GUILTY UK - Kayleigh Haywood, 15, Ibstock, Leicestershire, 13 November 2015 - #1

[sar2them1984]

do you mean messages agreeing before, or after, the meet up?

Sorry, messages showing that kayleigh was consenting or had consented to sexual activity

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[edgedweller]

It is a school though. It's not an adult college, despite the name. Locals would know that.

Ibstock Community College

Leicestershire has quite an unusual secondary school system - community colleges have children from ages 14-18 (and members of the community can take courses there)

 

[Ironside]

So yesterday the consensus was LH was the baddy because he liked horror movies but now SB is the bad man and LH isn't totally evil anymore - I wonder if how their families reacted has influenced peoples thoughts?

I really think they were both involved in it but there is only enough evidence for SB to get a murder charge right now - forensics such as blood in his house perhaps. I think LH maybe "confessed" to meeting her and having consensual (not really as she is u16) touchy feely stuff but is denying any involvement in the murder. They'll probably both get more charges chucked at them once all the evidence becomes clearer.

Doesn't really make sense that LH would just be grooming a young girl but then out of the blue his close friend ends up killing her, does it?

 

[Edinlass]

Well, well, well....I'm eating my words. I really thought LH was the main perpetrator, it just shows you never to judge a book by its cover. Although he is still charged with inexplicable things tbh. Less than 5 hours ago it was LH seen as the bad guy and tables have swiftly turned to SB, they are BOTH BAD men in my book.

<modsnip>

How things can change tho, the most normal (going by social media) is infact the murderer. LH's charges sound as if he groomed her through FB (speaking to a minor, asking to meet up would, I assume, come under grooming) maybe brought her back to the house, consent was given by Kayleigh and on the Saturday something went horribly wrong when SB became involved. Surely if it was a set-up LH would also be done with murder also or along those lines.

I am shocked to say the least & await further evidence because I think there's a lot more to come. Things do not add up.

Poor Kayleigh, RIP sweet girl. Free from the evil of today.

 

[Tortoise]

So yesterday the consensus was LH was the baddy because he liked horror movies but now SB is the bad man and LH isn't totally evil anymore - I wonder if how their families reacted has influenced peoples thoughts?

I really think they were both involved in it but there is only enough evidence for SB to get a murder charge right now - forensics such as blood in his house perhaps. I think LH maybe "confessed" to meeting her and having consensual (not really as she is u16) touchy feely stuff but is denying any involvement in the murder. They'll probably both get more charges chucked at them once all the evidence becomes clearer.

Doesn't really make sense that LH would just be grooming a young girl but then out of the blue his close friend ends up killing her, does it?

Why not?

Maybe LH has a watertight alibi for being elsewhere during Saturday. You can't say that just because he wanted sex with her that he would have done it without consent, or killed. I'd leave that to the police.

 

[Ironside]

I saw mention of a rumour about a previous violent incident earlier in the thread. Can anyone pm me a link or a clue where to look to find this?

 

[sleuth-d-]

Sorry, messages showing that kayleigh was consenting or had consented to sexual activity

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

she has been in the presence these two men over the weekend and has ended up being killed. i would not be trusting any text messages coming from her phone during that time. moo.

let's hope that the police have more evidence than her text messages in relation to the level of charges they have brought against LH. maybe something SB has said independently that corroborates LH's story.

which leads me to... how can they make the distinction between rape or sexual activity charges, unless the two men were both present as witnesses for each other?

 

[ColourPurple]

So yesterday the consensus was LH was the baddy because he liked horror movies but now SB is the bad man and LH isn't totally evil anymore - I wonder if how their families reacted has influenced peoples thoughts?

I really think they were both involved in it but there is only enough evidence for SB to get a murder charge right now - forensics such as blood in his house perhaps. I think LH maybe "confessed" to meeting her and having consensual (not really as she is u16) touchy feely stuff but is denying any involvement in the murder. They'll probably both get more charges chucked at them once all the evidence becomes clearer.

Doesn't really make sense that LH would just be grooming a young girl but then out of the blue his close friend ends up killing her, does it?

I think the charges are what have influenced people. If LH later gets more charges then of course opinions and theories will change again .

