Bosma Murder Trial 04.07.16 - Day 32

[Just4TB]

You have a good memory Swedie ..... yes there were two different Bobcats , an older one hauled away from the farm plus another at the Maplegate yard with the caterpillar-type tracks instead of wheels.

There are references to (3) three Bobcats around the time of DM arrest.

(1) The Bobcat with tracks was removed from the Roseville Rd farm, not Maplegate...

Source: Toronto Sun - https://twitter.com/Shawn_Jeffords/status/336543413862273024/photo/1

(2) There was a second Bobcat recovered from the Hangar..

...and a Bobcat tractor found inside the Waterloo, Ont. hangar — both of which investigators believed were stolen, court heard.

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/bosma-stolen-vehicles-1.3519727

(3) A third Bobcat was at Maplegate...

...Another property that police searched over the weekend — a ranch-style house on Maple Gate Court in Etobicoke, co-owned by Millard and his now-deceased father, ...A Bobcat sat in weeds in the back yard.

Source: http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...et_up_at_millard_farm_in_waterloo_region.html

Bobcat Klepto... ??? MOO

 

[serenitynow123]

Thank you to the team of members who have been doing such an excellent job following and posting the trial tweets daily. I've been reading here today and have found that, even tho many of the tweets are similar to each other there is so much more detail available and it has greatly improved my understanding of the days testimony, as opposed to only reading CBC live blog, which is also excellent . Plus it's nice to know I'm reading along as part of a group, and not all by my lonesome

Not sure if this has already been linked to here. I found this excellent resource. A live updating collection of all of the Tim Bosma trial tweets from Adam Carter, Susan Clairmont and Molly Hayes that is a great index/companion to the info in this forum. It's easy to scroll through and each journalists tweets can be isolated and scrolled through separately.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...bQlyw__2QSDhYkGxMU/pubhtml?gid=0&single=false

 

[Just4TB]

I would like to know how MH knew MS was involved in that. He had nothing to do with any of that escapade. What else did DM tell him that night? He seemed pretty adamant that MS was not to get hold of that toolbox? What did MH tell LE about the farm and how would he have known anything about it? DM had already told LE he lived there. It sounds like DM gave him more instructions than hold onto the toolbox.

Excellent point!!! :goodpost:

 

[Errrr]

I wonder if DMs friends ever got blamed for things he did as a kid? Adults may have blamed his dirty little friends because he was a golden boy who would not do such things. He could have learned that as long as he kept dirty little friends he would never get blamed. He paints himself as a naive, trusting guy when that is what his friends are. He seems to be the opposite.
I remember as kids when we did something clever my rich cousins got the credit but when we did anything wrong it was the poorer cousins got blamed.

 

[brightii]

It's looking to me like any number of DM's friends could have been selected by DM to accompany him on the test drives. I wonder why it was MS? None of the "entourage" were squeaky clean characters and many were involved in previous thefts, as was MS, but what about MS made him the ideal candidate for TB's truck theft?

I thought it weird all along that DM seemed so socially acceptable by all appearances and yet he hung around with MS who is not, IMO. Now we find out that so many of DM's associates were indeed very shady, themselves willing participants in crimes and drugs, and now MS doesn't seem to stand out as starkly among this cast of characters, IMO.

It's curious how all these friends describe MS as shady, when from my vantage point so are they! IMO none of those we have heard from so far, with the exception of SH and JV, had any cause to judge MS as so different from themselves. One is no better than the other, IMO. The only real difference between them all IMO is that two of the gang are accused now of a heinous murder. DM, IMO, could have chosen any one of them as his accomplice and by the sounds of their loyalty and availability to him they might have joined him on short notice. Hopefully any remorse the others are feeling these days, those who got off scott-free for their own shady behaviour, will keep their close call fresh in their minds and memories, lest they ever be tempted again to be involved with the likes of a DM, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[Abitcountry]

I think I would have a small bit of sympathy for Matt Hagerman tonight if he had just said something as simple as young Brendan Daly when he answered some question proudly saying 'yes sir, I've turned my life around 100%'. No crying about the past, he just worked all this time to create a new present ....and that speaks volumes to me.

As far as Hagerman.....No one likes to see a young guy cry....seems so vulnerable when that happens....But what sticks in my head are all the times when he and his accomplices pulled off their capers stealing stuff and went back to party at the hangar !!!
As long as everything was going their way, they were a cocky bunch I am sure and on their way to bigger and better things. How many times did they thumb their noses at police, legitimate property owners and clean living people at the time they were having their heyday....they even drove under the influence....not a whole lot of respect for anyone or anything.

