make a trip up the road is eerier--to me

ETA: BTW, have you checked out the street view of the the Silver Dollar Cafe and took a little tour through town? There is not much going on. Just a few buildings. I think it is VERY likely this is the place where people go to eat cooked food.
Link: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Silver+Dollar+Bar+%26+Restaurant/@44.6804401,-113.3576642,3a,75y,35h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s9RmaeXGjCA6uuvj_aGlWkQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26output%3Dthumbnail%26thumb%3D2%26panoid%3D9RmaeXGjCA6uuvj_aGlWkQ%26w%3D374%26h%3D75%26yaw%3D35%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D120%26ll%3D44.680440,-113.357664!7i3328!8i1664!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x4b9926b526ebab69!6m1!1e1

Also, someone might stare at them because they might literally be the only people in town besides those who work there!! There is not a soul to be seen on the streetview tour.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

http://www.ghostsofamerica.com/8/Idaho_Leadore_ghost_sightings.html

Hi..my first post. It's a stange one, but thought I would post because it could possibly point to mountain men living in area. if one is to believe the stories...

:wagon: Whoodah!

:seeya:

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I understood that the Silver Dollar Cafe was the only game in town and that the RSO was owner. Is that false? Is there another place to eat fries? Is the RSO not the owner of the Silver Dollar Cafe?

For clarity, I don't/didn't claim to know who served them, nor did I say they made contact with the RSO. My point is, if the PI is looking for eerie things/coincidences in this case, a staring old man would be way down the list. Just the fact that the RSO (presumed owner of what appears to be the local food destination, presumably where the family stopped) was on MSM in the kitchen talking about the how a child abductor wouldn't make a trip up the road is eerier--to me.

Yep... she is an "expert" in that area... In a sense... :what:

 

[babyback]

Yep... she is an "expert" in that area... In a sense... :what:

Oop sigh.....

 

[renarde]

I understood that the Silver Dollar Cafe was the only game in town and that the RSO was owner. Is that false? Is there another place to eat fries? Is the RSO not the owner of the Silver Dollar Cafe?

For clarity, I don't/didn't claim to know who served them, nor did I say they made contact with the RSO. My point is, if the PI is looking for eerie things/coincidences in this case, a staring old man would be way down the list. Just the fact that the RSO (presumed owner of what appears to be the local food destination, presumably where the family stopped) was on MSM in the kitchen talking about the how a child abductor wouldn't make a trip up the road is eerier--to me.

There's the Silver Dollar Bar and Restaurant, owned by the RSO, and then there is the Stage Stop store (combo gas station / convenience store). A lady store clerk was mentioned in the interview with Nate at East Idaho News. Apparently this store clerk might have seen DeOrr.

 

[babyback]

Well she's the one who gave the tip about the Friday evening siting am I correct? So, we could assume, (which I don't like to do) that she had to have had to lay eyes on DeOrr, or she wouldn't have known what the child looked like to be able to spot another child matching the discription? Or was she shown a photo of DeOrr and asked if she had seen him? I hope I explained that well enough, I may not have.