ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - # 25

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persimmon said:
I recall researching the topic and discovering that there are incinerator plants near Leadore that receive some of the area's garbage.
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Okay, now I'm really hoping that VDK's insistence during that first interview that DeOrr wasn't on the mountain (and he said a lot of folks agreed with him, IIRC) was him trying to veer the investigation away from the mountain because he didn't want DeOrr found (meaning he is up there somewhere).... Spring, where are you???
 
erinp said:
You know what I wish? An interviewer that would ask questions like:

If he never went anywhere without his blanket, how come you're holding it and he's not attached to it?

If you were up there 1000 times more than the police, how come DK says they were up there every time he was up there?

What the hell happened in the hours before during and after his disappearance, please spell it out real slow, with complete sentences. Where were the four adults, where was DeOrr? Please draw a picture on this whiteboard as though you are in Judge Judy's courtroom
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cheers.gif

http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac118/ROBsessedBlog2/gifs/Non Rob Funnies/cheers.gif
 
Something that has always stuck out to me about the first interview is JM and VDK (sorry don't recall which one) saying "who would do this to us?" I always found that weird. Like whoever did it was someone they knew but this wasn't part of the plan. Hope that makes sense.

I wonder if there wasn't some sort of hand-off and it went wrong. Then the lie detector tests would come back less than truthful because they did know what initially happened to Deorr but aren't aware of his current whereabouts. Like a half-lie. Some truth so in their minds they can say it and feel like they're not lying, but in actuality they are indirectly responsible.

Then again, LE has said they are going back to search the campground area when it thaws. Which makes me wonder if JM did actually tell Klein she knows where the body is which would negate what I said above. This case is so confusing.

Another interesting thing I noted that again speaks to SB's competence and wisdom - he has neither confirmed nor denied Klein's findings. He has stated he wants to "keep the investigations separate." I thought this was genius. He is not saying they aren't working with Klein, or that Klein's findings aren't accurate, nor has he confirmed Klein's suspicions to match his own. He also hasn't denied anything Klein has said. He's distanced himself just enough without actually distancing himself. Very interesting and well played IMO.

Thanks for reading my rambling IMO thoughts. :silly:
 
haven71 said:
This talk about (loosely paraphrasing) how Deorr would help his Momma cheer up or feel better when she was irritated reminded me of something that always distressed me so much regarding a relative's child who was removed from her custody several times.

A quick recap...2006-2008 we had custody on and off of my late husband's SIL's son (his brother, the baby's father, had died of a drug overdose when the baby was around 7-8 months old). Anyway, she repeatedly failed to followed the plan outlined by the courts, designed by CPS and agreed upon with her) yet she would still try to contact him, often drunk, begging me to let her talk to him on the phone. Sometimes she left messages in the middle of the night on our answering machine where she was crying, almost incoherently, wanting to talk to and see her son (she also had 2 daughters by another man who was awarded full custody years before). Anyway, she would say stuff like, "I NEED him. Doesn't anyone understand how I NEED him? He is the only thing that makes me happy. He's the only one who can cheer me up and feel better." I remember being so outraged. She wanted her neglected toddler son back to fulfill her emotional needs, even though it was very unsafe for him to be with her??? She never mentioned what she did for him (because it was next to nothing), just why she NEEDED to have him back, he was responsible for her adult emotional needs??? Talk about messed up! It was never about what she could do for him or even that she wanted to straighten out her life to be a good mom. It was all about her emotional despondence.

Sickening, really.
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This sounds EXACTLY like my step-son's mother. She was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder years ago. When step-son was born Social Services got called in because the doctor feared for his safety. The only reason he wasn't taken away is because my now husband promised he would get a nanny to be with mom and son at all times when he was not at home.

She had that same relationship with her son. She NEEDED him. Once he was in her care, she didn't give a crap about him (dad had custody thank Goodness.) My step-son eventually told us how bad it was during his visits with her and how he was so afraid of upsetting her or hurting her feelings because she would get angry, "go off on him" or act suicidal "You don't love me... I should just die."

She ended up only having supervised visitation, then eventually he refused to visit and has not had contact with her in 3 years.

THAT is the one reason why the interview really bothered me. It sounds like little DeOrr had the same life my stepson had. Having to please his mother to survive. And I think her husband is in the same boat my now husband was in... Keep the peace, don't rock the boat. He knows what happened, but J is in charge. She determines what will happen and when. He is scared to cross her.
 
smacaluso said:
OK I have been reading here for years and never had any intention of posting anything. And yet, here I am....

<snipped for brevity>
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Welcome, smacaluso.

Great first post - I can't believe you have had the willpower to not post for 5 years!! I hope you continue to do so now you're officially out of lurkdom!