 

[YidArmyRach]

Well, well, well....I'm eating my words. I really thought LH was the main perpetrator, it just shows you never to judge a book by its cover. Although he is still charged with inexplicable things tbh. Less than 5 hours ago it was LH seen as the bad guy and tables have swiftly turned to SB, they are BOTH BAD men in my book.

<modsnip>

How things can change tho, the most normal (going by social media) is infact the murderer. LH's charges sound as if he groomed her through FB (speaking to a minor, asking to meet up would, I assume, come under grooming) maybe brought her back to the house, consent was given by Kayleigh and on the Saturday something went horribly wrong when SB became involved. Surely if it was a set-up LH would also be done with murder also or along those lines.

I am shocked to say the least & await further evidence because I think there's a lot more to come. Things do not add up.

Going back to the Becky Watts case, SH was found guilty of manslaughter because it was believed that she was involved in a kidnap plot, so knew there was a chance Becky could come to harm .... so guilty even though it was believed she wasn't involved in the killing.

So, if this case is following the same lines, these charges would suggest that LH wasn't involved in any plan to kidnap or abduct Kayleigh, and his charges are purely relating to what he did alone.

I wonder if he bragged to SB about the Friday night (maybe after Kayleigh had just left) and SB went looking for her to see if she would agree to something with him?

 

[edgedweller]

I think the charges are what have influenced people. If LH later gets more charges then of course opinions and theories will change again .

I agree - and I am totally guilty of that. Hopefully more info will come out but I guess we're basically waiting for the trial now.

 

[ColourPurple]

Well, well, well....I'm eating my words. I really thought LH was the main perpetrator, it just shows you never to judge a book by its cover. Although he is still charged with inexplicable things tbh. Less than 5 hours ago it was LH seen as the bad guy and tables have swiftly turned to SB, they are BOTH BAD men in my book.

<modsnip>

How things can change tho, the most normal (going by social media) is infact the murderer. LH's charges sound as if he groomed her through FB (speaking to a minor, asking to meet up would, I assume, come under grooming) maybe brought her back to the house, consent was given by Kayleigh and on the Saturday something went horribly wrong when SB became involved. Surely if it was a set-up LH would also be done with murder also or along those lines.

I am shocked to say the least & await further evidence because I think there's a lot more to come. Things do not add up.

Poor Kayleigh, RIP sweet girl. Free from the evil of today.

It was also discussed that it could be the other way round, with LH possibly being the Chris Jefferies of the case.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Why not?

Maybe LH has a watertight alibi for being elsewhere during Saturday. You can't say that just because he wanted sex with her that he would have done it without consent, or killed. I'd leave that to the police.

... he was arrested at another location. maybe he had been there saturday onwards, which would work re: alibi.

 

[Edinlass]

Going back to the Becky Watts case, SH was found guilty of manslaughter because it was believed that she was involved in a kidnap plot, so knew there was a chance Becky could come to harm .... so guilty even though it was believed she wasn't involved in the killing.

So, if this case is following the same lines, these charges would suggest that LH wasn't involved in any plan to kidnap or abduct Kayleigh, and his charges are purely relating to what he did alone.

I wonder if he bragged to SB about the Friday night (maybe after Kayleigh had just left) and SB went looking for her to see if she would agree to something with him?

Yep, that would certainly make sense. If it was a telephone call to her parents Saturday morning that would coincide with being with LH the Friday night & leaving unharmed. How far from either SB's house or LH's house (has it been confirmed if LH was indeed living with SB?) is it to Kayleigh's home I wonder. Would she have to go through the park to get to it? SB could have followed her from leaving LH, attacked her, she drops her phone, she has lastnight clothes on her presumably in a bag as would have changed (these were found obviously (sorry) at his storage unit (we assume). So yeah, LH may not be involved with what happened to Kayleigh directly but I still blame him for grooming & having sexual relations with a minor nearly half his age, consented or not.

until further charges are brought I would say LH groomed (spoke to her on FB and arranged to meet her) and it was consented sexual 'activity' otherwise he would have been done with something that assisted in the offence at the very least. Look at the lack of evidence they had against SH, they still charged her with murder & the charges came months later as further evidence was uncovered. Bearing that in mind that may also be the case here in time, or not of course. Either way they have these two creeps where they belong.

I think it's difficult to get my head around because I had LH up there as the murderer, the crazy horror film fanatic, Friday the 13th kidnapper and now it's SB the scronny gardener who liked CCTV. I think I need my bed.