These guys were not the young offenders at the time. That law was initially intended .....designed especially for youth and appropriately accounting for their young age and for their teenage impulsiveness and exuberance. Hagerman and the others were men not children when they went about thieving. If they did not know better then they should have.....ignorance of the law is no excuse. And after living in reasonably civilized society for 20 years or so, surely they had lived enough to sort out right from wrong. But they each chose not to honour the law or the social sanctions of polite society. Individually they chose to break the law and together they celebrated their choices and would have continued to do so until that week in May 2013 that made them halt in their tracks.

I will in time come to a point where I will feel compassion for MH but it is not today. I will give him a break but it is not today.
I do hope for the best him because I think he has a lot to learn and he has not made his own journey an easy one all because of his own poor choices. I have seen what he was ......and that makes me angry. I saw how he was today as he faced the officers of the court and the people in attendance.....and I was not impressed. I am looking forward to his future and the time when he has redeemed himself and shown the people who know him that they have not misplaced their hope and confidence in him.....and then I will celebrate his new life too. But not yet.

 

[Satchie]

I think you're on to something there. Millard may have wanted the gun back at a later date and felt it was safe with MH.

So, if AM and MH wanted to just ditch the tool box and backpack why the drive to Oakville to give it to Smich. Why wouldn't they just throw them in a dumpster or the lake?

I agree, at that point I think all DM knew was that AJ had confirmed the truck in the hangar was Bosma's. He didn't know whether AJ would report him, all he knew from SS was that AJ was thinking about it. He didn't know about the identification of the ambition tattoo, and it had never occurred to him that his own phone could be linked physically to the burner phone.

So I don't think at that stage he was willing to get rid of his prized possessions permanently. He just wanted them to be somewhere safe but where he still had control over them.

It seems it was AM who told MH the stuff had to get into Smich's hands. Smich, of course, couldn't drive, so he couldn't come from Oakville.

It sounds like, when MH heard that DM was arrested for forcible confinement of a missing man, he did dump the toolbox, in a utility stairwell.

 

[Abitcountry]

I think you're on to something there. Millard may have wanted the gun back at a later date and felt it was safe with MH.

So, if AM and MH wanted to just ditch the tool box and backpack why the drive to Oakville to give it to Smich. Why wouldn't they just throw them in a dumpster or the lake?

I think they drove to Oakville with one thought in there heads....namely, 'DM is in jail and Smich is the guy that was with him....so he can deal with this and figure out what the h... to do with it.'
As they got closer and closer, it likely came up that maybe Smich might be the next to go to jail and they wanted to be nowhere near Smich or the backpack or toolbox....they ditched as soon as they found a spot and told/texted Smich to go collect it for himself.

IMO

 

[Abitcountry]

Gees.....just looked at the clock ( almost wrote 'glock') . That's when you know it's time for bed.

Goodnight all.......fftobed:

 

[Claroon]

I think I would have a small bit of sympathy for Matt Hagerman tonight if he had just said something as simple as young Brendan Daly when he answered some question proudly saying 'yes sir, I've turned my life around 100%'. No crying about the past, he just worked all this time to create a new present ....and that speaks volumes to me.

As far as Hagerman.....No one likes to see a young guy cry....seems so vulnerable when that happens....But what sticks in my head are all the times when he and his accomplices pulled off their capers stealing stuff and went back to party at the hangar !!!
As long as everything was going their way, they were a cocky bunch I am sure and on their way to bigger and better things. How many times did they thumb their noses at police, legitimate property owners and clean living people at the time they were having their heyday....they even drove under the influence....not a whole lot of respect for anyone or anything.

These guys were not the young offenders at the time. That law was initially intended .....designed especially for youth and appropriately accounting for their young age and for their teenage impulsiveness and exuberance. Hagerman and the others were men not children when they went about thieving. If they did not know better then they should have.....ignorance of the law is no excuse. And after living in reasonably civilized society for 20 years or so, surely they had lived enough to sort out right from wrong. But they each chose not to honour the law or the social sanctions of polite society. Individually they chose to break the law and together they celebrated their choices and would have continued to do so until that week in May 2013 that made them halt in their tracks.