:welcome6:
 
MBK said:
Glad you brought this up. Not sure if it's just a "Vernalization" - ie, blowing smoke, bsing par extraordinaire, or if there's a nugget o' truth in there.
In any case, I would imagine that in some cases - - foreclosed properties, vacation homes with lots and lots of land, undeveloped private properties where the landowner bought cheap and is waiting for the right time to build - - these would be the perfect spot to hide a body, evidence, etc., because nobody goes there regularly.

For the "boundaries" of said no trespassing zones, I would assume that there's an assessor's office (maybe goes by a different name) , if not in Leadore, but somewhere in the area, where they could furnish tax maps (don't know the proper name for it).
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This thread has its own lexicon! Hmmm... Vernalization - yup works for me!

I am hoping and praying that soon soon soon there will be a break in this! Please someone in the family find out something and get it to the police! Please, please, please. I join all of you in hoping and praying that little DeOrr is found soon and brought home.
 
MBK said:
True, and he's from another generation.
However, the distanced way he is mentioned, albeit briefly, "a trusted a respected adult", is very strange. It might be the way that they would talk if, let's say, Deorr was in daycare, and "went missing" from there . . . It's a whole new way of throwing GGP under the bus, just a bit. I mean, not even mentioning that he is Deorr's great-grandfather . ..
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It sounds like rehearsed language to me. DK and JM discussed their story and when DK stated it in the interview, he used the language used during the conversation between him and JM.
JMO
 
MBK said:
No, but even the child-free have seen Weekend At Bernie's. Or read the news, watch Law & Order, etc. I would hope that a normal person would think it was pretty weird that the kid never "wakes up" all morning . . . when he had been "fast asleep" all the way there in the car (possible scenario). Now, let's say that he had sustained a head injury, or some sort of other injury . . not immediately fatal, but that led to death . . . a "normal" person might not be able to ascertain dangerous signs of lethargy, etc. I mean, if he was sitting quietly, holding a car, or barely able to hold onto it, when typically he would have been running around making "vroom vroom" noises with his car, IR and GGP wouldn't have known that . . .
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Unless they arrived at night when he was sleeping and IR woke early to go fishing and when he came back he was "napping".

I'm really not trying to find an excuse for IR but at this time LE seems to think he's not a suspect and I'm trying to think of a reason why. He said that he saw DeOrr at the campsite but I haven't heard him verify that he was alive.

Not to bring up an even more morbid thing but a while back there was a thing floating around Facebook about post-mortem photography in the Victorian era. They are photos that people took of their loved ones when they died. I'm not going to share a photo because they are disturbing but a simple Google search will bring them up. They are extremely realistic (keep in mind this was before photoshop) and honestly I don't think most could spot which person is deceased, especially if you weren't looking for it. Sure everyone on this page would probably spot somethings off but a lot of people don't follow missing children cases or think to look for something like that. Especially if they were thought to be sleeping and wrapped with a blanket or in a car seat.


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Jamaica Me Crazy said:
My fear is they disposed of him in a dumpster.
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Quite possible. And for at least the first few days, we were looking for a missing child, not a hidden child. I'm sure there was a dumpster at both the store and the bar. I don't know if they would keep a dumpster at the campground if it's a haul out site. I'd assume dumpsters would increase the risk of bringing in bears and I doubt they want to attract any bears to a place where people camp.

white rabbit said:
i'll change the subject.

was this covered? at 2:21 in the video, DK says the following (it's not paraphrased, I listened to it over and over and over...and over):

"I mean...right from the git-go I...I got a missing child...signs don't mean nothin'. No trespassing, I don't care. If it's your land, I'll be respectful but...I don't care".

any thoughts on this statement? because...well...???
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While Google Earth can't tell me if it's private property or not, there are quite a few areas near the campsite that look like they have been logged and plenty of irrigated fields in between the campsite and Leadore. There are several websites that show public land vs private land.

Butler said:
If the case was filed on the 6th and they left on the 9th, I doubt papers had been served yet. It generally takes a few days for the paperwork to even get to the SO for service and then deputies serve them as they find time between calls. While I agree a suit for close to $12,000 would be extremely stressful, I know I would freak out, we can't say for sure they knew about it before the trip.
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I'd bet they'd received more than a handful of phone calls and letters before that went to court.
 
Leader6518 said:
It sounds like rehearsed language to me. DK and JM discussed their story and when DK stated it in the interview, he used the language used during the conversation between him and JM.
JMO
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I'm sure their lawyer coached them.
 
Susjay said:
So who will defend statement analysis and its authenticity? Anyone? Leakage?

I just have an avid dislike for charlatans and anything they sell - And most imortantly make money from!
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I will - it is a method used by the FBI and LE and hats off to you if you think the FBI are wrong to use it :drumroll:
 
Susjay said:
So who will defend statement analysis and its authenticity? Anyone? Leakage?

I just have an avid dislike for charlatans and anything they sell - And most imortantly make money from!
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Agree. It's just some pseudo science people use for clicks or cash.
 
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