RIP sweet girl.

 

[ColourPurple]

Going back to the Becky Watts case, SH was found guilty of manslaughter because it was believed that she was involved in a kidnap plot, so knew there was a chance Becky could come to harm .... so guilty even though it was believed she wasn't involved in the killing.

So, if this case is following the same lines, these charges would suggest that LH wasn't involved in any plan to kidnap or abduct Kayleigh, and his charges are purely relating to what he did alone.

I wonder if he bragged to SB about the Friday night (maybe after Kayleigh had just left) and SB went looking for her to see if she would agree to something with him?

There's no "conspiracy to..." charges either so nothing to suggest it was something they planned together. I think it took a while to get full phone info in Becky's case so there's always the possibility of more charges, but for now it really does look like Kayleigh was the victim of two different crimes by two different men.

I wonder if she'd been given a few drinks or something and was in a more vulnerable state/position because of that. Making her an easier target for an opportunistic predator

 

[gia2]

I wonder if he bragged to SB about the Friday night (maybe after Kayleigh had just left) and SB went looking for her to see if she would agree to something with him?

Respectfully snipped.

This is the scenario that came to my mind too. It seems the most likely given what we know atm.

If SB and LH didn't get much female attention I could definitely see them discussing LH and Kayleigh meeting up before and after.

I've seen men with this kind of mentality all too often. When a woman is involved with their friend they believe that she should like him too. When she doesn't they get offended, feel wronged and get angry. Sometimes of course that leads to the worst.


Hopefully we'll have more information soon

 

[Ironside]

Yep, that would certainly make sense. If it was a telephone call to her parents Saturday morning that would coincide with being with LH the Friday night & leaving unharmed. How far from either SB's house or LH's house (has it been confirmed if LH was indeed living with SB?) is it to Kayleigh's home I wonder. Would she have to go through the park to get to it? SB could have followed her from leaving LH, attacked her, she drops her phone, she has lastnight clothes on her presumably in a bag as would have changed (these were found obviously (sorry) at his storage unit (we assume). So yeah, LH may not be involved with what happened to Kayleigh directly but I still blame him for grooming & having sexual relations with a minor nearly half his age, consented or not.

It is a five mile walk from Ibstock to Measham. I'd guess the public transport is infrequent. I really don't think she left LH's to walk home and then was attacked by his close friend who also - by sheer coincidence - happened to be interested in young girls.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

<modsnip>

I'm wondering if there might have been something more than friendship between the two men? Could SB have felt spurned by LH and taken revenge by killing Kayleigh? Just another something to throw into the mix!

 

[pappa rob]

she has been in the presence these two men over the weekend and has ended up being killed. i would not be trusting any text messages coming from her phone during that time. moo.

let's hope that the police have more evidence than her text messages in relation to the level of charges they have brought against LH. maybe something SB has said independently that corroborates LH's story.

which leads me to... how can they make the distinction between rape or sexual activity charges, unless the two men were both present as witnesses for each other?

I'm not sure what the age of consent is there, but if she was under that age it would be considered rape. In the States even if she's over the age of consent it's still rape if the age difference is over 4 years. I'm not familiar with the laws there so who knows.

 

[Edinlass]

It is a five mile walk from Ibstock to Measham. I'd guess the public transport is infrequent. I really don't think she left LH's to walk home and then was attacked by his close friend who also - by sheer coincidence - happened to be interested in young girls.

think we are all just struggling to piece this together tbh.

Upthread someone said maybe LH had been talking to Kayleigh through FB told SB and he pretended to be LH to lure her to him, this however wouldn't coincide with the family hearing from her the Saturday. I wish we knew if it was a text or a call..I keep banging on about that I know but it would make all the difference.

 

[sleuth-d-]

There's no "conspiracy to..." charges either so nothing to suggest it was something they planned together. I think it took a while to get full phone info in Becky's case so there's always the possibility of more charges, but for now it really does look like Kayleigh was the victim of two different crimes by two different men.

I wonder if she'd been given a few drinks or something and was in a more vulnerable state/position because of that. Making her an easier target for an opportunistic predator

bib
if there is no connection, it is an off-the-scale sequence of coincidental events... poor girl.

re: no conspiracy, would that mean one trial, or two? each man could be a witness in the other's case. possibly for defence, or prosecution... that would be very complicated for one trial.