I will in time come to a point where I will feel compassion for MH but it is not today. I will give him a break but it is not today.
I do hope for the best him because I think he has a lot to learn and he has not made his own journey an easy one all because of his own poor choices. I have seen what he was ......and that makes me angry. I saw how he was today as he faced the officers of the court and the people in attendance.....and I was not impressed. I am looking forward to his future and the time when he has redeemed himself and shown the people who know him that they have not misplaced their hope and confidence in him.....and then I will celebrate his new life too. But not yet.

And what a writer you are Abit! Very well said.

 

[Claroon]

Do you actually believe that Millard fully intended that the toolbox and gun should be ultimately delivered to Smich?

We have nothing to say what the conversation between Millard and Hagerman was when the toolbox was delivered ...but I don't think it involved instructions to get the toolbox back to Smich. If Millard wanted it back in Smich's possession, then why not deliver it to Smich?

It seems to me that it was strictly the conversation between Hagerman and Michalski that resulted in toolbox and backpack being dumped on Smich. Millard was in jail by this time....they wanted to put distance between his issues and themselves and just wanted to ditch everything they had been given. They did not even want to get to close to Smich either and so it all got dumped in the stair well.

I think Millard's intention was to kept the gun as close to him but not on him for obvious reasons..... and if he could have controlled the direction of things once the heat was on, then he would have pulled it all out to frame Smich in a heart beat

Here's what I think. MS contacted AM to find out where the gun ended up because he now needed money and thought he could sell it and some drugs to cover the lawyer costs. Makes sense that this would = toolbox plus backpack.

"Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC Apr 6 Dungey then says Smich was trying to sell the gun to or drugs to get cash to retain a lawyer. "

Reply Retweet 1
Like 1
More

 

[Arnie M]

There are references to (3) three Bobcats around the time of DM arrest.

(1) The Bobcat with tracks was removed from the Roseville Rd farm, not Maplegate...

Source: Toronto Sun - https://twitter.com/Shawn_Jeffords/status/336543413862273024/photo/1

(2) There was a second Bobcat recovered from the Hangar..

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/bosma-stolen-vehicles-1.3519727

(3) A third Bobcat was at Maplegate...

Source: http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...et_up_at_millard_farm_in_waterloo_region.html

Bobcat Klepto... ??? MOO

Here is one at Maplegate yard.

 

[brightii]

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/16/tim-bosmas-murder-may-have-been-thrill-kill-source

I just re-read this article that mentions the tv show, The Following in context to DM and company. And tonight I read it with an admittedly tired pair of eyes but also with a fresh perspective after learning much more this week from the trial.

Now my eyes are bloodshot and I'm weary. Time for 40 winks zzzzzzzzz. G'nite all.

All MOO.

 

[Claroon]

Excellent point!!! :goodpost:

Not sure if there is proof of DM being adamant that MS was not to get hold of it. Is there a reference? MH lived closed to DM so was easier to drop it off.

In my opinion, MS called/texted AM to get the gun and some weed because now he'd need money for a lawyer due to DM's dragging him in.
"Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC Apr 6 Dungey then says Smich was trying to sell the gun to or drugs to get cash to retain a lawyer. #TimBosma #Bosma"

That is how AM knew MS was with DM (if he didn't know some other way, like being there too IMO).

AM called MH about the item. When he said DM would want it to go to MS, I think he might have been saying, if DM knew MS was in trouble, he would give him the backpack and toolbox if he thought it would help him. AM & MH got together and had lots of time to talk during their drive from Etobicoke to Oakville. Maybe came up with scenarios pointing to the farm. Anyhow, that is how MH got filled in on MS being involved. IMO.

 

[Claroon]

So do you think Mark contacted Andrew to bring him the toolbox and bag? or where is AM getting this info that DM wanted it delivered to MS? by the sounds of it, MS didnt want it either - he had no clue what to do with it. How about this idea MOO - these two (AM and MH) figured out what was in the toolbox and decided among themselves that they didn't want anything to do with it so they took it upon themselves to deliver it to Oakville? This makes sense to me? But who knows .... what are your thoughts?

My thought is MS texted AM as to the whereabouts of the toolbox because now he wanted to try to sell it. And also requested weed to sell. To pay for lawyers.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC Apr 6
Dungey then says Smich was trying to sell the gun to or drugs to get cash to retain a lawyer. #TimBosma #Bosma

 

[Sphinx]

I agree. Someone some day will retaliate. If DJ and ms get life, that us only 25 years max.

Unless they are declared dangerous offenders, then life means life, and they do not get out.

 

[Sillybilly]

This thread is now closed.

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